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  Phap Hien was a Vietnamese Zen master. He lived in the late 5th century and early the 6th century.
When he was a young monk at the Phap Van Temple he met Vinitaruci (?-594) who was one of the
successors of Seng-tsan, the Third Patriarch... continue...

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→→→→ vertical line TOPIC: LIVING WITH BIPOLAR
vertical line Posted on Oct.08.2007 @ 10:17PM EDT by shayne

whats a zen buddhist got to say about living with bipolar? im curious as this is as much a mental condition as well as a physical one ( an overactive gland in the brain ). the only thing i been doing is reflecting on all ive said that is what i consider to be part of it. as a condition i feel this disease is only a aspect of myself. it isnt my totality. their is that side of myself that is not insane. biploar being insane.

its been a trip thats for sure. but with the right medication i am doing good. the only bad part is being somewhat depressed from having a mental disease. the last thing id want to have.


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Reply from boopoom
Oct.09.2007
12:59AM EDT 
Email boopoom
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shyne    tell me who 's not insane......          name one that you think who is the most perfect human being for you...   remember  tell me only the first rank.

love yourself than you will find those two "bipolar"  become one.....  there is only one pole that spinning  which is you...and . you alone

I think you are genious : )

love, boopoom     

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Reply from ______
Oct.09.2007
08:45AM EDT 
vertical line So, how does it feel to know what a zen buddhist thinks? Now I'm no stickler for spelling mistakes (unlike shome I cud minshun), I've typod a few, but you'd think that if these zen buddhists are going to go around sticking labels on things, they would at least get the spelling right. Anyway, don't worry what zen buddhists think, they think too much and about the wrong things.
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Reply from ______
Oct.09.2007
09:51AM EDT 
vertical line Ok, I had a think and yeah, I can name one who isn't insane.
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Reply from Lynnoh
Oct.09.2007
12:01PM EDT 
Email Lynnoh
vertical line Shaynee... you are so wonderful. I live in a "rough" neighborhood and I look around and see so much beauty.. people living wonderful and hard lives... it is so beautiful to be anything... that only to be afraid of it... is... sadness... I wonder what disservice we  do when we place anything more than what it is on anything and anyone.what a wonderful life one can have.
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Reply from Lynnoh
Oct.09.2007
12:11PM EDT 
Email Lynnoh
vertical line the other night after three days of angina...on the third I put on nitro paste. and I lay there and listen to the heart struggle...with angina and flip flops ..uncontrolable movements...breathlessness... and so I lay there with nitro on the nightstand and the phone (just in case)... and somehow? it becomes morning...and there is little tell tales of the past three days..tiredness... fip flops... but rather doing "well" and sometimes when it hurts and I lay there..it is okay..sometimes..I realize I'm alone..even knowing not so..  I start to fuss with it and fight it... but is to say... there is always something we can fuss about.. but for what for? I don't know? you don't like the label..not the disease? the label is nothing Shayne... you know that...wooblie  :)
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Reply from Lynnoh
Oct.09.2007
12:29PM EDT 
Email Lynnoh
vertical line you know... sometimes it seems I have to struggle... it comes like it supposed to.. but I don't know why.
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Reply from ______
Oct.09.2007
12:43PM EDT 
vertical line Nobody started it and nobody is going to stop it - there is no other way.
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Reply from Lynnoh
Oct.09.2007
12:50PM EDT 
Email Lynnoh
vertical line brrrrrrrrrr
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Reply from 77 zen ror
Oct.09.2007
05:52PM EDT 
Email 77 zen ror
vertical line Love your self. And see a whole world of love & compassion,kindness come your way & fell your heart. With a understanding of you & the life you live. Don't give up on hope.Be good to your self.
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Reply from shayne
Oct.09.2007
07:39PM EDT 
Email shayne
vertical line Quote: "

shyne    tell me who 's not insane......          name one that you think who is the most perfect human being for you...   remember  tell me only the first rank.

love yourself than you will find those two "bipolar"  become one.....  there is only one pole that spinning  which is you...and . you alone

I think you are genious : )

love, boopoom     

"
.........

"
.........

i shrug off both polarity opoosites. they are just the waxing and waning of the person..thanks boopoom

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Reply from shayne
Oct.09.2007
07:41PM EDT 
Email shayne
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Quote: "Shaynee... you are so wonderful. I live in a "rough" neighborhood and I look around and see so much beauty.. people living wonderful and hard lives... it is so beautiful to be anything... that only to be afraid of it... is... sadness... I wonder what disservice we  do when we place anything more than what it is on anything and anyone.what a wonderful life one can have."
.........

thanks lynnoh. sorry about the heart condtion.

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Reply from lehish
Oct.09.2007
07:50PM EDT 
Email lehish
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Quote: "Nobody started it and nobody is going to stop it - there is no other way."
.........

exactly

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Reply from shayne
Oct.09.2007
08:24PM EDT 
Email shayne
vertical line Quote: "

Quote: "Nobody started it and nobody is going to stop it - there is no other way."
.........

exactly

"
.........

"
.........

eh...i quess.

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Reply from lehish
Oct.09.2007
08:38PM EDT 
Email lehish
vertical line ok
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Reply from shayne
Oct.09.2007
09:51PM EDT 
Email shayne
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Quote: "Nobody started it and nobody is going to stop it - there is no other way."
.........

medication stopped it. and the further i go with it the more im aware of what is bipolar and what is not. it isnt my whole person, its only a aspect.

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Reply from lehish
Oct.09.2007
10:17PM EDT 
Email lehish
vertical line Quote: "

Quote: "Nobody started it and nobody is going to stop it - there is no other way."
.........

medication stopped it. "
.........

"
.........

medication stopped a label? ;)

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Reply from shayne
Oct.09.2007
10:37PM EDT 
Email shayne
vertical line Quote: "Quote: "

Quote: "Nobody started it and nobody is going to stop it - there is no other way."
.........

medication stopped it. "
.........

"
.........

medication stopped a label? ;)

"
.........

"
.........

those aspects of myself i label myself. i am bipolar. they thought i was shizoaffective. which means medication cant help. i asked the doctor. what is the definative differance between bipolar and shizoaffective and he said........medication. i have all the classic telltale symptoms.

no medication didnt stop a label. but it helps with racing thoughts, nervousness and the anxiety i once felt. plus i had voices in my head. so labels aside. it helped.

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Reply from Snibbler
Oct.10.2007
02:59AM EDT 
vertical line This helped me, thou I have no idea what labels the healt care would have given me.
(My father is diagnosed bi-polar thou)
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Reply from Snibbler
Oct.10.2007
03:39AM EDT 
vertical line Just don`t end up as my father did. He was obsessed with "getting well" and his "disease". Stumbling from raging "I am the most sane person her. Never anything wrong with me", for next to rage about how little consideration he was given since he was sick etc.
Anyway, things were not well those years he was obsessively focused on "his condition",
about this "getting well". All I know is that he would have been much better off getting
another hobby than his "getting well" focus.
Off cource he was not happy when he focused on himself, and in such a way as he did, instead of trying to focus on fillig his life with causes for joy, rather than being in opposition to himself and his surroundings, believing he would be happy if he could just rid himself of his "disease" whatever. Sitting hour after hour and ponder on "whatever".

He has it anyway much better today, he focuses much less on his "disease" than he used to. And I don`t think he believe himself to be God either anymore:)

which you best Shayne
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Reply from lehish
Oct.10.2007
06:07AM EDT 
Email lehish
vertical line yes attaching focusing obsessing an image
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Reply from ______
Oct.10.2007
08:06AM EDT 
vertical line Well / Ill. . . now I am ill - my my is all wrong, now. My head feels as if it will split open. B A N G! ! ! I have voices in my head and will have voices in my head either because I am mad or because I don't fit in but I will need someone to tell me and understand me and do what's best for me. When I look at this material world I welcome their dream view of me in my madness and insanity, my naivete which you know, they say is not the REAL world. This harsh and cruel hell that human beings create. And no, I am not belittling medical conditions, I have friends and family who are labelled schizophrenic, labelled borderline personality disorder, labelled manic depressive bipolar, depressed, anxious, believe they are going insane through lack of sleep, categorised, stamped, processed, filed under this and that and the other. And I have been very fortunate to witness how a so-called schizophrenic embraced his 'disease' letting the fear slip away and realising an immense stream of creativity flowing from and into it.
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Reply from lehish
Oct.10.2007
09:36AM EDT 
Email lehish
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embracing isn't the same as obsessing

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Reply from lehish
Oct.10.2007
09:39AM EDT 
Email lehish
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didn't tell shayne not to enjoy the image though, hehehe

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Reply from lehish
Oct.10.2007
09:40AM EDT 
Email lehish
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Quote: "Well / Ill. . . now I am ill - my my is all wrong, now. My head feels as if it will split open. B A N G! ! ! I have voices in my head and will have voices in my head either because I am mad or because I don't fit in but I will need someone to tell me and understand me and do what's best for me. When I look at this material world I welcome their dream view of me in my madness and insanity, my naivete which you know, they say is not the REAL world. This harsh and cruel hell that human beings create. And no, I am not belittling medical conditions, I have friends and family who are labelled schizophrenic, labelled borderline personality disorder, labelled manic depressive bipolar, depressed, anxious, believe they are going insane through lack of sleep, categorised, stamped, processed, filed under this and that and the other. And I have been very fortunate to witness how a so-called schizophrenic embraced his 'disease' letting the fear slip away and realising an immense stream of creativity flowing from and into it. "
.........

what were defending?

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Reply from ______
Oct.10.2007
10:44AM EDT 
vertical line Not defending. Creating and reporting.
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Reply from Lynnoh
Oct.10.2007
11:23AM EDT 
Email Lynnoh
vertical line Quote: "

Quote: "Shaynee... you are so wonderful. I live in a "rough" neighborhood and I look around and see so much beauty.. people living wonderful and hard lives... it is so beautiful to be anything... that only to be afraid of it... is... sadness... I wonder what disservice we  do when we place anything more than what it is on anything and anyone.what a wonderful life one can have."
.........

thanks lynnoh. sorry about the heart condtion.

"
.........
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Reply from Lynnoh
Oct.10.2007
11:24AM EDT 
Email Lynnoh
vertical line Quote: "

Quote: "Shaynee... you are so wonderful. I live in a "rough" neighborhood and I look around and see so much beauty.. people living wonderful and hard lives... it is so beautiful to be anything... that only to be afraid of it... is... sadness... I wonder what disservice we  do when we place anything more than what it is on anything and anyone.what a wonderful life one can have."
.........

thanks lynnoh. sorry about the heart condtion.

"
.........

"
.........

why...I'm not sorry

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Reply from Lynnoh
Oct.10.2007
11:26AM EDT 
Email Lynnoh
vertical line I suppose it is dangerous to say...but in the quiet one can hear everything...I don't know about disease but I can listen
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Reply from Lynnoh
Oct.10.2007
11:29AM EDT 
Email Lynnoh
vertical line sometimes... I'm able to be with a heart that pumps not so good... and it is comfortable.. sometimes..I'm able to be with a heart that pumps not so good... and it is not comfortable.... sometimes I'm able to be with a heart that pumps good...and it is comfortable sometimes I'm able to be with a heart that pumps good and it is not comfortable.... it relies on ? I don't know
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Reply from lehish
Oct.10.2007
06:57PM EDT 
Email lehish
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Quote: "Not defending. Creating and reporting. "
.........

ah :)

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Reply from shayne
Oct.10.2007
07:57PM EDT 
Email shayne
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Quote: "Just don`t end up as my father did. He was obsessed with "getting well" and his "disease". Stumbling from raging "I am the most sane person her. Never anything wrong with me", for next to rage about how little consideration he was given since he was sick etc.
Anyway, things were not well those years he was obsessively focused on "his condition",
about this "getting well". All I know is that he would have been much better off getting
another hobby than his "getting well" focus.
Off cource he was not happy when he focused on himself, and in such a way as he did, instead of trying to focus on fillig his life with causes for joy, rather than being in opposition to himself and his surroundings, believing he would be happy if he could just rid himself of his "disease" whatever. Sitting hour after hour and ponder on "whatever".

He has it anyway much better today, he focuses much less on his "disease" than he used to. And I don`t think he believe himself to be God either anymore:)

which you best Shayne
"

thanks for the reply. yeah i wont do this. good suggestion.
.........

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Reply from shayne
Oct.10.2007
08:05PM EDT 
Email shayne
vertical line Quote: "

didn't tell shayne not to enjoy the image though, hehehe

"
.........

"
.........

the image frightens me. im gonna die an average man. living an average life. unless of course global warming kicks in and everyone get hysterical.....then i plan to disown money and take back the land from the government. hahaha.

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Reply from shayne
Oct.10.2007
08:15PM EDT 
Email shayne
vertical line i dont know if embracing is a good thing. as this means going with it. this i refuse to do.
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Reply from Snibbler
Oct.10.2007
09:23PM EDT 
vertical line U refuse going with the flow? Blasphemy!:)
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Reply from shayne
Oct.10.2007
09:32PM EDT 
Email shayne
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Quote: "U refuse going with the flow? Blasphemy!:) "
.........

haha....not THAT flow.

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Reply from gebhart099
Oct.14.2007
02:48PM EDT 
Email gebhart099
vertical line Quote: "Quote: "

didn't tell shayne not to enjoy the image though, hehehe

"
.........

"
.........

the image frightens me. im gonna die an average man. living an average life. unless of course global warming kicks in and everyone get hysterical.....then i plan to disown money and take back the land from the government. hahaha.

"You seem to have a good handle on your mental illness. There is no such thing as an average man or an average life. For a zen perspective on thought process and mental illness read Zen Training: Methods and Philosophy by Katsuki Sekida.
.........
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Reply from shayne
Oct.14.2007
07:39PM EDT 
Email shayne
vertical line ah....well thank you.
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Reply from shayne
Oct.14.2007
10:22PM EDT 
Email shayne
vertical line id rather consider myself average. better for my bipolar condtion.
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Reply from fatnhappy
Oct.25.2007
02:43AM EDT 
Email fatnhappy
vertical line Shayne ,

 One thing about this site is we can get so personal with each other . Thanx for sharing your experience  man . Let me tell you a little bout me . The reason I sought out Zen practice at all is because my internal monologue one day begain talking to itself and that frightened me to tears one night like ten years ago I considered my mental state always to be very stable  ...there were no voices telling me to do anything but there was free back and forth conversation between my internal voices ...weird to say out loud but reality is reality no matter how odd . SO I sought the advice of my father he has been a nurse my whole life and has delt with some pretty crazy stuff ....he handed me a book called......On love and Work by Joko Beck ...I think that was the title ...anyway it changed my life and I slowly healed my mind .....me this being I harbor in this meat shell That I call me changed itself ....not some being in my heart or some deity or mysterious force . I sat for hours and hours and hours making my internal  ramble stop . I practiced everyday for years . Until finally One day I noticed no more ramble and its been gone ever sense . Not to be all cheesy Im holeyier than tho look how enlightened I am and your not type shit ......but I did it man you have the power to change your nero paths in your brain ,,,,to rewire your mind ..you just have to practice and if it takes you a couple years so be it ...medication is a bandaid ....unless you really want something your not goin to go grab it ......stop making excuses man and change yourself make "you" , "I" your self what you want it to be . Your not handed a map or guide for how to live and unless someone cares enough to kick you in the ass a says dude stop being a wuss ...youll just sit there and self loath . your a great person shayne And I hope you find your path man !
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Reply from shayne
Oct.25.2007
10:20PM EDT 
Email shayne
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thanks for the reply fnh.

generally speaking i meditate. i sit and contemplate or focus on my breath.

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Reply from 77 zen ror
Oct.26.2007
08:27PM EDT 
Email 77 zen ror
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Sitting is giving love to the sprit & your self. It gives a pure understand on the life that we live. And what is going on in it. Good luck to you all.

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Reply from shayne
Nov.18.2007
09:55AM EDT 
Email shayne
vertical line living with bipolar sucks. i play god and satan with myself. i have had no direct intervention with god. it is my own voice.
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Reply from Woodsman
Nov.18.2007
04:21PM EDT 
Email Woodsman
vertical line i know the feeling
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Reply from shayne
Nov.18.2007
09:36PM EDT 
Email shayne
vertical line you know the feeling?
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Reply from shayne
Nov.18.2007
10:08PM EDT 
Email shayne
vertical line god is my superego.satan is my id. i play god and satan with myself. but i am the middle man. the superego is not true and the id is not true. freud is wrong. one voice stands and it is my own. neither a god, nor a demon. i fight with myself no longer.
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Reply from Woodsman
Nov.19.2007
10:45AM EDT 
Email Woodsman
vertical line I'm a nurse. Remeber Shaynee?
Look under your shoe.
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Reply from Woodsman
Nov.19.2007
10:59AM EDT 
Email Woodsman
vertical line Quote: "I'm a nurse. Remember Shaynee?
Look under your shoe, it's underneath if you forget.
"There's a little guy holdin' on there who wants to be you.
.........
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Reply from shayne
Nov.19.2007
11:16AM EDT 
Email shayne
vertical line what are you talking about?
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Reply from ______
Nov.19.2007
12:08PM EDT 
vertical line The next time you find yourself standing on the very very edge of a cliff, do this: close your eyes and start jumping up and down on the spot. Then mark double-quick-time, army style. And no peeping.
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Reply from ______
Nov.19.2007
12:10PM EDT 
vertical line What? There is no next time?
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Reply from Woodsman
Nov.19.2007
02:46PM EDT 
Email Woodsman
vertical line Quote: "what are you talking about?"
.........

Who wants to know shaynee?

Oooo! Ooooh! Pick me! (some old wood's man raising his arms, and wavin' hands briskly, vigorously, urgently, excitedly, furiously, madly, fervently, frenetically, feverishly, proudly, expectantly, dramatically, intently, passionately, .. ah phones ringing)  hold on, or breathe. One, then another, and another, and another, and another, and another, and another, shayne, and another, is, and another, he is, and another, stop thinking you are, any other, after another, some kind of, another, useless thing, bing
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Reply from Woodsman
Nov.19.2007
02:54PM EDT 
Email Woodsman
vertical line bing                                                                               I

           bing                                                                I


b                       i                                           I

     ng

                  b                                      I
         i

         n                                          I


             g                                  I

gabing                                   I
                                           

     gabong                            I


               ping                       I



   pong                              I



  pling                             I


           plang                 I


      plunk                     I


                                                            never quite reach it
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Reply from Woodsman
Nov.19.2007
03:12PM EDT 
Email Woodsman
vertical line still cornfused shaynester?
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Reply from 77 zen ror
Nov.19.2007
06:19PM EDT 
Email 77 zen ror
vertical line Open your heart up to the sprit that gave you life. And all thats around you.You are loved by many. My the sprit shine on your heart. And the life you live. Say to you self, I'm alive in the now . See the love all around you. thats there for you.
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Reply from ______
Nov.19.2007
06:25PM EDT 
vertical line And reject those, that, this, t'other which don't reflect your own miiiiiiiiiindeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee
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Reply from shayne
Nov.19.2007
08:29PM EDT 
Email shayne
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Quote: "still cornfused shaynester? "

we make confusion. no i am not confused. but it seems you are.
.........

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Reply from ______
Nov.21.2007
06:52AM EDT 
vertical line I am cornfed
you are conned
I am cornfield
we are fusion
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Reply from gebhart099
Dec.08.2007
10:50AM EDT 
Email gebhart099
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Quote: "id rather consider myself average. better for my bipolar condtion."
.........

Sorry, I've been out awhile. Computer problems.    My objection to the word average is that it carries a connotation of unimportant. You know, just another guy. Because we are all interconnected we are all important.We all have a choice : to be a positive force in this world or not.

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Reply from -----0
Dec.08.2007
11:05AM EDT 
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importance is not really important
compassion is beyond the positive/negative

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Reply from ______
Dec.08.2007
06:06PM EDT 
vertical line So, no compassion there then.
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Reply from 77 zen ror
Dec.08.2007
08:35PM EDT 
Email 77 zen ror
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Just love to be loved. Open your heart to a new being. Zen is Zen

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Reply from shayne
Dec.09.2007
12:35AM EDT 
Email shayne
vertical line Quote: "

Quote: "id rather consider myself average. better for my bipolar condtion."
.........

Sorry, I've been out awhile. Computer problems.    My objection to the word average is that it carries a connotation of unimportant. You know, just another guy. Because we are all interconnected we are all important.We all have a choice : to be a positive force in this world or not.

"
.........

"
.........

one voice can make a differance.

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Reply from ______
Dec.09.2007
08:28AM EDT 
vertical line Extremes are easy. Mind moves from one extreme to another - positive/negative; important/trivial; love/hate; good/bad; purity/impurity and becomes agitated very easily. It thinks that compassion involves being needed. And balancing extremes is impossible - mind looking beyond extremes is an extremity.
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Reply from -----0
Dec.09.2007
08:52AM EDT 
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extremes are always balanced
mind can't look beyond

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Reply from ______
Dec.09.2007
08:57AM EDT 
vertical line Looking for balance isn't balance - how easy was that? Now, is it very zen? Or is it very Zen Buddhism?
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Reply from -----0
Dec.09.2007
09:02AM EDT 
vertical line compassion reduces suffering
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Reply from ______
Dec.09.2007
09:21AM EDT 
vertical line Ok, well I know sickness when I see it.
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Reply from sgrrll
Sep.05.2009
04:21AM EDT 
Email sgrrll
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Quote: "Shayne ,

 One thing about this site is we can get so personal with each other . Thanx for sharing your experience  man . Let me tell you a little bout me . The reason I sought out Zen practice at all is because my internal monologue one day begain talking to itself and that frightened me to tears one night like ten years ago I considered my mental state always to be very stable  ...there were no voices telling me to do anything but there was free back and forth conversation between my internal voices ...weird to say out loud but reality is reality no matter how odd . SO I sought the advice of my father he has been a nurse my whole life and has delt with some pretty crazy stuff ....he handed me a book called......On love and Work by Joko Beck ...I think that was the title ...anyway it changed my life and I slowly healed my mind .....me this being I harbor in this meat shell That I call me changed itself ....not some being in my heart or some deity or mysterious force . I sat for hours and hours and hours making my internal  ramble stop . I practiced everyday for years . Until finally One day I noticed no more ramble and its been gone ever sense . Not to be all cheesy Im holeyier than tho look how enlightened I am and your not type  ......but I did it man you have the power to change your nero paths in your brain ,,,,to rewire your mind ..you just have to practice and if it takes you a couple years so be it ...medication is a bandaid ....unless you really want something your not goin to go grab it ......stop making excuses man and change yourself make "you" , "I" your self what you want it to be . Your not handed a map or guide for how to live and unless someone cares enough to kick you in the ass a says dude stop being a wuss ...youll just sit there and self loath . your a great person shayne And I hope you find your path man !
"
.........

I know this is an old old post so sorry about that. But, I really believe its important to battle misinformation wherever it is.

"Bipolar Disorder" cannot be thought away or meditated away. I tried for 6 years of daily meditation (averaging of 2 hours) under a well known Zen teacher.

Believing that you can magical heal a physical illness "with the power of your mind" is just an ego trip. If you something like bad vision (such as being near sighted), can you heal yourself by meditation and "thinking the right thoughts?"

We only think that pills are a band aid because we don't realize that mental illnesses like bipolar can in fact be a physical illness. Just because it occurs in an  organ that we perceive to be the seat of our ego doesn't mean that it's not a physical illness.

Being depressed manic in bipolar is not a normal emotion that everyday people experience. To say that is like telling someone who has felt the agony of losing their limb that "Oh yeah, everyone gets little cuts and scrapes now and then. I know what that feels like." It's sort of an ego filled way of putting a smiley face on something you (as a non-bipolar person) do not understand. Label or no label, it doesn't really matter, because it doesn't change the experience. Labels don't need to become you or define you, but they can help doctors in figuring out how to treat you. (I.e. don't confuse the labels "diabetes" with "asthma". The treatments are very different!)

Zen Buddhism is a pretty normal thing. It isn't magical, it doesn't need to be some kind of pie inthe sky lovey dovey "all is light and wondrous" thing. It's just accepting  life and learning how to live it.

Part of that is- if you have bipolar disorder, you got to take your medication. Its not a bandaid and its dangerous and irresponsible for people to say that. There is already a high rate of people with bipolar who stop taking their medications, which can often end in disaster and death from suicide. I've heard of rates of from anywhere from 1/7 to 20% of people with bipolar disorder end their lives in suicide. This disorder is no joke. What does it feel like? The best equivalent is like being intoxicated or on drugs- except you have no choice to stop taking the drugs or the alcohol, because  that's how your brain is normally. And, you don't even KNOW that your brain is not functioning right until you come out of the fog of a bipolar episode.

I am very lucky that my Zen teacher understands this and that he understood this even before I did. Medication keeps people with bipolar sane. If there was no stigma about this, and if it were treated like any other medical illness, this kind of misinformation wouldn't exist.

All in all, I also wish that there was more information about bipolar disorder and Zen Buddhism. All I know is, that Zen Buddhism has personally helped me tremendously.

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Reply from immortal 1
Sep.05.2009
04:50AM EDT 
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I have Atypical Depression, a subclassification of Dysthemia, which I have had since childhood, as long as I can remember.  Its mild depression, but fairly constant.  In a crowd at a party I can have a good time, but then when Im alone again its back to normal.

I have known many people with Bi Polar Disorder.  They have their ups and downs.  No joke intended.  Thats pretty much it.  If youre up you know you will be down, and if youre down you need to remember that you will be up again.  Its predictable.

That means you can cope with it.  When youre up focus on getting things done.  When youre down focus on your meditation and not doing anything.

Ted Turner has Bi Polar condition too, and thats how he built an multi-billion dollar empire of his very own. 

As far as voices in the head go, some of them are not yours.  I have known people here at work that have heard ghosts talk to them, and Im one of them.  As Edgar Cayce would attest, it is possible for disembodied spirits to talk to you.  I take it that way anyway, but then I have a mental condition too. Still, you know from watching Ghost Busters on TV that they are often able to record and play back what ghosts have said, even though it was not audible to the human ear. 

Who knows who is wispering in your ear and you do hear it subconciously.  You dont have to believe or not believe anything, just consider all possibilities.  And remember, some are there to help you, and some just want to yank your chain.

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Reply from immortal 1
Sep.05.2009
04:54AM EDT 
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Sorry, I mean Ghost Hunters on TV, not Ghost Busters.

That show is on the Sci - Fi Channel on Cable, and is very interesting. 

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Reply from shayne
Sep.05.2009
08:27AM EDT 
Email shayne
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Quote: "

Quote: "Shayne ,

 One thing about this site is we can get so personal with each other . Thanx for sharing your experience  man . Let me tell you a little bout me . The reason I sought out Zen practice at all is because my internal monologue one day begain talking to itself and that frightened me to tears one night like ten years ago I considered my mental state always to be very stable  ...there were no voices telling me to do anything but there was free back and forth conversation between my internal voices ...weird to say out loud but reality is reality no matter how odd . SO I sought the advice of my father he has been a nurse my whole life and has delt with some pretty crazy stuff ....he handed me a book called......On love and Work by Joko Beck ...I think that was the title ...anyway it changed my life and I slowly healed my mind .....me this being I harbor in this meat shell That I call me changed itself ....not some being in my heart or some deity or mysterious force . I sat for hours and hours and hours making my internal  ramble stop . I practiced everyday for years . Until finally One day I noticed no more ramble and its been gone ever sense . Not to be all cheesy Im holeyier than tho look how enlightened I am and your not type  ......but I did it man you have the power to change your nero paths in your brain ,,,,to rewire your mind ..you just have to practice and if it takes you a couple years so be it ...medication is a bandaid ....unless you really want something your not goin to go grab it ......stop making excuses man and change yourself make "you" , "I" your self what you want it to be . Your not handed a map or guide for how to live and unless someone cares enough to kick you in the ass a says dude stop being a wuss ...youll just sit there and self loath . your a great person shayne And I hope you find your path man !
"
.........

I know this is an old old post so sorry about that. But, I really believe its important to battle misinformation wherever it is.

"Bipolar Disorder" cannot be thought away or meditated away. I tried for 6 years of daily meditation (averaging of 2 hours) under a well known Zen teacher.

Believing that you can magical heal a physical illness "with the power of your mind" is just an ego trip. If you something like bad vision (such as being near sighted), can you heal yourself by meditation and "thinking the right thoughts?"

We only think that pills are a band aid because we don't realize that mental illnesses like bipolar can in fact be a physical illness. Just because it occurs in an  organ that we perceive to be the seat of our ego doesn't mean that it's not a physical illness.

Being depressed manic in bipolar is not a normal emotion that everyday people experience. To say that is like telling someone who has felt the agony of losing their limb that "Oh yeah, everyone gets little cuts and scrapes now and then. I know what that feels like." It's sort of an ego filled way of putting a smiley face on something you (as a non-bipolar person) do not understand. Label or no label, it doesn't really matter, because it doesn't change the experience. Labels don't need to become you or define you, but they can help doctors in figuring out how to treat you. (I.e. don't confuse the labels "diabetes" with "asthma". The treatments are very different!)

Zen Buddhism is a pretty normal thing. It isn't magical, it doesn't need to be some kind of pie inthe sky lovey dovey "all is light and wondrous" thing. It's just accepting  life and learning how to live it.

Part of that is- if you have bipolar disorder, you got to take your medication. Its not a bandaid and its dangerous and irresponsible for people to say that. There is already a high rate of people with bipolar who stop taking their medications, which can often end in disaster and death from suicide. I've heard of rates of from anywhere from 1/7 to 20% of people with bipolar disorder end their lives in suicide. This disorder is no joke. What does it feel like? The best equivalent is like being intoxicated or on drugs- except you have no choice to stop taking the drugs or the alcohol, because  that's how your brain is normally. And, you don't even KNOW that your brain is not functioning right until you come out of the fog of a bipolar episode.

I am very lucky that my Zen teacher understands this and that he understood this even before I did. Medication keeps people with bipolar sane. If there was no stigma about this, and if it were treated like any other medical illness, this kind of misinformation wouldn't exist.

All in all, I also wish that there was more information about bipolar disorder and Zen Buddhism. All I know is, that Zen Buddhism has personally helped me tremendously.

"
.........
"
.........

yeah when im manic i feel higher then a kite. but its been awhile since i had an episode. depression or manic. i still take my medication. got too. when i am depressed or manic i notice how i feel. then i meditate to control it. meditation works. its still hard though to be honest. to shrug off an illness. but i can actually pull myself of this fog.

i tend to be more manic then depressed.

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Reply from ______
Sep.05.2009
01:07PM EDT 
vertical line I read
under the eye of the Beloved
until the heart is touched
and leaps to flame.
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