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  Nan-in, a Japanese master during the Meiji era (1868-1912), received a university professor who came to inquire about Zen. Nan-in served tea. He poured his visitor's cup full, and then kept on pouring. The professor watched the overflow... continue...

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→→→→ vertical line TOPIC: ZEN AND DEPRESSION
vertical line Posted on Feb.20.2007 @ 02:38AM EDT by jayenbee
I am looking into some of the principles of Zen Meditation as a way to cope with my chronic depression without the support of medication. I would be grateful for any insight to useful resources/books/CDs etc. that people may think will help me in this.

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Reply from ______
Feb.20.2007
06:38AM EDT 
vertical line Your experience with depression can be a gift to others. You didn't choose depression - you can blame yourself for it, ignore it, reject it, refuse it and hate it or you can listen to your depression in meditation and accept it.
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Reply from stephen
Feb.20.2007
08:21AM EDT 
Email stephen
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http://www.wildmind.org/meditation/depression/index.html

http://www.kundaliniyoga.org/kyt17.html

If sadness is your suffering then happiness is on the way. MU

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Reply from whatzen
Feb.20.2007
11:45AM EDT 
Email whatzen
vertical line Remember, you are not your chronic depression.
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Reply from Woodsman
Feb.20.2007
02:52PM EDT 
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vertical line Completely accept your depression, and take it easy on the meditation. Don't force the river. Allow compassion for yourself to be your guide.

'Zen Path Through Depression',  Philip Martin.
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Reply from 77 zen ror
Feb.20.2007
06:48PM EDT 
Email 77 zen ror
vertical line Quote: "Completely accept your depression, and take it easy on the meditation. Don't force the river. Allow compassion for yourself to be your guide.

'Zen Path Through Depression',  Philip Martin.
"
......... Sit with it. Then let it go. You got to know of it be for you can let go of it. This will make you a stroner person
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Reply from shayne
Feb.21.2007
07:04PM EDT 
Email shayne
vertical line if you sit and say count your breaths then you wont have time to listen to negative talk from your mind about depression. also meditation helps with this. depression is also a feeling. once you become unattached to this feeling it will pass.
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Reply from ______
Feb.22.2007
06:17AM EDT 
vertical line Living and sitting in the question isn't "listening to negative talk from your mind 'about' depression".
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Reply from ______
Feb.22.2007
06:20AM EDT 
vertical line The question of depression, that is.
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 68932
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Reply from bodhi_zen
Feb.23.2007
06:46AM EDT 
Email bodhi_zen
vertical line jot down things that make get deppressed. the cause of it. and tear the paper into peaces. and tell urself that u are not feeling bad, guilty about ur past. this helps.
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Reply from LeonBasin
Sep.21.2010
05:18AM EDT 
Email LeonBasin
vertical line Have to bump this!
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Reply from ______
Sep.21.2010
08:19AM EDT 
vertical line Nice technique.
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Reply from ______
Sep.21.2010
08:21AM EDT 
vertical line This is: meditation.
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Reply from esoteric
Sep.21.2010
10:35AM EDT 
vertical line Backronyms are cool.
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Reply from andy_lon
Sep.22.2010
10:09AM EDT 
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Replace anxiety with depression.

"We intrinsically have the countenance of the person of suchness and so need not be anxious about the essence of suchness. Because anxiety is itself the essence of suchness, it is not anxiety." Dogen

http://mro.org/zmm/teachings/myotai/myotai20.php

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Reply from ______
Sep.22.2010
11:24AM EDT 
vertical line We have not been free of disease hitherto; we have had the Buddha bug and the patriarch bug. Intellectual excluding now adds to the disease and augments the disease. The very moment itself of eliminating is inevitably disturbance. They are simultaneous and are beyond simultaneousness. Disturbance always includes the fact of trying to eliminate them.

~ Dogen
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Reply from so_teh
Sep.22.2010
09:09PM EDT 
Email so_teh
vertical line /facePalm
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Reply from esoteric
Sep.22.2010
10:45PM EDT 
vertical line Bite me. It's fun.
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Reply from nicolelord
May.13.2011
05:11AM EDT 
Email nicolelord
vertical line My friend is also taking medication for depression. But I heard first time...what is ZEN medication?
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Reply from justin
May.13.2011
07:58AM EDT 
Email justin
vertical line a typo,

should mean meditation which could be argued is a unsubstantial medication
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Reply from Joe Chip
May.13.2011
08:09AM EDT 
vertical line Neediation.
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Reply from sakura
May.14.2011
10:54PM EDT 
vertical line Depression is a choice, since it is created in the mind you do have control over it. I don't believe in any of the doctor-prescribed medications. Only you can control your state of mind.
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Reply from florence
May.15.2011
12:51AM EDT 
vertical line I've never heard of depression in third world countries no matter how destitute most of their people are. In fact, you always see them smiling and there's always hope in their eyes. I guess depression is a rich man's disease, another term for boredom.
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Reply from starduster
May.15.2011
06:38AM EDT 
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Quote: "Depression is a choice, since it is created in the mind you do have control over it. I don't believe in any of the doctor-prescribed medications. Only you can control your state of mind. "
.........

There are things you can do, but probably still hurdles to leap over.

Self Hypnosis can be a valuable tool.  Once you know how to 'count yourself down', you can do it just about any time anywhere.

I finally talked to my brother about the many times he had tried to kill me as a baby, and how he made my life miserable with his petty tortures long after that.  I asked him how he felt about that.  He said he no remorse whatsoever, older siblings do that kind of thing, it was just the way it was back then.

I thought about that.  I remembered seeing an interview with a Nazi SS Officer, talking about the Holocaust, who said, *You had to be zere. Its just de vay it vas back zen*.

I decided that my brother, having no remorse for countless felonies, is no less a sociopath than a Nazi, and I dont want anything more to do with him.  Since then I have been estranged from him and his immediate family, and I have not been experiencing depression anymore. 

Whenever it arises, I just recall that I have settled that matter and put it behind me.

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Reply from justin
May.15.2011
01:02PM EDT 
Email justin
vertical line no! people are responsible for their choices, the name of the organisation doesnt matter, nazi, human race, soldier, this is one of the reasons humanity is where it is now. 'he did it i can too, if i dont do it i lose my job, it was him or me'

glad u settled with u bro though
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Reply from starduster
May.16.2011
04:17AM EDT 
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Quote: "no! people are responsible for their choices, the name of the organisation doesnt matter, nazi, human race, soldier, this is one of the reasons humanity is where it is now. 'he did it i can too, if i dont do it i lose my job, it was him or me'

glad u settled with u bro though
"
.........

All you can do is your best.

Life is mostly a process of *muddling through*.

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Reply from Jeffrey
May.16.2011
04:22AM EDT 
vertical line Yeah its a choice.  Like if I will walk around with an amputated limb because I chose to amputate it.  Who would choose depression?  Ignoramus.
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Reply from Jeffrey
May.16.2011
04:25AM EDT 
vertical line Thats like saying people with diabetes choose diabetes and that they shouldn't take insulin.  Ignorant.
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Reply from Jeffrey
May.16.2011
04:26AM EDT 
vertical line Mind and body interpenetrate.  Thinking they are two leads to a self view.  (additional uneccesary) Suffering.
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Reply from justin
May.16.2011
04:34AM EDT 
Email justin
vertical line diabetes has a lot to do with choice, it is a matter of diet and exercise. Accept it or not up to u. (at least before you become diabetic)

but this is not the point i make, the point i make is that you allways have a choice to be a Nazi or a criminal or a murderer these are decisions (or decisions not to make the decision) just to accept and do what you are told.

These decisions are do i want to take life? do i have regard for life? do i respect others perspective on posessions do i steal them?

just my opinion anyway i not asking you to understand.

you either make the decisions yourself or allow others to make them for you up to each person.

as my mother allways said if i told you to jump of a cliff would you? i hope this helps

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Reply from justin
May.16.2011
04:37AM EDT 
Email justin
vertical line i wasnt saying depression is a choice you have misunderstood, it is this media 
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Reply from justin
May.16.2011
04:39AM EDT 
Email justin
vertical line i was directly replying to stardusters comment bout his brother, 
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Reply from Joe Chip
May.16.2011
06:21AM EDT 
vertical line In Type 1 Diabetes, the body destroys the insulin-producing beta cells in the pancreas. When your body destroys the good stuff, it has what is called an autoimmune disease. Diabetes Type 1 is known as an autoimmune disease.
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Reply from Joe Chip
May.16.2011
07:04AM EDT 
vertical line Poverty is not a cure for depression in so-called third world countries.
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Reply from starduster
May.16.2011
08:17AM EDT 
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Quote: "i was directly replying to stardusters comment bout his brother,  "
.........

Obviously, unresolved issues need to be resolved so you can move on.

I only wish I had done it sooner, but I waited until both parents were dead and their affairs were settled.  They always wanted us to get along.

(Years before, at 14, when he was 16, I finally *called him out* to fight in the backyard.  Suffice it to say that he ran away waving his arms in the air like a little girl.  I nearly killed him for a change.  We still fought verbally after that, but he never tried to get physical with me again.)

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Reply from justin
May.16.2011
12:12PM EDT 
Email justin
vertical line blessed are the cheese makers for they shall inherit the earth
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Reply from Joe Chip
May.16.2011
01:26PM EDT 
vertical line Four year old cheddar, cave aged.
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Reply from nibble
May.16.2011
08:53PM EDT 
vertical line changing external circumstances might be hard, key is to choose how you will relate to it. Self acceptance are words pointing in a direction.

How you feel abouth youreself is a key. If one is doing the best of a situation, and beeing damn near proud of oneself, then one have a good self feeling. With this good self feeling, the world seems good, even thou everything is excatly as before really.

Feeling bad, down, at least tell you`re friend. (That you want to be alone because youre depressed). I`ts amazing how persistent they can be in invading ones privacy when they understand that you do not dislike them, but youreself.

That was my 5 nickles, namaste
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Reply from Woodsman
May.16.2011
11:09PM EDT 
Email Woodsman
vertical line 'Going To Pieces Without Falling Apart", by Mark Epstein
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Reply from Joe Chip
May.17.2011
04:13PM EDT 
vertical line Tree fells man.
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Reply from nicolelord
May.18.2011
06:22AM EDT 
Email nicolelord
vertical line I found lot of replays here. I have question about medication. suppose I am taking antidepressants and I am feeling better, so my question is should I continue with the same antidepressants without reffering Doctor?
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Reply from Joe Chip
May.18.2011
06:24AM EDT 
vertical line Address your questions to your doctor.
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Reply from starduster
May.22.2011
06:26AM EDT 
vertical line

I was really feeling bad after my second divorce in 1981.  Also had a lot of other stuff going on at the same time.

Went to the self-help section of the bookstore and read all kinds of stuff.  I recall taking a number of psychological tests that were in the books, for self inventory.

In particular I recall taking a Stree Index test.  300 was critical, and I scored a 450. Yikes.  But it put me on track to solve my own problems.

Okay, meds if you need them.  But also study and learn about your own condition so you can help yourself too.

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Reply from nicolelord
May.30.2011
01:30AM EDT 
Email nicolelord
vertical line I found my self in depression since last 2 weeks. I don't know why..I am not feelink well. In company also I can't concentrate on y works..
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Reply from starduster
May.30.2011
04:41AM EDT 
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Quote: "I found my self in depression since last 2 weeks. I don't know why..I am not feelink well. In company also I can't concentrate on y works.. "
.........

In meditation, the only thing you need to be able to concentrate on is your breathing.

It helps to take a *time out* in order to remain focused on the rest of your life.  Even if only for a minute or two at a time. 

Any time you can pause, close your eyes, and feel your breath entering and exiting your body, slowly.

Meditation is not another demand on you.  Dont let it be one.  Scheduling it, rearranging your schedule for it, etc, counternands it purpose, which is simply to be able to *stop*.

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Reply from shayne
May.30.2011
06:41AM EDT 
Email shayne
vertical line Quote: "

Quote: "I found my self in depression since last 2 weeks. I don't know why..I am not feelink well. In company also I can't concentrate on y works.. "
.........

In meditation, the only thing you need to be able to concentrate on is your breathing.

It helps to take a *time out* in order to remain focused on the rest of your life.  Even if only for a minute or two at a time. 

Any time you can pause, close your eyes, and feel your breath entering and exiting your body, slowly.

Meditation is not another demand on you.  Dont let it be one.  Scheduling it, rearranging your schedule for it, etc, counternands it purpose, which is simply to be able to *stop*.

"
.........

"
.........

pretty much. very good don. i like this.

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Reply from starduster
May.31.2011
05:03AM EDT 
vertical line Quote: "Quote: "

Quote: "I found my self in depression since last 2 weeks. I don't know why..I am not feelink well. In company also I can't concentrate on y works.. "
.........

In meditation, the only thing you need to be able to concentrate on is your breathing.

It helps to take a *time out* in order to remain focused on the rest of your life.  Even if only for a minute or two at a time. 

Any time you can pause, close your eyes, and feel your breath entering and exiting your body, slowly.

Meditation is not another demand on you.  Dont let it be one.  Scheduling it, rearranging your schedule for it, etc, counternands it purpose, which is simply to be able to *stop*.

"
.........

"
.........

pretty much. very good don. i like this.

"
.........

"
.........

A number of people were surprised at how quickly I learned to snow ski.  I was on my way to the top of the mountain in less than an hour.

While practicing on the Bunny Slopes down below I knew exactly what to learn first:  How to Stop !! 

It helped that I already had experience ice skating.  The edge controls are the same.  Skiiing is just like skating in clown shoes.

Learning how to stop worked.  If I got going too fast I just stopped, or partially stopped until I slowed down enough to go again.  When in doubt, just stop.

And meditation works that way in life too.  If it seems that life is going too fast, or is overwhelming in some way, take a moment, a pause, close your eyes, breathe slow and easy, and feel your breaths enter and exit your body slow and easy, and then pick up where you left off with a renewed outlook.

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Reply from Joe Chip
May.31.2011
07:03AM EDT 
vertical line Considering depression - generalisations don't help.
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Reply from starduster
Jun.01.2011
06:17AM EDT 
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Im not sure that the physical effects of depression are more than the overall affects of depression.

Depression causes depression, in a clinical sense.

Ive been suicidal since the age of three.  Depressed virtually my whole life.  Most kids three years old dont even know about death, let alone covet it.  But when someone tries to kill you everyday for an extended period of time, you learn about death.

Since I finally made the decision to estrange my brother, the principal factor in my depression, it has gone away.  I wish Id known that earlier.  Still I had to wait until the rest of the family, mom and dad and the grandparents, uncles and aunts, had passed away.  Now that they are all gone, so is he.

I have no family except for a couple of cousins in Canada that I see about every 20 years, but Im better off alone.  I'm no longer depressed, or suicidal. 

Im finally fine with things as it is.

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Reply from Joe Chip
Jun.01.2011
07:18AM EDT 
vertical line You never stop talking about it.
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Reply from starduster
Jun.01.2011
08:36AM EDT 
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Quote: "You never stop talking about it. "
.........

If I ever really do get over it I will let you know.

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Reply from Joe Chip
Jun.01.2011
10:51AM EDT 
vertical line You can't write, so you can't stop talking. It's your ting as it is.
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Reply from nicolelord
Jun.08.2011
07:56AM EDT 
Email nicolelord
vertical line yaaa..my sad ness is now decreasing...I hope it will end soon.

depression
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Reply from starduster
Jun.08.2011
03:56PM EDT 
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Quote: "yaaa..my sad ness is now decreasing...I hope it will end soon.

depression
"
.........

I remember as a little boy repeating to myself over and over, *They can make me do anything, but they cant make me care.*

If you cant find happiness within yourself  you may find that not-feeling is the next best thing.  Comfortably numb.

If you dont like what you are thinking and feeling, stop thinking and feeling.

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Reply from starduster
Jun.09.2011
12:21AM EDT 
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Quote: "yaaa..my sad ness is now decreasing...I hope it will end soon.

depression
"
.........

Dont care.  Write is all off.  Just dont care.

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Reply from starduster
Jun.09.2011
12:27AM EDT 
vertical line Quote: "

Quote: "yaaa..my sad ness is now decreasing...I hope it will end soon.

depression
"
.........

Dont care.  Write is all off.  Just dont care.

"
.........

"
.........

No one, and nothing, can hurt you unless you care.  Thats why I say to write it all off, including yourself, and just dont care.  Then even if someone points a shotgun into the middle of your chest and pulls the trigger they cant hurt you. 

Nothing can hurt you, unless you let it.

Still, sometimes you may let it.  But that is your choice.

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Reply from Joe Chip
Jun.09.2011
08:24AM EDT 
vertical line I care and you can't hurt me.
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Reply from starduster
Jun.10.2011
08:46PM EDT 
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Quote: "I care and you can't hurt me."
.........

I have no desire to harm anyone.

Even those who have harmed me.

Of course, that doesnt mean I have to

embrace them either.

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Reply from Joe Chip
Jun.10.2011
09:40PM EDT 
vertical line You digress.
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