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  Suiwo, the disciple of Hakuin, was a good teacher. On a certain day a certain pupil came to him, and Suiwo gave him the problem, "Hear the sound of one hand." The pupil remained three years, but could not pass the test. One night he came... continue...

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→→→→ vertical line TOPIC: SPACIOUSNESS
vertical line Posted on Nov.08.2008 @ 10:01AM EDT by ______

A search for knowledge/wisdom/enlightenment/God as an object-to-be-acquired is born of our tendency to be subjective toward ourselves and objective towards all other [especially people as things for projection].  But the ground of awareness realised as spaciousness, objectifies oneself and is subjective toward all other - the breakthrough realisation that we are not the thoughts and feelings we mistake for identity, which objectify the other, that we are not victims of what is happening [a victim of our suffering, our pain]; it is the realisation that we are a witness to what is happening.


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Reply from kelvintan
Nov.08.2008
11:15AM EDT 
Email kelvintan
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Rich Understanding Sound Truth In Comprehending

Well Said

With Metta

vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 89328
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Reply from emancipate
Nov.08.2008
06:52PM EDT 
vertical line Quote: "

we are not the thoughts and feelings we mistake for identity

it is the realisation that we are a witness to what is happening.

"
------------

Witness. Think. Feel. Value the posted information.

So, let go and take charge?
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 89336
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Reply from ______
Nov.08.2008
08:46PM EDT 
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No. 

The Ineffable - no it or what.  As an incommunicable streaming luminosity - the sourceless source - letting be - the silent eye gazing on and gazed through the silent eye.

But don't take my word[s] for it. 


vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 89339
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Reply from lehish
Nov.08.2008
08:51PM EDT 
Email lehish
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there can pain without identification and suffering without imagined 'suffer'

when just paining, just suffering, there's not thinking  i'm in pain or i'm suffering

 

vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 89340
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Reply from ______
Nov.08.2008
09:15PM EDT 
vertical line Hence witness [no identification].
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 89346
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Reply from sit_teh
Nov.08.2008
09:18PM EDT 
Email sit_teh
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A good touch to this understanding for the moment which is now... nowness

Hitting on the right key for myself; as my being Is .. as recently

good

vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 89347
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Reply from lehish
Nov.08.2008
10:15PM EDT 
Email lehish
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Quote: "Hence witness [no identification]."
.........

wasn't referring identification

when just suffering, there's no sufferer,

so, there's nothing to point, rustic

vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 89352
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Reply from lehish
Nov.08.2008
10:17PM EDT 
Email lehish
vertical line this is not textbook knowledge suff
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 89353
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Reply from kelvintan
Nov.08.2008
10:33PM EDT 
Email kelvintan
vertical line Quote: "

A good touch to this understanding for the moment which is now... nowness

Hitting on the right key for myself; as my being Is .. as recently

good

"
.........

"
.........

Silence Is Timeless_ Thoughts  Engagement Hinders

With Metta

vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 89355
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Reply from kelvintan
Nov.08.2008
10:50PM EDT 
Email kelvintan
vertical line Quote: "

there can pain without identification and suffering without imagined 'suffer'

when just paining, just suffering, there's not thinking  i'm in pain or i'm suffering

"
.........

"
.........

Language Expression Helps In Solving Hindrances

With Metta

vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 89356
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Reply from ______
Nov.08.2008
11:19PM EDT 
vertical line Quote: "

Quote: "Hence witness [no identification]."
.........

wasn't referring identification

when just suffering, there's no sufferer,

so, there's nothing to point, rustic

"
.........


Well, you referred to identification and nobody is pointing at anything.  Go ahead and pick it all to bits lehish. 
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 89357
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Reply from ______
Nov.08.2008
11:20PM EDT 
vertical line Quote: "this is not textbook knowledge suff"
.........

There was and is no suggestion that this is textbook knowledge suff.  
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 89358
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Reply from 9999999
Nov.09.2008
01:54AM EDT 
Email 9999999
vertical line ALIVE
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 89359
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Reply from Rebecca
Nov.09.2008
02:18AM EDT 
Email Rebecca
vertical line I agee... well said
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 89360
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Reply from Rebecca
Nov.09.2008
02:22AM EDT 
Email Rebecca
vertical line well said Rustic
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 89361
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Reply from ______
Nov.09.2008
02:53AM EDT 
vertical line thank you
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 89388
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Reply from lehish
Nov.09.2008
03:40AM EDT 
Email lehish
vertical line Quote: "Quote: "this is not textbook knowledge suff"
.........

There was and is no suggestion that this is textbook knowledge suff.  

"
.........

"
.........

which u diescribed wan't which was saying

vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 89390
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Reply from 9999999
Nov.09.2008
03:44AM EDT 
Email 9999999
vertical line we're drunk.
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 89391
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Reply from lehish
Nov.09.2008
03:49AM EDT 
Email lehish
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Quote: "Hence witness [no identification]."
.........

when suffering is total (not as though a 'gap', not thinking-about) there isn't identification

if you said "Hence witness [no identification]"  to extreme suffering, it wouldn't any meaning...there's no concern  bookish analytic stuff...no concern about blahblah...no concern about 'pointing'

vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 89392
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Reply from lehish
Nov.09.2008
03:50AM EDT 
Email lehish
vertical line Quote: "Quote: "

there can pain without identification and suffering without imagined 'suffer'

when just paining, just suffering, there's not thinking  i'm in pain or i'm suffering

"
.........

"
.........

Language Expression Helps In Solving Hindrances

With Metta

"
.........

"
.........

not if the response doesn't apply

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Reply from lehish
Nov.09.2008
03:54AM EDT 
Email lehish
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Quote: "we're drunk. "
.........

you don't know what u're talking about, and neither does rustic

am not talking about suffering which thinks there's a suffering

totlaj suffering isn't thinking as though 'fragmented'

maybe 9-rustic could not so certain u know so much

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Reply from emancipate
Nov.09.2008
03:58AM EDT 
vertical line Quote: "
No. 

The Ineffable - no it or what.  As an incommunicable streaming luminosity - the sourceless source - letting be - the silent eye gazing on and gazed through the silent eye.

But don't take my word[s] for it. 


"
.........

Let me begin by saying, "there is nothing". There.

vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 89396
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Reply from lehish
Nov.09.2008
04:02AM EDT 
Email lehish
vertical line Quote: "Quote: "
No. 

The Ineffable - no it or what.  As an incommunicable streaming luminosity - the sourceless source - letting be - the silent eye gazing on and gazed through the silent eye.

But don't take my word[s] for it. 


"
.........

Let me begin by saying, "there is nothing". There.

"
.........

"
.........

Let me begin by saying, "there is nothing". There.

"
.........

:D

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Reply from lehish
Nov.09.2008
04:04AM EDT 
Email lehish
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Quote: "Quote: "

we are not the thoughts and feelings we mistake for identity

it is the realisation that we are a witness to what is happening.

"
------------

Witness. Think. Feel. Value the posted information.

So, let go and take charge?
"
.........

take charge of what...what's to talke charge ? ;)

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Reply from 9999999
Nov.09.2008
04:06AM EDT 
Email 9999999
vertical line Quote: "

Quote: "we're drunk. "
.........

you don't know what u're talking about, and neither does rustic

am not talking about suffering which thinks there's a suffering

totlaj suffering isn't thinking as though 'fragmented'

maybe 9-rustic could not so certain u know so much

"
.........

i didnt say that
and i didnt say you said i said that

or at least

i think i think that's what i'm thinking

i am not sure


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Reply from 9999999
Nov.09.2008
04:06AM EDT 
Email 9999999
vertical line what were we saying?

i'm just being cute.

nevermind.
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 89401
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Reply from lehish
Nov.09.2008
04:12AM EDT 
Email lehish
vertical line Quote: "Quote: "

Quote: "we're drunk. "
.........

you don't know what u're talking about, and neither does rustic

am not talking about suffering which thinks there's a suffering

totlaj suffering isn't thinking as though 'fragmented'

maybe 9-rustic could not so certain u know so much

"
.........

i didnt say that
and i didnt say you said i said that

or at least

i think i think that's what i'm thinking

i am not sure


"
.........

"
.........

i didnt say that
and i didnt say you said i said that

or at least

i think i think that's what i'm thinking

i am not sure


"
.........

weren't agreeing with rustic when posted "ALIVE" ?

vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 89403
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Reply from lehish
Nov.09.2008
04:13AM EDT 
Email lehish
vertical line Quote: "Quote: "

Quote: "we're drunk. "
.........

you don't know what u're talking about, and neither does rustic

am not talking about suffering which thinks there's a suffering

totlaj suffering isn't thinking as though 'fragmented'

maybe 9-rustic could not so certain u know so much

"
.........

i didnt say that
and i didnt say you said i said that

or at least

i think i think that's what i'm thinking

i am not sure


"
.........

"
.........

i didnt say that
and i didnt say you said i said that

or at least

i think i think that's what i'm thinking

i am not sure


"
.........

hehehe

vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 89404
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Reply from lehish
Nov.09.2008
04:14AM EDT 
Email lehish
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Quote: " i'm just being cute. "
.........

ah...hehe...ok

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Reply from emancipate
Nov.09.2008
04:20AM EDT 
vertical line Quote: "

take charge of what...what's to talke charge ? ;)

"
.........


Why say anything?

Why didn't you complain about "let go"?

As we see it, the observer is linked to the controller. There are practicalities and practices in which we can partake.

I arrest my case: Greed is good.
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 89407
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Reply from lehish
Nov.09.2008
04:24AM EDT 
Email lehish
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Quote: "Hence witness [no identification]."
.........

there's no thinking-yesterday-tomorrow when suffering is total 

which u responded with was based on an assumption u knew what was being said

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Reply from lehish
Nov.09.2008
04:27AM EDT 
Email lehish
vertical line Quote: "Quote: "

take charge of what...what's to talke charge ? ;)

"
.........


Why say anything?

Why didn't you complain about "let go"?

As we see it, the observer is linked to the controller. There are practicalities and practices in which we can partake.

I arrest my case: Greed is good.
"
.........

"
.........


Why say anything?

Why didn't you complain about "let go"?

As we see it, the observer is linked to the controller. There are practicalities and practices in which we can partake.

I arrest my case: Greed is good.
"
.........

what "complain" ?

what are you thinking is 'linked" as though there's an observer, as though there's a controller ?

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Reply from emancipate
Nov.09.2008
04:39AM EDT 
vertical line Quote: "
.........

what "complain" ?

what are you thinking is 'linked" as though there's an observer, as though there's a controller ?

"
.........

Why are you speaking?

When watching TV, there is a liking of nice things.

The liking (and the disliking) is aware of the ability to control the remote, and thus the ability to control the remote is controlled by the liking and disliking.

This is the link. This is the motivation.

vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 89412
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Reply from lehish
Nov.09.2008
04:53AM EDT 
Email lehish
vertical line Quote: "Quote: "
.........

what "complain" ?

what are you thinking is 'linked" as though there's an observer, as though there's a controller ?

"
.........

Why are you speaking?

When watching TV, there is a liking of nice things.

The liking (and the disliking) is aware of the ability to control the remote, and thus the ability to control the remote is controlled by the liking and disliking.

This is the link. This is the motivation.
"
.........

"
.........

Why are you speaking?

When watching TV, there is a liking of nice things.

The liking (and the disliking) is aware of the ability to control the remote, and thus the ability to control the remote is controlled by the liking and disliking.

This is the link. This is the motivation.
"
.........

are you saying posting responding posts is 'complaining' ?

what "liking of nice things' if there's just watching

there as though a separate action, so what's to link ?

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Reply from emancipate
Nov.09.2008
05:43AM EDT 
vertical line Quote: "
.........

are you saying posting responding posts is 'complaining' ?

what "liking of nice things' if there's just watching

there as though a separate action, so what's to link ?

"
.........

There exists a thing called preference. And it is not in watching and being neutral. It is in liking/being pleased/being satisfied.

It's very simple:

Displeasure and dissonance leads to action.

I wouldn't leave my hand above a flame for very long.

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Reply from lehish
Nov.09.2008
05:59AM EDT 
Email lehish
vertical line Quote: "Quote: "
.........

are you saying posting responding posts is 'complaining' ?

what "liking of nice things' if there's just watching

there as though a separate action, so what's to link ?

"
.........

There exists a thing called preference. And it is not in watching and being neutral. It is in liking/being pleased/being satisfied.

It's very simple:

Displeasure and dissonance leads to action.

I wouldn't leave my hand above a flame for very long.
"
.........

spontanious action isn't thought

"
.........

There exists a thing called preference. And it is not in watching and being neutral. It is in liking/being pleased/being satisfied.

It's very simple:

Displeasure and dissonance leads to action.

I wouldn't leave my hand above a flame for very long.
"
.........

spontanious action isn't thought

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Reply from ______
Nov.09.2008
09:15AM EDT 
vertical line Wow . . . er . . .f e v e r . . .  whooo
I can't be bothered to respond to any particular and/or individual posts - what I posted was what was posted and had notthing whatsoever to do with knowing anything, pointing at anything, looking to debate about anything, disagreeing, agreeing, patting whoever on whatever part of the anatomy - following the original post I subsequently posted a response to a response to the original post, [you following this?] and then a clarification of witness/identify/ identification - so that's what it is and that's it.  Now, go and do something useful. 


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Reply from lehish
Nov.09.2008
10:42AM EDT 
Email lehish
vertical line Quote: "Wow . . . er . . .f e v e r . . .  whooo
I can't be bothered to respond to any particular and/or individual posts - what I posted was what was posted and had notthing whatsoever to do with knowing anything, pointing at anything, looking to debate about anything, disagreeing, agreeing, patting whoever on whatever part of the anatomy - following the original post I subsequently posted a response to a response to the original post, [you following this?] and then a clarification of witness/identify/ identification - so that's what it is and that's it.  Now, go and do something useful. 


"
.........  

"
.........  

the post you posted cleary showed that it was assumed you thought you understood the post ...which you're calling 'clarifying' was pointing "indentification" which isn't the case when total suffering...did you listen  any of the responding posts or just look to blah as though you know ?

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Reply from ______
Nov.09.2008
11:19AM EDT 
vertical line The title of this topic is . . . s p a c i o u s n e s s . . . not speciousness. 

vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 89440
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Reply from emancipate
Nov.09.2008
05:59PM EDT 
vertical line Quote: "
.........

spontanious action isn't thought

"
.........

How spontaneous was that (read-think-type-click) post?

Self-identity: yet another set of orientations intertwined with and affected by the many others. If it were to be expelled, dispelled, or denied, what would you gain?

"No self". "No ego". Such general/philosophical/mathematica/ideological/religious ideas rarely stimulate the reward system in the brain.

vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 89455
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Reply from lehish
Nov.09.2008
11:29PM EDT 
Email lehish
vertical line Quote: "Quote: "
.........

are you saying posting responding posts is 'complaining' ?

what "liking of nice things' if there's just watching

there as though a separate action, so what's to link ?

"
.........

There exists a thing called preference. And it is not in watching and being neutral. It is in liking/being pleased/being satisfied.

It's very simple:

Displeasure and dissonance leads to action.

I wouldn't leave my hand above a flame for very long.
"
.........

hand spontaneous leaving flame isn't 'thought', isn't 'control'

seeking pleasure-satisfaction is wanting

preference is preferring eating food instead eating poopoo

"
.........

There exists a thing called preference. And it is not in watching and being neutral. It is in liking/being pleased/being satisfied.

It's very simple:

Displeasure and dissonance leads to action.

I wouldn't leave my hand above a flame for very long.
"
.........

hand spontaneous leaving flame isn't 'thought', isn't 'control'

seeking pleasure-satisfaction is wanting

preference is preferring eating food instead eating poopoo

vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 89461
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Reply from lehish
Nov.09.2008
11:30PM EDT 
Email lehish
vertical line Quote: "The title of this topic is . . . s p a c i o u s n e s s . . . not speciousness. 

"
.........

"
.........

there you go, rustic, assuming

vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 89462
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Reply from lehish
Nov.09.2008
11:31PM EDT 
Email lehish
vertical line Quote: "Quote: "
.........

spontanious action isn't thought

"
.........

How spontaneous was that (read-think-type-click) post?

Self-identity: yet another set of orientations intertwined with and affected by the many others. If it were to be expelled, dispelled, or denied, what would you gain?

"No self". "No ego". Such general/philosophical/mathematica/ideological/religious ideas rarely stimulate the reward system in the brain.

"
.........

"
.........

How spontaneous was that (read-think-type-click) post?

Self-identity: yet another set of orientations intertwined with and affected by the many others. If it were to be expelled, dispelled, or denied, what would you gain?

"No self". "No ego". Such general/philosophical/mathematica/ideological/religious ideas rarely stimulate the reward system in the brain.

"
.........

those are your ideas

vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 89463
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Reply from lehish
Nov.10.2008
12:01AM EDT 
Email lehish
vertical line

not saying they're yours though

;)

vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 89465
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