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  A monk who had studied under the Zen master Kassan for a period of time.
Then he left him to go to many other places for more Zen enquiry.
However, he could not find any place that fitted him.
Furthermore, at any place visited,... continue...

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→→→→ vertical line TOPIC: LEVELS TO ENLIGHTENMENT?
vertical line Posted on Sep.16.2008 @ 10:27AM EDT by shayne

are their levels to enlightenment?

seems so.

with kensho and all that.

till satori.

teachers teaching teachers.

seems so.

are we the best their has to offer?

hope not.

hahahahhaahhahaha.

just joking,

actually their has some brillant minds here on zenguide.

gassho.


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Reply from Woodsman
Sep.16.2008
10:47AM EDT 
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vertical line um, all levels of enlightenment, if you wanna call it that, are answered in my book, So A/an, why the sorry pus? Oops, its 'Sorry A/an, and Other' s... sour pusses
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 86536
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Reply from shayne
Sep.16.2008
10:52AM EDT 
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vertical line haha.
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 86541
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Reply from Woodsman
Sep.16.2008
10:54AM EDT 
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vertical line any laughing must be done on my 'Sorry A/an'  thread... quietly
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 86543
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Reply from shayne
Sep.16.2008
11:01AM EDT 
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vertical line sorry sir.
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 86547
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Reply from Woodsman
Sep.16.2008
11:23AM EDT 
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vertical line he heard you
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 86551
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Reply from shayne
Sep.16.2008
11:29AM EDT 
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whos that ?

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Reply from immortal 1
Sep.17.2008
06:19AM EDT 
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I think it is like blowing up a balloon.

At first you huff and puff and it is very hard.  You may not get the whole balloon blown up before you have to rest.  And then the balloon deflates again.

Then you try again and the part that you blew up before is easy to fill up with air and you make more progress blowing up the balloon.  But you might not make it then either.

The next time the balloon fills right up to where you left off and you can make more progress after that.

And the process continues until the balloon blows up, and then you have nothing.

Its not levels.  Its a continuing process.  A little more added onto a little more.

I became awakened in 1990.  Its still going.  A little bit at a time.  The difference is that since awakening I have been very happy in the love of the self.

Maybe that's selfish or narcisistic.  Yeah, so?  To thine own self be true.

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Reply from IZIZIZ
Sep.17.2008
07:46AM EDT 
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When the potter puts a handle on a round cup, where does he put it?

No levels.

vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 86615
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Reply from lehish
Sep.17.2008
03:19PM EDT 
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vertical line :)
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 86647
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Reply from 9999999
Sep.17.2008
06:47PM EDT 
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vertical line Quote: "

When the potter puts a handle on a round cup, where does he put it?


No levels.

"
.........

=P




vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 86649
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Reply from shayne
Sep.17.2008
09:35PM EDT 
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their is levels to understanding or we wouldnt have had people like hitler

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Reply from emancipate
Sep.17.2008
10:21PM EDT 
vertical line Quote: "

their is levels to understanding or we wouldnt have had people like hitler

"
.........

Exactly what I was thinking. It takes a great liberation to overcome one's cultural programming (dismissing moral scruples... etc), to finally see the greater good. One, like Hitler, then becomes a social servant. A great mover. A man of action.

vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 86653
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Reply from lehish
Sep.17.2008
11:54PM EDT 
Email lehish
vertical line Quote: "

their is levels to understanding or we wouldnt have had people like hitler

"
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"
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but you said "are their levels to enlightenment?" not  "are their levels to understanding?"

vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 86655
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Reply from immortal 1
Sep.18.2008
05:43AM EDT 
vertical line Quote: "Quote: "

their is levels to understanding or we wouldnt have had people like hitler

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but you said "are their levels to enlightenment?" not  "are their levels to understanding?"

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You lost me on this one Lehish.  Satori is a Japanese word that means 'understanding'.  Enlightenment doesn't really mean anything, its just a term for Satori.  So in terms of talking about it, enlightenment and understanding are pretty much the same thing.

What is there to understand?  Nothing really.  But understanding that is enlightenment. 

You could do as well with Physics if you have a more mathematical bent.  In that vein, its all just atoms constantly changing into other kinds of atoms, so that there is no way to say what anything really is because its not what it was, or what it will be.

I like philosophy, so I would rather be a Zen Monk than a Physicist.

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Reply from IZIZIZ
Sep.18.2008
08:31AM EDT 
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Kensho and Satori seem to be two seperate words.

Probably because they are two seperate experiences.

Yes, experience is experience, but no two experiences are the same, hence neither kensho nor satori are the same for any two people ever.

Put your handle on your cup so that you may drink potter.

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Reply from shayne
Sep.18.2008
09:26AM EDT 
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kensho is smaller understandings or insights into reality.

satroi is one big whoop. understanding it all at once.

or complete awakening.

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Reply from shayne
Sep.18.2008
09:38AM EDT 
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What is there to understand?  Nothing really.  But understanding that is enlightenment. 

their is a million  and one things to understand.

the eye has but to focus on it.

for example what causes car sickness?

to me.........when you focus on say trees whizzing bye this creates a pseduo anxiety attack and the body is affected by the mind. so in essence the stomach gets upset.

another.

i discovered for myself that dysleics can read scrambled words and actually improve their reading. this was later found out to be true.

also i discovered for myself that time dont really exist.

if i was intelligent enoufe to remember half of what ive self discovered id be a genious. but im not.

but one day ill reach my own " satori " and i will change the world.

did you know that the prophet of islam i think ti is or muhameed discovered the exact distance the sun is from the earth? ( i could be wrong on this one )

anyway......what else.

DONT be hung up on emptiness. theirs a million things to talk about.

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Reply from shayne
Sep.18.2008
09:53AM EDT 
Email shayne
vertical line Quote: "Quote: "

their is levels to understanding or we wouldnt have had people like hitler

"
.........

Exactly what I was thinking. It takes a great liberation to overcome one's cultural programming (dismissing moral scruples... etc), to finally see the greater good. One, like Hitler, then becomes a social servant. A great mover. A man of action.
"
.........

"
.........

Exactly what I was thinking. It takes a great liberation to overcome one's cultural programming (dismissing moral scruples... etc), to finally see the greater good. One, like Hitler, then becomes a social servant. A great mover. A man of action.
"
.........

i like you emanicapte. you seem to have a good head on your shoulders. stick around the forums please. well discuss more in due time.

vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 86681
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