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→→→→ vertical line TOPIC: SUPERNORMAL POWERS AND FORMS OF DIRECT KNOWLEDGE
vertical line Posted on Apr.17.2007 @ 01:14PM EDT by Zenaban

Hello,

I am very interested in developing a discussion thread with people interested in understanding how the mind works and researching the Supernormal Powers and Forms of Direct Knowledge included in the teachings and more specifically Path of Purification--Bhikku Bodhi translation chapters XII and XIII. This area of the teachings are of great interest to me because of personal meditation and daily experiences.

 

I've posted three questions to Tricycle Magazine's "Ask Jack" a column in every issue where the community can ask a teacher questions and vote for the questions they would most like to have answered in the next issue. Summer 2007, Jack Kornfield will answer the top 10 questions voted by the community....here's a link to the questions.. http://tricycle.zooleo.com/#f:s_TABS?n:0?n:9 a login is required to vote and and is easily obtainable and free.   I've included the questions and related comments in the text below... I look forward to hearing from everyone who is interested in these questions and related comments to Supernormal Powers and Forms of Direct Knowledge creating a strong discussion forum. I would also be very grateful, if you are interested, to please take a few moments to vote for these questions in the Tricycle Magazine “Ask Jack”. I'm very interested in hearing everyone's response and bringing attention to these teachings, related sciences and legal issues.

 

The questions are limited to 250 characters including whitespace. For each question, there is a comment elaborating on the question.

 

Question 1:  

Can you confirm Supernormal Powers& Direct Knowledge PathofPur(Ch XII& ChXIII)are taught and how SpiritRock can/does use these capabilities for: Interviews; Sangha; change experience.Anonymous submittal resolving issues allowing dharma for all beings

Comments 1:

Expanding upon the 250 character space limitation, I'll elaborate my question in comments.  Chapter XII “The Supernormal Powers (Iddhividha-niddesa)” and Chapter XIII “Other Direct-Knowledges (Abhinna-niddesa)” contain instructions training the mind using different kasinas and definitions for success developing the supernormal powers and forms direct knowledge.  Examples include:  Divine Eye, Divine Ear (Ch. XIII, P.1), Mind Made Body including Transformations of Mind Made Body into other forms(Ch. XII P.130-139),  Travelling through air (Ch. XII P.39,40), Travelling through walls (Ch. XII P.87) and Penetration of Minds (Ch. XIII P.8).  Elegant Universe: http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/elegant/ explains string theory which may become the Physics explanation for these capabilities of the mind. http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/elegant/program.html  Brain Greene’s  3  1-hour  special is an excellent explanation of String Theory and includes some of the above mentioned capabilities of the mind as examples.

Given the teachings include instruction to train the mind developing these capabilities, have Spirit Rock teachers developed these skills. Are these capabilities of mind used by teachers to teach the dharma? I can understand how a teacher having this capability could help meditator’s see their experience more clearly and possibly through Mind Made Body with Transformation, experience states of consciousness which may not have arisen naturally in the meditator’s experience.

Question 2: 

Can you explain how Supernormal Powers and Forms of Direct Knowledge can effect change in awareness including perception, feelings, thoughts, the physical body and pain . Anonymous submittal to resolve issues allowing the dharma for all beings

Comments:

Expanding upon the 250 characters defining the question, I’ve been researching personal experience—during meditation and daily life—which I hypothesize to be related to the use of Supernormal Power.  Meditation experiences include cessation of all mental faculty, awareness of form without boundaries and seeing the rise and fall of each sense door object with just over 2 years meditation practice. Daily life experiences include, channeling speech and the removal of bodily pain sensation from personal experience.  I’m beginning to read Bhikkhu Bodhi’s translation of the Abhidhamma to develop an understanding of the mind, consciousness and how the Supernormal Power can be used to modify another’s experience.  Realizing there may be space requirements for responding to questions, can you describe the components of awareness and their relationship to different types of consciousness and how the Supernormal Power can effect change. Does this change occur in the sense consciousness prior to awareness? Relating this to personal experience, if bodily pain is an object of the body sense door and the Mind Made Body with Transformation can alter the awareness of the body sense,  does the Mind Made Body with Transformation remove the bodily pain from the awareness of my experience and therefore it becomes a constituent of the awareness of the Supernormal Power possessor.

Question 3:

As a Spirit Rock founding teacher, can you explain how you would resolve issues related to retreat  experiences influenced by Supernormal Powers. Anonymous submittal to resolve issues allowing the dharma for all beings.

Comments:

I’d like to expand upon the 250 character limitation for questions… Can you include in your answer how you as founding teacher of Spirit Rock, would protect meditators, teachers, staff and all beings from the use of Supernormal Power without consent. Understanding the difficulty to “prove” the use of Supernormal Power effecting their personal experience and the violation of constitutional rights committed by the Supernormal Power possessor, would you agree the Supernormal Power possessor should lose their constitutional rights and have the mind “read” through the use of Mind Penetrating Mind (Path of Purification –Bhikku Bodhi translation Chapter XIII paragraph 8) capability. Do you feel this information should be admissible in court of law? Do you feel the Supernormal Power possessor should lose their 5th Amendment right not to incriminate themselves.   How would you work towards resolving this
Go to Latest Reply   Reply to this Topic   Email Zenaban
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Reply from shayne
Apr.17.2007
09:01PM EDT 
Email shayne
vertical line No such thing.
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 70623
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Reply from whatzen
Apr.17.2007
09:16PM EDT 
Email whatzen
vertical line I dont know Jack.
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 70624
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Reply from HarryB
Apr.18.2007
07:57AM EDT 
vertical line I can make a desert spoon hang from my nose.

Regards,

H.
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 70625
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Reply from HarryB
Apr.18.2007
07:57AM EDT 
vertical line Can I have money now?

Regards,

H.
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 70626
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Reply from -----0
Apr.18.2007
01:36PM EDT 
vertical line I vote for the question with 250 white-spaces
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 70627
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Reply from stephen
Apr.19.2007
12:13PM EDT 
Email stephen
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My Supernormal Friend:

Very early on during my walk on this path I was told “do not be surprised of what you see, feel or experience during meditation” I was also told not to be frighten or surprised by what I saw during my journey when I was not meditating but only mindful. Supernormal has become to be normal for many of us. I am a trained scientist of sorts but never felt the need to pursue or prove the phenomena of this journey with scientific methods. It is of interest were Buddhism and science collide but the proof of each lies outside the realm of the other. There is nothing supernatural or supernormal about the power of ones Buddha nature or the power of ones mind. MU

vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 70631
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Reply from kelvintan
Apr.19.2007
01:44PM EDT 
Email kelvintan
vertical line Quote: "

My Supernormal Friend:

Very early on during my walk on this path I was told “do not be surprised of what you see, feel or experience during meditation” I was also told not to be frighten or surprised by what I saw during my journey when I was not meditating but only mindful. Supernormal has become to be normal for many of us. I am a trained scientist of sorts but never felt the need to pursue or prove the phenomena of this journey with scientific methods. It is of interest were Buddhism and science collide but the proof of each lies outside the realm of the other. There is nothing supernatural or supernormal about the power of ones Buddha nature or the power of ones mind. MU

"
.........

"
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Supernormal Through Encountering Proven Having Experienced Normalcy

STrue Explaining Phenomena  Hindrances Expect Nothing inorder to have realisation.

With Metta

Kelvin Tan

vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 70645
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Reply from Zenaban
Apr.20.2007
09:04PM EDT 
Email Zenaban
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Thank you for the responses.   My questions are rooted in actual experience where many retreat, meditation and daily life experiences cannot be explained through natural phenomenon.  Some of these experiences include bodily harm and very unpleasant meditation experiences including excessive bodily shaking creating the inability to stand without holding a railing.  I did not investigate conditions creating such experiences until I was presented with daily life experiences including channeled speech which lead me to research the teachings.  Reading Bhante Gunaratana’s Path of Serenity and Insight, I learned about the Supernormal Powers and Forms of Direct Knowledge being a significant component of the path for Supramundane states of consciousness including becoming Arahat.  Because of related crime and bodily harm, I need to pursue all paths of understanding the truthful conditions creating the experience.

Stephen, I would be interested in hearing what type of scientist you are.  I recently learned about the National Security Agency declassifying CIA science and technology research in the area of remote viewing. This research began in the early to mid seventies and was funded for multiple decades and performed from Stanford Research Institute (SRI) in Menlo Park California..USA.   Russell Targ, http://www.espresearch.com/  , is one of the key research physicists has a book titled “The End of Suffering” http://www.theendofsuffering.org/  published 3/2006.  I recently learned about this book and you can find on his website http://www.espresearch.com/ an interesting 36 minute interview where he discusses his work with remote viewing—resulting in the CIA paying his salary while he developed concentration and this leading to his combination of Buddhism and Science.  I have a strong interest in science and am finding the mind quite interesting.  Many of the experiences and suffering in my life have enabled me to focus the energy from this suffering into the exploration of Buddhism and science.

With Metta,

Zenaban—“Heavy Zen”

vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 70683
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Reply from -----0
Apr.21.2007
03:45AM EDT 
vertical line every true experience is non explicable
nothing super in it
just relax
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 70687
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Reply from stephen
Apr.21.2007
11:26AM EDT 
Email stephen
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My supernormal friend:

You do not understand me. Let me tell you a story. I was once in a place of meditation and I was accompanied by a monk who lived there. I was doing metta meditation. My concentration was broken by a feeling that I was being observed. I look up and saw a being flowing in the corner between the wall and the ceiling. I reported this to the monk and he said, ”Ah yes, what is he wearing today?”  Now I  could have read a lot in to all this but I was told not to be surprised. Was it my mind? Was it a visitor?  Was it nothing?  It was interesting. I assumed it was part of my journey. There is no good or bad to these things only what delusions you bring with you. MU

vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 70689
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Reply from ______
Apr.22.2007
08:28AM EDT 
vertical line Hello. Next.
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 70700
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