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  Subhuti was Buddha's disciple. He was able to understand the potency of emptiness, that nothing exists except in its relationship of subjectivity and objectivity. One day, in a mood of sublime emptiness, Subhuti was resting underneath a tree... continue...

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→→→→ vertical line TOPIC: ON KILLING
vertical line Posted on Jun.12.2007 @ 04:27PM EDT by Woodsman
It really is not good to end any life, or to deny one's part in the killing of God.
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Reply from Lynnoh
Jun.12.2007
04:46PM EDT 
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vertical line this morning reading Katagiri Roshi, he spoke of killing, but I did not understand it so well
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Reply from Woodsman
Jun.12.2007
05:28PM EDT 
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vertical line Killing, is seeing no value, in any other being, so that equality cannot exist. One exist as an opposite force, a negative imbalance, in which questions never are allowed to rise up, for they are killed, denied, without any questions as to why. We come to limit the possible, what is possible, in every moment to open to acceptance. Every breath has life, a conscious drive, a force of no opposites, as one cannot oppose the wind, or the truth, any other.

So, in life, who we are, in relationship to each other, requires balance, and some doing without. One may use silence, or ritual, to die to what kills equality. Being passive, opens us up, to the realization, the connection to life, living through all, giving to all life back it's balance.
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Reply from ______
Jun.12.2007
06:07PM EDT 
vertical line There was and is a man who taught the art of making fire. And still he gets killed for it.
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Reply from Woodsman
Jun.12.2007
06:20PM EDT 
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vertical line The fire, has a source, which is cherished, if not obstructed by greed or fear. Can be seen at all times, in all places. The fire is a giving tree.
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Reply from ______
Jun.12.2007
06:24PM EDT 
vertical line If you and me knew me and you better - two things: you and me would see that I am is on fire and you would also see that I am very often wrong.
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Reply from Lynnoh
Jun.12.2007
08:12PM EDT 
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vertical line what is it to conceptualize?
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Reply from shayne
Jun.12.2007
09:09PM EDT 
Email shayne
vertical line you people make no sense.
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Reply from koanhead
Jun.13.2007
08:13AM EDT 
vertical line Neither does zen
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Reply from HarryB
Jun.13.2007
08:20AM EDT 
vertical line Zen doesn't make no sense, because it makes nonsense for a reason.

Regards,

Harry.
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Reply from Woodsman
Jun.13.2007
09:53AM EDT 
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vertical line quiet
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Reply from -----0
Jun.13.2007
10:42AM EDT 
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Quote: "Killing, is seeing no value, in any other being, so that equality cannot exist. One exist as an opposite force, a negative imbalance, in which questions never are allowed to rise up, for they are killed, denied, without any questions as to why. We come to limit the possible, what is possible, in every moment to open to acceptance. Every breath has life, a conscious drive, a force of no opposites, as one cannot oppose the wind, or the truth, any other.

So, in life, who we are, in relationship to each other, requires balance, and some doing without. One may use silence, or ritual, to die to what kills equality. Being passive, opens us up, to the realization, the connection to life, living through all, giving to all life back it's balance.
"
.........

could you say it in one line, please? and a short one

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Reply from Woodsman
Jun.13.2007
10:53AM EDT 
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vertical line Okay, I'm asleep.
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Reply from Lynnoh
Jun.13.2007
10:58AM EDT 
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vertical line how do you know?
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Reply from -----0
Jun.13.2007
11:02AM EDT 
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Quote: "Okay, I'm asleep. "
.........

are you dreaming of that killing stuff then?

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Reply from Lynnoh
Jun.13.2007
11:04AM EDT 
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vertical line here comes the pinch
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Reply from stephen
Jun.13.2007
11:22AM EDT 
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vertical line Some time, some place I decided to listen. It could be enough to say that the Buddha suggested that we not kill. Has to killing God I did not even know the dude. I might have killed the sheriff but I did not shot the deputy. MU
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Reply from Woodsman
Jun.13.2007
01:46PM EDT 
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vertical line Quote: "

Quote: "Okay, I'm asleep. "
.........

are you dreaming of that killing stuff then?

"
.........

If I remembered my dream, I would say I was out in the garden, killing weeds, for starters.
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Reply from Woodsman
Jun.13.2007
01:49PM EDT 
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vertical line Quote: "Some time, some place I decided to listen. It could be enough to say that the Buddha suggested that we not kill. Has to killing God I did not even know the dude. I might have killed the sheriff but I did not shot the deputy. MU"
.........

Die to the flesh, alive in the spirit. Happy fast!
OM (left out the G) the sky is talking. It, is, so clear.
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Reply from Woodsman
Jun.13.2007
02:00PM EDT 
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vertical line I think my pride is swelling. Ahhhh....
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Reply from ______
Jun.13.2007
02:46PM EDT 
vertical line Quote: "Some time, some place I decided to listen. It could be enough to say that the Buddha suggested that we not kill. Has to killing God I did not even know the dude. I might have killed the sheriff but I did not shot the deputy. MU"
.........

When you do listen, agreement and/or disagreement will cease to be an issue for you. pop pop, bang bang.
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Reply from Woodsman
Jun.14.2007
12:37PM EDT 
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vertical line I can't...
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Reply from Woodsman
Jun.14.2007
12:43PM EDT 
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vertical line One more milligram of Morphine Sulfate and it's immortal guiltless bliss... I'm not pushin' it... oh no...
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Reply from ______
Jun.15.2007
08:39AM EDT 
vertical line When Shakyamuni Buddha says, "Don't kill." He isn't 'suggesting' that you don't kill, or telling you not to kill, (acting as if that is the case is to be looking outside oneself for answers, justifications, validations, to be looking outward for happiness). Neither is he commanding or ordering you not to kill. He isn't telling you to conform to his ideas, to a set of beliefs, or rules, in a moralistic way. He is showing you Shakyamuni's Buddha nature - our Buddha nature. The precepts (teaching) are Buddha's mind. In accepting and living them, there is no illusion of separation from others.

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Reply from ______
Jun.15.2007
08:50AM EDT 
vertical line That's what Jesus and me says, anyway. ok?
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Reply from ______
Jun.15.2007
08:53AM EDT 
vertical line Should that be Jesus and I? Or me and Jesus? hmmm....which is the more grammatically correct of the three? Am I beeeee ing rude?
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Reply from Woodsman
Jun.15.2007
11:28AM EDT 
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vertical line First insect saved... today, a tiger swallow-tail butterfly, trapped in the shed. I heard the flutter on the window from outside, came in to see what it was. Cupped him up in my hands and opened the door. Beautifully shaped, perfection, and he just sat on my had, held out to the open sky, for like 2 minutes. Then flew away, free, over the top of the house.

And I let the raccoon go too. Now I have to work on the fence around the garden, again, and fix the hole in the garage soffit.

But, I still had eggs and sausage for breakfast.
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Reply from ______
Jun.15.2007
01:13PM EDT 
vertical line Jesus got it distilled down to just the one with another.
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Reply from Woodsman
Jun.15.2007
06:04PM EDT 
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vertical line A horse fly! Right there next to the garage door, on the floor! Freedom!
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Reply from fatnhappy
Jun.17.2007
11:44PM EDT 
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vertical line Quote: "A horse fly! Right there next to the garage door, on the floor! Freedom! "
.........yeah freedom .................until he smelled your underware . do your laundry
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Reply from lehish
Jun.18.2007
08:25AM EDT 
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Quote: "Quote: " .........yeah freedom .................until he smelled your underware "

.........

lol

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Reply from Woodsman
Jun.18.2007
01:21PM EDT 
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vertical line freedom, once he smelled it. Shit is reincarnation to a fly.
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Reply from Woodsman
Jun.18.2007
01:37PM EDT 
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vertical line What is that smell?
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Reply from Woodsman
Jun.18.2007
01:39PM EDT 
Email Woodsman
vertical line , she thought. Though, the question wasn't it.
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Reply from lehish
Jun.18.2007
02:28PM EDT 
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Quote: "freedom, once he smelled it. Shit is reincarnation to a fly. "
.........

lol

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Reply from lehish
Jun.18.2007
02:30PM EDT 
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Quote: ",Though, the question wasn't it. "
.........

yp

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Reply from Woodsman
Jun.18.2007
04:43PM EDT 
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vertical line Oh no, I is right, like a thought.
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Reply from lehish
Jun.18.2007
06:06PM EDT 
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vertical line thought that from "yp"?
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Reply from Woodsman
Jun.18.2007
08:40PM EDT 
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vertical line Quote: "thought that from "yp"?"
.........

np
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Reply from lehish
Jun.18.2007
08:55PM EDT 
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vertical line hehehe
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Reply from Woodsman
Jun.18.2007
09:41PM EDT 
Email Woodsman
vertical line She laughs when I leave something out.
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Reply from lehish
Jun.18.2007
10:24PM EDT 
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vertical line hehe
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Reply from Woodsman
Jun.18.2007
10:46PM EDT 
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vertical line Less when I don't know it.
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Reply from Woodsman
Jun.18.2007
11:55PM EDT 
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vertical line see?
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Reply from ______
Jun.20.2007
09:53AM EDT 
vertical line Sausage shapes. But without hair. And with fronds, frondly.
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Reply from justin
Jun.20.2007
10:46AM EDT 
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I myself do not know if killing is right or wrong (is there a right or wrong and who’s right or wrong am I talking about?) Do I actually exist as me to be thinking about as me killing? Anyway…..For this discussion I have thought long and am becoming aware of a particular hypocrisy, most people I have asked have said no they would not kill, and these same most after further questions admitted yes they would kill, some to defend or revenge family members some to defend or revenge their country some for religion. So it would seem if people answer honestly they would make the decision to kill the only difference would appear to be the motive the reason. This does not mean they would actually carry out the believed murder, however they believe in theory they would. So now if I was to cut away the stuff to get to the core it would seem belief is the key and how strongly and for what.

 

Ok, that said there are books out there which delve into the psychiatry of killing and the general consensus is that most people would be pushed to the point where they might kill in the heat of the moment for theirs or others self preservation, however it is later when things have calmed down that they might regret or find that decision hard to live with (talk to a war veteran) it is also suggested that the people best able to cope with killing (and death) are those with a strong conviction, irrespective of where that conviction comes from, they believe it was the right or only thing to do in the circumstances.

 

Therefore if killing or the decision to kill is only that, a decision. Whose decision is right? And if it is only a decision based upon particular thoughts or beliefs which are generally in tern created from someone’s place of birth, education, and access to systems of religion etc. If one reason is valid why is not another what is the difference? Which of us do not kill everyday for food (vegetable or animal) the very space we take up on Earth denies it to something else. I guess now we are at another argument: If as Buddha says there is no birth or dying no beginning or end how can we kill anything? Now suffering, this would seem possible therefore the killing of something with suffering causes ourselves to suffer or by killing we have caused another to suffer, does this mean as long as it is quick and painless it is all right? Or does the belief that I may have caused suffering cause me to suffer, and therefore the greatest reason not to kill. Therefore empathy towards an illusion is the greatest reason not to inflict suffering to another illusion?? And whose empathy, whose particular belief set is the standard of empathy? On on on on on on are there any real answers to these sorts of questions?

As to the original post on killing God, whose God yours or mine? I am not sure i know God or what he might or might not want. There are many people out there killing many who say they are doing Gods work do i know better? And finally does not the christian God have a right hand mate who weilds a flaming sword and fights Gods battles at request of God?

What would i know.....

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Reply from Woodsman
Jun.20.2007
08:07PM EDT 
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vertical line I think words killed my interest in them. Buddha never said anything about that... how could he? Oh yeah, this is Zen now, not  Zen then.
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Reply from justin
Jun.21.2007
01:37PM EDT 
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Zen then Zen now is there a difference? If so what? In particular relation to the post. I see the point you make about Budha never saying anything (at least I think I do, as far as I am able) and I have often wondered about the budha raft we use to cross the metaphorical river (discarded at the edge, although there is no edge) and I only use it as common ground for discussion. The reference I use comes from the diamond sutra. This is not in any way a challenge (or intended as one) mearly a request for more information.

Anyway how are the rabbit(s), which you once mentioned, a couple of years ago woods? I do not remember the details however I do remember being touched.

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Reply from justin
Jun.21.2007
01:48PM EDT 
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 or were they chipmonks ?

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Reply from ______
Jun.21.2007
01:53PM EDT 
vertical line Nope, monkeys. With the occasional squirrel. As lunch, for the monkeys.
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Reply from Woodsman
Jun.21.2007
02:13PM EDT 
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vertical line Quote: "

Zen then Zen now is there a difference? If so what? In particular relation to the post. I see the point you make about Budha never saying anything (at least I think I do, as far as I am able) and I have often wondered about the budha raft we use to cross the metaphorical river (discarded at the edge, although there is no edge) and I only use it as common ground for discussion. The reference I use comes from the diamond sutra. This is not in any way a challenge (or intended as one) mearly a request for more information.

Anyway how are the rabbit(s), which you once mentioned, a couple of years ago woods? I do not remember the details however I do remember being touched.

"
.........

There are 9 currently... no, wait an minute... 11 (forgot the two bucks) I try and give them away, as pets. Just doubled the hutch size recently. And the garden has been doubled in size too.  I'm not sure which followed which, or which was first, doesn't matter. I've got to make a free rabbit sign for the road, right next free wood sign, aaahhh, maybe. I'm no saint yet.

Raccoons are gone, improved the fencing, and stopped feeding the birds.

Second mama robin is building a nest on top of the utility box, the chicks inside the nest above the basketball hoop somehow perished.

Snakes are in the strawberry  patch.

Bluebird came back to her house behind the garden, pushed out the swallow.

And I just got back from walking the dogs and got bitten by a deer fly behind my left ear. How do I know it was a deer fly? You don't want to know.
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Reply from justin
Jun.21.2007
02:17PM EDT 
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 Thanks mate, now that is beautiul smilingly, griningly beautiful and something which makes perfect sense.

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Reply from ______
Jun.21.2007
03:07PM EDT 
vertical line Maybe, but maybe not to the rabbits.
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Reply from Woodsman
Jun.21.2007
03:55PM EDT 
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vertical line They don't seem to have the same problem with deer flies.
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Reply from Woodsman
Jun.21.2007
04:43PM EDT 
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vertical line But both seem to require me to feed them.
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