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  One day, a monk traveled into the mountain where Gensha Shibi resided
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→→→→ vertical line TOPIC: ZAZEN AND
vertical line Posted on Oct.07.2008 @ 06:22PM EDT by reverb
Hi There,

I have been practicing daily Zazen for a couple of months now and have recently started to experience very vivid and lucid dreams at night while I sleep, just wondered if anyone else has experienced anything similar?

The dreams are very active and contain a lot of information and content, sometimes incorporating events or people from my past. One particular dream was so lucid that when I woke up it took me a few seconds to decide whether I was still dreaming or not!

Thanks

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Reply from reverb
Oct.07.2008
06:24PM EDT 
vertical line Apologies for the cut off subject line, it should read "Zazen and Dreaming" - I can't find anywhere to edit the original post!
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 87585
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Reply from 9999999
Oct.07.2008
07:13PM EDT 
Email 9999999
vertical line There is a box that believes it owns the empty space it encloses,
and that the nothingness therein is in its possession.
~jan cox
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 87586
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Reply from shayne
Oct.07.2008
08:53PM EDT 
Email shayne
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i personally have very lucid dreams.

and have had a hard time decipering wether true or false.

now i can.

vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 87589
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Reply from Woodsman
Oct.07.2008
10:42PM EDT 
Email Woodsman
vertical line life itself is a dream, and Shayne is a dreamer, like me. this post is a dream
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 87600
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Reply from lehish
Oct.08.2008
02:50AM EDT 
Email lehish
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Quote: "There is a box that believes it owns the empty space it encloses,
and that the nothingness therein is in its possession.
~jan cox
"
.........

dreaming there's 'a box that encloses empty space' ;)

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Reply from 9999999
Oct.08.2008
04:38AM EDT 
Email 9999999
vertical line Quote: "

Quote: "There is a box that believes it owns the empty space it encloses,
and that the nothingness therein is in its possession.
~jan cox
"
.........


dreaming there's 'a box that encloses empty space' ;)

"
.........


yes LOL
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 87610
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Reply from reverb
Oct.08.2008
05:33AM EDT 
vertical line Is it something that can result from regular zazen practice? or just a coincidence...
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 87612
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Reply from 9999999
Oct.08.2008
05:58AM EDT 
Email 9999999
vertical line zazen yields no results
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 87613
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Reply from Woodsman
Oct.08.2008
09:05AM EDT 
Email Woodsman
vertical line If you can accept yourself, you can accept everything, in any realm. But dreams are not something within our control, so they teach us to allow life to exist, where we formerly felt there was none. Also, dreams teach us of other realms, as how they relate to this great gift of being human. Our third eye begins to open, and we begin to see within the delusion of what we live for, the values of self-satisfaction attached to a fleeting image of glory that solidifies into a concept of a fixed and solid self; sensations become heightened. Dreams, zazen take us to the edge of our attachments, and then the awakened state begins to manifest outwardly, in all things material, as the balancing begins on all other levels.
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 87615
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Reply from so_teh
Oct.08.2008
09:57AM EDT 
Email so_teh
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the method of no method is where meditation practice sits otherwise find a koan to get an idol result 

try active visualizations instead of dreaming. dreaming is a rough thing to start with i've learnt. just be lucid in your meditation, let thoughts arise and go...

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Reply from Woodsman
Oct.08.2008
10:06AM EDT 
Email Woodsman
vertical line just make art, begin with a sketch pad, actively engage the creative in you, and open every door through open eyes.

meditative tasks turn a simple gesture into an art... like tea making. which I have here right now, i'm waitin' ta see if it's going to rain more before i start carvin' more staffs.

I am, an art addict. Woohoo!!
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Reply from boopoom
Oct.08.2008
10:25AM EDT 
Email boopoom
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"If you can accept yourself, you can accept everything, in any realm. But dreams are not something within our control, so they teach us to allow life to exist, where we formerly felt there was none. Also, dreams teach us of other realms, as how they relate to this great gift of being human. Our third eye begins to open, and we begin to see within the delusion of what we live for, the values of self-satisfaction attached to a fleeting image of glory that solidifies into a concept of a fixed and solid self; sensations become heightened. Dreams, zazen take us to the edge of our attachments, and then the awakened state begins to manifest outwardly, in all things material, as the balancing begins on all other levels."

 

impressive.....

:)never thought that i am going see your craft soon,  its stunning...

love,boopoom

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Reply from raeej91
Oct.08.2008
03:25PM EDT 
vertical line

Me too!  Yesterday I had a dream that felt really real!  At the end of my dream I was climbing up a ladder like 10,000 feet high and I am really scared of heights!  I felt like I was going to fall and die.

But the strange thing was was that before I slept I did a pretty good zazen.  I was trying very hard and seriously to follow my breathing and I felt very strong while I was doing it.  I remember I thought "Hey!  Aren't I supposed to be bored by now?"

So maybe you're zazen is going pretty well.

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Reply from Woodsman
Oct.08.2008
03:57PM EDT 
Email Woodsman
vertical line One learns to accept the positive in all things, as being the price of freedom, to dream big.
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 87643
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Reply from reverb
Oct.08.2008
05:13PM EDT 
vertical line Quote: "If you can accept yourself, you can accept everything, in any realm. But dreams are not something within our control, so they teach us to allow life to exist, where we formerly felt there was none. Also, dreams teach us of other realms, as how they relate to this great gift of being human. Our third eye begins to open, and we begin to see within the delusion of what we live for, the values of self-satisfaction attached to a fleeting image of glory that solidifies into a concept of a fixed and solid self; sensations become heightened. Dreams, zazen take us to the edge of our attachments, and then the awakened state begins to manifest outwardly, in all things material, as the balancing begins on all other levels. "
.........

Thanks that was really interesting....
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 87648
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Reply from reverb
Oct.08.2008
05:17PM EDT 
vertical line Quote: "

Me too!  Yesterday I had a dream that felt really real!  At the end of my dream I was climbing up a ladder like 10,000 feet high and I am really scared of heights!  I felt like I was going to fall and die.

But the strange thing was was that before I slept I did a pretty good zazen.  I was trying very hard and seriously to follow my breathing and I felt very strong while I was doing it.  I remember I thought "Hey!  Aren't I supposed to be bored by now?"

So maybe you're zazen is going pretty well.

"
.........

I have found that zazen seems to bring a certain clarity, while doing zazen I don't get any particular sense of anything "happening or working" so to speak but through out my day my thoughts seem a lot clearer. I have a creative job and creativity seems to come a lot faster, I find that things that would have bugged the hell out of me before don't seem worth worrying about, I guess it's like an overall clarity.

The vivid dreams freaked me out a bit at first but I am just trying to go with it and not over-analyse anything at this stage.

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Reply from lehish
Oct.08.2008
06:42PM EDT 
Email lehish
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Quote: "If you can accept yourself, you can accept everything, in any realm. But dreams are not something within our control, so they teach us to allow life to exist, where we formerly felt there was none. Also, dreams teach us of other realms, as how they relate to this great gift of being human. Our third eye begins to open, and we begin to see within the delusion of what we live for, the values of self-satisfaction attached to a fleeting image of glory that solidifies into a concept of a fixed and solid self; sensations become heightened. Dreams, zazen take us to the edge of our attachments, and then the awakened state begins to manifest outwardly, in all things material, as the balancing begins on all other levels. "
.........

'becoming' is an 'idea' there's a from here to here as if 'time'

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Reply from shayne
Oct.08.2008
08:28PM EDT 
Email shayne
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their is no time except for now.

and your right.

this holy life is meant to be lived. not to become.

even holy is well.........you get my drift.

vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 87653
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Reply from Woodsman
Oct.08.2008
08:36PM EDT 
Email Woodsman
vertical line Quote: "

Quote: "If you can accept yourself, you can accept everything, in any realm. But dreams are not something within our control, so they teach us to allow life to exist, where we formerly felt there was none. Also, dreams teach us of other realms, as how they relate to this great gift of being human. Our third eye begins to open, and we begin to see within the delusion of what we live for, the values of self-satisfaction attached to a fleeting image of glory that solidifies into a concept of a fixed and solid self; sensations become heightened. Dreams, zazen take us to the edge of our attachments, and then the awakened state begins to manifest outwardly, in all things material, as the balancing begins on all other levels. "
.........

'becoming' is an 'idea' there's a from here to here as if 'time'

"
.........

could be, if you focus on the negative
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Reply from Woodsman
Oct.08.2008
08:40PM EDT 
Email Woodsman
vertical line Quote: "

their is no time except for now.

and your right.

this holy life is meant to be lived. not to become.

even holy is well.........you get my drift.

"
.........

the fact is, we have created time as a means of organization

you can argue the truth or falseness of anything conceptual, but in the end, work still starts at 1900 for me, believe it or not
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 87655
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Reply from shayne
Oct.08.2008
08:47PM EDT 
Email shayne
vertical line Quote: "Quote: "

their is no time except for now.

and your right.

this holy life is meant to be lived. not to become.

even holy is well.........you get my drift.

"
.........

the fact is, we have created time as a means of organization

you can argue the truth or falseness of anything conceptual, but in the end, work still starts at 1900 for me, believe it or not
"
.........

"
.........

the fact is, we have created time as a means of organization

you can argue the truth or falseness of anything conceptual, but in the end, work still starts at 1900 for me, believe it or not
"
.........

actually anything conceptual is KNOWN to orgionate in the self.

vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 87657
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Reply from Woodsman
Oct.08.2008
08:51PM EDT 
Email Woodsman
vertical line You have a concept of the Self Shayne? Compared to the ego self, I mean.
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 87659
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Reply from shayne
Oct.08.2008
08:55PM EDT 
Email shayne
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Quote: "You have a concept of the Self Shayne? Compared to the ego self, I mean. "
.........

not really im everchaning. even my bi polar condition waxes and wanes for me. sometimes im sane. especially when i look at the big picture of it all.

vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 87660
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Reply from Woodsman
Oct.08.2008
11:17PM EDT 
Email Woodsman
vertical line It's good. Just rest Shayne : )
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 87669
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Reply from lehish
Oct.08.2008
11:20PM EDT 
Email lehish
vertical line Quote: "Quote: "

Quote: "If you can accept yourself, you can accept everything, in any realm. But dreams are not something within our control, so they teach us to allow life to exist, where we formerly felt there was none. Also, dreams teach us of other realms, as how they relate to this great gift of being human. Our third eye begins to open, and we begin to see within the delusion of what we live for, the values of self-satisfaction attached to a fleeting image of glory that solidifies into a concept of a fixed and solid self; sensations become heightened. Dreams, zazen take us to the edge of our attachments, and then the awakened state begins to manifest outwardly, in all things material, as the balancing begins on all other levels. "
.........

'becoming' is an 'idea' there's a from here to here as if 'time'

"
.........

could be, if you focus on the negative
"
.........

"
.........

could be, if you focus on the negative
"
.........

what negative-positive ?

vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 87670
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Reply from lehish
Oct.08.2008
11:27PM EDT 
Email lehish
vertical line Quote: "

their is no time except for now.

and your right.

this holy life is meant to be lived. not to become.

even holy is well.........you get my drift.

"
.........

"
.........

yes time is as though is onlly if are thinking

yep w o r d s

vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 87671
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Reply from lehish
Oct.08.2008
11:29PM EDT 
Email lehish
vertical line Quote: "Quote: "

their is no time except for now.

and your right.

this holy life is meant to be lived. not to become.

even holy is well.........you get my drift.

"
.........

the fact is, we have created time as a means of organization

you can argue the truth or falseness of anything conceptual, but in the end, work still starts at 1900 for me, believe it or not
"
.........

"
.........

the fact is, we have created time as a means of organization

you can argue the truth or falseness of anything conceptual, but in the end, work still starts at 1900 for me, believe it or not
"
.........

a number isn't as though proof

vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 87672
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Reply from Woodsman
Oct.09.2008
12:13AM EDT 
Email Woodsman
vertical line Quote: "Quote: "Quote: "

Quote: "If you can accept yourself, you can accept everything, in any realm. But dreams are not something within our control, so they teach us to allow life to exist, where we formerly felt there was none. Also, dreams teach us of other realms, as how they relate to this great gift of being human. Our third eye begins to open, and we begin to see within the delusion of what we live for, the values of self-satisfaction attached to a fleeting image of glory that solidifies into a concept of a fixed and solid self; sensations become heightened. Dreams, zazen take us to the edge of our attachments, and then the awakened state begins to manifest outwardly, in all things material, as the balancing begins on all other levels. "
.........

'becoming' is an 'idea' there's a from here to here as if 'time'

"
.........

could be, if you focus on the negative
"
.........

"
.........

could be, if you focus on the negative
"
.........

what negative-positive ?

"
.........

mine and yours, equally so

vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 87673
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Reply from Woodsman
Oct.09.2008
12:14AM EDT 
Email Woodsman
vertical line Quote: "Quote: "Quote: "

their is no time except for now.

and your right.

this holy life is meant to be lived. not to become.

even holy is well.........you get my drift.

"
.........

the fact is, we have created time as a means of organization

you can argue the truth or falseness of anything conceptual, but in the end, work still starts at 1900 for me, believe it or not
"
.........

"
.........

the fact is, we have created time as a means of organization

you can argue the truth or falseness of anything conceptual, but in the end, work still starts at 1900 for me, believe it or not
"
.........

a number isn't as though proof

"
.........

just look at the clock for some
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 87674
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Reply from lehish
Oct.09.2008
12:55AM EDT 
Email lehish
vertical line clock-number isn't proof
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 87679
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Reply from Woodsman
Oct.09.2008
01:07AM EDT 
Email Woodsman
vertical line if i go to sleep soon it woulda been.
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 87681
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Reply from lehish
Oct.09.2008
02:58AM EDT 
Email lehish
vertical line

Quote: "if i go to sleep soon it woulda been. "
.........

then don't sleep ;)

vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 87689
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