history principles practice stories, books, media discussion forum organizations resources
zenguide.com logo
 
Friday Oct 24 2014 08:45AM ET
º login º register º email º guestbook º printer friendly
grey dot
  Suiwo, the disciple of Hakuin, was a good teacher. On a certain day a certain pupil came to him, and Suiwo gave him the problem, "Hear the sound of one hand." The pupil remained three years, but could not pass the test. One night he came... continue...

z
.
e
.
n
menu left history menu spacer principles menu spacer practice menu spacer zen media menu spacer discussion forum menu spacer organization directory menu spacer resources  
login
  DISCUSSION FORUM
» topic list   » start a new topic   » my tracked topics   » view topic
grey dot

horizontal line
→→→→ vertical line TOPIC: BLAH
vertical line Posted on Jul.06.2007 @ 03:55PM EDT by fatnhappy
Blah blah blah ....blah. Blah blah blah....blah bub bluby blah blub blah blooey blah blah...hahahaha .blah blaH BLAH 
Go to Latest Reply   Reply to this Topic   Email fatnhappy
horizontal line
 
horizontal line
Reply from fatnhappy
Jul.06.2007
05:07PM EDT 
Email fatnhappy
vertical line yep thats about right .......
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 72649
horizontal line
 
horizontal line
Reply from fatnhappy
Jul.06.2007
07:50PM EDT 
Email fatnhappy
vertical line yeh your right ....it doesn't really matter ....
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 72656
horizontal line
 
horizontal line
Reply from lehish
Jul.06.2007
09:30PM EDT 
Email lehish
vertical line

Quote: "yeh your right ....it doesn't really matter .... "
.........

hehehe

vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 72657
horizontal line
 
horizontal line
Reply from Lynnoh
Jul.06.2007
10:35PM EDT 
Email Lynnoh
vertical line but Lehished laughed...
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 72658
horizontal line
 
horizontal line
Reply from Woodsman
Jul.06.2007
10:41PM EDT 
Email Woodsman
vertical line She was laughing for you. Go ahead, laugh for her. Here, I will... heehhhh?
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 72659
horizontal line
 
horizontal line
Reply from Woodsman
Jul.06.2007
10:44PM EDT 
Email Woodsman
vertical line heehhhh? sounds weird with a deep voice, and the high range would just not be proper
I must be British tonight. Oooohhaaa!!! Where's my napkin?
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 72660
horizontal line
 
horizontal line
Reply from ______
Jul.07.2007
07:39AM EDT 
vertical line You wiped your 'ass' with it. hoohah!
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 72665
horizontal line
 
horizontal line
Reply from ______
Jul.07.2007
08:05AM EDT 
vertical line Tell the fatman of your intentions (he struggles with understanding and needs to know) - whether they are destructive, constructive, reconstructive, unconstructive...and so provide him with the opportuntity to think and believe that he can destroy the moment and waste your life.

Show the relish (hehehe hahahaha...did imagining garnishing sandwiching?), what is as if.

Take the stiff's guiding hand - but wear thermal-gloves.

They are sworn to do their utmost (you can read their mission statement elsewhere), to ensure that your passageway is smooth, lubricated and safe. Fear not the mighty dread of your troubled minds but keep your eyes fixed on the zenguider dharma police because they will tell you when it's time to land, how and where. Have a happy one (nnnnnnnnn...plop), and thank you for choosing to fly zenguide.
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 72666
horizontal line
 
horizontal line
Reply from fatnhappy
Jul.07.2007
01:40PM EDT 
Email fatnhappy
vertical line Blah blah bluey blah ......blah blah . Blah blah bla. blah bubby blllllllahhhhh bla .blut blip blit blob .blicker blooky . But you expected that didnt you . Its ok your expectations matter not either . Dont kid yourself your part of the police as well . Thanks for choosing the sarcastic shit train .Have a wonderful day .  
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 72674
horizontal line
 
horizontal line
Reply from ______
Jul.07.2007
02:01PM EDT 
vertical line cyber-dump
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 72675
horizontal line
 
horizontal line
Reply from fatnhappy
Jul.07.2007
03:19PM EDT 
Email fatnhappy
vertical line Blah.
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 72676
horizontal line
 
horizontal line
Reply from ______
Jul.07.2007
06:40PM EDT 
vertical line I didn't expect that...you could've had: 'blip blit blob .blicker blooky'...then wash your handie pandies.
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 72678
horizontal line
 
horizontal line
Reply from fatnhappy
Jul.07.2007
09:12PM EDT 
Email fatnhappy
vertical line learn nothing and live long .
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 72684
horizontal line
 
horizontal line
Reply from fatnhappy
Jul.08.2007
01:14PM EDT 
Email fatnhappy
vertical line creamy acorn squash soup with toasted Pepito's .

Polenta with blue cheese and grilled portobello mushroom

strawberry short cake with sweet biscuit and fresh whipped cream


vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 72691
horizontal line
 
horizontal line
Reply from ______
Jul.08.2007
01:40PM EDT 
vertical line Bon App├ętit!
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 72693
horizontal line
 
horizontal line
Reply from Woodsman
Jul.08.2007
03:30PM EDT 
Email Woodsman
vertical line Mountains of shit, piled up everywhere! I'm goin' in to find that toy pony! And with eye contact no less. Wwoooaahhh!!!! ssssssssssssssssssssssss_______________
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 72697
horizontal line
 
horizontal line
Reply from fatnhappy
Jul.09.2007
01:31AM EDT 
Email fatnhappy
vertical line each to there own I guess 
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 72712
horizontal line
 
horizontal line
Reply from Woodsman
Jul.09.2007
02:15PM EDT 
Email Woodsman
vertical line There is no right in being wronged.
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 72720
horizontal line
 
horizontal line
Reply from fatnhappy
Jul.09.2007
05:33PM EDT 
Email fatnhappy
vertical line many have said that right before pulling the trigger 
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 72729
horizontal line
 
horizontal line
Reply from fatnhappy
Jul.09.2007
07:29PM EDT 
Email fatnhappy
vertical line on second thought ...what the hell am I talking about and for what end..........
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 72730
horizontal line
 
horizontal line
Reply from Woodsman
Jul.09.2007
08:40PM EDT 
Email Woodsman
vertical line To free those bound in suffering?
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 72733
horizontal line
 
horizontal line
Reply from fatnhappy
Jul.09.2007
08:43PM EDT 
Email fatnhappy
vertical line oh yeah thanx for reminding me 
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 72735
horizontal line
 
horizontal line
Reply from Woodsman
Jul.09.2007
08:46PM EDT 
Email Woodsman
vertical line No, that was my answer. I don't know what you are doing.
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 72737
horizontal line
 
horizontal line
Reply from Woodsman
Jul.09.2007
08:49PM EDT 
Email Woodsman
vertical line hmmm, must have worked
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 72738
horizontal line
 
horizontal line
Reply from fatnhappy
Jul.09.2007
10:41PM EDT 
Email fatnhappy
vertical line sorry that stupid ego keeps getting in the way 
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 72743
horizontal line
 
horizontal line
Reply from Woodsman
Jul.09.2007
10:56PM EDT 
Email Woodsman
vertical line that makes two of them, yours and mine, us and them, this and that, to be or not to be... see? If you say, "yes", that makes one ego out of us, with no other answers after that.

so, don't say anything and the egos disappear

I'll have the starving ego diet, please.  ;{ )
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 72744
horizontal line
 
horizontal line
Reply from fatnhappy
Jul.10.2007
12:37AM EDT 
Email fatnhappy
vertical line with out it there would be no forum .........dont tell my ego what to do : )
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 72746
horizontal line
 
horizontal line
Reply from ______
Jul.10.2007
07:11AM EDT 
vertical line Let me know when you're ready for the real conversation.
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 72748
horizontal line
 
horizontal line
Reply from ______
Jul.10.2007
09:30AM EDT 
vertical line Yeah I know. Not on this board, not in this life.
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 72754
horizontal line
 
horizontal line
Reply from lehish
Jul.10.2007
02:23PM EDT 
Email lehish
vertical line

Quote: "Yeah I know. Not on this board, not in this life. "
.........

'real' conversation?

vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 72775
horizontal line
 
horizontal line
Reply from lehish
Jul.10.2007
02:25PM EDT 
Email lehish
vertical line was responsing  "Let me know when you're ready for the real conversation."
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 72777
horizontal line
 
horizontal line
Reply from ______
Jul.10.2007
02:26PM EDT 
vertical line Yeah that's what I was told, I think. Some real conversation. As opposed to the other, I suppose. I dunno. Anyway, all very entertaining.
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 72778
horizontal line
 
horizontal line
Reply from ______
Jul.10.2007
02:33PM EDT 
vertical line What shall we talk about?
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 72779
horizontal line
 
horizontal line
Reply from lehish
Jul.10.2007
02:59PM EDT 
Email lehish
vertical line

Quote: "What shall we talk about?"
.........

"about" is "real conversation"? ;)

vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 72781
horizontal line
 
horizontal line
Reply from ______
Jul.10.2007
03:14PM EDT 
vertical line Now you're talking.
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 72782
horizontal line
 
horizontal line
Reply from lehish
Jul.10.2007
05:41PM EDT 
Email lehish
vertical line hehe
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 72783
horizontal line
 
horizontal line
Reply from zbishak
Jul.10.2007
06:07PM EDT 
Email zbishak
vertical line hello leshish,
couldn't hear the laughter over the noise i was making listening,
was wondering why the smile,
on this crusty old head.
:-)
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 72784
horizontal line
 
horizontal line
Reply from 77 zen ror
Jul.10.2007
08:24PM EDT 
Email 77 zen ror
vertical line Talk about LOVE LOVE SWEET LOVE.
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 72787
horizontal line
 
horizontal line
Reply from Woodsman
Jul.10.2007
11:32PM EDT 
Email Woodsman
vertical line Talk? Put your lips together. One hand nestled inside the other, like petals of an opening  red rose. Look inward, like sunshine entering a locked room from above my eyes.
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 72792
horizontal line
 
horizontal line
Reply from lehish
Jul.10.2007
11:49PM EDT 
Email lehish
vertical line

Quote: "hello leshish,
couldn't hear the laughter over the noise i was making listening,
was wondering why the smile,
on this crusty old head.
:-)
"
.........

helloing bshish
could splashshing water on crustying
gasshsho
;)

vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 72793
horizontal line
 
horizontal line
Reply from ______
Jul.11.2007
07:18AM EDT 
vertical line That's it. Let God do the talking.
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 72795
horizontal line
 
horizontal line
Reply from ______
Jul.11.2007
07:20AM EDT 
vertical line Word-up! With Jesus.
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 72796
horizontal line
 
horizontal line
Reply from sceptic
Jul.11.2007
09:04AM EDT 
vertical line

Quote: "That's it. Let God do the talking. "
.........

But, why would the Flying Spaghetti Monster give us the gift of speech if neither he, nor his noodley offspring, want us to speak to each other? Maybe it's so we can pray and make ill people on the other side of the world more sick.

Ah, his noodley greatness works in mysterious ways does it not? 

vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 72801
horizontal line
 
horizontal line
Reply from ______
Jul.11.2007
09:21AM EDT 
vertical line Oh to be sure, nightmare, nightmare is what it is, pasta man, nightmare.
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 72802
horizontal line
 
horizontal line
Reply from jjanin
Jul.12.2007
03:39AM EDT 
Email jjanin
vertical line Quote: "That's it. Let God do the talking. "


.......
Who is God?
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 72830
horizontal line
 
horizontal line
Reply from justin
Jul.12.2007
05:50AM EDT 
Email justin
vertical line

 jjanin,

 You are!  Who else could be? (at least your entireity, is a part of God) i do not mean any particular God as is named and boxed up in any particular religion but the universe as a whole. But whats in a name anyway (just check out some of the posts here we all name much)

vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 72831
horizontal line
 
horizontal line
Reply from ______
Jul.12.2007
07:02AM EDT 
vertical line Quote: "Quote: "That's it. Let God do the talking. "


.......
Who is God?
"
.........

The one doing the talking, (in context, naturally).
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 72832
horizontal line
 
horizontal line
Reply from ______
Jul.12.2007
07:03AM EDT 
vertical line Word-up!
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 72833
horizontal line
 
horizontal line
Reply from sceptic
Jul.12.2007
07:47AM EDT 
vertical line

Supposing there were life on another planet, billions of light years away from us, and there is no reason to think this is impossible, would God talk to them?

Isn't it more than a little egocentric to think a God so powerful that he can create something as infinitely massive as the universe would bother to talk to us. Unless of course he didn't create the universe. If he didn't though, there doesn't seem to be much point in him at all.

What was he saying here:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2007/07/01/nflood201.xml

It wouldn't be the first time this loving, caring God has punished the innocent just to make a point. Can't the miraculous one be a bit more discerning with his punishment? A lightning bolt might be more discriminating than a flood.

vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 72837
horizontal line
 
horizontal line
Reply from ______
Jul.12.2007
07:50AM EDT 
vertical line What is it that leads you to think that 'let God do the talking' implies an anthropocentric view of the universe? Arrogance?
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 72838
horizontal line
 
horizontal line
Reply from sceptic
Jul.12.2007
07:53AM EDT 
vertical line The idea of God is anthropocentric.
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 72839
horizontal line
 
horizontal line
Reply from ______
Jul.12.2007
07:55AM EDT 
vertical line Your idea of God clearly is.
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 72840
horizontal line
 
horizontal line
Reply from sceptic
Jul.12.2007
08:05AM EDT 
vertical line That is the God that the Christian church talks about. The God of the bible. The vindictive and mean God 'Jahweh'. I know there are other interpretations.
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 72841
horizontal line
 
horizontal line
Reply from sceptic
Jul.12.2007
08:10AM EDT 
vertical line I don't have an idea of God because he doesn't exist.
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 72842
horizontal line
 
horizontal line
Reply from ______
Jul.12.2007
10:10AM EDT 
vertical line That's one of the funniest fabrications I've ever read on this board. Is it philosophy, or science, or neither either both or neither?
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 72843
horizontal line
 
horizontal line
Reply from sceptic
Jul.12.2007
02:18PM EDT 
vertical line It is evidence based scepticism. There is absolutely no evidence for God. I was raised in a Christian country, but I do not believe in a Christian God, nor any other. I could reject the Christian God and accept another, but there is no evidence for any type of supernatural being.That is what I mean when I say I have no idea of God.

Everybody rejects all other arguments about God except their own. Atheists just go one step further.

What is funny is that people just accept what they have been told. It's hard to be a critical thinker and many people can't be bothered.

I don't accept any form of woo-woo nonsense that there is no proof of. God, 'psychics', fairies, supplements, complementary and alternative medicines (SCAM medicines) - all these ideas that people just accept because they have been told to. It's really quite sad. I heard on the radio today that sales of Echinacea are soaring in the UK because of that BS meta-analysis that came out a couple of weeks ago. It was reported in the media that it was a new study that proved it worked. It wasn't a new study. It was a meta-analysis of old studys that were poorly designed and didn't prove a thing. People will believe anything. Echinacea doesn't work and God doesn't exist. When people start thinking rationally the world will be a better and safer place to live.
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 72846
horizontal line
 
horizontal line
Reply from ______
Jul.12.2007
03:09PM EDT 
vertical line Your 'reasoning' is flawed. You say "the world will be a better and safer place to live (when people start thinking rationally", but safer for whom, safer for what? You complain that an "idea of God" is anthropocentric while setting yourself at the centre of any ideas of what it means to live in a safe[r] world. Example: science hasn't made the world safer for other non-human species, animals, has it? To some, science is a religion, that employs a kind of aimless rational thinking that thinks up newer and better ways to inflict cruelty on other non-human sentient beings in the quest for cheaper food, medicines and cosmetics. And wasn't it a rational thinking mind which developed the atomic bomb, and other thermo-nuclear devices, the neutron bomb, et al?
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 72847
horizontal line
 
horizontal line
Reply from ______
Jul.12.2007
03:24PM EDT 
vertical line First you say that mind is created by the brain. And you seem to be saying that, for you, another name for mind is soul. This appears to be consciousness, being awake - of which there are many different levels - see the philosophy of science. Then you ask what happens to mind and soul when the brain becomes diseased? Religion is then introduced into the equation 'because it has no answers'. Answers to what? You say we will get there, wherever that is, by studying the brain. Get where? What answers does science have for you? Although lions don't wake up people in comas, you advise that one should study neuroscience. Why?
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 72848
horizontal line
 
horizontal line
Reply from Woodsman
Jul.12.2007
06:07PM EDT 
Email Woodsman
vertical line How dare he say that about Echinacea! Did is spell it aright? Just put God in there, either or will do. Well heck, they're pretty!
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 72849
horizontal line
 
horizontal line
Reply from ______
Jul.12.2007
06:41PM EDT 
vertical line Neither is it 'evidence based sceptism'. And is it logical? Or did you not mean to use the word "because" when you stated that you have 'no idea of God because he does not exist'? You seem to be saying that the effect of the existence of God will cause there to be an "idea" of God - if God exists, you say, you would have an idea of God. Because you don't have an idea of God, he doesn't exist. However, you previously indicated that you accept there is this idea of God, which you go on to identify with a name, an idea that you say is open to an "interpretation". Therefore by your own reasoning God does indeed exist. It merely appears that you yourself have no idea that you have no idea.

All this from your reading of the word "God". It's interesting, how you seem to be using an inverted ontological argument to assert the primacy of science over God in your questioning of the validity of so-called proofs for the existence of God. Intellectually, we can contribute to the mass of ontological argument for the existence of God or develop an elegant rebuttal, we can use logic to prove that black is white, if necessary. But whatever position we take, whether we accept what we are told or not, the intellect will never know whether God exists.

Oh and it depends on what type (species) of echinacea is used and in which way it is prepared.
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 72850
horizontal line
 
horizontal line
Reply from shayne
Jul.12.2007
09:28PM EDT 
Email shayne
vertical line god is an idea. their is no evidance. now jesus is real. but he believed in god. we are talking what created the universe from the very beginining. a question that is unreachable. this is a question of faith. you beleive because their is no recourse. this is the cherished way of doing things. i personally wont.
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 72851
horizontal line
 
horizontal line
Reply from fatnhappy
Jul.13.2007
02:17AM EDT 
Email fatnhappy
vertical line human minds pondering human ideas 
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 72853
horizontal line
 
horizontal line
Reply from Woodsman
Jul.13.2007
09:55AM EDT 
Email Woodsman
vertical line beats steppin' in shit, except for shaynee, he like doin' that.
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 72854
horizontal line
 
horizontal line
Reply from ______
Jul.13.2007
11:11AM EDT 
vertical line Ah, and I here add: Not all professed believers in God or adherents of monotheistic or pantheistic religions, especially not all Christians, believe in the literal truth of Old Testament stories such as Noah and the flood, or believe that Adam and Eve hung out with dinosaurs, or agree with fundamentalism in any of its forms, or take seriously the pronouncements of Anglican bishops calling on the wrath of God to punish evildoers. Truly sceptic integrity would not make such rash generalisations. To realize a direct encounter with what is termed 'God' does not, in any way, preclude that person from the intellectual or the independent or a discerning sceptism - on the contrary. Simone Weil, intelligent, intellectual, independent, recognised as one of the greatest thinkers and intellectuals of the 20th century was a mystic - a woman who encountered the love which is God, directly. A fiercely charitable follwer of Christ, she refused to be baptised into the Christian church but saw herself as always the bridge, the intersection between the Christian and non-Christian. To many, including myself, she is the equivalent of an unofficial patron saint of outsiders, followers, friends, brothers and sisters, to Jesus The Outsider.

Perhaps someone should start a thread on Simone Weil.
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 72856
horizontal line
 
horizontal line
Reply from sceptic
Jul.13.2007
01:41PM EDT 
vertical line Quote: "First you say that mind is created by the brain. And you seem to be saying that, for you, another name for mind is soul. This appears to be consciousness, being awake - of which there are many different levels - see the philosophy of science. Then you ask what happens to mind and soul when the brain becomes diseased? Religion is then introduced into the equation 'because it has no answers'. Answers to what? You say we will get there, wherever that is, by studying the brain. Get where? What answers does science have for you? Although lions don't wake up people in comas, you advise that one should study neuroscience. Why? "
.........

I do not think the mind and the soul are the same thing. Indeed, I don't believe in the soul. The mind is created by the brain. The big question is how does organic matter give rise to non-organic thoughts. That is what neuroscience will ultimately discover. That is where we will get. In fact, it is already possible to induce various sensations using precisely administered minute electric shocks with microelctrodes. The part of the brain that makes us feel like we are inside our own bodies has been identified. If this area is stimulated, then we feel like we are floating outside our bodies. Out of body experiences? It seems clear that as we discover more and more of theses areas, and work out how they interact, then we will be much closer to understanding that subjective experience that is 'consciousness;

The problem is finding a way to study this on a mass scale. The techniques to study the billions of neurons that the CNS is constantly using are beyond us at the moment. Perhaps, in the not too distant future, we will have computers powerful enough to have artificial intelligence. That will give us much more insight than we currently have. What I don't doubt is that these problems are solvable.

I wasn't saying that being bitten by a lion would wake you up from a coma. You were talking about how some aneasthetic drugs do not provide anelgesia. Anesthesia is not the same as being in a coma.
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 72858
horizontal line
 
horizontal line
Reply from sceptic
Jul.13.2007
02:02PM EDT 
vertical line Quote: "Your 'reasoning' is flawed. You say "the world will be a better and safer place to live (when people start thinking rationally", but safer for whom, safer for what? You complain that an "idea of God" is anthropocentric while setting yourself at the centre of any ideas of what it means to live in a safe[r] world. Example: science hasn't made the world safer for other non-human species, animals, has it? To some, science is a religion, that employs a kind of aimless rational thinking that thinks up newer and better ways to inflict cruelty on other non-human sentient beings in the quest for cheaper food, medicines and cosmetics. And wasn't it a rational thinking mind which developed the atomic bomb, and other thermo-nuclear devices, the neutron bomb, et al? "
.........

The idea of God is deeply anthropocentric. It is a teleological idea. People believe in God because they think everyting has to have a purpose, but why? It seems much more likely that we are just here because we are the end result of a series of events. We weren't created by God. If we were, what was he doing for such a long time before we got here? The Earth is 4.5 billions years old. Even the first primates only came into existence about 85 million years ago. Us Homo-Sapiens have been around for what? 250 000 years? It took God a long time to create us didn't it? That is why it is an anthropocentric idea. We think we are so important that we have our own personal God who listens to, and answers our prayers. Well we aren't that important. We are nothing in terms of the universe.

Science is not a religion. It is a system of testing ideas against evidence. That's it. It doesn't provide all the answers, but it's the best system we've got and it beats religion hands-down. One by one, religious ideas are being disproved, and now God seems to have very little reason for existing at all. He didn't create the universe (This one or any other), he didn't create the Earth, he didn't create life. So, what is he for?

Of course science has made the world safer for non-human animals. You use vets don't you? If you were dying and I gave you a drug that would allow you to live and I said, 'I did test this on an animal', would you take it? I don't know, but most people would. We are anthropocentric after all.

Yes, science did create nuclear weapons. So what? We were killing each other with stone axes long before that. Are you against all technology? Perhaps you think stone axes were a step too far. Perhaps you think we should only use our hands as tools.

Religion has killed many times more people than nuclear weapons have. In fact, nuclear weapons have only been used twice, and it could be argued that when they were, they actually saved lives. That's open to debate, but whatever the answer, there have been thousands of religious wars resulting in the deaths of millions.
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 72859
horizontal line
 
horizontal line
Reply from sceptic
Jul.13.2007
02:18PM EDT 
vertical line Quote: "Neither is it 'evidence based sceptism'. And is it logical? Or did you not mean to use the word "because" when you stated that you have 'no idea of God because he does not exist'? You seem to be saying that the effect of the existence of God will cause there to be an "idea" of God - if God exists, you say, you would have an idea of God. Because you don't have an idea of God, he doesn't exist. However, you previously indicated that you accept there is this idea of God, which you go on to identify with a name, an idea that you say is open to an "interpretation". Therefore by your own reasoning God does indeed exist. It merely appears that you yourself have no idea that you have no idea.

All this from your reading of the word "God". It's interesting, how you seem to be using an inverted ontological argument to assert the primacy of science over God in your questioning of the validity of so-called proofs for the existence of God. Intellectually, we can contribute to the mass of ontological argument for the existence of God or develop an elegant rebuttal, we can use logic to prove that black is white, if necessary. But whatever position we take, whether we accept what we are told or not, the intellect will never know whether God exists.

Oh and it depends on what type (species) of echinacea is used and in which way it is prepared.
"
.........

I have many ideas about what God could be, but none of them are falsifiable. There is no evidence for any of them, Therefore, no one idea can take precedence over another. It is more logical to say, there is no evidence of God therefore he doesn't exist, or at least it is extremely unlikely.

The ontological argument is just laughable and I won't even bother to contribute to that meaningless argument.

No, we can never know if God exists or not, but we can hazard a pretty good guess. Like I have said, there is no point in the existence of God, so why should he exist?

Isn't that the problem with herbal medicines? It is impossible to say if they work because no-one has bothered to test them properly. If you need a certain type of Echinacea, and it needs to be prepared in a certain way, then why not isolate the active ingredient and turn it into a medicine? Then everyone would be getting the proper dosage and it would be safe. At the moment, you don't know what you're taking. There are no safety standards, no regulation on what dosage is given and no evidence that it works. It's just a rip-off. As for Echinacea, are you aware that it was never used traditionally as a cold medicine? That was just made up by some German guy who wanted to make a quick profit. Also, a cure for a cold is just highly unlikely. There isn't one cold virus, there are hundreds, so it would have to be effective against hundreds of different viruses. You could say it boosts the immune system, but that is nonsense. You cannot boost the immune system. Echinacea has been shown to produce an immune response in the test tube, but you would expect that because it is a foreign substance. That's what the immune system does, it reacts to foreign substances. It doesn't appear to have much of an effect inside the body though.

vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 72860
horizontal line
 
horizontal line
Reply from sceptic
Jul.13.2007
02:21PM EDT 
vertical line Quote: "Ah, and I here add: Not all professed believers in God or adherents of monotheistic or pantheistic religions, especially not all Christians, believe in the literal truth of Old Testament stories such as Noah and the flood, or believe that Adam and Eve hung out with dinosaurs, or agree with fundamentalism in any of its forms, or take seriously the pronouncements of Anglican bishops calling on the wrath of God to punish evildoers. Truly sceptic integrity would not make such rash generalisations. To realize a direct encounter with what is termed 'God' does not, in any way, preclude that person from the intellectual or the independent or a discerning sceptism - on the contrary. Simone Weil, intelligent, intellectual, independent, recognised as one of the greatest thinkers and intellectuals of the 20th century was a mystic - a woman who encountered the love which is God, directly. A fiercely charitable follwer of Christ, she refused to be baptised into the Christian church but saw herself as always the bridge, the intersection between the Christian and non-Christian. To many, including myself, she is the equivalent of an unofficial patron saint of outsiders, followers, friends, brothers and sisters, to Jesus The Outsider.

Perhaps someone should start a thread on Simone Weil.
"
.........

The argument from personal experience. Not good evidence. The 'love of God' is a delusion. The brain  is very complex and capable of fooling us in many different ways.
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 72861
horizontal line
 
horizontal line
Reply from ______
Jul.13.2007
02:51PM EDT 
vertical line Ah ok, no, it wasn't me who made the anaesthesia post. I butted in on that one.

The idea of God is an idea. I'm not interested in defending 'religion' over science - religion masks the face of God and both label the mystery. Your perspective (looking at human time from a present vantage point back over recorded history), assumes that 'creation' or birth of a species is akin to a magician pulling rabbits out of hats - an understanding of time as a linear progression. But linear time is an illusion - it isn't 'real' - as far as the eternal is concerned, the 'now' of 250,000 years ago is the same 'now' as this now, is the same genesis of now.
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 72862
horizontal line
 
horizontal line
Reply from ______
Jul.13.2007
02:55PM EDT 
vertical line All totalitarian political systems are rational. Rationalism has not made the world a safer or better place for non-human animals. I know, I see the evidence - I work for an animal welfare organisation. To say that the world is safer for non-human animals because of veterinary care is ridiculously stupid - like your inverted ontology. The factory farming of animals for meat, vivisection for cosmetics, for medicines, is not a better, safer world for these animals.
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 72863
horizontal line
 
horizontal line
Reply from Woodsman
Jul.13.2007
05:13PM EDT 
Email Woodsman
vertical line Step in God.
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 72866
horizontal line
 
horizontal line
Reply from Woodsman
Jul.13.2007
06:07PM EDT 
Email Woodsman
vertical line And God does, if allowed. As does everything in, around, under, over, behind, before, after a time.
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 72867
horizontal line
 
horizontal line
Reply from fatnhappy
Jul.13.2007
06:46PM EDT 
Email fatnhappy
vertical line human mind + insecurity  +  nessesity to control large groups of monkies = religion 
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 72868
horizontal line
 
horizontal line
Reply from Woodsman
Jul.13.2007
06:51PM EDT 
Email Woodsman
vertical line Wordless  =  worthless.  In the eyes of any one and all to see, the blind shall see God.
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 72872
horizontal line
 
horizontal line
Reply from shayne
Jul.14.2007
02:12AM EDT 
Email shayne
vertical line

Well i wouldnt say the person is small in comparison to the universe. a person is a microuniverse compared to the macroverse. and i dont nessacarily dont believe in god johny. im saying...their is no evidance. its not the same. well see when we all die. and your wording and short phrases wont make me change my mind.

as far as their is no soul. let me repeat a message.

when i lived with my mother i had a out of body experience. i opened doors and everything. she was freaked out for days. i remember it vividly. furthermore..........i wasnt a believer in the soul. i fiqured we just went back to prebirth for eternity. now i do believe in the soul.

vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 72873
horizontal line
 
horizontal line
Reply from ______
Jul.14.2007
06:01AM EDT 
vertical line I have no desire or need to 'prove the existence of God'. If I had that need it would be an irrational one.

Thinking rationally is necessary - there is nothing wrong, per se with 'rationally' - nothing wrong with thinking. But I do not subscribe to the view that: "When people start thinking rationally the world will be a better and safer place to live." To believe that is irrational.

Irrespective of how many times nuclear weapons have been used, I say that their presence in the world has not contributed to making the world a better and safer place to live.

I'm not particularly interested in the numbers game and wouldn't know how one would make the calculations in order to prove that "religion has killed more people than science". Religion or science - it's people who kill people.

I do not subscribe to the view that the world has been made a better and safer place for non-human animals because of the rational thinking of humans. The opposite is the case. To believe otherwise is irrational.

Religion won't 'save' you or the world and neither will science. To look to science for 'answers' is irrational.


vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 72874
horizontal line
 
horizontal line
Reply from fatnhappy
Jul.14.2007
07:00AM EDT 
Email fatnhappy
vertical line god is a human idea 
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 72875
horizontal line
 
horizontal line
Reply from ______
Jul.14.2007
07:28AM EDT 
vertical line human is a god idea
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 72877
horizontal line
 
horizontal line
Reply from Woodsman
Jul.14.2007
10:06AM EDT 
Email Woodsman
vertical line shaynee was a god idea?
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 72878
horizontal line
 
horizontal line
Reply from Woodsman
Jul.14.2007
10:17AM EDT 
Email Woodsman
vertical line Quote: "

Well i wouldn't say the person is small in comparison to the universe. a person is a microcosm compared to the macrocosm and i don't necessarily believe in god johnny. I'm saying...their is no evidence. its not the same. we'll see when we all die. (an afterlifee?) and your wording and short phrases wont make me change my mind. (no shayner, you will, or God will, just stop, no?)

as far as there is no soul. let me repeat a message.(approved by johnny)

when i lived with my mother i opened doors and everything. she was freaked out for days. i remember it vividly. furthermore..........i wasn't a believer in the soul. i figured we just went  a priori for eternity. now i do believe in the soul, and heck when I opened those windows it was just like letting God in ! I mean, I couldn't control it !.

"
.........
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 72879
horizontal line
 
horizontal line
Reply from Woodsman
Jul.14.2007
06:44PM EDT 
Email Woodsman
vertical line Are we talkin' about God? Is anyone?
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 72883
horizontal line
 
horizontal line
Reply from shayne
Jul.15.2007
05:44AM EDT 
Email shayne
vertical line

your a basketcase johny. i mean that in a good way though. hahaha.

ok let talk about god.

vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 72891
horizontal line
 
horizontal line
Reply from ______
Jul.15.2007
07:59AM EDT 
vertical line With the brains that God gave us, let us prove the existence of Fools. On second thoughts, forget about the us, let the brains do it.

Then, let us prove that 'mind' is the same for all sentient beings and that all sentient beings share the same laws of mind (physics), and further, that there is a universal awareness in this Mind and that therefore, this Mind fulfills all criteria for being everywhere at one and the same time in space (ie beyond the infinite), all knowing (yes knowsitall, lot, there is nothing it don't know), all powerful (and weak at the same time).
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 72892
horizontal line
 
horizontal line
Reply from ______
Jul.15.2007
08:03AM EDT 
vertical line Then let us give it a name.

Then we will know that our minds are a universal-knowledge without sense.

Make sense?
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 72893
horizontal line
 
horizontal line
Reply from ______
Jul.15.2007
08:18AM EDT 
vertical line Then there is the female orgasm. Yes, I mean, what more proof for the existence of God do you need?
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 72894
horizontal line
 
horizontal line
Reply from ______
Jul.15.2007
08:38AM EDT 
vertical line Then, yes, and then and what else? Then, then....oh look, is that the time?
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 72895
horizontal line
 
horizontal line
Reply from Woodsman
Jul.15.2007
10:11AM EDT 
Email Woodsman
vertical line Let's talk about experiencing God. You first.
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 72896
horizontal line
 
horizontal line
Reply from Woodsman
Jul.15.2007
10:33AM EDT 
Email Woodsman
vertical line but just the recent stuff, like this morning, ok ok, you firsteeeeeeee.......
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 72899
horizontal line
 
horizontal line
Reply from ______
Jul.15.2007
10:57AM EDT 
vertical line nah

I used to be able to take that herbal remedy aspirin, that used to work, for headaches, until I became allergic.
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 72900
horizontal line
 
horizontal line
Reply from Woodsman
Jul.15.2007
10:58AM EDT 
Email Woodsman
vertical line and?
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 72901
horizontal line
 
horizontal line
Reply from ______
Jul.15.2007
11:00AM EDT 
vertical line that's it, no ands
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 72902
horizontal line
 
horizontal line
Reply from Woodsman
Jul.15.2007
11:55AM EDT 
Email Woodsman
vertical line OM G?
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 72903
horizontal line
 
horizontal line
Reply from Lynnoh
Jul.15.2007
12:50PM EDT 
Email Lynnoh
vertical line blah...blah...blah... gave it away
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 72906
horizontal line
 
horizontal line
Reply from ______
Jul.15.2007
02:12PM EDT 
vertical line OM G? ?
Did it? Gave what away? What's on your minds? Step right up and get it off your breasts. You want to know what you had for breakfast? Just ask!
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 72909
horizontal line
 
horizontal line
Reply from fatnhappy
Jul.15.2007
02:15PM EDT 
Email fatnhappy
vertical line Quote: "human is a god idea"
......... most commonly refers to the deity worshipped by followers of monotheistic and monolatrist religions, whom they believe to be the creator and ruler of the universe.[1]

Theologians have ascribed a variety of attributes to the various conceptions of God. The most common among these include omniscience, omnipotence, omnipresence, perfect goodness, divine simplicity, and eternal and necessary existence. God has also been conceived as being incorporeal, a personal being, the source of all moral obligation, and the "greatest conceivable existent".[1] These attributes were all supported to varying degrees by the early Jewish, Christian and Muslim theologian philosophers, including Augustine of Hippo,[2] Al-Ghazali,[3] and Maimonides.[2] Many notable medieval philosophers developed arguments for the existence of God,[4] attempting to wrestle with the apparent contradictions implied by many of these attributes. Philosophers have developed several arguments for and against the existence of God.

vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 72910
horizontal line
 
horizontal line
Reply from fatnhappy
Jul.15.2007
02:18PM EDT 
Email fatnhappy
vertical line Quote: "Quote: "human is a god idea"
......... most commonly refers to the deity worshipped by followers of monotheistic and monolatrist religions, whom they believe to be the creator and ruler of the universe.[1]

Theologians have ascribed a variety of attributes to the various conceptions of God. The most common among these include omniscience, omnipotence, omnipresence, perfect goodness, divine simplicity, and eternal and necessary existence. God has also been conceived as being incorporeal, a personal being, the source of all moral obligation, and the "greatest conceivable existent".[1] These attributes were all supported to varying degrees by the early Jewish, Christian and Muslim theologian philosophers, including Augustine of Hippo,[2] Al-Ghazali,[3] and Maimonides.[2] Many notable medieval philosophers developed arguments for the existence of God,[4] attempting to wrestle with the apparent contradictions implied by many of these attributes. Philosophers have developed several arguments for and against the existence of God.

"
.........dongt worry there all words nothing more than human ideas . My cat has no concept of God .
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 72911
horizontal line
 
horizontal line
Reply from ______
Jul.15.2007
02:19PM EDT 
vertical line Y AUM!
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 72912
horizontal line
 
horizontal line
Reply from ______
Jul.15.2007
02:22PM EDT 
vertical line Who's worried? Your cat? Well, no because you don't have a cat. The cat has you.
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 72913
horizontal line
 
horizontal line
Reply from ______
Jul.15.2007
02:26PM EDT 
vertical line Worry doesn't come into it, when you temple, when you cat .
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 72914
horizontal line
 
horizontal line
Reply from ______
Jul.15.2007
02:37PM EDT 
vertical line AAAaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaarrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrgggggggggggggggghhhhhhhhhhh I don't care about being bothered about worries and about proofs. I ask for bread; I am given bread; I receive bread. Not stones. That's it. Ask the cat, follow the example of cat, do what the cat does, do what the cat says.
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 72915
horizontal line
 
horizontal line
Reply from Woodsman
Jul.15.2007
04:10PM EDT 
Email Woodsman
vertical line he's pusst
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 72916
horizontal line
 
horizontal line
Reply from ______
Jul.15.2007
05:19PM EDT 
vertical line Who he? The cat's bollocks? Still looking for your napkin? Think man, think!
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 72923
horizontal line
 
horizontal line
Reply from ______
Jul.15.2007
05:27PM EDT 
vertical line Gadzooks, can really it be truly true that one doze contemplate the conceptual theory, the very idea of the plate, before and/or during and/or after one eats one's very dinner orf of it?
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 72924
horizontal line
 
horizontal line
Reply from Woodsman
Jul.15.2007
08:55PM EDT 
Email Woodsman
vertical line I'm blank, and it feels so good. Believe me, though I'm not Jesus. Heal!

Nope, nothin'.
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 72925
horizontal line
 
horizontal line
Reply from ______
Jul.16.2007
09:09AM EDT 
vertical line ok blank, so you're afflicted, whoopee, feel good today, feel bad today, what's your point? So what? Care to explain what you are actually pretending to talk about?
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 72927
horizontal line
 
horizontal line
Reply from Lynnoh
Jul.16.2007
12:39PM EDT 
Email Lynnoh
vertical line

Quote: "OM G? ?
Did it? Gave what away? What's on your minds? Step right up and get it off your breasts. You want to know what you had for breakfast? Just ask!
"
.........

why would I ask ? I already know.

vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 72935
horizontal line
 
horizontal line
Reply from Lynnoh
Jul.16.2007
12:41PM EDT 
Email Lynnoh
vertical line Quote: "Quote: "Quote: "human is a god idea"
......... most commonly refers to the deity worshipped by followers of monotheistic and monolatrist religions, whom they believe to be the creator and ruler of the universe.[1]

Theologians have ascribed a variety of attributes to the various conceptions of God. The most common among these include omniscience, omnipotence, omnipresence, perfect goodness, divine simplicity, and eternal and necessary existence. God has also been conceived as being incorporeal, a personal being, the source of all moral obligation, and the "greatest conceivable existent".[1] These attributes were all supported to varying degrees by the early Jewish, Christian and Muslim theologian philosophers, including Augustine of Hippo,[2] Al-Ghazali,[3] and Maimonides.[2] Many notable medieval philosophers developed arguments for the existence of God,[4] attempting to wrestle with the apparent contradictions implied by many of these attributes. Philosophers have developed several arguments for and against the existence of God.

"
.........dongt worry there all words nothing more than human ideas . My cat has no concept of God .
"
.........

"
.........dongt worry there all words nothing more than human ideas . My cat has no concept of God .
"
.........

I called my father an omipresence once..in a story

vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 72936
horizontal line
 
horizontal line
Reply from Lynnoh
Jul.16.2007
12:41PM EDT 
Email Lynnoh
vertical line

Quote: "Who's worried? Your cat? Well, no because you don't have a cat. The cat has you. "
.........

whoa...I just did

vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 72937
horizontal line
 
horizontal line
Reply from Lynnoh
Jul.16.2007
12:45PM EDT 
Email Lynnoh
vertical line hmm..
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 72938
horizontal line
 
horizontal line
Reply from sceptic
Jul.19.2007
08:37AM EDT 
vertical line

Quote: "With the brains that God gave us, let us prove the existence of Fools. On second thoughts, forget about the us, let the brains do it.

Then, let us prove that 'mind' is the same for all sentient beings and that all sentient beings share the same laws of mind (physics), and further, that there is a universal awareness in this Mind and that therefore, this Mind fulfills all criteria for being everywhere at one and the same time in space (ie beyond the infinite), all knowing (yes knowsitall, lot, there is nothing it don't know), all powerful (and weak at the same time).
"
.........

When you say the 'brains that God gave us', presumably you are referring to the brains he gave to fish 450 million years ago, since our brains are merely evolved from their's. God did not create our brains, at least as they are now. This we know; it is fact.

I don't think mind can be considered to be the same for all sentient beings. Human brains are much more complicated than even a chimp's brain. Having said that, chimps are pretty clever and have been shown to be able to communicate with each other and humans and have been observed using tools. It makes you wonder why we are the chosen ones. Why is it humans who God has decided to pay special attention to?

When you say 'universal awareness in this Mind' it sounds as though you are saying there is a collective unconsious like Jung thought. This is rubbish of course. Jung is not respected by anybody in psychiatry or in science generally. He wasn't a scientist, he just made all that stuff up. Anyway, you are making assumptions about what the mind is that we have no way of knowing at the moment. I don't know, but I seriously doubt, that the mind will be found to fulfill the 'criteria for being everywhere at one and the same time in space' etc. because this would break the laws of physics.

It is usually about this stage in the debate that The True Believers begin to talk about quantum mechanics, but this is not valid since quantum mechanics only operates at the atomic and sub-atomic level and is not observable at the macroscopic level.

So, you're argument is flawed. You can't just say we will discover this about the mind and that will validate my opinion. You can make assumptions based on current knowledge, but there is nothing to suggest that any of what you say is even possible. It is generally accepted by people who study the brain that consciousness is created by the brain. It is the result of the activity of neurons. It is neuronal activity that enables you to sense the world and to orientate yourself in the world. The brain is responsible for memories, emotions, beliefs, personality and anything else you can think of that makes up consciousness. We know this because people who have lesions in certain brain areas lose some aspect of their consciousness. Take the case of Clive Wearing (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clive_Wearing). He lost virtually all conscious thought due to brain damage, yet he can still play the piano. This, and many other cases, show that different parts of the brain are responsible for different processes as well as proving that the brain is responsible for consciousness.

How then, without breaking any of the physical laws of the universe, do you propose that our minds are a universal-knowledge without sense?

vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 72978
horizontal line
 
horizontal line
Reply from sceptic
Jul.19.2007
09:59AM EDT 
vertical line

Quote: "I have no desire or need to 'prove the existence of God'. If I had that need it would be an irrational one.

Thinking rationally is necessary - there is nothing wrong, per se with 'rationally' - nothing wrong with thinking. But I do not subscribe to the view that: "When people start thinking rationally the world will be a better and safer place to live." To believe that is irrational.

Irrespective of how many times nuclear weapons have been used, I say that their presence in the world has not contributed to making the world a better and safer place to live.

I'm not particularly interested in the numbers game and wouldn't know how one would make the calculations in order to prove that "religion has killed more people than science". Religion or science - it's people who kill people.

I do not subscribe to the view that the world has been made a better and safer place for non-human animals because of the rational thinking of humans. The opposite is the case. To believe otherwise is irrational.

Religion won't 'save' you or the world and neither will science. To look to science for 'answers' is irrational.


"
.........

'if you want to do evil, science provides the most powerful weapons to do evil; but equally, if you want to do good, science puts into your hands the most powerful tools to do so. ' Richard Dawkins.

 

vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 72979
horizontal line
 
horizontal line
Reply from ______
Jul.19.2007
12:18PM EDT 
vertical line Yes, that's right. That's the point of the 'us'. The amoeba, the fish;, the amhibians, et al: I am the metaphor. I am the fish. God doesn't work as your particular brain supposes - neither a cloudy emotion nor a rational proof. Nor is this God a person acting from an 'outside' to create and direct the world, tinkering away like a mechanic, or even as this cartoon character visiting hellfire and damnation on the unbeliever. Sorry, but that isn't it. It's possibly beyond your experience but even 'your' brain has no local existence of its own.
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 72980
horizontal line
 
horizontal line
Reply from ______
Jul.19.2007
01:01PM EDT 
vertical line I'm not sure how long in linear time it took for the amoeba (one of my many benefactors), to evolve into the fish but if it's proof you're after, then look no further, I'm it, tapping away at these keys looking at this screen. It's thanks, in part, to the amoeba, that I am not that caricature of a creationist, that I understand satire, appreciate irony and have a tongue that I can rest firmly in my cheesecake.
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 72981
horizontal line
 
horizontal line
Reply from lehish
Jul.19.2007
06:22PM EDT 
Email lehish
vertical line

Quote: "and have a tongue that I can rest firmly in my cheesecake."
.........

hehe

vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 72982
horizontal line
 
horizontal line
Reply from ______
Jul.20.2007
06:31PM EDT 
vertical line strawberry
crackers
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 72993
horizontal line
 
horizontal line
Reply from lehish
Jul.20.2007
10:50PM EDT 
Email lehish
vertical line

frozen
grapes 

vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 72998
horizontal line
 
horizontal line
Reply from lehish
Jul.20.2007
10:52PM EDT 
Email lehish
vertical line is summering
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 72999
horizontal line
 
horizontal line
Reply from sceptic
Jul.27.2007
08:49AM EDT 
vertical line

Quote: "Yes, that's right. That's the point of the 'us'. The amoeba, the fish;, the amhibians, et al: I am the metaphor. I am the fish. God doesn't work as your particular brain supposes - neither a cloudy emotion nor a rational proof. Nor is this God a person acting from an 'outside' to create and direct the world, tinkering away like a mechanic, or even as this cartoon character visiting hellfire and damnation on the unbeliever. Sorry, but that isn't it. It's possibly beyond your experience but even 'your' brain has no local existence of its own. "
.........

My brain exists locally inside my skull. I know because if it wasn't there my body would be a senseless, lifeless corpse.

I have 100 billion neurons, each synapsing with a thousand other neurons. These numbers are vast. I wonder what the point is in their local activity if they are merely there to facilitate some sort of higher collective consciousness? I also wonder why if I lost a few million, I would lose a vital function or two, that's if I didn't die of course.

If God isn't as he is depicted in the Bible or the Koran or the Torah then what is the ponit of those books exactly? And what's wrong with those Hindus and their preposterous polytheism? Don't they know there's only one God - and he's a jealous and vindictive one too. He sure taught those heathens the Romans a lesson when they murdered his son, or was it God himself, or are they both the same? And who's this Holy Spirit chap? I'm confused. Oh wait, that's the point isn't it?

vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 73051
horizontal line
 
horizontal line
Reply from ______
Jul.27.2007
10:26AM EDT 
vertical line Duh! er

"No [sceptics] have any answers. They just think they do.

Get out now [while there's still time, local and linear chronologically er like] and live in the real world [that you made] - the universe is much more beautiful and amazing than any [sceptic] ever imagined or ever told us"....Doh!!
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 73052
horizontal line
 
horizontal line
Reply from dervbo
Jul.28.2007
02:36PM EDT 
Email dervbo
vertical line

"I have 100 billion neurons, each synapsing with a thousand other neurons. These numbers are vast. I wonder what the point is in their local activity if they are merely there to facilitate some sort of higher collective consciousness? I also wonder why if I lost a few million, I would lose a vital function or two, that's if I didn't die of course. "

To percieve...

vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 73088
horizontal line
 
horizontal line
Reply from ______
Jul.29.2007
07:40AM EDT 
vertical line ...to wonder...
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 73089
horizontal line
 
Back To Topic List   Go to Top of Page

 



SUPPORT ZENGUIDE.COM
If you are planning on purchasing any product from amazon.com, you can help us out by using the search box to the right or by clicking on this link to begin shopping.


Purchase posters, art prints, media (music CD & DVD)

buy this ZEN 1
by Atelier Lzc
Puchase this Item
More Art Prints & Media
Zen & Buddhism books
 
 
d
.
i
.
s
.
c
.
u
.
s
.
s
.
i
.
o
.
n
.

.
f
.
o
.
r
.
u
.
m
.
Copyright © 1999 - 2014 zenguide.com - All rights reserved. °