 |
| →→→→ |
 |
TOPIC: BEGGINER'S QUESTION |
|
|
|
Posted on Mar.26.2008 @ 11:31PM EDT by Ichorid
I have only recently become interested in zen buddhism and have been reading a series of essays written by Takuan Soho, and proposes an idea that conflicts with my own. He stated to the best of my interpretation that one's thoughts and actions ought basically to be the same, calling this unmoving wisdom. He stated that the mind ought never to focus on one thing or it would miss the rest, his example that if you concentrate on one red leaf in a tree it would be as if the rest of the tree was never even there. I have a problem accepting that one should never focus on something, for I love to think on problems or contemplate meanings. I am aware that the mind can lead itself astray but I think that as long as I am not ignorant of this i should be okay. What i'm asking is is Takuan really condemning contemplation in all it's forms or am I missing something?
|
|
↓Go to Latest Reply
|
→Reply to this Topic
→Email Ichorid
|
|
| |
|
|
Reply from kelvintan
Mar.26.2008
11:54PM EDT
→Email kelvintan
|
|
In Concentration Have One-pointedness. Right Intention. Direct mastery over the mind.
With Metta |
|
|
|
→Quote & Reply
→Post Reply
80170
|
|
| |
|
|
Reply from nevermore
Mar.27.2008
01:42AM EDT
→Email nevermore
|
|
either you are interpreting that incorrectly or perhaps he is playing with one's concept-base. who knows. the fact is that there is no "tree" and no "leaf". i think the author is more trying to get one to see that simply flowing with what needs to be concentrated on at ANY particular moment and not "clinging" to the former problem once the situation has turned. this is all tentative, however, because all situations are one. when one sees a leaf, one has all ready seen the tree. in fact, when one attempts to look at the self, they see the tree and the leaf. contemplating meanings will lead one astray and being ignorant of that or not is not the point. fact is, if you think that accumulating superficial knowledge about so-called meanings and what-not, you are ignorant of something far greater than "being lead astray." that being said, forget books and teachers and all that crap. just sit down on a pillow and breath for 20 min, 3 times a day(or whatever you can) and do that everyday for the rest of your life. there is nothing else. zen is not useful for anything.
|
|
|
|
→Quote & Reply
→Post Reply
80171
|
|
| |
|
|
Reply from stephen
Mar.27.2008
09:01AM EDT
→Email stephen
|
|
Takuan is condemning contemplation which excludes the whole. - MU |
|
|
|
→Quote & Reply
→Post Reply
80172
|
|
| |
|
|
Reply from nevermore
Mar.27.2008
10:38AM EDT
→Email nevermore
|
|
Quote: "Takuan is condemning contemplation which excludes the whole. - MU"
.........
good answer. now this one feels ashamed for the long-winded response.....lol
|
|
|
|
→Quote & Reply
→Post Reply
80174
|
|
| |
|
|
Reply from asheera
Mar.27.2008
11:01AM EDT
→Email asheera
|
|
There is much to contemplate, and you should enjoy that.
Zen buddhism is really about meditation, and the valuable affect that has on your life.
Meditation helps you to relieve the tensions and strains of life, while you contemplate everything.
Zazen, aka: Zen Meditation, has a calming effect that helps to keep your mind clear. Then you can contemplate lots of things much more enjoyably.
I like to read Shunryo Suzuki, and of course the Teachings of The Buddha are good too. I also recommend Herrigel's The Method of Zen, and Zen in the Art of Archery. Oh, and don't forget to read Jonathan Livingston Seagull.
Zen is a great journey. Good Luck. |
|
|
|
→Quote & Reply
→Post Reply
80177
|
|
| |
|
|
Reply from 77 zen ror
Mar.27.2008
07:28PM EDT
→Email 77 zen ror
|
|
Find a good book. Thats show you strongly the 8 fold path, 4 noble truth. A book on pure Zen. Sit, breathing, walking, eating,. Like soto zen, jojo bock, alan watts,Do your home work frist. Then head out to your book store. Enjoy your path on fineing your ture self. 77 Zen ror. |
|
|
|
→Quote & Reply
→Post Reply
80181
|
|
| |
|
|
Reply from Ichorid
Mar.27.2008
10:28PM EDT
→Email Ichorid
|
|
Thank you all for your replies, you have answered my question. Additionally you have helped me to realize that I probably haven't started my studies in the right place. This is more appealing to me now than ever too.
|
|
|
|
→Quote & Reply
→Post Reply
80183
|
|
| |
|
|
Reply from Snibbler
Mar.28.2008
12:52AM EDT
|
|
Pssst! Here, knock youre self out, i`ts free!:)
|
|
|
|
→Quote & Reply
→Post Reply
80184
|
|
| |
|
|
Reply from Snibbler
Mar.28.2008
12:54AM EDT
|
|
(Here=link to rather good meditation imo, pdf format) |
|
|
|
→Quote & Reply
→Post Reply
80185
|
|
| |
|
|
Reply from 77 zen ror
Mar.28.2008
06:21PM EDT
→Email 77 zen ror
|
|
The love for oneother. When we reach out for one other. Enjoy. Take it in like roots in the ground. Grow to be that what is yours in life. |
|
|
|
→Quote & Reply
→Post Reply
80254
|
|
| |
|
|
Reply from Woodsman
Mar.28.2008
06:39PM EDT
|
|
Quote: "Pssst! Here, knock youre self out, i`ts free!:)
"
.........
Get behind me snibbler!
I mean, stay right there! If you are sitting.
|
|
|
|
→Quote & Reply
→Post Reply
80259
|
|
| |
|
|
Reply from kelvintan
Mar.28.2008
11:39PM EDT
→Email kelvintan
|
|
Quote: "Thank you all for your replies, you have answered my question. Additionally you have helped me to realize that I probably haven't started my studies in the right place. This is more appealing to me now than ever too.
"
.........
"I" Created. How One Rid Ignorance Depends
on Right Understanding.
With Metta |
|
|
|
→Quote & Reply
→Post Reply
80262
|
|
| |
|
|
Reply from 9999999
Mar.29.2008
12:38AM EDT
→Email 9999999
|
|
orchid |
|
|
|
→Quote & Reply
→Post Reply
80263
|
|
| |
|
|
Reply from kelvintan
Mar.29.2008
02:18AM EDT
→Email kelvintan
|
|
Quote: "orchid "
.........
Hi
I love ORCHID
rich colour
or
I
do
I
rid
I
Hid
I
Chi
I
With Metta
|
|
|
|
→Quote & Reply
→Post Reply
80264
|
|
| |
|
|
Reply from jetboobson
Mar.29.2008
02:38AM EDT
→Email jetboobson
|
|
Well
it
is
right
here
wait....
no
it
could
be
over
there?
wait....
it's
around
the
block
but
its
HERE!
|
|
|
|
→Quote & Reply
→Post Reply
80265
|
|
| |
|
|
Reply from kelvintan
Mar.29.2008
12:30PM EDT
→Email kelvintan
|
|
Quote: "Well
it
is
right
here
wait....
no
it
could
be
over
there?
wait....
it's
around
the
block
but
its
HERE!
"
.........
Just Enjoy The Bliss Observing One's Bhavana, Solitude Of Nature
With Metta |
|
|
|
→Quote & Reply
→Post Reply
80277
|
|
| |
|
|
Reply from -----0
Mar.30.2008
08:24AM EDT
|
|
Ichorid, don't try to understand Zen Masters literally and conceptually. They are just hinting towards what can't be explained. It is OK to contemplate. |
|
|
|
→Quote & Reply
→Post Reply
80339
|
|
| |
|
|
Reply from ______
Apr.03.2008
07:44PM EDT
|
|
It doesn't matter what Takuan is condemning, if he is condemning anything at all. That's Takuan business.
Contemplation is about thoughts - so contemplate what you like. Meditation, hasn't got anything to do with anything. There's no practical application for self-realisation [the realisation that there is no self to realise]; it's useless for analysis, therapy, self-improvement or diversion because it erases the idea of self. It's no good for developing the mind because it dissolves the mind. It's nothing. Meditation? What's it good for? Nothing!
|
|
|
|
→Quote & Reply
→Post Reply
80550
|
|
| |
|
|
Reply from shayne
Apr.03.2008
09:41PM EDT
→Email shayne
|
|
Quote: "It doesn't matter what Takuan is condemning, if he is condemning anything at all. That's Takuan business.
Contemplation is about thoughts - so contemplate what you like. Meditation, hasn't got anything to do with anything. There's no practical application for self-realisation [the realisation that there is no self to realise]; it's useless for analysis, therapy, self-improvement or diversion because it erases the idea of self. It's no good for developing the mind because it dissolves the mind. It's nothing. Meditation? What's it good for? Nothing!
"
.........
disolves the mind?
whats mind to you? |
|
|
|
→Quote & Reply
→Post Reply
80554
|
|
| |
|
|
Reply from ______
Apr.04.2008
09:41AM EDT
|
|
Nothing. |
|
|
|
→Quote & Reply
→Post Reply
80560
|
|
| |
|
|
Reply from ______
Apr.07.2008
09:29AM EDT
|
|
Said to me, "I used to think if I ever killed myself, I'd make it awesome, with balloons and cake and a hired clown, but really it'd be awesome enough just stopping." |
|
|
|
→Quote & Reply
→Post Reply
80626
|
|
| |
|
|
Reply from Mslapik
Jun.15.2008
12:55AM EDT
→Email Mslapik
|
|
Perspective. Don't get lost in the world and forget unknowing.
|
|
|
|
→Quote & Reply
→Post Reply
83404
|
|
| |
|
|
Reply from ______
Jun.15.2008
08:57AM EDT
|
|
Not possible to "forget unknowing". |
|
|
|
→Quote & Reply
→Post Reply
83412
|
|
| |
|
|
Reply from ______
Jun.15.2008
09:00AM EDT
|
|
Farewell to the gold that never I found,
Goodbye to the nuggets that somewhere abound;
For it's only when dreaming that I see you gleaming
Down in the dark deep underground.
~P M
|
|
|
|
→Quote & Reply
→Post Reply
83413
|
|
| |
| ←Back To Topic List |
|
↑Go to Top of Page |
BUDDHA, MAE CHAN, THAILAND