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→→→→ vertical line TOPIC: ATTAINING THE ZEN MIND
vertical line Posted on Mar.16.2008 @ 11:04AM EDT by glorymind

How does one "carry Zen every minute" as mentioned in the Koan below?

Merely suggesting that there is no "one" to "carry Zen" does not change one's mental habbits.

Every-Minute Zen

Zen students are with their masters at least ten years before they presume to teach others. Nan-in was visited by Tenno, who, having passed his apprenticeship, had become a teacher. The day happened to be rainy, so Tenno wore wooden clogs and carried an umbrella. After greeting him Nan-in remarked: "I suppose you left your wodden clogs in the vestibule. I want to know if your umbrella is on the right or left side of the clogs."

Tenno, confused, had no instant answer. He realized that he was unable to carry his Zen every minute. He became Nan-in's pupil, and he studied six more years to accomplish his every-minute Zen.

(http://deoxy.org/koan/35)

When Yunyan was sweeping, Douwu said "Too busy"

Yunyan said "You should know when there's one who isn't busy"

Douwu said "If so, there's a second moon"

Yunyan held up the broom and said "Which moon is this?"

(http://zen.thetao.info/perceive/koan.htm)

So what's going on here? Is Douwu merely denying the self-reference ("You should know")?

56. The True Path

Just before Ninakawa passed away the Zen master Ikkyu visited him. "Shall I lead you on?" Ikkyu asked.

Ninakawa replied: "I came here alone and I go alone. What help could you be to me?"

Ikkyu answered: "If you think you really come and go, that is your delusion. Let me show you the path on which there is no coming and no going."

With his words, Ikkyu had revealed the path so clearly that Ninakawa smilled and passed away.

Ikkyu seems to be suggesting that there is a self that is not 'subject to'. And nothing is the only thing that is not subject-to.

But if it really isn't there (if there is no self), Zen's utility reduces to a conceptual understanding: "there is no self". Something that 'one' may have a glimpse of in meditation. But generally one continues living one's life as if there was.

Does realization = not taking possession ("selfing" & valuating)? ...for what reason?

Also, unless I'm getting something wrong (which I probably am), this all seems useless [to "me"]. I'd rather learn about mathematical theorems and axioms (the Great Truths). Or better yet, find a real way to boost the ego and/or happiness ;).


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Reply from 9999999
Mar.16.2008
02:13PM EDT 
Email 9999999
vertical line you cant
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 79743
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Reply from Woodsman
Mar.16.2008
10:00PM EDT 
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vertical line What's now is Zen. Everything. Absolutely, even that.
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 79748
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Reply from Woodsman
Mar.17.2008
12:26AM EDT 
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vertical line So, being in the now, which means being open to each new experience, struggle, sadness and fear, is where the dimensions of self-identity broaden out to others, or shrinks back in unto ourselves until we have no other options than to go through the long dark night, as one, of those repressed experiences that we disowned. Nobody wants to hear the real truth. And we can take some relief in realizing that it has been faced before, so many times, and so many ways that in the time we are living there is a random abundance of way finding. We are all so close to realizing our purpose of being here. The truth is always within reach, for everyone.
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 79749
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Reply from lehish
Mar.17.2008
12:35AM EDT 
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vertical line you are already ;)
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 79750
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Reply from ______
Mar.17.2008
06:35AM EDT 
vertical line http://youtube.com/watch?v=AratTMGrHaQ
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Reply from lehish
Mar.17.2008
07:10AM EDT 
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morning night
glowing lit rain alights
hallelujah  

vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 79753
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Reply from 9999999
Mar.17.2008
03:16PM EDT 
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vertical line afternoon hike
clouds bright
crispy tongue
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 79757
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Reply from Woodsman
Mar.17.2008
03:48PM EDT 
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vertical line Dog walking
Garbage man dumping
Stops to treat us
at the mouth of the drive
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 79761
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Reply from lehish
Mar.17.2008
06:15PM EDT 
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wind drizzles
fingering wet glass
raining
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 79765
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Reply from glorymind
Mar.18.2008
09:16AM EDT 
vertical line I've heard "Hallelujah" before. Good song. I think Alanis Morissette's "Thank You" is more appropriate. Link: http://youtube.com/watch?v=b1WJlxjxAZE

Some lyrics:
The moment I let go of it was
The moment I got more than I could handle
The moment I jumped off of it was
The moment I touched down

I think there is a Zen that is attainable. But I don't know whether it'd be more than an intellectual gimmick: like thinking "the grass is reflecting green light".

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Reply from asheera
Mar.18.2008
10:45AM EDT 
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Dreaming.

Great massage.

Totally relaxed.

Feel a whole universe of Relaxed.

Gray.

vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 79784
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Reply from asheera
Mar.18.2008
10:59AM EDT 
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How does one "carry Zen every minute" as mentioned in the Koan below?

Merely suggesting that there is no "one" to "carry Zen" does not change one's mental habbits.

Every-Minute Zen

Its like you carry it until you understand.

And then it carries you.

So its like you carry Zen to the top of the mountain.

And then it carries you back down again.

And in a way it is like a challenging mental theorem.  To understand it is like banging your head against a wall.  But eventually you get it.  And when you get it you got it.  You understand.  You know what you were missing and now you have it.

In the Zen Monasteries in Japan they don't say that one has attained satori, they say that one has Satori, because the word means understanding.

So did you hear about the Zen Monk who had but a single understanding, having lost his other shoe.

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Reply from lehish
Mar.18.2008
04:34PM EDT 
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 Every-Minute Zen

Its like you carry it until you understand.

And then it carries you.

So its like you carry Zen to the top of the mountain.

And then it carries you back down again."
.........

zen isn't something which does something

zen isn't anything

vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 79794
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Reply from Woodsman
Mar.18.2008
07:29PM EDT 
Email Woodsman
vertical line Give me four more.
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 79805
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Reply from shayne
Mar.18.2008
08:17PM EDT 
Email shayne
vertical line Quote: "

How does one "carry Zen every minute" as mentioned in the Koan below?

Merely suggesting that there is no "one" to "carry Zen" does not change one's mental habbits.

Every-Minute Zen

Its like you carry it until you understand.

And then it carries you.

So its like you carry Zen to the top of the mountain.

And then it carries you back down again.

And in a way it is like a challenging mental theorem.  To understand it is like banging your head against a wall.  But eventually you get it.  And when you get it you got it.  You understand.  You know what you were missing and now you have it.

In the Zen Monasteries in Japan they don't say that one has attained satori, they say that one has Satori, because the word means understanding.

So did you hear about the Zen Monk who had but a single understanding, having lost his other shoe.

"
.........

"
.........

satori searches for satori. enlightenment searches for enlightenment. the mind is where it lies. that which searches for satori is the enlightening mind.

vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 79811
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Reply from lehish
Mar.18.2008
09:00PM EDT 
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Quote: "Give me four more. "
.........

four more ?

vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 79820
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Reply from ______
Mar.18.2008
09:02PM EDT 
vertical line Yes please.
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 79822
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Reply from Woodsman
Mar.18.2008
09:34PM EDT 
Email Woodsman
vertical line Give me four more.
1..... 2...  3....  4........
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 79827
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Reply from shayne
Mar.18.2008
09:41PM EDT 
Email shayne
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Quote: "Give me four more.
1..... 2...  3....  4........
"
.........
"
.........

ok...........dont make no sense.

vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 79829
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Reply from Woodsman
Mar.18.2008
11:29PM EDT 
Email Woodsman
vertical line Quote: "

Quote: "Give me four more.
1..... 2...  3....  4........
"
.........
"
.........

ok...........dont make no

1..............2......3..........4
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 79838
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Reply from shayne
Mar.18.2008
11:30PM EDT 
Email shayne
vertical line Quote: "Quote: "

Quote: "Give me four more.
1..... 2...  3....  4........
"
.........
"
.........

ok...........dont make no

1..............2......3..........4
"
.........

1..............2......3..........4
"
.........

1,,,2,,,3,,,4 who are we rooting for?

johny! johny!

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Reply from Snibbler
Mar.18.2008
11:46PM EDT 
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1. Truth liberates, honestly!
2. Self feeling determine YOUR reality, just as love attracts love. Or generates might be better term?
3. username is right. Have no attachment to results, only to what YOU do (see nr.2)
4. Train you`re self to really listen to others. This also makes a better impressione than hours of propaganda could ever hope to achieve!
5. And most importanly, it is exctremly important to know that.. Wait, 5? Oh, I`m allready finnished, sorry!
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Reply from lehish
Mar.19.2008
04:04AM EDT 
Email lehish
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Quote: "Give me four more.
1..... 2...  3....  4........
"
.........
"
.........

what are counting ?

vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 79853
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Reply from lehish
Mar.19.2008
04:05AM EDT 
Email lehish
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Quote: "Wait, 5? Oh, I`m allready finnished, sorry! "
.........

hehe

vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 79854
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Reply from Woodsman
Mar.19.2008
08:33AM EDT 
Email Woodsman
vertical line STD's
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 79869
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Reply from lehish
Mar.19.2008
10:42AM EDT 
Email lehish
vertical line counting STD's ?
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 79884
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Reply from ______
Mar.19.2008
10:42AM EDT 
vertical line That's seven.
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 79885
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Reply from lehish
Mar.19.2008
10:54AM EDT 
Email lehish
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Quote: "That's seven."
.........

you like counting ?

vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 79887
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Reply from ______
Mar.19.2008
10:55AM EDT 
vertical line Why do you ask?
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 79889
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Reply from lehish
Mar.19.2008
12:47PM EDT 
Email lehish
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Quote: "Why do you ask?"
.........

what "why" ?

vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 79894
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Reply from Woodsman
Mar.19.2008
02:01PM EDT 
Email Woodsman
vertical line Dresses.
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 79895
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Reply from ______
Mar.19.2008
02:14PM EDT 
vertical line Who's posting?
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 79902
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Reply from Woodsman
Mar.19.2008
02:49PM EDT 
Email Woodsman
vertical line Spirits
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 79903
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Reply from Woodsman
Mar.19.2008
03:04PM EDT 
Email Woodsman
vertical line Candy, Muffin, Drink, Love, and Holy (just ignore the 'ands')
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 79907
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Reply from Woodsman
Mar.19.2008
03:55PM EDT 
Email Woodsman
vertical line and and and and and and and and and and and if and and and and and and and and
and and and and and and and and if and and and and and and and and and and and
and and and and and if and and and and and and and and and and and and and and
and and if and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and
id and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 79913
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Reply from 77 zen ror
Mar.19.2008
05:41PM EDT 
Email 77 zen ror
vertical line Quote: "Candy, Muffin, Drink, Love, and Holy (just ignore the 'ands') "
......... Lets eat. Come and get it. Free love and compassion. I'm full. Thank you Wood.
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 79915
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Reply from 77 zen ror
Mar.19.2008
05:42PM EDT 
Email 77 zen ror
vertical line Quote: "Candy, Muffin, Drink, Love, and Holy (just ignore the 'ands') "
......... Lets eat. Come and get it. Free love and compassion. I'm full. Thank you Wood.
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 79916
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