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  Posted on Sep.06.2009 @ 09:29AM EDT by chontri
In the teachings it says that:
"All compounded things are like dreams,
illusions, bubbles, and shadows;
they are like dew and like lightning,
and should be seen in... continue...

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→→→→ vertical line TOPIC: MEDITATION IS A WASTE OF MY TIME
vertical line Posted on Jan.04.2009 @ 11:47PM EDT by six2ten
This was written to a friend, though I edited it a bit for a couple offensive words:

So I put my blanket on the floor next to the wall, I put my pillow down, and I sat. The method of meditation I followed is to count your breaths. It's very very simple to do, but one of the most difficult things to do. It requires a lot of concentration. The goal is to keep your eyes open, your body completely still and focus on nothing but your breathing. The method I choose is I breath in and mentally note '1.' Then hold concentration on that exhale, carry it over to the next inhale to which I mentally note '2' and continue to 10. Once you get to 10 you start over. If at any point you lose concentration you start over from 1.

I've meditated many times before and I thought I made it to 10 many times to just repeat it. I realized late last night that I never got close to 10, I just kept counting anyways.

It's also worth noting that sometimes if I'll meditate for awhile the deepest I feel I've gotten is that I will lose sight of the world. My vision will fade and just become black and it would start to go to white, but I would immediatly lose focus upon this happening before. It's hard to not become distracted at such a visual cue. I don't think it's anything mystical, I'm quite sure it's just my eyes glazing over, but all the same it is a clear distraction and from my subjective point of view I can say nothing more than 'my site has dissapeared' but logic tells me, that my eyes have just glazed over so if asked what physically happens, that's it.

So, sorry for the lengthy back story, but back to the (then) present. I'm sitting. I am very figidty and reluctant to start counting. I notice my shadow projected on the wall from the chandalier. It bothers me, but I tell myself to just sit. I notice myself keep doing things such as scratching my leg, rubbing the blanket, etc. Each time I catch myself and I say 'hey, don't do that you,' Those words echo in my head until they eventually fade, then I find myself doing something else. That damn shadow is bothering me, it's off center. I think maybe if I ceneter it so it's in line with my vision this will be less distracting.

So I reposition the blanket, the pillow, and again I sit. I start counting, '1'. The next I don't know.. 20-30 minutes are rather a blur, but nothing significant happened. I kept counting, losing concentration and continuing the cycle and then I hear myself say '3' and it's all gone. It's just blackness, but not quite 'black' more 'nothing' but I still knew I was sitting my in room, I just saw 'nothing' or 'not nothing.' I derive this only in reflection because it would sometimes be white, and sometimes be black. I figure it can't be both, so it must be neither.

Immediatly when I lost sight it made me happy at my achievement and I lost concentration. Upon losing concentration I associated what I saw with black. I kept getting to 3 for the next.. I really don't know. Anywhere from 1-10 minutes, time was rather meaningless and it became harder and harder to count. Then 4.

Upon 4 the world was back. I saw myself sitting there. The world was the same world it always was, I knew it, but it looked different. It was draped in darkness, it very gloomy and depressing. It was not quite 'bad' but just... not right, something was off here. I could detect fear was nearby, but I was detached from it, but it was warning me not to come closer. I was of course determined that I would, but as always, I lost count.

Upon noting 4, I was amazed that I had reached a new level. 'Wow, there is more' I thought. Followed by another 'shut up you, count!' which reverberated in my head until it faded to only repeat the cycle. I worked on 4 for another 10 minutes or so. If I recall it wasn't much more difficult than 3, but it was unsettling. The more times I reached 4 the more I took from it, and the less inclined I was to go back, yet no less determined. It just did not feel like I belonged. Something did not want me to be there. Internally I felt just as calm as I was on 1, 2, and 3, but I noticed myself moving around, itching, twitching etc. much more than on 1, 2, or 3. I'd sometimes mumble even as I remember it. I felt emotionally dead in this world, I think that is why it was gloomy. I was 'looking at the world without emotion.' But hey, screw that, so I reached 5.

Upon reaching 5 I lunged backwards. I was cold. I have never experienced terror to such a deep level in my life. I was shaking. I felt like death. At the same time there was a very faint, quiet echo of howling in laughter at the situation. It was faint, but it was no less detectable than the fear. They were both me. I was laughing at the completely ludicrousness of the situation.

Upon reaching 5 I saw myself fade away. I saw deeper into it. It wasn't me, and just like one of those trick videos where you are told to turn the volume up I realized I was staring at a dead girl. She looked exactly like the girl from the ring. Still just her silhouette, but a dead girl is a dead girl and logic tells me dead girls should not be coming out of my wall.

I sat there in fear for a good minute or so. Baffled. Completely confused, what was I supposed to do. There was nothing in the world that I wanted to do at that moment other than reach 10. It was the most simple thing I could do, practically the only, it was the only thing I had a desire to do, but it was the most difficult thing I had ever had to do.

Distraught is a good word to put here. Still internally I felt completely calm, but on the outside I was on the brink of insanity. I immediately wanted to tell someone.

Someone had imed me on aim, so I started rambling to him. The only reason I mention that is because he tried to convince me to confront that girl, and one thing he said was 'go talk to her.'

From the time I decided to sit until when I was actually sitting it took me about 20-45 minutes. I remember it took me about 5 minutes to even lay the blanket down on the floor. After I stood up I'd just switch between staring at the wall, pacing, sighing, throwing my hands up in the air or anything but sitting. Once that was on the floor it got even worse. I found myself questioning... questioning without caring what the answer is, just answering with more questions. I'd find myself going to the bathroom. I somehow peed twice within 5 minutes, and I remember thinking I needed to pee yet again, I told myself 'no, that's rediculous' that thought reverberated and then I found myself sitting.

I looked around and thought 'How did I get here' 'why,' but I knew why, and I remembered sitting down. 'Why did I ask those questions' Oh the constant questioning, it must stop. And then I reached 5 again.

This time I saw the same girl, but she was not scary. Before I had described her as the girl from from the ring, but she was not. I realized she was just a girl in a nightgown floating in space. Not in space, but not. Not nothing, but 'not nothing' Just her. her. Still though, just a sillouhette, but not scary. And I heard a resonating echo of thought that reverberated out of my mouth to form the faintest sound I've ever heard, yet the only one going on in that instant: 'what'

And then a slight giggle. I then realized I had giggled because I saw the girl and asked her 'what.' I talked to her and said the only word that came to mind. This was proposterious. I had spent the last hour and a half to see myself turn into a girl and only to ask a pointless question I didn't expect an answer to.

 This whole ordeal I should say lasted from about 4:00 until about 5:30 which is when I'd say I officially gave up. Though I wouldn't have said that at the time, but only looking back I would assign that moment. If life were a book that would be the end of a chapter, once I sat for the last time.
Go to Latest Reply   Reply to this Topic
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Reply from sd3fvi
Jan.05.2009
02:17AM EDT 
vertical line Sounds like you need a teacher.
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 90600
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Reply from 9999999
Jan.05.2009
07:27AM EDT 
Email 9999999
vertical line If a guy wanted a hobby to pass the time or something to distract him from some other pressing issues...then he would close the door, turn off the lights, light a candle, close his eyes, plug his ears, cross his legs, and keep meditating until his skin falls off.

If a guy wanted some real answers then he might consider taking an honest look at his situation, wiping that smile off his face, and start asking better questions.



I remember thinking something along the lines of, "Once I stop having thoughts then I'll meditate all day and become enlightened."

I even drove 6 hours to see a guru visiting from India to ask him how to quiet the mind, and he said, "focus on your breath and practice my yoga." lol...I feel like smacking that bumbling idiot.

Does anyone have a problem with that? A problem with me wanting to smack that fool right here and now?
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 90604
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Reply from ______
Jan.05.2009
09:41AM EDT 
vertical line Quote: "Sounds like you need a teacher. "
.........
Metal Guru is it you? 
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 90605
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Reply from ______
Jan.05.2009
09:55AM EDT 
vertical line yeah yeah yeah metal guru is it you yeah yeah yeah metal guru
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 90609
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Reply from six2ten
Jan.05.2009
10:42AM EDT 
vertical line Quote: "If a guy wanted a hobby to pass the time or something to distract him from some other pressing issues...then he would close the door, turn off the lights, light a candle, close his eyes, plug his ears, cross his legs, and keep meditating until his skin falls off.

If a guy wanted some real answers then he might consider taking an honest look at his situation, wiping that smile off his face, and start asking better questions.



I remember thinking something along the lines of, "Once I stop having thoughts then I'll meditate all day and become enlightened."

I even drove 6 hours to see a guru visiting from India to ask him how to quiet the mind, and he said, "focus on your breath and practice my yoga." lol...I feel like smacking that bumbling idiot.

Does anyone have a problem with that? A problem with me wanting to smack that fool right here and now?
"

Sounds like you just got 6 hours further from the answer.
.........
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 90610
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Reply from ______
Jan.05.2009
10:57AM EDT 
vertical line A work of art, one word, three syllables, sounds like, the whole thing . . .
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 90611
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Reply from kelvintan
Jan.05.2009
11:25AM EDT 
Email kelvintan
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Simply Inhale X-perience 2 The Exhalation Naturally

Ever mindfully he breathes in, and ever mindfully he breathes out.

With Metta

vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 90612
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Reply from 9999999
Jan.05.2009
03:22PM EDT 
Email 9999999
vertical line Quote: "Quote: "If a guy wanted a hobby to pass the time or something to distract him from some other pressing issues...then he would close the door, turn off the lights, light a candle, close his eyes, plug his ears, cross his legs, and keep meditating until his skin falls off.

If a guy wanted some real answers then he might consider taking an honest look at his situation, wiping that smile off his face, and start asking better questions.



I remember thinking something along the lines of, "Once I stop having thoughts then I'll meditate all day and become enlightened."

I even drove 6 hours to see a guru visiting from India to ask him how to quiet the mind, and he said, "focus on your breath and practice my yoga." lol...I feel like smacking that bumbling idiot.

Does anyone have a problem with that? A problem with me wanting to smack that fool right here and now?
"

Sounds like you just got 6 hours further from the answer.
.........
"
.........

It does sound that way.  But it was 6 hours I seemed to have to travel before understanding that the answer was never not here.
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 90617
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Reply from 9999999
Jan.05.2009
03:24PM EDT 
Email 9999999
vertical line Or that, there is no answer.  There is only the question.  And when the question is gone..
...well.
.....uh...
...
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 90618
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Reply from Lynnoh
Jan.05.2009
03:28PM EDT 
Email Lynnoh
vertical line what?
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 90619
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Reply from Lynnoh
Jan.05.2009
03:40PM EDT 
Email Lynnoh
vertical line oh... now that I've read...not wasting my time to read your writing
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Reply from ______
Jan.05.2009
04:09PM EDT 
vertical line The faq was answering in the car.
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 90621
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Reply from ______
Jan.05.2009
04:10PM EDT 
vertical line Ordeal by faq.
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 90622
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Reply from immortal 1
Jan.07.2009
08:06AM EDT 
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Quote: "Quote: "If a guy wanted a hobby to pass the time or something to distract him from some other pressing issues...then he would close the door, turn off the lights, light a candle, close his eyes, plug his ears, cross his legs, and keep meditating until his skin falls off.

If a guy wanted some real answers then he might consider taking an honest look at his situation, wiping that smile off his face, and start asking better questions.



I remember thinking something along the lines of, "Once I stop having thoughts then I'll meditate all day and become enlightened."

I even drove 6 hours to see a guru visiting from India to ask him how to quiet the mind, and he said, "focus on your breath and practice my yoga." lol...I feel like smacking that bumbling idiot.

Does anyone have a problem with that? A problem with me wanting to smack that fool right here and now?
"

Sounds like you just got 6 hours further from the answer.
.........
"
.........

I've had dreams, premonitions, and visions since I was a baby. But I tried to push them away in my youth because kids want most to be normal.

I became interested in meditation the old fashioned way:  Because I fell for a girl who was into meditation.  So I took the practice up seriously at 20, in 1974, and have been at it ever since.  The girl and I split up, but I kept up the meditation.  Although she did not keep it up.  We're still friends though and see each other from time to time.  We've talked about getting back together someday, or just being companions.  Who knows?  We will see.

I cannot think of a better thing to do when I go to bed.  Its better than thinking about all the stuff of daily life until I fall asleep.  So I prefer lying zazen.  Sometimes I just fall asleep. Sometimes I have great dreams or visions.  Whatever.  Buddha knows where to find me.

If meditation has a purpose it is to let go of all of your worldly tensions and relax for awhile.  Purge yourself of worldly concerns for awhile.  Let go of everything and let yourself drift in the cosmic consciousness for awhile.  Then when you return to your worldly affairs you will be rested, focused, and more able and ready to deal with things.

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Reply from ______
Jan.07.2009
08:16AM EDT 
vertical line This topic is entitled Meditation is a waste of my time.  Furthermore, meditation is good for nothing - you'll probably read that as a negative, or something not positive.
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 90650
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Reply from zen-zen
Jan.07.2009
09:13AM EDT 
vertical line Two men meet on the street.
One asks the other: "Hi, how are you?"
The other one replies: "I'm fine, thanks."
"And how's your son? Is he still unemployed?"
"Yes, he is. But he is meditating now."
"Meditating? What's that?"
"I don't know. But it's better than sitting around and doing nothing!"
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 90653
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Reply from Lynnoh
Jan.07.2009
01:11PM EDT 
Email Lynnoh
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Quote: "Two men meet on the street.
One asks the other: "Hi, how are you?"
The other one replies: "I'm fine, thanks."
"And how's your son? Is he still unemployed?"
"Yes, he is. But he is meditating now."
"Meditating? What's that?"
"I don't know. But it's better than sitting around and doing nothing!"
"
.........

guy leaving office says to security guard sitting at desk in hallway

"gee you must have the best job"

security guard, "yeah, " and says something about sleep

"can you read a book?"

"no just get to sit and look at the wall all day"

"oh, so you mediatate?"

"no, don't know how, but I should learn"

vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 90654
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Reply from -----0
Jan.07.2009
01:32PM EDT 
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The numbers are not important. Just keep counting for few minutes. Don't start from zero if concentrations fails. Then go on without counting. Concentrate of the sensations of the breath around your nostrils. And don't go for any hallucinations. Don't expect anything. 15 minutes is enough for the start.

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Reply from IZIZIZ
Jan.08.2009
07:08AM EDT 
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What did Tarzan say when he saw the elephants coming over the hill?

He said.

Look, here come the elephants over the hill.

vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 90659
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Reply from shayne
Jan.08.2009
09:47AM EDT 
Email shayne
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halllucinations are not uncommon in practice at first.

and dead girls if they kill ya you can always haunt them back.

haha.

giving up is the common thing to do.

perhaps the discipline of zen is not for you.

but i must say artifical discipline is not the way.

self realization of the mind is.

grasp this and you got it.

to realize you MADE this girl.

thats the trick.

projections are projections anyway.

vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 90664
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Reply from Lynnoh
Jan.08.2009
02:18PM EDT 
Email Lynnoh
vertical line Quote: "

What did Tarzan say when he saw the elephants coming over the hill?

He said.

Look, here come the elephants over the hill.

"
.........

"
.........

hahaha

vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 90668
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