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  One day a monk paid a visit to Tinh Khong (1091-1170), a Vietnamese Zen master,
who was of the tenth generation of Vo Ngon Thong lineage, and asked:
-From old days it was talked about "direct pointing", what does that mean?
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→→→→ vertical line TOPIC: TRAPPED IN A WORKING CIRCLE
vertical line Posted on Aug.10.2007 @ 10:11AM EDT by javilapalm
Hi Everybody!

I'm a young man from the Canary Islands. I've tried many times to do zazen every day but I always leave it in a couple of weeks. Now I am really stressed with a small baby and trapped in a never ending working circle, trying to get a better job for my little family, and so on.

All the stress makes me to be always in a bad mood, even angry and the beloved persons around me are paying for it. That's not fair, and it makes me feel even worse.

I really feel that I need to do zazen, to calm my mind, at least a little, and relax. I know I have to do it but I am always tired, and I find hard to wake up earlier.

Any suggestion? Any fellow in the same situation?

Thanks and sorry about my English!

Greetings from the Canary Islands,

- Javier

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Reply from Lynnoh
Aug.10.2007
10:29AM EDT 
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vertical line greetings !!!    :)
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Reply from ______
Aug.10.2007
12:06PM EDT 
vertical line 'Trapped' is a perspective that will do violence to your blessed gifts of treasure. Awareness of the margins is a road.
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Reply from ______
Aug.10.2007
12:12PM EDT 
vertical line Have you completed a full circle? Have you seen something you have seen before?
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Reply from stephen
Aug.10.2007
12:49PM EDT 
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Do zazen every day for 2 minutes for no reason. MU

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Reply from javilapalm
Aug.10.2007
03:54PM EDT 
vertical line Quote: "Have you completed a full circle? "
.........
How could I do it?
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Reply from Woodsman
Aug.10.2007
04:46PM EDT 
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vertical line Bring mindfulness to whatever you do, whatever you feel, whatever you think, and apologize for anger, admit your stress to others around you. We each have work stress, and handle it in different ways, sometimes by acting out, reaching a point of overwhelm. That's understandable... Let your experience become your master. With every word of complaint, just watch, listen, and feel your body tense up. And in choosing to say less, begin to hear the sound of enlightenment and relax the expectation of perfection. 
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Reply from lehish
Aug.10.2007
04:59PM EDT 
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> All the stress makes me to be always in a bad mood, even angry and the beloved persons around me are paying for it. That's not fair, and it makes me feel even worse.

I really feel that I need to do zazen, to calm my mind, at least a little, and relax. I know I have to do it but I am always tired, and I find hard to wake up earlier.

Any suggestion? <

javier

  (  the suggestion is around the middle of the video:

 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mpfoh47L8iw  )

gassho

 

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Reply from kelvintan
Aug.11.2007
12:07AM EDT 
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Hi Bro,

There is no need to set aside a special time or place to meditate. If you really want to understand your mind, just watch it while it is angry. What you realised is the after effect , only after your anger has subsided. By then, words and your actions have caused the damage. The more you want to be free of the anger, the more you are not free from it. Bear in mind that thoughts and emotions are just momentary and possess no life of their own. By clinging to them, you only work yourself up. This awareness of yours can only brings new insight into life, by watching and dealing your anger, desire and ignorance as they arises. Note brother Woodsman 's advice. That will help you along the way.

Take Care

With Metta.

Kelvin Tan

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Reply from Lynnoh
Aug.11.2007
10:08AM EDT 
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vertical line greetings !
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Reply from ______
Aug.11.2007
10:23AM EDT 
vertical line salutations!
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Reply from Lynnoh
Aug.11.2007
12:04PM EDT 
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mmmmmmmmmmmmm

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Reply from Lynnoh
Aug.11.2007
12:12PM EDT 
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vertical line breathinng... what a wonderful wake up
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Reply from Woodsman
Aug.11.2007
02:04PM EDT 
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vertical line rain would do to relieve the suffering
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Reply from Woodsman
Aug.11.2007
03:03PM EDT 
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vertical line Different things please different people, and I can do my best at pleasing others, as a mule,  if that is my main capacity, but I am only so much mule, if I choose to be something else, acceptable to myself, and others, and everything within the present moment confirms this.

Others may disagree over my purpose, in posting here. So they write about it to me, here.

If my intention is to relieve suffering, I work at that, until it seems that the suffering is either relieved or adjusted to, in my being, in the other's, but that takes me well beyond myself and the needs of self-preservation which may boarder on excess sacrifice, it's unnecessary. The burden is lessened by my willingness to extend peace at all times.

Things get simplified once I lose the need to continually please myself, and competition is replaced by cooperation, and it becomes my main intent to serve others, first, right now, with present moment focus.

Harsh words are dropped, anger is dropped because it hurts, causes damage to myself, and others. I don't want there to be a separation between myself and peace, but want to live peacefully, accept all that comes, looking for the next chance to find enlightenment, there is the hard work in it, is selflessness, but then, the peace comes, and something else, a unified consciousness where things begin to come together, and purpose for suffering is established, the suffering is there to teach me to be open, without anger and rejection. There is peace beyond the suffering.
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Reply from kelvintan
Aug.11.2007
04:00PM EDT 
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Hi Bro,

You have come this far and we all need to free ourselves of preconceived perceptions of who we are. Only then true compassion will arise.  And so long as  the thought of practising compassion arise in our mind, we not not free from suffering.

Sharing yours thoughts.

With Metta

Kelvin Tan

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Reply from 77 zen ror
Aug.11.2007
04:05PM EDT 
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vertical line Stay in the moment. Go with what your heart fells. Taste the being of the day. Smile at it & greet it with love. Enjoy your path of ZEN.
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Reply from Lynnoh
Aug.11.2007
04:10PM EDT 
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has this path ever been mine?

mule?

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Reply from Woodsman
Aug.11.2007
04:27PM EDT 
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vertical line Keep good eye contact, and use first names if you can, and speak meaningfully, from your heart, but blame no none. I'm working on that One : ) :
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Reply from Woodsman
Aug.11.2007
04:29PM EDT 
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vertical line Quote: "Keep good eye contact, and use first names if you can, and speak meaningfully, from your heart, but blame no none. I'm working on that One : ) : "
.........

I think "no none" sounds better, and use humor. Smile alot, for no reason at all, and if they ask why you are smiling, just say you farted.
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Reply from 77 zen ror
Aug.11.2007
04:31PM EDT 
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vertical line Very good words my frined. Work with it.
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Reply from Woodsman
Aug.11.2007
04:33PM EDT 
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vertical line Listen for your name, and all the "thank you's".  As you turn toward enlightenment.
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Reply from kelvintan
Aug.11.2007
04:36PM EDT 
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OSHO: Anybody who gives you a belief system is your enemy.

Seeing is believing? If you want to be rich, start working on the human mind and come out with your own belief system. It always work. You can have everything you one, clothing and fine watch because you make yourself different from the rest. Mind is caught up with the external world. Try emulating Mother Theresa.

With Metta

Kelvin Tan

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Reply from lehish
Aug.11.2007
04:41PM EDT 
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vertical line :)
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Reply from lehish
Aug.11.2007
04:42PM EDT 
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vertical line gassho
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Reply from ______
Aug.11.2007
05:11PM EDT 
vertical line Light and pain. Pain because of the light; light without remorse, shadowless, where I see the hollowness of my conception of my goodness, my truth, my virtue, my generosity, my achievement - my cardboard surface self. I have no holiness of my own. Then a complete acceptance of my poverty, our poverty, and grief flows out in out as an immeasurable blessing.
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Reply from Lynnoh
Aug.11.2007
06:06PM EDT 
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Quote: "Quote: "Keep good eye contact, and use first names if you can, and speak meaningfully, from your heart, but blame no none. I&apos;m working on that One : ) : "
.........

I think "no none" sounds better, and use humor. Smile alot, for no reason at all, and if they ask why you are smiling, just say you farted.
"
.........

hahahaha

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Reply from daisho
Aug.11.2007
10:04PM EDT 
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vertical line i often have this problem myself. i'll oversleep, and have no time for my morning routine, then by the time i'm homefrom work, and the dojo, and get myself fed, i'm usually very tired.

i suggest you demand your body awake the 10 minutes early you need to prepare and practice. seems to me when my zazen is regular, my life is calm.
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Reply from Woodsman
Aug.11.2007
10:18PM EDT 
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vertical line Quote: "

OSHO: Anybody who gives you a belief system is your enemy.

Seeing is believing? If you want to be rich, start working on the human mind and come out with your own belief system. It always work. You can have everything you one, clothing and fine watch because you make yourself different from the rest. Mind is caught up with the external world. Try emulating Mother Theresa.

With Metta

Kelvin Tan

"
.........

Ahh... I am, I just have to be older, and a nun.
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Reply from Woodsman
Aug.11.2007
10:30PM EDT 
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vertical line Was Mother T. a mystic? If she wasn't, I'm having second thoughts. Can you give me a male mystic to worship?
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Reply from Woodsman
Aug.11.2007
10:34PM EDT 
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vertical line And I can't worship anybody whose first name sounds like a detergent.
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Reply from kelvintan
Aug.12.2007
01:18AM EDT 
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Quote: "Was Mother T. a mystic? If she wasn&apos;t, I&apos;m having second thoughts. Can you give me a male mystic to worship? "
.........

Hi Bro,

Belief in itself shows Selfishness

The Way to Heaven is to do good

On Earth . What the Hell is this?

 People's appetite for the Truth

Is little as they  tend to clamour

for any Cult Personality that come

Someone to count on in Believing

Start worshipping Your Non-self

NO need to look for a male Mystic

There are plenty out There.

With Metta

Kelvin Tan

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Reply from ______
Aug.12.2007
08:51AM EDT 
vertical line Who is it to disagree 'over the woodsman's purpose in posting here' unless I know what it is? Because first it's without the yolk then with the yolk and a smiling fart or a fart to make him smile. Perhaps the humour is similar to the farts in that he relishes his own while holding his nose at everyone elses.
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Reply from Woodsman
Aug.12.2007
08:52AM EDT 
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vertical line Ok, Non still sounds like something, but I gotta worship, so Non gets it... like It, or Non.
How bout if I worship It and call It Non? "Don't answer It!", Non said, or at least intimated. He's a good Non, being close to nun I guess, but without It, so no comparisons. That's It!
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Reply from Woodsman
Aug.12.2007
09:14AM EDT 
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vertical line By Jove? Is Non by him? Or is Love closer? To Non.

Dear Non,

How are you, I am fine, have you read the paper, no, why do you ask, I don't know.

Non asks questions and answers them at the same time! Right Non!
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Reply from kelvintan
Aug.12.2007
01:38PM EDT 
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Quote: 'Make the self empty'; originally there isn't any thing.' That's right, it is empty;

however, one still exists as an individual. If one, in fact, exists here and now and speaks of being 'empty, empty,' while still continuing to exist as an individual, then one is still here. One isn't empty.

"This teaching is to help people get rid of their attachments. Don't be attached to the existence of a self."

With Metta

Kelvin Tan

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Reply from ______
Aug.12.2007
02:16PM EDT 
vertical line 'be no respecter of persons'

Definitions

person
noun persons, people (plural in sense 1 also)

1. An individual human being.
Thesaurus: individual, human being, somebody, personality, mortal, soul, spirit.

2. The body, often including clothes.
Example: A ? was found hidden on his person
Thesaurus: body, physique, form, frame.

3. Grammar.
Each of the three classes into which pronouns and verb forms fall, first person denoting the speaker (or the speaker and others, eg I and we), second person the person addressed (with or without others, eg you) and third person the person(s) or thing(s) spoken of (eg she, he, it or they).

4. Christianity.
Any of the three forms or manifestations of God (Father, Son and Holy Spirit) that together form the Trinity (sense 2).
Form: Person

5. Used instead of -man, -woman, etc, to denote a specified activity or office, avoiding illegal or unnecessary discrimination on grounds of sex, eg in job advertisements. Compare chairman, chairwoman, etc.
Example: chairperson
Example: spokesperson

Idiom: be no respecter of persons
To make no allowances for rank or status.

Idiom: in person
Actually present oneself.
Example: was there in person

Doing something oneself, not asking or allowing others to do it for one.

Etymology: 13c: from French persone, from Latin persona actor's mask.


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Reply from Woodsman
Aug.12.2007
02:45PM EDT 
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vertical line Easier said than not.
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Reply from kelvintan
Aug.12.2007
05:17PM EDT 
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Quote:

O bhikkhus, when neither self nor anything pertaining to self can truly and really be found, this speculative views:

"The universe is that atman (Soul); I shall be that after death, permanent, abiding, everlasting, unchanging, and I shall exist as such for eternity" - is it not wholly and completely foolish?

(Majjhima I 138, quoted in Rahula, What the Buddha Taught 59)

With Metta

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Reply from ______
Aug.12.2007
05:40PM EDT 
vertical line 'Eternity' is a circumscription, that's why it is wholly and completely foolish to think about existing for that limit of time.
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Reply from Woodsman
Aug.12.2007
07:54PM EDT 
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vertical line Tell me when we get there, unless we're there already, then I don't want to know. thanks
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Reply from Lynnoh
Aug.13.2007
11:21AM EDT 
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vertical line Quote: "

Quote: &apos;Make the self empty&apos;; originally there isn&apos;t any thing.&apos; That&apos;s right, it is empty;

however, one still exists as an individual. If one, in fact, exists here and now and speaks of being &apos;empty, empty,&apos; while still continuing to exist as an individual, then one is still here. One isn&apos;t empty.

"This teaching is to help people get rid of their attachments. Don&apos;t be attached to the existence of a self."

With Metta

Kelvin Tan

"
.........

"
.........

maybe it is to give up the attachment of  self that cannot include being empty?

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Reply from Lynnoh
Aug.13.2007
11:25AM EDT 
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Quote: "Tell me when we get there, unless we&apos;re there already, then I don&apos;t want to know. thanks "
.........

if I do not know..will I assume to be already there?

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Reply from kelvintan
Aug.13.2007
01:15PM EDT 
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Quote: maybe it is to give up the attachment of  self that cannot include being empty?

Like empty space. Make the self empty. Don't be attached to the existence of a self.

Letting go of all your worries. It is all in the state of the mind.

Freedom.

With Metta

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Reply from ______
Aug.13.2007
01:52PM EDT 
vertical line Space isn't empty. And no one can make herself empty. Like 'eternity' ceases to mean 'without beginning and without end' when one says, "I shall be that 'after death', permanent, abiding, everlasting, unchanging..."
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Reply from kelvintan
Aug.13.2007
02:21PM EDT 
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Quote: "Space isn&apos;t empty. And no one can make herself empty. Like &apos;eternity&apos; ceases to mean &apos;without beginning and without end&apos; when one says, "I shall be that &apos;after death&apos;, permanent, abiding, everlasting, unchanging...""
.........

Rightly understood, 'emptiness' is not a concept to be understood intellectually; it is a way of life. it points to the emptying of our experience moment after moment.

We learn to see ourselves and our concerns, both desires and fears, as empty - like a mirage or a dream.

In total agreement with your explaination.

With Metta

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Reply from Lynnoh
Aug.13.2007
03:21PM EDT 
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 :(  I don't know what to do

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Reply from kelvintan
Aug.13.2007
05:12PM EDT 
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vertical line Quote: "

 :(  I don&apos;t know what to do

"
.........

"
.........

"To see clearly and directly the truth of our experience in each moment, to be aware, to be mindful".

With Metta.

Kelvin Tan

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Reply from ______
Aug.13.2007
05:44PM EDT 
vertical line There is nothing to done and lots of it, you can believe me or you can shove it up your arse.
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Reply from Lynnoh
Aug.13.2007
06:37PM EDT 
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vertical line are you upset Rustic? I mean for no one to be.. I'm sorry..I don't understand why you talk like this.
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Reply from Lynnoh
Aug.13.2007
06:39PM EDT 
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vertical line I will stop posting for awhile.
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Reply from kelvintan
Aug.14.2007
01:08AM EDT 
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Hi Bro Rustie

"In all our speech and writing we only make use of a few letters in the alphabet but what marvels, and utter destruction we can do with these few letters.

Words can bring us gain or loss, praise or blame, good repute or ill will, happiness or misery.

A gentle word, at times, can melt the hardest heart." - K Sri Dhammananda

"For one word a man is often deemed to be wise, and for one word he is often deemed to be foolish.We should be careful indeed what we say ".- Confucius

With Metta

Kelvin Tan

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Reply from kelvintan
Aug.14.2007
01:12AM EDT 
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Quote: "There is nothing to done and lots of it, you can believe me or you can shove it up your arse. "
.........

Sorry for the wrong spelling in post reply. I cannot see what I post  over herebut have a vivid memory spelling Rustie instead of Rustic.

Yours Truly

With Metta

Kelvin Tan

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Reply from Woodsman
Aug.14.2007
09:35AM EDT 
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vertical line I use to have a hamster named Rustie. I'd yell, "Hey Rustie, come over here!" And he wouldn't, he'd just spin in his wheel. Maybe his name wasn't Rustie. But I did use hand gestures too. Good eye contact too... Wait a minute! Maybe Rustie was blind! Or just near-sighted. He wasn't the smartest hamster in the bunch, but neither was I. Maybe that's why he didn't like me. But he was a vegetarian, too. He did bite a friend of mine once, but I think he thought he was a cherry, I did too.
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Reply from ______
Aug.14.2007
10:15AM EDT 
vertical line Yeah, sorry Lynn, forgive me, I don't understand either wither I don't apologise. It's the dark side of chickens.

And that stiff guy? It is not remotely unlikely that he is very probably faxing himself this instant.
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Reply from ______
Aug.14.2007
10:17AM EDT 
vertical line Hello there kaytee. Woddsee woodsy.
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Reply from ______
Aug.14.2007
10:36AM EDT 
vertical line Lynnoh come back - please don't stop posting because of what I write. I am sorry.
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Reply from Lynnoh
Aug.14.2007
11:32AM EDT 
Email Lynnoh
vertical line feeling a bit off today. My heart has already started to fuss...and in reading these past few posts...I feel..unaware to your awarenesses... and because of such I trust in this awareness... so the story is...that this is not just about some sort of "me" as in an alone "me"... it envolves everyone...everyone I am in contact with... everyone and everything comes together.. and it gets a bit scary...my friends says "don't be afraid Lynn"... but can I explain how he too is here...does he know? someplace inside he seems to...his responses show this.. but it is the becoming of..like merging into another body or space... it is at those times it feels more important than ever to be...calm.. understanding... and when this gets disrupted.. by "my" stuff I suppose maybe , I don't know... then I worry that this incounter maybe harmful and.... I simply do not understand what I experience enough.. it is one thing to be "with" ones grandchildren when they are in pain..but another to "be with" ones grandchildren when they are in pain. though it may be the most loving gesture to share such things..it can be the most painful... to be inside someone else and feel as they do... do you understand this?  oh my... this is such a wonderful thing... I apologize to all...
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Reply from kelvintan
Aug.14.2007
11:36AM EDT 
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Quote: "I will stop posting for awhile."
.........

Hi Lynn,

This guy, have taken time to care

In giving and wanting to share

In his grace and making amends

There is this wisdom to have

Friendship in constant repair

May all my brothers and sisters

out there Be well and Happy.

With Metta

Kelvin Tan

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Reply from Lynnoh
Aug.14.2007
11:42AM EDT 
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Quote: "I use to have a hamster named Rustie. I&apos;d yell, "Hey Rustie, come over here!" And he wouldn&apos;t, he&apos;d just spin in his wheel. Maybe his name wasn&apos;t Rustie. But I did use hand gestures too. Good eye contact too... Wait a minute! Maybe Rustie was blind! Or just near-sighted. He wasn&apos;t the smartest hamster in the bunch, but neither was I. Maybe that&apos;s why he didn&apos;t like me. But he was a vegetarian, too. He did bite a friend of mine once, but I think he thought he was a cherry, I did too. "
.........

why did you write this?

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Reply from Lynnoh
Aug.14.2007
11:44AM EDT 
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vertical line it wouldn't hurt if I stop posting for awhile... sometimes..things just happen
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Reply from Lynnoh
Aug.14.2007
11:46AM EDT 
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vertical line Rustie is what I heard...
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Reply from Woodsman
Aug.14.2007
05:03PM EDT 
Email Woodsman
vertical line Quote: "

Quote: "I use to have a hamster named Rustie. I&apos;d yell, "Hey Rustie, come over here!" And he wouldn&apos;t, he&apos;d just spin in his wheel. Maybe his name wasn&apos;t Rustie. But I did use hand gestures too. Good eye contact too... Wait a minute! Maybe Rustie was blind! Or just near-sighted. He wasn&apos;t the smartest hamster in the bunch, but neither was I. Maybe that&apos;s why he didn&apos;t like me. But he was a vegetarian, too. He did bite a friend of mine once, but I think he thought he was a cherry, I did too. "
.........

why did you write this?

"
.........

Um... I don't know.
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Reply from 77 zen ror
Aug.14.2007
05:50PM EDT 
Email 77 zen ror
vertical line Give love a change. Be there for them. & don't stop posting I need to know whats in your heart and on your mine. It's only love that can change your world & fell your life with compassion of the heart. Neaver let your self be not spoke of. take care of your self & be good to your self. love RORY
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Reply from Lynnoh
Aug.14.2007
06:04PM EDT 
Email Lynnoh
vertical line Quote: "Quote: "

Quote: "I use to have a hamster named Rustie. I&apos;d yell, "Hey Rustie, come over here!" And he wouldn&apos;t, he&apos;d just spin in his wheel. Maybe his name wasn&apos;t Rustie. But I did use hand gestures too. Good eye contact too... Wait a minute! Maybe Rustie was blind! Or just near-sighted. He wasn&apos;t the smartest hamster in the bunch, but neither was I. Maybe that&apos;s why he didn&apos;t like me. But he was a vegetarian, too. He did bite a friend of mine once, but I think he thought he was a cherry, I did too. "
.........

why did you write this?

"
.........

Um... I don&apos;t know.
"
.........

"
.........

Um... I don&apos;t know.
"
.........

hahahahaha... why so often it feels like I've been thrown to the deep end and everyone is watching...  thus swimming lessons

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Reply from Lynnoh
Aug.14.2007
06:04PM EDT 
Email Lynnoh
vertical line Quote: "Quote: "

Quote: "I use to have a hamster named Rustie. I&apos;d yell, "Hey Rustie, come over here!" And he wouldn&apos;t, he&apos;d just spin in his wheel. Maybe his name wasn&apos;t Rustie. But I did use hand gestures too. Good eye contact too... Wait a minute! Maybe Rustie was blind! Or just near-sighted. He wasn&apos;t the smartest hamster in the bunch, but neither was I. Maybe that&apos;s why he didn&apos;t like me. But he was a vegetarian, too. He did bite a friend of mine once, but I think he thought he was a cherry, I did too. "
.........

why did you write this?

"
.........

Um... I don&apos;t know.
"
.........

"
.........

Um... I don&apos;t know.
"
.........

hahahahaha... why so often it feels like I've been thrown to the deep end and everyone is watching...  thus swimming lessons

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Reply from Lynnoh
Aug.14.2007
06:06PM EDT 
Email Lynnoh
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Quote: "Give love a change. Be there for them. & don&apos;t stop posting I need to know whats in your heart and on your mine. It&apos;s only love that can change your world & fell your life with compassion of the heart. Neaver let your self be not spoke of. take care of your self & be good to your self. love RORY"
.........

:)

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Reply from Woodsman
Aug.15.2007
01:50PM EDT 
Email Woodsman
vertical line Love, wears diapers.
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