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  Things have never declared themselves empty, nor have they declared
themselves form; and they have not declared themselves right, wrong,
defiled or pure. Nor is there a mind that binds and fetters people.
It is just because... continue...

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→→→→ vertical line TOPIC: ENLIGHTENMENT
vertical line Posted on Jun.02.2008 @ 09:46AM EDT by shayne
relieved of the burdeon of the attention is enlightened.
Go to Latest Reply   Reply to this Topic   Email shayne
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Reply from ______
Jun.02.2008
09:50AM EDT 
vertical line ha ha ha ha ha ha ha 
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Reply from ______
Jun.02.2008
10:12AM EDT 
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ha

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ha

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a
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Reply from ______
Jun.02.2008
10:34AM EDT 
vertical line Have to go.  [Notes from Nowhere] Mum-in-law found collapsed by a neighbour yesterday. Phone call from sister-in-law. distraught and unhappy with paid carer who just pushed a note through the door. Mum-in-law taken to hospital by ambulance.  Mum-in-law's house in a mess - poop all over the place.  Wife just walked in the house finishing work early. Have to go now with wife, to clean up the mess and make arrangements for hospital visit.    
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Reply from Lynnoh
Jun.02.2008
10:41AM EDT 
Email Lynnoh
vertical line take care
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Reply from 9999999
Jun.02.2008
02:23PM EDT 
Email 9999999
vertical line om nom nom 
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Reply from roseriya
Jun.03.2008
07:19AM EDT 
vertical line Hi everyone
According to me enlightenment means, when we realized it that who we are.
In other words, when we wake up completely.
Our conscious level reaches to that higher lever, where further no level remains.
I found  an interesting spiritual video on what is enlightenment and all about it.


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Reply from shayne
Jun.03.2008
10:53AM EDT 
Email shayne
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does this mean its an object? as an object enlightenment isnt outside oneself or inside oneself. if it means turning the attention inward and forcing the mind/body connection into a higher state of being then just be this being.

in other words. you create this higher state of mind. but it is just that.

when forgotten what then?

the ultimate state is non state of mind.

clarity and crispness to see the wisdom of the eteranal now unfold before your very eyes.

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Reply from 9999999
Jun.03.2008
03:57PM EDT 
Email 9999999
vertical line ANY state is a thought induced state.
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Reply from 9999999
Jun.03.2008
03:58PM EDT 
Email 9999999
vertical line who wants to elevate their consciousness?  the truth is much different and much simpler--you see it or you dont
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Reply from ______
Jun.04.2008
08:21AM EDT 
vertical line Taking care  
off to the hospital.
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Reply from Snibbler
Jun.04.2008
01:00PM EDT 
vertical line Good luck Rustic.
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Reply from Lionel
Jun.05.2008
07:44PM EDT 
Email Lionel
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...layer after layer we keep on peeling dayin & dayout... & when seeing is just seeing hearing is just hearing & so forth... no one, no person, no thing, no nothing, ...it is just what is what &  just as is & where is... any word is just a measurable tool in dualistic world... suddenly the nature of seeing hearing & so forth perhaps one day would evaporate too... leaving nothing but bright clarity sky...

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Reply from glorymind
Jun.06.2008
06:15AM EDT 
vertical line Quote: "

...layer after layer we keep on peeling dayin & dayout... & when seeing is just seeing hearing is just hearing & so forth... no one, no person, no thing, no nothing, ...it is just what is what &  just as is & where is... any word is just a measurable tool in dualistic world... suddenly the nature of seeing hearing & so forth perhaps one day would evaporate too... leaving nothing but bright clarity sky...

"
.........

"
.........

That sounds sexy.

But the feelings of goodness - these are all in and for the ego. This is where meaning and joy lies.

Without someone to experience the joy, there would be no gratitude.

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Reply from ______
Jun.06.2008
08:16AM EDT 
vertical line There is joy. There is no one experiencing the joy. There is no one being joyful.
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Reply from Lionel
Jun.07.2008
02:46AM EDT 
Email Lionel
vertical line Quote: "Quote: "

...layer after layer we keep on peeling dayin & dayout... & when seeing is just seeing hearing is just hearing & so forth... no one, no person, no thing, no nothing, ...it is just what is what &  just as is & where is... any word is just a measurable tool in dualistic world... suddenly the nature of seeing hearing & so forth perhaps one day would evaporate too... leaving nothing but bright clarity sky...

"
.........

"
.........

That sounds sexy.

But the feelings of goodness - these are all in and for the ego. This is where meaning and joy lies.

Without someone to experience the joy, there would be no gratitude.

"
.........

"
.........

Once the dusty Heart Sultra indicated like so: " Form is emptiness. Emptiness is form. Form is no different from emptiness nor emptiness is different from form." Thanks~

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Reply from shayne
Jun.07.2008
04:23AM EDT 
Email shayne
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Quote: "There is joy. There is no one experiencing the joy. There is no one being joyful. "
.........

deluded.

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Reply from glorymind
Jun.07.2008
06:56AM EDT 
vertical line Quote: "

Once the dusty Heart Sultra indicated like so: " Form is emptiness. Emptiness is form. Form is no different from emptiness nor emptiness is different from form." Thanks~

"
.........

"
.........

"Form" and "emptiness" have different connotations.

Was trying to get an idea of what the quote meant so I read this: http://www.thebigview.com/buddhism/emptiness.html

Apparently "emptiness" means empty of inherent existence.

But because people experience hallucinations, this suggests that existence is solely in the mind. (The article's justification was that there is no inherent existence because of interdependence which, along with hallucinations, cannot be reconciled with solipsism).

Other than that, it's more useful (and maybe impossible not) to think the representation (whether there is an 'physical object'/essence behind it) is the thing itself.

To quote the article, "objects of perception have therefore no inherent existence". But by being "objects of perception" they inherently exist and this gives meaning to the term.

The article claims that experiencing the true essence (behind the object) is impossible. This does nothing to vindicate the personal ideal of "emptiness" - later quoting the Dalai Lama, "you will perceive phenomena and events as sort of illusory". The fancy name used for the proposed mode of perception - "perfection of wisdom" (which must be "perfected through cultivation") - only perpetuates the false idea that it is somehow beneficial. And that it is "aquired experientially, by means of intuitive insight" makes the proposition dubious - the aquisition likely a delusion rather than a perfection.

In my humble opinion, it is not the way to 'bliss' (or to better oneself in any real way), and these elaborations were, for me, merely spiritual snake oil.

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Reply from ______
Jun.07.2008
07:38AM EDT 
vertical line What's "bliss"?
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Reply from Snibbler
Jun.07.2008
07:45AM EDT 
vertical line Thus spoke the blessed one. Would it, dear bikkhu be appropriate if someone said.
Having smeared snake oil all over ones body, I will take the rest of this snake oil
and build a raft. After running up and down the length of this shore, I will take this
snake oil and grease it all over my body and go looking for a gangbang. In fact, I
will eat this snake oil too! And any leftovers, I will share with everyone I meet!
Upon hearing these words, instantaneously 10000 in the crowd was super
enlightened and they all rejoiced and lived happily ever after!
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Reply from ______
Jun.07.2008
07:53AM EDT 
vertical line Watch out for the polar bears.  They'll smell that miles off. 
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Reply from shayne
Jun.07.2008
08:48AM EDT 
Email shayne
vertical line bull malarky. thats what i say to the first post.
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Reply from ______
Jun.07.2008
08:54AM EDT 
vertical line It's because of what you just read about 'the attention'.
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Reply from shayne
Jun.07.2008
08:56AM EDT 
Email shayne
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nah...fell into the trap. gnawed myself free. now im free again.

no mind is crap.

it dont make sense to no one.

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Reply from Woodsman
Jun.07.2008
03:11PM EDT 
vertical line senses are not made like chocolate.

wait a minute... I'll be back
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Reply from Woodsman
Jun.07.2008
07:07PM EDT 
vertical line I ended up goin' to the hardware store instead. Needed a bit.
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Reply from shamrock
Jun.10.2008
08:30AM EDT 
Email shamrock
vertical line how about just sitting q.u.i.e.t.l.y. .anyone who says they are enlightened are not. let it all fall into place when the mind does still it self. "be still and know who i am" is quoted in some holy book. everything else is pure entertainment
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Reply from glorymind
Jun.10.2008
09:48AM EDT 
vertical line Quote: "how about just sitting q.u.i.e.t.l.y. .anyone who says they are enlightened are not. let it all fall into place when the mind does still it self. "be still and know who i am" is quoted in some holy book. everything else is pure entertainment"
.........

So what have you found?
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Reply from Woodsman
Jun.10.2008
09:54AM EDT 
vertical line Shaynee is enlightened.
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Reply from shayne
Jun.10.2008
11:28AM EDT 
Email shayne
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i dont know if im enlightened woodsy.

all i know is that which seeks it is it.

all i really care about it the end.

if enlightenment is a thing................then as a object of the attention when the attention is turned away from it does this mean your no longer enlightened?

enlightenment seeks enlightenment.

but this doesnt imply seeking isnt reguired at one point. nor does it mean dont ask questions.

for example i told someone today.

awareness is the soul.

and attention is awareness to a point.

the awareness is empty like the mind. is emptiness.

i said to them.......if you turn your mind inward ( the attention ) and examine what it is made of you will find it is empty. nothiningness. even awareness is empty.

but this nothingness cant be destroyed.

i also said awareness is differant then attention.

we hear sounds regardless if we pay attention to them or not.

that this awareness is wholeness. we hear, taste, feel and see all at once.

without trying.

attention though is used to focus the awareness.

the self to a point.

so we are already whole at the get go.

kinda what i been looking for and to me is no mind.

thats why i said no attention is enlightenment.

and i fall into the trap of being very unfocused at times.

not a good thing.

so you see no mind..........i already have it. ( awareness )

mind........got one and damn proud of it. im free with it.

i dont know things about emptiness is form and form is emptiness.

these things make no sense to me.

id rather be able to converse with the average man on the average level.

ALOT of people can see what i can see.

the end.

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Reply from 9999999
Jun.10.2008
01:58PM EDT 
Email 9999999
vertical line no 'mind' apart from the thought "i have a mind" and "there is no mind" --- both come and go

sucks to be chocolate

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Reply from shayne
Jun.10.2008
07:24PM EDT 
Email shayne
vertical line you got a mind.
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Reply from 9999999
Jun.10.2008
07:48PM EDT 
Email 9999999
vertical line Quote: "you got a mind."
.........

where and what is the mind if there is no thinking about it?
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Reply from 9999999
Jun.10.2008
07:53PM EDT 
Email 9999999
vertical line Quote: "Quote: "you got a mind."
.........

where and what is the mind if there is no thinking about it?
"
.........
nevermind
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Reply from 9999999
Jun.10.2008
07:53PM EDT 
Email 9999999
vertical line Quote: "Quote: "Quote: "you got a mind."
.........

where and what is the mind if there is no thinking about it?
"
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nevermind
"
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never do!
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Reply from shamrock
Jun.11.2008
01:24AM EDT 
Email shamrock
vertical line i can see a lot of 'mind' being used. but not a bad thing to use if eqanimous and quiescent. noticed a baby of about 6 weeks. can teach us alot about proper breathing and awareness. total attention to whatever is in focus.
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Reply from shayne
Jun.11.2008
12:34PM EDT 
Email shayne
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babies are a very good example.

maybe some here could learn from them.

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Reply from shayne
Jun.11.2008
12:58PM EDT 
Email shayne
vertical line though im not gonna be eqanimous and quiescent when LIES are being told of mind.
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Reply from Lionel
Jun.12.2008
09:38PM EDT 
Email Lionel
vertical line ...yes... what can we possibly learn a thing or two from a babyhood ? Does a baby have thought or intention at all?  What is his or her mind like?
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Reply from ______
Jun.13.2008
07:33AM EDT 
vertical line I don't know, why don't you tell us. No, I lied, I do, I do . . . it's a secret. Here's a clue : it's why they are born toothless.
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Reply from glorymind
Jun.13.2008
12:55PM EDT 
vertical line Quote: "...yes... what can we possibly learn a thing or two from a babyhood ? Does a baby have thought or intention at all?  What is his or her mind like? "
.........

What can?

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Reply from Lionel
Jun.13.2008
10:14PM EDT 
Email Lionel
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Quote: "Quote: "...yes... what can we possibly learn a thing or two from a babyhood ? Does a baby have thought or intention at all?  What is his or her mind like? "
.........

What can?

"
.........

...can it be the arising thought causing for rebirthing...!? ...& what or who is rebirthing? When a new born baby begins to cling, he or she is working yet another fresh new chapter of concept...

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Reply from Snibbler
Jun.14.2008
03:12PM EDT 
vertical line Quote: "

babies are a very good example.

maybe some here could learn from them.

"
.........
What? Just be selffocused and roll around in ones own dirt? Hmmmm....
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Reply from ______
Jun.15.2008
09:22AM EDT 
vertical line What happens is babies get to hear about this kind of stuff from adults who think they mean well but really don't know what they're doing or what they are talking about. Parents, teachers, policemen and others - they are there to mess you up.
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Reply from Snibbler
Jun.24.2008
08:20PM EDT 
vertical line Quote: "

Quote: "There is joy. There is no one experiencing the joy. There is no one being joyful. "
.........

deluded.

"
.........

Sometimes I like to formulate the words,  "there really is no joy, just the abcense off..."
Tension? Micery? Craving?
or "content/ accepting what is thus not wanting.." or something?

Guess we can all agree that "joy" as a goal seperate from what is is a toungenumbing sentence.. glaaaa.. Mf thong mfhhh   ():)

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