history principles practice stories, books, media discussion forum organizations resources
zenguide.com logo
 
Friday Oct 24 2014 08:01AM ET
º login º register º email º guestbook º printer friendly
grey dot
  The exquisite Shunkai whose other name was Suzu was compelled to marry against her wishes when she was quite young. Later, after this marriage had ended, she attended the university, where she studied philosophy. To see Shunkai was to fall... continue...

z
.
e
.
n
menu left history menu spacer principles menu spacer practice menu spacer zen media menu spacer discussion forum menu spacer organization directory menu spacer resources  
login
  DISCUSSION FORUM
» topic list   » start a new topic   » my tracked topics   » view topic
grey dot

horizontal line
→→→→ vertical line TOPIC: TORTOISE'S PARADOX
vertical line Posted on Mar.08.2007 @ 09:27PM EDT by boymonk
In the paradox of Achilles and the Tortoise, we imagine the Greek hero Achilles in a footrace with the plodding reptile. Because he is such a fast runner, Achilles graciously allows the tortoise a head start of a hundred feet. If we suppose that each racer starts running at some constant speed (one very fast and one very slow), then after some finite time, Achilles will have run a hundred feet, bringing him to the tortoise's starting point; during this time, the tortoise has "run" a (much shorter) distance, say one foot. It will then take Achilles some further period of time to run that distance, in which said period the tortoise will advance farther; and then another period of time to reach this third point, while the tortoise moves ahead. Thus, whenever Achilles reaches somewhere the tortoise has been, he still has farther to go. Therefore, Zeno says, swift Achilles can never overtake the tortoise. Thus, while common sense and common experience would hold that one runner can catch another, according to the above argument, he cannot; this is the paradox.

The moral of the story is, of course, don't run a foot race with a tortoise if you're an imbecile.
Go to Latest Reply   Reply to this Topic
horizontal line
 
horizontal line
Reply from 77 zen ror
Mar.08.2007
09:34PM EDT 
Email 77 zen ror
vertical line How are you . I have not seen any one on for a very long time RORY
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 69474
horizontal line
 
horizontal line
Reply from boymonk
Mar.08.2007
10:10PM EDT 
vertical line You get a big hugy, (((((77 zen ror))))).
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 69477
horizontal line
 
horizontal line
Reply from ______
Mar.09.2007
05:46AM EDT 
vertical line I comes home when the lights are out on
I puts my key in the door
I's particular brand of neurosis means
I's not around no, not no more

It's a modern romance

The streets are bright and shiny
The wind whistles up my favourite tree
When the trees whistle
The wind come running
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 69478
horizontal line
 
horizontal line
Reply from ______
Mar.09.2007
06:14AM EDT 
vertical line Aim long shot and no hitty target
Arrow fly through first half distance
Then through second half distance
Then through third half distance
Arrow can not hitty target
A flight in paradox
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 69480
horizontal line
 
horizontal line
Reply from boymonk
Mar.09.2007
02:05PM EDT 
vertical line Ok folks, in effort to boost popularity I promise a hug to anyone who posts in this thread, starting with myself. (((boymonk)))
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 69498
horizontal line
 
horizontal line
Reply from -----0
Mar.09.2007
02:08PM EDT 
vertical line

Zeno's point is that subject can never attain the object of its desire. Achilles can overtake the tortoise, because is faster, but he can never get to it.

vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 69499
horizontal line
 
horizontal line
Reply from boymonk
Mar.09.2007
02:10PM EDT 
vertical line Except for -----0
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 69500
horizontal line
 
horizontal line
Reply from -----0
Mar.09.2007
02:19PM EDT 
vertical line :(
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 69502
horizontal line
 
horizontal line
Reply from lehish
Mar.09.2007
03:25PM EDT 
Email lehish
vertical line

hehehehehehe

(  (  (    -----0     )  )  )

vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 69503
horizontal line
 
horizontal line
Reply from boymonk
Mar.09.2007
05:27PM EDT 
vertical line (((Leheheheheish!)))
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 69504
horizontal line
 
horizontal line
Reply from Woodsman
Mar.09.2007
10:20PM EDT 
Email Woodsman
vertical line Begin, as the beginning.
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 69506
horizontal line
 
horizontal line
Reply from lehish
Mar.10.2007
12:55AM EDT 
Email lehish
vertical line (((b(o(y(m)o)n)k)))
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 69514
horizontal line
 
horizontal line
Reply from Woodsman
Mar.10.2007
07:44AM EDT 
Email Woodsman
vertical line Pet monkey. Word junkie.
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 69521
horizontal line
 
horizontal line
Reply from Lynnoh
Mar.10.2007
11:41AM EDT 
Email Lynnoh
vertical line but is this so true... that they should not ever meet? no matter where the distance ran... still in one place....?
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 69527
horizontal line
 
horizontal line
Reply from boymonk
Mar.10.2007
01:36PM EDT 
vertical line WOW, you're a great hugger, Lehish!

(((Lynn, oh Lynn!)))

I'm a little homophobic so a little shoulder pat is the best I can do, Woodsman ' ' '
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 69529
horizontal line
 
horizontal line
Reply from -----0
Mar.10.2007
01:41PM EDT 
vertical line {{{{{lehish}}}}}
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 69530
horizontal line
 
horizontal line
Reply from -----0
Mar.10.2007
01:47PM EDT 
vertical line Sometimes, in our dreams, the object of our desire is at hand, but still we can't reach it, no matter how much we try, it always escapes us by some puzzling miracle . . .
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 69531
horizontal line
 
horizontal line
Reply from ______
Mar.10.2007
03:38PM EDT 
vertical line Ok here it is: I give Tortoise a head start of 100 feet in a race of 99 feet, so she's already over the finish line before the race starts. Then I give Tortoise a head start of 100 feet in a marathon. When I catch up with Tortoise, I stop, bend down, pick her up and we play BullShit Bingo on the way.
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 69532
horizontal line
 
horizontal line
Reply from boymonk
Mar.10.2007
07:02PM EDT 
vertical line (((Rustic!)))
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 69533
horizontal line
 
horizontal line
Reply from 77 zen ror
Mar.10.2007
08:59PM EDT 
Email 77 zen ror
vertical line How are you doi'ng MONK
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 69534
horizontal line
 
horizontal line
Reply from ______
Mar.11.2007
04:57AM EDT 
vertical line Changing illusory pace and direction, misfit underdogtortoises, outsiders in a church of outsiders, we play I-spy. (I know a chicken called Penguin who won't compete-race either. She just wants to eat corn, drink, scratch in the earth, take dust-baths, doze and sleep on a perch, day and night.) Anyway, Tortoise's legs come out and start moving and those big limpid tortoise eye-pools eventually demand, "Put me down!" So returning her to clover she meets Hare. She points to a book of Buddhist scriptures and asks, "How much of their content was Buddha's and how much came from demons?" Hare immediately replies, "They are all the demons." "Excellent," says Tortoise, in between succulent bites of purple-red-white flowers, "now no one will be able to pull the wool over your eyes."
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 69538
horizontal line
 
horizontal line
Reply from boymonk
Mar.11.2007
12:03PM EDT 
vertical line Not bad, 77, lots of work to do, all of which was due last week but other than that it's all good. Thanks for asking.

How you dew'n?
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 69543
horizontal line
 
horizontal line
Reply from Lynnoh
Mar.11.2007
05:39PM EDT 
Email Lynnoh
vertical line

Quote: "Ok here it is: I give Tortoise a head start of 100 feet in a race of 99 feet, so she's already over the finish line before the race starts. Then I give Tortoise a head start of 100 feet in a marathon. When I catch up with Tortoise, I stop, bend down, pick her up and we play BullShit Bingo on the way."
.........

hahaha

vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 69545
horizontal line
 
horizontal line
Reply from Lynnoh
Mar.11.2007
05:53PM EDT 
Email Lynnoh
vertical line

Quote: "Not bad, 77, lots of work to do, all of which was due last week but other than that it's all good. Thanks for asking.

How you dew'n?
"
.........

due last week ! then it will never get done  oh...no..... I suppose you could go back to where it was due tomorrow?..oh...no.... then enough time...

vending machine

vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 69549
horizontal line
 
horizontal line
Reply from Lynnoh
Mar.11.2007
06:01PM EDT 
Email Lynnoh
vertical line nope... that will never due
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 69551
horizontal line
 
horizontal line
Reply from Woodsman
Mar.11.2007
10:37PM EDT 
Email Woodsman
vertical line Ah do herr!

Riceball...
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 69559
horizontal line
 
horizontal line
Reply from lehish
Mar.12.2007
04:34AM EDT 
Email lehish
vertical line

danc  -----0  ing

 

vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 69561
horizontal line
 
horizontal line
Reply from lehish
Mar.12.2007
04:35AM EDT 
Email lehish
vertical line boy :) monk!
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 69562
horizontal line
 
horizontal line
Reply from boymonk
Mar.12.2007
04:34PM EDT 
vertical line Ok I'm all hugged out for this thread so anyone who wants to post further paradoxes around our good friend Achilles may do so without fear of pseudo personal space invasion from yours truly (that would be me). Cheers!
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 69577
horizontal line
 
horizontal line
Reply from Woodsman
Mar.12.2007
04:37PM EDT 
Email Woodsman
vertical line Don't be hugging the glass... you said.
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 69579
horizontal line
 
horizontal line
Reply from Lynnoh
Mar.12.2007
04:37PM EDT 
Email Lynnoh
vertical line ((()))  is space psedo space invasion?
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 69580
horizontal line
 
horizontal line
Reply from Lynnoh
Mar.12.2007
04:38PM EDT 
Email Lynnoh
vertical line ha! just the question was wanting to ask !
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 69581
horizontal line
 
horizontal line
Reply from Lynnoh
Mar.12.2007
04:49PM EDT 
Email Lynnoh
vertical line hello?
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 69582
horizontal line
 
horizontal line
Reply from Lynnoh
Mar.12.2007
04:52PM EDT 
Email Lynnoh
vertical line hm... good day
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 69583
horizontal line
 
horizontal line
Reply from boymonk
Mar.12.2007
04:52PM EDT 
vertical line (((W(o(o(d(s(m(a(n(&)L)y)n)n)o)h))) Haha! tricked you guys again, when will you ever learn. Me moonwalking like only a tortoise can, hehe!
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 69584
horizontal line
 
horizontal line
Reply from Lynnoh
Mar.12.2007
04:54PM EDT 
Email Lynnoh
vertical line to be tricked one has to know they have been tricked don't they?
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 69586
horizontal line
 
horizontal line
Reply from Lynnoh
Mar.12.2007
04:55PM EDT 
Email Lynnoh
vertical line I haven't a clue what you mean
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 69587
horizontal line
 
horizontal line
Reply from boymonk
Mar.12.2007
05:01PM EDT 
vertical line I don't think Achilles ever knew he was tricked either, if that's any consolation, Lynnoh.
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 69594
horizontal line
 
horizontal line
Reply from Lynnoh
Mar.12.2007
05:04PM EDT 
Email Lynnoh
vertical line oh... the consulation is in being the same with another
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 69597
horizontal line
 
horizontal line
Reply from boymonk
Mar.12.2007
05:13PM EDT 
vertical line Me not moonwalking anymore :(
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 69602
horizontal line
 
horizontal line
Reply from Woodsman
Mar.12.2007
05:14PM EDT 
Email Woodsman
vertical line That's ok.
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 69603
horizontal line
 
horizontal line
Reply from Lynnoh
Mar.12.2007
05:15PM EDT 
Email Lynnoh
vertical line ok :)
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 69604
horizontal line
 
horizontal line
Reply from ______
Mar.12.2007
05:19PM EDT 
vertical line ok, yeah, just back from the vet surgery.
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 69606
horizontal line
 
horizontal line
Reply from boymonk
Mar.12.2007
05:25PM EDT 
vertical line How'd that go, Rustic?
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 69611
horizontal line
 
horizontal line
Reply from Lynnoh
Mar.12.2007
05:26PM EDT 
Email Lynnoh
vertical line please do tell
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 69612
horizontal line
 
horizontal line
Reply from ______
Mar.12.2007
05:37PM EDT 
vertical line It's all my fault. I tried cutting some goose-grass burrs that had got all matted up in our cat Willow's fur and ended up cutting a hole in her skin.
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 69617
horizontal line
 
horizontal line
Reply from Lynnoh
Mar.12.2007
05:38PM EDT 
Email Lynnoh
vertical line oh... 
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 69618
horizontal line
 
horizontal line
Reply from Lynnoh
Mar.12.2007
05:40PM EDT 
Email Lynnoh
vertical line had a cyst on my face removed years ago...and it just felt like that.... the cutting after numbing..... I could hear it.....
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 69620
horizontal line
 
horizontal line
Reply from Lynnoh
Mar.12.2007
05:42PM EDT 
Email Lynnoh
vertical line like a ripple. and oh
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 69621
horizontal line
 
horizontal line
Reply from ______
Mar.12.2007
05:54PM EDT 
vertical line No complaints or reproaches even as I cut her skin - she made only the smallest of sounds when I did it - of course this made me feel even worse. The vet gave her antibiotic and painkiller injections and wants to see her again tomorrow, possibly to put a couple of stitches in the wound. Couldn't do that tonight because she had just eaten and would need a general anaesthetic.
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 69626
horizontal line
 
horizontal line
Reply from Lynnoh
Mar.12.2007
05:57PM EDT 
Email Lynnoh
vertical line um... I have to go     gassho
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 69627
horizontal line
 
horizontal line
Reply from boymonk
Mar.12.2007
09:35PM EDT 
vertical line Send love to Willow, your stoic cat for me, Rustic, and best wishes for a speedy recovery.
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 69632
horizontal line
 
horizontal line
Reply from -----0
Mar.13.2007
01:39PM EDT 
vertical line

In another of his paradoxes Zeno says that in order to come to the end of the path we must first cover half of it, and to cover half, we must first cover one quarter of it and so on.

It is being on the path that matters, not reaching the end of it.

vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 69640
horizontal line
 
horizontal line
Reply from ______
Mar.13.2007
03:00PM EDT 
vertical line Thank you boymonk. The vet did a good job and she's back home with us now.
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 69641
horizontal line
 
horizontal line
Reply from boymonk
Jun.28.2011
11:40PM EDT 
vertical line Hey,

I posted this paradox FOUR YEARS AGO. I would think that that was enough time for you all to think it over.

So... how did you resolve the paradox?
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 126775
horizontal line
 
horizontal line
Reply from Woodsman
Jun.28.2011
11:43PM EDT 
Email Woodsman
vertical line acausality 
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 126777
horizontal line
 
horizontal line
Reply from boymonk
Jun.28.2011
11:53PM EDT 
vertical line
001011111011010111111011011100100010000100100000010110100100110100000100101001001010110100010001100000000010011110111001000110001100000010011001101110
010011110010111110001101000101010010010111110000000111001111010011111010010110110101001101111000010000111100011010010111011100010010011011011111110011
000100000100100001111010001110111001101111000110111001110011100100110110101110011001100110100100111110101100011001000011010110000110010010100001011000
111100011001000000111000101100011001001111010110001101101101001111101000000010000101011001011000111001110011011010011101011000001001110010110111011100
000100000110010100011111011010101111100000100010010111011000011001001101001000110010000001000010101101101010110111101000100011111111110010000110111000
010110000110011101011011011101101001100001110001011100001110100000011100100110110111000011001000011101000110100100010101100010010100101110110101001011
101101010010001111101111001110000100001010000001010111011111011101000110111001000111010001011000001001101100111011011001111111010011010000101110011000
011010101011111100001011101011111101011100101011001111100001111001100001000001101000110000010101100011010010010011110001000110100010010101011011000110
001000100010010101000110111011110110100000111001011010111100100001101111110000001011000000010101111011111000110001111000011010111101011110101010011101
111010010101001110110011011000010111000110011101011010101101000010111010011011010001010111000011000111100100000110010111001100000100101111010000001010
111001011011110000100100000010010100110010111100111010001011010000110010110001111111000010110001001011001001100110000010101101000100100110011000100010
100001101010001111001001111111100011001011101011001111001010011111001010111111101010101011001001110010101001011111010111111000101101100000001111100111
100101111100111010000100111011100101010110011101010101110101100001011101001001000111000000101100011111001101010010000011100010010010001101010010010000
010011001110101100001100100010000000011111001101100100001001110110110110101010001110000101011101100111111101100011110100000001111111111111001011110111
001110100011100100010000110100011111111011011101011101111011111110111011011000111000011110100101111110100000100100010000111101110111111000100010001111
100100111011111001011100001011000111001110011101110000101001111000001011000000111100001000000000101000111110101100010110101101101110111011111100001001
010000110000110000001100111011011000001001111001111111001101010000011011110000111110100010001101111001100110001101010000011101011011000011011000111101
000100100001100001001011011000110001101111001101011010010000110010000100110001001111111110011111101001110010101001000011011000110101111011100000001111
011000111001001000110100000101110111110001011100110100011110100101100111111100010011111110011110111010000111001110011111101011001100011010111101001110
101110001010001110110011101010000001110010011000000100111110001000110010000001001000011101110111101101011010010111011110001001110100001000101100000110
100000101011100000000010100001000001101010111011001111101101111111101110100101110010000101001001010001101010010011001010000000001001000010101001010100
010110100100100011011100001100101100100000000111001000000110100000001100001001000000001011111010010111010000110111010000001011001100010011100001001110
001010010011100101011011110010101100010100011100000110011101001101001001001000100101010101110111101011011100101000001100101001010000101110001001101101
110010000110101011101110110001100010001100001001101110101010110100001001101000011011100000111001100011001100001111110000100101001111000000011100011110
001001000001101001010010101110000100110110010011011000100100000001111111100110011110111111101010101110101001100100101010010010111110001011010011010111
110010100110011010110011010001001000110001111101001000010000110000111110100111001011111100100100001101101000100011110111011101001001001001000011110011
110110100011010001100100010000111101110001000011111000100000010101011101110010100111001001101100110010001110000111010000100100001101101011011001101010
010101011001001111011000011011000001111010001111110010100000100100110011100000011101101001101001011110101010110111000010110000101110101100001001011101
001001001000101110110100010010010011110111001101011100111100111011011110010011011011100000101101011100000011011100101011100100011001100110100011010110
000011000111100101101100010011101000011111001110011101001100000111111001011001100110110101001110010100111111000111100111110010000101111011000110000101
101011001111000000011011010000101101111011000110011001101101001101100101011101010000110011111111111111110100100010101000100001100001111001001100010100
101101001000011100111111100011110100001100001010011110010101110010110100100010010001110011100111101000001000101001000101100001001101111110001110111100
001111110111010001101001101011100010101110101100001101111100011100000110010100001001111000001100010011110001101001011111110111100000100001000111001000
000111101101000110011111010101010010111011111111001111000001000100100100100101111000111001011001101110110010010110111000011010101010000010000011110000
001010011001000011100011111010110000111111001000110111001110000001011011110001000101001111010001010110001100000011011010101000000101011011110001111101
101111001100001110001101000001100100011100100000000010111001010000111111100010000001110010000101110001001001111111011011001111000000011101110011001110
100101011001110100000111001000110111011001000101001111111010001010010110110000011011111111101001111111110011001011100001001100000101111111101011110100
100000101011100011000111001110111100000000111110111011110110101111011010111111011110001010000011000100001100111011011001111100001100100000111010110000
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 126779
horizontal line
 
horizontal line
Reply from boymonk
Jun.28.2011
11:54PM EDT 
vertical line ... and well worth the wait.
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 126780
horizontal line
 
horizontal line
Reply from Joe Chip
Jun.29.2011
07:40PM EDT 
vertical line Nyom nyom nyom nyom nyom.
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 126808
horizontal line
 
horizontal line
Reply from genericzen
Jun.30.2011
05:34PM EDT 
Email genericzen
vertical line when turtle combines with rabbit
women laugh
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 126840
horizontal line
 
horizontal line
Reply from lazena
Jun.30.2011
05:55PM EDT 
vertical line nah, I just googled it ;)
http://www.mathacademy.com/pr/prime/articles/zeno_tort/index.asp

"Now, since motion obviously is possible, the question arises, what is wrong with Zeno?"
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 126841
horizontal line
 
horizontal line
Reply from lazena
Jun.30.2011
06:02PM EDT 
vertical line So the moral of the story would be:

If you a running, just run. If you are thinking, just think. Don't try to do both :P
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 126842
horizontal line
 
horizontal line
Reply from Chryseis
Jul.02.2011
01:44AM EDT 
vertical line The tortoise is 'the way'
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 126868
horizontal line
 
horizontal line
Reply from Chryseis
Jul.02.2011
02:02AM EDT 
vertical line capital W, rather
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 126869
horizontal line
 
Back To Topic List   Go to Top of Page

 



SUPPORT ZENGUIDE.COM
If you are planning on purchasing any product from amazon.com, you can help us out by using the search box to the right or by clicking on this link to begin shopping.


Purchase posters, art prints, media (music CD & DVD)

buy this BUDDHA (DETAIL)
by
Puchase this Item
More Art Prints & Media
Zen & Buddhism books
 
 
d
.
i
.
s
.
c
.
u
.
s
.
s
.
i
.
o
.
n
.

.
f
.
o
.
r
.
u
.
m
.
Copyright © 1999 - 2014 zenguide.com - All rights reserved. °