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  The exquisite Shunkai whose other name was Suzu was compelled to marry against her wishes when she was quite young. Later, after this marriage had ended, she attended the university, where she studied philosophy. To see Shunkai was to fall... continue...

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→→→→ vertical line TOPIC: THE MOMENT
vertical line Posted on Nov.09.2008 @ 02:20AM EDT by Rebecca
Everything says...live in the moment...But I have to live in my future.....Confuses me
Go to Latest Reply   Reply to this Topic   Email Rebecca
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Reply from boymonk
Nov.09.2008
02:24AM EDT 
vertical line Exactly, there's no confusion in the now. Of course I could be mistaken, I think...
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 89363
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Reply from 9999999
Nov.09.2008
02:24AM EDT 
Email 9999999
vertical line you'll never get out of the now


toodleooo
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 89362
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Reply from Rebecca
Nov.09.2008
02:25AM EDT 
Email Rebecca
vertical line But how do you plan for the future..... if your in the now?
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 89364
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Reply from 9999999
Nov.09.2008
02:26AM EDT 
Email 9999999
vertical line do you plan for the future in the future?
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 89365
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Reply from boymonk
Nov.09.2008
02:27AM EDT 
vertical line Yes. For instance I'm now planing for what might happen next.
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 89366
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Reply from boymonk
Nov.09.2008
02:28AM EDT 
vertical line Hello?
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 89367
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Reply from Rebecca
Nov.09.2008
02:28AM EDT 
Email Rebecca
vertical line Yes I do plan for the future.... for survivals sake
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 89368
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Reply from boymonk
Nov.09.2008
02:29AM EDT 
vertical line You plan for more than survival, dear. This we know without question.
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 89369
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Reply from 9999999
Nov.09.2008
02:29AM EDT 
Email 9999999
vertical line when do you plan for the future?
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 89370
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Reply from 9999999
Nov.09.2008
02:30AM EDT 
Email 9999999
vertical line Quote: "do you plan for the future in the future?
"
.........
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 89371
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Reply from boymonk
Nov.09.2008
02:30AM EDT 
vertical line In your future, of course.
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 89372
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Reply from boymonk
Nov.09.2008
02:31AM EDT 
vertical line It can't
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 89375
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Reply from 9999999
Nov.09.2008
02:31AM EDT 
Email 9999999
vertical line everything happens in the now--you plan for the future in the now
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 89374
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Reply from Rebecca
Nov.09.2008
02:31AM EDT 
Email Rebecca
vertical line Ok   This is not helping......
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 89373
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Reply from Rebecca
Nov.09.2008
02:32AM EDT 
Email Rebecca
vertical line hahahhaha!!
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 89376
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Reply from 9999999
Nov.09.2008
02:33AM EDT 
Email 9999999
vertical line DISCUSSION FORUM
» topic list   » start a new topic   » zenguide.com chat
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 89378
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Reply from boymonk
Nov.09.2008
02:33AM EDT 
vertical line Quote: "everything happens in the now--you plan for the future in the now "
.........
No, that's what happened before, in the past.
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 89377
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Reply from boymonk
Nov.09.2008
02:34AM EDT 
vertical line Quote: " DISCUSSION FORUM
» topic list   » start a new topic   » zenguide.com chat
"
.........

Well said!
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 89379
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Reply from 9999999
Nov.09.2008
02:35AM EDT 
Email 9999999
vertical line Quote: "Quote: "everything happens in the now--you plan for the future in the now "
.........
No, that's what happened before, in the past.
"
.........

maybe
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 89380
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Reply from boymonk
Nov.09.2008
02:36AM EDT 
vertical line I don't have time for this...
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 89381
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Reply from 9999999
Nov.09.2008
02:37AM EDT 
Email 9999999
vertical line bwahahaha
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 89383
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Reply from Rebecca
Nov.09.2008
02:37AM EDT 
Email Rebecca
vertical line forget it!
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 89382
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Reply from ______
Nov.09.2008
02:38AM EDT 
vertical line beautiful
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 89384
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Reply from Rebecca
Nov.09.2008
02:39AM EDT 
Email Rebecca
vertical line Is plane English so hard?.....Forget it
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 89385
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Reply from 9999999
Nov.09.2008
02:46AM EDT 
Email 9999999
vertical line you only hear what you are thinking and not what i'm saying
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 89386
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Reply from 9999999
Nov.09.2008
02:49AM EDT 
Email 9999999
vertical line and really, what you call you IS your thinking
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 89387
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Reply from 9999999
Nov.09.2008
03:05AM EDT 
Email 9999999
vertical line i mean

i only hear what i am thinking and not what you're saying

and really, "me" IS my thinking


'cuz it's all about me >;p
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 89389
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Reply from emancipate
Nov.09.2008
03:54AM EDT 
vertical line Quote: "Is plane English so hard?.....Forget it"
.........

What's the problem? You have no choice (but to "live in the moment").

There are those that live in fantasy. Creating desire/lust/addiction/expectation for something that turns out to not fulfill. But this is a very specific example full of hateful ideas ("sin"), and not a very good example of "mind gone wrong". You should be happy if things are working OK up there while you're alive. ;)

vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 89395
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Reply from Rebecca
Nov.09.2008
04:06AM EDT 
Email Rebecca
vertical line All I was saying was .... that If I have to worry about feeding my kids.... shelter.... etc in the future..... It takes away from my now...... If I am in the now.... planning for it ....great. Whatever.... My brain hurts...... Its too intellectual for me
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 89400
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Reply from 9999999
Nov.09.2008
04:11AM EDT 
Email 9999999
vertical line Quote: "All I was saying was .... that If I have to worry about feeding my kids.... shelter.... etc in the future..... It takes away from my now...... If I am in the now.... planning for it ....great. Whatever.... My brain hurts...... Its too intellectual for me"
.........

are you okay with that?


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Reply from emancipate
Nov.09.2008
04:16AM EDT 
vertical line Quote: "All I was saying was .... that If I have to worry about feeding my kids.... shelter.... etc in the future..... It takes away from my now...... If I am in the now.... planning for it ....great. Whatever.... My brain hurts...... Its too intellectual for me"
.........

The "worry" can be something. But the planning is normal.

Take it more as "being realistic" rather than "being in the now".

You can deny that time exists - in the sense that the past will never again exist. But you can't very much deny potential in the future.

Think of it in terms of levels of obsession.

The postings here on Zenguide are all well planned-out action.

vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 89406
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Reply from 9999999
Nov.09.2008
04:29AM EDT 
Email 9999999
vertical line don't make it too hard. you dont need to be smart and you dont need to understand.  it seems that some people here are after swapping ideas, swapping pats on the back, and getting a kick out of going back and fourth with ideas that are taken seriously by some, and not by others--to make them see it their way, dismantle words, and pick up knowledge for their goodie bag of phrases.  don't take it personally--because there isnt anyone there behind the words.




are you aware?

do you have awareness?

or are-you-what-is-aware?

does that ever change?

do you become more aware?

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

see that what you are IS 'just aware' and doesnt 'become' more aware at any time

that's the beginning and the end of your endeavor

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

waking up: aware? yes

eating breakfast: aware? yes

working: aware? yes

eating dinner: aware? yes

showering: aware? yes

laying down in bed to rest: aware? yes

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

you are not aware of "time"

the idea of "time" is a present idea

the above phrase is redundant because ideas can only appear in the present

~~~~~~


"aware"  "enter zen from there"
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Reply from lehish
Nov.09.2008
04:31AM EDT 
Email lehish
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Quote: "The postings here on Zenguide are all well planned-out action"
.........

is that so ?

vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 89411
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Reply from lehish
Nov.09.2008
04:44AM EDT 
Email lehish
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Quote: "But how do you plan for the future..... if your in the now?"
.........

future isn't, though planning is

vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 89414
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Reply from emancipate
Nov.09.2008
04:44AM EDT 
vertical line Quote: "

Quote: "The postings here on Zenguide are all well planned-out action"
.........

is that so ?

"
.........

We're aware of the plan-making.

And the aware can adjust the course of action. And the typing of, "is that so?", is the aware-adjust together. Beyond this there is really nothing. There is nothing to be said. So, what makes you speak out?

vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 89413
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Reply from lehish
Nov.09.2008
04:45AM EDT 
Email lehish
vertical line Quote: "Quote: "

Quote: "The postings here on Zenguide are all well planned-out action"
.........

is that so ?

"
.........

We're aware of the plan-making.

And the aware can adjust the course of action. And the typing of, "is that so?", is the aware-adjust together. Beyond this there is really nothing. There is nothing to be said. So, what makes you speak out?

"
.........

"
.........

We're aware of the plan-making.

And the aware can adjust the course of action. And the typing of, "is that so?", is the aware-adjust together. Beyond this there is really nothing. There is nothing to be said. So, what makes you speak out?

"
.........

not caused

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Reply from emancipate
Nov.09.2008
05:29AM EDT 
vertical line Quote: "
.........

not caused

"
.........

So what if the system is deterministic? As far as I can tell, I am a part of the system. As is my decision making. As is my pain. As is my emotion. Pleasure please. No other realistic aspiration.

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Reply from emancipate
Nov.09.2008
05:32AM EDT 
vertical line What I am: my decisions, actions, and motivations to be selfish: this is the system at work. As long as I remain selfish, the "I" will be pleased. What else can you suggest?
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 89420
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Reply from lehish
Nov.09.2008
06:06AM EDT 
Email lehish
vertical line Quote: "Quote: "
.........

not caused

"
.........

So what if the system is deterministic? As far as I can tell, I am a part of the system. As is my decision making. As is my pain. As is my emotion. Pleasure please. No other realistic aspiration.

"
.........

can as though 'spearate' process ?

"
.........

So what if the system is deterministic? As far as I can tell, I am a part of the system. As is my decision making. As is my pain. As is my emotion. Pleasure please. No other realistic aspiration.

"
.........

can as though 'spearate' process ?

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Reply from zen-zen
Nov.09.2008
07:00AM EDT 
vertical line The difference between strategy and tactics:

Strategy is something that you decide about the future and then forget about it.

Tactics is something that you do in the here-and-now to make the strategy come true.

After a while you revise the strategy and then go on with tactics again. And the big wheel keeps turning.
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 89424
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Reply from ______
Nov.09.2008
09:24AM EDT 
vertical line Ok.

Didn't sleep much last night - bed at midnight - gave up and got up at 3.00 am.  Thought I'd get on with some work - looked in on zenguide wrote beautiful some hours later then went back to bed for a few hours. 

How was it for you?
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Reply from ______
Nov.09.2008
09:25AM EDT 
vertical line I'm planning a bowel movement shortly, how about you?
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 89433
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Reply from zen-zen
Nov.09.2008
01:34PM EDT 
vertical line I have pain in my finger. I burned it in the oven.
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 89442
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Reply from ______
Nov.09.2008
02:05PM EDT 
vertical line Did you hold your finger under cold running water?
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 89448
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Reply from Rebecca
Nov.09.2008
03:27PM EDT 
Email Rebecca
vertical line Quote: "don't make it too hard. you dont need to be smart and you dont need to understand.  it seems that some people here are after swapping ideas, swapping pats on the back, and getting a kick out of going back and fourth with ideas that are taken seriously by some, and not by others--to make them see it their way, dismantle words, and pick up knowledge for their goodie bag of phrases.  don't take it personally--because there isnt anyone there behind the words.




are you aware?

do you have awareness?

or are-you-what-is-aware?

does that ever change?

do you become more aware?

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

see that what you are IS 'just aware' and doesnt 'become' more aware at any time

that's the beginning and the end of your endeavor

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

waking up: aware? yes

eating breakfast: aware? yes

working: aware? yes

eating dinner: aware? yes

showering: aware? yes

laying down in bed to rest: aware? yes

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

you are not aware of "time"

the idea of "time" is a present idea

the above phrase is redundant because ideas can only appear in the present

~~~~~~


"aware"  "enter zen from there"
"
......... Yah
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Reply from noumenal
Nov.09.2008
04:50PM EDT 
Email noumenal
vertical line You ask a sincere question and get insincere game-playing. It happens over and over in these posts. 
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 89453
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Reply from 9999999
Nov.09.2008
05:16PM EDT 
Email 9999999
vertical line it might seem that way


maybe we know we cant help
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 89454
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Reply from emancipate
Nov.09.2008
06:17PM EDT 
vertical line Quote: "
.........

can as though 'spearate' process ?

"
.........

Continued survival and meaningful existence requires separation. Separation is inherent and non-optional. Otherwise it's insanity.

The talker is the witness is the controller. He keeps his feelings to himself as though he is separate. Unless we're talking about the not -so-closed physical system, he is separate.

If not 'separate' (if not mine), your conception of determinism seems to degrade into fatalism.

As ever, to bring about positive change to individuals.

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Reply from lehish
Nov.09.2008
11:19PM EDT 
Email lehish
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Quote: "You ask a sincere question and get insincere game-playing. It happens over and over in these posts. "
.........

yesss

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Reply from lehish
Nov.09.2008
11:20PM EDT 
Email lehish
vertical line

Quote: "it might seem that way


maybe we know we cant help
"
.........

was it said in the post you could help it ?

vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 89459
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Reply from lehish
Nov.09.2008
11:22PM EDT 
Email lehish
vertical line Quote: "Quote: "
.........

can as though 'spearate' process ?

"
.........

Continued survival and meaningful existence requires separation. Separation is inherent and non-optional. Otherwise it's insanity.

The talker is the witness is the controller. He keeps his feelings to himself as though he is separate. Unless we're talking about the not -so-closed physical system, he is separate.

If not 'separate' (if not mine), your conception of determinism seems to degrade into fatalism.

As ever, to bring about positive change to individuals.

"
.........

what are you ideaing as though can separate ?


.........

can as though 'spearate' process ?

"
.........

Continued survival and meaningful existence requires separation. Separation is inherent and non-optional. Otherwise it's insanity.

The talker is the witness is the controller. He keeps his feelings to himself as though he is separate. Unless we're talking about the not -so-closed physical system, he is separate.

If not 'separate' (if not mine), your conception of determinism seems to degrade into fatalism.

As ever, to bring about positive change to individuals.

"
.........

what are you ideaing as though can separate ?

"
.........

Continued survival and meaningful existence requires separation. Separation is inherent and non-optional. Otherwise it's insanity.

The talker is the witness is the controller. He keeps his feelings to himself as though he is separate. Unless we're talking about the not -so-closed physical system, he is separate.

If not 'separate' (if not mine), your conception of determinism seems to degrade into fatalism.

As ever, to bring about positive change to individuals.

"
.........

what are you ideaing as though can separate ?

vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 89460
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Reply from Rebecca
Nov.10.2008
01:28AM EDT 
Email Rebecca
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Quote: "it might seem that way


maybe we know we cant help
"
....But you can............

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Reply from Rebecca
Nov.10.2008
01:34AM EDT 
Email Rebecca
vertical line

Quote: "You ask a sincere question and get insincere game-playing. It happens over and over in these posts. "
.........

Dont know if I ll last in this.....Ive never been good in crowds.....

Another paradox it seemed to me.... Live in the moment....but plan to live in the future.....Like how you pointed out the irony of ...two people can join together so one will disappear..... What a trip....thanks all

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Reply from emancipate
Nov.10.2008
01:57AM EDT 
vertical line Quote: "
.........

what are you ideaing as though can separate ?

"
.........

Should I not reason?

To reason - to act intentionally - objects and things must appear in the mind.

The question is sometimes about pain. Sometimes about pleasure. The ultimate impulse-lead reason for existence is minimize pain and maximize pleasure, right?

For this to happen, I have to be around. So does lots of other stuff.
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Reply from 9999999
Nov.10.2008
02:14AM EDT 
Email 9999999
vertical line Quote: "

Quote: "it might seem that way


maybe we know we cant help
"
....But you can............

"
.........

what do you understand about awareness?
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 89474
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Reply from lehish
Nov.10.2008
02:42AM EDT 
Email lehish
vertical line Quote: "Quote: "
.........

what are you ideaing as though can separate ?

"
.........

Should I not reason?

To reason - to act intentionally - objects and things must appear in the mind.

The question is sometimes about pain. Sometimes about pleasure. The ultimate impulse-lead reason for existence is minimize pain and maximize pleasure, right?

For this to happen, I have to be around. So does lots of other stuff.
"
.........

"
.........

Should I not reason?

To reason - to act intentionally - objects and things must appear in the mind.

The question is sometimes about pain. Sometimes about pleasure. The ultimate impulse-lead reason for existence is minimize pain and maximize pleasure, right?

For this to happen, I have to be around. So does lots of other stuff.
"
.........

reason what ? ...what reason ?

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Reply from Rebecca
Nov.10.2008
02:59AM EDT 
Email Rebecca
vertical line Quote: "Quote: "

Quote: "it might seem that way


maybe we know we cant help
"
....But you can............

"
.........

what do you understand about awareness?
"
......... That you and I are not...

"
.........

what do you understand about awareness?
"
......... That you and I are not...

What do you understand of a zen master?

What do you understand of teacher

Sometimes the breeze is faint and the breath of others blows under our wings

Sometimes the wind is blowing and the silence is needed under our wings

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Reply from emancipate
Nov.10.2008
03:03AM EDT 
vertical line Quote: "
.........

reason what ? ...what reason ?

"
.........

I'm not sure I get what you're saying. Something, for sure. But I wish more that I knew what I was saying. ;)

Thought-nouns and emotions coming and going.

I can reflect on why I actually went to buy groceries instead of putting on a clown costume and doing a hand-stand... I don't know. What reasons?

I think the experience of meaningful existence is much more classically intuitive than the romances some sell.

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Reply from emancipate
Nov.10.2008
03:32AM EDT 
vertical line 11. Back to basics

A zen nun became very famous in Japan for her ability to help people. Many people went to see her with their problems and ask her advice. Most of these people only needed to see her once - rarely did they have to come back a second time.

She was asked what was her secret - what it was that she told these people that came to her for help.

She replied, "I don't understand what all this fuss is about - it is very simple. The first time someone comes to me I ask them 'Have you cleaned your house?' and if they come a second time I ask them 'Have you done your washing?'"
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 89480
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Reply from 9999999
Nov.10.2008
06:52AM EDT 
Email 9999999
vertical line Quote: "Quote: "Quote: "

Quote: "it might seem that way


maybe we know we cant help
"
....But you can............

"
.........

what do you understand about awareness?
"
......... That you and I are not...

"
.........

what do you understand about awareness?
"
......... That you and I are not...

What do you understand of a zen master?

What do you understand of teacher

Sometimes the breeze is faint and the breath of others blows under our wings

Sometimes the wind is blowing and the silence is needed under our wings

"
.........

ignore what thoughts say about life, awareness, consciousness,  zen--and look at the floor on which those thoughts stand on.  just LOOK and it's there

easier done than said (thought about)
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Reply from ______
Nov.10.2008
11:56AM EDT 
vertical line Quote: "

Quote: "it might seem that way


maybe we know we cant help
"
....But you can............

"
.........

One may say that he or she has been helped by another, by what another has said, written, done, but the helping is that one has helped him or herself.  


The ill and infirm can be helped directly, helped to stand and walk, to eat and drink, to be comfortable, to be loved. 


My mother-in-law who suffers from Alzheimer's broke her hip recently and requires physical and emotional support, love and attention from those around her. 

vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 89512
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Reply from Lynnoh
Nov.10.2008
12:08PM EDT 
Email Lynnoh
vertical line

Quote: "But how do you plan for the future..... if your in the now?"
.........

you just do

vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 89513
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Reply from Lynnoh
Nov.10.2008
12:09PM EDT 
Email Lynnoh
vertical line Quote: "Quote: "

Quote: "it might seem that way


maybe we know we cant help
"
....But you can............

"
.........

One may say that he or she has been helped by another, by what another has said, written, done, but the helping is that one has helped him or herself.  


The ill and infirm can be helped directly, helped to stand and walk, to eat and drink, to be comfortable, to be loved. 


My mother-in-law who suffers from Alzheimer's broke her hip recently and requires physical and emotional support, love and attention from those around her. 

"
.........

"
.........

Rustic, give her my best .

vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 89514
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Reply from Rebecca
Nov.10.2008
01:39PM EDT 
Email Rebecca
vertical line Quote: "Quote: "

Quote: "it might seem that way


maybe we know we cant help
"
....But you can............

"
.........

One may say that he or she has been helped by another, by what another has said, written, done, but the helping is that one has helped him or herself.  


The ill and infirm can be helped directly, helped to stand and walk, to eat and drink, to be comfortable, to be loved. 


My mother-in-law who suffers from Alzheimer's broke her hip recently and requires physical and emotional support, love and attention from those around her. 

"
......... yes....a concept I understand clearly....apply to the kids regularily......helped is really the wrong word here.....These words keep getting in the way

"
......... yes....a concept I understand clearly....apply to the kids regularily......helped is really the wrong word here.....These words keep getting in the way

vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 89515
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Reply from ______
Nov.10.2008
05:54PM EDT 
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Quote: "it might seem that way


maybe we know we cant help
"
....But you can............

"
.........

One may say that he or she has been helped by another, by what another has said, written, done, but the helping is that one has helped him or herself.  


The ill and infirm can be helped directly, helped to stand and walk, to eat and drink, to be comfortable, to be loved. 


My mother-in-law who suffers from Alzheimer's broke her hip recently and requires physical and emotional support, love and attention from those around her. 

"
.........

"
.........

Rustic, give her my best .

"
.........

It's done.
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Reply from ______
Nov.10.2008
06:00PM EDT 
vertical line Quote: "Quote: "Quote: "

Quote: "it might seem that way


maybe we know we cant help
"
....But you can............

"
.........

One may say that he or she has been helped by another, by what another has said, written, done, but the helping is that one has helped him or herself.  


The ill and infirm can be helped directly, helped to stand and walk, to eat and drink, to be comfortable, to be loved. 


My mother-in-law who suffers from Alzheimer's broke her hip recently and requires physical and emotional support, love and attention from those around her. 

"
......... yes....a concept I understand clearly....apply to the kids regularily......helped is really the wrong word here.....These words keep getting in the way

"
......... yes....a concept I understand clearly....apply to the kids regularily......helped is really the wrong word here.....These words keep getting in the way

"
.........


Words as representations of the real thing, may be to some, like making a picture of one's god.  
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Reply from immortal 1
Nov.11.2008
07:05AM EDT 
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Everything says...live in the moment...But I have to live in my future.....Confuses me.   Rebecca

Anyone who picks rice plans to eat it.  And what simpler act is there than that?

I do have plans, and I plan for contingencies as much as I can, within reason.  Have not exactly got it all worked out for the enevitable meteorite strike or volcanic eruption, but you cannot plan for everything.

Maybe the trick is that you cannot let your plans interfere with real life.  Things change constantly, so your plans and contingencies much change constantly also.



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Reply from ______
Nov.11.2008
07:16AM EDT 
vertical line T r i c k s
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Reply from zen-zen
Nov.22.2008
08:57AM EDT 
vertical line Oh, it's now!
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