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→→→→ vertical line TOPIC: CONFIDANCE IN THE SELF.
vertical line Posted on Sep.18.2008 @ 10:32AM EDT by shayne

confidance in the self is not a bad thing.

call it ego.

for ego is just another thing in the spectrum of wholeness,

NOT to be destroyed.

but embraced.


Go to Latest Reply   Reply to this Topic   Email shayne
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Reply from etcetra
Sep.18.2008
10:45AM EDT 
vertical line I seem to do better when I am either self-less or when I am not thinking about my self/ego in what I am doing. After all it's less baggage to carry in my life.
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 86692
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Reply from shayne
Sep.18.2008
10:46AM EDT 
Email shayne
vertical line

their is no such thing as self-less.

the self exists.

this is BAD zen.

meditate more.

vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 86694
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Reply from shayne
Sep.18.2008
10:49AM EDT 
Email shayne
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did you know in christianity the ego is embraced?

haha.

forget where i read that.

i might be wrong.

vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 86697
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Reply from shayne
Sep.18.2008
11:02AM EDT 
Email shayne
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either way.

the self is part of reality.

vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 86700
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Reply from shayne
Sep.18.2008
11:22AM EDT 
Email shayne
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H6uhbChcXYE&feature=related

everything zen. i dont think so.

vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 86703
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Reply from emancipate
Sep.18.2008
11:56AM EDT 
vertical line Quote: "

did you know in christianity the ego is embraced?

"
.........

Hmmm... should I get the Doritos or the Ruffles? Do I want to go to heaven or hell? Sounds like ego to me. ;)

vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 86708
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Reply from shayne
Sep.18.2008
12:09PM EDT 
Email shayne
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hahahaha....

im not going to either one.

get both bags.

vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 86711
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Reply from etcetra
Sep.18.2008
12:37PM EDT 
vertical line That's funny when I am immersed listening to music or watching movie, or reading books, I forget about myself, it happens from time to time and its a good thing. Where is the Self anyways and what is it anyways? If self is merely a "part" of reality than what is reality outside of the self?
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 86715
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Reply from lehish
Sep.18.2008
01:30PM EDT 
Email lehish
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Quote: "confidance in the self is not a bad thing.

call it ego.

for ego is just another thing in the spectrum of wholeness,

NOT to be destroyed.

but embraced."

........

confidence in 'imagined' ? Imagined 'confidence' ?

vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 86727
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Reply from lehish
Sep.18.2008
01:33PM EDT 
Email lehish
vertical line Quote: "

their is no such thing as self-less.

the self exists.

this is BAD zen.

meditate more.

"
.........

"
.........

what is clinging to imagined-self ?

vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 86728
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Reply from Lynnoh
Sep.18.2008
01:35PM EDT 
Email Lynnoh
vertical line Quote: "Quote: "

their is no such thing as self-less.

the self exists.

this is BAD zen.

meditate more.

"
.........

"
.........

what is clinging to imagined-self ?

"
.........

"
.........

was imagined or just put there?

vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 86729
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Reply from lehish
Sep.18.2008
01:35PM EDT 
Email lehish
vertical line Quote: "

either way.

the self is part of reality.

"
.........

"
.........

what reality is imaigned-self ?

vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 86730
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Reply from etcetra
Sep.18.2008
09:09PM EDT 
vertical line A zen monk that wants to embrace and protect the ego, now that's an innovation.. I guess there is first time for everything. Nothing to embrace or protect, nothing to gain or lose...freedom.
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 86750
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Reply from shayne
Sep.18.2008
09:20PM EDT 
Email shayne
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Quote: "A zen monk that wants to embrace and protect the ego, now that's an innovation.. I guess there is first time for everything. Nothing to embrace or protect, nothing to gain or lose...freedom."
.........

to me......ego is just a word.

it dont mean anything.

but having confidance in ones own self is a good thing.

call it ego.

haha.

vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 86752
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Reply from etcetra
Sep.18.2008
09:33PM EDT 
vertical line for something that doesn't mean anything you sure do like to talk a lot about it!! :)
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Reply from shayne
Sep.18.2008
09:41PM EDT 
Email shayne
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are you the typical zen monk who actually beleives in the ego and attaching yourself from it or what?

ego is a stupid word that should have never been invented.

nothing to detach yourself from.

vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 86754
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Reply from lehish
Sep.19.2008
12:12AM EDT 
Email lehish
vertical line Quote: "are you the typical zen monk who actually beleives in the ego and attaching yourself from it or what?

ego is a stupid word that should have never been invented."

......... 


......... 

but you wrote in the fist post::

"call it ego.

for ego is just another thing in the spectrum of wholeness,

NOT to be destroyed.

but embraced."

vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 86757
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Reply from etcetra
Sep.19.2008
02:23AM EDT 
vertical line wow one moment the ego is something to be embraced, the next moment its a stupid word that should not have been invented.. I don't know what kind of eggo you are having for breakfast, but I sure would like one for myself!! :)
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 86760
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Reply from emancipate
Sep.19.2008
02:34AM EDT 
vertical line Quote: "
.........

what reality is imaigned-self ?

"
.........

Imagined?

Something 'appears'. How is it nothing? ;)

vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 86761
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Reply from emancipate
Sep.19.2008
02:37AM EDT 
vertical line Quote: "I seem to do better when I am either self-less or when I am not thinking about my self/ego in what I am doing. After all it's less baggage to carry in my life."
.........

Hmm: Wikipedia: Flow_(psychology)
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 86762
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Reply from lehish
Sep.19.2008
02:45AM EDT 
Email lehish
vertical line Quote: "Quote: "
.........

what reality is imaigned-self ?

"
.........

Imagined?

Something 'appears'. How is it nothing? ;)

"
.........

are auggesting imagined is something-nothing ? ;)

vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 86763
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Reply from etcetra
Sep.19.2008
03:17AM EDT 
vertical line flow is one word for it I guess. But you don't have to do sports or play an instrument to be like that.. It could be the sunrise in the morning, it could be the flowers, the people you see in your life.In Japanese there is a phrase ????, which (roughly) translates to "No Self" "In a Dream"
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 86767
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Reply from etcetra
Sep.19.2008
03:21AM EDT 
vertical line opps i guess kanji's dont come out right in this forum.. http://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E7%84%A1%E6%88%91 .......http://ja.wiktionary.org/wiki/%E7%84%A1%E6%88%91%E5%A4%A2%E4%B8%AD
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 86768
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Reply from shayne
Sep.19.2008
10:05AM EDT 
Email shayne
vertical line Quote: "Quote: "are you the typical zen monk who actually beleives in the ego and attaching yourself from it or what?

ego is a stupid word that should have never been invented."

......... 


......... 

but you wrote in the fist post::

"call it ego.

for ego is just another thing in the spectrum of wholeness,

NOT to be destroyed.

but embraced."

"
.........

"
.........

im not perfect lehish.

are you?

vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 86785
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Reply from shayne
Sep.19.2008
10:09AM EDT 
Email shayne
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Quote: "That's funny when I am immersed listening to music or watching movie, or reading books, I forget about myself, it happens from time to time and its a good thing. Where is the Self anyways and what is it anyways? If self is merely a "part" of reality than what is reality outside of the self?"
.........

like WHY do you want to forgeot about the self?

vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 86786
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Reply from lehish
Sep.19.2008
02:08PM EDT 
Email lehish
vertical line Quote: "Quote: "Quote: "are you the typical zen monk who actually beleives in the ego and attaching yourself from it or what?

ego is a stupid word that should have never been invented."

......... 


......... 

but you wrote in the fist post::

"call it ego.

for ego is just another thing in the spectrum of wholeness,

NOT to be destroyed.

but embraced."

"
.........

"
.........

im not perfect lehish.

are you?

"
.........

"
.........

asking if  believing "not perfect"perfect ?

vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 86792
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Reply from Mslapik
Sep.19.2008
07:24PM EDT 
Email Mslapik
vertical line What do you mean confidence. If you mean pride, (you feel like you've done something important, feel good about it) that just the myopic discriminating mind. Embracing it is embracing something that will keep you from being happy. (in many situations) Understanding the ego and the duality between good and bad (or lack there of) will make the ego vanish.
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 86796
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Reply from shayne
Sep.19.2008
07:48PM EDT 
Email shayne
vertical line not pride. confidance. the opposite of insecurity.
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 86799
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Reply from etcetra
Sep.19.2008
09:58PM EDT 
vertical line confidence, insecurity, dualities.
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 86801
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Reply from shayne
Sep.19.2008
11:28PM EDT 
Email shayne
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i see the changing in me.. sometimes insecure,,,sometimes overconfidant. i CHOOSE confidance.

The waxing and waning of the polarity opposites is common in people.

yes their opposites.

but duality?

wisdom in insecurity.

the minds eye is free.

and i take CONFIDANCE in it.

vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 86803
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Reply from etcetra
Sep.20.2008
10:22AM EDT 
vertical line to take one or the other, heaven or hell, life and death.. MOOO!!!
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 86836
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Reply from etcetra
Sep.20.2008
10:22AM EDT 
vertical line opps I meant Mu..
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 86837
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Reply from Lynnoh
Sep.22.2008
01:24PM EDT 
Email Lynnoh
vertical line Quote: "Quote: "Quote: "

their is no such thing as self-less.

the self exists.

this is BAD zen.

meditate more.

"
.........

"
.........

what is clinging to imagined-self ?

"
.........

"
.........

was imagined or just put there?

"
.........

"
.........

and so while sitting the little girl and her  mother walked by and she smile at me and said" I got this in school" and she pointed to a sticker on her shirt..and she was beeming with delight happy and I clapped my hands for her and her mother smiled and said "oh your being sillY' and we all smiled. Not in a hundred years would I have taken that sticker away.

vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 86882
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Reply from lehish
Sep.22.2008
09:16PM EDT 
Email lehish
vertical line Quote: "Quote: "Quote: "Quote: "

their is no such thing as self-less.

the self exists.

this is BAD zen.

meditate more.

"
.........

"
.........

what is clinging to imagined-self ?

"
.........

"
.........

was imagined or just put there?

"
.........

"
.........

what are asking ?

vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 86888
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Reply from lehish
Sep.22.2008
10:10PM EDT 
Email lehish
vertical line Quote: "Quote: "Quote: "Quote: "

their is no such thing as self-less.

the self exists.

this is BAD zen.

meditate more.

"
.........

"
.........

what is clinging to imagined-self ?

"
.........

"
.........

was imagined or just put there?

"
.........

"
.........

and so while sitting the little girl and her  mother walked by and she smile at me and said" I got this in school" and she pointed to a sticker on her shirt..and she was beeming with delight happy and I clapped my hands for her and her mother smiled and said "oh your being sillY' and we all smiled. Not in a hundred years would I have taken that sticker away.

"
.........

"
.........

what is "sticker" you would even consider to take away or not ?

vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 86889
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Reply from IZIZIZ
Sep.23.2008
08:00AM EDT 
vertical line

Confidence in the self is an experience.

A lack of confidence in the self is another experience.

Ego is the 'I am'.

'I am' and 'I am not' are the reality of this paradox.

You cant destroy 'I am' no matter how hard you try, because 'I am' is the only one to knoe 'I am not'.

Therefore you have no choice but to ebrace.

That is, if you are user friendly.

vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 86892
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Reply from shayne
Sep.23.2008
09:53AM EDT 
Email shayne
vertical line Quote: "

Confidence in the self is an experience.

A lack of confidence in the self is another experience.

Ego is the 'I am'.

'I am' and 'I am not' are the reality of this paradox.

You cant destroy 'I am' no matter how hard you try, because 'I am' is the only one to knoe 'I am not'.

Therefore you have no choice but to ebrace.

That is, if you are user friendly.

"
.........

"
.........

hmmmmmmmmmmm.....

true.

to me lack of confidance is insecurity. insecurity being the attention wanting a focus and not finding one becomes insecure.

confidance being a mind that DOESNT look for a focus and just abides in and of itself.

kinda like shikantaza.

sitting in and of itself and embracing your already buddha nature.

the shift from one form of experience to the other.

an confidant mind isnt insecure. which means it doesnt go looking for a focal point. or something to believe in or ect, ect.

it means more or less stillness of mind. but not a mind that doesnt go with the flow. like the toa. i mean a mind that doesnt stop anywhere but abides in what it is doing at the moment. while NOT being insecure at the same time.

but heres the truth of the matter. we are always anyway. insecurity is also the great mind. or the everyday mind.

i dont know if ego is the i am........to me ego is the idea of oneself.

which i have an overinflated ego and need to be more humble.

but anyway........embracing is good. see it for what it is.

not destruction.

destroying an aspect of yourself isnt good.

and physcologically speaking.

my shrink would agree.

its not good.

vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 86902
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Reply from shayne
Sep.23.2008
10:00AM EDT 
Email shayne
vertical line

what about martial arts ectera and for another things like gymnastics?

where a strong sense of what the self is doing is needed.

nah.................this self-less stuff is malarky.

again WHY do you wish to get rid of the self?

vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 86903
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Reply from immortal 1
Sep.23.2008
10:37AM EDT 
vertical line Quote: "Quote: "Quote: "

their is no such thing as self-less.

the self exists.

this is BAD zen.

meditate more.

"
.........

"
.........

what is clinging to imagined-self ?

"
.........

"
.........

was imagined or just put there?

"
.........

"
.........

BAD Zen, no busquit for you  !!  BAD Zen !!

vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 86909
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Reply from Lynnoh
Sep.23.2008
12:36PM EDT 
Email Lynnoh
vertical line Quote: "

what about martial arts ectera and for another things like gymnastics?

where a strong sense of what the self is doing is needed.

nah.................this self-less stuff is malarky.

again WHY do you wish to get rid of the self?

"
.........

"
.........

now you are trying to pull our leg

vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 86910
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Reply from Lynnoh
Sep.23.2008
12:36PM EDT 
Email Lynnoh
vertical line Quote: "Quote: "Quote: "Quote: "

their is no such thing as self-less.

the self exists.

this is BAD zen.

meditate more.

"
.........

"
.........

what is clinging to imagined-self ?

"
.........

"
.........

was imagined or just put there?

"
.........

"
.........

BAD Zen, no busquit for you  !!  BAD Zen !!

"
.........

"
.........

:)

vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 86911
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Reply from Lynnoh
Sep.23.2008
12:38PM EDT 
Email Lynnoh
vertical line Quote: "Quote: "Quote: "Quote: "Quote: "

their is no such thing as self-less.

the self exists.

this is BAD zen.

meditate more.

"
.........

"
.........

what is clinging to imagined-self ?

"
.........

"
.........

was imagined or just put there?

"
.........

"
.........

what are asking ?

"
.........

"
.........

no need to ask anything..

vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 86912
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Reply from Lynnoh
Sep.23.2008
12:39PM EDT 
Email Lynnoh
vertical line Quote: "Quote: "Quote: "Quote: "Quote: "

their is no such thing as self-less.

the self exists.

this is BAD zen.

meditate more.

"
.........

"
.........

what is clinging to imagined-self ?

"
.........

"
.........

was imagined or just put there?

"
.........

"
.........

and so while sitting the little girl and her  mother walked by and she smile at me and said" I got this in school" and she pointed to a sticker on her shirt..and she was beeming with delight happy and I clapped my hands for her and her mother smiled and said "oh your being sillY' and we all smiled. Not in a hundred years would I have taken that sticker away.

"
.........

"
.........

what is "sticker" you would even consider to take away or not ?

"
.........

"
.........

not about this..was just a happening, a moment where...???? I don't know..

vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 86913
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Reply from etcetra
Sep.23.2008
10:29PM EDT 
vertical line An archer who shoots for the prize misses the mark. If an athelete or musician or actor is truly immersed in what they are doing, they are probably not even thinking about confidence or fear, well if they are, their mind is not focused.
I don't know why you are so attached to the word "confidence", a word which implies duality.
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 86922
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Reply from etcetra
Sep.23.2008
10:35PM EDT 
vertical line "The mind must always be in the state of 'flowing,' for when it stops anywhere that means the flow is interrupted and it is this interruption that is injurious to the well-being of the mind. In the case of the swordsman, it means death. When the swordsman stands against his opponent, he is not to think of the opponent, nor of himself, nor of his enemy's sword movements. He just stands there with his sword which, forgetful of all technique, is ready only to follow the dictates of the subconscious. The man has effaced himself as the wielder of the sword. When he strikes, it is not the man but the sword in the hand of the man's subconscious that strikes."
"you've got to learn your instrument. Then, you practice, practice, practice. And then, when you finally get up there on the bandstand, forget all that and just wail." ~Charlie Parker~
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 86924
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Reply from shayne
Sep.23.2008
11:07PM EDT 
Email shayne
vertical line

Quote: "An archer who shoots for the prize misses the mark. If an athelete or musician or actor is truly immersed in what they are doing, they are probably not even thinking about confidence or fear, well if they are, their mind is not focused.
I don't know why you are so attached to the word "confidence", a word which implies duality.
"
.........

i just take confidance in my own mind. focus is the key.

vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 86927
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Reply from shayne
Sep.23.2008
11:10PM EDT 
Email shayne
vertical line

Quote: ""The mind must always be in the state of 'flowing,' for when it stops anywhere that means the flow is interrupted and it is this interruption that is injurious to the well-being of the mind. In the case of the swordsman, it means death. When the swordsman stands against his opponent, he is not to think of the opponent, nor of himself, nor of his enemy's sword movements. He just stands there with his sword which, forgetful of all technique, is ready only to follow the dictates of the subconscious. The man has effaced himself as the wielder of the sword. When he strikes, it is not the man but the sword in the hand of the man's subconscious that strikes."
"you've got to learn your instrument. Then, you practice, practice, practice. And then, when you finally get up there on the bandstand, forget all that and just wail." ~Charlie Parker~
"
.........

the mind must always be in a state of flowing.....which implies non fixating. i agree. and to stand in a state of shinkantaza is good for the swordsmen.

vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 86928
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Reply from shayne
Sep.23.2008
11:13PM EDT 
Email shayne
vertical line

better then insecurity which is prevalent in me.

i just CHOOSE to be confidant.

not overconfidant.

just confidant.

vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 86929
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Reply from etcetra
Sep.23.2008
11:38PM EDT 
vertical line I just sit.
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 86931
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Reply from lehish
Sep.24.2008
12:21AM EDT 
Email lehish
vertical line Quote: "Quote: "Quote: "Quote: "Quote: "Quote: "

their is no such thing as self-less.

the self exists.

this is BAD zen.

meditate more.

"
.........

"
.........

what is clinging to imagined-self ?

"
.........

"
.........

was imagined or just put there?

"
.........

"
.........

what are asking ?

"
.........

"
.........

no need to ask anything..

"
.........

"
.........

there wasn't suggesting there was a need to ask

vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 86932
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Reply from lehish
Sep.24.2008
12:26AM EDT 
Email lehish
vertical line Quote: "Quote: "Quote: "Quote: "Quote: "Quote: "

their is no such thing as self-less.

the self exists.

this is BAD zen.

meditate more.

"
.........

"
.........

what is clinging to imagined-self ?

"
.........

"
.........

was imagined or just put there?

"
.........

"
.........

and so while sitting the little girl and her  mother walked by and she smile at me and said" I got this in school" and she pointed to a sticker on her shirt..and she was beeming with delight happy and I clapped my hands for her and her mother smiled and said "oh your being sillY' and we all smiled. Not in a hundred years would I have taken that sticker away.

"
.........

"
.........

what is "sticker" you would even consider to take away or not ?

"
.........

"
.........

not about this..was just a happening, a moment where...???? I don't know..

"
.........

"
.........

what "sticker" ?

vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 86933
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Reply from etcetra
Sep.24.2008
01:23PM EDT 
vertical line When you practice martial arts, you practice martial arts, when you practice anything you just practice, you do what it takes to do what is necessary.. when is confidence necessary if you are just doing, just practicing? Confidence you can lose, insecurity may arise, isn't the point to be not affected by either?
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 86945
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Reply from Lynnoh
Sep.24.2008
01:29PM EDT 
Email Lynnoh
vertical line Quote: "Quote: "Quote: "Quote: "Quote: "Quote: "Quote: "

their is no such thing as self-less.

the self exists.

this is BAD zen.

meditate more.

"
.........

"
.........

what is clinging to imagined-self ?

"
.........

"
.........

was imagined or just put there?

"
.........

"
.........

what are asking ?

"
.........

"
.........

no need to ask anything..

"
.........

"
.........

there wasn't suggesting there was a need to ask

"
.........

"
.........

yes, I know

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Reply from Lynnoh
Sep.24.2008
01:33PM EDT 
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Quote: "When you practice martial arts, you practice martial arts, when you practice anything you just practice, you do what it takes to do what is necessary.. when is confidence necessary if you are just doing, just practicing? Confidence you can lose, insecurity may arise, isn't the point to be not affected by either?"
.........

but doesn't confidence and insecurity "suggest" affecting? not affectting to be affected is as if and apart from not as..so your right! not to be affected by either... well what do ya know they are the word we put on top of it.. so we can discuss and..hmmm you can call me "Bob"

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Reply from etcetra
Sep.24.2008
02:59PM EDT 
vertical line I like what my teacher once said.. "confidence, why do you want to pump air into your head??"
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Reply from emancipate
Sep.25.2008
05:51AM EDT 
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are auggesting imagined is something-nothing ? ;)

"
.........

What else could I ever suggest?

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Reply from shayne
Sep.25.2008
11:02AM EDT 
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im confidant in my insecurity.

hahaahha.

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Reply from lehish
Sep.25.2008
05:17PM EDT 
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vertical line Quote: "Quote: "

are auggesting imagined is something-nothing ? ;)

"
.........

What else could I ever suggest?

"
.........

"
.........

What else could I ever suggest?

"
.........

hehe

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Reply from lehish
Sep.25.2008
05:17PM EDT 
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vertical line Quote: "

im confidant in my insecurity.

hahaahha.

"
.........

"
.........

lol

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Reply from immortal 1
Sep.26.2008
08:55AM EDT 
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Please look up in the Dictionary the difference between Egoism and Egotism.

They are not the same thing.  One is a philosophy, the other is a personal trait.

Egoism is the person's use of the ego.

Egotism is the ego's use of the person.

I don't really have any ambition anymore, but if I did I would need ego to accomplish just about anything.   The difference is to know the difference, so that you use your ego rather than the other way around.

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Reply from shayne
Sep.26.2008
09:21AM EDT 
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confidance is a empty attribute.

when one is not insecure they are confidant.

it is much like the empty attribute of patience.

when ones mind isnt in in hurry for things now then you have patience.

as empty attributes they dont really exist.

their thats enoufe on this topic.

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Reply from shayne
Sep.26.2008
10:39AM EDT 
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some people are egotastical.

which means they have a BIG ego about themselves.

they dont see the fact all men and woman are created equal save that which stands in the way. the mind.

yabba dabbda do......make a monkey out of you.

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