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  One day a Vinaya master asked a Zen master:
-How should one practice Tao?
The Zen master replied:
-Eat when you are hungry, sleep when you are tired.
The Vinaya master said:
-Most people do that.
The Zen master... continue...

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→→→→ vertical line TOPIC: I FEEL TIRED
vertical line Posted on Nov.13.2008 @ 05:23AM EDT by immortal 1

I feel tired.  Dischord is unpleasant and wearing, so I will take a break for awhile and return at a later date.

Thanks to all.

Namaste


Go to Latest Reply   Reply to this Topic
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Reply from zen-zen
Nov.13.2008
09:47AM EDT 
vertical line The keyboard is sweet. So, 'till we meet again.
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 89668
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Reply from -----0
Nov.14.2008
03:03PM EDT 
vertical line when you feel better, come back to relax
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 89679
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Reply from emancipate
Nov.15.2008
05:56AM EDT 
vertical line The word-letter arrangement is "discord". Jesus. I can barely understand you some of the time.

Random.
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Reply from immortal 1
Nov.18.2008
07:00AM EDT 
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Thank you.  I popped in briefly and appreciate your parting words. 

When I start running into negativity it is time to go.  I do not want to be like a dung beetle fighting over a piece of crap.

I simply want to retire to my private meditation, and leave you to yours, as I have done the last few days.  It is much more pleasant.  A Zen Monk really does not need anything except his or her practice, and actually not even that.  Not the Sun, or the Moon, or even air to breathe.  Not even life itself, or death, have further value.

This forum is good for beginners, and this site is a good bookstore of learning about Zen Buddhism.  But the forum is not Zen Buddhist, and in many respects is as much Anti-Zen as Pro-Zen. 

This is also good for beginners, I suppose.  Except perhaps that some posters here should be more up-front about representing other faiths, like Aethism, Shamanism, or Christianity, instead of just putting out unqualified negative comments about Zen Buddhist concepts and principles.

And that level of tolerance says a lot for Zen Buddhism.  Those who post here who are not Zen Buddhists, and/or who post negatively regarding Zen Buddhism should go to Christianforums.com and do some posting over there.  I do not think they would get such a warm reception there. 

vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 89786
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Reply from lehish
Nov.18.2008
07:40AM EDT 
Email lehish
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Quote:

the d.o.m.:
Mr. Hermit,
The d.o.m. has never thought that anyone who came to this place could take anything away from it at all. Because, if something which really belongs to it, nobody can take it away. And if something which really does not belong to it, nobody can take it away either. So, do not worry too much about anything. Just take your time to come and go as you like.

vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 89787
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Reply from kelvintan
Nov.18.2008
11:34AM EDT 
Email kelvintan
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It Means Many Other Religious Thinkers Are Learning

more about  Buddhist Teachings openess here.

Middle Path - The Moderate Way Of Life

With Metta

vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 89788
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Reply from ______
Nov.18.2008
11:47AM EDT 
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Quote: "

I feel tired.  Dischord is unpleasant and wearing, so I will take a break for awhile and return at a later date.

Thanks to all.

Namaste"

..............

Quote:
"

Thank you.  I popped in briefly and appreciate your parting words. 

When I start running into negativity it is time to go.  I do not want to be like a dung beetle fighting over a piece of crap.

I simply want to retire to my private meditation, and leave you to yours, as I have done the last few days.  It is much more pleasant.  A Zen Monk really does not need anything except his or her practice, and actually not even that.  Not the Sun, or the Moon, or even air to breathe.  Not even life itself, or death, have further value.

This forum is good for beginners, and this site is a good bookstore of learning about Zen Buddhism.  But the forum is not Zen Buddhist, and in many respects is as much Anti-Zen as Pro-Zen. 

This is also good for beginners, I suppose.  Except perhaps that some posters here should be more up-front about representing other faiths, like Aethism, Shamanism, or Christianity, instead of just putting out unqualified negative comments about Zen Buddhist concepts and principles.

And that level of tolerance says a lot for Zen Buddhism.  Those who post here who are not Zen Buddhists, and/or who post negatively regarding Zen Buddhism should go to Christianforums.com and do some posting over there.  I do not think they would get such a warm reception there. "

.........


After Namaste, you popped in briefly for some discord - your suffering is self-inflicted - unqualified negative comments emanating from your posts; the only negativity you’re running into is yours - a negativity which skews your interpretation of any dialogue.  You say that you do not want to be like a dung-beetle fighting over a piece of crap and yet you act like you’re looking for a piece of crap to fight over.  You say you are a zen buddhist, a zen monk, you label posts as shamanism, atheism, thisism, thatism, this poster as that, that poster as this because they don’t talk about practice - this forum as anti-zen, not pro zen - go to another forum, you say, and find no warm reception - is this because you found no warm reception over there at christianforums.com?  What kind of zen is it which is dependent upon up front announcements about the what and the who of who you think you are, what someone has attained, how you think things should be?  You’re more like a whining judgementalist who can’t get his own way, or one of those wooden swords that looks real for as long as it stays in the scabbard than an honest to goodness dung-beetle fighting over a piece of crap.  Have you ever stopped to listen to what you’re saying? Is there really any heart in a single word you say?  Or do you just feel relieved after your [latest] cyber-dump?  If it’s the latter, and you do believe in the truth of what you’re saying, then being the good and tired zen buddhist monk you keep on telling everyone you think you are, you should quit crying and go to sleep.

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Reply from kelvintan
Nov.18.2008
12:43PM EDT 
Email kelvintan
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Love the old if you are young

Only with the Power of words

Value of a man is in his giving

Everyone needs to be valued

With Metta

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Reply from Rebecca
Nov.18.2008
02:19PM EDT 
Email Rebecca
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May I?....

compassion

open the door always

meaning in all experience

purity of intent

ahhhhhhhhh

splat

splat again

inspiration by sharing

one at moments

never let go..never hold on

vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 89791
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Reply from -----0
Nov.19.2008
12:52PM EDT 
vertical line Finding peace in an isolated environment may be comforting. However, it is worth testing it also in real life. If this forum knocks you down, there are still few things you have to work on.
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 89811
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Reply from immortal 1
Nov.26.2008
07:23AM EDT 
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Quote: "Finding peace in an isolated environment may be comforting. However, it is worth testing it also in real life. If this forum knocks you down, there are still few things you have to work on."
.........

It was never about that.  No up, no down.  Just around.  I've never had anything to gain or lose here.  There is nothing to work on.

I have hoped to help beginners get started on the path of Zen.  Aside from that I have not wanted anything here, except perhaps fellowship with other zen monks. 

But there aren't any zen monks here.  So I have just returned to my own meditation, in solitude, and that is fine too.  We are always alone, we are just not always aware of it.

vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 89974
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Reply from immortal 1
Nov.26.2008
07:36AM EDT 
vertical line Quote: "
Quote: "

I feel tired.  Dischord is unpleasant and wearing, so I will take a break for awhile and return at a later date.

Thanks to all.

Namaste"

..............

Quote:
"

Thank you.  I popped in briefly and appreciate your parting words. 

When I start running into negativity it is time to go.  I do not want to be like a dung beetle fighting over a piece of crap.

I simply want to retire to my private meditation, and leave you to yours, as I have done the last few days.  It is much more pleasant.  A Zen Monk really does not need anything except his or her practice, and actually not even that.  Not the Sun, or the Moon, or even air to breathe.  Not even life itself, or death, have further value.

This forum is good for beginners, and this site is a good bookstore of learning about Zen Buddhism.  But the forum is not Zen Buddhist, and in many respects is as much Anti-Zen as Pro-Zen. 

This is also good for beginners, I suppose.  Except perhaps that some posters here should be more up-front about representing other faiths, like Aethism, Shamanism, or Christianity, instead of just putting out unqualified negative comments about Zen Buddhist concepts and principles.

And that level of tolerance says a lot for Zen Buddhism.  Those who post here who are not Zen Buddhists, and/or who post negatively regarding Zen Buddhism should go to Christianforums.com and do some posting over there.  I do not think they would get such a warm reception there. "

.........


After Namaste, you popped in briefly for some discord - your suffering is self-inflicted - unqualified negative comments emanating from your posts; the only negativity you’re running into is yours - a negativity which skews your interpretation of any dialogue.  You say that you do not want to be like a dung-beetle fighting over a piece of crap and yet you act like you’re looking for a piece of crap to fight over.  You say you are a zen buddhist, a zen monk, you label posts as shamanism, atheism, thisism, thatism, this poster as that, that poster as this because they don’t talk about practice - this forum as anti-zen, not pro zen - go to another forum, you say, and find no warm reception - is this because you found no warm reception over there at christianforums.com?  What kind of zen is it which is dependent upon up front announcements about the what and the who of who you think you are, what someone has attained, how you think things should be?  You’re more like a whining judgementalist who can’t get his own way, or one of those wooden swords that looks real for as long as it stays in the scabbard than an honest to goodness dung-beetle fighting over a piece of crap.  Have you ever stopped to listen to what you’re saying? Is there really any heart in a single word you say?  Or do you just feel relieved after your [latest] cyber-dump?  If it’s the latter, and you do believe in the truth of what you’re saying, then being the good and tired zen buddhist monk you keep on telling everyone you think you are, you should quit crying and go to sleep.

"
.........

"
.........

As a Shaman, you have a valid beef with me, Rustic.

I did not attain awakening along the Buddhist path.  I was a Shaman.  I have had experiences of power that would probably curl your toenails.  (By the way, Mr Crow, the Spirit Animal that emerged from the crack between the worlds to meet me was an Eagle the size of a man.)

But after awakening, I saw that all of these experiences of power, in terms of The Abosolute, were mere delusions.  So when The Spirit called me into service I declined.  But The Spirit already knew that I would do that.  It was just to make it official. 

I had gone as far as I could go along the Shaman path.  All paths lead to the top of the mountain, and there is only one mountain top:  The Absolute.  From there you can just sit on the top of the mountain, or take flight, whichever you prefer.  It does not matter. 

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Reply from immortal 1
Nov.26.2008
07:45AM EDT 
vertical line Quote: "

Quote:

the d.o.m.:
Mr. Hermit,
The d.o.m. has never thought that anyone who came to this place could take anything away from it at all. Because, if something which really belongs to it, nobody can take it away. And if something which really does not belong to it, nobody can take it away either. So, do not worry too much about anything. Just take your time to come and go as you like.

"
.........

"
.........

If you make a toy boat, outfit it with paper sails, and then gently push it away from the bank into the current, it does not matter what happens to it because, after all, it is just a toy boat.

I merely meant to say that this site should not use the title ZenGuide because it is not about Zen Buddhism.  The Forum is interesting in its own way, but it is not a guide to Zen Buddhism by any means.

People who google Zen and end up here should be advised of that.

vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 89976
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Reply from ______
Nov.26.2008
08:49AM EDT 
vertical line Quote: "Quote: "
Quote: "

I feel tired.  Dischord is unpleasant and wearing, so I will take a break for awhile and return at a later date.

Thanks to all.

Namaste"

..............

Quote:
"

Thank you.  I popped in briefly and appreciate your parting words. 

When I start running into negativity it is time to go.  I do not want to be like a dung beetle fighting over a piece of crap.

I simply want to retire to my private meditation, and leave you to yours, as I have done the last few days.  It is much more pleasant.  A Zen Monk really does not need anything except his or her practice, and actually not even that.  Not the Sun, or the Moon, or even air to breathe.  Not even life itself, or death, have further value.

This forum is good for beginners, and this site is a good bookstore of learning about Zen Buddhism.  But the forum is not Zen Buddhist, and in many respects is as much Anti-Zen as Pro-Zen. 

This is also good for beginners, I suppose.  Except perhaps that some posters here should be more up-front about representing other faiths, like Aethism, Shamanism, or Christianity, instead of just putting out unqualified negative comments about Zen Buddhist concepts and principles.

And that level of tolerance says a lot for Zen Buddhism.  Those who post here who are not Zen Buddhists, and/or who post negatively regarding Zen Buddhism should go to Christianforums.com and do some posting over there.  I do not think they would get such a warm reception there. "

.........


After Namaste, you popped in briefly for some discord - your suffering is self-inflicted - unqualified negative comments emanating from your posts; the only negativity you’re running into is yours - a negativity which skews your interpretation of any dialogue.  You say that you do not want to be like a dung-beetle fighting over a piece of crap and yet you act like you’re looking for a piece of crap to fight over.  You say you are a zen buddhist, a zen monk, you label posts as shamanism, atheism, thisism, thatism, this poster as that, that poster as this because they don’t talk about practice - this forum as anti-zen, not pro zen - go to another forum, you say, and find no warm reception - is this because you found no warm reception over there at christianforums.com?  What kind of zen is it which is dependent upon up front announcements about the what and the who of who you think you are, what someone has attained, how you think things should be?  You’re more like a whining judgementalist who can’t get his own way, or one of those wooden swords that looks real for as long as it stays in the scabbard than an honest to goodness dung-beetle fighting over a piece of crap.  Have you ever stopped to listen to what you’re saying? Is there really any heart in a single word you say?  Or do you just feel relieved after your [latest] cyber-dump?  If it’s the latter, and you do believe in the truth of what you’re saying, then being the good and tired zen buddhist monk you keep on telling everyone you think you are, you should quit crying and go to sleep.

"
.........

"
.........

As a Shaman, you have a valid beef with me, Rustic.

I did not attain awakening along the Buddhist path.  I was a Shaman.  I have had experiences of power that would probably curl your toenails.  (By the way, Mr Crow, the Spirit Animal that emerged from the crack between the worlds to meet me was an Eagle the size of a man.)

But after awakening, I saw that all of these experiences of power, in terms of The Abosolute, were mere delusions.  So when The Spirit called me into service I declined.  But The Spirit already knew that I would do that.  It was just to make it official. 

I had gone as far as I could go along the Shaman path.  All paths lead to the top of the mountain, and there is only one mountain top:  The Absolute.  From there you can just sit on the top of the mountain, or take flight, whichever you prefer.  It does not matter. 

"
.........

Ok.

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Reply from emancipate
Nov.26.2008
08:51AM EDT 
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In your crevice you have found the bones of the dead Buddha.

May we all be half as blessed with such a praiseworthy eventuality.

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Reply from -----0
Nov.26.2008
12:10PM EDT 
vertical line Immortal1, could you describe a typical daily routine of your monastic life?
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 89984
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Reply from lehish
Nov.26.2008
08:54PM EDT 
Email lehish
vertical line Quote: "

Quote: "Finding peace in an isolated environment may be comforting. However, it is worth testing it also in real life. If this forum knocks you down, there are still few things you have to work on."
.........

It was never about that.  No up, no down.  Just around.  I've never had anything to gain or lose here.  There is nothing to work on.

I have hoped to help beginners get started on the path of Zen.  Aside from that I have not wanted anything here, except perhaps fellowship with other zen monks. 

But there aren't any zen monks here.  So I have just returned to my own meditation, in solitude, and that is fine too.  We are always alone, we are just not always aware of it.

"
.........

"
.........

zen monk ?  ...is there a purpose limiting ?

vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 89993
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Reply from lehish
Nov.26.2008
08:58PM EDT 
Email lehish
vertical line Quote: "Quote: "

Quote:

the d.o.m.:
Mr. Hermit,
The d.o.m. has never thought that anyone who came to this place could take anything away from it at all. Because, if something which really belongs to it, nobody can take it away. And if something which really does not belong to it, nobody can take it away either. So, do not worry too much about anything. Just take your time to come and go as you like.

"
.........

"
.........

If you make a toy boat, outfit it with paper sails, and then gently push it away from the bank into the current, it does not matter what happens to it because, after all, it is just a toy boat.

I merely meant to say that this site should not use the title ZenGuide because it is not about Zen Buddhism.  The Forum is interesting in its own way, but it is not a guide to Zen Buddhism by any means.

People who google Zen and end up here should be advised of that.

"
.........

"
.........

depends on you're definition of 'guide'

vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 89994
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Reply from ______
Nov.27.2008
08:30AM EDT 
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Mr Immortal 1, well, I had a good look, and a listen for the discord and the beef.  There's nothing more to say about the discord but the beef you have seems to be with the owners and administrators of this site, in particular their use of the name ZenGuide. Now, your concern for the beginner is ostensibly a noble one, however, should said beginner, as you say, google Zen, end up here and find themselves being led down the path by a HatSize, I would hope that they had sufficient nous to seek a second opinion.


To return to your non-nutritious beef:


DISCUSSION FORUM 
» topic list   » start a new topic   » zenguide.com chat

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The discussion forum aims to spark discussions and to provide fellow buddhists and non-buddhists a means to discuss issues relevant to zen and buddhism. If you have specific questions about zenguide.com, or distressed about other unrelated issues, please contact us directly. This forum is mediated. Innappropriate posts will be removed per the moderators' discretion.



Cut through the back-pain anguish and the sorrow - please accept the offer from the administrators of this site to contact [them] directly about your distress.


In the meantime, tell me about Jesus and Lucifer.


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Reply from kelvintan
Nov.28.2008
11:04PM EDT 
Email kelvintan
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O immortal 1 without what is happening around you and with thoughts in meditation, it helps one to understand the true nature of mind.

In Meditating Mindfully One Rightly Truly Accomplish  Living in the moment without physically withdrawn from your surroundings.

May you be well and happy

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Reply from Rebecca
Nov.29.2008
01:19AM EDT 
Email Rebecca
vertical line Quote: "

O immortal 1 without what is happening around you and with thoughts in meditation, it helps one to understand the true nature of mind.

In Meditating Mindfully One Rightly Truly Accomplish  Living in the moment without physically withdrawn from your surroundings.

May you be well and hap


......... The challenge....yes....
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Reply from Rebecca
Nov.29.2008
01:24AM EDT 
Email Rebecca
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Thats sooo hard.....but right.....what a test life is. Im learning that.Thank you K.

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Reply from kelvintan
Dec.01.2008
08:12AM EDT 
Email kelvintan
vertical line Quote: "

Thats sooo hard.....but right.....what a test life is. Im learning that.Thank you K.

"
.........

"
.........

Realization Explains Beings Existence Causes Condtions Arising

to a whole mass of suffering

                                  Realization

 

“When this exists, that exists; this arising, that arises. When this does not exist, that does

not exist; this ceasing, that ceases.”(imasmin sati idam hoti, imassuppada idam uppajjati.

imasmin asati idam  na hoti, imassa nirodha idam nirujjhati).The reference is particularly

to the origin of suffering (dukkha) and the cessation of suffering (i.e.nibbana,nirvana).

 

The Buddha refers to the means for realizing this principle as “the ancient way of the

noble (enlightened) ones”. It is his noble eightfold way, the way leading to knowledge of

the four noble truths, or of conditioned genesis.

 

After having discovered and fully realized the dharma of conditioned genesis in his

meditation, the Buddha says:

 

…thus I have attained to the ancient way of the noble (enlightened) ones: … right view,

right aim, right speech, right action, right livelihood, right effort, right mindfulness, right

concentrative meditation…I have gone along this path and seen aging-and-death, the

origin of aging-and-death, the ceasing of aging –and-death, the path leading to the

ceasing of aging-and-death. In the same way, I have fully come to know birth…,

becoming…, attachment…, craving…, feeling…, contact…, the six sense-spheres…,

name-and-material form…, consciousness…, activities, the origin of activities, the

ceasing of activities, the path leading to the ceasing of activities.

 

Dependent Origination

(1)        Conditioned by ignorance (avijja), activities (samkhara) arise (or exist);

(2)        Conditioned by activities. consciousness (vinnana) arise;

(3)        Conditioned by consciousness, name-and-material form (nama-rupa) arise;

(4)        Conditioned by name-and-material form, the six sense-spheres (salayatana)   

          arise;

(5)        Conditioned by the six sense-spheres, contact (phassa) arise;

(6)        Conditioned by contact, feeling (vedana) arises;

(7)        Conditioned by feeling, craving (tanha) arises;

(8)        Conditioned by craving, attachment (upadana) arises;

         (9)      Conditioned by attachment, becoming (bhava) arises;

   (10)    Conditioned by becoming, birth (jati) arises;

   (11)    Conditioned by birth arise

   (12)    Aging-and-death, along with grief, lamentation, pain, depression and

              despair (jara-marana-soka-parideva-dukkha-domanassa-upayasa); thus

              arises (exits)  the  whole mass of suffering.

 

In reverse order- the cessation of suffering: when this does not exit, that does not exist – the twelve factors are: Conditioned by the ceasing of ignorance, activities cease; conditioned by the ceasing of activities, consciousness ceases; … thus ceases the whole mass of suffering.

 

Shared by Kelvin Tan

With Metta

1/12/2008.

 

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Reply from -----0
Dec.01.2008
11:02AM EDT 
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one can either taste it

or read about how it tastes

vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 90061
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Reply from kelvintan
Dec.01.2008
11:32AM EDT 
Email kelvintan
vertical line Quote: "

one can either taste it

or read about how it tastes

"
.........

"
.........

One develops its taste.

With Metta

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Reply from zen-zen
Dec.02.2008
05:34AM EDT 
vertical line Quote: "

One develops its taste.

With Metta

"
.........

"
.........

Sirs, should not everything be fine as long as there is only the taste and absolutely nothing else? Because only then could one say that there is no negligence in the taste.

Negligence indeed produces a hoard of difficulties. One of the numerous difficulties is our preference towards complex and refined solutions over simple ones.

Coulinarism, for example, could be discussed in this context. Does the food taste different in a coulinaristic person's mouth? A simple, unrefined mind does not know the subleties of fine foods. A simple mind is content with whatever food it tastes.

Does the mouth of a coulinarist add or remove something from the taste of foods to make the food different? Surely the molecularic structure of the food is not altered by the individual preferences of the taster at the time of chewing and gulping.

Is it so that if one's individual interpretation (neglect) is removed from the play then even a coulinarist could enjoy the taste of simple food of no particular taste?

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Reply from kelvintan
Dec.02.2008
11:25AM EDT 
Email kelvintan
vertical line Quote: "Quote: "

One develops its taste.

With Metta

"
.........

"
.........

Sirs, should not everything be fine as long as there is only the taste and absolutely nothing else? Because only then could one say that there is no negligence in the taste.

Negligence indeed produces a hoard of difficulties. One of the numerous difficulties is our preference towards complex and refined solutions over simple ones.

Coulinarism, for example, could be discussed in this context. Does the food taste different in a coulinaristic person's mouth? A simple, unrefined mind does not know the subleties of fine foods. A simple mind is content with whatever food it tastes.

Does the mouth of a coulinarist add or remove something from the taste of foods to make the food different? Surely the molecularic structure of the food is not altered by the individual preferences of the taster at the time of chewing and gulping.

Is it so that if one's individual interpretation (neglect) is removed from the play then even a coulinarist could enjoy the taste of simple food of no particular taste?

"
.........

"
.........

Zen tastes Zen Consciousness Zen Mind discern

Like flavour which is the object of taste, you need a tongue-consciousness to help you know flavour with mind-consciousness.

With Metta

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Reply from ______
Dec.02.2008
11:40AM EDT 
vertical line Just be grateful for the soup . . . schluuuuurp, ooh . . .  I know I am.
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Reply from -----0
Dec.02.2008
03:47PM EDT 
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it was supposed to be posted here, so once more:

by developing consciousness, you get to higher levels of consciousness
but that is not the way to enlightenment

enlightenment is right here, no matter how rough your taste is

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Reply from kelvintan
Dec.02.2008
07:36PM EDT 
Email kelvintan
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O the mind that is fully developed in morality, concentration and wisdom  is free from the taints of lust, becoming, wrong views and ignorance.

ENLIGHTEN I AM NOT

With  Metta

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Reply from zen-zen
Dec.03.2008
04:32AM EDT 
vertical line Whereas words fail us insight has a chance of succeeding.
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Reply from immortal 1
Dec.03.2008
06:58AM EDT 
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I do not have a problem with this discussion forum as long as those who come here to see if they would like to embark on a path of Zen Buddhism know that those who post here are not all Zen Buddhists.

There are a few, but mostly not.  Still the discussion is interesting in its own way.

A Zen Monk in a monastery lives by specific rules of conduct.  Outside the monastery, whether in an apartment in the city, or a shack in the wilderness, one merely walks the razor's edge as best one can.

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Reply from zen-zen
Dec.03.2008
08:44AM EDT 
vertical line Immortal1: When walking a man places his foot in front of each other. A step, another, third and so on. A monk's step goes on in the monastery. A priest's step goes on in the church. Farmer's step goes on on the field or in the barn. Origin of the man or the dogma he follows matter not.

Let us welcome those who call themselves Zen Buddhists.
Let us welcome those who call themselves Christians
Let us welcome those who call themselves representatives of any dogma

Let us welcome those who call themselves atheists Let us welcome even those who haven't got a word to describe the group where their 'I' belongs to.

For the step of each of those persons is the same.
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Reply from ______
Dec.03.2008
09:54AM EDT 
vertical line Dearly beloved, we are gathered here today . . .  to  . . . er . . .  um . . . well . . . yes . . .er
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Reply from -----0
Dec.03.2008
10:51AM EDT 
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Quote: "Immortal1: When walking a man places his foot in front of each other. A step, another, third and so on. A monk's step goes on in the monastery. A priest's step goes on in the church. Farmer's step goes on on the field or in the barn. Origin of the man or the dogma he follows matter not.

Let us welcome those who call themselves Zen Buddhists.
Let us welcome those who call themselves Christians
Let us welcome those who call themselves representatives of any dogma

Let us welcome those who call themselves atheists Let us welcome even those who haven't got a word to describe the group where their 'I' belongs to.

For the step of each of those persons is the same.
"
.........

All the rest are welcome as well

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Reply from -----0
Dec.03.2008
11:10AM EDT 
vertical line Quote: "

O the mind that is fully developed in morality, concentration and wisdom  is free from the taints of lust, becoming, wrong views and ignorance.

ENLIGHTEN I AM NOT

With  Metta

"
.........

"
.........

developing morality and following right-views/wrong-views checklists could prove to be a MAJOR obstacle

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Reply from kelvintan
Dec.03.2008
12:32PM EDT 
Email kelvintan
vertical line Quote: "Quote: "

O the mind that is fully developed in morality, concentration and wisdom  is free from the taints of lust, becoming, wrong views and ignorance.

ENLIGHTEN I AM NOT

With  Metta

"
.........

"
.........

developing morality and following right-views/wrong-views checklists could prove to be a MAJOR obstacle

"
.........

"
.........

O perceiving, be mindful of the formation of MAJOR obstacle

Relying on yourself,  follow the Noble Eightfold Path

before death TAKES PLACE

With Metta

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Reply from kelvintan
Dec.03.2008
12:43PM EDT 
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Quote: "Whereas words fail us insight has a chance of succeeding. "
.........

Zen Enlightenment Needed   Zen Enlights Noble ones

Well said

With Metta

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Reply from ______
Dec.03.2008
12:50PM EDT 
vertical line An electrical power failure here over an hour ago
It was over no electrical power for an hower
Couldn't see to light the fire
High voltage
Incident

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Reply from kelvintan
Dec.03.2008
09:15PM EDT 
Email kelvintan
vertical line Quote: "An electrical power failure here over an hour ago
It was over no electrical power for an hower
Couldn't see to light the fire
High voltage
Incident

"
.........

"
.........

It was a cabling problem that causes failure

Taking place at this wee morning hours

Couldn't see light as all were sleeping soundly

High voltage,no one really knows about it

Nice Expression

With Metta

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Reply from peridot
Dec.03.2008
11:13PM EDT 
Email peridot
vertical line As long as there is no electrical power failure in your brain, then all will be well. There are far greater powers to consider than the power in a wall socket.
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Reply from kelvintan
Dec.04.2008
02:14AM EDT 
Email kelvintan
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Quote: "As long as there is no electrical power failure in your brain, then all will be well. There are far greater powers to consider than the power in a wall socket."
.........

Like Nature Powerful Earthquake Roars Intensive Destruction Occurring Tsunami

brought about untold suffering.

With Metta

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Reply from zen-zen
Dec.04.2008
02:47AM EDT 
vertical line A friend of mine does electrician jobs and he once said: "Safety at work? Electricity is blue and it hurts". A bright man.
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Reply from emancipate
Dec.04.2008
07:36AM EDT 
vertical line Kevlintan Quote: "

O the mind that is fully developed in morality, concentration and wisdom  is free from the taints of lust, becoming, wrong views and ignorance.

"
.........

Your lust to keep posting on this forum: quite complex and quite developed. Thank you for sharing.
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Reply from emancipate
Dec.04.2008
07:39AM EDT 
vertical line Quote: "

A Zen Monk in a monastery lives by specific rules of conduct.  Outside the monastery, whether in an apartment in the city, or a shack in the wilderness, one merely walks the razor's edge as best one can.

"
.........

Never again!...

A monk asked Kegon, "How does an enlightened one return to the ordinary world?"

Kegon replied, "A broken mirror never reflects again; fallen flowers never go back to the old branches."

(source)
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Reply from ______
Dec.04.2008
09:55AM EDT 
vertical line Quote: "As long as there is no electrical power failure in your brain, then all will be well. There are far greater powers to consider than the power in a wall socket."
.........

Who said anything about a wall socket?
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Reply from ______
Dec.04.2008
09:56AM EDT 
vertical line Quote: "A friend of mine does electrician jobs and he once said: "Safety at work? Electricity is blue and it hurts". A bright man."
.........

Not absolutely true.  
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Reply from ______
Dec.04.2008
09:57AM EDT 
vertical line My lust bears me up.
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Reply from zen-zen
Dec.04.2008
10:43AM EDT 
vertical line Rustic, can you still understand a humor and laugh at it when you see it?
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Reply from ______
Dec.04.2008
11:01AM EDT 
vertical line It wouldn't make any difference - if it did, you wouldn't be asking. 
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Reply from zen-zen
Dec.05.2008
02:41AM EDT 
vertical line So difference is important?
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Reply from ______
Dec.05.2008
08:24AM EDT 
vertical line Whaddya mean?
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Reply from immortal 1
Dec.06.2008
07:18AM EDT 
vertical line Quote: "Quote: "

A Zen Monk in a monastery lives by specific rules of conduct.  Outside the monastery, whether in an apartment in the city, or a shack in the wilderness, one merely walks the razor's edge as best one can.

"
.........

Never again!...

A monk asked Kegon, "How does an enlightened one return to the ordinary world?"

Kegon replied, "A broken mirror never reflects again; fallen flowers never go back to the old branches."

(source)
"
.........

"
.........

Never again!...

A monk asked Kegon, "How does an enlightened one return to the ordinary world?"

Kegon replied, "A broken mirror never reflects again; fallen flowers never go back to the old branches."

(source)
"
.........

I was reading Shunryu Suzuki lately.  Zen Talks on the Sandokai.  He comments that it is not enough to be all non-dual just as it is not enough to be all dual.  Balance of the two is what is needed.

That is what I believe is meant by walking the razors edge.  Fall to one side into dualism and all is lost.  Fall to the other side into non-dualism and all is lost.

But stay to the middle path between the two and they temper each other.

OJ Simpson is an example of someone who is all dualism.  He did not have non-dualism to temper him and he is going to prison.

Osho is an example of someone who was all non-dualism.  He had 93 Rolls Royces and his Sanga took over a Colorado town.  When he was brought up on charges he said he did not know what was going on.  He was too busy being Blessed.  He was also deported.

As long as we are alive, it appears circumstances call for a balance between dualism and non-dualism.  After we die, who knows?

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Reply from immortal 1
Dec.06.2008
07:31AM EDT 
vertical line Quote: "

Mr Immortal 1, well, I had a good look, and a listen for the discord and the beef.  There's nothing more to say about the discord but the beef you have seems to be with the owners and administrators of this site, in particular their use of the name ZenGuide. Now, your concern for the beginner is ostensibly a noble one, however, should said beginner, as you say, google Zen, end up here and find themselves being led down the path by a HatSize, I would hope that they had sufficient nous to seek a second opinion.


To return to your non-nutritious beef:


DISCUSSION FORUM 
» topic list   » start a new topic   » zenguide.com chat

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The discussion forum aims to spark discussions and to provide fellow buddhists and non-buddhists a means to discuss issues relevant to zen and buddhism. If you have specific questions about zenguide.com, or distressed about other unrelated issues, please contact us directly. This forum is mediated. Innappropriate posts will be removed per the moderators' discretion.

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The discussion forum aims to spark discussions and to provide fellow buddhists and non-buddhists a means to discuss issues relevant to zen and buddhism. If you have specific questions about zenguide.com, or distressed about other unrelated issues, please contact us directly. This forum is mediated. Innappropriate posts will be removed per the moderators' discretion.



Cut through the back-pain anguish and the sorrow - please accept the offer from the administrators of this site to contact [them] directly about your distress.


In the meantime, tell me about Jesus and Lucifer.

Cut through the back-pain anguish and the sorrow - please accept the offer from the administrators of this site to contact [them] directly about your distress.


In the meantime, tell me about Jesus and Lucifer.


"
.........

"
.........

In my meditative travels I have had the experiences of meeting a number of people such as Jehovah, Jesus, Lucifer, Pan, Freya, et al.  I do not know why, and would not swear that it is true.  Certainly I would not say that such constitutes truth.  It is a fact that I had these experiences, but that is all I would swear to.

When you go into meditation who can say what happens. 

I believe that the only difference between meditation and dying is that you have a working body to return to.  I would say that you do not have to die to get to the other side, you just have to be alive to come back.

Still I am only guessing.  I tend to agree with that song by STYX called The Grand Illusion.  I think there is a lyric that says something like Forget about the consternation, get on with the fascination.

I think when you meditate you open yourself up to unlimited possibilites of experience, real or not, and who is to say which is which?  I do not think it matters what is real or not, there is just what you experience.

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Reply from Rebecca
Dec.07.2008
02:45AM EDT 
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I had a dream.......

I was in a spaceship. It could not go back to earth, and in order to save everyone I went out the door into space. But it took too long for me to die. I waited and waited and panicked because it was taking too long too die. I wouldnt die. So I went back into  the spaceship and everyone was indifferent. It was a joke.

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Reply from emancipate
Dec.07.2008
03:38AM EDT 
vertical line Quote: "

I had a dream.......

I was in a spaceship. It could not go back to earth, and in order to save everyone I went out the door into space. But it took too long for me to die. I waited and waited and panicked because it was taking too long too die. I wouldnt die. So I went back into  the spaceship and everyone was indifferent. It was a joke.

"
.........

Traded innocence for fear. Childlike to no longer see in utility.

Too bad it was a dream. I wish you were dead. ;)

And God the light, and it was good... now you're one of us.

Death is unimaginable. Like heaven?

California dreamin'... "i've been for a walk, on a winter's day"

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Reply from immortal 1
Dec.12.2008
09:56AM EDT 
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Someone I knew in High School committed suicide last week.  He seemed to have it made.  He was a Pharmacist and had just bought the family Pharmacy from his father when he retired.  There was a nice writeup in the paper about the changing of the guard, etc.

I've contemplate suicide many times, but it doesn't make sense. 

First of all, what's the rush?  You're going to die anyway.

Secondly, who's to say it will improve your circumstances.  No doubt it would bring about major changes, but would they be good ones?

And also, it would be more fun to go on a crime spree and blow all the money in strip bars, later to die in a shootout with the police.

It seems the older I get the more comfortable I am with life, and with death.

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Reply from immortal 1
Dec.12.2008
10:10AM EDT 
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I have died in a couple of dreams.

I dreamed I was on my motorcycle and a truck ran me off the road into a park where I hit a tree.  I stood up and thought, "Damn.  Now I have to fix my bike." Then I noticed I was under the bike with my neck wrapped around the tree.  I looked myself over and patted myself down.  I was wearing the same clothes, and felt very much alive and physically sound.  Then I woke up. 

Later that day on the motorcycle, at the same location, I noticed a truck next to me that was the same as the one in the dream and I thought, "Oh no, that truck is about to change lanes".  I got over to the side quick and sure enough it did change lanes.  Even with a head start I barely made it.  There was no shoulder on the road, just a curb, and my handle bar only cleared his fender by about 2 inches as I zoomed ahead. 

It occured to me that if everything in the dream was an exact match to what really happened the rest would have happened otherwise.  So death was pretty easy.  I didn't even know it had happened.  And I was just the same, physically and mentally, except for not having a body.

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Reply from kelvintan
Dec.12.2008
10:26AM EDT 
Email kelvintan
vertical line Quote: "

Someone I knew in High School committed suicide last week.  He seemed to have it made.  He was a Pharmacist and had just bought the family Pharmacy from his father when he retired.  There was a nice writeup in the paper about the changing of the guard, etc.

I've contemplate suicide many times, but it doesn't make sense. 

First of all, what's the rush?  You're going to die anyway.

Secondly, who's to say it will improve your circumstances.  No doubt it would bring about major changes, but would they be good ones?

And also, it would be more fun to go on a crime spree and blow all the money in strip bars, later to die in a shootout with the police.

It seems the older I get the more comfortable I am with life, and with death.

"
.........

"
.........

Cessation of Individual Mentality, Materiality Opting Rashly Terminating A Life

losses the opportunity to be born as human inorder to end cyclic existence of suffering.

With Metta

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Reply from Rebecca
Dec.12.2008
02:08PM EDT 
Email Rebecca
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"end cyclic existense of suffering"

Yet we hold on in fear. Hold on to these human senses and emotions.

With chattering dreams to show us something hidden and almost real or just goofyness of our thoughts....blah blah

If dreamland is real in itself then I am quite the joke.

Nightmares will kick your ass. Dreams will be beautiful.....like a complete moment over and over,with echoing drops of water,all encompassing.

If we live the dream,maybe theres no need for it....yet we hold on in fear.

Hey....lets face you with death! Ha!

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Reply from Woodsman
Dec.12.2008
04:53PM EDT 
Email Woodsman
vertical line Where was I? Oops! Over there...( bow, full body on the floor, dusty homes under the furnishings).
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Reply from kelvintan
Dec.12.2008
09:15PM EDT 
Email kelvintan
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Fear not death ,fear  Roaming Endlessly Birth  Existence Can Cease Attachment and achieve ending of grief, sorrow, suffering, lamentation and despair.This state has been fully realised by the Buddha.
With Metta
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Reply from Rebecca
Dec.13.2008
01:14AM EDT 
Email Rebecca
vertical line Quote: "
Fear not death ,fear  Roaming Endlessly Birth  Existence Can Cease Attachment and achieve ending of grief, sorrow, suffering, lamentation and despair.This state has been fully realised by the Buddha.
With Metta
"
......... That is a fear....to live this all again.Think I ll come back as a worm. Nothing can exist without them.No worms....no life. Regression to simplicity ... to the unconciously profound. Ha! Just kidding really............................
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Reply from Rebecca
Dec.13.2008
01:23AM EDT 
Email Rebecca
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Isnt there some other way? Like squish all blissful moments into one and get out the rubber mallet? Dance into the moment......cry into the moment......love into the moment.....why does it have to be so........

Understanding the words read....is like wording love.Cant be written. None of this can be said.But here we are talking.

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Reply from kelvintan
Dec.13.2008
12:45PM EDT 
Email kelvintan
vertical line Quote: "

Isnt there some other way? Like squish all blissful moments into one and get out the rubber mallet? Dance into the moment......cry into the moment......love into the moment.....why does it have to be so........

Understanding the words read....is like wording love.Cant be written. None of this can be said.But here we are talking.

"
.........

"
.........

One thought-moment conditions the next thought-moment.So cut off last thought moment of coming back as a worm.:)

Without roots, tree will be lifeless without leaves, just as in having a family.

It had to be so because it is the nature of our life to experience them all and

Renounce Everything Before Ending. Ceased Condtions Arising

With Metta

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Reply from immortal 1
Dec.20.2008
06:58AM EDT 
vertical line Quote: "

Isnt there some other way? Like squish all blissful moments into one and get out the rubber mallet? Dance into the moment......cry into the moment......love into the moment.....why does it have to be so........

Understanding the words read....is like wording love.Cant be written. None of this can be said.But here we are talking.

"
.........

"
.........

True.  What we have to say here can't be said.  So we dance around it.

Except Lehish !!  Geez, she's like a Nun with a ruler, just waiting for a chance to rap you across the knuckles... oh oh, here she comes!  Have to run....

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Reply from ______
Dec.20.2008
07:33AM EDT 
vertical line Feel exhausted yet?
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Reply from lehish
Dec.21.2008
01:09AM EDT 
Email lehish
vertical line Quote: "Quote: "

Isnt there some other way? Like squish all blissful moments into one and get out the rubber mallet? Dance into the moment......cry into the moment......love into the moment.....why does it have to be so........

Understanding the words read....is like wording love.Cant be written. None of this can be said.But here we are talking.

"
.........

"
.........

True.  What we have to say here can't be said.  So we dance around it.

Except Lehish !!  Geez, she's like a Nun with a ruler, just waiting for a chance to rap you across the knuckles... oh oh, here she comes!  Have to run....

"
.........

"
.........

chasing........... tackling.......sitting on chest..................dangggggg...... didn't bring the ruler.........

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Reply from immortal 1
Dec.22.2008
04:46AM EDT 
vertical line Quote: "Quote: "Quote: "

Isnt there some other way? Like squish all blissful moments into one and get out the rubber mallet? Dance into the moment......cry into the moment......love into the moment.....why does it have to be so........

Understanding the words read....is like wording love.Cant be written. None of this can be said.But here we are talking.

"
.........

"
.........

True.  What we have to say here can't be said.  So we dance around it.

Except Lehish !!  Geez, she's like a Nun with a ruler, just waiting for a chance to rap you across the knuckles... oh oh, here she comes!  Have to run....

"
.........

"
.........

chasing........... tackling.......sitting on chest..................dangggggg...... didn't bring the ruler.........

"
.........

"
.........

You're tough and uncompromising, Lehish, but I love you.

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Reply from immortal 1
Dec.22.2008
04:55AM EDT 
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Quote: "Feel exhausted yet?"
.........

Yeah, still tired.  This forum can become addictive I think. 

In my own case it can distract from reading and meditation.  So I'm only touching here very briefly anymore.

How is your Shamanism coming.  I miss that.  But once I came to realize that it was all just part of the same delusion, not a separate reality, there was nowhere left to go.

But I still seem to have a connection with the birds and trees just the same.  Not long ago I was sitting in my furniture store one Sunday afternoon with the door open.  A hummingbird went flying by, stopped, flew into my store, hovered a few feet in front of me and began chattering like a Magpie.  I didn't even knew they could talk.  I said thank you as it flew away, even though I hadn't understood a word of it.  I figured something must be amiss.

Just as I went outside to have a look around, several police cars with their lights flashing pulled up to the business next door, which was closed.  Evidently someone had broken in and set off the silent burglar alarm.

Its all a delusion.   Not much point in banging the drum anymore.  But I do enjoy what comes my way anyway, even though I know its all delusion.

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Reply from ______
Dec.22.2008
02:32PM EDT 
vertical line No shamanism to come along. It's all the same to me. 
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Reply from lehish
Dec.23.2008
12:11AM EDT 
Email lehish
vertical line Quote: "Quote: "Quote: "Quote: "

Isnt there some other way? Like squish all blissful moments into one and get out the rubber mallet? Dance into the moment......cry into the moment......love into the moment.....why does it have to be so........

Understanding the words read....is like wording love.Cant be written. None of this can be said.But here we are talking.

"
.........

"
.........

True.  What we have to say here can't be said.  So we dance around it.

Except Lehish !!  Geez, she's like a Nun with a ruler, just waiting for a chance to rap you across the knuckles... oh oh, here she comes!  Have to run....

"
.........

"
.........

chasing........... tackling.......sitting on chest..................dangggggg...... didn't bring the ruler.........

"
.........

"
.........

You're tough and uncompromising, Lehish, but I love you.

"
.........

"
.........

loving, sweetness

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Reply from immortal 1
Jan.03.2009
04:46AM EDT 
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Sometimes I am dreaming and I know I am dreaming, but I cannot seem to wake up.  So even though I know I am dreaming I have to go along with whatever is going on in the dream until I finally wake up.

Life is like that.  I know this is all delusion, a dream of sorts, but I have to play along with it for the time being. 

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Reply from shayne
Jan.03.2009
07:36AM EDT 
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nah life isnt a dream...nor is it dilusion.

who told you such gibberish?

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Reply from lehish
Jan.04.2009
06:14AM EDT 
Email lehish
vertical line Quote: "

Sometimes I am dreaming and I know I am dreaming, but I cannot seem to wake up.  So even though I know I am dreaming I have to go along with whatever is going on in the dream until I finally wake up.

Life is like that.  I know this is all delusion, a dream of sorts, but I have to play along with it for the time being. 

"
.........

"
.........

what 's as though dreaming, cannot wake up, going along with whatever is going on in the dream until wakes up ?

'idea life' idelusion ?

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Reply from ______
Jan.04.2009
09:59AM EDT 
vertical line What's sweetness?
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 90590
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Reply from lehish
Jan.04.2009
07:16PM EDT 
Email lehish
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to concern about the word

vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 90594
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Reply from lehish
Jan.04.2009
07:17PM EDT 
Email lehish
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* don't concern about the word

vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 90595
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Reply from ______
Jan.04.2009
08:06PM EDT 
vertical line **don't concern
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 90599
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Reply from lehish
Jan.05.2009
04:37AM EDT 
Email lehish
vertical line yep
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 90602
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Reply from ______
Jan.05.2009
09:53AM EDT 
vertical line yap yap 
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 90607
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Reply from lehish
Jan.05.2009
11:31AM EDT 
Email lehish
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Quote: "yap yap "
.........

yes you yapped rustic

vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 90614
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Reply from immortal 1
Jan.06.2009
08:44AM EDT 
vertical line Quote: "

nah life isnt a dream...nor is it dilusion.

who told you such gibberish?

"
.........

"
.........

I thought I heard that from you, Shane, my old buddy.

Think about it in terms of atoms and molecules and do you not think that as real as reality is it is still very tangential, like a dream?  A constantly shifting matrix of change?

I know that the classic definition of insanity is to refute reality, and I do not, whether in 3d reality or in dreams.  What you have to deal with is what you have to deal with.  Follow the rules and you will probably be alright.

People get locked up for wearing tinfoil hats and other schizoid behaviors not because they see reality differently but because they are not following the rules.  Then they either cannot take care of themselves or pose a danger to others.

Something we all know here is that a definition of reality is hard to come by.  So someone who says something else is reality and this is not is probably wrong.  To say that something is is to say that something else is not, and in a universe where anything is possible it is better to keep an open mind about such things.

I do not care what is or is not reality.  It does not matter.  I just want to accept things as it is, in dreams or reality, figure out the rules and follow them. 

vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 90632
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Reply from immortal 1
Jan.06.2009
08:46AM EDT 
vertical line Quote: "

Quote: "yap yap "
.........

yes you yapped rustic

"
.........

"
.........

Thank you, Sweetie, for sticking up for me.

vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 90633
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Reply from ______
Jan.07.2009
08:23AM EDT 
vertical line Quote: "Quote: "

Quote: "yap yap "
.........

yes you yapped rustic

"
.........

"
.........

Thank you, Sweetie, for sticking up for me.

"
.........

Interesting.  And I thought that Sweetie was responding to yap yap.

..........

You could have responded to Sweetie's response to this:

Quote: "Quote: "

Sometimes I am dreaming and I know I am dreaming, but I cannot seem to wake up.  So even though I know I am dreaming I have to go along with whatever is going on in the dream until I finally wake up.

Life is like that.  I know this is all delusion, a dream of sorts, but I have to play along with it for the time being. 

"
.........

"
.........

what 's as though dreaming, cannot wake up, going along with whatever is going on in the dream until wakes up ?

'idea life' idelusion ?

"
.........
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 90651
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Reply from immortal 1
Jan.08.2009
06:56AM EDT 
vertical line Quote: "Quote: "Quote: "

Quote: "yap yap "
.........

yes you yapped rustic

"
.........

"
.........

Thank you, Sweetie, for sticking up for me.

"
.........

Interesting.  And I thought that Sweetie was responding to yap yap.

..........

You could have responded to Sweetie's response to this:

Quote: "Quote: "

Sometimes I am dreaming and I know I am dreaming, but I cannot seem to wake up.  So even though I know I am dreaming I have to go along with whatever is going on in the dream until I finally wake up.

Life is like that.  I know this is all delusion, a dream of sorts, but I have to play along with it for the time being. 

"
.........

"
.........
"
.........

what 's as though dreaming, cannot wake up, going along with whatever is going on in the dream until wakes up ?

'idea life' idelusion ?

"

Sometimes I am dreaming and I know I am dreaming, but I cannot seem to wake up.  So even though I know I am dreaming I have to go along with whatever is going on in the dream until I finally wake up.

Life is like that.  I know this is all delusion, a dream of sorts, but I have to play along with it for the time being. 

"
.........

"
.........

what 's as though dreaming, cannot wake up, going along with whatever is going on in the dream until wakes up ?

'idea life' idelusion ?

"
Idelusion is a good word for what we call life.  Idea.  Illusion.  Delusion.  Take your pick.
What is life anyway?  Does that not depend entirely on how broad your perspective is?
If limited to your own self only, then it is work, school, eating, friends, plans, hopes, dreams, etc.
Seen as a member of a species, it is inhabitation of this planet, how many, how long, what future?
Seen from the perspective of the planet in the Galaxy....
Seen from the perspective of the Galaxy in the Universe....
Seen from the perspective of the Universe as a plane of existence....
And if you have understanding, unlimited possibilities, and yet at the same time only one.  But there is no point in discussing that with someone who does not have understanding. 
Lehish does have understanding.  There is no way to pin down her understanding, and so she never lets anyone get away with it.  I understand that. 
It is as it is, and it will be as it will be.  What I meant was that whatever the experience you just have to accept things as it is.
Okay, your turn Lehish.
.........
"
.........
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 90657
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Reply from shayne
Jan.08.2009
09:34AM EDT 
Email shayne
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life is no delusion.

now life can change.

for the most part life is prefabricated.

we made all this.

the socities,time,money,ect.

birds poop on statues while we worship them.

im with the birds.

vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 90663
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Reply from ______
Jan.08.2009
12:08PM EDT 
vertical line Quote: "Quote: "Quote: "Quote: "

Quote: "yap yap "
.........

yes you yapped rustic

"
.........

"
.........

Thank you, Sweetie, for sticking up for me.

"
.........

Interesting.  And I thought that Sweetie was responding to yap yap.

..........

You could have responded to Sweetie's response to this:

Quote: "Quote: "

Sometimes I am dreaming and I know I am dreaming, but I cannot seem to wake up.  So even though I know I am dreaming I have to go along with whatever is going on in the dream until I finally wake up.

Life is like that.  I know this is all delusion, a dream of sorts, but I have to play along with it for the time being. 

"
.........

"
.........
"
.........

what 's as though dreaming, cannot wake up, going along with whatever is going on in the dream until wakes up ?

'idea life' idelusion ?

"

Sometimes I am dreaming and I know I am dreaming, but I cannot seem to wake up.  So even though I know I am dreaming I have to go along with whatever is going on in the dream until I finally wake up.

Life is like that.  I know this is all delusion, a dream of sorts, but I have to play along with it for the time being. 

"
.........

"
.........

what 's as though dreaming, cannot wake up, going along with whatever is going on in the dream until wakes up ?

'idea life' idelusion ?

"
Idelusion is a good word for what we call life.  Idea.  Illusion.  Delusion.  Take your pick.
What is life anyway?  Does that not depend entirely on how broad your perspective is?
If limited to your own self only, then it is work, school, eating, friends, plans, hopes, dreams, etc.
Seen as a member of a species, it is inhabitation of this planet, how many, how long, what future?
Seen from the perspective of the planet in the Galaxy....
Seen from the perspective of the Galaxy in the Universe....
Seen from the perspective of the Universe as a plane of existence....
And if you have understanding, unlimited possibilities, and yet at the same time only one.  But there is no point in discussing that with someone who does not have understanding. 
Lehish does have understanding.  There is no way to pin down her understanding, and so she never lets anyone get away with it.  I understand that. 
It is as it is, and it will be as it will be.  What I meant was that whatever the experience you just have to accept things as it is.
Okay, your turn Lehish.
.........
"
......... "
.........

Life is a mystery. When you think about it you can see it from perspectives and make all kinds of  fancifully imaginative statements about what  you claim to know.

Okay.  Lehish has understanding, you have understanding - I don't understand - what is it that she never lets anyone get away with? Maybe will fortunate lehish explain what you're talking about.  
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 90665
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Reply from lehish
Jan.10.2009
07:36AM EDT 
Email lehish
vertical line Quote: "Quote: "Quote: "Quote: "Quote: "

Quote: "yap yap "
.........

yes you yapped rustic

"
.........

"
.........

Thank you, Sweetie, for sticking up for me.

"
.........

Interesting.  And I thought that Sweetie was responding to yap yap.

..........

You could have responded to Sweetie's response to this:

Quote: "Quote: "

Sometimes I am dreaming and I know I am dreaming, but I cannot seem to wake up.  So even though I know I am dreaming I have to go along with whatever is going on in the dream until I finally wake up.

Life is like that.  I know this is all delusion, a dream of sorts, but I have to play along with it for the time being. 

"
.........

"
.........
"
.........

what 's as though dreaming, cannot wake up, going along with whatever is going on in the dream until wakes up ?

'idea life' idelusion ?

"

Sometimes I am dreaming and I know I am dreaming, but I cannot seem to wake up.  So even though I know I am dreaming I have to go along with whatever is going on in the dream until I finally wake up.

Life is like that.  I know this is all delusion, a dream of sorts, but I have to play along with it for the time being. 

"
.........

"
.........

what 's as though dreaming, cannot wake up, going along with whatever is going on in the dream until wakes up ?

'idea life' idelusion ?

"
Idelusion is a good word for what we call life.  Idea.  Illusion.  Delusion.  Take your pick.
What is life anyway?  Does that not depend entirely on how broad your perspective is?
If limited to your own self only, then it is work, school, eating, friends, plans, hopes, dreams, etc.
Seen as a member of a species, it is inhabitation of this planet, how many, how long, what future?
Seen from the perspective of the planet in the Galaxy....
Seen from the perspective of the Galaxy in the Universe....
Seen from the perspective of the Universe as a plane of existence....
And if you have understanding, unlimited possibilities, and yet at the same time only one.  But there is no point in discussing that with someone who does not have understanding. 
Lehish does have understanding.  There is no way to pin down her understanding, and so she never lets anyone get away with it.  I understand that. 
It is as it is, and it will be as it will be.  What I meant was that whatever the experience you just have to accept things as it is.
Okay, your turn Lehish.
.........
"
......... "
.........

Life is a mystery. When you think about it you can see it from perspectives and make all kinds of  fancifully imaginative statements about what  you claim to know.

Okay.  Lehish has understanding, you have understanding - I don't understand - what is it that she never lets anyone get away with? Maybe will fortunate lehish explain what you're talking about.  
"
.........
you posted assuming "has understanding' was meant the way you posted thinking it was meant, instead of asking 
you often post assuming instead of asking
"
......... "
.........

Life is a mystery. When you think about it you can see it from perspectives and make all kinds of  fancifully imaginative statements about what  you claim to know.

Okay.  Lehish has understanding, you have understanding - I don't understand - what is it that she never lets anyone get away with? Maybe will fortunate lehish explain what you're talking about.  
"
.........
you posted assuming "has understanding' was meant the way you posted thinking it was meant, instead of asking 
you often post assuming instead of asking
"
.........
"
.........

Life is a mystery. When you think about it you can see it from perspectives and make all kinds of  fancifully imaginative statements about what  you claim to know.

Okay.  Lehish has understanding, you have understanding - I don't understand - what is it that she never lets anyone get away with? Maybe will fortunate lehish explain what you're talking about.  
"
.........
you posted assuming "has understanding' was meant the way you posted thinking it was meant, instead of asking 
you often post assuming instead of asking
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 90723
horizontal line
 
horizontal line
Reply from lehish
Jan.10.2009
07:38AM EDT 
Email lehish
vertical line

testing to see

 if will space the lines

vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 90724
horizontal line
 
horizontal line
Reply from ______
Jan.10.2009
09:15AM EDT 
vertical line Quote: "Quote: "Quote: "Quote: "Quote: "Quote: "

Quote: "yap yap "
.........

yes you yapped rustic

"
.........

"
.........

Thank you, Sweetie, for sticking up for me.

"
.........

Interesting.  And I thought that Sweetie was responding to yap yap.

..........

You could have responded to Sweetie's response to this:

Quote: "Quote: "

Sometimes I am dreaming and I know I am dreaming, but I cannot seem to wake up.  So even though I know I am dreaming I have to go along with whatever is going on in the dream until I finally wake up.

Life is like that.  I know this is all delusion, a dream of sorts, but I have to play along with it for the time being. 

"
.........

"
.........
"
.........

what 's as though dreaming, cannot wake up, going along with whatever is going on in the dream until wakes up ?

'idea life' idelusion ?

"

Sometimes I am dreaming and I know I am dreaming, but I cannot seem to wake up.  So even though I know I am dreaming I have to go along with whatever is going on in the dream until I finally wake up.

Life is like that.  I know this is all delusion, a dream of sorts, but I have to play along with it for the time being. 

"
.........

"
.........

what 's as though dreaming, cannot wake up, going along with whatever is going on in the dream until wakes up ?

'idea life' idelusion ?

"
Idelusion is a good word for what we call life.  Idea.  Illusion.  Delusion.  Take your pick.
What is life anyway?  Does that not depend entirely on how broad your perspective is?
If limited to your own self only, then it is work, school, eating, friends, plans, hopes, dreams, etc.
Seen as a member of a species, it is inhabitation of this planet, how many, how long, what future?
Seen from the perspective of the planet in the Galaxy....
Seen from the perspective of the Galaxy in the Universe....
Seen from the perspective of the Universe as a plane of existence....
And if you have understanding, unlimited possibilities, and yet at the same time only one.  But there is no point in discussing that with someone who does not have understanding. 
Lehish does have understanding.  There is no way to pin down her understanding, and so she never lets anyone get away with it.  I understand that. 
It is as it is, and it will be as it will be.  What I meant was that whatever the experience you just have to accept things as it is.
Okay, your turn Lehish.
.........
"
......... "
.........

Life is a mystery. When you think about it you can see it from perspectives and make all kinds of  fancifully imaginative statements about what  you claim to know.

Okay.  Lehish has understanding, you have understanding - I don't understand - what is it that she never lets anyone get away with? Maybe will fortunate lehish explain what you're talking about.  
"
.........
you posted assuming "has understanding' was meant the way you posted thinking it was meant, instead of asking 
you often post assuming instead of asking
"
......... "
.........

Life is a mystery. When you think about it you can see it from perspectives and make all kinds of  fancifully imaginative statements about what  you claim to know.

Okay.  Lehish has understanding, you have understanding - I don't understand - what is it that she never lets anyone get away with? Maybe will fortunate lehish explain what you're talking about.  
"
.........
you posted assuming "has understanding' was meant the way you posted thinking it was meant, instead of asking 
you often post assuming instead of asking
"
......... "
.........

Life is a mystery. When you think about it you can see it from perspectives and make all kinds of  fancifully imaginative statements about what  you claim to know.

Okay.  Lehish has understanding, you have understanding - I don't understand - what is it that she never lets anyone get away with? Maybe will fortunate lehish explain what you're talking about.  
"
.........
you posted assuming "has understanding' was meant the way you posted thinking it was meant, instead of asking 
you often post assuming instead of asking
"
.........

You posted assuming that.  How do you know what  Immortal 1 meant by has understanding?  How do you know what I was thinking it meant.  That's why I asked for your explanation.  Like Immortal 1 your posts are presumptive, your comments may be construed as rude and smartassed.
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 90725
horizontal line
 
horizontal line
Reply from ______
Jan.10.2009
09:15AM EDT 
vertical line Quote: "

testing to see

 if will space the lines

"
.........


No idea what you're talking about and I care even less. 
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 90726
horizontal line
 
horizontal line
Reply from lehish
Jan.10.2009
09:58AM EDT 
Email lehish
vertical line Quote: "Quote: "Quote: "Quote: "Quote: "Quote: "Quote: "

Quote: "yap yap "
.........

yes you yapped rustic

"
.........

"
.........

Thank you, Sweetie, for sticking up for me.

"
.........

Interesting.  And I thought that Sweetie was responding to yap yap.

..........

You could have responded to Sweetie's response to this:

Quote: "Quote: "

Sometimes I am dreaming and I know I am dreaming, but I cannot seem to wake up.  So even though I know I am dreaming I have to go along with whatever is going on in the dream until I finally wake up.

Life is like that.  I know this is all delusion, a dream of sorts, but I have to play along with it for the time being. 

"
.........

"
.........
"
.........

what 's as though dreaming, cannot wake up, going along with whatever is going on in the dream until wakes up ?

'idea life' idelusion ?

"

Sometimes I am dreaming and I know I am dreaming, but I cannot seem to wake up.  So even though I know I am dreaming I have to go along with whatever is going on in the dream until I finally wake up.

Life is like that.  I know this is all delusion, a dream of sorts, but I have to play along with it for the time being. 

"
.........

"
.........

what 's as though dreaming, cannot wake up, going along with whatever is going on in the dream until wakes up ?

'idea life' idelusion ?

"
Idelusion is a good word for what we call life.  Idea.  Illusion.  Delusion.  Take your pick.
What is life anyway?  Does that not depend entirely on how broad your perspective is?
If limited to your own self only, then it is work, school, eating, friends, plans, hopes, dreams, etc.
Seen as a member of a species, it is inhabitation of this planet, how many, how long, what future?
Seen from the perspective of the planet in the Galaxy....
Seen from the perspective of the Galaxy in the Universe....
Seen from the perspective of the Universe as a plane of existence....
And if you have understanding, unlimited possibilities, and yet at the same time only one.  But there is no point in discussing that with someone who does not have understanding. 
Lehish does have understanding.  There is no way to pin down her understanding, and so she never lets anyone get away with it.  I understand that. 
It is as it is, and it will be as it will be.  What I meant was that whatever the experience you just have to accept things as it is.
Okay, your turn Lehish.
.........
"
......... "
.........

Life is a mystery. When you think about it you can see it from perspectives and make all kinds of  fancifully imaginative statements about what  you claim to know.

Okay.  Lehish has understanding, you have understanding - I don't understand - what is it that she never lets anyone get away with? Maybe will fortunate lehish explain what you're talking about.  
"
.........
you posted assuming "has understanding' was meant the way you posted thinking it was meant, instead of asking 
you often post assuming instead of asking
"
......... "
.........

Life is a mystery. When you think about it you can see it from perspectives and make all kinds of  fancifully imaginative statements about what  you claim to know.

Okay.  Lehish has understanding, you have understanding - I don't understand - what is it that she never lets anyone get away with? Maybe will fortunate lehish explain what you're talking about.  
"
.........
you posted assuming "has understanding' was meant the way you posted thinking it was meant, instead of asking 
you often post assuming instead of asking
"
......... "
.........

Life is a mystery. When you think about it you can see it from perspectives and make all kinds of  fancifully imaginative statements about what  you claim to know.

Okay.  Lehish has understanding, you have understanding - I don't understand - what is it that she never lets anyone get away with? Maybe will fortunate lehish explain what you're talking about.  
"
.........
you posted assuming "has understanding' was meant the way you posted thinking it was meant, instead of asking 
you often post assuming instead of asking
"
.........

You posted assuming that.  How do you know what  Immortal 1 meant by has understanding?  How do you know what I was thinking it meant.  That's why I asked for your explanation.  Like Immortal 1 your posts are presumptive, your comments may be construed as rude and smartassed.
"
.........
there wasn't said lehish knew what immortal meant by 'has understanding'
there wasn't knowing what you were thinking, just reading that you posted assuming
when it's pointed out that you've posted assuming, you try the tactic of saying lehish is assuming, that the posts are presumtive
"
......... "
.........

Life is a mystery. When you think about it you can see it from perspectives and make all kinds of  fancifully imaginative statements about what  you claim to know.

Okay.  Lehish has understanding, you have understanding - I don't understand - what is it that she never lets anyone get away with? Maybe will fortunate lehish explain what you're talking about.  
"
.........
you posted assuming "has understanding' was meant the way you posted thinking it was meant, instead of asking 
you often post assuming instead of asking
"
......... "
.........

Life is a mystery. When you think about it you can see it from perspectives and make all kinds of  fancifully imaginative statements about what  you claim to know.

Okay.  Lehish has understanding, you have understanding - I don't understand - what is it that she never lets anyone get away with? Maybe will fortunate lehish explain what you're talking about.  
"
.........
you posted assuming "has understanding' was meant the way you posted thinking it was meant, instead of asking 
you often post assuming instead of asking
"
.........

You posted assuming that.  How do you know what  Immortal 1 meant by has understanding?  How do you know what I was thinking it meant.  That's why I asked for your explanation.  Like Immortal 1 your posts are presumptive, your comments may be construed as rude and smartassed.
"
.........
there wasn't said lehish knew what immortal meant by 'has understanding'
there wasn't knowing what you were thinking, just reading that you posted assuming
when it's pointed out that you've posted assuming, you try the tactic of saying lehish is assuming, that the posts are presumtive
"
.........
"
.........

Life is a mystery. When you think about it you can see it from perspectives and make all kinds of  fancifully imaginative statements about what  you claim to know.

Okay.  Lehish has understanding, you have understanding - I don't understand - what is it that she never lets anyone get away with? Maybe will fortunate lehish explain what you're talking about.  
"
.........
you posted assuming "has understanding' was meant the way you posted thinking it was meant, instead of asking 
you often post assuming instead of asking
"
.........

You posted assuming that.  How do you know what  Immortal 1 meant by has understanding?  How do you know what I was thinking it meant.  That's why I asked for your explanation.  Like Immortal 1 your posts are presumptive, your comments may be construed as rude and smartassed.
"
.........
there wasn't said lehish knew what immortal meant by 'has understanding'
there wasn't knowing what you were thinking, just reading that you posted assuming
when it's pointed out that you've posted assuming, you try the tactic of saying lehish is assuming, that the posts are presumtive
"
.........

You posted assuming that.  How do you know what  Immortal 1 meant by has understanding?  How do you know what I was thinking it meant.  That's why I asked for your explanation.  Like Immortal 1 your posts are presumptive, your comments may be construed as rude and smartassed.
"
.........
there wasn't said lehish knew what immortal meant by 'has understanding'
there wasn't knowing what you were thinking, just reading that you posted assuming
when it's pointed out that you've posted assuming, you try the tactic of saying lehish is assuming, that the posts are presumtive
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 90731
horizontal line
 
horizontal line
Reply from lehish
Jan.10.2009
10:02AM EDT 
Email lehish
vertical line Quote: "Quote: "

testing to see

 if will space the lines

"
.........

"
.........

No idea what you're talking about and I care even less. 

"
.........

"
.........

the post was for testing the spacing of lines...in the post above it the lines didn't space, just like in the post about this post, so why did you post saying that ?

vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 90732
horizontal line
 
horizontal line
Reply from ______
Jan.10.2009
10:06AM EDT 
vertical line Quote: "Quote: "Quote: "Quote: "Quote: "Quote: "Quote: "Quote: "

Quote: "yap yap "
.........

yes you yapped rustic

"
.........

"
.........

Thank you, Sweetie, for sticking up for me.

"
.........

Interesting.  And I thought that Sweetie was responding to yap yap.

..........

You could have responded to Sweetie's response to this:

Quote: "Quote: "

Sometimes I am dreaming and I know I am dreaming, but I cannot seem to wake up.  So even though I know I am dreaming I have to go along with whatever is going on in the dream until I finally wake up.

Life is like that.  I know this is all delusion, a dream of sorts, but I have to play along with it for the time being. 

"
.........

"
.........
"
.........

what 's as though dreaming, cannot wake up, going along with whatever is going on in the dream until wakes up ?

'idea life' idelusion ?

"

Sometimes I am dreaming and I know I am dreaming, but I cannot seem to wake up.  So even though I know I am dreaming I have to go along with whatever is going on in the dream until I finally wake up.

Life is like that.  I know this is all delusion, a dream of sorts, but I have to play along with it for the time being. 

"
.........

"
.........

what 's as though dreaming, cannot wake up, going along with whatever is going on in the dream until wakes up ?

'idea life' idelusion ?

"
Idelusion is a good word for what we call life.  Idea.  Illusion.  Delusion.  Take your pick.
What is life anyway?  Does that not depend entirely on how broad your perspective is?
If limited to your own self only, then it is work, school, eating, friends, plans, hopes, dreams, etc.
Seen as a member of a species, it is inhabitation of this planet, how many, how long, what future?
Seen from the perspective of the planet in the Galaxy....
Seen from the perspective of the Galaxy in the Universe....
Seen from the perspective of the Universe as a plane of existence....
And if you have understanding, unlimited possibilities, and yet at the same time only one.  But there is no point in discussing that with someone who does not have understanding. 
Lehish does have understanding.  There is no way to pin down her understanding, and so she never lets anyone get away with it.  I understand that. 
It is as it is, and it will be as it will be.  What I meant was that whatever the experience you just have to accept things as it is.
Okay, your turn Lehish.
.........
"
......... "
.........

Life is a mystery. When you think about it you can see it from perspectives and make all kinds of  fancifully imaginative statements about what  you claim to know.

Okay.  Lehish has understanding, you have understanding - I don't understand - what is it that she never lets anyone get away with? Maybe will fortunate lehish explain what you're talking about.  
"
.........
you posted assuming "has understanding' was meant the way you posted thinking it was meant, instead of asking 
you often post assuming instead of asking
"
......... "
.........

Life is a mystery. When you think about it you can see it from perspectives and make all kinds of  fancifully imaginative statements about what  you claim to know.

Okay.  Lehish has understanding, you have understanding - I don't understand - what is it that she never lets anyone get away with? Maybe will fortunate lehish explain what you're talking about.  
"
.........
you posted assuming "has understanding' was meant the way you posted thinking it was meant, instead of asking 
you often post assuming instead of asking
"
......... "
.........

Life is a mystery. When you think about it you can see it from perspectives and make all kinds of  fancifully imaginative statements about what  you claim to know.

Okay.  Lehish has understanding, you have understanding - I don't understand - what is it that she never lets anyone get away with? Maybe will fortunate lehish explain what you're talking about.  
"
.........
you posted assuming "has understanding' was meant the way you posted thinking it was meant, instead of asking 
you often post assuming instead of asking
"
.........

You posted assuming that.  How do you know what  Immortal 1 meant by has understanding?  How do you know what I was thinking it meant.  That's why I asked for your explanation.  Like Immortal 1 your posts are presumptive, your comments may be construed as rude and smartassed.
"
.........
there wasn't said lehish knew what immortal meant by 'has understanding'
there wasn't knowing what you were thinking, just reading that you posted assuming
when it's pointed out that you've posted assuming, you try the tactic of saying lehish is assuming, that the posts are presumtive
"
......... "
.........

Life is a mystery. When you think about it you can see it from perspectives and make all kinds of  fancifully imaginative statements about what  you claim to know.

Okay.  Lehish has understanding, you have understanding - I don't understand - what is it that she never lets anyone get away with? Maybe will fortunate lehish explain what you're talking about.  
"
.........
you posted assuming "has understanding' was meant the way you posted thinking it was meant, instead of asking 
you often post assuming instead of asking
"
......... "
.........

Life is a mystery. When you think about it you can see it from perspectives and make all kinds of  fancifully imaginative statements about what  you claim to know.

Okay.  Lehish has understanding, you have understanding - I don't understand - what is it that she never lets anyone get away with? Maybe will fortunate lehish explain what you're talking about.  
"
.........
you posted assuming "has understanding' was meant the way you posted thinking it was meant, instead of asking 
you often post assuming instead of asking
"
.........

You posted assuming that.  How do you know what  Immortal 1 meant by has understanding?  How do you know what I was thinking it meant.  That's why I asked for your explanation.  Like Immortal 1 your posts are presumptive, your comments may be construed as rude and smartassed.
"
.........
there wasn't said lehish knew what immortal meant by 'has understanding'
there wasn't knowing what you were thinking, just reading that you posted as"
.........

Didn't say there was, I asked 1 question, then 2 questions.  You seem to have misinterpreted, read as wrong what I posted as. 
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Reply from ______
Jan.10.2009
10:16AM EDT 
vertical line There was a response but it seems not to have made the post.   So I won't re-post.  Do you really think that this is about what you call tactic, or is that just another assumption?  
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 90734
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Reply from lehish
Jan.10.2009
10:17AM EDT 
Email lehish
vertical line Quote: "Quote: "Quote: "Quote: "

Quote: "yap yap "
.........

yes you yapped rustic

"
.........

"
.........

Thank you, Sweetie, for sticking up for me.

"
.........

Interesting.  And I thought that Sweetie was responding to yap yap.

..........

You could have responded to Sweetie's response to this:

Quote: "Quote: "

Sometimes I am dreaming and I know I am dreaming, but I cannot seem to wake up.  So even though I know I am dreaming I have to go along with whatever is going on in the dream until I finally wake up.

Life is like that.  I know this is all delusion, a dream of sorts, but I have to play along with it for the time being. 

"
.........

"
.........
"
.........

what 's as though dreaming, cannot wake up, going along with whatever is going on in the dream until wakes up ?

'idea life' idelusion ?

"

Sometimes I am dreaming and I know I am dreaming, but I cannot seem to wake up.  So even though I know I am dreaming I have to go along with whatever is going on in the dream until I finally wake up.

Life is like that.  I know this is all delusion, a dream of sorts, but I have to play along with it for the time being. 

"
.........

"
.........

what 's as though dreaming, cannot wake up, going along with whatever is going on in the dream until wakes up ?

'idea life' idelusion ?

"
Idelusion is a good word for what we call life.  Idea.  Illusion.  Delusion.  Take your pick.
What is life anyway?  Does that not depend entirely on how broad your perspective is?
If limited to your own self only, then it is work, school, eating, friends, plans, hopes, dreams, etc.
Seen as a member of a species, it is inhabitation of this planet, how many, how long, what future?
Seen from the perspective of the planet in the Galaxy....
Seen from the perspective of the Galaxy in the Universe....
Seen from the perspective of the Universe as a plane of existence....
And if you have understanding, unlimited possibilities, and yet at the same time only one.  But there is no point in discussing that with someone who does not have understanding. 
Lehish does have understanding.  There is no way to pin down her understanding, and so she never lets anyone get away with it.  I understand that. 
It is as it is, and it will be as it will be.  What I meant was that whatever the experience you just have to accept things as it is.
Okay, your turn Lehish.
.........

"
......... "
.........

"
.........
"
.........

 has a 'center' been found from which there's as though a perspective experience, from which life seems to be illusion delusion ?

vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 90735
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Reply from ______
Jan.10.2009
10:21AM EDT 
vertical line Quote: "Quote: "Quote: "

testing to see

 if will space the lines

"
.........

"
.........

No idea what you're talking about and I care even less. 

"
.........

"
.........

the post was for testing the spacing of lines...in the post above it the lines didn't space, just like in the post about this post, so why did you post saying that ?

"
.........

So you're trying a tactic.  What do you want me to point out?  
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 90736
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Reply from lehish
Jan.10.2009
10:26AM EDT 
Email lehish
vertical line Quote: "Quote: "

Quote: "yap yap "
.........

yes you yapped rustic

"
.........

"
.........

Thank you, Sweetie, for sticking up for me.

"
......... 

"
......... 

lovely "Thank you"

gassho

vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 90737
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Reply from lehish
Jan.10.2009
10:30AM EDT 
Email lehish
vertical line

Quote: "There was a response but it seems not to have made the post.   So I won't re-post.  Do you really think that this is about what you call tactic, or is that just another assumption?  "
.........

thinking cannot true, so why are you asking " do you really think" ?

vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 90738
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Reply from lehish
Jan.10.2009
10:32AM EDT 
Email lehish
vertical line Quote: "Quote: "Quote: "Quote: "

testing to see

 if will space the lines

"
.........

"
.........

No idea what you're talking about and I care even less. 

"
.........

"
.........

the post was for testing the spacing of lines...in the post above it the lines didn't space, just like in the post about this post, so why did you post saying that ?

"
.........

So you're trying a tactic.  What do you want me to point out?  

"
.........

"
.........

you still posting assuming

vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 90739
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Reply from ______
Jan.10.2009
10:35AM EDT 
vertical line What?  You don't think?  Try another tactic. 
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 90740
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Reply from lehish
Jan.10.2009
10:38AM EDT 
Email lehish
vertical line

Quote: "What?  You don't think?  Try another tactic. "
.........

forget trying that, rustic...there's nothing to prove

vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 90744
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Reply from ______
Jan.10.2009
10:40AM EDT 
vertical line So stop trying to prove it, assuming I'm trying something to forget. 
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 90746
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Reply from ______
Jan.10.2009
10:43AM EDT 
vertical line Quote: "

Quote: "yap yap "
.........

yes you yapped rustic

"
.........
Jubbly.
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 90747
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Reply from immortal 1
Jan.10.2009
10:48AM EDT 
vertical line Quote: "

Quote: "There was a response but it seems not to have made the post.   So I won't re-post.  Do you really think that this is about what you call tactic, or is that just another assumption?  "
.........

thinking cannot true, so why are you asking " do you really think" ?

"
.........

"
.........

This is why I say, or see, that Lehish has 'understanding'.

Thinking inherently contradicts itself.  Understanding contains both the thought and its contradiction so there is no conflict within it.

If  expand your perception until all is one then you will have understanding, and you will see its contents not as separate opposites but complimentary parts.

vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 90748
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Reply from lehish
Jan.10.2009
10:56AM EDT 
Email lehish
vertical line

Quote: "So stop trying to prove it, assuming I'm trying something to forget. "
.........

shhhhh

vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 90750
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Reply from ______
Jan.10.2009
12:02PM EDT 
vertical line Quote: "Quote: "

Quote: "There was a response but it seems not to have made the post.   So I won't re-post.  Do you really think that this is about what you call tactic, or is that just another assumption?  "
.........

thinking cannot true, so why are you asking " do you really think" ?

"
.........

"
.........

This is why I say, or see, that Lehish has 'understanding'.

Thinking inherently contradicts itself.  Understanding contains both the thought and its contradiction so there is no conflict within it.

If  expand your perception until all is one then you will have understanding, and you will see its contents not as separate opposites but complimentary parts.

"
.........

Shallow thought. 
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 90751
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Reply from lehish
Jan.10.2009
12:07PM EDT 
Email lehish
vertical line

thought cannot substantial to be shallow-deep

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Reply from ______
Jan.10.2009
12:12PM EDT 
vertical line According to Immortal 1 lehish and Immortal 1 have understanding. I asked for an explanation which could not possibly be construed as assumption or as posted assuming "has understanding" was meant the way you posted thinking it was meant, instead of asking. I'm surprised you found it so that difficult to understand, as I understand. 
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 90753
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Reply from ______
Jan.10.2009
12:15PM EDT 
vertical line Quote: "

thought cannot substantial to be shallow-deep

"
.........

Yeah it's a joke lehish.  Based on Immortal 1's claim for the kind of work and thinking [you] do here.  
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 90754
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Reply from ______
Jan.10.2009
01:33PM EDT 
vertical line Quote: "Quote: "Quote: "

Quote: "yap yap "
.........

yes you yapped rustic

"
.........

"
.........

Thank you, Sweetie, for sticking up for me.

"
......... 

"
......... 

lovely "Thank you"

gassho

"
.........

I read through this thread and can't see the relevance of Thank you, Sweetie for sticking up for me.  Have I missed something?  Not assuming otherwise, I thought you were responding to the yap yap post which you quoted.
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 90758
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Reply from lehish
Jan.10.2009
10:49PM EDT 
Email lehish
vertical line Quote: "Quote: "

thought cannot substantial to be shallow-deep

"
.........

Yeah it's a joke lehish.  Based on Immortal 1's claim for the kind of work and thinking [you] do here.  

"
.........

"
.........

"for the kind of work and thinking [you] do here." ....saying that has no foundation..."you" is imagined

vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 90768
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Reply from lehish
Jan.10.2009
10:51PM EDT 
Email lehish
vertical line Quote: "Quote: "Quote: "Quote: "

Quote: "yap yap "
.........

yes you yapped rustic

"
.........

"
.........

Thank you, Sweetie, for sticking up for me.

"
......... 

"
......... 

lovely "Thank you"

gassho

"
.........

I read through this thread and can't see the relevance of Thank you, Sweetie for sticking up for me.  Have I missed something?  Not assuming otherwise, I thought you were responding to the yap yap post which you quoted.

"
.........

"
.........

yes was responding to the yap yap post.... gassho was the response to lovely "Thank you"

vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 90769
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Reply from ______
Jan.10.2009
11:02PM EDT 
vertical line Quote: "Quote: "Quote: "

thought cannot substantial to be shallow-deep

"
.........

Yeah it's a joke lehish.  Based on Immortal 1's claim for the kind of work and thinking [you] do here.  

"
.........

"
.........

"for the kind of work and thinking [you] do here." ....saying that has no foundation..."you" is imagined

"
.........

Yes, that claim has no foundation.   "You" is the plural you as in Immortal 1's the kind of thinking [we] do here.
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 90770
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Reply from ______
Jan.10.2009
11:05PM EDT 
vertical line Quote: "Quote: "Quote: "Quote: "Quote: "

Quote: "yap yap "
.........

yes you yapped rustic

"
.........

"
.........

Thank you, Sweetie, for sticking up for me.

"
......... 

"
......... 

lovely "Thank you"

gassho

"
.........

I read through this thread and can't see the relevance of Thank you, Sweetie for sticking up for me.  Have I missed something?  Not assuming otherwise, I thought you were responding to the yap yap post which you quoted.

"
.........

"
.........

yes was responding to the yap yap post.... gassho was the response to lovely "Thank you"

"
.........
Ah ok. Maybe Immortal 1 will explain. 
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 90771
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Reply from lehish
Jan.10.2009
11:06PM EDT 
Email lehish
vertical line

Quote: "According to Immortal 1 lehish and Immortal 1 have understanding. I asked for an explanation which could not possibly be construed as assumption or as posted assuming "has understanding" was meant the way you posted thinking it was meant, instead of asking. I'm surprised you found it so that difficult to understand, as I understand. "
.........

the response was to this which you posted: "Okay. Lehish has understanding, you have understanding" ....you posted assuming immortal meant "has undertanding" as though he was saying there's an entity which "has understanding" instead of asking if that was how the words were being used

vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 90772
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Reply from lehish
Jan.10.2009
11:07PM EDT 
Email lehish
vertical line Quote: "Quote: "Quote: "Quote: "Quote: "Quote: "

Quote: "yap yap "
.........

yes you yapped rustic

"
.........

"
.........

Thank you, Sweetie, for sticking up for me.

"
......... 

"
......... 

lovely "Thank you"

gassho

"
.........

I read through this thread and can't see the relevance of Thank you, Sweetie for sticking up for me.  Have I missed something?  Not assuming otherwise, I thought you were responding to the yap yap post which you quoted.

"
.........

"
.........

yes was responding to the yap yap post.... gassho was the response to lovely "Thank you"

"
.........
Ah ok. Maybe Immortal 1 will explain. 

"
.........

"
.........

:) ok

vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 90773
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Reply from ______
Jan.10.2009
11:07PM EDT 
vertical line No I didn't.
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 90774
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Reply from lehish
Jan.10.2009
11:10PM EDT 
Email lehish
vertical line Quote: "Quote: "Quote: "Quote: "

thought cannot substantial to be shallow-deep

"
.........

Yeah it's a joke lehish.  Based on Immortal 1's claim for the kind of work and thinking [you] do here.  

"
.........

"
.........

"for the kind of work and thinking [you] do here." ....saying that has no foundation..."you" is imagined

"
.........

Yes, that claim has no foundation.   "You" is the plural you as in Immortal 1's the kind of thinking [we] do here.

"
.........

"
.........

there is imagined you or not, so what plural ?

vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 90775
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Reply from lehish
Jan.10.2009
11:12PM EDT 
Email lehish
vertical line

Quote: "No I didn't."
.........

"Okay. Lehish has understanding, you have understanding"

vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 90776
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Reply from ______
Jan.10.2009
11:14PM EDT 
vertical line The plural that is Immortal 1's we.  And the No I didn't means No I didn't post as you assume, presume, legume.  
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 90777
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Reply from lehish
Jan.10.2009
11:15PM EDT 
Email lehish
vertical line what are you posting as though can pluraling ?
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 90779
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Reply from ______
Jan.10.2009
11:16PM EDT 
vertical line Quote: "

Quote: "No I didn't."
.........

"Okay. Lehish has understanding, you have understanding"

"
.........
Ask Immortal 1 to explain.  He thinks you have understanding. 
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 90780
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Reply from ______
Jan.10.2009
11:17PM EDT 
vertical line Quote: "what are you posting as though can pluraling ?"
.........
I posted in response to a statement made by Immortal 1, with quote.
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 90781
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Reply from lehish
Jan.10.2009
11:18PM EDT 
Email lehish
vertical line Quote: "Quote: "

Quote: "No I didn't."
.........

"Okay. Lehish has understanding, you have understanding"

"
.........
Ask Immortal 1 to explain.  He thinks you have understanding. 

"
.........

"
.........

why are you suggesting that ?

vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 90782
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Reply from lehish
Jan.10.2009
11:19PM EDT 
Email lehish
vertical line Quote: "Quote: "what are you posting as though can pluraling ?"
.........
I posted in response to a statement made by Immortal 1, with quote.

"
.........

"
.........

maybe didn't word clearly...wasn't asking that...was asking what is there as though can plural ?

vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 90783
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Reply from ______
Jan.10.2009
11:21PM EDT 
vertical line Quote: "Quote: "Quote: "

Quote: "No I didn't."
.........

"Okay. Lehish has understanding, you have understanding"

"
.........
Ask Immortal 1 to explain.  He thinks you have understanding. 

"
.........

"
.........

why are you suggesting that ?

"
.........

Not a thing is being suggested.  Immortal 1 made the statement,  I responded to the statement.  I can't speak for Immortal 1.  
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 90784
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Reply from ______
Jan.10.2009
11:22PM EDT 
vertical line Quote: "Quote: "Quote: "what are you posting as though can pluraling ?"
.........
I posted in response to a statement made by Immortal 1, with quote.

"
.........

"
.........

maybe didn't word clearly...wasn't asking that...was asking what is there as though can plural ?

"
.........

Why are you asking that?
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 90785
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Reply from lehish
Jan.10.2009
11:24PM EDT 
Email lehish
vertical line Quote: "Quote: "Quote: "Quote: "

Quote: "No I didn't."
.........

"Okay. Lehish has understanding, you have understanding"

"
.........
Ask Immortal 1 to explain.  He thinks you have understanding. 

"
.........

"
.........

why are you suggesting that ?

"
.........

Not a thing is being suggested.  Immortal 1 made the statement,  I responded to the statement.  I can't speak for Immortal 1.  

"
.........

"
.........

oop...quoted the wrong post...was responding to "Ask Immortal 1 to explain.  He thinks you have understanding"

why were you suggesting asking immortal that ?

vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 90786
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Reply from lehish
Jan.10.2009
11:28PM EDT 
Email lehish
vertical line Quote: "Quote: "Quote: "Quote: "what are you posting as though can pluraling ?"
.........
I posted in response to a statement made by Immortal 1, with quote.

"
.........

"
.........

maybe didn't word clearly...wasn't asking that...was asking what is there as though can plural ?

"
.........

Why are you asking that?

"
.........

"
.........

you're posting as though can pural...what are you suggesting  as though can be puraled ?

vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 90788
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Reply from ______
Jan.10.2009
11:28PM EDT 
vertical line Maybe he thinks he knows what he means, I don't.
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 90787
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Reply from lehish
Jan.10.2009
11:29PM EDT 
Email lehish
vertical line

Quote: "Maybe he thinks he knows what he means, I don't."
.........

maybe

vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 90789
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Reply from ______
Jan.10.2009
11:32PM EDT 
vertical line Quote: "Quote: "Quote: "Quote: "Quote: "what are you posting as though can pluraling ?"
.........
I posted in response to a statement made by Immortal 1, with quote.

"
.........

"
.........

maybe didn't word clearly...wasn't asking that...was asking what is there as though can plural ?

"
.........

Why are you asking that?

"
.........

"
.........

you're posting as though can pural...what are you suggesting  as though can be puraled ?

"
.........

The you and the we were posted in square brackets and italics. 
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 90790
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Reply from ______
Jan.10.2009
11:35PM EDT 
vertical line It's a language thing.  I'm off to bed. 
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 90791
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Reply from lehish
Jan.10.2009
11:39PM EDT 
Email lehish
vertical line Quote: "Quote: "Quote: "Quote: "Quote: "Quote: "what are you posting as though can pluraling ?"
.........
I posted in response to a statement made by Immortal 1, with quote.

"
.........

"
.........

maybe didn't word clearly...wasn't asking that...was asking what is there as though can plural ?

"
.........

Why are you asking that?

"
.........

"
.........

you're posting as though can pural...what are you suggesting  as though can be puraled ?

"
.........

The you and the we were posted in square brackets and italics. 

"
.........

"
.........

was not referring to how was posted

vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 90792
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Reply from lehish
Jan.10.2009
11:41PM EDT 
Email lehish
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Quote: "It's a language thing.  I'm off to bed. "
.........

was referring to language

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Reply from ______
Jan.11.2009
09:46AM EDT 
vertical line Understanding cannot be realised by argument or analysis - he said, she said, you said, they said, we said, or about the use of a language itself. 
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Reply from ______
Jan.11.2009
09:58AM EDT 
vertical line Quote: "Quote: "Quote: "Quote: "Quote: "Quote: "Quote: "what are you posting as though can pluraling ?"
.........
I posted in response to a statement made by Immortal 1, with quote.

"
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"
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maybe didn't word clearly...wasn't asking that...was asking what is there as though can plural ?

"
.........

Why are you asking that?

"
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"
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you're posting as though can pural...what are you suggesting  as though can be puraled ?

"
.........

The you and the we were posted in square brackets and italics. 

"
.........

"
.........

was not referring to how was posted

"
.........

I was.  Do you like this kind of stuff?  Ok.  The square brackets and italics indicate meaning.  Viz - the [you] was a reference to the we which was contained within a quote written by a n other writer - the kind of thinking we do here.  A joke then followed [shallow thought] which you didn't get. Then, a jag on plurals resulted.  Leading further on and on into a big black jelly vortex of goo.
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Reply from lehish
Jan.11.2009
02:39PM EDT 
Email lehish
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relax, rustic...there's not 'getting' nor 'not getting' which you posted

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Reply from ______
Jan.12.2009
09:23AM EDT 
vertical line Don't do it.  And don't need the advice.  That's the thing about jokes.  
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Reply from lehish
Jan.12.2009
11:19AM EDT 
Email lehish
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Quote: "Don't do it.  And don't need the advice.  That's the thing about jokes.  "
.........

shutup...there's nothing for you to try proving about rustic either ?

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Reply from lehish
Jan.12.2009
11:20AM EDT 
Email lehish
vertical line ? is typo
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Reply from ______
Jan.12.2009
11:24AM EDT 
vertical line Quote: "

Quote: "Don't do it.  And don't need the advice.  That's the thing about jokes.  "
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shutup...there's nothing for you to try proving about rustic either ?

"
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haha No. And mind your own business. 
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Reply from ______
Jan.12.2009
11:25AM EDT 
vertical line Quote: "? is typo"
.........

Congratulations. 
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Reply from lehish
Jan.12.2009
11:33AM EDT 
Email lehish
vertical line Quote: "Quote: "

Quote: "Don't do it.  And don't need the advice.  That's the thing about jokes.  "
.........

shutup...there's nothing for you to try proving about rustic either ?

"
.........

haha No. And mind your own business. 

"
.........

"
.........

there isn't any "own business"

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Reply from ______
Jan.12.2009
11:36AM EDT 
vertical line Don't concern about the words, fret, or even read them.  
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Reply from lehish
Jan.12.2009
11:42AM EDT 
Email lehish
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Quote: "Don't concern about the words, fret, or even read them.  "
.........

shhhhhhhh

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Reply from ______
Jan.12.2009
11:44AM EDT 
vertical line Bunsen burner on, pilot light off. 
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Reply from immortal 1
Jan.13.2009
07:26AM EDT 
vertical line Quote: "Quote: "

Quote: "No I didn't."
.........

"Okay. Lehish has understanding, you have understanding"

"
.........
Ask Immortal 1 to explain.  He thinks you have understanding. 

"
.........

"
.........

The explanation is simple. 

When you look around you, how many things do you see?  How many things do you see happening?  How many things have happened?  How many things will happen?

If you 'understand' then the answer is always just one.  When I look around I do not see many things doing many things.  I see one thing being what it is, and even though that changes more times than we can count in a milisecond, it is always just the one thing being what it is at the moment. 

And we are all just a part of it, never separate from it.  It is what it is, and it is being everything. 

The common denominator is one.  Anything over one is just what it is, no more no less.  If there is a secret to the Universe that is what it is.

Seeing is believing.  No one actually believes it until they see it.  All you are doing here is preparing for that moment.

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Reply from ______
Jan.13.2009
07:55AM EDT 
vertical line Ah I see - you don't know what I'm doing here - that would explain why I don't believe you. 
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Reply from lehish
Jan.13.2009
04:11PM EDT 
Email lehish
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Quote: "Ah I see - you don't know what I'm doing here - that would explain why I don't believe you. "
.........

you can't know that either, rustic

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Reply from ______
Jan.13.2009
04:35PM EDT 
vertical line Quote: "

Quote: "Ah I see - you don't know what I'm doing here - that would explain why I don't believe you. "
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you can't know that either, rustic

"
.........

I don't believe you either, lehish. 
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Reply from lehish
Jan.13.2009
09:05PM EDT 
Email lehish
vertical line great :D
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Reply from Woodsman
Jan.13.2009
10:16PM EDT 
Email Woodsman
vertical line Destruction before creation.
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Reply from lehish
Jan.14.2009
03:46AM EDT 
Email lehish
vertical line cannot before
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Reply from immortal 1
Jan.14.2009
07:29AM EDT 
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Quote: "Ah I see - you don't know what I'm doing here - that would explain why I don't believe you. "
.........

I do not think you are doing here what you think you are doing here.

You may simply being amusing yourself by messing with some Buddhists.  Like honking your horn at Nuns in the crosswalk.  Ha ha.

But there is a deeper part of you that has a purpose for you here.  And we will try to oblige.  We have nothing to gain or lose.  Its all the same to us.

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Reply from ______
Jan.14.2009
09:16AM EDT 
vertical line Quote: "

Quote: "Ah I see - you don't know what I'm doing here - that would explain why I don't believe you. "
.........

I do not think you are doing here what you think you are doing here.

You may simply being amusing yourself by messing with some Buddhists.  Like honking your horn at Nuns in the crosswalk.  Ha ha.

But there is a deeper part of you that has a purpose for you here.  And we will try to oblige.  We have nothing to gain or lose.  Its all the same to us.

"
.........

I don't know what I'm doing here.  You don't know what I'm thinking, period.  You may simply be a liar ha ha. You will not oblige or try to oblige me anything.  Understand that if you can.  
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Reply from immortal 1
Jan.15.2009
08:23AM EDT 
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35 years ago I had a friend who was awakened.  I could see that he was different, but could not see why.  He could not explain it.

We talked a great deal about metaphysics.  I asked him what he thought of my views and opinions.  He said, "You are not there yet, but I believe that one day you will be."

It took another 15 years for that to happen, and I became awakened too.  I have tried to find my old friend to say, "Ah, now I see...."  But to no avail.

I'm glad at least that I was not abusive and insulting or I would be trying to find him to apologize for my gross stupidity.

Someday, Rustic, you may want to find me to apologize.  That is okay.  I understand, and I accept your apology in advance.  However, I do not honestly believe that the odds are in favor of your becoming awakened.  You should probably spend your time on something else.

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Reply from ______
Jan.15.2009
08:41AM EDT 
vertical line No.

Thanks for your contribution - most revealing.  Incidentally, who is the us on whose behalf you claim to speak?  

There is no apology for you to accept in advance.  [Someday] I won't want to find you to apologise.  
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Reply from zen-zen
Jan.15.2009
11:57AM EDT 
vertical line I have been trying to contact you Immortal1. I hope I succeed this time. Maybe I can't be successful if the email function here isn't working properly. Who knows.

It's good to see that you've returned from your brief retreat away from zenguide. It takes an awakened person to see if another is awakened.
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Reply from ______
Jan.15.2009
12:20PM EDT 
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Q: It seems that the balanced state being destructive is a paradox.

A: This is a world of duality and perfect balance in this world cannot be achieved.

While one lives in the illusory us versus them world, inner turmoil, the faults and flaws of one’s personality - that which is perceived as wrong within - is projected outward on to them without, and discord reigns. 


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Reply from Woodsman
Jan.15.2009
04:44PM EDT 
Email Woodsman
vertical line Quote: "cannot before"
.........

Nothing before death.
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Reply from lehish
Jan.15.2009
06:28PM EDT 
Email lehish
vertical line what before ?
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Reply from Woodsman
Jan.15.2009
06:37PM EDT 
Email Woodsman
vertical line What ?
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Reply from lehish
Jan.15.2009
06:48PM EDT 
Email lehish
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Quote: "What ? "
.........

was saying what before is there to as though before, not that there's a what or not

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Reply from immortal 1
Jan.16.2009
07:06AM EDT 
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Quote: "I have been trying to contact you Immortal1. I hope I succeed this time. Maybe I can't be successful if the email function here isn't working properly. Who knows.

It's good to see that you've returned from your brief retreat away from zenguide. It takes an awakened person to see if another is awakened.
"
.........

I got your email.  Thanks.  I will respond.

Yes, becoming awakened is like being let in on an inside-joke.

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Reply from immortal 1
Jan.16.2009
07:27AM EDT 
vertical line Quote: "

Q: It seems that the balanced state being destructive is a paradox.

A: This is a world of duality and perfect balance in this world cannot be achieved.

While one lives in the illusory us versus them world, inner turmoil, the faults and flaws of one’s personality - that which is perceived as wrong within - is projected outward on to them without, and discord reigns. 


"
.........

"
.........

Love is merging in the Beloved. This is freedom.  Rustic.

I have been trying to figure out why you are such an unhappy monkey, Rustic, flinging feces at all the other monkeys, while the rest of us are trying to help one another.  But I think I have figured it out from this quoted post of yours from the thread Love.

Along the path we all come to know Buddhas Unbounded Love, as you evidently have too.  That is not awakening, although some think so at the time.  Its actually the greatest hurdle to awakening, because of the temptation to stop there.

Also a problem with finding Buddhas Unbounded Love is wanting to have it all to oneself, as your use of the term Beloved makes me think you do.  But the sunlight and the rain fall on everyone alike, you know.  Jealousy is the shadow of greed, and that is just lousy. 

That is not to say that we do not all have a personal relationship with Buddha.  We do.  But it is Buddha that is special, unique, and deserving of unbounded love, not us.  Like rays of the Sun we are each connected directly to Buddha individually, but every ray of the Sun is likewise connected.  It is something that we all have in common, that we share.  Such is the case with Buddhas Unbounded Love.

There is much more to understanding than Buddhas Unbounded Love.  It is true, but it is only one facet of Buddha.  I suggest you do not stop there.

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Reply from shayne
Jan.16.2009
09:29AM EDT 
Email shayne
vertical line Quote: "Quote: "

Q: It seems that the balanced state being destructive is a paradox.

A: This is a world of duality and perfect balance in this world cannot be achieved.

While one lives in the illusory us versus them world, inner turmoil, the faults and flaws of one’s personality - that which is perceived as wrong within - is projected outward on to them without, and discord reigns. 


"
.........

"
.........

"
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Love is merging in the Beloved. This is freedom.  Rustic.

I have been trying to figure out why you are such an unhappy monkey, Rustic, flinging feces at all the other monkeys, while the rest of us are trying to help one another.  But I think I have figured it out from this quoted post of yours from the thread Love.

Along the path we all come to know Buddhas Unbounded Love, as you evidently have too.  That is not awakening, although some think so at the time.  Its actually the greatest hurdle to awakening, because of the temptation to stop there.

Also a problem with finding Buddhas Unbounded Love is wanting to have it all to oneself, as your use of the term Beloved makes me think you do.  But the sunlight and the rain fall on everyone alike, you know.  Jealousy is the shadow of greed, and that is just lousy. 

That is not to say that we do not all have a personal relationship with Buddha.  We do.  But it is Buddha that is special, unique, and deserving of unbounded love, not us.  Like rays of the Sun we are each connected directly to Buddha individually, but every ray of the Sun is likewise connected.  It is something that we all have in common, that we share.  Such is the case with Buddhas Unbounded Love.

There is much more to understanding than Buddhas Unbounded Love.  It is true, but it is only one facet of Buddha.  I suggest you do not stop there.

"
.........

"
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im not connected to buddha.

im not looking for enlighenment outside myself.

you bring it on yourself.

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Reply from ______
Jan.16.2009
10:51AM EDT 
vertical line Quote: "Quote: "

Q: It seems that the balanced state being destructive is a paradox.

A: This is a world of duality and perfect balance in this world cannot be achieved.

While one lives in the illusory us versus them world, inner turmoil, the faults and flaws of one’s personality - that which is perceived as wrong within - is projected outward on to them without, and discord reigns. 


"
.........

"
.........

Love is merging in the Beloved. This is freedom.  Rustic.

I have been trying to figure out why you are such an unhappy monkey, Rustic, flinging feces at all the other monkeys, while the rest of us are trying to help one another.  But I think I have figured it out from this quoted post of yours from the thread Love.

Along the path we all come to know Buddhas Unbounded Love, as you evidently have too.  That is not awakening, although some think so at the time.  Its actually the greatest hurdle to awakening, because of the temptation to stop there.

Also a problem with finding Buddhas Unbounded Love is wanting to have it all to oneself, as your use of the term Beloved makes me think you do.  But the sunlight and the rain fall on everyone alike, you know.  Jealousy is the shadow of greed, and that is just lousy. 

That is not to say that we do not all have a personal relationship with Buddha.  We do.  But it is Buddha that is special, unique, and deserving of unbounded love, not us.  Like rays of the Sun we are each connected directly to Buddha individually, but every ray of the Sun is likewise connected.  It is something that we all have in common, that we share.  Such is the case with Buddhas Unbounded Love.

There is much more to understanding than Buddhas Unbounded Love.  It is true, but it is only one facet of Buddha.  I suggest you do not stop there.

"
.........


Ok, so I’ll address this nonsense.  Each time I respond to your posts you up the ante.  You ignore, you squirm, you whine and you squeal.  You don’t know what I think.  You don’t know why I’m here. You don’t know whether I’m unhappy.  You don’t know whether I’m happy. 


My happiness/unhappiness comes and goes and is not your concern. There is nothing that I have posted here which could possibly be construed as either helping or not helping anyone, neither hindering nor not hindering someone.  You make bold claims to speak on behalf of an imaginary us. You practise avoidance. You’re upset because I don’t believe you. It seems to bother you that I have not made any definitive statements about what kind of spiritual practice I’ve followed what kind of meditation I practise/have practised, what religion I subscribe to, whether I’m a Buddhist or a non-Buddhist, or whether I’m neither a Buddhist nor a non-Buddhist, or whether I’m neither not a Buddhist nor not a non-Buddhist. You like to label posters on this forum according to your beliefs. At one point you say I’m a shaman, and that you understand why I have a beef with you when there is no such thing as a beef with anyone.  I still don’t know what the discord is that prompted you to start this thread.  What you have demonstrated and continue to demonstrate is an object lesson of an exercise in futility.  


Flinging feces?  Maybe you would like to show me these faeces which you say I’m flinging. If the us on whose behalf you are claiming to speak agrees with you, then I will stop posting on this forum.  The only manipulative stuff I can see which would qualify for faeces is: [actually I’ve got you figured for a cluster B personality disorder, actually, actually, I know what you think of yourself, may have a mental disorder, [if you have] a biochemically caused condition, incapable of abstract thought, [don’t understand] the kind of thought we do here, you don’t like me, you are stupid, you are very stupid, your posts have no inner strength, [whatever that is - seemingly a reaction to my asking you if there is any heart in what you say], you [may be] simply messing with Buddhists, [implication is that you are] abusive and insulting, [I am] expecting an apology . . . the list goes on . . . 


Contrary to your assertion that you find discord unpleasant and wearing, tiring, you seem to thrive on it. 


I’m not arguing about whether you’re awakened or not awakened, or whether you think you are or not, or whether I think you are or not. I’m not arguing about what any of it means.  I am simply saying I don’t believe you.  And with every reactionary click of your jerking knee, your use of metaphorical smoke and mirrors, you countersign that non-belief. 


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Reply from immortal 1
Jan.17.2009
08:06AM EDT 
vertical line Quote: "Quote: "Quote: "

Q: It seems that the balanced state being destructive is a paradox.

A: This is a world of duality and perfect balance in this world cannot be achieved.

While one lives in the illusory us versus them world, inner turmoil, the faults and flaws of one’s personality - that which is perceived as wrong within - is projected outward on to them without, and discord reigns. 


"
.........

"
.........

Love is merging in the Beloved. This is freedom.  Rustic.

I have been trying to figure out why you are such an unhappy monkey, Rustic, flinging feces at all the other monkeys, while the rest of us are trying to help one another.  But I think I have figured it out from this quoted post of yours from the thread Love.

Along the path we all come to know Buddhas Unbounded Love, as you evidently have too.  That is not awakening, although some think so at the time.  Its actually the greatest hurdle to awakening, because of the temptation to stop there.

Also a problem with finding Buddhas Unbounded Love is wanting to have it all to oneself, as your use of the term Beloved makes me think you do.  But the sunlight and the rain fall on everyone alike, you know.  Jealousy is the shadow of greed, and that is just lousy. 

That is not to say that we do not all have a personal relationship with Buddha.  We do.  But it is Buddha that is special, unique, and deserving of unbounded love, not us.  Like rays of the Sun we are each connected directly to Buddha individually, but every ray of the Sun is likewise connected.  It is something that we all have in common, that we share.  Such is the case with Buddhas Unbounded Love.

There is much more to understanding than Buddhas Unbounded Love.  It is true, but it is only one facet of Buddha.  I suggest you do not stop there.

"
.........


Ok, so I’ll address this nonsense.  Each time I respond to your posts you up the ante.  You ignore, you squirm, you whine and you squeal.  You don’t know what I think.  You don’t know why I’m here. You don’t know whether I’m unhappy.  You don’t know whether I’m happy. 


My happiness/unhappiness comes and goes and is not your concern. There is nothing that I have posted here which could possibly be construed as either helping or not helping anyone, neither hindering nor not hindering someone.  You make bold claims to speak on behalf of an imaginary us. You practise avoidance. You’re upset because I don’t believe you. It seems to bother you that I have not made any definitive statements about what kind of spiritual practice I’ve followed what kind of meditation I practise/have practised, what religion I subscribe to, whether I’m a Buddhist or a non-Buddhist, or whether I’m neither a Buddhist nor a non-Buddhist, or whether I’m neither not a Buddhist nor not a non-Buddhist. You like to label posters on this forum according to your beliefs. At one point you say I’m a shaman, and that you understand why I have a beef with you when there is no such thing as a beef with anyone.  I still don’t know what the discord is that prompted you to start this thread.  What you have demonstrated and continue to demonstrate is an object lesson of an exercise in futility.  


Flinging feces?  Maybe you would like to show me these faeces which you say I’m flinging. If the us on whose behalf you are claiming to speak agrees with you, then I will stop posting on this forum.  The only manipulative stuff I can see which would qualify for faeces is: [actually I’ve got you figured for a cluster B personality disorder, actually, actually, I know what you think of yourself, may have a mental disorder, [if you have] a biochemically caused condition, incapable of abstract thought, [don’t understand] the kind of thought we do here, you don’t like me, you are stupid, you are very stupid, your posts have no inner strength, [whatever that is - seemingly a reaction to my asking you if there is any heart in what you say], you [may be] simply messing with Buddhists, [implication is that you are] abusive and insulting, [I am] expecting an apology . . . the list goes on . . . 


Contrary to your assertion that you find discord unpleasant and wearing, tiring, you seem to thrive on it. 


I’m not arguing about whether you’re awakened or not awakened, or whether you think you are or not, or whether I think you are or not. I’m not arguing about what any of it means.  I am simply saying I don’t believe you.  And with every reactionary click of your jerking knee, your use of metaphorical smoke and mirrors, you countersign that non-belief. 


"
.........

Thank you for the above.  You do not have to believe anything.

What has appeared to me in your posts is that you often pop in and say something disparaging about someone elses posts, and then if they say something back you say that they are just projecting their own inner-turmoil onto you.

So that has brought up the question of why you are here if not to help other people on their path, which would seem to be the reason for having a zen forum to begin with.  To which you have responded that the rules of the forum do not say that.  The rules, as you point out, are than anyone can post here for any reason good or bad.  Its a free for all.

You are the one who has written a treatise on Shamanism, in co-authorship with some notables on the subject, evidently, that I have never heard of, but that is okay.  You are the one who has made a drum to entice the spirit of the Raven, and posted a picture of it here.  So that is where I got the idea that you were a practicing Shaman.  And there is nothing wrong with that.  I used to be a Shaman, as I mentioned earlier. 

All paths lead to the top of the mountain, including Shamanism.  For that reason, I am sure you could say many constructive things from a Shamanistic point of view, if you were so inclined.

I do not know if I can help anyone here or not.  Maybe that is like one apple trying to help another apple to ripen.  We are all at different places on our paths.  Maybe we can help each other, and maybe not.  That is why I am here, to help if I can, as well as to enjoy some fellowship with my fellow Buddhists.

You do not have to believe anything.  Buddha knows where to find you.  At a time of Buddhas choosing, if at all, or maybe in another lifetime, you will be shown in dreams or by other means the things that some of us here have already been shown.  But if you get off on being a detractor rather than a contributor, then frankly, who needs it?


My happiness/unhappiness comes and goes and is not your concern. There is nothing that I have posted here which could possibly be construed as either helping or not helping anyone, neither hindering nor not hindering someone.  You make bold claims to speak on behalf of an imaginary us. You practise avoidance. You’re upset because I don’t believe you. It seems to bother you that I have not made any definitive statements about what kind of spiritual practice I’ve followed what kind of meditation I practise/have practised, what religion I subscribe to, whether I’m a Buddhist or a non-Buddhist, or whether I’m neither a Buddhist nor a non-Buddhist, or whether I’m neither not a Buddhist nor not a non-Buddhist. You like to label posters on this forum according to your beliefs. At one point you say I’m a shaman, and that you understand why I have a beef with you when there is no such thing as a beef with anyone.  I still don’t know what the discord is that prompted you to start this thread.  What you have demonstrated and continue to demonstrate is an object lesson of an exercise in futility.  


Flinging feces?  Maybe you would like to show me these faeces which you say I’m flinging. If the us on whose behalf you are claiming to speak agrees with you, then I will stop posting on this forum.  The only manipulative stuff I can see which would qualify for faeces is: [actually I’ve got you figured for a cluster B personality disorder, actually, actually, I know what you think of yourself, may have a mental disorder, [if you have] a biochemically caused condition, incapable of abstract thought, [don’t understand] the kind of thought we do here, you don’t like me, you are stupid, you are very stupid, your posts have no inner strength, [whatever that is - seemingly a reaction to my asking you if there is any heart in what you say], you [may be] simply messing with Buddhists, [implication is that you are] abusive and insulting, [I am] expecting an apology . . . the list goes on . . . 


Contrary to your assertion that you find discord unpleasant and wearing, tiring, you seem to thrive on it. 


I’m not arguing about whether you’re awakened or not awakened, or whether you think you are or not, or whether I think you are or not. I’m not arguing about what any of it means.  I am simply saying I don’t believe you.  And with every reactionary click of your jerking knee, your use of metaphorical smoke and mirrors, you countersign that non-belief. 


"
.........

"
.........

Thank you for the above.  You do not have to believe anything.

What has appeared to me in your posts is that you often pop in and say something disparaging about someone elses posts, and then if they say something back you say that they are just projecting their own inner-turmoil onto you.

So that has brought up the question of why you are here if not to help other people on their path, which would seem to be the reason for having a zen forum to begin with.  To which you have responded that the rules of the forum do not say that.  The rules, as you point out, are than anyone can post here for any reason good or bad.  Its a free for all.

You are the one who has written a treatise on Shamanism, in co-authorship with some notables on the subject, evidently, that I have never heard of, but that is okay.  You are the one who has made a drum to entice the spirit of the Raven, and posted a picture of it here.  So that is where I got the idea that you were a practicing Shaman.  And there is nothing wrong with that.  I used to be a Shaman, as I mentioned earlier. 

All paths lead to the top of the mountain, including Shamanism.  For that reason, I am sure you could say many constructive things from a Shamanistic point of view, if you were so inclined.

I do not know if I can help anyone here or not.  Maybe that is like one apple trying to help another apple to ripen.  We are all at different places on our paths.  Maybe we can help each other, and maybe not.  That is why I am here, to help if I can, as well as to enjoy some fellowship with my fellow Buddhists.

You do not have to believe anything.  Buddha knows where to find you.  At a time of Buddhas choosing, if at all, or maybe in another lifetime, you will be shown in dreams or by other means the things that some of us here have already been shown.  But if you get off on being a detractor rather than a contributor, then frankly, who needs it?

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