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  A monk asked the Chinese Ch'an master Chien Paling:
-What is the difference between the meaning of the Sutras and that of the Patriarch?
The master replied:
-When it is cold, hen would go up on a tree and duck down to water. more...

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→→→→ vertical line TOPIC: NAYSAYING
vertical line Posted on Jan.07.2009 @ 01:29PM EDT by ______

Not two negates the perspective that divides the whole into two parts, [dualism]; not one negates the perspective of living in the whole as one, [non-dualism]. Movement between [the concept] not one and [the concept] not two, intimates a third perspective which is neither dualism or non-dualism, neither not one nor not two.



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Reply from -----0
Jan.07.2009
01:44PM EDT 
vertical line Scholars like the beauty of concepts being sorted out clearly. It puts THINGS into their proper places. Makes life easier.
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 90656
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Reply from immortal 1
Jan.08.2009
07:07AM EDT 
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Yes I recall Chon Tri saying here once:  Not two, but also not just one.

There is a phone outlet here at work that someone has put an adaptor on so that it is now two outlets.  I look at it and think to myself, Not two, but also not just one.

Without a good intellectual base, I am not sure that one could get very far in this pursuit.  It takes a lot of concentration.  But there comes a time when the intellect is of little further use. 

There are hard facts.  There are open-ended questions.  Eventually everything will be open-ended.

It takes a hard beak to break out of the shell, so it is good to have one.  But after that you will need wings to fly because you cannot stay in the nest forever.

vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 90658
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Reply from IZIZIZ
Jan.08.2009
07:19AM EDT 
vertical line How would you describe the experience of that third perspective?
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 90660
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Reply from zen-zen
Jan.08.2009
09:02AM EDT 
vertical line Generally, if I get the initial posting correctly, it feels like ordinary life. It's just that everything comes with a feeling of first time impression. It's as if one saw everything for the first time. Completely sober, one feels a bit lighter than usually. There is a slight sense of vividness in all aspects of reality.
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Reply from shayne
Jan.08.2009
09:29AM EDT 
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actually i dont get it.

not one?

not two?

what are we talking here people?

if your talking the yin and the yang then its two in one.

if you say everything is openended and the possiabliites are endless well then i say go and make a time machine.

this is an impossiability.

not everything is openended.

for instance you either believe in time or you dont.

you either believe in evil or you dont.

with clarity comes the ability to decipher truth from fiction.

not everything is welcome.

its like the concepts of the subconscious the id the ego and the superego. all concepts. all false. all made up.

vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 90662
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Reply from ______
Jan.08.2009
12:20PM EDT 
vertical line Not one, not two: the positionless position. A holistic perspective in cognition. Neither not one nor not two - a thing-event happening before your very eyes, under your very feet, in the palm of your very hand, the placeless place, ring-a-ling-a-ding-dong.  Written in your sky, I'm here and I'm already gone. 

vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 90666
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Reply from Lynnoh
Jan.08.2009
02:08PM EDT 
Email Lynnoh
vertical line Quote: "Not one, not two: the positionless position. A holistic perspective in cognition. Neither not one nor not two - a thing-event happening before your very eyes, under your very feet, in the palm of your very hand, the placeless place, ring-a-ling-a-ding-dong.  Written in your sky, I'm here and I'm already gone. 

"
.........

"
.........

hahahahaha

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Reply from ______
Jan.09.2009
09:13AM EDT 
vertical line ] hahahahahahaha~hahahahahahahaha [
Doing the right thing while appearing to do the wrong thing in the right place?
Doing the wrong thing while apearing to do the right thing in the wrong place?
And when I say I'm wrong, I'm right. 

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Reply from Woodsman
Jan.09.2009
10:21AM EDT 
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vertical line ha choo choo
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 90714
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Reply from 9999999
Jan.09.2009
03:35PM EDT 
Email 9999999
vertical line Pissed my pants and slipped in the mud

Didn't make it to the bathroom as quickly as you did Woods.
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 90718
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Reply from Woodsman
Jan.09.2009
07:31PM EDT 
Email Woodsman
vertical line I pee peace signs in the snow. And today the symbol was... peace. Yesterday it was pumpkins. So, I pee for peace on pumpkins.
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 90721
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Reply from so_teh
Jan.12.2009
08:12PM EDT 
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hahah

OK so the term that is being referred to here is [Shunyata]

The body being shunyata, the arms in mudra.

......... Silent Illumination .........

Peace

sit_teh

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Reply from immortal 1
Jan.14.2009
07:44AM EDT 
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Symptomologic of mental disorders is Black & White concrete thinking.

Also an inability to understand abstract thinking, and therefore believing that such is foolishness.

I used to have a cat that would sit on the radiator under the kitchen table and reach its paw up onto the table.  We would just move the food.  It would pop its head up, get a new bearing on the food, and try again.  Evidently its logic was that if it could not see us then we could not see it.   Of course we could see it quite clearly. 

This is a case where we can see you, but you cannot see us.  But we mean you no ill.  We will try to help you to understand what we are doing here.

If  you have a biochemically caused condition that results in Black & White concrete thinking you will not get this stuff.  I hope a cure is found for you, if this applies to you, but otherwise better luck in your next lifetime.

This preparation will not hurt you and may help later.

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Reply from ______
Jan.14.2009
09:14AM EDT 
vertical line Quote: "

Symptomologic of mental disorders is Black & White concrete thinking.

Also an inability to understand abstract thinking, and therefore believing that such is foolishness.

I used to have a cat that would sit on the radiator under the kitchen table and reach its paw up onto the table.  We would just move the food.  It would pop its head up, get a new bearing on the food, and try again.  Evidently its logic was that if it could not see us then we could not see it.   Of course we could see it quite clearly. 

This is a case where we can see you, but you cannot see us.  But we mean you no ill.  We will try to help you to understand what we are doing here.

If  you have a biochemically caused condition that results in Black & White concrete thinking you will not get this stuff.  I hope a cure is found for you, if this applies to you, but otherwise better luck in your next lifetime.

This preparation will not hurt you and may help later.

"
.........

Ah well.  You appear to be fixated on mental disorders, personality disorders, this and that disability and you don't understand neither not one nor not two which as any Zen Buddhist will tell you has nothing to do with Black & White concrete thinking, rather the opposite, as in fluid and nameless. Never mind.  Am I to presume the we mean you no ill refers to the royal we, or do you have someone in particular in mine.  

I see you alright that's why I don't believe you, not a word.  
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Reply from ______
Jan.14.2009
09:25AM EDT 
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Ah well.  You appear to be fixated on mental disorders, personality disorders, this and that disability and you don't understand neither not one nor not two which as any Zen Buddhist will tell you has nothing to do with Black & White concrete thinking, rather the opposite, as in fluid and nameless. Never mind.  Am I to presume the we mean you no ill refers to the royal we, or do you have someone in particular in mind.  

I see you alright that's why I don't believe you, not a word.  
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Reply from shayne
Jan.14.2009
10:50AM EDT 
Email shayne
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id rather have "concrete" thinking then this obscure "everything is a possiablity" thinking.

remember we see you too.

and i see a very imaginative person.

meeting with lucifer?

if you have had vivid encounters with meeting lucifer i doubt you would have survived.

the sickest of the sick? the most deprived?

nah bud.

you come to a zen buddhist website.

this is YOUR imagination.

i should know imagination.

at the height of my bipolar i was having very vivid hallucinations.

also thought i was sharing with others.

projecting you might say.

surely you can see " past " your own mind and view yourself from a reflective state of mind and judge yourself?

i find it highly interesting i can do this for myself.

do you question what you think?

over self confidance is also not a good thing.

vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 90907
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Reply from ______
Jan.14.2009
11:06AM EDT 
vertical line Meeting with lucifer?  
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 90910
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Reply from shayne
Jan.14.2009
11:07AM EDT 
Email shayne
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yeah donny said he has had visions of meeting with lucifer and pan and jesus and buddha.

haha.

vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 90911
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Reply from ______
Jan.14.2009
11:10AM EDT 
vertical line Ah ok, so you were responding to Immortal 1?
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 90912
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Reply from shayne
Jan.14.2009
11:13AM EDT 
Email shayne
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pan is greek mythology.

haahhahahahhahhaha.

vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 90913
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Reply from shayne
Jan.14.2009
11:22AM EDT 
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Quote: "Ah ok, so you were responding to Immortal 1?"
.........

yes....of course.

vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 90914
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Reply from ______
Jan.14.2009
11:22AM EDT 
vertical line The idea of lucifer has been confused with the idea of satan.  

vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 90915
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Reply from ______
Jan.14.2009
11:24AM EDT 
vertical line Quote: "

Quote: "Ah ok, so you were responding to Immortal 1?"
.........

yes....of course.

"
.........
Ok. I have to go. 
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 90916
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Reply from shayne
Jan.14.2009
11:24AM EDT 
Email shayne
vertical line Quote: "The idea of lucifer has been confused with the idea of satan.  

"
.........

"
.........

their not one in the same?

vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 90917
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Reply from Woodsman
Jan.14.2009
12:26PM EDT 
Email Woodsman
vertical line Angel/devil.
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 90918
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Reply from Woodsman
Jan.14.2009
12:46PM EDT 
Email Woodsman
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                                      National Bestseller

                                       Stephen Batchelor
                                       bestselling author of Buddhism without beliefs

                                       Living With The Devil

                                       A Mediation on Good and Evil






vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 90919
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Reply from Woodsman
Jan.14.2009
01:55PM EDT 
Email Woodsman
vertical line oops, I left out a T in mediation, must be the Jesus in me
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 90920
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Reply from 9999999
Jan.14.2009
04:42PM EDT 
Email 9999999
vertical line I've had to clean up your poo 3 times this week woods! At least my dogs poo in the same spot in the yard....you do it all over the place!
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 90925
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Reply from 9999999
Jan.14.2009
04:43PM EDT 
Email 9999999
vertical line Crap! I didn't know you worked nights.
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 90926
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Reply from Woodsman
Jan.14.2009
04:48PM EDT 
Email Woodsman
vertical line Oh good, put me in the mood. I'm workin' tonightso I'll do a great job. Poopie doopie mu?
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 90928
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Reply from immortal 1
Jan.15.2009
08:40AM EDT 
vertical line Quote: "Quote: "The idea of lucifer has been confused with the idea of satan.  

"
.........

"
.........

their not one in the same?

"
.........

"
.........

Check out the movie Mr. Frost.  True story, as they say?  Maybe.

vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 90935
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