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  The exquisite Shunkai whose other name was Suzu was compelled to marry against her wishes when she was quite young. Later, after this marriage had ended, she attended the university, where she studied philosophy. To see Shunkai was to fall... continue...

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→→→→ vertical line TOPIC: CONCENTRATION....
vertical line Posted on Nov.03.2008 @ 09:46AM EDT by ZenNoob
Hello All,
I've been sitting and using various websites for about 5 months now.  I am progressing in practice with Zazen nicely.  I was wondering if anyone uses additional techniques (other than the usual counting breaths and following breathing) to help concentrate and prevent monkey-mind.

Thanks,
Joe

Go to Latest Reply    Email ZenNoob
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Reply from Woodsman
Nov.03.2008
10:21AM EDT 
Email Woodsman
vertical line I live in the woods. And talk to the trees, but more importantly, listen.
vertical line Topic closed! 89004
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Reply from zen-zen
Nov.03.2008
02:10PM EDT 
vertical line Try the same practice with your eyes open.
vertical line Topic closed! 89005
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Reply from IZIZIZ
Nov.03.2008
02:20PM EDT 
vertical line Invite monkey mind to join you.
vertical line Topic closed! 89007
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Reply from 9999999
Nov.03.2008
02:29PM EDT 
Email 9999999
vertical line man handle those monkeys!
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Reply from ______
Nov.03.2008
02:40PM EDT 
vertical line Monkey was a BASKETCASE. 
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Reply from ______
Nov.03.2008
02:42PM EDT 
vertical line Consternation. 
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Reply from 9999999
Nov.03.2008
04:15PM EDT 
Email 9999999
vertical line soooomee wheeeere

oover the raaaainbow
vertical line Topic closed! 89020
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Reply from 9999999
Nov.03.2008
04:15PM EDT 
Email 9999999
vertical line oooooOOOOOOOOoooooooo
vertical line Topic closed! 89021
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Reply from noumenal
Nov.03.2008
05:54PM EDT 
Email noumenal
vertical line

Progress is an illusion. You can't go anywhere or time. You're already here now.

There isn't anywhere else.

vertical line Topic closed! 89022
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Reply from shayne
Nov.03.2008
07:11PM EDT 
Email shayne
vertical line

actually how is progress a illusion?

for the beginner it isnt.

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Reply from shayne
Nov.03.2008
07:14PM EDT 
Email shayne
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practice shizantaza if you desire joe.

this is sitting with nothing in mind and focusing on nothing.

just the attention and sitting.

its best for the beginner to practice a koan or meditate on the breath though.

monkey mind is mind btw.

it is an inseucre mind looking for a fixation.

same thing.

thats it.

take care.

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Reply from emancipate
Nov.03.2008
08:07PM EDT 
vertical line Having a fixation, looking for a fix.
vertical line Topic closed! 89026
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Reply from ______
Nov.04.2008
06:45AM EDT 
vertical line Painful?  Did you find it?  Did you own it?
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Reply from IZIZIZ
Nov.04.2008
06:46AM EDT 
vertical line

Quote: "Invite monkey mind to join you."
.........

Try this.

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Reply from ______
Nov.04.2008
06:52AM EDT 
vertical line You try it first then let me know if you notice any difference. 
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Reply from zen-zen
Nov.04.2008
08:28AM EDT 
vertical line Yes, try the monkey mind next.
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Reply from ______
Nov.04.2008
10:26AM EDT 
vertical line Then what?
vertical line Topic closed! 89052
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Reply from 9999999
Nov.04.2008
02:42PM EDT 
Email 9999999
vertical line it can be hard to get off this merry-go-round once you land on it
it will never stop
and you can't ever get off
you might get so dizzy you stumble off or get thrown off >:D
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Reply from zen-zen
Nov.05.2008
02:51AM EDT 
vertical line "then what?"

After sitting in one posture for long enough he gets up and goes to cook food, eat, drink and goes to sleep. Then that.
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Reply from emancipate
Nov.05.2008
05:39AM EDT 
vertical line Quote: "it will never stop"
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Reply from zen-zen
Nov.05.2008
07:17AM EDT 
vertical line Repeat until death occurs.

No guarantee, refunds or promise of rebirth.
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Reply from ______
Nov.05.2008
07:21AM EDT 
vertical line I'm just glad I haven't got a clue. 

Invite monkey mind to join you>
Try monkey mind next>
Then what>
Eat drink sleep>
play with yourself>
blah de blah de blah de blagger?  
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Reply from zen-zen
Nov.05.2008
02:41PM EDT 
vertical line Yes yes, eat, drink, sleep, play. Good practice!
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Reply from ZenNoob
Nov.05.2008
07:27PM EDT 
Email ZenNoob
vertical line Thanks for the replies...I do practice with my eyes open, and this is better than when I first started with them shut.   What I get from most responses is not to take it too seriously.  I dunno, it could be that.  I usually find with Zen I am backwards...but so are all of you!

Thanks again,
Joe
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Reply from shayne
Nov.05.2008
07:29PM EDT 
Email shayne
vertical line your welcome sir.
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Reply from noumenal
Nov.05.2008
09:12PM EDT 
Email noumenal
vertical line Ok, for the beginner it isn't. So, find out the indentity of the beginner and drop it.
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Reply from noumenal
Nov.05.2008
09:14PM EDT 
Email noumenal
vertical line Quote: "

actually how is progress a illusion?

for the beginner it isnt.

"
......... Ok. For the beginner it isn't. So, find out the beginner's identity and drop it.
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Reply from noumenal
Nov.05.2008
09:33PM EDT 
Email noumenal
vertical line Quote: "

actually how is progress a illusion?

for the beginner it isnt.

"
......... All self-identification, whether "beginner" "master" or whatever, is false. A self-identity can "make progress". But you cannot.
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Reply from shayne
Nov.05.2008
10:00PM EDT 
Email shayne
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self identity?

haha.

my self wants to know what in blue blazes are you talking about?

are you attempting to say the ego?

the image of ourselves?

all i know is i am not near as nervous,,,,anxious and insecure as i once was.

this toke progress.

think again.

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Reply from IZIZIZ
Nov.06.2008
04:53AM EDT 
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Did you invite monkey mind or not yet?

Please advise Joe.

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Reply from emancipate
Nov.06.2008
05:05AM EDT 
vertical line Self-identity is to be found on days divisible by at least one prime number since the birth of Ötzi.
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Reply from zen-zen
Nov.06.2008
05:15AM EDT 
vertical line I've been wondering why one has to sit in order to be able to practice. Eventually one has to get up anyway.
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Reply from noumenal
Nov.06.2008
05:30AM EDT 
Email noumenal
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All self-identity is false. "Beginner", "master" or anything else.

No separate entity can make progress because no separate entity exists.

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Reply from emancipate
Nov.06.2008
05:40AM EDT 
vertical line Quote: "

All self-identity is false. "Beginner", "master" or anything else.

No separate entity can make progress because no separate entity exists.

"
.........

Did you intend to type that? Because something sounds odd about it.

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Reply from noumenal
Nov.06.2008
05:46AM EDT 
Email noumenal
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Progress is in time. Self-identity creates time. No self-identity, no time, no progress. Got it?

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Reply from emancipate
Nov.06.2008
05:50AM EDT 
vertical line Quote: "

Progress is in time. Self-identity creates time. No self-identity, no time, no progress. Got it?

"
.........

Yay, word games... how fun! Here's one:

Money is the root of all evil.
Time is money.
Time is the root of all evil.

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Reply from noumenal
Nov.06.2008
05:57AM EDT 
Email noumenal
vertical line

Okay, you didn't get it. Sorry. I have no interest in playing word games.

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Reply from emancipate
Nov.06.2008
06:06AM EDT 
vertical line Quote: "

Progress is in time. Self-identity creates time. No self-identity, no time, no progress. Got it?

"
.........

To put things in your terms...

Change is in time. Why are you calling it progress?

I'd like to see "self-identity" (or any other word-phrase) create anything. If self-identity creates time, what creates self-identity?

"No self-identity"? What are you talking about? Do you suppose memories can be erased consciously?

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Reply from noumenal
Nov.06.2008
06:33AM EDT 
Email noumenal
vertical line Quote: "Quote: "

Progress is in time. Self-identity creates time. No self-identity, no time, no progress. Got it?

"
.........

To put things in your terms...

Change is in time. Why are you calling it progress?

I'd like to see "self-identity" (or any other word-phrase) create anything. If self-identity creates time, what creates self-identity?

"No self-identity"? What are you talking about? Do you suppose memories can be erased consciously?

"
......... We speak different languages. Gradually we might come together. Progress implies time. Agreed? It takes time to make progress. So, outside of time there is no such thing as progress. That's one thing. Another thing - normal consciousness is a duality of subject and object. The subject, self-identity, creates time in that its objects, the phenomenal world we usually call "reality", is temporal. That's its structure. Before the subject/object consciousness, there is no time. Have to stop for now before my 20 minutes is up. 
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Reply from emancipate
Nov.06.2008
07:14AM EDT 
vertical line Quote:
"
......... We speak different languages. Gradually we might come together. Progress implies time. Agreed? It takes time to make progress. So, outside of time there is no such thing as progress. That's one thing. Another thing - normal consciousness is a duality of subject and object. The subject, self-identity, creates time in that its objects, the phenomenal world we usually call "reality", is temporal. That's its structure. Before the subject/object consciousness, there is no time. Have to stop for now before my 20 minutes is up. 
"
.........

Nothing implies anything. For all you know, the universe could've been created in its current state this very moment.

Normal consciousness? Try: the only possible consciousness. "In consciousness, the representation is distinguished from subject and object and related to both". Without and observer and the observed, there is nothing.

What you are looking for is death.

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Reply from ______
Nov.06.2008
08:09AM EDT 
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The universe is created in its current state this very moment.  That's for all the knowers and would-be knowers somewhere out there. 
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Reply from ______
Nov.06.2008
08:35AM EDT 
vertical line The universe is created in its current state this very moment.  That's for all the knowers and would-be knowers somewhere out there. 
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Reply from ______
Nov.06.2008
08:35AM EDT 
vertical line The universe is created in its current state this very moment.  That's for all the knowers and would-be knowers somewhere out there. 
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Reply from ______
Nov.06.2008
08:36AM EDT 
vertical line The universe is created in its current state this very moment.  That's for all the knowers and would-be knowers somewhere out there. 
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Reply from ______
Nov.06.2008
08:37AM EDT 
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The universe is created in its current state this very moment.  That's for all the knowers and would-be knowers somewhere out there. 

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Reply from ______
Nov.06.2008
08:38AM EDT 
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The universe is created in its current state this very moment.  That's for all the knowers and would-be knowers somewhere out there. 

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Reply from ______
Nov.06.2008
08:39AM EDT 
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The universe is created in its current state this very moment.  That's for all the knowers and would-be knowers somewhere out there. 

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Reply from ______
Nov.06.2008
08:40AM EDT 
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The universe is created in its current state this very moment.  That's for all the knowers and would-be knowers somewhere out there. 

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Reply from ______
Nov.06.2008
08:45AM EDT 
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<font color=blue>

The universe is created in its current state this very moment.  That's for all the knowers and would-be knowers somewhere out there.</font>

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Reply from ______
Nov.06.2008
08:47AM EDT 
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The universe is created in its current state this very moment.  That's for all the knowers and would-be knowers somewhere out there.

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Reply from ______
Nov.06.2008
08:55AM EDT 
vertical line » topic list   » start a new topic   » zenguide.com chat   » view topic The universe is created in its current state this very moment.  That's for all the knowers and would-be knowers somewhere out there.   » post reply
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Reply from ______
Nov.06.2008
08:57AM EDT 
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DO NOT use The universe is created in its current state this very moment.    » view topic   » view topic  
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Reply from ______
Nov.06.2008
08:59AM EDT 
vertical line Session Timer:The universe is created in its current state this very moment. 
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Reply from ______
Nov.06.2008
09:01AM EDT 
vertical line * Message  The universe is created in its current state this very moment. 
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Reply from ______
Nov.06.2008
09:03AM EDT 
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If your browser is supported, you should see a Rich Text editor that allows for you to compose The universe is created in its current state this very moment. 

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Reply from ZenNoob
Nov.06.2008
09:04AM EDT 
Email ZenNoob
vertical line Yes, I invited monkey-mind.  I think the idea was not to concentrate on any one thing ( like breathing--I can become preoccupied with it, too).  It did work in a sense.  Thanks Much!
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Reply from ______
Nov.06.2008
09:06AM EDT 
vertical line  If you experience difficulties with this format 

The universe is created in its current state this very moment. 

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Reply from ______
Nov.06.2008
09:08AM EDT 
vertical line Quote: "Yes, I invited monkey-mind.  I think the idea was not to concentrate on any one thing ( like breathing--I can become preoccupied with it, too).  It did work in a sense.  Thanks Much!"
.........

Hello.
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Reply from ______
Nov.06.2008
09:40AM EDT 
vertical line

bye

Happening - now. 


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Reply from Lynnoh
Nov.06.2008
12:04PM EDT 
Email Lynnoh
vertical line green
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Reply from Lynnoh
Nov.06.2008
12:05PM EDT 
Email Lynnoh
vertical line "warning page has expired"
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Reply from Lynnoh
Nov.06.2008
12:06PM EDT 
Email Lynnoh
vertical line Quote: "Quote: "Quote: "

Progress is in time. Self-identity creates time. No self-identity, no time, no progress. Got it?

"
.........

To put things in your terms...

Change is in time. Why are you calling it progress?

I&apos;d like to see "self-identity" (or any other word-phrase) create anything. If self-identity creates time, what creates self-identity?

"No self-identity"? What are you talking about? Do you suppose memories can be erased consciously?

"
......... We speak different languages. Gradually we might come together. Progress implies time. Agreed? It takes time to make progress. So, outside of time there is no such thing as progress. That&apos;s one thing. Another thing - normal consciousness is a duality of subject and object. The subject, self-identity, creates time in that its objects, the phenomenal world we usually call "reality", is temporal. That&apos;s its structure. Before the subject/object consciousness, there is no time. Have to stop for now before my 20 minutes is up. "
.........

"
.........

To put things in your terms...

Change is in time. Why are you calling it progress?

I&apos;d like to see "self-identity" (or any other word-phrase) create anything. If self-identity creates time, what creates self-identity?

"No self-identity"? What are you talking about? Do you suppose memories can be erased consciously?

"
......... We speak different languages. Gradually we might come together. Progress implies time. Agreed? It takes time to make progress. So, outside of time there is no such thing as progress. That&apos;s one thing. Another thing - normal consciousness is a duality of subject and object. The subject, self-identity, creates time in that its objects, the phenomenal world we usually call "reality", is temporal. That&apos;s its structure. Before the subject/object consciousness, there is no time. Have to stop for now before my 20 minutes is up. 
"
.........

hahahaha

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Reply from Lynnoh
Nov.06.2008
01:15PM EDT 
Email Lynnoh
vertical line

without glasses

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Reply from lehish
Nov.06.2008
04:13PM EDT 
Email lehish
vertical line Quote: "

Progress is in time. Self-identity creates time. No self-identity, no time, no progress."
.........

"
.........

excellenty said

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Reply from lehish
Nov.06.2008
04:20PM EDT 
Email lehish
vertical line Quote: "Quote: "

Progress is in time. Self-identity creates time. No self-identity, no time, no progress. Got it?

"
.........

To put things in your terms...

Change is in time. Why are you calling it progress?

I&apos;d like to see "self-identity" (or any other word-phrase) create anything. If self-identity creates time, what creates self-identity?

"No self-identity"? What are you talking about? Do you suppose memories can be erased consciously?

"
.........

"
.........

To put things in your terms...

Change is in time. Why are you calling it progress?

I&apos;d like to see "self-identity" (or any other word-phrase) create anything. If self-identity creates time, what creates self-identity?

"No self-identity"? What are you talking about? Do you suppose memories can be erased consciously?

"
.........

analyzing fragments, as though is complicated, when not

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Reply from lehish
Nov.06.2008
04:22PM EDT 
Email lehish
vertical line Quote: "

The universe is created in its current state this very moment.  That&apos;s for all the knowers and would-be knowers somewhere out there. 

"
.........

"
.........

you know that, rustic ?

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Reply from lehish
Nov.06.2008
04:26PM EDT 
Email lehish
vertical line

Quote:  "there is no time. Have to stop for now before my 20 minutes is up. "
.........

yep

 

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Reply from 9999999
Nov.06.2008
05:28PM EDT 
Email 9999999
vertical line the form of a dust devil is constantly 'maintained' by the wind
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Reply from noumenal
Nov.06.2008
05:48PM EDT 
Email noumenal
vertical line

He who looks, doesn't see. He who sees, doesn't look.

Freedom's beyond words.

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Reply from noumenal
Nov.06.2008
05:53PM EDT 
Email noumenal
vertical line Quote: "Quote: "

Progress is in time. Self-identity creates time. No self-identity, no time, no progress."
.........

"
.........

excellenty said

"
......... Thanks. I'm glad someone can see the point.
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Reply from noumenal
Nov.06.2008
06:00PM EDT 
Email noumenal
vertical line Quote: "


The universe is created in its current state this very moment.  That&apos;s for all the knowers and would-be knowers somewhere out there.

"......... No need to shout and whisper. We can hear you. Find out who creates it.

"......... No need to shout and whisper. We can hear you. Find out who creates it.
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Reply from ______
Nov.06.2008
06:00PM EDT 
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lehish:  any 'said' is a lie

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Reply from ______
Nov.06.2008
06:02PM EDT 
vertical line Quote: "Quote: "


The universe is created in its current state this very moment.  That&apos;s for all the knowers and would-be knowers somewhere out there.

"......... No need to shout and whisper. We can hear you. Find out who creates it.

"......... No need to shout and whisper. We can hear you. Find out who creates it.
"
.........

Dancing not shouting.  Dancing not whispering. So, ah, you can't.
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Reply from ______
Nov.06.2008
06:12PM EDT 
vertical line Quote: "Quote: "

The universe is created in its current state this very moment.  That&apos;s for all the knowers and would-be knowers somewhere out there. 

"
.........

"
.........

you know that, rustic ?

"
.........


w h o o o o s h

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Reply from ______
Nov.06.2008
06:14PM EDT 
vertical line Quote: "Quote: "Quote: "

Progress is in time. Self-identity creates time. No self-identity, no time, no progress."
.........

"
.........

excellenty said

"
......... Thanks. I'm glad someone can see the point.
"
.........

lehish:  any 'said' is a lie

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Reply from ______
Nov.06.2008
06:16PM EDT 
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excellent lies

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Reply from ______
Nov.06.2008
06:33PM EDT 
vertical line

Sometimes naked

Sometimes mad

Now the scholar

Now the fool

Thus they appear on earth

The free men

And women

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Reply from ______
Nov.06.2008
06:43PM EDT 
vertical line There's a ? over there telling rustic to "find out who creates it" - so ? should have already heard that rustic doesn't  know what ? knows, that rustic is living in the land of bewilderment.  Perhaps ? should unplug that knowledge from them there ears. 
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Reply from ______
Nov.06.2008
08:11PM EDT 
vertical line
Join the dot
See the point
Freckle the pixel

Expand the dot
Binary fission
Reproduce
Transmission

No fossils

Divided dot
Multiplying singularity

Come
MU
Negating
Dis-Ease

Pla-bonga pla-bonga pla-bonga

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Reply from emancipate
Nov.06.2008
10:10PM EDT 
vertical line "Much ado about nothing". ;)

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Reply from noumenal
Nov.07.2008
12:04AM EDT 
Email noumenal
vertical line Tops!
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Reply from ______
Nov.07.2008
07:25AM EDT 
vertical line Quote: ""Much ado about nothing". ;)

"
.........

No "much ado" about anything - no "much ado".

I enjoyed playing with the fonts and colours and laughing simultaneously but in respect of and in deference to the one, it was a [lower] case of caps off at all times held like breath in the hand as the dancing whirled and the whirling danced. 


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Reply from lehish
Nov.07.2008
07:54AM EDT 
Email lehish
vertical line Quote: "Quote: "Quote: "

Progress is in time. Self-identity creates time. No self-identity, no time, no progress."
.........

"
.........

excellenty said

"
......... Thanks. I&apos;m glad someone can see the point."
.........

"
......... Thanks. I&apos;m glad someone can see the point.
"
.........

thanks

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Reply from lehish
Nov.07.2008
07:56AM EDT 
Email lehish
vertical line Quote: "Quote: "Quote: "Quote: "

Progress is in time. Self-identity creates time. No self-identity, no time, no progress."
.........

"
.........

excellenty said

"
......... Thanks. I&apos;m glad someone can see the point.
"
.........

lehish:  any &apos;said&apos; is a lie

"
.........

"
.........

though words can't say


still was excently said

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Reply from ______
Nov.07.2008
07:56AM EDT 
vertical line Heard him lie twice the first time.
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Reply from ______
Nov.07.2008
07:56AM EDT 
vertical line hahaha 
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Reply from lehish
Nov.07.2008
07:57AM EDT 
Email lehish
vertical line Quote: "Quote: "Quote: "

The universe is created in its current state this very moment.  That&apos;s for all the knowers and would-be knowers somewhere out there. 

"
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"
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you know that, rustic ?

"
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w h o o o o s h

"
.........

"
.........

sh

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Reply from lehish
Nov.07.2008
07:58AM EDT 
Email lehish
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Quote: ""Much ado about nothing". ;)"
.........

yes

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Reply from lehish
Nov.07.2008
08:00AM EDT 
Email lehish
vertical line Quote: "Quote: ""Much ado about nothing". ;)

"
.........

No "much ado" about anything - no "much ado".

I enjoyed playing with the fonts and colours and laughing simultaneously but in respect of and in deference to the one, it was a [lower] case of caps off at all times held like breath in the hand as the dancing whirled and the whirling danced. 


"
.........

"
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yet explained

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Reply from ______
Nov.07.2008
08:01AM EDT 
vertical line Only if thinking much ado about about about - it was no trouble - you're welcome.
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Reply from ______
Nov.07.2008
08:02AM EDT 
vertical line Quote: "Quote: "Quote: ""Much ado about nothing". ;)

"
.........

No "much ado" about anything - no "much ado".

I enjoyed playing with the fonts and colours and laughing simultaneously but in respect of and in deference to the one, it was a [lower] case of caps off at all times held like breath in the hand as the dancing whirled and the whirling danced. 

".........
"
......... 

yet explained

"
.........

So what's your point lehish?
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Reply from lehish
Nov.07.2008
08:02AM EDT 
Email lehish
vertical line Quote: "Quote: ""Much ado about nothing". ;)

"
.........

No "much ado" about anything - no "much ado".

I enjoyed playing with the fonts and colours and laughing simultaneously but in respect of and in deference to the one, it was a [lower] case of caps off at all times held like breath in the hand as the dancing whirled and the whirling danced. 


"
.........

"
.........

a lie ? ;)

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Reply from ______
Nov.07.2008
08:04AM EDT 
vertical line Quote: "Quote: "Quote: ""Much ado about nothing". ;)

"
.........

No "much ado" about anything - no "much ado".

I enjoyed playing with the fonts and colours and laughing simultaneously but in respect of and in deference to the one, it was a [lower] case of caps off at all times held like breath in the hand as the dancing whirled and the whirling danced. 


"
.........

"
......... 

a lie ? ;)

"

.........

oh puh-lease 
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Reply from lehish
Nov.07.2008
08:08AM EDT 
Email lehish
vertical line Quote: "

lehish:  any &apos;said&apos; is a lie

"
.........
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Reply from Lynnoh
Nov.07.2008
02:17PM EDT 
Email Lynnoh
vertical line Quote: "Quote: "Quote: "

Progress is in time. Self-identity creates time. No self-identity, no time, no progress."
.........

"
.........

excellenty said

"
......... Thanks. I&apos;m glad someone can see the point."
.........

"
......... Thanks. I&apos;m glad someone can see the point.
"
.........

hahahaha

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Reply from 9999999
Nov.07.2008
05:10PM EDT 
Email 9999999
vertical line PUH-CLUCKING-LEASE!
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Reply from immortal 1
Nov.08.2008
06:50AM EDT 
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As per the origina question:

Hello All,
I've been sitting and using various websites for about 5 months now.  I am progressing in practice with Zazen nicely.  I was wondering if anyone uses additional techniques (other than the usual counting breaths and following breathing) to help concentrate and prevent monkey-mind.

Thanks,
Joe

Yeah, Joe, I use Yoga stretching exercises before zazen to ward off cramping, and I use self-hypnosis as a launching pad for meditation, and I burn incense and listen to a tape of ocean sounds while meditating. 

Fixing your face with a slight smile is good too.  The mind tends to focus on current problems, and smiling wards off negative thoughts.

Aside from counting breaths you can also check your muscles for tension.  Start at your feet and check all your body parts for tension.  If you find tension then tense up that part for a few seconds and release.  The way to relax is to recognize tension and then just let it go.

There really is no right or wrong way to meditate.  Experiment with different methods and ideas of your own.   There is no goal.  No success or failure.   I like to do it to release tension that has built up between sessions, and to recenter myself so as to prepare for more daily life.  I also like the dreams, visions, out of body experiences, and transcendental experiences too, but that is just me.  Others do not and that is them. Whatever. It does not matter.  Have fun with it.

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Reply from ZenNoob
Nov.08.2008
07:20AM EDT 
Email ZenNoob
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Yes, I've used a body scan as well.  It's odd, certain techniques help me, but others make my mind wander.  Like counting breaths.  I used this all the time at first, but giving my mind a task like that screws up my concentration.  I invited the mokey-mind and did Shikantanza, and these work really well. 

-Joe

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