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→→→→ vertical line TOPIC: KENSHO
vertical line Posted on Mar.15.2008 @ 04:10AM EDT by asheera

Kensho is a Buddhist term for the feeling that you are of universal proportions.  It is a feeling that can come over you at any time, and is a glimse into your true nature as Buddha.

I had Kensho many times.  Always wondered why it came and went, and why I had to wait so long in between.  I think I have come to understand.

Its like when you blow up a long balloon.  Its hard at first, and then gets easier.

The first time it just sort of fills up like a ball at the start, and then you pause to take a breath. 

The next time, the part you filled earlier fills right up and you are able to fill it some more  before you run out of air again.

Each time you try to blow up the balloon the part that you filled earlier fills right up and you can fill it somemore, until finally it is filled to the end and you have Satori.

Take it or leave it.  That's my story and I' m sticking to it.

(You can't exect people to understand experiences that they have not had.  So I don't.  I'm sure the usual nay sayers will chime in, so please let me flip them off in advance.  (You suck. ESAD.  FOAD.))


Go to Latest Reply   Reply to this Topic   Email asheera
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Reply from 9999999
Mar.15.2008
04:44AM EDT 
Email 9999999
vertical line hahaha
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 79674
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Reply from ______
Mar.15.2008
09:00AM EDT 
vertical line Ye gods. So that's what you think.

If one were in a thoughtless state, in silence, in what you are labelling 'kensho', 'satori', the 'you' would have no way of knowing because the 'you' would not exist - this is a state of 'not-knowing'. If one is able to report 'having kensho' as an experience, a 'feeling that went away' so that one becomes 'normal' again, the 'you' is acting as a translator of sensations, and has experienced something measurably different from the usual ('normal') perceptions.
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Reply from shayne
Mar.16.2008
02:09AM EDT 
Email shayne
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sure ive had this feeling before. feeling larger then life. where every breath counts. every movement is from a being of infinite proportions.

but i shrug it off as just a feeling. something i create that comes from within. a feeling.

so thats my take on it.

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Reply from shayne
Mar.16.2008
03:35AM EDT 
Email shayne
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we are not a car.

we are not a tv.

we are not seperate from this life.

but that doesn mean the soul is this life.

the energy of the self is contained within the energy of the being.

when i left my body it was no differant save i couldnt be seen.

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Reply from -----0
Mar.16.2008
07:49AM EDT 
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Quote: "I had Kensho many times.  Always wondered why it came and went, and why I had to wait so long in between.  I think I have come to understand.

Its like when you blow up a long balloon. . . "
.........

It is the analysis that kills the experience, that's why you have to wait so long between them.

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Reply from Woodsman
Mar.16.2008
08:49AM EDT 
vertical line He He He's there.
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Reply from ______
Mar.16.2008
09:23AM EDT 
vertical line Has the kensho gone away?
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 79731
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Reply from Woodsman
Mar.16.2008
09:44AM EDT 
vertical line S he has not ing
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 79736
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Reply from Woodsman
Mar.16.2008
09:51AM EDT 
vertical line "Sky sheds tears, but has no time to tell us anything now. "
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 79737
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Reply from Woodsman
Mar.16.2008
09:53AM EDT 
vertical line "S y shds tears, but has o time to tell u anyting nw. "

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Reply from ______
Mar.16.2008
09:55AM EDT 
vertical line ting
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 79739
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Reply from asheera
Mar.18.2008
08:21AM EDT 
Email asheera
vertical line Quote: "

Quote: "I had Kensho many times.  Always wondered why it came and went, and why I had to wait so long in between.  I think I have come to understand.

Its like when you blow up a long balloon. . . "
.........

It is the analysis that kills the experience, that's why you have to wait so long between them.

"
.........

"
.........

I know.  Same here.  Everytime I had such an experience I would want another so much that the hope and expectation blocked it I suppose.

Then I would tire, and quit trying, and another would soon arrive, better, deeper, and richer than before.

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Reply from asheera
Mar.18.2008
08:38AM EDT 
Email asheera
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Quote: "Has the kensho gone away?"
.........

So you're just here with your opinions and haven't actually done any studying of Buddhist principles, eh.  Oh, good for you.  Well, please do some homework, or something, before raising your hand.

The whole thing about Kensho is that it does go away. It is like a feeling that is a glimse of your universal being.  Buddha, as it were.

After however many Kensho experiences a person may have, then one attains Satori, which is considered not to be eternal, since nothing is permanent, but to last the rest of your life at least.  How long you last, or in what form, or forms, is up to Buddha.

You don't have to believe any of this.  I do, because I'm a Buddhist, and because it is what I have experienced myself.  But I didn't start out meditating as a Buddhist.  For many years I just said I was an Agnostic.  I read and studied everything I could get my hands on pertaining to metaphysics.  Its because I had these experiences that I became a Buddhist.

No one said that you had to be a Buddhist to be here.  Chon Tri and his son Alan say that anyone can come here and say anything they want.  Yeah, so go ahead.

Maybe instead of driving for a 'nothing mind' experience that you insist upon, you might try an 'open mind' experience and let Buddha fill in the rest.  Its a lot more fun.

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Reply from ______
Mar.18.2008
03:19PM EDT 
vertical line Raise my hand? hmmmm...so what do you want me to do about it or is it a cv you're after?
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Reply from Woodsman
Mar.18.2008
03:50PM EDT 
vertical line I am the tower of babble.
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Reply from boymonk
Mar.18.2008
04:11PM EDT 
vertical line A balloon is full of hot air, HAHa!
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Reply from 9999999
Mar.18.2008
05:38PM EDT 
Email 9999999
vertical line blAH HAlb blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah 
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Reply from ______
Mar.18.2008
05:49PM EDT 
vertical line I don't know what he wants me to do about it. 
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Reply from asheera
Mar.19.2008
03:47AM EDT 
Email asheera
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Quote: "I don't know what he wants me to do about it. "
.........

I'm saying that your opinions are not backed up.

I think if you come to a Zen Buddhist site you should know something about it.  Not everything, but certainly something.

If you want to say that Buddhism is not good, go ahead, but you should be able to say why it is wrong, rather than just that it doesn't jibe with your own belief system, whatever that is.

Otherwise you are just a heckler in a comedy club.  Big deal.

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Reply from asheera
Mar.19.2008
03:58AM EDT 
Email asheera
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Quote: "Ye gods. So that's what you think.

If one were in a thoughtless state, in silence, in what you are labelling 'kensho', 'satori', the 'you' would have no way of knowing because the 'you' would not exist - this is a state of 'not-knowing'. If one is able to report 'having kensho' as an experience, a 'feeling that went away' so that one becomes 'normal' again, the 'you' is acting as a translator of sensations, and has experienced something measurably different from the usual ('normal') perceptions.
"
.........

I doubt if you have ever attained a thoughtless state, in silence, in your zazen practice.

I have, many times, still do, and have maintained that state for hours.  So what?  I'd rather have a wet dream anytime.

I think you have a long way to go.   You think you know something, and that in itself is proof that you don't.  But what bothers me is that you want to hold me to your erroneous standard.  And I'm sure you feel the same way, because you believe you are right. 

I'm not right or wrong.  I don't have an answer to the unaswerable question.  I just have to go with whatever is going on at the moment, like this right now for instance.

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Reply from asheera
Mar.19.2008
04:07AM EDT 
Email asheera
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If you disagree, then at least look up Kensho and say why you disagree.

If you don't do at least that, and instead just spout jibberish, then I have no choice but to conclude that you are a moron.

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Reply from lehish
Mar.19.2008
06:36AM EDT 
Email lehish
vertical line Quote: " I doubt if you have ever attained a thoughtless state, in silence, in your zazen practice.

I have, many times, still do, and have maintained that state for hours." 
.........


.........

"do" ?

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Reply from lehish
Mar.19.2008
06:46AM EDT 
Email lehish
vertical line Quote: "

If you disagree, then at least look up Kensho and say why you disagree.

If you don't do at least that, and instead just spout jibberish, then I have no choice but to conclude that you are a moron."

.........


.........

since you posted you understand chon tri pointing:

In whichever case - as mentioned above - the words in the "CT's Collected Words" section were no way the teaching to anyone about anything or a golden ruler to measure anything or to evaluate anyone. So, do not waste your time in taking them as something to chew, to argue, to debate or to criticize... If you do so, it would not be good at all to yourself or to the ones who used those words and would get yourself in confusion or waste your time in vain.

All of those words were just a means to communicate to some friends in some cases, no more no less. In other words, they were like a tool, when as friends - no one here is a teacher or a student of the other - we got together and used words as a means to convey what we have examined or explored or discovered ourselves and things around us and learned from that. This did not mean what others often refer to as "enlightenment" or "satori".

Take care,

ChonTri

vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 79864
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Reply from ______
Mar.19.2008
07:22AM EDT 
vertical line He went away a 9 and came back a perfect ignorant ten.
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 79865
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Reply from ______
Mar.19.2008
07:31AM EDT 
vertical line Finding an identity and a set of beliefs, complete with a full range of technical terms, can seem very comforting and worth holding on to, then rigor mortis sets in - Buddhist orthodoxy is as rigid as any orthodoxy.
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 79866
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Reply from ______
Mar.19.2008
07:57AM EDT 
vertical line I appreciate that this can seem tedious but I'm not particularly interested in what you believe about what someone said, or don't believe, (your beliefs and unbeliefs are your business), or to explain anything about who you believe me to be, what you think I should look up, what you doubt I have attained, how far you think I have to go, your conclusion that I am a moron or what knowledge you think I don't have or do have. Does that cover everything?
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Reply from boymonk
Mar.19.2008
03:41PM EDT 
vertical line I never had a Kensho myself, my mother held that it was unseemly for a boy to play with dolls. :D
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Reply from Woodsman
Mar.19.2008
03:49PM EDT 
vertical line Ah, sorry, that's qualifies it, that doll was thou's Kensho. Or if you ever have seen Ken Wilber, that was a Ken Show, believe me, then you won't have to look.
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 79911
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Reply from boymonk
Mar.19.2008
04:36PM EDT 
vertical line Who's thou?
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 79914
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Reply from 9999999
Mar.19.2008
06:18PM EDT 
Email 9999999
vertical line Quote: "

If you disagree, then at least look up Kensho and say why you disagree.

If you don't do at least that, and instead just spout jibberish, then I have no choice but to conclude that you are a moron.

"
.........
pinky stoo hoo ped.
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 79918
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Reply from 9999999
Mar.19.2008
06:20PM EDT 
Email 9999999
vertical line ahaaaaaaaaaa

look at meeee
im gooooood
im important
i have something to say about everything!
i recognize things!
i am real! i swear!


hahahahaha
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 79919
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Reply from Woodsman
Mar.19.2008
07:33PM EDT 
vertical line Quote: "Who's thou?"
.........

What isn't? beyond

                      


                                                         beyond





                              










                                                                                                                               beyond






















                                                                                                                                           be
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Reply from lehish
Mar.19.2008
08:05PM EDT 
Email lehish
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not a 'where' to "beyond"

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Reply from boymonk
Mar.19.2008
08:23PM EDT 
vertical line What she said :)
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Reply from Woodsman
Mar.19.2008
09:34PM EDT 
vertical line i jus coulda said "yump"


                                                       um








                                                                                                 um













                                                                                                                       um















                                                                                                                                p
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Reply from Woodsman
Mar.19.2008
09:40PM EDT 
vertical line jes, youz right, it a flow










                                                                                    flow
















                                                                                                 flow









                                                        flow







                     flow







           flow







                                   flow







                                                         flow








                                                                                          flow











                                                                  flow












                                                                         flow











                                                                          err, is human

                                                                     forgive, divine
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Reply from asheera
Mar.20.2008
10:45AM EDT 
Email asheera
vertical line

Quote: "Who's thou?"
.........

Yes, well, when I get the log out of my eye I may offer to help with your splinter.

But Woodsy is better trained to help us both.

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Reply from Woodsman
Mar.20.2008
10:47AM EDT 
vertical line Quote: "

Quote: "Who's thou?"
.........

Yes, well, when I get the log out of my eye I may offer to help with your splinter.

But Woodsy is better trained to help us both.

"
.........

I'm nobody, just an ant, which is thou.
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 79953
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Reply from asheera
Mar.20.2008
11:03AM EDT 
Email asheera
vertical line Quote: "Quote: "

If you disagree, then at least look up Kensho and say why you disagree.

If you don't do at least that, and instead just spout jibberish, then I have no choice but to conclude that you are a moron."

.........


.........

since you posted you understand chon tri pointing:

In whichever case - as mentioned above - the words in the "CT's Collected Words" section were no way the teaching to anyone about anything or a golden ruler to measure anything or to evaluate anyone. So, do not waste your time in taking them as something to chew, to argue, to debate or to criticize... If you do so, it would not be good at all to yourself or to the ones who used those words and would get yourself in confusion or waste your time in vain.

All of those words were just a means to communicate to some friends in some cases, no more no less. In other words, they were like a tool, when as friends - no one here is a teacher or a student of the other - we got together and used words as a means to convey what we have examined or explored or discovered ourselves and things around us and learned from that. This did not mean what others often refer to as "enlightenment" or "satori".

Take care,

ChonTri

"
......... I hope your references don't stop at those provided here at this site.

"
......... I hope your references don't stop at those provided here at this site.

They are very good, and Chon Tri and Alan should accept praise for this site.

But one should consult as many references as one possibly can, in order to cross compare the expressions of different systems and ideas.

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Reply from boymonk
Mar.20.2008
01:31PM EDT 
vertical line Yeah, shop around and thou'st shall attain thy BestBuy!
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Reply from Woodsman
Mar.20.2008
03:59PM EDT 
vertical line God for sale! I mean gods! What else is new?
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Reply from lehish
Mar.20.2008
06:45PM EDT 
Email lehish
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Quote: "i jus coulda said "yump"

.......

yes you could've if were thinking- a-'where' to jump ;)




                                                

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Reply from lehish
Mar.20.2008
06:47PM EDT 
Email lehish
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Quote: "jes, youz right, it a flow










                                                                                    flow
















                                                                                                 flow









                                                        flow







                     flow







           flow







                                   flow







                                                         flow








                                                                                          flow











                                                                  flow












                                                                         flow











                                                                          err, is human

                                                                     forgive, divine
"
.........

love doesn't need to forgive

vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 79976
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Reply from lehish
Mar.20.2008
06:50PM EDT 
Email lehish
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Quote: "But one should consult as many references as one possibly can, in order to cross compare the expressions of different systems and ideas."

.........

ideaing-systems may seem as if necessary if is imagined is

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Reply from Woodsman
Mar.20.2008
07:24PM EDT 
vertical line Quote: "

Quote: "jes, youz right, it a flow










                                                                                    flow
















                                                                                                 flow









                                                        flow







                     flow







           flow







                                   flow







                                                         flow








                                                                                          flow











                                                                  flow












                                                                         flow











                                                                          err, is human

                                                                     forgive, divine
"
.........

love doesn't need to forgive

"
.........

then thou art divine, in all
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 79980
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