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  One day a monk paid a visit to Tinh Khong (1091-1170), a Vietnamese Zen master,
who was of the tenth generation of Vo Ngon Thong lineage, and asked:
-From old days it was talked about "direct pointing", what does that mean?
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→→→→ vertical line TOPIC: MORALITY
vertical line Posted on Feb.04.2008 @ 12:30PM EDT by Nick..
Excuse my ignorance:

    My understanding is that all life and all things in existence value existence and therefore want to continue to exist.
    Non attachment seems to suggest that the ideal state would be one in which we are not attached to anything especially our own selves and our physical life.
   
    My question comes from the 5 precepts, which I understand as the moral code of Buddhism. " I will be mindful and reverential with all life, I will not be violent nor will I kill." I copied this from gardenzen.com. I'm sorry to say that all of my understanding of Buddhism comes from books and websites and to a lesser extent experience.
    If the point of Buddhism is non attachment how can this precept justify respecting the attachments of other living beings. I understand that it is good to be respectful of others attachments but does it really matter?
    If life and death are not important, as my limited understanding suggests, then killing wouldn't be bad. Action doesn't need anything extra attached to it, by which I mean good or bad. Action is just action. Killing is just killing and is neither good nor bad but just is.
    When put in the delema of whether to kill or not to kill traditional morals suggest not killing is better choice but my understanding of buddhism would suggest that it doesn't matter. If it truly doesn't matter then I am led to the conclusion that zen is beyond  morality altogether. If this is true why do the 5 precepts exist?
    Thank you for your time.

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Reply from ______
Feb.04.2008
12:48PM EDT 
vertical line Problems of the mind.
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 78700
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Reply from -----0
Feb.04.2008
01:48PM EDT 
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The precepts are not needed by the Enlightened One, whose perfection enables him to act accordingly without any intention. The precepts are for ignorant ones who follow the path by imitating sages.

If you are enlightened, you don't kill.
If you are not, then follow the precepts and don't kill.

vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 78701
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Reply from 9999999
Feb.04.2008
03:51PM EDT 
Email 9999999
vertical line enlightened or not,
dont follow the precepts

enlightened or not,
these things dont matter

enlightened or not,
no such thing as morality

enlightened or not,
how do you know you are right now? AND WHO THE CLUCK IS ASKING?
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 78706
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Reply from lehish
Feb.04.2008
04:40PM EDT 
Email lehish
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vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 78709
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Reply from ______
Feb.04.2008
05:08PM EDT 
vertical line Your starter for ten.........Bong!!
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 78711
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Reply from A_Pict
Feb.04.2008
08:52PM EDT 
vertical line Doesn't Karma come into play here? The law of cause and effect?
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 78719
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Reply from 77 zen ror
Feb.04.2008
09:24PM EDT 
Email 77 zen ror
vertical line You are so right.  It would be for the best way for you to understand all this Nick is look in to the 4 noble turth,8 fold path in any Zen book,Rosei, jojo bock, Nic Tan Man,Very good reading. Good luck to you. RORY
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Reply from stephen
Feb.05.2008
11:49AM EDT 
Email stephen
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" I will be mindful and reverential with all life, I will not be violent nor will I kill."

This to stop your suffering. Buddhism does not say these things are bad but rather they screw with your head. If you are violent or would be a killer this is not mindfulness but rather your monkey mind. There is no judgment here. It is about being able to find and follow the path. MU

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Reply from 9999999
Feb.05.2008
03:25PM EDT 
Email 9999999
vertical line wanting to kick someone in the head

thats it.
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 78723
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Reply from zbishak
Feb.06.2008
05:18AM EDT 
Email zbishak
vertical line How does the survival instinct  value itself or existence?
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 78724
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Reply from lehish
Feb.06.2008
06:09AM EDT 
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Quote: "How does the survival instinct  value itself or existence?"
.........

what existence ?

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Reply from zbishak
Feb.06.2008
06:33AM EDT 
Email zbishak
vertical line your unknown one that nick did mention
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Reply from lehish
Feb.06.2008
07:13AM EDT 
Email lehish
vertical line not that
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Reply from 9999999
Feb.06.2008
04:23PM EDT 
Email 9999999
vertical line Quote: "How does the survival instinct  value itself or existence?"
.........

it doesnt.

if see it, then see it.
if dont see it, then dont see it.

whatever is there is there
and whatever is not there, is also there too

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Reply from lehish
Feb.06.2008
06:32PM EDT 
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thinking existence
will see as if an existence

no thinking that.
no seeing as if a that

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Reply from 9999999
Feb.06.2008
07:33PM EDT 
Email 9999999
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lehish sounds like delish
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Reply from zbishak
Feb.07.2008
03:05AM EDT 
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>>>>(Not that)<<<

you would have got from the existance you were seeking,

bish is happy you found it:-)

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Reply from lehish
Feb.07.2008
04:05AM EDT 
Email lehish
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thanking...but "not that" was referring to:

Quote: "your unknown one that nick did mention"
.........

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Reply from lehish
Feb.07.2008
04:10AM EDT 
Email lehish
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>>>>(Not that)<<<

you would have got from the existance you were seeking,

bish is happy you found it:-)

"
.........

"
.........

:)

bish lehish didn't get from any thing

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Reply from lehish
Feb.07.2008
04:16AM EDT 
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Quote: "lehish sounds like delish"
.........

deHAlish :)

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Reply from 9999999
Feb.07.2008
05:08AM EDT 
Email 9999999
vertical line deHAlish
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Reply from lehish
Feb.07.2008
05:29AM EDT 
Email lehish
vertical line :)
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Reply from ______
Feb.07.2008
08:34AM EDT 
vertical line Quote: "

Quote: "How does the survival instinct  value itself or existence?"
.........


what existence ?

"
.........
Existence is and you are not, even when you're standing in between someone and existence.
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Reply from stephen
Feb.07.2008
11:46AM EDT 
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Quote: "How does the survival instinct  value itself or existence?"
.........

Did not one of the Buddhas feed himself to a tiger because it was starving? MU

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Reply from Lynnoh
Feb.07.2008
02:45PM EDT 
Email Lynnoh
vertical line Quote: "

Quote: "How does the survival instinct  value itself or existence?"
.........

Did not one of the Buddhas feed himself to a tiger because it was starving? MU

"
.........

"
.........

but did the Buddha die from it?

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Reply from lehish
Feb.07.2008
05:01PM EDT 
Email lehish
vertical line Quote: "Quote: "

Quote: "How does the survival instinct  value itself or existence?"
.........


what existence ?

"
.........
Existence is and you are not, even when you&apos;re standing in between someone and existence. "
.........

"
.........
Existence is and you are not, even when you&apos;re standing in between someone and existence.
"
.........

if you not, there's not imagining there's an existence

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Reply from ______
Feb.08.2008
09:07AM EDT 
vertical line Existence is; you are not.
~Osho

Existence-'you'=awareness.
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Reply from 9999999
Feb.08.2008
09:18AM EDT 
Email 9999999
vertical line close but no cigar


but both are SPOT ON whether liking it or not
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Reply from lehish
Feb.08.2008
09:26AM EDT 
Email lehish
vertical line liking what or not?
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Reply from lehish
Feb.08.2008
09:28AM EDT 
Email lehish
vertical line oingoboingo
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Reply from Snibbler
Feb.08.2008
02:20PM EDT 
vertical line Quote: "Quote: "

Quote: "How does the survival instinct  value itself or existence?"
.........

Did not one of the Buddhas feed himself to a tiger because it was starving? MU

"
.........

"
.........

but did the Buddha die from it?

"
.........

Naahh, just a flesh wound. It was an ittybitty tiger you see... :)
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Reply from 9999999
Feb.08.2008
02:39PM EDT 
Email 9999999
vertical line if there happens to be a liking or not liking---it ok..
if there is no liking--then it ok!
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Reply from Snibbler
Feb.09.2008
10:07AM EDT 
vertical line Quote: "

Quote: "How does the survival instinct  value itself or existence?"
.........

Did not one of the Buddhas feed himself to a tiger because it was starving? MU

"
.........

Which one? The same jat killed a sailor to stop him from murdering anymore people?..

Mø
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Reply from lehish
Feb.09.2008
11:36AM EDT 
Email lehish
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Quote: "if there happens to be a liking or not liking---it ok..
if there is no liking--then it ok!
"
.........

liking or not liking what? ;)

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Reply from 9999999
Feb.09.2008
04:06PM EDT 
Email 9999999
vertical line Quote: "

Quote: "if there happens to be a liking or not liking---it ok..
if there is no liking--then it ok!
"
.........

liking or not liking what? ;)

"
.........

OOooOoOoHHhhhHH nothing really
 
;D ;D ;D
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Reply from lehish
Feb.09.2008
06:09PM EDT 
Email lehish
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aH :D ooOoO :D oOoook :D:D:D 

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Reply from ______
Feb.10.2008
08:24AM EDT 
vertical line Never mind the bollocks, this is the, the, the - oh yeah sorry, you're all bollocks.
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