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  Subhuti was Buddha's disciple. He was able to understand the potency of emptiness, that nothing exists except in its relationship of subjectivity and objectivity. One day, in a mood of sublime emptiness, Subhuti was resting underneath a tree... continue...

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→→→→ vertical line TOPIC: WHY SUFFERING?
vertical line Posted on Mar.23.2007 @ 12:12PM EDT by whatzen
What is all the nobility of suffering? Can someone who perhaps dons Buddhism, or anyone else tell me about it? I understand we all suffer, there is no end to the emotions that course thru our experience of living. I know that we feel for those who suffer, to that there is also no end. But what is there to be gained from dwelling on suffering? Is there something good in it as suffering itself? Am I perhaps missing an important point? Please enlighten this one.
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Reply from HarryB
Mar.23.2007
12:23PM EDT 
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What isn't suffering? Where isn't suffering?

An alternative seems illusive to the world does it not?

The Buddhist gig would be to quote you the four noble truths or something, unfortunately they haven't developed them into pill form particularly successfully yet, people have mistaken them for a religious artifact.

Regards,

Harry.

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Reply from whatzen
Mar.23.2007
12:26PM EDT 
Email whatzen
vertical line I am not suffering, though I experience it all around.
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 70059
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Reply from HarryB
Mar.23.2007
12:35PM EDT 
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Not suffering? Capitol, then you're a Buddha. If you can observe the suffering, even 'your own' suffering, then who is suffering, right?... and who, or what, is not suffering?

This is really all there is, the opening of ones awareness on suffering, not identifying with it, not welcoming or rejecting it, just letting it come and go in your awareness. The awareness is your deathless buddha nature, the suffering is impermanent. I'm not saying the practice is easy, but this is really the 'highest' (practical) teaching on Buddha nature.

Jod done, we're all enlightened, no walking on water, flying on clouds, levitation, gurus etc... required. Thank you, Buddha and co. Goodnight. 

Regards,

Harry.

 

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Reply from -----0
Mar.23.2007
12:54PM EDT 
vertical line Suffering in Buddhist sense is caused by our idealistic expectations, when the world fails to meet the artificial standards we have ourselves invented for it. This suffering is overcame by acceptance of the world just as it is. Reality never fails, it is only our expectations that fail.
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 70061
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Reply from boymonk
Mar.23.2007
12:58PM EDT 
vertical line I would suggest not making suffering a dwelling, meaning don't cling or push away, just visit, capeesh?
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 70063
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Reply from whatzen
Mar.23.2007
01:42PM EDT 
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"....this is really the 'highest' (practical) teaching on Buddha nature."

I agree. To be in the midst of the never-ending rising and falling of suffering (pain and pleasure) but know it is a mere picture show. Myself and everyone is Buddha yet I still fall into the trap moment to moment. It is difficult not to identify with the enactment of this body/mind scene. It is such a sublime actor, it being so intimate with the act it has spun. The good news is that I have learned more to avoid the pitfalls and become trapped less and with less immersion.

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Reply from ______
Mar.23.2007
01:48PM EDT 
vertical line The whole world is suffering from the delusion of ego and its baggage, mirroring the selfish and hellish states of mind which are projected on to it. Although life is more than an intricate web of cause and effect, suffering is the returns or reflections of selfish actions. If it's the meaning of suffering you're 'looking for' you will 'find' it in the way it is healed.
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Reply from cypherying
Mar.25.2007
06:08PM EDT 
Email cypherying
vertical line Hi Whatzen
Your post captures the true nature and quality of suffering!
Suffering itself is caused by an unclear and conflicted understanding of yourself.

Therefore, dwelling in your suffering does not help you escape it nor does it give you merit.
There is no point in suffering!!

You have to see that suffering itself originates from the thinking mind's conflicts.

The idea is that from one unified original self, the mind created a distinction.
ME...YOU

Then further still
Lets recall a primal sense of "good" or "bad"

The identification of something "Good" also gives birth to something "Bad" or undesirable as well.

This gives birth to the realm of relative understanding.
Something can only be "good" if you identify other things as "bad"

Only ABSOLUTE understanding leads to the escape of suffering.

This is the zen buddhist concept of "not two" or in Chinese "bu er"
Its only when you feel like you must chose between two opposites that you give birth to suffering.

The sense of conflict of choosing one or another.
That is suffering.

Its like saying one wants only love, but avoid hate. 
If you look deeply enough, Love and Hate are two sides of the same coin.  You must accept both and see they are the same.
This is how one can avoid suffering.

also you can't eat food and not expect to shit.
Its from our everyday conditioning to believe that its better to eat and not to shit that we cause ourselves to suffer!
Really see it clearly..
how can you eat and not shit?
how can you love and not hate??

So the question is not.. why suffering?
The real question is how to escape your suffering mind.

So Zen teaches to be "not two"
To go backwards in reverse to attain  a sense of "one" and unity.

When you are a fragmented self, its like having two heads going in the opposite directions.

You will literally pull yourself apart.

Be one and your actions, mind, body, and soul will move in accordance with the universe.

This process is also called "walking the path" or "returning back home"

-Kai
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Reply from ______
Mar.25.2007
07:32PM EDT 
vertical line This is suffering created by thoughts of escape, the mind spinning karma-pots looking for escape - because you ask how to escape, there is no escape, you think there is because you think love is the opposite of hate.
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Reply from cypherying
Mar.25.2007
09:38PM EDT 
Email cypherying
vertical line Quote: "This is suffering created by thoughts of escape, the mind spinning karma-pots looking for escape - because you ask how to escape, there is no escape, you think there is because you think love is the opposite of hate. "
.........
Hi Rustic,
Was your post in response to my post?



Although I believe love is very much the opposite of hate how do you see this matter?


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Reply from ______
Mar.26.2007
06:20AM EDT 
vertical line The answer to a question is the way it is asked.
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Reply from Woodsman
Mar.26.2007
12:26PM EDT 
Email Woodsman
vertical line I look for the answer, but already know it.
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 70200
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Reply from Woodsman
Mar.26.2007
02:30PM EDT 
Email Woodsman
vertical line don't wanna sow it?
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 70229
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Reply from cypherying
Mar.26.2007
05:26PM EDT 
Email cypherying
vertical line Quote: "What is all the nobility of suffering? Can someone who perhaps dons Buddhism, or anyone else tell me about it? I understand we all suffer, there is no end to the emotions that course thru our experience of living. I know that we feel for those who suffer, to that there is also no end. But what is there to be gained from dwelling on suffering? Is there something good in it as suffering itself? Am I perhaps missing an important point? Please enlighten this one."
.........

Suffering is something we create through judgment. When we hear a sound, we pass the sound through many levels of judgment. From sound it is translated into words; from words it is interpreted as right and wrong; from right and wrong it becomes a label that affects our dignity, our benefit and harm. Through these many layers of judgment, a sound becomes something that hurts us, damages us, and becomes our misery.

A fool has no suffering. He is born lacking the ability to analyze. This ability to analyze comes from our mind and so the mind is our source of suffering. The reason we are miserable is because we take other people's words and actions and convert them into the reasons for our suffering. So misery does not in fact come from other people, rather we create these miseries from other people's messages ourselves. Therefore the source of our suffering is our own ability to judge and analyze.


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Reply from ______
Mar.27.2007
09:52AM EDT 
vertical line the door is in the key

in the forest

ano kato ego eim

in the jungle
the mighty jungle
the lion sleeps tonight

ano kato ego eim

bzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz


vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 70269
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Reply from amylim
Mar.28.2007
12:05AM EDT 
Email amylim
vertical line Quote: "

"....this is really the 'highest' (practical) teaching on Buddha nature."

I agree. To be in the midst of the never-ending rising and falling of suffering (pain and pleasure) but know it is a mere picture show. Myself and everyone is Buddha yet I still fall into the trap moment to moment. It is difficult not to identify with the enactment of this body/mind scene. It is such a sublime actor, it being so intimate with the act it has spun. The good news is that I have learned more to avoid the pitfalls and become trapped less and with less immersion.

"
.........

"
.........

What Happens Are Truths  Zen Emphasis Non-attachment

Have A Great Day

With Metta

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Reply from Woodsman
Mar.28.2007
07:02AM EDT 
Email Woodsman
vertical line I ... no
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 70331
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