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  The Buddha once said this to the Bhikkhus:
"Bhikkhus, as to the source through which perceptions
and notions tinged by mental proliferation beset a man:
if nothing is found there to delight in, welcome and hold to,
this is... continue...

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→→→→ vertical line TOPIC: JUST SITTING...COMPLETE!!!
vertical line Posted on Mar.20.2008 @ 10:37PM EDT by raeej91

Hello everybody! Like most of you I'm just a little bit interested in zen. I've been exploring zen teaching and practice on my own for about two years now out, but by no means do I consider myself anything close to a real zen practicioner. That said, zen has taught me a lot about myself without even me knowing it. These past two years have mainly been of frustration and struggle. I feel like I've walked thousands of miles but only gotten as far as an inch! Anyways I wanted to share and discuss an insight I've had about zen with anyone who wants to discuss.

While struggling to meditate as usual I started to think about "ordinary mind" while I was sitting. Not being able to concentrate myself I took a break for a while and just sat thinking about and trying to understand what was meant by ordinary mind. In zen they always say "ordinary mind is zen mind" or emphasize that one koan that says "ordinary mind is the way." I began to ask myself what was ordinary mind. I even said it out loud and then realized I was in a public library. When I couldn't come up with any answers and on the verge of frustration again I then asked mockingly "WhAt Is ExTrAoRdInAry MiNd?" (in my thoughts of course!) After asking this half-assed question, I found myself suddenly calm but serious. I began to think about my state of mind during meditation, and in everyday life for that matter, and thought maybe my mind has been extraordinary mind this whole time, for not only the past two years but for most of my life. Ordinary mind is nothing special. When I thought this I became shocked and awed because I've heard this before. Zen people always say zen is nothing special...we are buddha nature already....enlightenment is realized not attained...zazen is just sitting and attending to your posture...I knew these teaching but now I think I've come to an understanding of what they mean.

Zazen is nothing special. It is simply just sitting and paying attention to your posture and breath. But it is easy to get caught up in complication. Often when we follow the breath or attend to our posture we try to manipulate it...we try to amplify its presence in our minds. In doing this we are trying to attain and become attached to some special experience. In my case, this occurs without even any awareness that its occuring. Soon, I become frustrated, angry, and with a big headache. So in zen they emphasize waking up from this special mind into ordinary mind. Usually we think its the other way around, waking up from ordinary mind to special mind. So that's why that one zen dude said to kill the buddha when appears! When you are doing zazen then, and you hear a sound for instance, you should not think "this sound is good" or "this sound is not good enough....I'm should concentrate better." Instead you should just think "that is just the sound exactly." It is ordinary sound...that is all...it is sufficient. Kill the "special" when it appears. When you cultivate this ordinary mind you cultivate your Buddha, enlightened nature. Buddha nature is ordinary nature; Buddha mind is ordinary mind. They are one! Now I understand why they say there's nothing to gain from zazen and why Shunryu Suzuki said, "Zazen practice is the direct expression of our true nature. Strictly speaking, for a human being, there is no other practice than this practice; there is no other way of life than this way of life."

Anyways I hope that made sense. I don't presume myself to be a master of zen now haha...but after two years of exploring zen and just wandeing about, I'm just glad that all those stupid nonsensical zen teachings are beginning to make a little more sense and that I have a toe in the door now.


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Reply from shayne
Mar.20.2008
10:41PM EDT 
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sounds good.

following the breath is where it lies. nothing else. pay attention. attention is the key.

gassho.

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Reply from 9999999
Mar.20.2008
10:49PM EDT 
Email 9999999
vertical line :D      :D
:D      :D    :D
:D      :D
:D :D :D    :D
:D      :D    :D
:D      :D    :D
:D      :D    :D
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Reply from Woodsman
Mar.20.2008
11:36PM EDT 
Email Woodsman
vertical line "woof!" it's just me
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 80009
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Reply from boopoom
Mar.21.2008
12:54AM EDT 
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:  )          

love,boopoom

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Reply from lehish
Mar.21.2008
03:00AM EDT 
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> I have a toe in the door now. <

be heedful the door doesn't slam on the toe  ;D

(joke)

hi :D

 

gassho

vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 80014
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Reply from Snibbler
Mar.21.2008
01:24PM EDT 
vertical line Oh, the gentle art of letting go and non-clinging:)
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 80031
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Reply from kelvintan
Mar.22.2008
02:51AM EDT 
Email kelvintan
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Hi,

Let me Share my Thoughts (Home Sweet Home) using your text.

Hello everybody! Like most of you I'm just (knowing) a little bit interested in zen. I've been exploring (searching not finding) zen teaching and practice on my own for about two years (thirty-two years) now out, but by no means do I consider myself anything close (opening) to a real zen practicioner. That said, zen has taught me a lot about myself without even me knowing it. (Unconsciously aware). These past two years (fifty-two years) have mainly been of frustration and struggle. (Trials and tribulations) I feel like I've walked thousands of miles (500 miles away from home) but only gotten as far as an inch! (A lifetime) Anyways I wanted to share and discuss (joy of giving and sharing) an insight I've had about zen with anyone who wants to discuss.

While struggling to meditate as usual I started to think about "ordinary mind" (consciousness) while I was sitting.(In every postures) Not being able to concentrate myself I took a break (being lazy) for a while and just sat thinking about and trying to understand what was meant by ordinary mind. In zen they always say "ordinary mind is zen mind"(never mind) or emphasize that one koan that says "ordinary mind is the way." I began to ask myself what was ordinary mind. I even said it out loud (it prevents other thoughts from coming in) and then realized I was in a public library. When I couldn't come up with any answers and on the verge of frustration (string too tied) again I then asked mockingly "WhAt Is ExTrAoRdInAry MiNd?"(Who Am I) (in my thoughts of course!) After asking this half-assed question, I found myself suddenly calm but serious. I began to think about my state of mind (Where is it) during meditation, and in everyday life for that matter, and thought maybe my mind has been extraordinary mind (just its nature) this whole time, for not only the past two years (thirty-two  years)but for most of my life. Ordinary mind is nothing special. When I thought this I became shocked (awaken) and awed because I've heard this before. Zen people always say zen is nothing special...we are buddha nature already....enlightenment is realized not attained (there is no enlightenment, no realization and no attainment)...zazen is just sitting and attending to your posture... (Mindfulness of every moment)I knew these teaching but now I think I've come to an understanding of what they mean.

Zazen is nothing special. It is simply just sitting and paying attention to your posture and breath.(Mindfulness and Awareness) But it is easy to get caught up in (Mental Chatters) complication. Often when we follow the breath or attend to our posture we try to manipulate it...we try to amplify (to watch) its presence in our minds. In doing this we are trying to attain and become attached to some special experience (Bliss). In my case.(awareness of the moment), this occurs without even any awareness that its occuring. Soon,(I discover why) I become frustrated, angry, and with a big headache(in the past). So in zen they emphasize waking up from this special mind into ordinary mind. Usually we think (therefore I am) its the other way around, waking up from ordinary mind to special mind.(born out of our thoughts) So that's why that one zen dude said to kill the buddha when appears!(Cut off I don’t know from my Mind) When you are doing zazen then, and you hear a sound for instance, you should not think "this sound is good" (just sound) or "this sound is not good enough....I'm should concentrate better." Instead you should just think "that is just the sound exactly."(Be the Observer).It is ordinary sound...that is all...it is sufficient. Kill the "special" when it appears. When you cultivate this ordinary mind you cultivate your Buddha, enlightened nature. Buddha nature is ordinary nature; Buddha mind is ordinary mind. They are one! Now I understand why they say there's nothing to gain from zazen and why Shunryu Suzuki said, "Zazen practice is the direct expression of our true nature. Strictly speaking, for a human being, there is no other practice than this practice; there is no other way of life than this way of life."(This thumbprint tells, there are more than one way)

Anyways I hope that made sense. (common sense)I don't presume myself to be a master of zen now haha...but after two years(thirty-two years) of exploring zen and just wandeing about, I'm just glad that all those stupid nonsensical zen teachings are beginning to make a little more sense and that I have a toe in the door now. (Walking the Path)

Home Sweet Home (True Nature)

 With Metta

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Reply from -----0
Mar.22.2008
05:32PM EDT 
vertical line That's OK, Raeej91. Now tell me, why should it make sense?
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 80081
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Reply from asheera
Mar.26.2008
11:10AM EDT 
Email asheera
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Zazen is an opportunity to let go.  Its taking time off.  There are no requirements in it.

In life there are constant requirements.  Every situation presents requirements, no matter how large or small.  Whether buttering a slice of bread, or speaking at a board meeting.

So zazen is a vacation.  Vacating yourself from life.  A minute of zazen is more of a vacation than a trip to Disneyland.

Zazen may just be a rest.  It may be a jumping off point for visions.  It may be an opportunity for Buddha to visit you, and awaken you.

vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 80156
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Reply from shayne
Mar.26.2008
03:31PM EDT 
Email shayne
vertical line awaken yourself.
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 80160
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Reply from Lynnoh
Mar.26.2008
03:47PM EDT 
Email Lynnoh
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Quote: "awaken yourself."
.........

hello Shayne

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Reply from Lynnoh
Mar.26.2008
04:04PM EDT 
Email Lynnoh
vertical line Quote: "

Quote: "awaken yourself."
.........

hello Shayne

"
.........

"
.........

hello hello Shayne...where are you?

vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 80163
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Reply from shayne
Mar.26.2008
07:40PM EDT 
Email shayne
vertical line Quote: "Quote: "

Quote: "awaken yourself."
.........

hello Shayne

"
.........

"
.........

hello hello Shayne...where are you?

"
.........

"
.........

 hello Lynnoh..................well im right here talking to you.

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Reply from shayne
Mar.26.2008
07:57PM EDT 
Email shayne
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asleep....awake. who we kidding. no such thing as buddha awakening you. or you awakening yourself. their is just simply no such thing as enlightenment.

theirs understanding which comes with age. some people get it. some dont.

theirs finding the minds eye. some people dont even know what their mind is.

beyond this its a childish idea.

enlightenment looks for enlightenment.

satori looks for satori.

its all about the attention people.

vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 80166
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Reply from jetboobson
Mar.29.2008
02:43AM EDT 
Email jetboobson
vertical line what to practice?
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 80266
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Reply from 9999999
Mar.29.2008
02:53AM EDT 
Email 9999999
vertical line Quote: "

asleep....awake. who we kidding. no such thing as buddha awakening you. or you awakening yourself. their is just simply no such thing as enlightenment.

theirs understanding which comes with age. some people get it. some dont.

theirs finding the minds eye. some people dont even know what their mind is.

beyond this its a childish idea.

enlightenment looks for enlightenment.

satori looks for satori.

its all about the attention people.

"
.........


finally!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

damn greasy slob!
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 80268
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Reply from 9999999
Mar.29.2008
02:58AM EDT 
Email 9999999
vertical line Quote: "

Zazen is an opportunity to let go.  Its taking time off.  There are no requirements in it.

In life there are constant requirements.  Every situation presents requirements, no matter how large or small.  Whether buttering a slice of bread, or speaking at a board meeting.

So zazen is a vacation.  Vacating yourself from life.  A minute of zazen is more of a vacation than a trip to Disneyland.

Zazen may just be a rest.  It may be a jumping off point for visions.  It may be an opportunity for Buddha to visit you, and awaken you.

"
.........

a smelly pile of shit
if i ever saw one

vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 80269
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Reply from Snibbler
Mar.29.2008
04:00AM EDT 
vertical line jthabuddHA, thats no way to give critic! THIS is!:

(Sorry Shayne, U stood so right for a chop as one Wiking said as he beheaded one of his slaves according to Snorre tales:)

Quote:
"

asleep....awake. who we kidding. no such thing as buddha awakening you. or you awakening yourself. their is just simply no such thing as enlightenment.

Eh... Are you sure there is no paradox here Shane?...

theirs understanding which comes with age. some people get it. some dont.

Eh... Are you sure? You  been any of these "some people" other than Shane?...

theirs finding the minds eye. some people dont even know what their mind is.

Eh... Are you sure? You  been any of these "some people" other than Shane?...

beyond this its a childish idea.

Eh... beyond what?

enlightenment looks for enlightenment.

Eh... Are you sure?

satori looks for satori.

?????

its all about the attention people.

Who`s?

"
.........
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 80270
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Reply from shayne
Mar.29.2008
10:00AM EDT 
Email shayne
vertical line Quote: "jthabuddHA, thats no way to give critic! THIS is!:

(Sorry Shayne, U stood so right for a chop as one Wiking said as he beheaded one of his slaves according to Snorre tales:)

Quote:
"

asleep....awake. who we kidding. no such thing as buddha awakening you. or you awakening yourself. their is just simply no such thing as enlightenment.

Eh... Are you sure there is no paradox here Shane?...

theirs understanding which comes with age. some people get it. some dont.

Eh... Are you sure? You  been any of these "some people" other than Shane?...

theirs finding the minds eye. some people dont even know what their mind is.

Eh... Are you sure? You  been any of these "some people" other than Shane?...

beyond this its a childish idea.

Eh... beyond what?

enlightenment looks for enlightenment.

Eh... Are you sure?

satori looks for satori.

?????

its all about the attention people.

Who`s?

"
......... "
.........

"
.........
"
.........

seems like you WANT the fairy tale.

vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 80273
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Reply from shayne
Mar.29.2008
10:01AM EDT 
Email shayne
vertical line Quote: "Quote: "

asleep....awake. who we kidding. no such thing as buddha awakening you. or you awakening yourself. their is just simply no such thing as enlightenment.

theirs understanding which comes with age. some people get it. some dont.

theirs finding the minds eye. some people dont even know what their mind is.

beyond this its a childish idea.

enlightenment looks for enlightenment.

satori looks for satori.

its all about the attention people.

"
.........


finally!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

damn greasy slob!
"
.........

"
.........


finally!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

damn greasy slob!
"
.........

you forgot smelly. haha

vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 80274
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Reply from kelvintan
Mar.29.2008
12:57PM EDT 
Email kelvintan
vertical line Quote: "Quote: "

Zazen is an opportunity to let go.  Its taking time off.  There are no requirements in it.

In life there are constant requirements.  Every situation presents requirements, no matter how large or small.  Whether buttering a slice of bread, or speaking at a board meeting.

So zazen is a vacation.  Vacating yourself from life.  A minute of zazen is more of a vacation than a trip to Disneyland.

Zazen may just be a rest.  It may be a jumping off point for visions.  It may be an opportunity for Buddha to visit you, and awaken you.

"
.........

a smelly pile of shit
if i ever saw one
"
.........

"
.........

a smelly pile of shit
if i ever saw one
"
.........

Just To Have A Better Understanding Do Develop Harmony And Peace even we have differing views.

Sharing With Metta

vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 80278
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Reply from 9999999
Mar.29.2008
01:26PM EDT 
Email 9999999
vertical line hOHAHRAOHREHAEOHAOEHRHAEOHRAEERHO
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 80279
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Reply from 9999999
Mar.29.2008
01:26PM EDT 
Email 9999999
vertical line hOHAHRAOHREHAEOHAOEHRHAEOHRAEERHO
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 80280
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Reply from 9999999
Mar.29.2008
01:35PM EDT 
Email 9999999
vertical line Quote: "

Zazen is an opportunity to let go.  Its taking time off.  There are no requirements in it.

In life there are constant requirements.  Every situation presents requirements, no matter how large or small.  Whether buttering a slice of bread, or speaking at a board meeting.

So zazen is a vacation.  Vacating yourself from life.  A minute of zazen is more of a vacation than a trip to Disneyland.

Zazen may just be a rest.  It may be a jumping off point for visions.  It may be an opportunity for Buddha to visit you, and awaken you.

"
.........

zazen is this
zazen is that
what is zazen if it cant be called this or that?
without thinking, what is zazen?
quick!

vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 80282
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Reply from 9999999
Mar.29.2008
01:39PM EDT 
Email 9999999
vertical line Quote: "

asleep....awake. who we kidding. no such thing as buddha awakening you. or you awakening yourself. their is just simply no such thing as enlightenment.

:)


theirs understanding which comes with age. some people get it. some dont.

:S

theirs finding the minds eye. some people dont even know what their mind is.

:S

beyond this its a childish idea.

:)

enlightenment looks for enlightenment.

:)

satori looks for satori.

:)

its all about the attention people.

:S


then,

:S :S :S :S :S :S

"
.........
"To expound and propogate concepts is simple,
to drop all concepts is difficult and rare"

~nisargadatta


vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 80283
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Reply from Woodsman
Mar.29.2008
01:47PM EDT 
Email Woodsman
vertical line Ego is the word.
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 80284
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Reply from shayne
Mar.30.2008
02:49AM EDT 
Email shayne
vertical line

Quote: "Ego is the word. "
.........

forget ego. ego is JUST a word.

concentrate now woodsy.

THATS where it lays.

vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 80324
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Reply from shayne
Mar.30.2008
03:04AM EDT 
Email shayne
vertical line Quote: "Quote: "

asleep....awake. who we kidding. no such thing as buddha awakening you. or you awakening yourself. their is just simply no such thing as enlightenment.

:)


theirs understanding which comes with age. some people get it. some dont.

:S

theirs finding the minds eye. some people dont even know what their mind is.

:S

beyond this its a childish idea.

:)

enlightenment looks for enlightenment.

:)

satori looks for satori.

:)

its all about the attention people.

:S


then,

:S :S :S :S :S :S

"
.........
"To expound and propogate concepts is simple,
to drop all concepts is difficult and rare"

~nisargadatta


"
.........

"
.........
"To expound and propogate concepts is simple,
to drop all concepts is difficult and rare"

~nisargadatta


"
.........

whats ;S stand for? confusion? half ass smile?

vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 80325
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Reply from shayne
Mar.30.2008
03:13AM EDT 
Email shayne
vertical line Quote: "Quote: "Quote: "

asleep....awake. who we kidding. no such thing as buddha awakening you. or you awakening yourself. their is just simply no such thing as enlightenment.

:)


theirs understanding which comes with age. some people get it. some dont.

:S

theirs finding the minds eye. some people dont even know what their mind is.

:S

beyond this its a childish idea.

:)

enlightenment looks for enlightenment.

:)

satori looks for satori.

:)

its all about the attention people.

:S


then,

:S :S :S :S :S :S

"
.........
"To expound and propogate concepts is simple,
to drop all concepts is difficult and rare"

~nisargadatta


"
.........

"
.........
"To expound and propogate concepts is simple,
to drop all concepts is difficult and rare"

~nisargadatta


"
.........

whats ;S stand for? confusion? half ass smile?

"
.........

"
.........

yes some people get it sooner jthbuddha. age is not a factor.

minds eye looks for minds eye.

its all about the FOCUS and attention jthbuddha.

vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 80327
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Reply from Woodsman
Mar.30.2008
08:40AM EDT 
Email Woodsman
vertical line Quote: "

Quote: "Ego is the word. "
.........

forget ego. ego is JUST a word.

concentrate now woodsy.

THATS where it lays.

"
.........

lies, all lies
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 80345
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Reply from ______
Apr.03.2008
07:26PM EDT 
vertical line Quote: "

So zazen is a vacation.  Vacating yourself from life.  A minute of zazen is more of a vacation than a trip to Disneyland.

Zazen may just be a rest.  It may be a jumping off point for visions.  It may be an opportunity for Buddha to visit you, and awaken you.

"
.........
Thinking that meditation is separate from life [vacating yourself from life] is intrinsically the desire to escape from life and is life negating.  Only your discriminating thoughts are vacating yourself from life. 

vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 80549
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Reply from shayne
Apr.03.2008
09:40PM EDT 
Email shayne
vertical line Quote: "Quote: "

So zazen is a vacation.  Vacating yourself from life.  A minute of zazen is more of a vacation than a trip to Disneyland.

Zazen may just be a rest.  It may be a jumping off point for visions.  It may be an opportunity for Buddha to visit you, and awaken you.

"
.........
Thinking that meditation is separate from life [vacating yourself from life] is intrinsically the desire to escape from life and is life negating.  Only your discriminating thoughts are vacating yourself from life. 
"
.........

"
.........
Thinking that meditation is separate from life [vacating yourself from life] is intrinsically the desire to escape from life and is life negating.  Only your discriminating thoughts are vacating yourself from life. 
"
.........

too true.

zazan brings you CLOSER to life. not a vaction.

vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 80553
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