history principles practice stories, books, media discussion forum organizations resources
zenguide.com logo
 
Friday Nov 28 2014 01:06PM ET
º login º register º email º guestbook º printer friendly
grey dot
  Posted on Aug.15.2009 @ 09:32AM EDT by chontri

Sakuladayi the Wanderer asked the Buddha:
-What is the past and what is the future?
The Buddha answered:
-Let the past be and forget the future. I will teach you that... continue...

z
.
e
.
n
menu left history menu spacer principles menu spacer practice menu spacer zen media menu spacer discussion forum menu spacer organization directory menu spacer resources  
login
  DISCUSSION FORUM
» topic list   » start a new topic   » my tracked topics   » view topic
grey dot

horizontal line
→→→→ vertical line TOPIC: SATORI
vertical line Posted on Apr.18.2007 @ 08:52PM EDT by shayne
What does satori mean to you? what is its dynamics according to the mind ? Just curious as to the replies. thank you.

Go to Latest Reply   Reply to this Topic   Email shayne
horizontal line
 
horizontal line
Reply from nobody
Apr.19.2007
11:45AM EDT 
vertical line It means nothing to me. I don't think about it.
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 70629
horizontal line
 
horizontal line
Reply from Lynnoh
Apr.19.2007
12:11PM EDT 
Email Lynnoh
vertical line without a definition..how would I know what it means?
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 70630
horizontal line
 
horizontal line
Reply from whatzen
Apr.19.2007
12:14PM EDT 
Email whatzen
vertical line

satori

irotas

i rot as

vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 70632
horizontal line
 
horizontal line
Reply from Lynnoh
Apr.19.2007
12:36PM EDT 
Email Lynnoh
vertical line Quote: "

satori

irotas

i rot as

"
.........

"
.........

do you suggest it as a backward body thing?

vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 70635
horizontal line
 
horizontal line
Reply from Siobhan
Apr.19.2007
04:02PM EDT 
vertical line Satori, to understand.  Enlightenment, comes suddenly, but not quickly or easily.
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 70651
horizontal line
 
horizontal line
Reply from whatzen
Apr.19.2007
06:19PM EDT 
Email whatzen
vertical line Quote: "Quote: "

satori

irotas

i rot as

"
.........

"
.........

do you suggest it as a backward body thing?

"
.........

"
.........

I just found the words interesting. On reflection I could try and put the meaning to the words as when one clings to a satori, or an understanding, it becomes a decayed artifact of memory and is no longer satori. Perhaps when a moment of satori is realized as fluid and never-ending it becomes realization.

vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 70656
horizontal line
 
horizontal line
Reply from Lynnoh
Apr.19.2007
08:46PM EDT 
Email Lynnoh
vertical line Quote: "Quote: "Quote: "

satori

irotas

i rot as

"
.........

"
.........

do you suggest it as a backward body thing?

"
.........

"
.........

I just found the words interesting. On reflection I could try and put the meaning to the words as when one clings to a satori, or an understanding, it becomes a decayed artifact of memory and is no longer satori. Perhaps when a moment of satori is realized as fluid and never-ending it becomes realization.

"
......... hmmmmmmmm

"
......... hmmmmmmmm

this is interesting...but goes with the cogito ergo sum does it not? when writing the question "what is the essense of anything?" I looked up at the little figures on the computer and the wondered about memory...

vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 70659
horizontal line
 
horizontal line
Reply from whatzen
Apr.19.2007
08:50PM EDT 
Email whatzen
vertical line Quote: "Quote: "Quote: "Quote: "

satori

irotas

i rot as

"
.........

"
.........

do you suggest it as a backward body thing?

"
.........

"
.........

I just found the words interesting. On reflection I could try and put the meaning to the words as when one clings to a satori, or an understanding, it becomes a decayed artifact of memory and is no longer satori. Perhaps when a moment of satori is realized as fluid and never-ending it becomes realization.

"
......... hmmmmmmmm

"
......... hmmmmmmmm

this is interesting...but goes with the cogito ergo sum does it not? when writing the question "what is the essense of anything?" I looked up at the little figures on the computer and the wondered about memory...

"
.........

"
.........

Good point

vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 70661
horizontal line
 
horizontal line
Reply from shayne
Apr.19.2007
09:15PM EDT 
Email shayne
vertical line to me satori equals awakening. but what does awakening mean?
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 70664
horizontal line
 
horizontal line
Reply from -----0
Apr.21.2007
03:40AM EDT 
vertical line analyzing is not what one can apply to satori and awakening
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 70685
horizontal line
 
horizontal line
Reply from ______
Apr.22.2007
08:32AM EDT 
vertical line whoopee! Next.
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 70703
horizontal line
 
horizontal line
Reply from Bezoomy
Apr.23.2007
06:42AM EDT 
Email Bezoomy
vertical line It's just a thought, like everything, although one can always pretend it's any different.
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 70721
horizontal line
 
horizontal line
Reply from fatnhappy
Apr.23.2007
09:20PM EDT 
Email fatnhappy
vertical line I would say its a square of dark chocolate but here is another opinion

Satori

Satori (? Japanese satori; Chinese: wù - from the verb Satoru) is a Japanese Buddhist term for enlightenment. The word literally means "to understand". It is sometimes loosely used interchangeably with Kensho, but Kensho refers to the first perception of the Buddha-Nature or True-Nature, sometimes referred to as "awakening". Kensho is not a permanent state of enlightenment, but rather a clear glimpse of the true nature of creation. Satori on the other hand refers to "deep" or lasting enlightenment. According to D. T. Suzuki, "Satori is the raison d'etre of Zen, without which Zen is no Zen. Therefore every contrivance, disciplinary and doctrinal, is directed towards satori."[1] Satori can be found in every moment of life, it is wrapped in all daily activities, its goal to unwrap them to see satori.

As an analogy, we may think of a baby when it first walks. After much effort, it stands upright, finds its balance and walks a few steps (kensho), then falls. After continued effort the child will one day find that it is able to walk all the time (satori).

Once the True-Nature has been seen, it is customary to use satori when referring to the enlightenment of the Buddha and the Patriarchs, as their enlightenment was permanent.

The Zen Buddhist experience commonly recognizes enlightenment as a transitory thing in life, almost synonymous with the English term epiphany, and satori is the realization of a state of epiphanic enlightenment. Because all things are transitory according to Zen philosophy, however, the transitory nature of satori is not regarded as limiting in the way that a transitory epiphany would be in Western understandings of enlightenment.

DT Suzuki writes that "Samadhi alone is not enough, you must come out of that state, be awakened from it, and that awakening is Prajna. That movement of coming out of samadhi, and seeing it for what it is, that is satori" [2]

The transitory nature of satori, as opposed to the more enduring Nirvana that is sought in the Buddhist traditions of India, owes much to Taoist influences on Chán Buddhism in China, from which Zen Buddhism of Japan evolved. Taoism is a mystical philosophy that emphasizes the purity of the moment, whereas the Hindu roots of Indian Buddhism lend a longer view toward escaping the Karmic prison of perpetual reincarnation in the material world.[1]



vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 70725
horizontal line
 
horizontal line
Reply from whatzen
Apr.23.2007
10:39PM EDT 
Email whatzen
vertical line Thanks for that. I had the meanings for kensho and satori switched the wrong way.
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 70729
horizontal line
 
horizontal line
Reply from Lynnoh
Apr.24.2007
11:46AM EDT 
Email Lynnoh
vertical line is the bottom congi "heart"
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 70732
horizontal line
 
horizontal line
Reply from lehish
Apr.24.2007
01:22PM EDT 
Email lehish
vertical line

Quote: "I would say its a square of dark chocolate but here is another opinion"
.........
"
.........

;)

vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 70748
horizontal line
 
horizontal line
Reply from shayne
Apr.24.2007
08:49PM EDT 
Email shayne
vertical line

as complete and perfect sanity according to the one defination you have. also it means understanding.

it couldnt mean something outside yourself. nor a thought. so it must have to do with the subjective self and namely the attention.

to me it means to be in accord with the nonverbal reality. or what is is.

vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 70755
horizontal line
 
horizontal line
Reply from fatnhappy
Apr.25.2007
08:29PM EDT 
Email fatnhappy
vertical line Quote: "

as complete and perfect sanity according to the one defination you have. also it means understanding.

it couldnt mean something outside yourself. nor a thought. so it must have to do with the subjective self and namely the attention.

to me it means to be in accord with the nonverbal reality. or what is is.

"
.........Indeed old friend , Indeedy :)
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 70764
horizontal line
 
horizontal line
Reply from Govindi
Apr.29.2007
07:50PM EDT 
vertical line

DT Suzuki writes that "Samadhi alone is not enough, you must come out of that state, be awakened from it, and that awakening is Prajna. That movement of coming out of samadhi, and seeing it for what it is, that is satori" [2]

Prajna= wisdom of awakening... Satori= realization of samadhi(awakening). Even the Buddha was unsure if he should teach the dahrma, only through prajna paramita did he have the compassion to teach us all the path to nirvana... Metta to All :-)

PS>>> I thought it was chocolate...

vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 70790
horizontal line
 
horizontal line
Reply from shayne
Apr.29.2007
08:49PM EDT 
Email shayne
vertical line so............no mindedness?
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 70791
horizontal line
 
horizontal line
Reply from lehish
Apr.30.2007
02:55AM EDT 
Email lehish
vertical line

Quote: "PS>>> I thought it was chocolate..."
.........

thought what was chocooate?

vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 70794
horizontal line
 
horizontal line
Reply from kelvintan
Apr.30.2007
09:39AM EDT 
Email kelvintan
vertical line

SATORI

Simple Action Transcending One's Realisation Instantly

With Metta

vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 70797
horizontal line
 
horizontal line
Reply from Woodsman
Apr.30.2007
10:38AM EDT 
Email Woodsman
vertical line .
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 70798
horizontal line
 
horizontal line
Reply from Lynnoh
Apr.30.2007
11:30AM EDT 
Email Lynnoh
vertical line Quote: "

Quote: "PS>>> I thought it was chocolate..."
.........

thought what was chocooate?

"
.........

"
.........

carmal

vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 70799
horizontal line
 
horizontal line
Reply from lehish
Apr.30.2007
12:59PM EDT 
Email lehish
vertical line hehehe :D
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 70811
horizontal line
 
horizontal line
Reply from kelvintan
May.06.2007
02:50AM EDT 
Email kelvintan
vertical line Quote: "I would say its a square of dark chocolate but here is another opinion

Satori

Satori (? Japanese satori; Chinese: wù - from the verb Satoru) is a Japanese Buddhist term for enlightenment. The word literally means "to understand". It is sometimes loosely used interchangeably with Kensho, but Kensho refers to the first perception of the Buddha-Nature or True-Nature, sometimes referred to as "awakening". Kensho is not a permanent state of enlightenment, but rather a clear glimpse of the true nature of creation. Satori on the other hand refers to "deep" or lasting enlightenment. According to D. T. Suzuki, "Satori is the raison d'etre of Zen, without which Zen is no Zen. Therefore every contrivance, disciplinary and doctrinal, is directed towards satori."[1] Satori can be found in every moment of life, it is wrapped in all daily activities, its goal to unwrap them to see satori.

As an analogy, we may think of a baby when it first walks. After much effort, it stands upright, finds its balance and walks a few steps (kensho), then falls. After continued effort the child will one day find that it is able to walk all the time (satori).

Once the True-Nature has been seen, it is customary to use satori when referring to the enlightenment of the Buddha and the Patriarchs, as their enlightenment was permanent.

The Zen Buddhist experience commonly recognizes enlightenment as a transitory thing in life, almost synonymous with the English term epiphany, and satori is the realization of a state of epiphanic enlightenment. Because all things are transitory according to Zen philosophy, however, the transitory nature of satori is not regarded as limiting in the way that a transitory epiphany would be in Western understandings of enlightenment.

DT Suzuki writes that "Samadhi alone is not enough, you must come out of that state, be awakened from it, and that awakening is Prajna. That movement of coming out of samadhi, and seeing it for what it is, that is satori" [2]

The transitory nature of satori, as opposed to the more enduring Nirvana that is sought in the Buddhist traditions of India, owes much to Taoist influences on Chán Buddhism in China, from which Zen Buddhism of Japan evolved. Taoism is a mystical philosophy that emphasizes the purity of the moment, whereas the Hindu roots of Indian Buddhism lend a longer view toward escaping the Karmic prison of perpetual reincarnation in the material world.[1]



"
.........



"
.........

"
.........

Sharing the above merits with you

Fathoming At Transitory Nature Helps Awakening Prajna Paramita Yourself

With
Metta

vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 70866
horizontal line
 
horizontal line
Reply from kelvintan
May.06.2007
01:32PM EDT 
Email kelvintan
vertical line

Quote: ". "
.........

Hi Bro,

Wordless. One Offers Dharma. Stillness, Movement And Non-existence

In Stillness there is still Movement

In Movement  there is still Existence

In Existence there is still Non-Existence

In Non-Existence there is still Stillness

SIT

Still In Thoughts

With Metta

vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 70867
horizontal line
 
horizontal line
Reply from Woodsman
May.07.2007
09:54AM EDT 
Email Woodsman
vertical line mew?
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 70871
horizontal line
 
horizontal line
Reply from Davidseon
May.08.2007
06:08AM EDT 
Email Davidseon
vertical line

Satori, Enlightenment,  is discovering the how the mind realy works.  It is not stillness,  one must use it as mindfullness, wheather working ,sitting, or just observing.  What  is the by-product of Enlightenment?  Nirvana.   What is Nirvana?  Nirvana is the ability to recognise everything as being a product of the mind and so enables one to put everything down. 

Two monks were walking down a muddy road in China.  The elder monk noticed a lady dressed in all her finery, trying to cross the road.  The elder monk picked the lady up and carried her across the road.   On their way back to the monestry,  the older monk noticed that the younger monk was aggitated.  The elder monk asked, "  whats wrong, you seem upset?"  The younger monk replied, "  You touched a women,  thats against the rules of our monestary!"  The elder monk replied,  "  I merely picked her up and put her down,  You are still carrying her!"

vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 70878
horizontal line
 
horizontal line
Reply from kelvintan
May.08.2007
07:10AM EDT 
Email kelvintan
vertical line Quote: "

Satori, Enlightenment,  is discovering the how the mind realy works.  It is not stillness,  one must use it as mindfullness, wheather working ,sitting, or just observing.  What  is the by-product of Enlightenment?  Nirvana.   What is Nirvana?  Nirvana is the ability to recognise everything as being a product of the mind and so enables one to put everything down. 

Two monks were walking down a muddy road in China.  The elder monk noticed a lady dressed in all her finery, trying to cross the road.  The elder monk picked the lady up and carried her across the road.   On their way back to the monestry,  the older monk noticed that the younger monk was aggitated.  The elder monk asked, "  whats wrong, you seem upset?"  The younger monk replied, "  You touched a women,  thats against the rules of our monestary!"  The elder monk replied,  "  I merely picked her up and put her down,  You are still carrying her!"

"
.........

"
.........

Hi Bro

Discover A Very Interesting Description Showing Enlightenment On Nirvana

 

“Disciples, there is a realm in which there is neither earth nor water, fire nor air; not endless space, infinite consciousness, nor nothingness; not perceptions nor non perceptions. In it there is neither this world nor another, neither sun nor moon. I call it neither a coming nor a going nor a standing still; not death, nor birth; it is without basis, change, or stability. Disciples, it is the end of sorrow.

 

For that which clings to another there is retrogression, but where there is no clinging there is no retrogression. Where no retrogression exists calm exists, and where there is calm there is no obsessive desire. Where obsessive desire is absent, there is neither coming nor going, and where coming and going have ended there is no death, no birth; where death and birth do not exist there is neither this life nor an afterlife, nor any in between – it is, disciples, the end of suffering.

 

Yet there is an Unoriginated, Unborn, Uncreated, Unformed. If this Unoriginated, Unborn, Uncreated, Unformed did not exist, there would be no liberation for whatever is originated, born, created, and formed. But since there is an Unoriginated, Unborn, Uncreated, Unformed, liberation is possible for whatever is originated, born created, and formed.”

With Metta To All

vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 70880
horizontal line
 
horizontal line
Reply from Woodsman
May.08.2007
08:37AM EDT 
Email Woodsman
vertical line wow?
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 70881
horizontal line
 
horizontal line
Reply from ______
May.08.2007
12:08PM EDT 
vertical line unbelievable - repeat chorus
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 70884
horizontal line
 
horizontal line
Reply from Avisitor
Jun.17.2012
01:16AM EDT 
Email Avisitor
vertical line From the silence .. comes attention and intent


Still a work in progress
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 138867
horizontal line
 
horizontal line
Reply from starduster
Jun.17.2012
05:16AM EDT 
vertical line Quote: "I would say its a square of dark chocolate but here is another opinion

Satori

Satori (? Japanese satori; Chinese: wù - from the verb Satoru) is a Japanese Buddhist term for enlightenment. The word literally means "to understand". It is sometimes loosely used interchangeably with Kensho, but Kensho refers to the first perception of the Buddha-Nature or True-Nature, sometimes referred to as "awakening". Kensho is not a permanent state of enlightenment, but rather a clear glimpse of the true nature of creation. Satori on the other hand refers to "deep" or lasting enlightenment. According to D. T. Suzuki, "Satori is the raison d'etre of Zen, without which Zen is no Zen. Therefore every contrivance, disciplinary and doctrinal, is directed towards satori."[1] Satori can be found in every moment of life, it is wrapped in all daily activities, its goal to unwrap them to see satori.

As an analogy, we may think of a baby when it first walks. After much effort, it stands upright, finds its balance and walks a few steps (kensho), then falls. After continued effort the child will one day find that it is able to walk all the time (satori).

Once the True-Nature has been seen, it is customary to use satori when referring to the enlightenment of the Buddha and the Patriarchs, as their enlightenment was permanent.

The Zen Buddhist experience commonly recognizes enlightenment as a transitory thing in life, almost synonymous with the English term epiphany, and satori is the realization of a state of epiphanic enlightenment. Because all things are transitory according to Zen philosophy, however, the transitory nature of satori is not regarded as limiting in the way that a transitory epiphany would be in Western understandings of enlightenment.

DT Suzuki writes that "Samadhi alone is not enough, you must come out of that state, be awakened from it, and that awakening is Prajna. That movement of coming out of samadhi, and seeing it for what it is, that is satori" [2]

The transitory nature of satori, as opposed to the more enduring Nirvana that is sought in the Buddhist traditions of India, owes much to Taoist influences on Chán Buddhism in China, from which Zen Buddhism of Japan evolved. Taoism is a mystical philosophy that emphasizes the purity of the moment, whereas the Hindu roots of Indian Buddhism lend a longer view toward escaping the Karmic prison of perpetual reincarnation in the material world.[1]



"
.........



"
.........

"
.........

Understanding how and why *Things as It is* is gramatically correct is the wisdom acquired in Satori, Nirvana, Kensho, or Awakening.  No permanence is implied or required, yet each plane of existence contains its own parameters, which may or may not include time and space, eternity and infinity, within things as it is.

Seeing is believing.  If you find yourself in the Void, even for an instant, then you will consider yourself to be awakened, and even if you are wrong, totally deluded, you will still believe what you have seen, and no matter otherwise.  It leaves no doubt because there is nothing left to doubt.  Nothing left but nothingness.  Not even nothing, which is in itself a something.  Nothing left at all.

vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 138869
horizontal line
 
horizontal line
Reply from so_teh
Jun.17.2012
05:07PM EDT 
Email so_teh
vertical line Jhana is utterly silent and still. Yet it is subject to "Quakes." Those quakes are Satori. Once it settles it settles into Suchness or Reality as it is. It's a letting go of conditioning.
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 138879
horizontal line
 
horizontal line
Reply from Woodsman
Jun.17.2012
05:39PM EDT 
Email Woodsman
vertical line Where words stop and we find meaning in bird songs the connection is being made.

When we fast our every breath takes in the surroundings and sends the message out, " am here . "
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 138880
horizontal line
 
horizontal line
Reply from starduster
Jun.18.2012
07:16AM EDT 
vertical line

Quote: "Jhana is utterly silent and still. Yet it is subject to "Quakes." Those quakes are Satori. Once it settles it settles into Suchness or Reality as it is. It's a letting go of conditioning. "
.........

Im reminded of the Desiderata, which begins with

*Go placidly amid the noise and haste, and remember what peace there may be in silence....*

I have it hanging on my wall at home, and so rarely pause to read it.

vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 138886
horizontal line
 
Back To Topic List   Go to Top of Page

 



SUPPORT ZENGUIDE.COM
If you are planning on purchasing any product from amazon.com, you can help us out by using the search box to the right or by clicking on this link to begin shopping.


Purchase posters, art prints, media (music CD & DVD)

buy this BUDDHA
by Unknown
Puchase this Item
More Art Prints & Media
Zen & Buddhism books
 
 
d
.
i
.
s
.
c
.
u
.
s
.
s
.
i
.
o
.
n
.

.
f
.
o
.
r
.
u
.
m
.
Copyright © 1999 - 2014 zenguide.com - All rights reserved. °