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  One day a Vinaya master asked a Zen master:
-How should one practice Tao?
The Zen master replied:
-Eat when you are hungry, sleep when you are tired.
The Vinaya master said:
-Most people do that.
The Zen master... continue...

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→→→→ vertical line TOPIC: TEACHERS...
vertical line Posted on Nov.08.2008 @ 07:46AM EDT by ZenNoob

Good Morning,

After much practice and study, I've come to the conclusion that I am still very much a beginner in all this and I need interaction with other buddhists to grow.  Here's the problem:  I study and meditate alone (this is great for my well-being), but one of the books I have recommends finding a teacher.  This may be well and good, but I live in RURAL VIRGINIA.  Not alot of Zendos around here.   Can one study through correspondence with a teacher, or perhaps could I just post more questions on here and spend all of my free time sifting through nonsense posts?  I know alot of this comes from within, but I need some help extracting it lately, like my rate of learning about myself has slowed.  Any advice would be helpful.

Thanks,

Joe


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Reply from ______
Nov.08.2008
07:57AM EDT 
vertical line Objectify yourself and subjectify the so-called nonsense and be grateful for it. 

There is a story of a dervish who spoke with a young man who was very interested in his words of wisdom. The young man said, 'If I come to your part of the world, I will come to see you. Will you tell me where you live?' The dervish replied, 'I live in the place of the liars'. ... When he went to that country and asked for the dervish, the people said, 'We do not know any place of liars, but there is a dervish living somewhere here'. So they took him near the graveyard where the dervish lived. 

The first question the young man asked was, 'Why did you give me a name which is not the name of the place?' The dervish replied, 'Yes, this is a place of liars'. It was the graveyard. He said, 'Come with me, I shall show you. This here is a tomb, they say, of a general. Where is his sword, where is his power, where is his voice, what is he now? Is he a general? Here, this one was called a prime-minister. Where is his ministry, where is his office, where is his pen, where is his power? In the same ground! This person was called a judge. Whom is he judging now? He is in the ground. Were they not liars? Did they not tell a lie saying I am so and so, and I am such and such?'
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 89322
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Reply from kelvintan
Nov.08.2008
08:11AM EDT 
Email kelvintan
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Buddha had so many teachers but none could answer what he wanted to know.

So he search for the answers  within himself.

Zen Engages Nature Need Observe Oneself  By

meditating and not expecting anything, soon wisdom will arise

to guide you.

With Metta

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Reply from 9999999
Nov.08.2008
09:22AM EDT 
Email 9999999
vertical line you may not always be getting what you think you're getting
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 89325
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Reply from ZenNoob
Nov.08.2008
10:11AM EDT 
Email ZenNoob
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I don't seem to get much.  Only this:

I meditate.  The more I do it, the better I feel overall.

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Reply from shayne
Nov.08.2008
10:20AM EDT 
Email shayne
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which is good.

their IS progress.

it happens over time.

dont let THESE zen noobs fool ya.

vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 89327
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Reply from IZIZIZ
Nov.08.2008
05:03PM EDT 
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On this actual site there are a lot of zen stories and koans.

Print them off. Compile a book. Frame some. Sit outside and read some and look at the world.

If you try to force your hand into a new glove you will experience difficulty and anxiety.

Relax. Its your glove and your hand, and the one moving picture.

Aquire some books by D.T.Suzuki. I can recommend 'The Awakening of Zen', and 'The Zen Doctrine of No Mind'.

And eventually I hope that you dont get all dissapointed when you find that there is nothing to learn.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

A ZEN STORY

 

The student Doko came to a Zen master, and said,
"I am seeking the truth”.

 

In what state of mind should I
train myself, so as to find it?"


        The master said, "There is no mind, so you cannot put it in any state.

There is no truth, so you cannot train yourself
for it."


        The student then asked, "if there is no mind to train, and no truth to find, why do you have these monks gather before you every day to study Zen and train themselves for this study?"


       The master said, "but I haven’t an inch of room here, so how could the monks gather”?

 

I have no tongue, so how could I call them together or teach them?"


        "Oh, how can you talk like this?" said Doko.


       The master replied "but if I have no tongue to talk to others, how can I lie to you?"


        Then Doko said sadly, "I cannot follow you.  I cannot understand you."


        "I cannot understand myself," said the master.

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Reply from noumenal
Nov.08.2008
06:39PM EDT 
Email noumenal
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I empathize with your dilemma of "sifting through nonsense posts". A little more sincerity would make these topics a lot more useful.

On teaching, one is one's own teacher of course, as you must have read elsewhere. Although an outer teacher can serve us well, an authentic outer teacher will always point you in the direction of yourself.

Ultimately it doesn't really matter what teachers you have. Your heartfelt sincerity and determination will lead you home anyway. You cannot fail.

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Reply from emancipate
Nov.08.2008
06:59PM EDT 
vertical line Quote: "

Ultimately it doesn't really matter what teachers you have. Your heartfelt sincerity and determination will lead you home anyway. You cannot fail.

"
.........

Champion sound.

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Reply from ______
Nov.08.2008
08:55PM EDT 
vertical line Quote: "

I empathize with your dilemma of "sifting through nonsense posts". A little more sincerity would make these topics a lot more useful.

On teaching, one is one's own teacher of course, as you must have read elsewhere. Although an outer teacher can serve us well, an authentic outer teacher will always point you in the direction of yourself.

Ultimately it doesn't really matter what teachers you have. Your heartfelt sincerity and determination will lead you home anyway. You cannot fail.

"
.........



Dilemma for who?  A little more sincerity from whom?  Where is the insincerity? Useful for who?  Success for who?

.........


Quote: "
I am this that or the other is the self-identity trap. Identify yourself as something and you build a wall: there's you and not-you. Equals isolation, alienation, suffering, war, fragmentation, the duality of observer-and-observed, subject-and-object, yours and mine, etc, etc.
"
.........
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 89342
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Reply from ZenNoob
Nov.09.2008
09:35AM EDT 
Email ZenNoob
vertical line Morning Coffee is now pee in the sewage
So, it's not coffee.

A vulgar answer, yes, and I'm not saying I figured it out.
Just that I understand a little better.
Thank you, Rustic.
--Joe
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 89436
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Reply from ______
Nov.09.2008
10:43AM EDT 
vertical line The sugar and the sugarcane.  Good day!
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Reply from noumenal
Nov.09.2008
04:41PM EDT 
Email noumenal
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Dilemma for who?  A little more sincerity from whom?  Where is the insincerity? Useful for who?  Success for who?

.........
I don't believe you don't see it.


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Reply from lehish
Nov.09.2008
11:34PM EDT 
Email lehish
vertical line Quote: " Your heartfelt sincerity and determination will lead you home anyway. You cannot fail.

"
.........

"
.........

yes .but only when nolonger

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Reply from noumenal
Nov.10.2008
12:15AM EDT 
Email noumenal
vertical line Quote: "Quote: " Your heartfelt sincerity and determination will lead you home anyway. You cannot fail.

"
.........

"
.........

yes .but only when nolonger

"
......... ? I don't understand what you mean. Could you put that differently? 
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Reply from ______
Nov.10.2008
10:54AM EDT 
vertical line Quote: "



Dilemma for who?  A little more sincerity from whom?  Where is the insincerity? Useful for who?  Success for who?

.........
I don't believe you don't see it.
"
.........

Questions.  About projection. In light of your / our seemingly contradictory statements that appear to want to manipulate and tangle.  And yet, if I see someone being beaten up in the street, or someone whipping a horse, or someone kicking a dog, or someone throwing stones at a cat, or someone using a hedgehog for a game of football, or . . . it's not the same thing, and I would and have intervened, so yeah, I see it, I experience it but I ain't dwelling on it, that way madness lies.  
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Reply from lehish
Nov.10.2008
11:26AM EDT 
Email lehish
vertical line Quote: "Quote: "Quote: " Your heartfelt sincerity and determination will lead you home anyway. You cannot fail.

"
.........

"
.........

yes .but only when nolonger

"
......... ? I don't understand what you mean. Could you put that differently? "
.........

"
......... ? I don't understand what you mean. Could you put that differently? 
"
.........

yes is enough, but if wanting doesn't cease it will a hindrance

may lehish fortuante rustic doesn't read this ;)

vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 89511
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Reply from noumenal
Nov.10.2008
05:17PM EDT 
Email noumenal
vertical line Quote:

yes is enough, but if wanting doesn't cease it will a hindrance

"
.........

"
.........

Ok,  I see your point. Thanks

vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 89519
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Reply from ______
Nov.10.2008
06:06PM EDT 
vertical line Oh look, another funny.
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 89523
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Reply from lehish
Nov.10.2008
11:41PM EDT 
Email lehish
vertical line Quote: "Quote:

yes is enough, but if wanting doesn't cease it will a hindrance

"
.........

"
.........

Ok,  I see your point. Thanks

"
.........

"
.........

thanks

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Reply from immortal 1
Nov.11.2008
06:48AM EDT 
vertical line Quote: "

I don't seem to get much.  Only this:

I meditate.  The more I do it, the better I feel overall.

"
.........

"
.........

I believe this is the only purpose or value in meditation.  It is enough, initself, to meditate for the sake of meditation, because it feels good.

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Reply from immortal 1
Nov.11.2008
06:51AM EDT 
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Recently on an educational channel I saw a film of two dungbeetles fighting over a piece of crap.

The image of that should be all the teaching you need.

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Reply from ______
Nov.11.2008
06:54AM EDT 
vertical line Image?  Of that?
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 89554
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Reply from ZenNoob
Nov.12.2008
07:34AM EDT 
Email ZenNoob
vertical line Quote: "

Recently on an educational channel I saw a film of two dungbeetles fighting over a piece of crap.

The image of that should be all the teaching you need.

"
.........

"
.........

It's crap, because it is crap.

It's not crap, because it is the beetles' nourishment.

Thus it is both crap and not crap.

Can you believe I was contemplating this?

-Joe

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Reply from immortal 1
Nov.12.2008
07:47AM EDT 
vertical line Quote: "Quote: "

Recently on an educational channel I saw a film of two dungbeetles fighting over a piece of crap.

The image of that should be all the teaching you need.

"
.........

"
.........

It's crap, because it is crap.

It's not crap, because it is the beetles' nourishment.

Thus it is both crap and not crap.

Can you believe I was contemplating this?

-Joe

"
.........

"
.........

There are a lot of different aspects, including those you mentioned.

Corporate infighting comes to mind, aka office politics.

War is not exclusive to man is another idea.

Microcosms and Macrocosms often reflect one another, and give rise to interesting contemplation, as you say here.

When we can see that our behavior as humans is not exclusive to humans it helps to break the boundaries of human egocentricity, and then we can grow beyond that.

That is what I was going for.  As a human you can only live in the world, but if you break the boundaries of being human you can live in the universe.

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Reply from ______
Nov.12.2008
07:55AM EDT 
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Singin’ D. I. S. C. O.  

Singin’ D. I. S. C. O.


Singin’ D - De-lirious

Singin’ I - In-credible

Singin’ S - Super-ficial

Singin’ C - Com-pli-cated

Singin’ Oh Ohhh Ohhhhhhhh


Singin’ D - De-sirable

Singin’ I - Irre-stisible

Singin’ S - Super-Sexy

Singin’ C - Such-a-Cutie

Singin’ Oh Ohhh Ohhhhhhhh

vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 89609
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Reply from emancipate
Nov.12.2008
08:30AM EDT 
vertical line Quote: "
"
.........

When we can see that our behavior as humans is not exclusive to humans it helps to break the boundaries of human egocentricity, and then we can grow beyond that.

That is what I was going for.  As a human you can only live in the world, but if you break the boundaries of being human you can live in the universe.

"
.........

There is no describing the adrenaline you feel when you extract candy from a not so baby.
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Reply from lehish
Nov.12.2008
11:40AM EDT 
Email lehish
vertical line Quote: "

Singin’ D. I. S. C. O.  

Singin’ D. I. S. C. O.


Singin’ D - De-lirious

Singin’ I - In-credible

Singin’ S - Super-ficial

Singin’ C - Com-pli-cated

Singin’ Oh Ohhh Ohhhhhhhh


Singin’ D - De-sirable

Singin’ I - Irre-stisible

Singin’ S - Super-Sexy

Singin’ C - Such-a-Cutie

Singin’ Oh Ohhh Ohhhhhhhh

"
.........

oh dear, what a tale you weave


Singin’ D - De-sirable

Singin’ I - Irre-stisible

Singin’ S - Super-Sexy

Singin’ C - Such-a-Cutie

Singin’ Oh Ohhh Ohhhhhhhh

"
.........

oh dear, what a tale you weave


Singin’ D - De-lirious

Singin’ I - In-credible

Singin’ S - Super-ficial

Singin’ C - Com-pli-cated

Singin’ Oh Ohhh Ohhhhhhhh


Singin’ D - De-sirable

Singin’ I - Irre-stisible

Singin’ S - Super-Sexy

Singin’ C - Such-a-Cutie

Singin’ Oh Ohhh Ohhhhhhhh

"
.........

oh dear, what a tale you weave


Singin’ D - De-sirable

Singin’ I - Irre-stisible

Singin’ S - Super-Sexy

Singin’ C - Such-a-Cutie

Singin’ Oh Ohhh Ohhhhhhhh

Singin’ D. I. S. C. O.  

Singin’ D. I. S. C. O.


Singin’ D - De-lirious

Singin’ I - In-credible

Singin’ S - Super-ficial

Singin’ C - Com-pli-cated

Singin’ Oh Ohhh Ohhhhhhhh


Singin’ D - De-sirable

Singin’ I - Irre-stisible

Singin’ S - Super-Sexy

Singin’ C - Such-a-Cutie

Singin’ Oh Ohhh Ohhhhhhhh

"
.........

oh dear, what a tale you weave


Singin’ D - De-sirable

Singin’ I - Irre-stisible

Singin’ S - Super-Sexy

Singin’ C - Such-a-Cutie

Singin’ Oh Ohhh Ohhhhhhhh

"
.........

oh dear, what a tale you weave


Singin’ D - De-lirious

Singin’ I - In-credible

Singin’ S - Super-ficial

Singin’ C - Com-pli-cated

Singin’ Oh Ohhh Ohhhhhhhh


Singin’ D - De-sirable

Singin’ I - Irre-stisible

Singin’ S - Super-Sexy

Singin’ C - Such-a-Cutie

Singin’ Oh Ohhh Ohhhhhhhh

"
.........

oh dear, what a tale you weave


Singin’ D - De-sirable

Singin’ I - Irre-stisible

Singin’ S - Super-Sexy

Singin’ C - Such-a-Cutie

Singin’ Oh Ohhh Ohhhhhhhh

"
.........

"
.........

oh dear, what a tale you weave

vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 89625
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Reply from ______
Nov.12.2008
12:18PM EDT 
vertical line Catchy choon.
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 89627
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Reply from lehish
Nov.13.2008
03:12AM EDT 
Email lehish
vertical line :)
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 89665
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