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  Posted on Aug.10.2009 @ 11:40PM EDT by chontri
Accept my words only when you have examined them for yourselves;
do not accept them simply because of the reverence you have for me.
Those who only have faith in me and affection... continue...

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→→→→ vertical line TOPIC: TO RORY: A SERIOUS QUESTION
vertical line Posted on Feb.26.2008 @ 01:22AM EDT by A_Pict
Rory...

You have written many times of having achieved sobriety.

How?

I have been a drunkard for most of this existence...

I must stop this cycle...

I am lost...

I must find the answer for myself, but I know not where to begin....

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Reply from stephen
Feb.26.2008
10:09AM EDT 
Email stephen
vertical line I am not rory but I was an active drunk........http://hindsfoot.org/barbudd.html
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 79025
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Reply from 77 zen ror
Feb.26.2008
07:33PM EDT 
Email 77 zen ror
vertical line Hi, This is me Rory. You need to go to A.A. in your town. It's gone to be hard but it will be the best thing in your life that you did for your self. Like me sober over 10 years and no job. But I stay sober. You got to do this for you. Tell the group your a new comer. And you want to get sober, help. 1000 like mewill help you. Rory
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Reply from A_Pict
Feb.26.2008
10:23PM EDT 
vertical line Thank you both.

Today is my first full day of sobriety.

I've got my fruit juice and my tea. And I've got a cat that demands constant attention - She's good at keeping me preoccupied.

My mind is screaming at me right now, but I expected that to happen.

I've got plenty to do around here to keep myself busy. A lot of de-cluttering around the house. A lot of stuff I should have hauled out to the trash years ago. The same applies to the clutter in my head.
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Reply from 77 zen ror
Feb.26.2008
11:17PM EDT 
Email 77 zen ror
vertical line You neaver have to drink aging , Just know you can reach out for help. Be good to your self. Don't let go of hope. Fine other sober people. You well see a new life of not drinking one day @ a time. Love Rory.
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Reply from boopoom
Feb.27.2008
02:03AM EDT 
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cheers,

love,boopoom

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Reply from 77 zen ror
Feb.27.2008
03:34PM EDT 
Email 77 zen ror
vertical line Whats up. Good to see QQ you boom.
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 79042
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Reply from ______
Feb.29.2008
11:02AM EDT 
vertical line Bottoms. Bottoms up!
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 79060
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Reply from 77 zen ror
Mar.06.2008
07:44PM EDT 
Email 77 zen ror
vertical line Are you staying sober pic. Going to meetings. Whats going on with you. RORY
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 79268
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Reply from A_Pict
Mar.06.2008
10:40PM EDT 
vertical line 10-days sober now.

No meetings. Just myself and my friends. And the cats. I've been learning a lot from the cats.

I've decided that my addiction was nothing more than a strong craving brought about by desire and confusion. Eliminate the desire, work on the confusion and, the craving goes away. As the craving goes away, so does the addiction.

Sounds good in theory, anyway.

I still have thoughts of a drink from time to time, but that is because I haven't fully detoxed my mind yet. I have my tea and my lemonade so, I'm good. :)

Calm is slowly returning. It feels good.

Still haven't found a suitable place in our apartment to meditate. Not much floor-space. Still need to declutter and free-up some space.

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Reply from Woodsman
Mar.06.2008
11:27PM EDT 
Email Woodsman
vertical line One never stops mindfulness. Went out today for a long ski, walked the dogs, now wood carving/burning wooden balls that roll down a wooden tube spelling "EARTH" into a canoe shaped trough. It's the only  "meditation" I  "give" the whole day.
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Reply from 77 zen ror
Mar.07.2008
05:59PM EDT 
Email 77 zen ror
vertical line Good job A-pit. But wite nucking you will not make it. I'm not being mean here. I been around A.A. For over 10 years People who don't go to meetings drink anging. People who go to meetings stay sober and live a sober life. Find a good places were you can do some Zenen. A park, church, a meeting. Don't give up on your hope. Rory
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Reply from A_Pict
Mar.07.2008
08:48PM EDT 
vertical line So, what you are saying is that the only people who can quit the alcohol addiction are those who go to A.A. meetings? That is precisely what A.A. wants you to believe. Is it truth? Only if you perceive it to be true. Otherwise, it is meaningless.

I have my reasons for not going to such meetings therefore, I must disagree with you.

I don't need a meeting to put the bottle down. I've put the bottle down. It's down. It stays down. Nothing else to be said on the matter.

I refer you to a link Stephen posted earlier in the thread:
http://hindsfoot.org/barbudd.html

I haven't given up. Have you?

I thank all who responded to my plea for assistance. The rest is something I must do on my own.


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Reply from lehish
Mar.07.2008
11:13PM EDT 
Email lehish
vertical line gassho
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Reply from A_Pict
Mar.08.2008
12:00PM EDT 
vertical line namaste :)

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Reply from lehish
Mar.08.2008
03:08PM EDT 
Email lehish
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:)

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Reply from 77 zen ror
Mar.08.2008
03:25PM EDT 
Email 77 zen ror
vertical line I just wanted to be a kind heart to you. Buy helping you I help myself stay sober. Good luck to you . And I'm here for you if you need guidness. Rory in cal.
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Reply from lehish
Mar.08.2008
03:38PM EDT 
Email lehish
vertical line it appears from which was posted, a_pict isn't seeking dependening on a human for this, rory :)
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Reply from lehish
Mar.08.2008
03:41PM EDT 
Email lehish
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Quote: "it appears from which was posted, a_pict isn't seeking dependening on a human for this, rory :)"
.........

saying it appears isn't seeking,  a human to use

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Reply from 77 zen ror
Mar.08.2008
04:21PM EDT 
Email 77 zen ror
vertical line I see all that. As for all the time I been on Zen guid. I give all my compassion/kindness to the topic. I wish him well. But he need to come honest with him self. Just as I did over 10 years ago. A person can't get sober all on his own he needs a sprit a subort group. Not his drinking buddys. You just need to change one thing thats you. Look I been in your shoes. I'm not beening mean. I tell the turth.
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Reply from lehish
Mar.08.2008
04:48PM EDT 
Email lehish
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Quote: "he needs a sprit a subort group."

......

you can't know that, dear :)

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Reply from A_Pict
Mar.08.2008
05:48PM EDT 
vertical line Quote: "I see all that. As for all the time I been on Zen guid. I give all my compassion/kindness to the topic. I wish him well. But he need to come honest with him self. Just as I did over 10 years ago. A person can't get sober all on his own he needs a sprit a subort group. Not his drinking buddys. You just need to change one thing thats you. Look I been in your shoes. I'm not beening mean. I tell the turth."
.........

I have no 'drinking buddys' therefore, that is not a concern.

I appreciate what you are saying, but what you are offering is, to me, an "absolute". What I hear you saying is that 'if you don't, absolutely, do what I say, you will fail'. A.A. is full of 'absolutes'. I've been to a few meetings with my father many years ago. I do know how they treat people. A.A. is designed to make the alcoholic feel guilty about themselves and their being. A.A. makes the alcoholic think that if the 'absolute' is not accomplished, they will fail. The 12-steps are 'absolutes' that 'must be accomplished or you will fail'. Many also rely on the Christian 'God' to help pull them through. A crutch.

I do not believe in the Christian 'God' nor do I believe in absolutes.

You say I just need to change one thing, me. I am not changing me. I am changing my actions and perceptions to the world around me. If that changes 'me' then so be it.

You have chosen what works for you. Good. I choose not to follow the same 'path'. I am being 'honest with myself' even if you do not see it.

I say it is possible to quit the addiction as the addiction is a state of mind, not a state of being. I have identified the addiction. Now, i am looking within myself to identify the cause of the addiction. What caused me to fall into its clutches in the first place; identify that cause; understand that cause; then work to prevent that cause from happening again. In so doing, I find out more about myself and the world around me.

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Reply from ______
Mar.09.2008
11:37AM EDT 
vertical line I don't know what you, he, she or anyone else needs. Your addictions are your business. Now, it may be stating the obvious, but I see the drinking of alcohol excessively (to the point where it is perceived as illness), as an external (confused) expression of an inner need.

Realising what that need is doesn't require any 'outside' thing, agency or person to help you get rid of it, suppress it or renounce it. (There are no 12 steps to sobriety, no 8 fold paths to any number of truths, no 3 steps to heaven.) On the contrary, to renounce an addiction means you will remain attached to it for ever. It's like someone putting a poster on their ignore list, the messages have seemingly disappeared from the forum, but the object of the ignoring remains, safe and sound and comfortable in the ignore list.

I don't know how this works but an addiction can be offered up as a sacrifice, without any excuses that we can't meditate. If you have lost your key, you may go around looking for the key, saying, "I've lost my key." What happens is the whole of creation, the universe, which lives in you says, "Ok, we are helping him lose his key; let's get to it." However, if when you have lost your key, you are still and not-doing, and you say, "I find my key", creation will find your key. Give the external expression to creation, to your inner need, mindfully, in total awareness - this is a total action in which the universe is fulfilling your need and no karma remains.
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Reply from Woodsman
Mar.09.2008
12:09PM EDT 
Email Woodsman
vertical line Something has to take the place of the drink. If we consider drinking to be a process, then there is a beginning, middle and end to it. So as processes go, stepping out of it requires a form of detachment, first from the drink as being seen, thought of as something positive. We don't need to attach a negative to it. Nothing needs to be attached to the past, but now we are looking at a habitual form of denial. And as a habituation there are set ways of relating which have been established from the past. One can use any addiction as a means of awakening, and believe me there are lots of them. Don't believe me. Even writing can be an addiction, as is thinking, or talk can be one. One can even use Zen as an addiction, if one considers the set pattern of a formal practice.
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Reply from ______
Mar.09.2008
12:15PM EDT 
vertical line Believe what you want. You can think yourself into all kinds of beliefs. All belief is addiction; belief is habit of thought. However, what I'm saying doesn't have anything to do with beliefs, or with something taking the place of something else.
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Reply from stephen
Mar.10.2008
12:34PM EDT 
Email stephen
vertical line Quote: "Quote: "I see all that. As for all the time I been on Zen guid. I give all my compassion/kindness to the topic. I wish him well. But he need to come honest with him self. Just as I did over 10 years ago. A person can't get sober all on his own he needs a sprit a subort group. Not his drinking buddys. You just need to change one thing thats you. Look I been in your shoes. I'm not beening mean. I tell the turth."
.........

I have no 'drinking buddys' therefore, that is not a concern.

I appreciate what you are saying, but what you are offering is, to me, an "absolute". What I hear you saying is that 'if you don't, absolutely, do what I say, you will fail'. A.A. is full of 'absolutes'. I've been to a few meetings with my father many years ago. I do know how they treat people. A.A. is designed to make the alcoholic feel guilty about themselves and their being. A.A. makes the alcoholic think that if the 'absolute' is not accomplished, they will fail. The 12-steps are 'absolutes' that 'must be accomplished or you will fail'. Many also rely on the Christian 'God' to help pull them through. A crutch.

I do not believe in the Christian 'God' nor do I believe in absolutes.

You say I just need to change one thing, me. I am not changing me. I am changing my actions and perceptions to the world around me. If that changes 'me' then so be it.

You have chosen what works for you. Good. I choose not to follow the same 'path'. I am being 'honest with myself' even if you do not see it.

I say it is possible to quit the addiction as the addiction is a state of mind, not a state of being. I have identified the addiction. Now, i am looking within myself to identify the cause of the addiction. What caused me to fall into its clutches in the first place; identify that cause; understand that cause; then work to prevent that cause from happening again. In so doing, I find out more about myself and the world around me.

"
.........

“Slow down, your moving to fast, got to make the morning last.” You can and will stop drinking any way you want. There are people out there who will help you. AA Nazis are a real thing and should be avoided; however, there are people around who are gentler and kinder who will help you if you ask. Many of them are in AA halls. If the word god turns you off use the word emptiness. If the word emptiness turns you off use the words shit stick. Get some distances between you and the demon addiction. MU

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Reply from 77 zen ror
Mar.10.2008
06:12PM EDT 
Email 77 zen ror
vertical line Love sweet love. People willing to help. I like it.
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 79420
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Reply from 77 zen ror
Mar.17.2008
07:04PM EDT 
Email 77 zen ror
vertical line Are you staying Sober?
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Reply from A_Pict
Mar.18.2008
02:41AM EDT 
vertical line Yup

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Reply from 77 zen ror
Mar.18.2008
06:09PM EDT 
Email 77 zen ror
vertical line Good to see that. Be good to your self. See a world change in front of you with out a drink. Rember just for to day. I will not drink use or pick up. A man who walk in your shoes and cares. 77 Zen ror. Rory
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