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  Suiwo, the disciple of Hakuin, was a good teacher. On a certain day a certain pupil came to him, and Suiwo gave him the problem, "Hear the sound of one hand." The pupil remained three years, but could not pass the test. One night he came... continue...

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→→→→ vertical line TOPIC: FALSENESS
vertical line Posted on Sep.11.2008 @ 08:46AM EDT by IZIZIZ

Truth be known.

Monks and nuns of any denomination, even Lamas, deep down believe in a god and fear finishing when death comes.

If not, why on earth would you become such a lifeless person?

In the Zen of things, there is nothing to gain other than the experience of such.

What for?????

Fear, denail, lies.

Better than Pedafile Priests Pty Ltd I suppose.


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Reply from Woodsman
Sep.11.2008
09:16AM EDT 
Email Woodsman
vertical line Bingo, because we need no intercession on others who we are not linked to directly through past lives. We have more in common with insects, more to learn through the little things, than from a pompous arrogant priest. But this is arrogant thought, without submissive intent, what is for the little is also for the big, until we open to all experience without need of ego building, bingo buildings, or some church building.
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Reply from shayne
Sep.11.2008
09:24AM EDT 
Email shayne
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the truth if things iziziz is this-

YOU dont know if their is a god.

i wont say yes.

i wont say no.

i will say i accept what is cause i have no choice.

so if their is a god so be it.

if their isnt so be it.

vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 86218
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Reply from shayne
Sep.11.2008
09:25AM EDT 
Email shayne
vertical line and that my friend is the FINAL word on it.
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 86219
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Reply from shayne
Sep.11.2008
09:37AM EDT 
Email shayne
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Quote: "Bingo, because we need no intercession on others who we are not linked to directly through past lives. We have more in common with insects, more to learn through the little things, than from a pompous arrogant priest. But this is arrogant thought, without submissive intent, what is for the little is also for the big, until we open to all experience without need of ego building, bingo buildings, or some church building. "
.........

big ?

little?

both!

ha!

vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 86222
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Reply from Woodsman
Sep.11.2008
11:58AM EDT 
Email Woodsman
vertical line Quote: "

Quote: "Bingo, because we need no intercession on others who we are not linked to directly through past lives. We have more in common with insects, more to learn through the little things, than from a pompous arrogant priest. But this is arrogant thought, without submissive intent, what is for the little is also for the big, until we open to all experience without need of ego building, bingo buildings, or some church building. "
.........

big ?

little?

both!

ha!


the benefit?

"
.........
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 86228
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Reply from shayne
Sep.11.2008
04:56PM EDT 
Email shayne
vertical line Quote: "Quote: "

Quote: "Bingo, because we need no intercession on others who we are not linked to directly through past lives. We have more in common with insects, more to learn through the little things, than from a pompous arrogant priest. But this is arrogant thought, without submissive intent, what is for the little is also for the big, until we open to all experience without need of ego building, bingo buildings, or some church building. "
.........

big ?

little?

both!

ha!


the benefit?

"
......... "
.........

"
.........
"
.........

the big and little is handed to us wether want thtem to come or not johny cat.

no choice.

haha.

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Reply from shayne
Sep.11.2008
05:25PM EDT 
Email shayne
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This FALSENESS you speak of is only in your head.

not ALL zen buddhists deep down beleive in god.

tough if you dont like it.

vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 86263
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Reply from Woodsman
Sep.11.2008
09:01PM EDT 
Email Woodsman
vertical line I don't believe in me, to see it.
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 86271
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Reply from immortal 1
Sep.12.2008
03:56AM EDT 
vertical line I believe in God because I remember being it.  Thus I know that I am it, as are you, as is everything.  I don't call myself  'Immortal'  because I believe that I will be, but because I already am.  I remember the forever that has already passed.  And I also know, because of that, that all that I have perceived is but one possibility.  So I'm not saying what really is, or what really is not, because I have no such luxury.
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Reply from emancipate
Sep.12.2008
05:18AM EDT 
vertical line Quote: "I believe in God because I remember being it.  Thus I know that I am it, as are you, as is everything.  I don't call myself  'Immortal'  because I believe that I will be, but because I already am.  I remember the forever that has already passed.  And I also know, because of that, that all that I have perceived is but one possibility.  So I'm not saying what really is, or what really is not, because I have no such luxury."
.........

So what are the mechanics of this not-being-God-anymore thing? I mean, do you have an alternate cosmology to quantum mechanics?

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Reply from emancipate
Sep.12.2008
05:20AM EDT 
vertical line Quote: "

YOU dont know if their is a god.

i wont say yes.

i wont say no.

"
.........

I'm agnostic. To urine-drinking, that is. Some people say it's healthy.
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Reply from IZIZIZ
Sep.12.2008
08:06AM EDT 
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So far, I know my topic statement to be correct.

When you experience nothingness, what is the purpose of being a monk or whatever.

When you experience nothingness you know that there is no god.

When you experience nothingness you know that monks and such are trying to trying to secure something through methodology, and for what, to achieve, to go where?

Its there isnt it. Deep down they believe in god yet dance around the issue by camoflaguing it with buddhist intellectualisation.

Thats all.

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Reply from shayne
Sep.12.2008
09:27AM EDT 
Email shayne
vertical line Quote: "

So far, I know my topic statement to be correct.

When you experience nothingness, what is the purpose of being a monk or whatever.

When you experience nothingness you know that there is no god.

When you experience nothingness you know that monks and such are trying to trying to secure something through methodology, and for what, to achieve, to go where?

Its there isnt it. Deep down they believe in god yet dance around the issue by camoflaguing it with buddhist intellectualisation.

Thats all.

"
.........

"
.........

maybe some do.......

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Reply from shayne
Sep.12.2008
09:56AM EDT 
Email shayne
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Quote: "I believe in God because I remember being it.  Thus I know that I am it, as are you, as is everything.  I don't call myself  'Immortal'  because I believe that I will be, but because I already am.  I remember the forever that has already passed.  And I also know, because of that, that all that I have perceived is but one possibility.  So I'm not saying what really is, or what really is not, because I have no such luxury."
.........

must be don.

haha.

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Reply from emancipate
Sep.12.2008
10:17AM EDT 
vertical line Quote: "

When you experience nothingness you know that there is no god.

When you experience nothingness you know that monks and such are trying to trying to secure something through methodology, and for what, to achieve, to go where?

Its there isnt it. Deep down they believe in god yet dance around the issue by camoflaguing it with buddhist intellectualisation.

"
.........

No "you" in nothingness. No nothingness in nothingness? ;)

Where did you come up with this? Kinda know what you mean, if you're referring to the philosophical progression that occurred as Hinduism was evolved into a godless Buddhism.

But the Zen tradition is old. They didn't really have iPods to replenish the missing meaning from their lives... ;)

I understand it as a retiree's occupation.

vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 86336
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Reply from shayne
Sep.12.2008
10:37AM EDT 
Email shayne
vertical line Quote: "Quote: "

When you experience nothingness you know that there is no god.

When you experience nothingness you know that monks and such are trying to trying to secure something through methodology, and for what, to achieve, to go where?

Its there isnt it. Deep down they believe in god yet dance around the issue by camoflaguing it with buddhist intellectualisation.

"
.........

No "you" in nothingness. No nothingness in nothingness? ;)

Where did you come up with this? Kinda know what you mean, if you're referring to the philosophical progression that occurred as Hinduism was evolved into a godless Buddhism.

But the Zen tradition is old. They didn't really have iPods to replenish the missing meaning from their lives... ;)

I understand it as a retiree's occupation.

"
.........

"
.........

No "you" in nothingness. No nothingness in nothingness? ;)

Where did you come up with this? Kinda know what you mean, if you're referring to the philosophical progression that occurred as Hinduism was evolved into a godless Buddhism.

But the Zen tradition is old. They didn't really have iPods to replenish the missing meaning from their lives... ;)

I understand it as a retiree's occupation.

"
.........

so you into zen or hinduism?

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Reply from emancipate
Sep.12.2008
11:16AM EDT 
vertical line Quote: "Quote: "Quote: "
"
.........

so you into zen or hinduism?

"
.........

Neither, but I hear banana muffins are good.
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Reply from shayne
Sep.12.2008
11:40AM EDT 
Email shayne
vertical line Quote: "Quote: "Quote: "Quote: "
"
.........

so you into zen or hinduism?

"
.........

Neither, but I hear banana muffins are good.
"
.........

"
.........

Neither, but I hear banana muffins are good.
"
.........

haha.......

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Reply from lehish
Sep.12.2008
02:15PM EDT 
Email lehish
vertical line Quote: "Quote: "Quote: "Quote: "
"
.........

so you into zen or hinduism?

"
.........

Neither, but I hear banana muffins are good.
"
.........

"
.........

Neither, but I hear banana muffins are good.
"
.........

hehehehe

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Reply from etcetra
Sep.13.2008
12:54AM EDT 
vertical line A lot of monks and priests are there because they want to play the role as a healer, teacher.. it's their desire to do something good for others, no matter how deluded they are.. A lot of people seek teachers like that because they want explanation for what's going on in their lives.. if you can blame Karma or the original sin, it makes you less responsible for who you are.. after all if good/bad things happens, its karma, or God meant it for you. And cliches like "You can create any reality you want" are nice to hear, easy to believe
It's like people are putting a carrot on a stick in front of them and constantly chasing.. there is no end to it, they are obviously misguided, but hey at least they got answers to life.
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Reply from 9999999
Sep.13.2008
02:38AM EDT 
Email 9999999
vertical line Quote: "A lot of monks and priests are there because they want to play the role as a healer, teacher.. it's their desire to do something good for others, no matter how deluded they are.. A lot of people seek teachers like that because they want explanation for what's going on in their lives.. if you can blame Karma or the original sin, it makes you less responsible for who you are.. after all if good/bad things happens, its karma, or God meant it for you. And cliches like "You can create any reality you want" are nice to hear, easy to believe
It's like people are putting a carrot on a stick in front of them and constantly chasing.. there is no end to it, they are obviously misguided, but hey at least they got answers to life.
"
.........


hehehhehehee
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Reply from immortal 1
Sep.13.2008
07:54AM EDT 
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Quote: "Quote: "I believe in God because I remember being it.  Thus I know that I am it, as are you, as is everything.  I don't call myself  'Immortal'  because I believe that I will be, but because I already am.  I remember the forever that has already passed.  And I also know, because of that, that all that I have perceived is but one possibility.  So I'm not saying what really is, or what really is not, because I have no such luxury."
.........

So what are the mechanics of this not-being-God-anymore thing? I mean, do you have an alternate cosmology to quantum mechanics?

"
.........

No mechanics.  It just is as It is. 

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Reply from immortal 1
Sep.13.2008
07:58AM EDT 
vertical line Quote: "

Quote: "I believe in God because I remember being it.  Thus I know that I am it, as are you, as is everything.  I don't call myself  'Immortal'  because I believe that I will be, but because I already am.  I remember the forever that has already passed.  And I also know, because of that, that all that I have perceived is but one possibility.  So I'm not saying what really is, or what really is not, because I have no such luxury."
.........

must be don.

haha.

"
.........

"
.........

You're always the one who catches me.  But I'm not trying to hide.  I drop in once in a while to see how you are doing and by then I can't remember my old password.  Someone has resurected the number9 moniker though, I see.

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Reply from immortal 1
Sep.13.2008
08:06AM EDT 
vertical line Quote: "Quote: "

When you experience nothingness you know that there is no god.

When you experience nothingness you know that monks and such are trying to trying to secure something through methodology, and for what, to achieve, to go where?

Its there isnt it. Deep down they believe in god yet dance around the issue by camoflaguing it with buddhist intellectualisation.

"
.........

No "you" in nothingness. No nothingness in nothingness? ;)

Where did you come up with this? Kinda know what you mean, if you're referring to the philosophical progression that occurred as Hinduism was evolved into a godless Buddhism.

But the Zen tradition is old. They didn't really have iPods to replenish the missing meaning from their lives... ;)

I understand it as a retiree's occupation.

"
.........

"
.........

No "you" in nothingness. No nothingness in nothingness? ;)

Where did you come up with this? Kinda know what you mean, if you're referring to the philosophical progression that occurred as Hinduism was evolved into a godless Buddhism.

But the Zen tradition is old. They didn't really have iPods to replenish the missing meaning from their lives... ;)

I understand it as a retiree's occupation.

"
.........

Many seek 'The Truth'.  Often they come to believe it is Nothing or Nothingness.

The truth is that there is no truth.  The reality is that there is no reality.  Nothing and Nothingness, God, The Void, or whatever you like, are just some of an infinite number of possibilities.  Yet I have perceived them, and I know them to be as real as anything else, they are not reality.

Its all true, and none of it is.  Its all real, and none of it is. Hang onto nothing, but not literally.   What you are doing, as you progress, is building up the strength and confidence to let go of everything.  To become unattached.

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Reply from emancipate
Sep.13.2008
10:18AM EDT 
vertical line Quote: "Quote: "Quote: "

Many seek 'The Truth'.  Often they come to believe it is Nothing or Nothingness.

The truth is that there is no truth.  The reality is that there is no reality.  Nothing and Nothingness, God, The Void, or whatever you like, are just some of an infinite number of possibilities.  Yet I have perceived them, and I know them to be as real as anything else, they are not reality.

Its all true, and none of it is.  Its all real, and none of it is. Hang onto nothing, but not literally.   What you are doing, as you progress, is building up the strength and confidence to let go of everything.  To become unattached.

"
.........

So: the truth is that there is no truth or reality. Thus there is a truth. Thus, this sentence is false. ;)

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Reply from immortal 1
Sep.16.2008
06:26AM EDT 
vertical line Quote: "Quote: "Quote: "Quote: "

Many seek 'The Truth'.  Often they come to believe it is Nothing or Nothingness.

The truth is that there is no truth.  The reality is that there is no reality.  Nothing and Nothingness, God, The Void, or whatever you like, are just some of an infinite number of possibilities.  Yet I have perceived them, and I know them to be as real as anything else, they are not reality.

Its all true, and none of it is.  Its all real, and none of it is. Hang onto nothing, but not literally.   What you are doing, as you progress, is building up the strength and confidence to let go of everything.  To become unattached.

"
.........

So: the truth is that there is no truth or reality. Thus there is a truth. Thus, this sentence is false. ;)

"
.........

"
.........

So: the truth is that there is no truth or reality. Thus there is a truth. Thus, this sentence is false. ;)

"
.........

Yes I know.  Its a paradox.  It is hard sometimes to live with the paradox, but now it is easy to die, or even to cease existing in the ego sense of things.  As Shunryo Suzuki said on his deathbed, "I am not afraid to die.  I know who I really am."  And in like sense, I know who I really am not.  I am really not this character that I created to act out in this play.

What am I, who am I, really then?  The possibilities are unlimited and endless. So what is that which can be anything, or nothing at all?  It just is whatever it is being.  And if I die or cease to exist, as this ego being, what does that matter?

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Reply from IZIZIZ
Sep.16.2008
07:46AM EDT 
vertical line

Yes I know.  Its a paradox.  It is hard sometimes to live with the paradox, but now it is easy to die, or even to cease existing in the ego sense of things.  As Shunryo Suzuki said on his deathbed, "I am not afraid to die.  I know who I really am."  And in like sense, I know who I really am not.  I am really not this character that I created to act out in this play.

What am I, who am I, really then?  The possibilities are unlimited and endless. So what is that which can be anything, or nothing at all?  It just is whatever it is being.  And if I die or cease to exist, as this ego being, what does that matter?

Paradox is reality.

It stands alone, not in contrast to anything else because it is its own contrast, hence you and I. Thus paradox.

Paradox is reality.

YOU are reality. You are paradox.

There is no non-reality.

How does reality die.

It cant.

Only you and I can.

Paradox again.

No death. No birth. When we are reality.

Birth and death, when we are you and I.

You and I, the conscious. Reality, the unconscious.

The Buddha was known for experience of the unconscious.

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Reply from Snibbler
Sep.16.2008
07:51AM EDT 
vertical line OH MY GOD I SEE IT NOW!! ITS ALL SO CLEAR AND... orrh, wait, hmmmm.... sorry, nothing.
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 86505
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Reply from IZIZIZ
Sep.16.2008
07:57AM EDT 
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Quote: "OH MY GOD I SEE IT NOW!! ITS ALL SO CLEAR AND... orrh, wait, hmmmm.... sorry, nothing. "
.........

Is this what you mean?

vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 86506
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Reply from Lynnoh
Sep.16.2008
01:19PM EDT 
Email Lynnoh
vertical line Quote: "

Quote: "OH MY GOD I SEE IT NOW!! ITS ALL SO CLEAR AND... orrh, wait, hmmmm.... sorry, nothing. "
.........

Is this what you mean?

"
.........

"
.........

ohh!

vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 86555
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Reply from Snibbler
Sep.16.2008
07:42PM EDT 
vertical line Quote: "

Quote: "OH MY GOD I SEE IT NOW!! ITS ALL SO CLEAR AND... orrh, wait, hmmmm.... sorry, nothing. "
.........

Is this what you mean?

"
........
You can label it, name it, discuss it, think about it, but what are we talking about? Paradox? Like understanding that there are no enlightenment to attain and thus becoming enlightened?
Just write stuff, and you respond, m:)ean nothing bout it
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 86581
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Reply from lehish
Sep.16.2008
08:47PM EDT 
Email lehish
vertical line :)
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 86589
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Reply from immortal 1
Sep.17.2008
06:07AM EDT 
vertical line Quote: "

Yes I know.  Its a paradox.  It is hard sometimes to live with the paradox, but now it is easy to die, or even to cease existing in the ego sense of things.  As Shunryo Suzuki said on his deathbed, "I am not afraid to die.  I know who I really am."  And in like sense, I know who I really am not.  I am really not this character that I created to act out in this play.

What am I, who am I, really then?  The possibilities are unlimited and endless. So what is that which can be anything, or nothing at all?  It just is whatever it is being.  And if I die or cease to exist, as this ego being, what does that matter?

Paradox is reality.

It stands alone, not in contrast to anything else because it is its own contrast, hence you and I. Thus paradox.

Paradox is reality.

YOU are reality. You are paradox.

There is no non-reality.

How does reality die.

It cant.

Only you and I can.

Paradox again.

No death. No birth. When we are reality.

Birth and death, when we are you and I.

You and I, the conscious. Reality, the unconscious.

The Buddha was known for experience of the unconscious.

"
.........

"
.........

Yes, well, in the words of the great philosopher Bill Clinton, it all depends on what your definition of the word 'is' is.

You are so lucky to have one.

vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 86610
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Reply from immortal 1
Sep.18.2008
06:36AM EDT 
vertical line Quote: "Quote: "

When you experience nothingness you know that there is no god.

When you experience nothingness you know that monks and such are trying to trying to secure something through methodology, and for what, to achieve, to go where?

Its there isnt it. Deep down they believe in god yet dance around the issue by camoflaguing it with buddhist intellectualisation.

"
.........

No "you" in nothingness. No nothingness in nothingness? ;)

Where did you come up with this? Kinda know what you mean, if you're referring to the philosophical progression that occurred as Hinduism was evolved into a godless Buddhism.

But the Zen tradition is old. They didn't really have iPods to replenish the missing meaning from their lives... ;)

I understand it as a retiree's occupation.

"
.........

"
.........

No "you" in nothingness. No nothingness in nothingness? ;)

Where did you come up with this? Kinda know what you mean, if you're referring to the philosophical progression that occurred as Hinduism was evolved into a godless Buddhism.

But the Zen tradition is old. They didn't really have iPods to replenish the missing meaning from their lives... ;)

I understand it as a retiree's occupation.

"
.........

Back to paradox again.

When you experience 'nothingness' you realize that there is nothing but God, and that you really are God, because there is not anything else left but that one 'awareness' that is you.

The question really is, if there is no one but God is God God to God?

Try saying that really fast three times.

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Reply from IZIZIZ
Sep.18.2008
08:20AM EDT 
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THE BIGGEST PROBLEM IN THIS MIND/REALITY/WORLD IS THAT CONCEPT.

THAT CONCEPT CALLED GOD.

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Reply from emancipate
Sep.18.2008
08:31AM EDT 
vertical line Quote: "

Back to paradox again.

When you experience 'nothingness' you realize that there is nothing but God, and that you really are God, because there is not anything else left but that one 'awareness' that is you.

The question really is, if there is no one but God is God God to God?

Try saying that really fast three times.

"
.........

What is God to me?

What is God to dog?

What is dog to me?

Awareness? God? What are you naming?

vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 86672
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Reply from shayne
Sep.18.2008
10:01AM EDT 
Email shayne
vertical line Quote: "Quote: "

Back to paradox again.

When you experience 'nothingness' you realize that there is nothing but God, and that you really are God, because there is not anything else left but that one 'awareness' that is you.

The question really is, if there is no one but God is God God to God?

Try saying that really fast three times.

"
.........

What is God to me?

What is God to dog?

What is dog to me?

Awareness? God? What are you naming?

"
.........

"
.........

What is God to me?

What is God to dog?

What is dog to me?

Awareness? God? What are you naming?

"
.........

naming....exactly.

what does it POINT too?

dont get me wrong.

i like SOME of the christian religion.

but time dont exist.

and prophacies can be changed.

will jesus come back?

the answer is yes.

but it will NOT be like we think it to be.

will guatama come back?

the answer is yes.

and it WILL be what we percieved it to be.

buddhism is OLDER then christianity.

reincarnation is fact to guatama.

the soul is FACT to me.

to me god = reality.

or the whole of reality.

but thats just names.

and i point to "nothing" to describe god.

everything is god to me.

is was and always will be ( the universe )

the big bang is not true.

their is other theories.

science also serves me as a parital aspect of reality.

vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 86682
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Reply from emancipate
Sep.18.2008
11:59AM EDT 
vertical line Quote: "

will jesus come back?

will guatama come back?

"
.........

I claim myself Guatama-Jesus. Am I back?

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Reply from shayne
Sep.18.2008
12:14PM EDT 
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ummmmm.

reincarnation is a possible outcome.

but this life is holy and personally i dont care if they do.

maybe for people like woodsman and don.

not for me.

even with my biploar.

ill save myself man,

ok thanks for being honest.

i appericate your honesty.

your a refreshing insight here on zenguide.

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Reply from lehish
Sep.18.2008
01:20PM EDT 
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 even with my biploar."

 .........

.........

does idea "my bipolar" comfort ?

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