“Buddhist precepts do/ have not represent a classic western style 'Ten Commandments' to the laity in general. It would be a distortion to equate the two. Overall, and to generalize, I'd say that guilt is not at all as big a thing in Eastern Buddhist traditions, and its certainly less confused with responsibility there.”

I would beg to differ as to how the Commandments and Precepts are the same. Paying attention to both sets of rules would limit your suffering based on human to human interaction. Both would calm the flow of your journey through time. Both sets of rules as stated do not include punishment (punishment always is defined afterward by bureaucrats). If one could look at these rules out of context they would seem to be happiness producers. MU

1. I undertake to abstain from harming living beings

2. I undertake to abstain from taking what is not given

3. I undertake to abstain from sexual misconduct

4. I undertake to abstain from false speech

5. I undertake to abstain from intoxicating drugs or drink

Yes, words, just words; yet words have had such power over people... we've done all sorts of things justified by the words of this one or that one. Words are harmless are they? "Sticks and stones..." and all that, but we hardly all subscribe to that strain of sense.

"Just War"

Regards,

Harry.

Worry? I just like to look at things in terms of harm caused/ not caused. I hardly think that's worrying. In fact it could be quite 'rational' looked at in a certain light (for all that's worth).

Worry is possibly the most indugent way of sapping one's facilities to respond that I can imagine, so don't worry about my worrying.

Worrying is for cowards. The samurai (of which one I am certainly not) were many things: artists, Zen accomplists, murderers, hypocrites, psychopaths even in cases... but they weren't cowards. People, when it comes to truly confronting themselves and others, are generally cowards.

Regards,

Harry.

1. I read it on cereal packets I seen in mystical visions.

2. A 'Zen Accomplist' is my own makey uppey on-the-spot term for someone who has realised what the Zen tradition points to.

A general point: I personally find meaning meaningless and hugely over rated. That's possibly why I have some affinity with a tradition that ultimately points beyond concepts and relative perceptions of 'meaning' to how things actually exist... at least my experience bears out that it is, at least, a little more objective.

Regards,

Harry.

And thus we return to the Silly Game, although even a gerbal on a wheel gets some excercise and it knows where its wheel is and where it is not.

Pray continue (if its no harm).

Regards,

H.

Please don't thank me for that, really.   :-)

If you do work out how to talk/ think your way into the kingdom of heaven then please do remember us here on the Zen list.

On the other hand, the earth isn't such a bad place once you disarm it.... BY ANY MEANS. HIIIIIIIIIIIIII-YAAAAHHHHHHHHHHH!

More grumpy Zen masters, more slaps on the head and sticks on the legs for the likes of us I say.

Regards,

Harry.

I think you'll probably find that you want me to do things other than I think or say.

Go off and be a 'Zen' sheep or other styled drone if that's what you admire, don't Lord it over the rest of us though- or do, if it seems appropriate to whatever holy book you're misinterpreting.

My words are worthless, I try to treat them as such, and don't make them 'harmful' unless I'm sure I know what I'm harming is as useless and as inhibitive as a tinfoil bathing suit . If you don't like the meaning you have on my words then the truly responsible thing  (and the most wise and sure-fire method) would be to consider what meaning you put on my words, and where the value of the meaning comes from (Hee hee hee...) or are you the sort of chap that lets yourSELF get fired up over a triffling cartoon of a prophet?

Regards,

Harry. 

Dont forget these from Jesus:

One of the teachers of the law came and heard them debating. Noticing that Jesus had given them a good answer, he asked him, "Of all the commandments, which is the most important?" "The most important one," answered Jesus, "is this: 'Hear, O Israel, the Lord our God, the Lord is one. Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind and with all your strength.' The second is this: 'Love your neighbor as yourself.' There is no commandment greater than these." (NIV, Mark 12:28-31).

Hahahahaha... meaning/ ultimate/ relative/ me/ you/ us/jesus/ buddha/ commandments (old/ revised: your 'choice')...

What a crock of Blarney!

Oh, I'm a terrible chap, aren't I. For Christ's sake save yourself Hee hee hee. I'm going to slip of the cross of our minds and sit zazen. May everything bless you all, especially bulls**t, cartoons and other silly little wonders.

I came to a dream world, talked dream crap, and was thrown in a hole in the dream ground, unwittingly we make it a rather unintersting dream. I think I'll play a dream duduk. Does this make us 'bad people'? We're ALL bad people to somebody.

Regards,

Bad Buddhist Chap.

Merely pointing out that from a so called Christian angle Jesus sort of put aside the other commandments and recommended the tops on his list. As with any ancient text one has to read between the interpretations and mis-interpretations and socio/political slants. Try to imagine how he may have originally said it, and for that matter how Buddha may have uttered his truths. Myself, am not Christian, Buddhist or even Zennist. I prefer to continue to drop all the identifications. Advaita is more my liking, though without adopting any particular label or narrow view-point. Gratitude and respect for all true teachers but not in for worshipping any particular form or spiritual personage...too sticky that. Truth stands fine on its own.

Quote: "Your meaningless explanation using words of meaning to convey the meaning of that which you mean to say. "
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hhahaahhaaha

Quote: "Writing to an old man, is like wronging to a young. "
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oh ho!

Quote: "Nothing to save, is nothing to bear. "
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just hugs

Quote: "Quote: "I've read the book of illusions, it was... austere."
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ah...and did you play the musicbox? Do you like the variations?"
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hm, yes this morning with the granddaughter... what variations?

Quote: "Lynnoh, scroll up 9 posts and click musicbox."
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saw it on the way down, but then went up....oh yeah... the lights go like that too... very nice   :)

commandments-precepts:

Student in the Highlands looking for summer work: "Got any odd jobs?"
Farmer: "Well, you could try milking the bull."

Quote: " "cows make milk" ... "no, mommys make milk""
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that stuff from reading word milk ?

no from drinking and thinking

Quote: "if is from reading...was by you or before doing"
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hahaha