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  One day when Fa-yen Wen-i (885-958), one of the well known Chinese Ch'an masters,
has ascended his seat. From the assembly, a monk came out and asked:
-What is one drop of water from the fount of Tsao-ch'i?
Fa-yen repied:
-It's... continue...

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→→→→ vertical line TOPIC: SELF
vertical line Posted on Sep.18.2008 @ 07:27AM EDT by etcetra
It's a different perspective when you see everything as the SELF, , everything is just is. you are that which is looking and what you are looking at is You. you don't even stop to think about God or You, my self comes into existence with awareness. But when I am listening to great music, or film, or see the sunrise or the stars at night.. that "me" is not there, only afterwards in thoughts do i feel like "i was touched by God at that moment" paradox only exist in the words, the way we think things.
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Reply from IZIZIZ
Sep.18.2008
08:14AM EDT 
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I feel that paradox is there all the time.

When you are all, paradox does not come to mind, but yet paradox is what you are experiencing without consciously being aware. The unconscious.

When you are you there is a conscious awareness of the the experience of the paradox. Consciousness.

This whole contrast is paradox in itself. Unconsciousness/consciousness, the one being.

Where is there no paradox in paradox?

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Reply from emancipate
Sep.18.2008
08:18AM EDT 
vertical line A quote comes to mind of some random junky. Upon 'attainment', he said, "no practise was necessary, in every moment I upheld the ancient way".

vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 86668
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Reply from etcetra
Sep.18.2008
09:24AM EDT 
vertical line Maybe the truth can only be expressed via paradox when using thoughts.. the paradox is always there if you think about it, upon reflection. It seems like all product of thoughts ultimately comes to paradox.. there is paradox in science, math, in art. I am still puzzled about what dividing by 0 means or trying to figure out M.C Escher's Painting. The point is not about trying to figure out an answer but to realize what's in front of you, what was there all this time.
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Reply from shayne
Sep.18.2008
10:04AM EDT 
Email shayne
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Quote: "A quote comes to mind of some random junky. Upon 'attainment', he said, "no practise was necessary, in every moment I upheld the ancient way".

"
.........

once the mind is " discovered " you realize youve been practicing all along.

but practice we must till this mind is discovered.

mind looks for mind.

vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 86683
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Reply from shayne
Sep.18.2008
10:05AM EDT 
Email shayne
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i DONT see everything as the self.

i see the self as a partial aspect of the whole of existance.

the end.

this is reality.

vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 86684
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Reply from shayne
Sep.18.2008
10:10AM EDT 
Email shayne
vertical line Quote: "

I feel that paradox is there all the time.

When you are all, paradox does not come to mind, but yet paradox is what you are experiencing without consciously being aware. The unconscious.

When you are you there is a conscious awareness of the the experience of the paradox. Consciousness.

This whole contrast is paradox in itself. Unconsciousness/consciousness, the one being.

Where is there no paradox in paradox?

"
.........

"
.........

paradox is in your mind and in your mind alone.

see past this paradox iziziz.

paradox = confusion.

confusion is a thing we make.

vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 86685
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Reply from -----0
Sep.18.2008
10:43AM EDT 
vertical line Thought-gymnastics about Self is futile
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 86690
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Reply from etcetra
Sep.18.2008
10:43AM EDT 
vertical line self or Self?
I don't see the self as a part or whole or anything like that. its in realizing that what you are looking at or touching is as much as self as what you call your self or ego.
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 86689
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Reply from shayne
Sep.18.2008
10:44AM EDT 
Email shayne
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it isnt.

YOU are NOT me.

the end.

vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 86691
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Reply from -----0
Sep.18.2008
10:47AM EDT 
vertical line does it strengthen your brain cells?
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 86695
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Reply from shayne
Sep.18.2008
10:51AM EDT 
Email shayne
vertical line what?
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 86698
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Reply from etcetra
Sep.18.2008
12:24PM EDT 
vertical line Thou Art that.
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 86713
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Reply from etcetra
Sep.18.2008
12:34PM EDT 
vertical line I think some people likes mental gymnastics, its not that much different from body builders showing off their body.
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 86714
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Reply from lehish
Sep.18.2008
01:22PM EDT 
Email lehish
vertical line Quote: "

Quote: "A quote comes to mind of some random junky. Upon 'attainment', he said, "no practise was necessary, in every moment I upheld the ancient way".

"
.........

once the mind is " discovered " you realize youve been practicing all along.

but practice we must till this mind is discovered.

mind looks for mind.

"
.........

"
.........

does the idea that there's a mind comfort ?

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Reply from lehish
Sep.18.2008
01:24PM EDT 
Email lehish
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Quote: "I think some people likes mental gymnastics, its not that much different from body builders showing off their body."
.........

:)

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Reply from lehish
Sep.18.2008
01:27PM EDT 
Email lehish
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Quote: "self or Self?
I don't see the self as a part or whole or anything like that. its in realizing that what you are looking at or touching is as much as self as what you call your self or ego.
"
.........

word 'self' is misleading, whether s or S, as if there's a substantial something-nothing-anything

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Reply from shayne
Sep.18.2008
06:12PM EDT 
Email shayne
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Quote: "I think some people likes mental gymnastics, its not that much different from body builders showing off their body."
.........

zen isnt the end.

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Reply from etcetra
Sep.18.2008
09:15PM EDT 
vertical line I think i've strayed from my original point.. it was about how you forget about yourself when you are immersed in something, it's about how you stop thinking "I" this "I" that. It happens all the time.
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Reply from Bluerose
Sep.19.2008
04:00AM EDT 
vertical line The thing to remember is that these are just words and most of our words come from our conditioning. As we grow we may replace these words with more suitable words of our own.
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 86773
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Reply from immortal 1
Sep.19.2008
04:44AM EDT 
vertical line Quote: "

i DONT see everything as the self.

i see the self as a partial aspect of the whole of existance.

the end.

this is reality.

"
.........

"
.........

Namaste is a greeting that means, in essence, 'the part of the self that is within me salutes the part of the self that is within you, as we are both within the self."

There is no paradox in that thought, and any duality is dispelled as well. 

Like two drops of water meeting in the ocean. 

Realities are like opinions, which are like... you know the saying.  Everyone has one, and everyone thinks that theirs is the one that does not stink. Your reality is your perception.  Its entirely variable. 

In your case, because of your Bi-Polar condition, your focus is on 'attention' because of 'concrete thinking'.  You probably also have an excellent memory, which is characteristic of  your condition.  These things can be advantages, or disadvantages, depending on application. 

Some of my friends who have similar conditions get angry with me for always using analogies and metaphors in speaking because they have trouble figuring them out and see that sort of thing as unnecessary.  They also think I do not 'pay attention' as much as I should.

One is not better than the other.  If you can meditate you can open your mind and receive 'transmissions' from your inner-self, the self.  That's what its all about.

vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 86776
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Reply from immortal 1
Sep.19.2008
04:59AM EDT 
vertical line Quote: "Quote: "

Quote: "A quote comes to mind of some random junky. Upon 'attainment', he said, "no practise was necessary, in every moment I upheld the ancient way".

"
.........

once the mind is " discovered " you realize youve been practicing all along.

but practice we must till this mind is discovered.

mind looks for mind.

"
.........

"
.........

does the idea that there's a mind comfort ?

"
......... I like the idea that after you find yourself you realize that you were looking and did not know it.  I also like the idea of 'mind comfort'.  Is that anything like Southern Comfort liquor, Lehishy baby?

"
......... I like the idea that after you find yourself you realize that you were looking and did not know it.  I also like the idea of 'mind comfort'.  Is that anything like Southern Comfort liquor, Lehishy baby?

I had been meditating for 16 years before I found the self.  I had read about Satori but did not believe it would ever happen to me.  No, I was just an adventurer.  I liked the high adventures of transcendental meditation, and I still do. 

But afterwards I realized that all of those adventures had been preparation for Satori.  And that is why I tell people not to place limitations on their meditation.  Let what comes come.  Your inner-self, the self, knows what it is doing in preparing you.

I know also that there is no greater 'mind comfort' than the self.  I know that Gautama Buddha died of food poisioning from historical accounts.  I know also that he did not mind dying because he had the 'mind comfort' of the self.  He did not lose his life, or anything else either.  He never had anything to lose, and he knew it.

vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 86777
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Reply from shayne
Sep.19.2008
10:17AM EDT 
Email shayne
vertical line Quote: "Quote: "

i DONT see everything as the self.

i see the self as a partial aspect of the whole of existance.

the end.

this is reality.

"
.........

"
.........

Namaste is a greeting that means, in essence, 'the part of the self that is within me salutes the part of the self that is within you, as we are both within the self."

There is no paradox in that thought, and any duality is dispelled as well. 

Like two drops of water meeting in the ocean. 

Realities are like opinions, which are like... you know the saying.  Everyone has one, and everyone thinks that theirs is the one that does not stink. Your reality is your perception.  Its entirely variable. 

In your case, because of your Bi-Polar condition, your focus is on 'attention' because of 'concrete thinking'.  You probably also have an excellent memory, which is characteristic of  your condition.  These things can be advantages, or disadvantages, depending on application. 

Some of my friends who have similar conditions get angry with me for always using analogies and metaphors in speaking because they have trouble figuring them out and see that sort of thing as unnecessary.  They also think I do not 'pay attention' as much as I should.

One is not better than the other.  If you can meditate you can open your mind and receive 'transmissions' from your inner-self, the self.  That's what its all about.

"
.........

"
.........

you LABELED me " concrete thinking ".

dont think this is true in my case.

and my memory is poor save certain things.

and the attention is the mind is the guiding light.

vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 86788
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Reply from lehish
Sep.19.2008
12:18PM EDT 
Email lehish
vertical line Quote: "Quote: "Quote: "

i DONT see everything as the self.

i see the self as a partial aspect of the whole of existance.

the end.

this is reality.

"
.........

"
.........

Namaste is a greeting that means, in essence, 'the part of the self that is within me salutes the part of the self that is within you, as we are both within the self."

There is no paradox in that thought, and any duality is dispelled as well. 

Like two drops of water meeting in the ocean. 

Realities are like opinions, which are like... you know the saying.  Everyone has one, and everyone thinks that theirs is the one that does not stink. Your reality is your perception.  Its entirely variable. 

In your case, because of your Bi-Polar condition, your focus is on 'attention' because of 'concrete thinking'.  You probably also have an excellent memory, which is characteristic of  your condition.  These things can be advantages, or disadvantages, depending on application. 

Some of my friends who have similar conditions get angry with me for always using analogies and metaphors in speaking because they have trouble figuring them out and see that sort of thing as unnecessary.  They also think I do not 'pay attention' as much as I should.

One is not better than the other.  If you can meditate you can open your mind and receive 'transmissions' from your inner-self, the self.  That's what its all about.

"
.........

"
.........

you LABELED me " concrete thinking ".

dont think this is true in my case.

and my memory is poor save certain things.

and the attention is the mind is the guiding light.

"
.........

"
.........

but is believed label "my bipolar" ?

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Reply from lehish
Sep.19.2008
06:02PM EDT 
Email lehish
vertical line Quote: "Quote: "Quote: "

Quote: "A quote comes to mind of some random junky. Upon 'attainment', he said, "no practise was necessary, in every moment I upheld the ancient way".

"
.........

once the mind is " discovered " you realize youve been practicing all along.

but practice we must till this mind is discovered.

mind looks for mind.

"
.........

"
.........

does the idea that there's a mind comfort ?

"
......... I like the idea that after you find yourself you realize that you were looking and did not know it.  I also like the idea of 'mind comfort'.  Is that anything like Southern Comfort liquor, Lehishy baby?

"
......... I like the idea that after you find yourself you realize that you were looking and did not know it.  I also like the idea of 'mind comfort'.  Is that anything like Southern Comfort liquor, Lehishy baby?

I had been meditating for 16 years before I found the self.  I had read about Satori but did not believe it would ever happen to me.  No, I was just an adventurer.  I liked the high adventures of transcendental meditation, and I still do. 

But afterwards I realized that all of those adventures had been preparation for Satori.  And that is why I tell people not to place limitations on their meditation.  Let what comes come.  Your inner-self, the self, knows what it is doing in preparing you.

I know also that there is no greater 'mind comfort' than the self.  I know that Gautama Buddha died of food poisioning from historical accounts.  I know also that he did not mind dying because he had the 'mind comfort' of the self.  He did not lose his life, or anything else either.  He never had anything to lose, and he knew it.

"
.........

"
.........

maybe idea  comforts like southern comfort liquor, immortalishy baby  ;)  

yes "after you find yourself you realize that you were looking and did not know it.." is idea...what imagined self was there to find?

buddha "had the mind's comfort of the self" ? ...lehish doesn't know any mind, any self...what are you saying when use word mind, use word self ?

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Reply from IZIZIZ
Sep.19.2008
06:58PM EDT 
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All is mind.

To know this one needs to know mind.

Go beyond the experience of you and your mind.

We know the conscious but dont know it for what it is .

 This is because we dont see the unconscious.

Sit and look at the world and wait until you see what is staring back at you.

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Reply from etcetra
Sep.19.2008
10:09PM EDT 
vertical line What is self, where is it? the only thing "I" notice is that there is something, that witch is listening, that which is seeing..it's where thoughts come from and go.
thinking about your 'self' or ego often causes desires, fear, an illusion that somehow you will become better or worse by something outside of you because nothing changes your perfect nature. Even if one has had some kind of enlightenment experience it still takes a lot of effort to be free from these ego constraint..
Bah.. these are just words.
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Reply from shayne
Sep.19.2008
11:29PM EDT 
Email shayne
vertical line

Self and self?

cmon.

you type words.

your self exists.

the end.

vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 86804
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Reply from lehish
Sep.20.2008
01:11AM EDT 
Email lehish
vertical line

Quote: " ah.. these are just words."
.........

:)

vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 86806
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Reply from lehish
Sep.20.2008
01:13AM EDT 
Email lehish
vertical line Quote: "

Self and self?

cmon.

you type words.

your self exists.

the end.

"
.........

"
.........

typing words is a self ?

vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 86807
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Reply from Bluerose
Sep.20.2008
03:56AM EDT 
vertical line Keep it simple. We are physical and … spiritual (??). For now we live in two worlds. We are permitted to use simple words.
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 86811
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Reply from immortal 1
Sep.20.2008
05:26AM EDT 
vertical line Quote: "Quote: "Quote: "Quote: "

Quote: "A quote comes to mind of some random junky. Upon 'attainment', he said, "no practise was necessary, in every moment I upheld the ancient way".

"
.........

once the mind is " discovered " you realize youve been practicing all along.

but practice we must till this mind is discovered.

mind looks for mind.

"
.........

"
.........

does the idea that there's a mind comfort ?

"
......... I like the idea that after you find yourself you realize that you were looking and did not know it.  I also like the idea of 'mind comfort'.  Is that anything like Southern Comfort liquor, Lehishy baby?

"
......... I like the idea that after you find yourself you realize that you were looking and did not know it.  I also like the idea of 'mind comfort'.  Is that anything like Southern Comfort liquor, Lehishy baby?

I had been meditating for 16 years before I found the self.  I had read about Satori but did not believe it would ever happen to me.  No, I was just an adventurer.  I liked the high adventures of transcendental meditation, and I still do. 

But afterwards I realized that all of those adventures had been preparation for Satori.  And that is why I tell people not to place limitations on their meditation.  Let what comes come.  Your inner-self, the self, knows what it is doing in preparing you.

I know also that there is no greater 'mind comfort' than the self.  I know that Gautama Buddha died of food poisioning from historical accounts.  I know also that he did not mind dying because he had the 'mind comfort' of the self.  He did not lose his life, or anything else either.  He never had anything to lose, and he knew it.

"
.........

"
.........

maybe idea  comforts like southern comfort liquor, immortalishy baby  ;)  

yes "after you find yourself you realize that you were looking and did not know it.." is idea...what imagined self was there to find?

buddha "had the mind's comfort of the self" ? ...lehish doesn't know any mind, any self...what are you saying when use word mind, use word self ?

"
.........

"
.........

To experience 'nothingness', what is there in 'nothingness' to experience 'nothingness'?

For me it is not an idea, it is a memory, of what many others have called 'The Void'.  But of that 'awareness' in 'nothingness', that I call 'the-self' for lack of a better term, since nothing else existed, or ever had, I do not know.  For there is no description or quantification that can even begin to apply, yet I know it intimately as my-self too.  And if 'the-self' is imagined in 'nothingness', then by what?

Considering the memory I have of 'the-self', it is 'my-self' that is imagined by 'the-self', along with everything else in existence, rather than the other way around.

In applicable terms, I am to 'the-self' as Pinnochio was to Geppetto.  And hopefully with me too, as in that story, after my misguided adventures have come to an end, we will live happily ever after.  Or it may just toss me into the fireplace on a cold winter's night.  No matter.

Its hard for people to live with the unknown.  To live with the unknowable is even harder.  But the more you get used to it the better you like it.

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Reply from lehish
Sep.20.2008
08:45AM EDT 
Email lehish
vertical line Quote: "For me it is not an idea, it is a memory, of what many others have called 'The Void'.  But of that 'awareness' in 'nothingness', that I call 'the-self' for lack of a better term, since nothing else existed, or ever had, I do not know.  For there is no description or quantification that can even begin to apply, yet I know it intimately as my-self too.  And if 'the-self' is imagined in 'nothingness', then by what?

Considering the memory I have of 'the-self', it is 'my-self' that is imagined by 'the-self', along with everything else in existence, rather than the other way around.

In applicable terms, I am to 'the-self' as Pinnochio was to Geppetto.  And hopefully with me too, as in that story, after my misguided adventures have come to an end, we will live happily ever after.  Or it may just toss me into the fireplace on a cold winter's night.  No matter.

Its hard for people to live with the unknown.  To live with the unknowable is even harder.  But the more you get used to it the better you like it.

"
.........

you asked "if 'the-self' is imagined in 'nothingness', then by what?" ...then you said "Its hard for people to live with the unknown.  To live with the unknowable is even harder.  But the more you get used to it the better you like it.".... hard harder to what ?   what seems to "get use to" ?

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Reply from lehish
Sep.20.2008
08:53AM EDT 
Email lehish
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Quote: Considering the memory I have of 'the-self', it is 'my-self' that is imagined by 'the-self', along with everything else in existence, rather than the other way around."

..........

are saying there's  a source which imagines ?

what everything else ?

vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 86832
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Reply from etcetra
Sep.20.2008
10:20AM EDT 
vertical line There is something that is imagining the self? What is it that thinks there is you, separate from the experience?
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 86835
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Reply from lehish
Sep.20.2008
02:32PM EDT 
Email lehish
vertical line

Quote: "There is something that is imagining the self? What is it that thinks there is you, separate from the experience?"
.........

wrords "imagined self" isn't suggesting there's any thing (source) which imagines a self

vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 86845
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