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  Twenty monks and one nun, who was named Eshun, were practicing meditation with a certain Zen master. Eshun was very pretty even though her head was shaved and her dress plain. Several monks secretly fell in love with her. One of them wrote... continue...

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→→→→ vertical line TOPIC: MEANINGLESS TALK
vertical line Posted on Jan.03.2008 @ 12:00PM EDT by kelvintan

For Reflection

Bottomless in depth, boundlessly cast, foaming waves flood the sky; how can you determine the current of the water? If you discern the current of the water then you will know the source. If you don't yet know the source, for now I am speaking meaningless talk to you.

But how do you understand this "meaningless talk?' Is it that I tend to criticize people? Is this meaningless talk? Is it that speaking about wordly judgements and comparisons is meaningless talk? This is not the point.

As I see you, you are a sorry bunch. You leap up idly, and nine times out of ten crudely, merely having remembered a useless saying or an outworn speech. When you are confronted with a challenge, though, you cannot clear it up.

Nowadays there's a kind of elder who likes to instruct people by means of saying, like giving out verbal orders in a small village. That is called slandering universal insight. It is truly hard to repent. Why don't you search your own guts? When you are lying sick and helpless on your death bed, none of the sayings you learned all your life will be of any use at all.

Written by Ssu-hsin

With Metta


Go to Latest Reply   Reply to this Topic   Email kelvintan
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Reply from Lynnoh
Jan.03.2008
12:40PM EDT 
Email Lynnoh
vertical line but I don't know what dies, if it can go away while living. what is useless?
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 77698
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Reply from chontri
Jan.03.2008
10:30PM EDT 
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vertical line That old man was a drunkard.  He drank too much.
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 77707
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Reply from Lynnoh
Jan.04.2008
10:37AM EDT 
Email Lynnoh
vertical line "drinking too much makes things crazy" says the six year old, am I his grandmother too?
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 77725
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Reply from chontri
Jan.04.2008
05:52PM EDT 
Email chontri
vertical line Quote: ""drinking too much makes things crazy" says the six year old, am I his grandmother too?"
.........
That old man was a drunkard, but your grandson and you are alcoholics.
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 77730
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Reply from Lynnoh
Jan.04.2008
05:58PM EDT 
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Quote: "Quote: ""drinking too much makes things crazy" says the six year old, am I his grandmother too?"
.........
That old man was a drunkard, but your grandson and you are alcoholics.
"
.........

why say this Chontri?

vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 77731
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Reply from Lynnoh
Jan.04.2008
06:19PM EDT 
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vertical line I can't say anything more, I don't know how
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 77734
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Reply from chontri
Jan.04.2008
07:03PM EDT 
Email chontri
vertical line Quote: "

Quote: "Quote: ""drinking too much makes things crazy" says the six year old, am I his grandmother too?"
.........
That old man was a drunkard, but your grandson and you are alcoholics.
"
.........

why say this Chontri?

"
.........
You are, aren't you? 
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 77736
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Reply from Lynnoh
Jan.04.2008
08:24PM EDT 
Email Lynnoh
vertical line Quote: "Quote: "

Quote: "Quote: ""drinking too much makes things crazy" says the six year old, am I his grandmother too?"
.........
That old man was a drunkard, but your grandson and you are alcoholics.
"
.........

why say this Chontri?

"
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You are, aren't you? "
.........

"
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You are, aren't you? 
"
.........

I can't answer that

vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 77737
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Reply from Lynnoh
Jan.04.2008
08:33PM EDT 
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vertical line being right to these questions does not matter, but it does
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 77738
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Reply from Lynnoh
Jan.04.2008
08:45PM EDT 
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vertical line Chontri, maybe I should not write anymore ..as my daughter looked at my grandson playing and said, "he is now that boy" and listed attributes that someone might consider negative.... if this is a game I don't like it much.
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 77739
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Reply from lehish
Jan.04.2008
09:05PM EDT 
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Quote: "Chontri, maybe I should not write anymore ..as my daughter looked at my grandson playing and said, "he is now that boy" and listed attributes that someone might consider negative.... if this is a game I don't like it much."
.........

which is thought-believed is which will think are seeing

vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 77740
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Reply from Lynnoh
Jan.04.2008
09:31PM EDT 
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vertical line please, when I wrote "I" not write here... it is in reference to Lynn , me, not writing, not Chontri.. just to be clear... and here I m unable to made even this clear with who
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 77741
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Reply from Lynnoh
Jan.04.2008
10:07PM EDT 
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vertical line "what I say, I say... what I don't, I don't"
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 77742
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Reply from lehish
Jan.04.2008
11:22PM EDT 
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Quote: "please, when I wrote "I" not write here... it is in reference to Lynn , me, not writing, not Chontri.. just to be clear... and here I m unable to made even this clear with who"
.........

was referring:

 "as my daughter looked at my grandson playing and said, "he is now that boy" and listed attributes that someone might consider negative.... if this is a game I don't like it much"

vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 77743
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Reply from chontri
Jan.05.2008
01:28AM EDT 
Email chontri
vertical line Quote: "Quote: "Quote: "

Quote: "Quote: ""drinking too much makes things crazy" says the six year old, am I his grandmother too?"
.........
That old man was a drunkard, but your grandson and you are alcoholics.
"
.........

why say this Chontri?

"
.........
You are, aren't you? "
.........

"
.........
You are, aren't you? 
"
.........

I can't answer that

"
.........
Why not?

If you are, just say: "Yes, I am.  What you said is correct."

If you are not, just say: No. I am not.  What you said is wrong."

That's all. 

You couldn't say anything as you told, because you got stuck at the words and thinking too much about them.

If the comment is correct, it cannot not add anything to you or subtract anything from you at all. 

If it is wrong, it cannot add anything to you or subtract anything from you at all. 

You are still what you are or who you are.  You are the Intact Yourself. Why bothered too much by the words.

This is the meaning mentioned in the topic, "A Devil's Advocate."

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Reply from Lynnoh
Jan.05.2008
10:57AM EDT 
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vertical line but..... once upon a time I would have offered you this definition of myself... and it was true... now I cannot offer it to you... and it is true... which one is not true? both?...what would one consider to be wrong... but to offer any definition of...it is wrong..because I have no definitions.. and is wrong because I have defintions. some definitons are meant to last...like "alcoholic" and so...if I offer one up to you that fits this category..it may cause more harm than good... I'd rather be considered a lier..and so I now offer that definition to you.
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Reply from ______
Jan.05.2008
12:19PM EDT 
vertical line Well, you either know each other very intimately, in passing, living in the same street, the same house or you're all out of the same tree. I don't know about your addictions, and the difference between a drunkard and an alcoholic (the eye of the beholder, eh?), or why someone would want to label a six year old kid an alcoholic via an internet message board, on the pretext of being a "devil's advocate". You sound more like the devil himself to me.
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 77761
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Reply from chontri
Jan.05.2008
04:46PM EDT 
Email chontri
vertical line Quote: "but..... once upon a time I would have offered you this definition of myself... and it was true... now I cannot offer it to you... and it is true... which one is not true? both?...what would one consider to be wrong... but to offer any definition of...it is wrong..because I have no definitions.. and is wrong because I have defintions. some definitons are meant to last...like "alcoholic" and so...if I offer one up to you that fits this category..it may cause more harm than good... I'd rather be considered a lier..and so I now offer that definition to you."
.........
ChonTri has been a drunkard for a long time now, and became a forgetful old man since.  Therefore, what you said in the past, he can't remember at all, as you him told that you gave some definition once upon a time.  If so, it was just a definition you made up with words and not the real thing.  If you could see the Real Thing, then you would not get stuck at his words, fell in embarrassment and hurt as you just did above.

If you thoroughly understood this, you could help yourself and your grandson as well.

What he just told you was what he could see of you and not a definition. 

You don't have to offer him any definition at all because he will make it up when he needs, but he prefers to tell what he can see right in front of him than to make up a definition.

In some sense, every of us is of some kind of drunkard or alcoholic.  For example, it is like Mr Stephen when he tried to give some definitions of "Virtue" and how to show it to people

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Reply from Lynnoh
Jan.07.2008
01:36PM EDT 
Email Lynnoh
vertical line the grandson? looked at me? and said, "you were suppose to wake up" and so I asked, "am I asleep?" and he answered "yes"  I place the question marks as it does appear that the grandson I know is also ....I don't know who and the me I know is also... I don't know who...so I'm not even sure the conversation was for and of us two.
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Reply from Lynnoh
Jan.07.2008
01:46PM EDT 
Email Lynnoh
vertical line it's really quiet remarkable
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 77855
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Reply from ______
Jan.07.2008
01:48PM EDT 
vertical line Beautifully remarkable is what it is. Now, I have to get out of these wet clothes.
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 77857
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Reply from Lynnoh
Jan.07.2008
01:51PM EDT 
Email Lynnoh
vertical line cold
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 77859
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Reply from Lynnoh
Jan.07.2008
01:52PM EDT 
Email Lynnoh
vertical line but is not for real?
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 77860
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Reply from ______
Jan.07.2008
02:02PM EDT 
vertical line what?
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 77862
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Reply from ______
Jan.07.2008
02:14PM EDT 
vertical line You're right about the cold though and the wind-chill - I only just lit the fire after emptying the ashcan of ashes - it's 50 something degrees in here and that's how I like it until it's warm and then that's how I like it. Outside, I was wet too, now I'm dry - a visitor called with me wet and in the middle of some jobs - I brought him inside and he didn't take his coat off, it was so cold. He has metal plates in his legs, below the knees, so the blood doesn't circulate too well in his feet, which he said were like blocks of ice. He told me never to get old. When he left, he was looking forward to driving his car with the heater on. How real is that?
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 77865
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Reply from Lynnoh
Jan.07.2008
02:21PM EDT 
Email Lynnoh
vertical line ohhh....
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 77866
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Reply from chontri
Jan.07.2008
05:55PM EDT 
Email chontri
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Quote: "the grandson? looked at me? and said, "you were suppose to wake up" and so I asked, "am I asleep?" and he answered "yes"  I place the question marks as it does appear that the grandson I know is also ....I don't know who and the me I know is also... I don't know who...so I'm not even sure the conversation was for and of us two."
.........
Ms Lynn,

ChonTri would like to stop talking about the matter here.  And you are on your own.

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Reply from Lynnoh
Jan.08.2008
12:07PM EDT 
Email Lynnoh
vertical line I know
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 77898
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