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  Tri Bao was the Vietnamese Zen master of the 10th generation of the linage of Vo Ngon Thong.
When he did not realize yet the Tao, he happened meeting a Zen monk. The Zen monk asked him:
- Where did you come from when you were born,... continue...

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→→→→ vertical line TOPIC: WHAT BOTHERS US
vertical line Posted on Jul.07.2007 @ 06:49PM EDT by Woodsman
Many things bother me, for no reason, I mean, no reason that I know why.
Until I know the reason why, and let go of some of that, it begins to get at the core, of why I am here, why I am alive. It is not just to get what I want, but to accept what I do not want.

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Reply from fatnhappy
Jul.07.2007
09:11PM EDT 
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vertical line live now here . love long , anger quickly , let go soon , eat/drink well and smile often............rustic add jaded remark here   _________________. Thanx
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Reply from kelvintan
Jul.08.2007
12:00AM EDT 
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Recognize your thoughts, feelings  and perceptions as something natural without rejecting nor accepting. You experience it and let it pass.You let go of this neuronal gossip that keep you chained to the very specific ideas about who you are and what you're capable of. Advice from a young tibetan Rinpoche.

With Metta

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Reply from ______
Jul.08.2007
08:02AM EDT 
vertical line fatnappy is bothered by rustic. His nappy is fat with bother. He project his ennui outward because he think he have too much and empty nappy on rustic. fatnappy think he hurt by rustic. fatnappy think he think different from rustic but he think the same only he no realise it yet.
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Reply from Woodsman
Jul.08.2007
10:08AM EDT 
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vertical line I am saint all night long, until the end, When I was asked to get a warm washcloth, and offered to wipe... wait a minute  I just fell asleep... I chose not to accept the verbal abuse, and from a Mormon  no less. So I'm sayin' I'm a Catholic, then a Baptist, then a Buddhist, and now I don't know what I am. I'm too tired about accepting/rejecting. No, I reject.
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Reply from ______
Jul.08.2007
11:15AM EDT 
vertical line Shut up and drive.
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Reply from fatnhappy
Jul.08.2007
01:05PM EDT 
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vertical line you would'nt understand....... guess were not friends . Or maybe we are and you dont realize it yet . John keep your hands on the wheel . Hezus Cristo !
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Reply from fatnhappy
Jul.08.2007
01:09PM EDT 
Email fatnhappy
vertical line Quote: "you would'nt understand....... guess were not friends . Or maybe we are and you dont realize it yet . John keep your hands on the wheel . Hezus Cristo ! "
.........Can we get back to zennhappy please ...thanx
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 72690
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Reply from ______
Jul.08.2007
01:38PM EDT 
vertical line Ah.
Of course.
I understand.
I am a friend on whom you can rely.

"It is the time you have wasted for your rose that makes your rose so important."

~A de S E~
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Reply from Woodsman
Jul.08.2007
03:55PM EDT 
Email Woodsman
vertical line Quote: "

Recognize your thoughts, feelings  and perceptions as something natural without rejecting nor accepting. You experience it and let it pass.You let go of this neuronal gossip that keep you chained to the very specific ideas about who you are and what you're capable of. Advice from a young tibetan Rinpoche.

With Metta

"
.........

It is dinner, and I'm stuck. To eat, or not to eat?
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Reply from Woodsman
Jul.08.2007
04:42PM EDT 
Email Woodsman
vertical line So, how are you? Just realize that I will neither accept nor reject your answer.

Of course, if you say nothing, it's eyes back on the belly again.

And, it will be another good night. The dragon moves.
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Reply from kelvintan
Jul.08.2007
11:39PM EDT 
Email kelvintan
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Quote: "So, how are you? Just realize that I will neither accept nor reject your answer.

Of course, if you say nothing, it's eyes back on the belly again.

And, it will be another good night. The dragon moves.
"
.........

Hi Brother

Thank you for asking and opening your heart to others. The more mindful we are the more compassionate we become. Intention is the karma of the mind.

May U be well and happy

With Metta

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Reply from kelvintan
Jul.08.2007
11:41PM EDT 
Email kelvintan
vertical line Quote: "Quote: "

Recognize your thoughts, feelings  and perceptions as something natural without rejecting nor accepting. You experience it and let it pass.You let go of this neuronal gossip that keep you chained to the very specific ideas about who you are and what you're capable of. Advice from a young tibetan Rinpoche.

With Metta

"
.........

It is dinner, and I'm stuck. To eat, or not to eat?
"
.........

"
.........

It is dinner, and I'm stuck. To eat, or not to eat?
"
.........

Hi Bro,

Eat to allay your hunger.

With Metta

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Reply from ______
Jul.09.2007
07:48AM EDT 
vertical line Should I make full and open confession of my sins, will you be my friend?
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Reply from ______
Jul.09.2007
08:23AM EDT 
vertical line Intention is its own particular karma, with or without metta.
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Reply from kelvintan
Jul.09.2007
01:46PM EDT 
Email kelvintan
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Quote: "Should I make full and open confession of my sins, will you be my friend? "
.........

Hi Bro

There is no need for open confession of our sins due to our imperfections. Confess in silence. Silence is our true friend and let your conscience be the best of your guide.

You can't make friend with a clenched fist.

Take Care my friend

With Metta

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Reply from Woodsman
Jul.09.2007
02:11PM EDT 
Email Woodsman
vertical line Friendship is enlightenment for all I know, and confession is the path to get there, until you stop, and others profess your sins to you. I am wrong most of the time, and blind as to where the work needs to get going next. Selflessness requires making friends with one's shadow and one no longer projects blame outward. Each person, each thought is an extension in my capacity to love. And the silence can be deafening to all, in a good way, in that all accusation is dropped and what is left is true conversation with all, between all, in all understanding. : )
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Reply from kelvintan
Jul.09.2007
02:38PM EDT 
Email kelvintan
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Quote: "Friendship is enlightenment for all I know, and confession is the path to get there, until you stop, and others profess your sins to you. I am wrong most of the time, and blind as to where the work needs to get going next. Selflessness requires making friends with one's shadow and one no longer projects blame outward. Each person, each thought is an extension in my capacity to love. And the silence can be deafening to all, in a good way, in that all accusation is dropped and what is left is true conversation with all, between all, in all understanding. : ) "
.........

Hi Bro

One's life has value so long as one do something  for others, by mean of love, friendship, care, concern and compassion. That is what I call a superior man.

With Metta.

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Reply from Woodsman
Jul.09.2007
03:09PM EDT 
Email Woodsman
vertical line Quote: "

Quote: "Friendship is enlightenment for all I know, and confession is the path to get there, until you stop, and others profess your sins to you. I am wrong most of the time, and blind as to where the work needs to get going next. Selflessness requires making friends with one's shadow and one no longer projects blame outward. Each person, each thought is an extension in my capacity to love. And the silence can be deafening to all, in a good way, in that all accusation is dropped and what is left is true conversation with all, between all, in all understanding. : ) "
.........

Hi Bro

One's life has value so long as one do something  for others, by mean of love, friendship, care, concern and compassion. That is what I call a superior man.

With Metta.

"
.........

Hi,

And that superior way comes with the understanding of the value in suffering (no rejections), that suffering creates humility each day, in each though; being superior is a view of one's self, one's former blind selfishness, in working with that, working out each tangled thought, each phrase/phase of expression, and making the connections, reconnecting to a lost relationships to all.

This sounds pretty pompous maybe, it doesn't need to be threatening, the threat may be fear itself of letting go of one's former understanding, the value of what is reconnected with has no earthly reward, no substance of compared good and bad.

So one can sit alone, with being one's own audience, without the mechanical comparisons of a social ideal. Oh well, that's another mouthful of the same thing that I've said before, but didn't have to. peace creates more of itself : )
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Reply from ______
Jul.09.2007
03:52PM EDT 
vertical line Friendship is a miracle. Especially because it can befriend the clenched fist.

The value in suffering is to seek no remedy from it.
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Reply from kelvintan
Jul.10.2007
02:45PM EDT 
Email kelvintan
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Quote: "Friendship is a miracle. Especially because it can befriend the clenched fist.

The value in suffering is to seek no remedy from it.
"
.........

Hi Bro

The remedy of  suffering is the value of  mind that is firm and calm.

Another way to look at it.

With Metta

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Reply from ______
Jul.11.2007
07:31AM EDT 
vertical line I do not want to be a
Barren fig tree, asking for
Bread
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Reply from Woodsman
Jul.11.2007
09:56AM EDT 
Email Woodsman
vertical line breathe out, the garden, of life
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 72804
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Reply from Woodsman
Jul.11.2007
11:30AM EDT 
Email Woodsman
vertical line Everything bothers me.
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 72805
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Reply from kelvintan
Jul.11.2007
01:25PM EDT 
Email kelvintan
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Quote: "Everything bothers me. "
.........

 Hi Bro,

Whatever bothers me are habits of thought and perception ingrained in my own  mind. If I can find or locate my mind then nothing bothers me. The closest I get is that my mind is where my thoughts is.

With Metta

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Reply from sceptic
Jul.11.2007
01:45PM EDT 
vertical line Quote: "

Quote: "Everything bothers me. "
.........



 Hi Bro,




Whatever bothers me are habits of thought and perception ingrained in my own  mind. If I can find or locate my mind then nothing bothers me. The closest I get is that my mind is where my thoughts is.



With Metta

"
.........

It would be impossible to live without relying on processes of thought and perception that are by their very nature habitual. You cannot control this. If someone threw a ball at your face, You would instinctively catch it. There are thousands of these types of processes going on in your brain every second.

The mind is the product of the brain. It is not a 'mystical' concept like the soul. Descarte's ideas about dualsim have been thoroughly debunked. Mind and body are not seperate. Learn some neuroscience.

What bothers me is that people still believe in 'souls' when most of us have witnessed degenerative diseases like Alzheimer's. Where does the soul go then eh? Do you need any more proof that mind is the product of the brain? The death of neurons leads to loss of mind. How much more plain can it be?
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Reply from kelvintan
Jul.11.2007
02:13PM EDT 
Email kelvintan
vertical line Quote: "Quote: "

Quote: "Everything bothers me. "
.........



 Hi Bro,




Whatever bothers me are habits of thought and perception ingrained in my own  mind. If I can find or locate my mind then nothing bothers me. The closest I get is that my mind is where my thoughts is.



With Metta

"
.........

It would be impossible to live without relying on processes of thought and perception that are by their very nature habitual. You cannot control this. If someone threw a ball at your face, You would instinctively catch it. There are thousands of these types of processes going on in your brain every second.

The mind is the product of the brain. It is not a 'mystical' concept like the soul. Descarte's ideas about dualsim have been thoroughly debunked. Mind and body are not seperate. Learn some neuroscience.

What bothers me is that people still believe in 'souls' when most of us have witnessed degenerative diseases like Alzheimer's. Where does the soul go then eh? Do you need any more proof that mind is the product of the brain? The death of neurons leads to loss of mind. How much more plain can it be?
"
.........
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Reply from ______
Jul.11.2007
02:17PM EDT 
vertical line It's a science, not understood and inadequately rendered. To cite the existence of Alzheimer's as indicating a proof that "mind is the product of the brain" is one thing; to conflate that contention with the rhetorical question, "where does the soul go then eh?" is unscientific.
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Reply from -----0
Jul.11.2007
02:31PM EDT 
vertical line where science gives up, non-science is needed
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 72815
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Reply from kelvintan
Jul.11.2007
02:36PM EDT 
Email kelvintan
vertical line Quote: "Quote: "

Quote: "Everything bothers me. "
.........



 Hi Bro,




Whatever bothers me are habits of thought and perception ingrained in my own  mind. If I can find or locate my mind then nothing bothers me. The closest I get is that my mind is where my thoughts is.



With Metta

"
.........

It would be impossible to live without relying on processes of thought and perception that are by their very nature habitual. You cannot control this. If someone threw a ball at your face, You would instinctively catch it. There are thousands of these types of processes going on in your brain every second.

The mind is the product of the brain. It is not a 'mystical' concept like the soul. Descarte's ideas about dualsim have been thoroughly debunked. Mind and body are not seperate. Learn some neuroscience.

What bothers me is that people still believe in 'souls' when most of us have witnessed degenerative diseases like Alzheimer's. Where does the soul go then eh? Do you need any more proof that mind is the product of the brain? The death of neurons leads to loss of mind. How much more plain can it be?"
.........

"
.........

It would be impossible to live without relying on processes of thought and perception that are by their very nature habitual. You cannot control this. If someone threw a ball at your face, You would instinctively catch it. There are thousands of these types of processes going on in your brain every second.

The mind is the product of the brain. It is not a 'mystical' concept like the soul. Descarte's ideas about dualsim have been thoroughly debunked. Mind and body are not seperate. Learn some neuroscience.

What bothers me is that people still believe in 'souls' when most of us have witnessed degenerative diseases like Alzheimer's. Where does the soul go then eh? Do you need any more proof that mind is the product of the brain? The death of neurons leads to loss of mind. How much more plain can it be?
"
.........

Hi

I believe the mind controls the body.

The body does not control the mind

Ageing and death is beyond mind control

When in coma, where does the mind go?

My brother woke up from coma after 4 months

Had a major operation to remove blood clot

due blood vessel burst in his brain.

Don't remember anything when he woke up.

Remember the past but not the recent events.

He walking now like a normal human being.

Day by day he is regaining his memories back.

Now almost every bit of it.

Hope to hear views on this subject

With Metta

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Reply from -----0
Jul.11.2007
02:46PM EDT 
vertical line

Don't know about coma, but with general anesthesia there is no consciousness at all. What is really interesting is that most drugs used to produce anesthesia don't relieve pain and have to be used with other, pain relieving agents.

vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 72817
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Reply from Woodsman
Jul.11.2007
03:46PM EDT 
Email Woodsman
vertical line Quote: "Quote: "

Quote: "Everything bothers me. "
.........



 Hi Bro,




Whatever bothers me are habits of thought and perception ingrained in my own  mind. If I can find or locate my mind then nothing bothers me. The closest I get is that my mind is where my thoughts is.



With Metta

"
.........

It would be impossible to live without relying on processes of thought and perception that are by their very nature habitual. You cannot control this. If someone threw a ball at your face, You would instinctively catch it. There are thousands of these types of processes going on in your brain every second.

The mind is the product of the brain. It is not a 'mystical' concept like the soul. Descarte's ideas about dualsim have been thoroughly debunked. Mind and body are not seperate. Learn some neuroscience.

What bothers me is that people still believe in 'souls' when most of us have witnessed degenerative diseases like Alzheimer's. Where does the soul go then eh? Do you need any more proof that mind is the product of the brain? The death of neurons leads to loss of mind. How much more plain can it be?
"
.........

Ahhh... ok.
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Reply from sceptic
Jul.11.2007
03:53PM EDT 
vertical line Quote: "It's a science, not understood and inadequately rendered. To cite the existence of Alzheimer's as indicating a proof that "mind is the product of the brain" is one thing; to conflate that contention with the rhetorical question, "where does the soul go then eh?" is unscientific. "
.........

Ok, so it wasn't very scientific to say "where does the soul go then eh?". neurodegenerative diseases do provide proof that the brain is responsible for consciousness though.

I don't agree that neuroscience is is inadequately rendered. You can imagine the difficulty of studying a brain comprised of 100 billion neurons and ten times that amount of glial cells, but progress is being made. We know how neurons communicate. Brain lesions and drugs provide valuable evidence for brain function and new scanning techniques are allowing us to gain even more insight. Also, basic brain and central nervous system functions are fairly well understood. We are a long way from understanding everything about the brain, but I think we will get there one day.

Quote: "where science gives up, non-science is needed"
.........

Science doesn't give up though. That's what separates it from religion. Religion is happy to say, we can't explain that so God did it. Not only is this lazy, it's also fallacious logic - an argument from ignorance. Science is not guilty of this.

Time and again religion has been shown to be wrong through scientific endeavour. A topical example of this is the insistence of intelligent design proponents that there must have been a creator because life is too complex to have evolved. This has been proved wrong beyond any doubt. We evolved. The evidence is overwhelming, but still people can't accept it. They are guilty of the same logical fallacies. They don't understand it, so God did it.

It's quite disturbing that there are people who think the Earth is only ten thousand years old, Adam and Eve were real, people lived alongside dinosaurs and that it is feasible that Noah was able to support two of every living creature in a boat. (The noah thing is just laughable. Imagine how big his boat would have to be, And where did he keep the food? How was sanitation managed? Anyway, two of every animal is not enough to reestablish a species. There would have been too little genetic variation and they would have died out. So, he would have needed many more times that amount of animals. Yet, there are people who literally believe all this.)

Also, just because science doesn't have all the answers it doesn't mean that religion does. Religion doesn't have any answers. It's all fabrication.
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Reply from sceptic
Jul.11.2007
03:55PM EDT 
vertical line Quote: "Quote: "Quote: "

Quote: "Everything bothers me. "
.........





 Hi Bro,









Whatever bothers me are habits of thought and perception ingrained in my own  mind. If I can find or locate my mind then nothing bothers me. The closest I get is that my mind is where my thoughts is.





With Metta


"
.........

It would be impossible to live without relying on processes of thought and perception that are by their very nature habitual. You cannot control this. If someone threw a ball at your face, You would instinctively catch it. There are thousands of these types of processes going on in your brain every second.

The mind is the product of the brain. It is not a 'mystical' concept like the soul. Descarte's ideas about dualsim have been thoroughly debunked. Mind and body are not seperate. Learn some neuroscience.

What bothers me is that people still believe in 'souls' when most of us have witnessed degenerative diseases like Alzheimer's. Where does the soul go then eh? Do you need any more proof that mind is the product of the brain? The death of neurons leads to loss of mind. How much more plain can it be?"
.........

"
.........

It would be impossible to live without relying on processes of thought and perception that are by their very nature habitual. You cannot control this. If someone threw a ball at your face, You would instinctively catch it. There are thousands of these types of processes going on in your brain every second.

The mind is the product of the brain. It is not a 'mystical' concept like the soul. Descarte's ideas about dualsim have been thoroughly debunked. Mind and body are not seperate. Learn some neuroscience.

What bothers me is that people still believe in 'souls' when most of us have witnessed degenerative diseases like Alzheimer's. Where does the soul go then eh? Do you need any more proof that mind is the product of the brain? The death of neurons leads to loss of mind. How much more plain can it be?
"
.........

Hi


I believe the mind controls the body.


The body does not control the mind


Ageing and death is beyond mind control


When in coma, where does the mind go?


My brother woke up from coma after 4 months


Had a major operation to remove blood clot


due blood vessel burst in his brain.


Don't remember anything when he woke up.


Remember the past but not the recent events.


He walking now like a normal human being.


Day by day he is regaining his memories back.


Now almost every bit of it.


Hope to hear views on this subject


With Metta

"
.........

The wonders of neuroplasticity.
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Reply from sceptic
Jul.11.2007
03:58PM EDT 
vertical line Quote: "

Don't know about coma, but with general anesthesia there is no consciousness at all. What is really interesting is that most drugs used to produce anesthesia don't relieve pain and have to be used with other, pain relieving agents.


"
.........

Well, the pain response wouldn't be very useful if it didn't work when you were unconscious. You want to be able to wake up if a lion is chewing your foot off. Different neural pathways for different functions.
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Reply from boymonk
Jul.11.2007
06:18PM EDT 
vertical line Quote: "Quote: "It's all fabrication."
.........

Agreed. :)
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Reply from Woodsman
Jul.11.2007
08:17PM EDT 
Email Woodsman
vertical line This is not mine. What is?
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 72825
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Reply from Woodsman
Jul.11.2007
09:11PM EDT 
Email Woodsman
vertical line I stop thinking of things to say, or write, and look up at the sky. I don't know why, the clouds always seem to please me, they are always so beautiful.

Then I look down on the floor, as I see a spider come running across the carpet, looking for some shelter, in my bedroom. I'm not that nice, so I squish him. I was going to pick him up with a newspaper that I don't read, but he was too fast, really didn't want to go back outside I guess, easily, and I didn't have time to say a prayer, or let out an "oh shit!"; the indoor types don't bother me that bad, just got in the way, of my looking at the fuzzy clouds, which are so, above all this.

Now, as I look up again at the clouds, in my aging bliss, they aren't really all that...  fuzzy. I bet you thought I would write "beautiful". Nope. They are still beautiful, but I am not, a spider, yet, to them.


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Reply from Woodsman
Jul.11.2007
11:00PM EDT 
Email Woodsman
vertical line one one one one
one one one one one
one one one one
one one one one one
one one one one
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 72828
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Reply from Woodsman
Jul.11.2007
11:01PM EDT 
Email Woodsman
vertical line I'm in trouble, or blessed.
Could be the same nonthinking thing.
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Reply from ______
Jul.12.2007
07:06AM EDT 
vertical line The world is an egg. I am a chicken with golden wings. But the affairs of men are affairs humen and huwomen. Scientific and religious - you can't have one without the other.
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 72834
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Reply from ______
Jul.12.2007
07:13AM EDT 
vertical line Oh yes, I was the lion who chewed my own head off and then, by job, it was too too late to wake up from my coma seeing as how hungry ol' lion, tut, had started feet-first and, in a leisurely fashion, worked his way up.
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 72835
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Reply from ______
Jul.12.2007
07:18AM EDT 
vertical line Surely, I am the fire licks from the lion's tongue flickers and dances to pierce and taste the egg of the world.
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Reply from -----0
Jul.20.2007
03:09PM EDT 
vertical line

Quote: "Science doesn't give up though."
.........

science has given up already from the very beginning

- by accepting only what is logic
- by excluding all that seems irrelevant
- by using mind for excluding mind

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Reply from boymonk
Jul.20.2007
03:36PM EDT 
vertical line Quote: "

using mind for excluding mind

"
.........

That really chaffs my ass!
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Reply from ______
Jul.24.2007
11:45AM EDT 
vertical line Woodsy?
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Reply from Woodsman
Jul.24.2007
02:06PM EDT 
Email Woodsman
vertical line What?
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Reply from ______
Jul.24.2007
04:01PM EDT 
vertical line Have you ever written a letter to someone which you have then not sent?
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Reply from Woodsman
Jul.24.2007
05:17PM EDT 
Email Woodsman
vertical line Yes, I could do that.
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 73024
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