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  P'ang Yun (740-808) was a well known Chinese Zen Layman.
He was once selling bamboo baskets. Coming down off the a bridge, he stumbled and fell.
When Ling-chao saw this she ran to her father's side and threw herself down.
"... continue...

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→→→→ vertical line TOPIC: A MILE A MINUTE
vertical line Posted on Nov.19.2008 @ 09:18PM EDT by theduncan

Hi,

 

First time caller. 

 

I noticed in my meditation today all the continuing duality.  And so it went…thoughts came, thoughts went, and periodically I would finally notice this and get back to one, two, three…

 

My little bell rang and as I stood up it hit me.  I always regard my meditations as periods of unabashed, convoluted thought (bad) interspersed with brief, very brief moments of just breathing (good).

 

I guess I’m saying that I view my zazen still as alternating between thinking and non-thinking and haven’t yet seemed to be able to get under the notion of just thinking non-thinking…Still hanging with good meditation, bad meditation. 

 

Seeing this, I think will help me.  Any..uhhhh…thoughts?  Does nonsense this make?
Go to Latest Reply   Reply to this Topic   Email theduncan
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Reply from boopoom
Nov.19.2008
10:58PM EDT 
Email boopoom
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you make me smile..... you know what happen... to you....

$i= you;

while ($i = !emty ){

                   $i = thinking;

                    $i++

                              }

: )

peace,boopoom

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Reply from theduncan
Nov.19.2008
11:42PM EDT 
Email theduncan
vertical line :)

what it i$




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Reply from ______
Nov.20.2008
08:25AM EDT 
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Hello theduncan

On the out-breath, I ask the question, "Who am I?" and on the in-breath, wait for the answer.


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Reply from -----0
Nov.20.2008
11:52AM EDT 
vertical line why do you ask the question?
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Reply from theduncan
Nov.20.2008
12:28PM EDT 
Email theduncan
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funny...was trying to "figure out" your response yesterday $i.  Today I see my post on another computer with code included?  I copied my post from word, as it started as self musing...

..still is I suppose.

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Reply from theduncan
Nov.20.2008
12:29PM EDT 
Email theduncan
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Quote: "why do you ask the question?"
.........

no one else is asking

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Reply from kelvintan
Nov.20.2008
01:05PM EDT 
Email kelvintan
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No getting back to one, two, three..

No little bell ringing to tell you when to stop

No hanging with good, bad meditation

Thoughts Hunting Engagement. Delusion Unwind. Consider Awareness Non- attachment

Do not expect anything in return.

With Metta

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Reply from Lynnoh
Nov.20.2008
03:22PM EDT 
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hello

<  :)

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Reply from ______
Nov.20.2008
06:03PM EDT 
vertical line Quote: "why do you ask the question?"
.........

In order to destroy the thought. 
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 89831
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Reply from ______
Nov.20.2008
06:25PM EDT 
vertical line Quote: "why do you ask the question?"
.........

In order to enquire.
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Reply from ______
Nov.20.2008
06:28PM EDT 
vertical line Quote: "why do you ask the question?"
.........

I don't know.
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Reply from ______
Nov.20.2008
06:30PM EDT 
vertical line Quote: "

Quote: "why do you ask the question?"
.........

no one else is asking"

.........

Who is asking?
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Reply from ______
Nov.21.2008
07:33AM EDT 
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Of course, here is breathing, here is breath, so I don’t literally ask the question Who am I? The rustic response was a rustic-paraphrase of the original post.  


Happened a subsequent four I response - every one a different I, everyone a loser, baby - not the same I that woke up this morning and got out of bed.  I contradicts nature.  I is not true. 

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Reply from 9999999
Nov.21.2008
11:05AM EDT 
Email 9999999
vertical line If a guy wanted a hobby to pass the time or something to distract him from some other pressing issues then he would close the door, turn off the lights, close his eyes, plug his ears, cross his legs, and keep meditating until his skin fell off.

If a guy wanted some real answers then he might consider taking an honest look at his situation, wipe that smile off his face, and start asking better questions.
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Reply from -----0
Nov.21.2008
11:54AM EDT 
vertical line Quote: "

Quote: "why do you ask the question?"
.........

no one else is asking

"
.........

"
.........

Sorry, I was not specific enough. I did not mean your question.

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Reply from -----0
Nov.21.2008
12:01PM EDT 
vertical line I stopped asking questions, because they eventually produce answers
and answers tend to be sheer delusions
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Reply from Lynnoh
Nov.21.2008
01:22PM EDT 
Email Lynnoh
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Quote: "I stopped asking questions, because they eventually produce answers
and answers tend to be sheer delusions
"
.........

then from where did you find this answer?

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Reply from zen-zen
Nov.22.2008
08:46AM EDT 
vertical line TheDuncan,

All that you said about your practice is okay. You seem to perceive that there is a problem somewhere but I do not quite see where. Good practice versus bad practice, why the division? Just a practice, so no reason to get frustrated. Try not to scratch the itch but observe it. Remember, the goal is already here so there's nothing to reach for and actually no goal at all. We're usually too careless and negligent to notice.
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Reply from emancipate
Nov.22.2008
11:08AM EDT 
vertical line Tried "walking meditation"? When there is a goal (a destination) of importance, the mind will 'auto-correct' when it strays. Similar to focussing on an object...
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Reply from -----0
Nov.22.2008
03:34PM EDT 
vertical line Quote: "

Quote: "I stopped asking questions, because they eventually produce answers
and answers tend to be sheer delusions
"
.........

then from where did you find this answer?

"
.........

"
.........

it was not found, it just popped out

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Reply from ______
Nov.22.2008
04:33PM EDT 
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Our limitless capacity for questioning, as children, is extinguished or ignored, in favour of a learned compulsion for answering. 

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Reply from -----0
Nov.22.2008
04:55PM EDT 
vertical line a spontaneous echoing
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Reply from -----0
Nov.22.2008
04:58PM EDT 
vertical line children question because their parents pretend to have the answers
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Reply from emancipate
Nov.23.2008
10:12AM EDT 
vertical line Quote: "children question because their parents pretend to have the answers"
.........

Be careful who you trust. ;)
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Reply from theduncan
Nov.23.2008
04:18PM EDT 
Email theduncan
vertical line Quote: "I stopped asking questions, because they eventually produce answers
and answers tend to be sheer delusions
"
.........

...and breed more questions.  I do have questions, but I don't ask "who am I?"  I don't need yet another answer to that one.
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Reply from theduncan
Nov.23.2008
04:22PM EDT 
Email theduncan
vertical line Quote: "TheDuncan,

All that you said about your practice is okay. You seem to perceive that there is a problem somewhere but I do not quite see where. Good practice versus bad practice, why the division? Just a practice, so no reason to get frustrated. Try not to scratch the itch but observe it. Remember, the goal is already here so there's nothing to reach for and actually no goal at all. We're usually too careless and negligent to notice.
"
.........

  Yes...I'm a thirsty fish.

Thank  you :)
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Reply from theduncan
Nov.23.2008
04:25PM EDT 
Email theduncan
vertical line Quote: "Tried "walking meditation"? When there is a goal (a destination) of importance, the mind will 'auto-correct' when it strays. Similar to focussing on an object... "
.........

Not much.  Though, I thought the idea was to be walking without destination.
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Reply from theduncan
Nov.23.2008
04:28PM EDT 
Email theduncan
vertical line I like this forum.

Thanks everyone.
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Reply from theduncan
Nov.23.2008
04:38PM EDT 
Email theduncan
vertical line Quote: "

Quote: "I stopped asking questions, because they eventually produce answers
and answers tend to be sheer delusions
"
.........

then from where did you find this answer?

"
.........

Rising sun, warm blanket
I sit with my questions
Birds sing the answers
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Reply from -----0
Nov.23.2008
05:29PM EDT 
vertical line

by carefully observing birds
one learns their language

and then this sound of music
is gone

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Reply from ______
Nov.23.2008
06:22PM EDT 
vertical line if you are entertaining
remember that dry bread 
is enough

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Reply from 9999999
Nov.24.2008
02:41AM EDT 
Email 9999999
vertical line assumptions
answers
and questions
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Reply from ______
Nov.24.2008
07:30AM EDT 
vertical line Some questions aren't really questions - they are devices used to prepare the ground for answering. 
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Reply from zen-zen
Nov.24.2008
07:50AM EDT 
vertical line Duncan, I like the writings on this forum too. It's sometimes very pleasant. I think someone wrote something about walking meditation up there. That's a good idea I think. A little variation is always welcome. Then again, why limit yourself to walking? I think you could do much more. :)
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Reply from ______
Nov.24.2008
07:59AM EDT 
vertical line Why use one question mark when a swarming host of 'em will do the job?
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Reply from emancipate
Nov.24.2008
08:05AM EDT 
vertical line Quote: "Some questions aren't really questions - they are devices used to prepare the ground for answering. "
.........

The answer has to conform to the logic of the questioner. In most cases, the answer is implied or inferable within the logic of the question, but insecurity drives the question.

Most of the time, the answer we are familiar with - the one we dread - we avoid passionately. If you can think of the question, but avoid providing an answer, it means the answer you have is unsatisfactory.

Sugar-coating tastes sweeter when it's a gift from someone else.

Have a nice day. ;)
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Reply from Lynnoh
Nov.24.2008
01:23PM EDT 
Email Lynnoh
vertical line Quote: "Quote: "

Quote: "I stopped asking questions, because they eventually produce answers
and answers tend to be sheer delusions
"
.........

then from where did you find this answer?

"
.........

"
.........

it was not found, it just popped out

"
.........

"
.........

hahaha 

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Reply from Lynnoh
Nov.24.2008
01:28PM EDT 
Email Lynnoh
vertical line when thought went backward..experiencing the answer before the question..realizing just how quickly we use what we know before what we don't
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Reply from -----0
Nov.24.2008
03:04PM EDT 
vertical line if the answer has no words, how can you ask its question?
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Reply from theduncan
Nov.24.2008
03:32PM EDT 
Email theduncan
vertical line sit down and shut up
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Reply from 9999999
Nov.24.2008
06:31PM EDT 
Email 9999999
vertical line Quote: "Some questions aren't really questions - they are devices used to prepare the ground for answering. "
.........
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Reply from ______
Nov.25.2008
07:45AM EDT 
vertical line Quote: "Quote: "I stopped asking questions, because they eventually produce answers
and answers tend to be sheer delusions
"
.........

...and breed more questions.  I do have questions, but I don't ask "who am I?"  I don't need yet another answer to that one.
"
.........

Who are you?
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Reply from ______
Nov.25.2008
07:46AM EDT 
vertical line Quote: "Quote: "I stopped asking questions, because they eventually produce answers
and answers tend to be sheer delusions
"
.........

...and breed more questions.  I do have questions, but I don't ask "who am I?"  I don't need yet another answer to that one.
"
.........

Why do you practice zazen?
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Reply from Lynnoh
Nov.25.2008
01:38PM EDT 
Email Lynnoh
vertical line Quote: "Quote: "Quote: "I stopped asking questions, because they eventually produce answers
and answers tend to be sheer delusions
"
.........

...and breed more questions.  I do have questions, but I don&apos;t ask "who am I?"  I don&apos;t need yet another answer to that one.
"
.........

Who are you?

"
.........

"
.........

maybe he is the president

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Reply from -----0
Nov.25.2008
02:30PM EDT 
vertical line a username
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Reply from theduncan
Nov.25.2008
03:01PM EDT 
Email theduncan
vertical line Quote: "Quote: "Quote: "I stopped asking questions, because they eventually produce answers
and answers tend to be sheer delusions
"
.........

...and breed more questions.  I do have questions, but I don't ask "who am I?"  I don't need yet another answer to that one.
"
.........

Who are you?
"
.........
I dunno.  Some guy.
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Reply from theduncan
Nov.25.2008
03:05PM EDT 
Email theduncan
vertical line Quote: "Quote: "Quote: "I stopped asking questions, because they eventually produce answers
and answers tend to be sheer delusions
"
.........

...and breed more questions.  I do have questions, but I don't ask "who am I?"  I don't need yet another answer to that one.
"
.........

Why do you practice zazen?
"
.........
Practice makes perfect.  Hmmm.  I endeavor to understand but not engage a series of questioned answers.


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Reply from -----0
Nov.25.2008
03:09PM EDT 
vertical line everything is already perfect
you can't make it any better
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Reply from theduncan
Nov.25.2008
07:26PM EDT 
Email theduncan
vertical line Yes, perfect.  Interesting that we call it practice though.  
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Reply from theduncan
Nov.25.2008
07:29PM EDT 
Email theduncan
vertical line Yes, perfect.  Interesting that we call it practice though.  
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Reply from zen-zen
Nov.26.2008
06:29AM EDT 
vertical line So let's give it a name: Practice. Oh no! Practice is the problem now.

Or could it be perhaps the means to get rid of the "naming problem"?
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Reply from emancipate
Nov.26.2008
07:11AM EDT 
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Quote: "So let&apos;s give it a name: Practice. Oh no! Practice is the problem now.

Or could it be perhaps the means to get rid of the "naming problem"?
"
.........

"It" was a good enough for me.

But let me tell you about the "naming problem"... damn!

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Reply from zen-zen
Nov.26.2008
09:37AM EDT 
vertical line hahaha :D

Can't stop smiling now.
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Reply from Lynnoh
Nov.26.2008
03:00PM EDT 
Email Lynnoh
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Quote: "Yes, perfect.  Interesting that we call it practice though.   "
.........

then why do you call it twice?

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Reply from theduncan
Nov.26.2008
06:19PM EDT 
Email theduncan
vertical line Clearly, I'm out of practice.  No practice, no problem.  Just do it.

Thank you
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Reply from -----0
Nov.27.2008
12:14PM EDT 
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now go back to practice . . .

                                and

do not expect anything in return

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