history principles practice stories, books, media discussion forum organizations resources
zenguide.com logo
 
Saturday Oct 25 2014 09:51PM ET
º login º register º email º guestbook º printer friendly
grey dot
  One day a monk paid a visit to Tinh Khong (1091-1170), a Vietnamese Zen master,
who was of the tenth generation of Vo Ngon Thong lineage, and asked:
-From old days it was talked about "direct pointing", what does that mean?
The... continue...

z
.
e
.
n
menu left history menu spacer principles menu spacer practice menu spacer zen media menu spacer discussion forum menu spacer organization directory menu spacer resources  
login
  DISCUSSION FORUM
» topic list   » start a new topic   » my tracked topics   » view topic
grey dot

horizontal line
→→→→ vertical line TOPIC: THE HEART SUTRA
vertical line Posted on Aug.17.2007 @ 03:55AM EDT by daisho
so tonight me and my girlfriend invited a Zen couple that has just recently moved to our block over to sit zazen with us.

they are an elderly couple who migrated to NYC about 7 years back, from Japan. anyway as zazen was comming to a close, the wife asked if she could recite The Perfect Wisdom of the Heart Sutra to us in English, as a thank you for us inviting them over. She'd never spoken any Zen Koans aloud in English before.

anyway something weird happened as she was beginning. I started to cry. It was a very deep feeling, and i felt overwhelmed. I honestly don't know what exactly made me start crying, and i was way embarrassed for a moment. However my girlfriend came over and hugged me close, and I tried to explain that i was very touched by this woman reciting such a beautiful idea as goodbye.

The Great Heart Sutra has always been a particularly moving sutra for me, and I was wondering if anyone else has had a similar experience?
Go to Latest Reply   Reply to this Topic   Email daisho
horizontal line
 
horizontal line
Reply from ______
Aug.17.2007
08:38AM EDT 
vertical line Yes, of course.

The Heart Sutra is indeed very beautiful.

Time was, formerly, when I used to 'practice' what is called formal zazen and I cried all the time. Today, is time, I don't practice formal zazen and I still cry. It is beyond me to describe to you what meditation is.
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 73582
horizontal line
 
horizontal line
Reply from Lynnoh
Aug.17.2007
10:33AM EDT 
Email Lynnoh
vertical line yes
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 73589
horizontal line
 
horizontal line
Reply from 77 zen ror
Aug.17.2007
05:02PM EDT 
Email 77 zen ror
vertical line Love & kindness of the heart. Felt with compassion. Enjoy your time with you new teachers in life.
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 73599
horizontal line
 
horizontal line
Reply from Woodsman
Aug.17.2007
06:41PM EDT 
Email Woodsman
vertical line the heart is the seat of emotion
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 73600
horizontal line
 
horizontal line
Reply from daisho
Aug.18.2007
08:46AM EDT 
Email daisho
vertical line what's strange is most Zen Sutras, have very little meaning to me. Maybe it's a lack of depth of understanding, but either i feel they tell me what i believe to be common sense anyway, or the intention of the writing is beyond my current comprehension. I've only begun considering myself as a Zen Buddhist for 3 years, and i've been studying Zen, and sitting zazen for a bit over 6 years (my B.A. is in philosophy, and mainly Eastern theology/early philosophical-mathmatical thought).

Just something about the Heart Sutra says something very special to me. Sometimes when a crowd cheers hard for a player that has redeemed himself, or during the Star Spangled Banner, i get choked up pretty bad. And it's not that i'm some hardcore American Ra-Ra! either. It's just the fact that people invest so much faith in something (the lyrics to the SSB are an especially powerful statement of human defiance), it gives me a sense of pride.

Anyway, that's very similar to my emotional connection to the Heart Sutra. I feel it is reverant, and although i actively try to question everything i come across in zen buddhism, this sutra feels like the most elegant explanation of life/universe imaginable.

my actual question in the OP, was to see if you guys had something that wouldn't be especially personal, and yet brought up a huge wellof emotion??
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 73604
horizontal line
 
horizontal line
Reply from ______
Aug.18.2007
01:06PM EDT 
vertical line Cheering crowds that invest faith in national anthems? Look around. SSB lyrics - powerful statement of human defiance? Against what and / or who? God Save The Queen? No thanks!
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 73608
horizontal line
 
horizontal line
Reply from Bezoomy
Aug.18.2007
01:49PM EDT 
Email Bezoomy
vertical line Rustic is so intune with reality.
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 73611
horizontal line
 
horizontal line
Reply from Woodsman
Aug.18.2007
03:35PM EDT 
Email Woodsman
vertical line He breeds it! Ahhh... yeah!
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 73615
horizontal line
 
horizontal line
Reply from Woodsman
Aug.18.2007
05:16PM EDT 
Email Woodsman
vertical line whoops
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 73617
horizontal line
 
horizontal line
Reply from daisho
Aug.20.2007
02:50AM EDT 
Email daisho
vertical line Quote: "Cheering crowds that invest faith in national anthems? Look around. SSB lyrics - powerful statement of human defiance? Against what and / or who? God Save The Queen? No thanks!"
.........

Yes, when a player sacrifices his own well being, for the good of the team, and the crowd pays tribute to that i do get emotional. Not exactly because of the sacrifice itself, just that soo many people are screaming and cheering to show their appreciation for the acat of selflessness. Or even when a retired player takes the field, and the crowd goes wild. It makes me feel very proud that we as humans value sacrifice selflessness the way we do. Especially considering we live in a culture and socio-economic system that is all about "me first."

As far as the SSBmaking me misty eyed, the lyrics to that hymn are beautiful in what they represent. A captured sailor looking out the window of his ship and seeing that all he fought for still exists. That the flag, a symbol of freedom, still waves above a heavily bombarded fort. The fact i get misty when the crowd cheers it, is that it makes me realize that even though none of those people were there, they honor such a noble event.

It makes me proud to see that our priorities may get mixed up now and then, but we remember what's important, honoring our ancestors, and sacrificing for others.

my post was in no way ment to be taken as support for any political system, nor nationalistic pride. It was a pride in the average person, that yes we cheer when someone wins, but we also pay respect to those who give of themselves for a higher cause.

maybe to you those values, are not deserving of consideration. however, your path is your own.

btw witful sarcastic posts on a bulletin board is soooo 1995.
if you think what i'm saying is deserving of ridicule, go make a youtube vid about it.
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 73697
horizontal line
 
horizontal line
Reply from ______
Aug.20.2007
07:53AM EDT 
vertical line What's witful and sarcastic about saying no thanks to your 'powerful statement of human defiance' bullshit? Millionaire sports personalities sacrificing and redeeming themselves on the sports' field that's hilarious. And btw, I don't make youtube vids, now or in 1995, sooooooo.... but if I did I'd make one without your permission or endorsement.
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 73704
horizontal line
 
horizontal line
Reply from ______
Aug.20.2007
08:42AM EDT 
vertical line And pride? Oh please. Pride is like smoking - it'll stunt your growth.
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 73707
horizontal line
 
horizontal line
Reply from Woodsman
Aug.20.2007
09:52AM EDT 
Email Woodsman
vertical line I'm proud of not smoking and being tall. I won't say anything about humility here.
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 73709
horizontal line
 
horizontal line
Reply from ______
Aug.20.2007
11:33AM EDT 
vertical line Ah but you already did.
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 73716
horizontal line
 
horizontal line
Reply from Woodsman
Aug.20.2007
11:57AM EDT 
Email Woodsman
vertical line I'm too proud to admit it. I'm stupid. But that's good! Unknowing is not so much a matter of any continuous pattern being repeated, but in seeing a pattern which has been until now unseen. And in that way, brings about a certain dropping of previous ways.
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 73720
horizontal line
 
horizontal line
Reply from ______
Aug.20.2007
03:10PM EDT 
vertical line Nah, you only want me to think that you think you think that you're stupid and don't want to be but I'm not that stupid, er, I think, I don't think, unthink, nonthinky rinky dinky plinky do ow [n n n ] mutherload.
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 73730
horizontal line
 
horizontal line
Reply from Woodsman
Aug.20.2007
04:03PM EDT 
Email Woodsman
vertical line It's okay if you're doin' dishes, I can listen, to all the clinky-clink sounds. But eat first, ok.
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 73735
horizontal line
 
horizontal line
Reply from daisho
Aug.20.2007
08:02PM EDT 
Email daisho
vertical line Quote: "What's witful and sarcastic about saying no thanks to your 'powerful statement of human defiance' bullshit? Millionaire sports personalities sacrificing and redeeming themselves on the sports' field that's hilarious. And btw, I don't make youtube vids, now or in 1995, sooooooo.... but if I did I'd make one without your permission or endorsement. "
.........

this entire post is odd. i was speaking about a personal matter, and for some reason you felt i was pushing it onto you. why would you chose to "say no" to MY feelings regarding a poem? did i ask you to share that feeling? or is it that you just believe your opinion to be correct, and mine to be false? for a poster on a zen forum i find that incredibly egotistical.

Why would you assume all sports personalities are millionaires? My point had nothing to do with PROFESSIONAL sports, it dealt with athletes in general. I find it hard to believe you're only aware of professional sporting events. Players make sacrifices at all levels of competetition, whether they recieve compensation or not.

you seem to be very angry about something, otherwise i'd assume you're aggressiveness to have some sociopathic root. i assure you rustic, i am competant to produce my own feelings and opinions, which do not need your support. I'm sorry that you would feel me stating something personal on a message board as some sort of direct assault on your sensibilities. I guess the only advice i can offer is to log out and go for a walk. taking such things personally is typically a sign of spending toomuch time at your keyboard.
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 73741
horizontal line
 
horizontal line
Reply from ______
Aug.20.2007
08:27PM EDT 
vertical line Quote: "Quote: "What's witful and sarcastic about saying no thanks to your 'powerful statement of human defiance' bullshit? Millionaire sports personalities sacrificing and redeeming themselves on the sports' field that's hilarious. And btw, I don't make youtube vids, now or in 1995, sooooooo.... but if I did I'd make one without your permission or endorsement. "
.........

this entire post is odd. i was speaking about a personal matter, and for some reason you felt i was pushing it onto you. why would you chose to "say no" to MY feelings regarding a poem? did i ask you to share that feeling? or is it that you just believe your opinion to be correct, and mine to be false? for a poster on a zen forum i find that incredibly egotistical.

Why would you assume all sports personalities are millionaires? My point had nothing to do with PROFESSIONAL sports, it dealt with athletes in general. I find it hard to believe you're only aware of professional sporting events. Players make sacrifices at all levels of competetition, whether they recieve compensation or not.

you seem to be very angry about something, otherwise i'd assume you're aggressiveness to have some sociopathic root. i assure you rustic, i am competant to produce my own feelings and opinions, which do not need your support. I'm sorry that you would feel me stating something personal on a message board as some sort of direct assault on your sensibilities. I guess the only advice i can offer is to log out and go for a walk. taking such things personally is typically a sign of spending toomuch time at your keyboard.
"
.........

I don't know where you keep getting this stuff from - aggressiveness, sociopathic root, direct assault on my sensibilities, etc. I think it's coming from the same place your jingoism lives. What gives you the impression that I think you need my support. Support to do what? Make a youtube video? And why concern yourself about guessing what the only advice is you can offer. I'm sorry that you feel so defensive about your silly national anthem and if I think about it I might want to get angry about the kind of imperialism and division it promotes. And it has nothing whatsoever to do with the Heart Sutra. No, you're pissed off, that's all. Oh and leave my keyboard out of it. Anything else?
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 73742
horizontal line
 
horizontal line
Reply from Woodsman
Aug.20.2007
08:42PM EDT 
Email Woodsman
vertical line I'm not into sports, I just see the word and I regress into being a jellybean. I'd be a green bean, but that's too natural.
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 73743
horizontal line
 
horizontal line
Reply from daisho
Aug.20.2007
08:48PM EDT 
Email daisho
vertical line lol.
i thought is was going to be a half-way decent exchange, but by your last post, it's obvious you're not comprehending anything i'm writing anyway. I mean i couldn't have been anymore non-defensive, or upset than my last post, which i hoped would defuse the situation.

anyhow you're constantly assuming things about me. the original 2 assumptions from my previous post, and now you assume i'm some pro-imperialist neo-con fascist, by my particular attachment to a single poem. if i were to enjoy the romanticism of the symphonic Charge of the Light Brigade, would you assume I was a supporter of mideval, autocracy? i assure you neither assumption would be correct.

you totally missed the meaning of "needing your support."

no part of my post asked you to be in agreement with me on my particular feelings. yet you create generalizations about my opinions, and feel compelled to respond so negatively. you're the only one being negative. you're the only one making baseless assumptions. you're the only one acting defensive. you're the only one promoting some myopic view point of a post that didn't concern you AT ALL. Nothing more for now.
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 73744
horizontal line
 
horizontal line
Reply from ______
Aug.20.2007
08:51PM EDT 
vertical line Quote: "lol.
i thought is was going to be a half-way decent exchange, but by your last post, it's obvious you're not comprehending anything i'm writing anyway. I mean i couldn't have been anymore non-defensive, or upset than my last post, which i hoped would defuse the situation.

anyhow you're constantly assuming things about me. the original 2 assumptions from my previous post, and now you assume i'm some pro-imperialist neo-con fascist, by my particular attachment to a single poem. if i were to enjoy the romanticism of the symphonic Charge of the Light Brigade, would you assume I was a supporter of mideval, autocracy? i assure you neither assumption would be correct.

you totally missed the meaning of "needing your support."

no part of my post asked you to be in agreement with me on my particular feelings. yet you create generalizations about my opinions, and feel compelled to respond so negatively. you're the only one being negative. you're the only one making baseless assumptions. you're the only one acting defensive. you're the only one promoting some myopic view point of a post that didn't concern you AT ALL. Nothing more for now.
"
.........

What on earth are you on about? A half-way decent exchange? Call me some more assumed names if it makes you feel better. I don't mind. I couldn't care less about your posts. What do you think about that?
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 73745
horizontal line
 
horizontal line
Reply from daisho
Aug.20.2007
08:54PM EDT 
Email daisho
vertical line we're finally in agreement with one another.
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 73746
horizontal line
 
horizontal line
Reply from ______
Aug.20.2007
08:56PM EDT 
vertical line boing!! boing-boing!!!
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 73748
horizontal line
 
horizontal line
Reply from Woodsman
Aug.20.2007
08:56PM EDT 
Email Woodsman
vertical line rubber thongs
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 73747
horizontal line
 
horizontal line
Reply from ______
Aug.20.2007
08:57PM EDT 
vertical line ooo see that?
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 73749
horizontal line
 
horizontal line
Reply from ______
Aug.20.2007
08:58PM EDT 
vertical line twang! twang-twang!!
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 73750
horizontal line
 
horizontal line
Reply from Woodsman
Aug.20.2007
08:59PM EDT 
Email Woodsman
vertical line You're one, he's the other.
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 73751
horizontal line
 
horizontal line
Reply from Woodsman
Aug.20.2007
09:09PM EDT 
Email Woodsman
vertical line Om goodness, the other day after being motivated by this heart sutra threadly, I went ahead and brought some Pema book to work, and boy did I get my ass kicked. I'll never do that again. Next time I'll bring a sports ill-ustrated, or I'll say I will, and sit there like a big jelly bean. I won't even go into all the heart signs I had to pass before getting to work. Next time there will be football signs to dodge from. Wait a minute, I think I'm having a vision... okay, it passed, fumbled as usual. G-o0d doesn't talk, he throws footballs at ya! Hearts and roses too! ahhoowww... missed me!
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 73752
horizontal line
 
horizontal line
Reply from Lynnoh
Aug.20.2007
09:30PM EDT 
Email Lynnoh
vertical line who are you? tell me who you are.
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 73753
horizontal line
 
horizontal line
Reply from 77 zen ror
Aug.21.2007
09:02PM EDT 
Email 77 zen ror
vertical line I'm A LOVEING SPRIT. TO GIVE KINDNESS TO OTHERS.
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 73763
horizontal line
 
horizontal line
Reply from Woodsman
Aug.21.2007
09:27PM EDT 
Email Woodsman
vertical line me too
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 73765
horizontal line
 
horizontal line
Reply from Davidseon
Aug.21.2007
10:14PM EDT 
Email Davidseon
vertical line

Snap,  Birds fly, fish swim and the grass is green today, it's been raining.

vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 73768
horizontal line
 
horizontal line
Reply from 77 zen ror
Aug.21.2007
10:17PM EDT 
Email 77 zen ror
vertical line After the snow melts the cherrybolthoms will grow.
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 73769
horizontal line
 
horizontal line
Reply from 77 zen ror
Aug.21.2007
10:22PM EDT 
Email 77 zen ror
vertical line My loveing kindness be allways given to you. Give freely it al comes to you. Any body want to set & have tea.
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 73770
horizontal line
 
horizontal line
Reply from lehish
Aug.21.2007
10:24PM EDT 
Email lehish
vertical line

Quote: "boing!! boing-boing!!!"
.........

lol

vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 73771
horizontal line
 
horizontal line
Reply from Lynnoh
Aug.21.2007
10:40PM EDT 
Email Lynnoh
vertical line another whoops and light
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 73773
horizontal line
 
horizontal line
Reply from 77 zen ror
Aug.21.2007
10:43PM EDT 
Email 77 zen ror
vertical line Love 'ya all
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 73776
horizontal line
 
horizontal line
Reply from gyro16
Aug.22.2007
04:41AM EDT 
Email gyro16
vertical line i practice Zaezen at night, because I can open the windows and let the world in to my world. it also helps me sleep.
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 73791
horizontal line
 
horizontal line
Reply from ______
Aug.22.2007
10:36AM EDT 
vertical line Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Hart Sue Ta Ra
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 73799
horizontal line
 
horizontal line
Reply from Woodsman
Aug.22.2007
10:09PM EDT 
Email Woodsman
vertical line What are you doing, polishing china? Silver, I mean.
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 73814
horizontal line
 
horizontal line
Reply from ______
Aug.23.2007
09:05AM EDT 
vertical line hart stutter
sutra strutter
heart suture
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 73822
horizontal line
 
horizontal line
Reply from 77 zen ror
Aug.23.2007
11:47PM EDT 
Email 77 zen ror
vertical line LOVE, COMPASSION, KINDNESS, PEACE, HAPPYNESS, THE HEART SUTRA, FOR THE LOVE OF ZEN
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 73843
horizontal line
 
horizontal line
Reply from Woodsman
Aug.23.2007
11:54PM EDT 
Email Woodsman
vertical line I think the guy would make a fine polisher.
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 73845
horizontal line
 
horizontal line
Reply from 77 zen ror
Aug.24.2007
06:59PM EDT 
Email 77 zen ror
vertical line Well Thank you. & have a greate friday.
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 73862
horizontal line
 
horizontal line
Reply from Lynnoh
Aug.25.2007
12:22PM EDT 
Email Lynnoh
vertical line how do you polish a fine? with  a finer?
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 73877
horizontal line
 
horizontal line
Reply from 77 zen ror
Aug.26.2007
08:31PM EDT 
Email 77 zen ror
vertical line With love, GIVEING kindness, seeing the joy, haveing peace.
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 73918
horizontal line
 
horizontal line
Reply from Lynnoh
Aug.27.2007
11:29AM EDT 
Email Lynnoh
vertical line how bout with a sense of humor ?
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 73927
horizontal line
 
horizontal line
Reply from 77 zen ror
Aug.27.2007
02:22PM EDT 
Email 77 zen ror
vertical line You go, love ya take good care.
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 73942
horizontal line
 
Back To Topic List   Go to Top of Page

 



SUPPORT ZENGUIDE.COM
If you are planning on purchasing any product from amazon.com, you can help us out by using the search box to the right or by clicking on this link to begin shopping.


Purchase posters, art prints, media (music CD & DVD)

buy this SITASAMVARA
by
Puchase this Item
More Art Prints & Media
Zen & Buddhism books
 
 
d
.
i
.
s
.
c
.
u
.
s
.
s
.
i
.
o
.
n
.

.
f
.
o
.
r
.
u
.
m
.
Copyright © 1999 - 2014 zenguide.com - All rights reserved. °