history principles practice stories, books, media discussion forum organizations resources
zenguide.com logo
 
Friday Oct 31 2014 03:46AM ET
º login º register º email º guestbook º printer friendly
grey dot
  One day, a monk traveled into the mountain where Gensha Shibi resided
to see the Zen master and study Zen with him. The monk said to Gensha:
-I am a new comer, please be kind to tell me where I can enter the Zen gate.
Gensha... continue...

z
.
e
.
n
menu left history menu spacer principles menu spacer practice menu spacer zen media menu spacer discussion forum menu spacer organization directory menu spacer resources  
login
  DISCUSSION FORUM
» topic list   » start a new topic   » my tracked topics   » view topic
grey dot

horizontal line
→→→→ vertical line TOPIC: DREAM YOGA/ SLEEP PRACTICE/ LUCID DREAMING.
vertical line Posted on Feb.22.2007 @ 05:57AM EDT by HarryB
Dear all,

Its generally agreed that dream / sleep practice is extremely productive because we are dealing directly with the manifestations of our own minds 'on their own ground' so to speak, some people realise it quite naturally as a result of their meditation and mindfulness practices . Dream practices are probably most developed in Tibet, but I've heard several Zen references to sleep practice where attention is held through the processes of falling asleep (Chinese Chan masters talk of 'the dreamless sleep', that state where the sleeper has realised that everthing is a manifestation of his/her own mind, so he/she realizes and spontaneously 'liberates' the dream as a mere passing thought not to be engaged with) . I think the techniques are generally considered a bit esoteric, especially the instructions for what one does when one has 'seized the dream' and has the concious choice to do things with the unhindered 'dream body' (i.e. one may use the dream body to travel to 'other realms' to receive special teachings) but certainly one recommendation that makes sense is that, once the dreamer has become lucid he or she recognises the dream  purely as a manifestation of their own mind, he or she then dissolves the dream and rests/meditates in the pure light of their mind... its very interesting and rewarding practice... (or you might prefer to  star in your own episode of The Dukes of Hazard or have tantric sex with an alien... see 'new-age' content on lucid dream sites :-o!!!

As I said, the Buddhist sources for techniques to induce dream awareness have been pretty esoteric particularly in Tibet where dream practice is closely associated with the bardo teachings which concern what we can do to obtain liberation at the time of death (there are many parallels between the process of falling asleep and death as is represented in many world cultures) , but the western 'lucid dreamer' movement teaches much the same stuff without buddhist symbolism and other garb. This from:     http://ld4all.com/guide.html

 
Wake Induced Lucid Dream

When using the WILD technique, you go from being awake, directly into the dreaming state. That's why it is called Wake Induced Lucid Dream

The trick is to recognize the hypnagogic state and stay conscious while it develops in dream images. You will then be able to literaly step into your own dream world.

The hypnagogic state occurs on the border between waking and sleeping. It can be anything from colored dots to flashes of color or complete images. As you keep paying attention to it they will develop into more detailed images and if you stay aware you will find yourself inside your dream.

WILD in 3 easy steps
The below steps are interwoven. I separated them to make the process clearer.

1 - Relax
The hypnagogic stage occurs when you are relaxed. So first you do a relaxation exersise.

Feel yourself breathing in and out. Breathe in and tense the muscles of your feet. Breathe out and relax the muscles of your feet. Breathe in and tense the muscles in your lower legs. Breathe out and relax them again. Go on until you have come to your head.

2 - Be aware
The next step is staying conscious, and not drifting off. Ways to do that are:

  • Counting 1 - I'm dreaming, 2 - I'm dreaming, 3 - I'm dreaming, etc.
  • Paying attention to yourself breathing, while counting every breath in and out.
  • Imagining yourself walking down stairs, counting every step.
  • A combination of all of the above.

3 - Enter your dream
If you succeed in staying aware your hypnagogic images will become clearer. You will suddenly have a feeling you can now step into your dream. This is very hard to describe. The word that comes close is "knowingness"

With this knowingness you can grab an object you see before you or zoom in on an image. This will pull you into the dream.

Keep practising
The hardest thing is to stay aware and not drifting off to sleep. If you don't succeed, keep trying. WILD can take some time to master but it is worth it.

Experienced WILDers can reach this state without the counting - they just relax, keep paying attention to the hypnagogic images and then consciously enter the dreaming state.




WILD is one of the most discussed techniques on the forum. Check out the First steps to WILD topic.

A WILD example from me
"When falling asleep I see images, and one of them is a rock. I am still conscious and decide to try and pick up the rock and thus end up in the dream scene. It works, I find myself inside the scene, holding the rock in my hand."

WILD and OOBE
The border between WILD and OOBE can be very thin. Instead of zooming into your dream, you can feel yourself rolling out of bed or just stand up and find yourself beside your bed, in your room, but you don't see yourself sleeping in bed.


There are a number of other techniques on this, and other, sites.

Regards,


Harry.
Go to Latest Reply   Reply to this Topic
horizontal line
 
horizontal line
Reply from ______
Feb.22.2007
06:26AM EDT 
vertical line Three ways of living life: walking on the water, swimming in the water, to be drowned.
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 68933
horizontal line
 
horizontal line
Reply from HarryB
Feb.22.2007
06:35AM EDT 
vertical line Bridges, passively floating on it, drinking it, messing around in boats, Monnet, bringing a horse to it ...etc. etc. etc. etc....

Regards,

Harry.
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 68935
horizontal line
 
horizontal line
Reply from ______
Feb.22.2007
06:40AM EDT 
vertical line Attachment to the material world is what drowns. Going through life is as swimming. Walking on the water is to be in the world but not of it.
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 68936
horizontal line
 
horizontal line
Reply from HarryB
Feb.22.2007
06:41AM EDT 
vertical line What about wetting the bed?

Regards,

Harry.
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 68937
horizontal line
 
horizontal line
Reply from ______
Feb.22.2007
06:42AM EDT 
vertical line What about wetting the bed?
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 68938
horizontal line
 
horizontal line
Reply from HarryB
Feb.22.2007
06:49AM EDT 
vertical line Isn't it great... for a while.

I liken it to the warmth of a Spring morning, with the onset of the bitter chill of winter inherent.

As a kid, I once woke up in our front garden, middle of the night, having a wee wee. I liken this to being a quantity surveyor in a dead end job with two horrible kids who is about to be asked to give a surprise after dinner speech that to his peers and superiors that he has not prepared for.

Regards,

Harry


vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 68940
horizontal line
 
horizontal line
Reply from ______
Feb.22.2007
06:55AM EDT 
vertical line :) Morning Harry, I'm off to buy seed potatoes.
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 68941
horizontal line
 
horizontal line
Reply from HarryB
Feb.22.2007
06:59AM EDT 
vertical line Ah, yes, the humble spud. We've got beef with them since the famine.

Regards,

H.
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 68942
horizontal line
 
horizontal line
Reply from whatzen
Feb.22.2007
12:17PM EDT 
Email whatzen
vertical line When all the waking up in the dream is done one still has to wake up in this dream.
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 68961
horizontal line
 
horizontal line
Reply from Lynnoh
Feb.22.2007
12:21PM EDT 
Email Lynnoh
vertical line the dream and this dream      ?
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 68962
horizontal line
 
horizontal line
Reply from HarryB
Feb.22.2007
12:43PM EDT 
vertical line

To wake up in one dream is to wake up in the other. Same mind, same delusion.

Regards,

Harry.

vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 68973
horizontal line
 
horizontal line
Reply from Lynnoh
Feb.22.2007
12:46PM EDT 
Email Lynnoh
vertical line

really?

vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 68975
horizontal line
 
horizontal line
Reply from whatzen
Feb.22.2007
12:46PM EDT 
Email whatzen
vertical line Quote: "

To wake up in one dream is to wake up in the other. Same mind, same delusion.

Regards,

Harry.

"
.........

"
.........

And what happens when you wake up?

vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 68976
horizontal line
 
horizontal line
Reply from HarryB
Feb.22.2007
12:49PM EDT 
vertical line

Whatever you want, or nothing at all.

Regards,

Harry.

vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 68980
horizontal line
 
horizontal line
Reply from Lynnoh
Feb.22.2007
12:51PM EDT 
Email Lynnoh
vertical line really?
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 68981
horizontal line
 
horizontal line
Reply from HarryB
Feb.22.2007
12:52PM EDT 
vertical line

maybe.

Regards,

Harry.

vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 68982
horizontal line
 
horizontal line
Reply from Lynnoh
Feb.22.2007
12:54PM EDT 
Email Lynnoh
vertical line

?

vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 68983
horizontal line
 
horizontal line
Reply from HarryB
Feb.22.2007
12:55PM EDT 
vertical line

Good question.

Best wishes,

H.

vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 68984
horizontal line
 
horizontal line
Reply from Lynnoh
Feb.22.2007
12:58PM EDT 
Email Lynnoh
vertical line oh... you mean the one if you wanted maybe ?
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 68986
horizontal line
 
horizontal line
Reply from HarryB
Feb.22.2007
01:01PM EDT 
vertical line

No, I mean your (?) is a good question.

And, yes, I think I do want more questions like that for me and for everybody.

Regards,

Harry.

vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 68989
horizontal line
 
horizontal line
Reply from Woodsman
Feb.22.2007
01:07PM EDT 
Email Woodsman
vertical line I had a dream, but she left me for another, and another, and another... should I continue, dreaming?
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 68991
horizontal line
 
horizontal line
Reply from Lynnoh
Feb.22.2007
01:08PM EDT 
Email Lynnoh
vertical line

but I don't know how this happens

got to go  :)

vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 68992
horizontal line
 
horizontal line
Reply from Woodsman
Feb.22.2007
01:09PM EDT 
Email Woodsman
vertical line See?
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 68993
horizontal line
 
horizontal line
Reply from Lynnoh
Feb.22.2007
01:11PM EDT 
Email Lynnoh
vertical line you?
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 68994
horizontal line
 
horizontal line
Reply from Lynnoh
Feb.22.2007
01:12PM EDT 
Email Lynnoh
vertical line oh! bright light!  :)
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 68995
horizontal line
 
horizontal line
Reply from ______
Feb.22.2007
01:24PM EDT 
vertical line Yes, not an external representation but an interior presence in light.
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 68996
horizontal line
 
horizontal line
Reply from ZenTurtle
Feb.23.2007
09:57AM EDT 
vertical line Does anybody have any experience with morning glory seeds?
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 69013
horizontal line
 
horizontal line
Reply from HarryB
Feb.23.2007
05:28PM EDT 
vertical line

Oh yes. I've found that, if you plant them and care for them appropriately, they will transform into Morning Glory Flowers.

Now, that is a mystery.

Regards,

Harry.

 

vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 69031
horizontal line
 
horizontal line
Reply from ZenTurtle
Feb.24.2007
01:16AM EDT 
vertical line How unforseen.
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 69038
horizontal line
 
horizontal line
Reply from 77 zen ror
Feb.24.2007
03:17PM EDT 
Email 77 zen ror
vertical line Hello ALL, How is every one do,ing RORY
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 69039
horizontal line
 
horizontal line
Reply from HarryB
Feb.24.2007
05:42PM EDT 
vertical line

Yo, Rory. I'm doing.

Thanks, man.

H

vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 69040
horizontal line
 
horizontal line
Reply from HarryB
Feb.24.2007
06:42PM EDT 
vertical line

http://www.lucidity.com/DreamYoga.html

Regards,

H.

vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 69041
horizontal line
 
horizontal line
Reply from HarryB
Feb.27.2007
07:43AM EDT 
vertical line http://tinyurl.com/2bor7y


This is a very good, and mercifully concise, book on the subject and practices with references to buddhism and other mystical traditions.

By Stephen LaBerge Ph.D

Regards,

H
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 69101
horizontal line
 
Back To Topic List   Go to Top of Page

 



SUPPORT ZENGUIDE.COM
If you are planning on purchasing any product from amazon.com, you can help us out by using the search box to the right or by clicking on this link to begin shopping.


Purchase posters, art prints, media (music CD & DVD)

buy this ZEN GARDEN
by Lucy Bishop
Puchase this Item
More Art Prints & Media
Zen & Buddhism books
 
 
d
.
i
.
s
.
c
.
u
.
s
.
s
.
i
.
o
.
n
.

.
f
.
o
.
r
.
u
.
m
.
Copyright © 1999 - 2014 zenguide.com - All rights reserved. °