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  Suiwo, the disciple of Hakuin, was a good teacher. On a certain day a certain pupil came to him, and Suiwo gave him the problem, "Hear the sound of one hand." The pupil remained three years, but could not pass the test. One night he came... continue...

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→→→→ vertical line TOPIC: HAPPINESS?
vertical line Posted on Jul.20.2008 @ 03:32PM EDT by Mslapik
Originally, the whole desire suffering thing made a lot of sense to me, but now I see that there are two models for happiness. One is that lack of suffering is happiness, so if you eliminate suffering you're fulfilled, whereas the other would say that just lack of suffering would lead to a neutral emotion, and that to be happy, desire must be fulfilled. In other words, lack of desire would just lead to a neutral emotion, not happiness. At this point, it seems like a matter of a opinion, so how do you guys know that your model is correct?

(please don't give those cryptic short answers that I can't get anything out of)

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Reply from lehish
Jul.20.2008
03:45PM EDT 
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vertical line what would happy-nothappy ?
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 83985
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Reply from lehish
Jul.20.2008
03:51PM EDT 
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vertical line  asking 'what would feel as if is happy-unhappy ?'
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 83986
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Reply from 9999999
Jul.20.2008
05:06PM EDT 
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because I cannot honestly say to myself "this is what I am" I have no way of telling myself "I am  happy" or "I am unhappy".

Getting what I want yields no satisfaction.  If I didnt get what I wanted I wasnt satisfied.  If I didnt get exactly what I wanted I wasn't satisfied.  Even if I got exactly what I wanted, I wasnt satisfied.  I always wanted more.  It's not like I got what I wanted and was satisfied such that I didn't want anything more.

Seeing the futilitity in this, instead of chasing after more things to get what I want (including enlightenment), I thought I'd better figure out what "I" was. After understanding what I am not, the idea of "getting what I want to make me happy" held no ground and ceased to arise. Also, after seeing that nothing "out there" appears anywhere but RIGHT HERE, similar ideas held no ground as well.

One might say that undercutting the whole process yields satisfaction.  One might also say that undercutting the whole process undercuts satisfaction, desire, and happiness.  I cannot say either.

What are you saying happiness is?  Getting what you want?  An emotion?  What is suffering?  Not getting what you want?  An emotion? The body doesnt want continued states of emotion..why do you?  Problems come in for you when you want what you dont have and dont want what you have.  Why not want what you have and dont want what you dont have?  You'll always get what you want.

You can't always get what you want and you cant sustain continued emotional states.  You dont have a chance at continued "happiness".


Forget it.  I don't have a model and I cannot say any model is correct. 

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