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  The Zen Master Hoshin lived in China many years. Then he returned to the northeastern part of Japan, where he taught his disciples. When he was getting very old, he told them a story he had heard in China. This is the story: One year on... continue...

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→→→→ vertical line TOPIC: BEGGINER'S QUESTION
vertical line Posted on Mar.26.2008 @ 11:31PM EDT by Ichorid
I have only recently become interested in zen buddhism and have been reading a series of essays written by Takuan Soho, and proposes an idea that conflicts with my own.  He stated to the best of my interpretation that one's thoughts and actions ought basically to be the same, calling this unmoving wisdom.  He stated that the mind ought never to focus on one thing or it would miss the rest, his example that if you concentrate on one red leaf in a tree it would be as if the rest of the tree was never even there.  I have a problem accepting that one should never focus on something, for I love to think on problems or contemplate meanings.  I am aware that the mind can lead itself astray but I think that as long as I am not ignorant of this i should be okay.  What i'm asking is is Takuan really condemning contemplation in all it's forms or am I missing something?

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Reply from kelvintan
Mar.26.2008
11:54PM EDT 
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In Concentration Have One-pointedness. Right Intention. Direct mastery over the mind.

With Metta

vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 80170
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Reply from nevermore
Mar.27.2008
01:42AM EDT 
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vertical line either you are interpreting that incorrectly or perhaps he is playing with one's concept-base.  who knows. the fact is that there is no "tree" and no "leaf". i think the author is more trying to get one to see that simply flowing with what needs to be concentrated on at ANY particular moment and not "clinging" to the former problem once the situation has turned. this is all tentative, however, because all situations are one. when one sees a leaf, one has all ready seen the tree. in fact, when one attempts to look at the self, they see the tree and the leaf. contemplating meanings will lead one astray and being ignorant of that or not is not the point. fact is, if you think that accumulating superficial knowledge about so-called meanings and what-not, you are ignorant of something far greater than "being lead astray." that being said, forget books and teachers and all that crap. just sit down on a pillow and breath for 20 min, 3 times a day(or whatever you can) and do that everyday for the rest of your life. there is nothing else.  zen is not useful for anything.
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 80171
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Reply from stephen
Mar.27.2008
09:01AM EDT 
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vertical line Takuan is condemning contemplation which excludes the whole. - MU
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 80172
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Reply from nevermore
Mar.27.2008
10:38AM EDT 
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vertical line Quote: "Takuan is condemning contemplation which excludes the whole. - MU"
.........

good answer. now this one feels ashamed for the long-winded response.....lol
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 80174
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Reply from asheera
Mar.27.2008
11:01AM EDT 
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There is much to contemplate, and you should enjoy that.

Zen buddhism is really about meditation, and the valuable affect that has on your life.

Meditation helps you to relieve the tensions and strains of life, while you contemplate everything.

Zazen, aka: Zen Meditation, has a calming effect that helps to keep your mind clear.  Then you can contemplate lots of things much more enjoyably.

I like to read Shunryo Suzuki, and of course the Teachings of The Buddha are good too.  I also recommend Herrigel's The Method of Zen, and Zen in the Art of Archery.  Oh, and don't forget to read Jonathan Livingston Seagull.

Zen is a great journey.  Good Luck.

vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 80177
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Reply from 77 zen ror
Mar.27.2008
07:28PM EDT 
Email 77 zen ror
vertical line Find a good book. Thats show you strongly the 8 fold path, 4 noble truth. A book on pure Zen. Sit, breathing, walking, eating,. Like soto zen, jojo bock, alan watts,Do your home work frist. Then head out to your book store. Enjoy your path on fineing your ture self. 77 Zen ror.
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Reply from Ichorid
Mar.27.2008
10:28PM EDT 
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vertical line Thank you all for your replies, you have answered my question.  Additionally you have helped me to realize that I probably haven't started my studies in the right place.  This is more appealing to me now than ever too.
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 80183
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Reply from Snibbler
Mar.28.2008
12:52AM EDT 
vertical line Pssst! Here, knock youre self out, i`ts free!:)
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 80184
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Reply from Snibbler
Mar.28.2008
12:54AM EDT 
vertical line (Here=link to rather good meditation imo, pdf format)
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 80185
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Reply from 77 zen ror
Mar.28.2008
06:21PM EDT 
Email 77 zen ror
vertical line The love for oneother. When we reach out for one other. Enjoy. Take it in like roots in the ground. Grow to be that what is yours in life.
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 80254
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Reply from Woodsman
Mar.28.2008
06:39PM EDT 
vertical line Quote: "Pssst! Here, knock youre self out, i`ts free!:)
"
.........

Get behind me snibbler!

I mean, stay right there! If you are sitting.
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Reply from kelvintan
Mar.28.2008
11:39PM EDT 
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Quote: "Thank you all for your replies, you have answered my question.  Additionally you have helped me to realize that I probably haven't started my studies in the right place.  This is more appealing to me now than ever too.
"
.........

"I" Created. How One Rid Ignorance Depends

 on  Right Understanding.

With Metta

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Reply from 9999999
Mar.29.2008
12:38AM EDT 
Email 9999999
vertical line orchid
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 80263
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Reply from kelvintan
Mar.29.2008
02:18AM EDT 
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Quote: "orchid "
.........

Hi

I love ORCHID

rich colour

or

I

do

I

rid

I

Hid

I

Chi

I

With Metta

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Reply from jetboobson
Mar.29.2008
02:38AM EDT 
Email jetboobson
vertical line Well


it

is

right

here


wait....

no


it

could

be

over

there?

wait....

it's

around

the

block

but

its

HERE!
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Reply from kelvintan
Mar.29.2008
12:30PM EDT 
Email kelvintan
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Quote: "Well


it

is

right

here


wait....

no


it

could

be

over

there?

wait....

it's

around

the

block

but

its

HERE!
"
.........

Just Enjoy The Bliss Observing One's Bhavana, Solitude ONature

With Metta

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Reply from -----0
Mar.30.2008
08:24AM EDT 
vertical line Ichorid, don't try to understand Zen Masters literally and conceptually. They are just hinting towards what can't be explained. It is OK to contemplate.
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 80339
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Reply from ______
Apr.03.2008
07:44PM EDT 
vertical line It doesn't matter what Takuan is condemning, if he is condemning anything at all.  That's Takuan business.

Contemplation is about thoughts - so contemplate what you like.  Meditation, hasn't got anything to do with anything.  There's no practical application for self-realisation [the realisation that there is no self to realise]; it's useless for analysis, therapy, self-improvement or diversion because it erases the idea of self. It's no good for developing the mind because it dissolves the mind. It's nothing. Meditation? What's it good for?  Nothing!
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 80550
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Reply from shayne
Apr.03.2008
09:41PM EDT 
Email shayne
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Quote: "It doesn't matter what Takuan is condemning, if he is condemning anything at all.  That's Takuan business.

Contemplation is about thoughts - so contemplate what you like.  Meditation, hasn't got anything to do with anything.  There's no practical application for self-realisation [the realisation that there is no self to realise]; it's useless for analysis, therapy, self-improvement or diversion because it erases the idea of self. It's no good for developing the mind because it dissolves the mind. It's nothing. Meditation? What's it good for?  Nothing!
"
.........

disolves the mind?

whats mind to you?

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Reply from ______
Apr.04.2008
09:41AM EDT 
vertical line Nothing.
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 80560
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Reply from ______
Apr.07.2008
09:29AM EDT 
vertical line Said to me, "I used to think if I ever killed myself, I'd make it awesome, with balloons and cake and a hired clown, but really it'd be awesome enough just stopping."
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 80626
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Reply from Mslapik
Jun.15.2008
12:55AM EDT 
Email Mslapik
vertical line Perspective. Don't get lost in the world and forget unknowing.
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 83404
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Reply from ______
Jun.15.2008
08:57AM EDT 
vertical line Not possible to "forget unknowing".
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 83412
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Reply from ______
Jun.15.2008
09:00AM EDT 
vertical line Farewell to the gold that never I found,
Goodbye to the nuggets that somewhere abound;
For it's only when dreaming that I see you gleaming
Down in the dark deep underground.
~P M
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 83413
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