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  One day when P'ang layman (740-808)was selling bamboo baskets at the market place of Hung-chou.
Seeing a monk begging alms, he took out a cash and said:
-Can you tell me how to appreciate alms?
The monk had nothing to say.
P'ang... continue...

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→→→→ vertical line TOPIC: DIRECT TRANMISSION OF THE DHARMA
vertical line Posted on Jan.19.2009 @ 10:36AM EDT by shayne

zaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaapppppppppppppppppppppp!

you have each received direct trasmission from me.

yes me.

the average joe.

ok kidding aside.

their is no direct transmission other then direct observation.

direct observation of ourselves and the world about us.

a flower is just still a flower.

and i expect no other name for it.

no beating around the bush.

the end.


Go to Latest Reply   Reply to this Topic   Email shayne
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Reply from -----0
Jan.19.2009
01:55PM EDT 
vertical line Shayne's lineage?
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 91099
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Reply from shayne
Jan.19.2009
06:40PM EDT 
Email shayne
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forget lineage.

its a question of pride.

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Reply from IZIZIZ
Jan.20.2009
07:28AM EDT 
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How about direct experience??

Do the many experiences have a name or is naming them a new experience?

Paradox again.

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Reply from zen-zen
Jan.20.2009
09:34AM EDT 
vertical line Shobogenzo is good reading, I hope you like it: http://www.thezensite.com/zenwritings/understandingShobogenzo.pdf
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 91120
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Reply from -----0
Jan.20.2009
04:19PM EDT 
vertical line OK, Shayne, how does one recognize the clarity of direct observation?
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 91125
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Reply from shayne
Jan.20.2009
07:58PM EDT 
Email shayne
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Quote: "OK, Shayne, how does one recognize the clarity of direct observation?"
.........

to me.....the more focused you are the more clearer your mind becomes.

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Reply from 9999999
Jan.20.2009
09:05PM EDT 
Email 9999999
vertical line cmon now shane who do you think you're foolin'~
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 91129
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Reply from 9999999
Jan.20.2009
09:06PM EDT 
Email 9999999
vertical line If I were a greedy man I'd say:

no clarity
no mind
no focus
just aware
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 91130
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Reply from immortal 1
Jan.21.2009
03:41AM EDT 
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Quote: "Shayne's lineage?"
.........

I am sorry Shayne, but you are not there yet.

You may think that you have understanding, because you have found clarity in your own mind, but that is not it.

Clarity is not Understanding.

Believe me, when you get it you will know.

vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 91133
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Reply from shayne
Jan.21.2009
10:04AM EDT 
Email shayne
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so says don and that makes it true eh?

hahahahhaha.

vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 91145
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Reply from 9999999
Jan.21.2009
11:47AM EDT 
Email 9999999
vertical line If you're both reading then you're both aware.


Don thinks he's special and shayne just likes to think.


vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 91146
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Reply from immortal 1
Jan.22.2009
06:19AM EDT 
vertical line Quote: "

so says don and that makes it true eh?

hahahahhaha.

"
.........

"
.........

Shayne, I am sorry, I owe you an apology.  You have claimed to have had a Satori experience and to be awakened and it is not for me to doubt you.  I am not a Zen Master.  It is not for me to say.  I am not important.  I do not matter.

(Satori (???) (? Chinese ; Korean ?) is a Japanese Buddhist term for enlightenment. The word literally means "understanding". It is sometimes loosely used interchangeably with Kensho, but Kensho refers to the first perception of the Buddha-Nature or True-Nature, sometimes referred to as "awakening". Distinct from kensho, which is not a permanent state of enlightenment but a clear glimpse of the true nature of existence, satori is used to refer to a "deep" or lasting state of enlightenment. It is therefore customary to use the word satori, rather than kensho, when referring to the enlightened states of the Buddha and the Patriarchs.)

It is generally accepted in Zen Buddhism that awakening can only come through a Satori experience.  It is not an itellectual thing.  One cannot simply surmise in ones own mind that:  I think I am awakened, therefore I am

(If you have had an experience and you are not sure if it was Satori or not, then it was probably Kensho.  Satori leaves no doubt, because there is nothing left.)

I apologize especially because to claim to have had a Satori experience when one has not is one of the worst offenses a Zen Monk can commit, and on thinking of it later I realized how horrible it would be to falsely accuse you of something so serious.

Gautama Buddha is/was not the only Buddha.  The world is full of Buddhas, and always has been.  A Buddha is anyone who has become awakened through a Satori experience.  I have met and confered with a few.  Everyones experience seems to have been different, tailor made for them it appears, but yet each and every one has arrived at the same Understanding.

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Reply from immortal 1
Jan.22.2009
06:26AM EDT 
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Quote: "If you're both reading then you're both aware.


Don thinks he's special and shayne just likes to think.


"
.........

Oh yes, I am so special.  It is hard to tear myself away from the mirror long enough to write a few words here. 

Buddha is special.  The rest of us spinoffs are equally unimportant.


Thats the great thing about Zen.  It is the great leveler.  Everyone and everything is equal.

Only Buddha is special, and of course God is not God to God.  So to Buddha, no one is special.  We all just are.

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Reply from zen-zen
Jan.22.2009
08:30AM EDT 
vertical line Nothing special! :)
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Reply from shayne
Jan.22.2009
09:29AM EDT 
Email shayne
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all are unique.

each a world unto themselves.

each a universe.

today at work.

told a fella i was gonna throw him in a box and ship him out.

hawaii went through my head.

i asked him where too?

he said hawaii.

hahahahhahahahha.

at the tender age of 13 i discovered my own mind.

vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 91170
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Reply from shayne
Jan.22.2009
09:52AM EDT 
Email shayne
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told my daughter one time.

think anything you want and ill quess it.

she thought about fishes blowing bubbles.

i told her.

i was correct.

vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 91175
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Reply from ______
Jan.22.2009
10:09AM EDT 
vertical line Quote: "Nothing special! :)"
.........

What is it that you say is nothing special? What is it? How did it get here. What are you? How did you get here?
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 91179
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Reply from ______
Jan.22.2009
10:25AM EDT 
vertical line When donning clothes they only understand that they are donning clothes: when eating they only understand that they are eating; in all their activities they are deceived by appearances. Hence they use the sublime function every day but do not realise it; it is right before their eyes but they are not aware of it.

~Chinul
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Reply from ______
Jan.22.2009
10:32AM EDT 
vertical line Because it is so very close, you cannot get this truth out of your eyes. If you try to receive it by stirring your mind, you have already missed it by eighteen thousand miles.

~Ta-hui
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 91187
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Reply from Woodsman
Jan.22.2009
10:32AM EDT 
Email Woodsman
vertical line OMy Gooseness, just got the coolest dehydrator, temp controlled, and over 5X the power. Man, it's wet in here... poor grapes. 
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 91188
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Reply from ______
Jan.22.2009
10:45AM EDT 
vertical line I'm waiting to breathe - might never happen.
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 91190
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Reply from ______
Jan.22.2009
10:49AM EDT 
vertical line By their grapes . . .
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Reply from Woodsman
Jan.22.2009
11:35AM EDT 
Email Woodsman
vertical line 1 hour in and they're turnin' brown, and that sweet scent makes you want to breathe it in, and out, but without desire for more.
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 91192
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Reply from lehish
Jan.22.2009
11:29PM EDT 
Email lehish
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Quote: "It is not for me to say."
.........

gassho

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Reply from immortal 1
Jan.23.2009
06:43AM EDT 
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Quote: "1 hour in and they're turnin' brown, and that sweet scent makes you want to breathe it in, and out, but without desire for more. "
.........

I'm guessing Cinnamon Buns.

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Reply from immortal 1
Jan.23.2009
06:50AM EDT 
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Quote: "Quote: "Nothing special! :)"
.........

What is it that you say is nothing special? What is it? How did it get here. What are you? How did you get here?
"
.........

Logically, notwithstanding any inherent timelessness of nothingness, eternity goes as far backwards as it does forwards, and space goes as far inward as it does outward.

Long and short, big and small, are relative references that belong to duality since they are nothing without comparison.

Re: that space goes as far inwards as outwards.  That is provable.  Cut anything in half, throw one half away and cut the other half in half, throw half away and cut the other half in half, throw half away and....endlessly.

So nothiness has no beginning or end, no inside, no outside, no on, or around, etc, etc.

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Reply from immortal 1
Jan.23.2009
07:06AM EDT 
vertical line Quote: "

told my daughter one time.

think anything you want and ill quess it.

she thought about fishes blowing bubbles.

i told her.

i was correct.

"
.........

"
.........

I know this about you Shayne, and it has nothing to do with being awakened or not, or being Bi-polar or not.  I'm psychic too, as many have had occaision to note in my life.  We've talked about this stuff before.  And you can be Bi-polar and psychic at the same time.  They are not mutually exclusive.  They are entirely different things, although they may affect each other.  Being awakened is entirely different too, and affects everything about you, yet you remain essentially the same person you were before.

I try to keep being psychic to myself, except when recounting something annecdotally, as I have here sometimes.  When I get a premonition or prophetic dream I wait quietly to see what will happen.  If its a warning I keep an eye out.  I usually do not bet on it, although I have been known to bet my life if necessary, and I am alive because I did.  Some things, like talking in tongues in my sleep, have been seen by many other people.  I am mostly an empath.  I feel everything around me all the time, but I do not usually notice it until something catches my attention. 

I have been that way all my life, as long as I can remember, but I have only been awakened since 1990, and I well recall the particular event.  I have been back to the Void of that 'Nothingness' many times since then.  It is like Home to me.  It where I come from.  Its where we all come from.  Becoming awakened is not so much learning as it is remembering.

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Reply from immortal 1
Jan.23.2009
07:09AM EDT 
vertical line Quote: "

Quote: "1 hour in and they're turnin' brown, and that sweet scent makes you want to breathe it in, and out, but without desire for more. "
.........

I'm guessing Cinnamon Buns.

"
.........

"
.........

Oh, should have seen the post about the dehydrator first.  Grapes, eh?

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Reply from immortal 1
Jan.23.2009
07:11AM EDT 
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Quote: "If you're both reading then you're both aware.


Don thinks he's special and shayne just likes to think.


"
.........

I like to think too.

I think I am like a Cheerio, wholesome and good.

Shayne, on the other hand, is a Fruit Loop.

We are both good, he is just much more colorful than I am.

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Reply from ______
Jan.23.2009
09:22AM EDT 
vertical line The true man of no rank is neither good nor not good, has no expectation of others whatsoever, much less foisting demands on them.
..........................

"What is awakening?" asked a monk.
"Get out!" said Te-shan, "Don't defecate here."
"And Buddha?" persisted the monk.
"An old Indian beggar," said Te-shan, "'Awakening' and 'nirvana' are posts to tether donkeys. The scriptural canon was written by devils; it's just paper for wiping infected skin boils. None of these things will save you."

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Reply from ______
Jan.23.2009
09:53AM EDT 
vertical line When people with “spiritual goals” who exhibit a passion for telling the world they are "awakened" or appear at pains to tell others they are "here to help", even perhaps to "enlighten”others, it is clear they are incapable of doing any of those things in a real manner, however fine the exterior machinery might appear.
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Reply from ______
Jan.23.2009
10:14AM EDT 
vertical line Quote: "

Quote: "Quote: "Nothing special! :)"
.........

What is it that you say is nothing special? What is it? How did it get here. What are you? How did you get here?
"
.........


Logically, notwithstanding any inherent timelessness of nothingness, eternity goes as far backwards as it does forwards, and space goes as far inward as it does outward.


Long and short, big and small, are relative references that belong to duality since they are nothing without comparison.


Re: that space goes as far inwards as outwards.  That is provable.  Cut anything in half, throw one half away and cut the other half in half, throw half away and cut the other half in half, throw half away and....endlessly.


So nothiness has no beginning or end, no inside, no outside, no on, or around, etc, etc.

"
.........

Why do you reply to questions which weren't asked of you?
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 91239
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Reply from M T Ness
Jan.31.2009
05:09PM EDT 
Email M T Ness
vertical line Here's a link to a complete English translation for your enhanced bedtime reading....enjoy

MT
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Reply from M T Ness
Jan.31.2009
05:10PM EDT 
Email M T Ness
vertical line http://www.shastaabbey.org/shobogenzo1.htm
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 91598
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Reply from Master Zen
Feb.02.2009
04:12AM EDT 
Email Master Zen
vertical line .... there is direct transmission of the Divine Light/Love Bliss
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 91665
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Reply from shayne
Feb.03.2009
10:32AM EDT 
Email shayne
vertical line Quote: "

Quote: "If you're both reading then you're both aware.


Don thinks he's special and shayne just likes to think.


"
.........

I like to think too.

I think I am like a Cheerio, wholesome and good.

Shayne, on the other hand, is a Fruit Loop.

We are both good, he is just much more colorful than I am.

"
.........

"
.........

actually its the other way around.

you speak of talking to pan and jesus and such.

think about it.

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Reply from shayne
Feb.03.2009
10:33AM EDT 
Email shayne
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Quote: ".... there is direct transmission of the Divine Light/Love Bliss"
.........

im sorry.............their isnt.

vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 91705
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Reply from Lynnoh
Feb.03.2009
01:40PM EDT 
Email Lynnoh
vertical line Quote: "

Quote: "If you're both reading then you're both aware.


Don thinks he's special and shayne just likes to think.


"
.........

I like to think too.

I think I am like a Cheerio, wholesome and good.

Shayne, on the other hand, is a Fruit Loop.

We are both good, he is just much more colorful than I am.

"
.........

"
.........

"crunch" "crunch"

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Reply from Lynnoh
Feb.03.2009
01:42PM EDT 
Email Lynnoh
vertical line wow what is this?
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 91708
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Reply from Lynnoh
Feb.03.2009
01:50PM EDT 
Email Lynnoh
vertical line Quote: "

all are unique.

each a world unto themselves.

each a universe.

today at work.

told a fella i was gonna throw him in a box and ship him out.

hawaii went through my head.

i asked him where too?

he said hawaii.

hahahahhahahahha.

at the tender age of 13 i discovered my own mind.

"
.........

"
.........

it's just a Rustic place?

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Reply from CrazyHorse
Feb.03.2009
06:52PM EDT 
vertical line I  think  like  Lao Tzu noted  those  who  know  don't  speak.
I  speak  more  than necessary. 
I  would  guess that  those  who  do not  speak
understand  completely  that  everything is  completely alright.
Death, life, what  do  they matter.

There  I  go  speaking  again. 
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Reply from 9999999
Feb.03.2009
09:01PM EDT 
Email 9999999
vertical line most who dont speak are full of garbage and just like to pretend

but the one who can't speak can't pretend

"those who know don't speak and those who speak don't know" didn't stop him from writing the tao te ching.
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 91718
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Reply from 9999999
Feb.03.2009
09:02PM EDT 
Email 9999999
vertical line most who speak are usually full of garbage as well





Just kidding.

there is no one but the one
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 91719
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Reply from lehish
Feb.03.2009
11:24PM EDT 
Email lehish
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Quote: "I  think  like  Lao Tzu noted  those  who  know  don't  speak.
I  speak  more  than necessary. 
I  would  guess that  those  who  do not  speak
understand  completely  that  everything is  completely alright.
Death, life, what  do  they matter.

There  I  go  speaking  again. 
"
.........

buddha spoke

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Reply from lehish
Feb.03.2009
11:25PM EDT 
Email lehish
vertical line

Quote: " most who dont speak are full of garbage and just like to pretend

but the one who can't speak can't pretend

"those who know don't speak and those who speak don't know" didn't stop him from writing the tao te ching.
"
.........

:)))))

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Reply from CrazyHorse
Feb.04.2009
11:10AM EDT 
vertical line Quote: " most who dont speak are full of garbage and just like to pretend

but the one who can't speak can't pretend

"those who know don't speak and those who speak don't know" didn't stop him from writing the tao te ching.
"
.........

I  have  read  that  too and  I  thought  the idea that he  was  being  contradictory by doing  so missed  the  point  altogether.
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Reply from Woodsman
Feb.04.2009
04:20PM EDT 
Email Woodsman
vertical line Present moment award goes to...! Aww... crap! Come up and claim it, sir.
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 91735
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Reply from lehish
Feb.04.2009
06:01PM EDT 
Email lehish
vertical line

Quote: "Quote: " most who dont speak are full of garbage and just like to pretend

but the one who can't speak can't pretend

"those who know don't speak and those who speak don't know" didn't stop him from writing the tao te ching.
"
.........

I  have  read  that  too and  I  thought  the idea that he  was  being  contradictory by doing  so missed  the  point  altogether.
"
.........

if there isn't thinking-constant, seeking constant,  no thinking-compariing, idea-contradiction ("being contradictory") isn't thought

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Reply from immortal 1
Feb.05.2009
06:50AM EDT 
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Quote: "The true man of no rank is neither good nor not good, has no expectation of others whatsoever, much less foisting demands on them.
..........................

"What is awakening?" asked a monk.
"Get out!" said Te-shan, "Don't defecate here."
"And Buddha?" persisted the monk.
"An old Indian beggar," said Te-shan, "'Awakening' and 'nirvana' are posts to tether donkeys. The scriptural canon was written by devils; it's just paper for wiping infected skin boils. None of these things will save you."

"
.........

There is no hope of salvation.  And Gautama was an old Indian beggar, who died eating rotten meat which had been given to him. 

The world is bull of buddhas.  I know a few.  None of us will be saved.  There is nothing from which we need to be saved.  There is nothing that we need.

But knowing that is the source of our content, which we try to share to  no avail.

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Reply from immortal 1
Feb.05.2009
07:05AM EDT 
vertical line Quote: "Quote: "

Quote: "If you're both reading then you're both aware.


Don thinks he's special and shayne just likes to think.


"
.........

I like to think too.

I think I am like a Cheerio, wholesome and good.

Shayne, on the other hand, is a Fruit Loop.

We are both good, he is just much more colorful than I am.

"
.........

"
.........

actually its the other way around.

you speak of talking to pan and jesus and such.

think about it.

"
.........

"
.........

I have had a lot of interesting experiences in meditation, and I encourage other people not to block out these things.  Let it be, see where it takes you.  Be curious, and see what you learn.

I believe in everything, and nothing, at the same time.  I can say that I have had these experiences, but what they are, or are not, I do not attest.  I do not say what is or is not, or what is true or is not true. 

It is what we experience.  Why should anything be more or less real than that.

I do not believe that there is a static reality that applies to everyone, although it is clear that many share common experiences which we call reality.

As a disability advocate I sometimes went into hearings with clients that had brought their imaginary friends for support.  Okay, I thought, that isn't real to me, but it is real to them. 

Cops often find that the more witnesses there are the harder it is to figure things out because everyone saw something different.  Why is that?

Its about function, not perspective.  There is no law against having eccentric views, and freedom of religion is the law.  You do not have to believe or not believe anything, as long as you keep your affairs in order and do not break the law.  But If you present a danger to yourself or others you will probably get locked up.   That is how people get into trouble, not because of what they believe or do not believe.

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Reply from shayne
Feb.05.2009
07:11AM EDT 
Email shayne
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actually there is but one reality.

i dont believe in anything save that which is.

and that is our immeditate surroundings and the self.

i dont NEED to believe in anything else.

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Reply from shayne
Feb.05.2009
07:30AM EDT 
Email shayne
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their is a static reality.

our thinking gets in the way.

when our thoughts do not coincide with reality then their is problems.

zen is good.

reality is better.

we made zen.

or more precisly guatama made it up.

do you ( DON ) think guatama made zen or not?

the word?

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Reply from shayne
Feb.05.2009
07:39AM EDT 
Email shayne
vertical line Quote: "

Quote: "The true man of no rank is neither good nor not good, has no expectation of others whatsoever, much less foisting demands on them.
..........................

"What is awakening?" asked a monk.
"Get out!" said Te-shan, "Don't defecate here."
"And Buddha?" persisted the monk.
"An old Indian beggar," said Te-shan, "'Awakening' and 'nirvana' are posts to tether donkeys. The scriptural canon was written by devils; it's just paper for wiping infected skin boils. None of these things will save you."

"
.........

There is no hope of salvation.  And Gautama was an old Indian beggar, who died eating rotten meat which had been given to him. 

The world is bull of buddhas.  I know a few.  None of us will be saved.  There is nothing from which we need to be saved.  There is nothing that we need.

But knowing that is the source of our content, which we try to share to  no avail.

"
.........

"
.........

actually you said direct transmission of the dharma is possible. this transmission is " saving" it is awakening.

so you JUST contradicted yourself don.

think about it.

when you can and when you do just admit it.

itll bring you one step closer to your own awakening.

DONT believe everything is possible.

it isnt.

now having an ephaniney or " turning about of mind " is.

no shame in admitting your wrong.

afterall zen is a learning experience.

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Reply from Woodsman
Feb.05.2009
08:49AM EDT 
Email Woodsman
vertical line                                 t
                                        t
                                                   t
                                                                  t
                                                                                                              t
                                                                                                                                                                      t
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Reply from CrazyHorse
Feb.05.2009
04:34PM EDT 
vertical line Quote: "Present moment award goes to...! Aww... crap! Come up and claim it, sir. "
.........

Awards  are  like  flowers  picked.
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 91789
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Reply from lehish
Feb.05.2009
11:06PM EDT 
Email lehish
vertical line Quote: "Quote: "

Quote: "The true man of no rank is neither good nor not good, has no expectation of others whatsoever, much less foisting demands on them.
..........................

"What is awakening?" asked a monk.
"Get out!" said Te-shan, "Don't defecate here."
"And Buddha?" persisted the monk.
"An old Indian beggar," said Te-shan, "'Awakening' and 'nirvana' are posts to tether donkeys. The scriptural canon was written by devils; it's just paper for wiping infected skin boils. None of these things will save you."

"
.........

There is no hope of salvation.  And Gautama was an old Indian beggar, who died eating rotten meat which had been given to him. 

The world is bull of buddhas.  I know a few.  None of us will be saved.  There is nothing from which we need to be saved.  There is nothing that we need.

But knowing that is the source of our content, which we try to share to  no avail.

"
.........

"
.........

actually you said direct transmission of the dharma is possible. this transmission is " saving" it is awakening.

so you JUST contradicted yourself don.

think about it.

when you can and when you do just admit it.

itll bring you one step closer to your own awakening.

DONT believe everything is possible.

it isnt.

now having an ephaniney or " turning about of mind " is.

no shame in admitting your wrong.

afterall zen is a learning experience.

"
.........,

"
.........,

"learning" ?

vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 91805
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Reply from Woodsman
Feb.05.2009
11:47PM EDT 
Email Woodsman
vertical line Wanna drink? To bee or not to bee, that is the honey.
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 91809
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Reply from immortal 1
Feb.06.2009
04:03AM EDT 
vertical line Quote: "Quote: "Quote: "

Quote: "The true man of no rank is neither good nor not good, has no expectation of others whatsoever, much less foisting demands on them.
..........................

"What is awakening?" asked a monk.
"Get out!" said Te-shan, "Don't defecate here."
"And Buddha?" persisted the monk.
"An old Indian beggar," said Te-shan, "'Awakening' and 'nirvana' are posts to tether donkeys. The scriptural canon was written by devils; it's just paper for wiping infected skin boils. None of these things will save you."

"
.........

There is no hope of salvation.  And Gautama was an old Indian beggar, who died eating rotten meat which had been given to him. 

The world is bull of buddhas.  I know a few.  None of us will be saved.  There is nothing from which we need to be saved.  There is nothing that we need.

But knowing that is the source of our content, which we try to share to  no avail.

"
.........

"
.........

actually you said direct transmission of the dharma is possible. this transmission is " saving" it is awakening.

so you JUST contradicted yourself don.

think about it.

when you can and when you do just admit it.

itll bring you one step closer to your own awakening.

DONT believe everything is possible.

it isnt.

now having an ephaniney or " turning about of mind " is.

no shame in admitting your wrong.

afterall zen is a learning experience.

"
.........,

"
.........,

"learning" ?

"
.........

"
.........

The one of us who is right here is Lehish.  There is nothing to learn, because It is changing all the time.  You just have to move with the changes.

You and I, Shane, are simply approaching the same thing from different perspectives.  Neither of us is right, neither of us is wrong.  And it doesn't matter anyway.  I do not believe that you have had a Satori experience, but you do have a good intellectual grasp of Zen Buddhism.  You also have concrete, black & white 2d thinking which is symptomatic of your Bi Polar condition, which is to be expected.

Everyone lives in their own world.  Eventually we all need to have our own little Copernican Revolution and realize that everything does not revolve around us.

There is no concrete reality that applies to everyone.  We are all elements of the one consciousness interfacing with other elements of the same thing.  We share some experiences in common, but we are all still very different.  It is interesting to share experiences, but it is only our own experiences that should matter to us.

I can say what I have experienced.  You can say what you have experienced.  There is no need for either of us to accept the others experience as their reality, because we have our own reality to deal with. 

That is the only one that matters, our own reality.  And as we interface with other peoples realities we should do it in a way that is most beneficial to everyone.

As for being saved, from what?  For what?  Why?  Is not a desire to be saved a desire for permanence? 

Do you really want to be human forever?  It is a physical condition that applies here and now, on this planet, at this time, but what about a billion years from now?  What about even longer than that, after the Sun has swallowed the Earth and become a Dwarf Star.  Do you still want to be human then?  How is that supposed to work?

Or do you not want to be doing something that works with the current circumstances of that time rather that hanging on to what you have now, which you do not even like anyway?

I believe, based on my own experiences, for the purposes of my own reality, which does not need to apply to anyone elses reality, that the Universal Consciousness is alive and well and does not need to be saved.  I am just an element of that consciousness, like something that it typed on the screen, and I do not need to be saved either. 

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Reply from immortal 1
Feb.06.2009
04:10AM EDT 
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Quote: "                                t
                                        t
                                                   t
                                                                  t
                                                                                                              t
                                                                                                                                                                      t
"
.........

Oh!!  Nice t t s.

vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 91816
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Reply from shayne
Feb.06.2009
06:27AM EDT 
Email shayne
vertical line Quote: "Quote: "Quote: "Quote: "

Quote: "The true man of no rank is neither good nor not good, has no expectation of others whatsoever, much less foisting demands on them.
..........................

"What is awakening?" asked a monk.
"Get out!" said Te-shan, "Don't defecate here."
"And Buddha?" persisted the monk.
"An old Indian beggar," said Te-shan, "'Awakening' and 'nirvana' are posts to tether donkeys. The scriptural canon was written by devils; it's just paper for wiping infected skin boils. None of these things will save you."

"
.........

There is no hope of salvation.  And Gautama was an old Indian beggar, who died eating rotten meat which had been given to him. 

The world is bull of buddhas.  I know a few.  None of us will be saved.  There is nothing from which we need to be saved.  There is nothing that we need.

But knowing that is the source of our content, which we try to share to  no avail.

"
.........

"
.........

actually you said direct transmission of the dharma is possible. this transmission is " saving" it is awakening.

so you JUST contradicted yourself don.

think about it.

when you can and when you do just admit it.

itll bring you one step closer to your own awakening.

DONT believe everything is possible.

it isnt.

now having an ephaniney or " turning about of mind " is.

no shame in admitting your wrong.

afterall zen is a learning experience.

"
.........,

"
.........,

"learning" ?

"
.........

"
.........

The one of us who is right here is Lehish.  There is nothing to learn, because It is changing all the time.  You just have to move with the changes.

You and I, Shane, are simply approaching the same thing from different perspectives.  Neither of us is right, neither of us is wrong.  And it doesn't matter anyway.  I do not believe that you have had a Satori experience, but you do have a good intellectual grasp of Zen Buddhism.  You also have concrete, black & white 2d thinking which is symptomatic of your Bi Polar condition, which is to be expected.

Everyone lives in their own world.  Eventually we all need to have our own little Copernican Revolution and realize that everything does not revolve around us.

There is no concrete reality that applies to everyone.  We are all elements of the one consciousness interfacing with other elements of the same thing.  We share some experiences in common, but we are all still very different.  It is interesting to share experiences, but it is only our own experiences that should matter to us.

I can say what I have experienced.  You can say what you have experienced.  There is no need for either of us to accept the others experience as their reality, because we have our own reality to deal with. 

That is the only one that matters, our own reality.  And as we interface with other peoples realities we should do it in a way that is most beneficial to everyone.

As for being saved, from what?  For what?  Why?  Is not a desire to be saved a desire for permanence? 

Do you really want to be human forever?  It is a physical condition that applies here and now, on this planet, at this time, but what about a billion years from now?  What about even longer than that, after the Sun has swallowed the Earth and become a Dwarf Star.  Do you still want to be human then?  How is that supposed to work?

Or do you not want to be doing something that works with the current circumstances of that time rather that hanging on to what you have now, which you do not even like anyway?

I believe, based on my own experiences, for the purposes of my own reality, which does not need to apply to anyone elses reality, that the Universal Consciousness is alive and well and does not need to be saved.  I am just an element of that consciousness, like something that it typed on the screen, and I do not need to be saved either. 

"
.........

"
.........

hahahaha.

you avoided the subject.

their aint no universal consciousness.

that is mere speculation and thinking and daydreaming.

and guatama had a turning about of mind.

hence he was saved.

call it " non " saving. in other words.......he stopped attempting to save himself and hence was saved in essence.

but what else could be this " direct transmission " other then saving?

and that which seeks permanance is permanant.

the unchanging.

the undying.

the mind.

the attention.

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Reply from IZIZIZ
Feb.06.2009
07:07AM EDT 
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Hello Shayne,

I want you to look all around you. You will see impermanence everywhere.

Yet. The very place that you are doing your looking in, reality, is permanent.

Reality is permanent. Non reality does not exist. So reality is permanent.

Please understand what I mean when I sat REALITY. Maybe call it IS if you like.

Therefore reality is permanent yet all that exists is impermanent. Therefore IS becomes IS NOT, yet it always becomes IS NOT in the realm of IS.

THIS IS THE PARADOX THAT I TALK ABOUT.

PARADOX IS IS.

If anything is said that does not equate to paradox then it is untrue.

Shayne. You and me are paradox. We are the impermanent permanent.

We are REALITY. Touch your hand against the wall and you will know.

REALITY IS THE GREAT PARADOX.

vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 91824
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Reply from shayne
Feb.06.2009
08:13AM EDT 
Email shayne
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consistant change.

vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 91829
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Reply from shayne
Feb.06.2009
08:17AM EDT 
Email shayne
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even the very nature of the mind is under constant change.

but the attention is where ALL this comes to a boiling point.

what we believe.

vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 91830
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Reply from shayne
Feb.06.2009
08:36AM EDT 
Email shayne
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i just drank a energy drink.

my energy is mingeling with the conscious energy of the cosmos.

vooooooooommmmmmmmmmmmmm.

ah im enlightened now.

ta dah.

hehe

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Reply from Woodsman
Feb.06.2009
09:00AM EDT 
Email Woodsman
vertical line ya sound like a girl
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 91833
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Reply from Woodsman
Feb.06.2009
10:56AM EDT 
Email Woodsman
vertical line shaynee
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 91835
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Reply from CrazyHorse
Feb.06.2009
11:57AM EDT 
vertical line I don't  know.

I am  content  to  be  amazed  at existence.

I want  to break  that  down  to  amazement moment by moment.  So far, no  luck.

As to  impermanence.  It  is  perhaps why  I  am  amazed  at  existence.
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 91837
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Reply from immortal 1
Feb.07.2009
05:05AM EDT 
vertical line Quote: "Quote: "Quote: "Quote: "Quote: "

Quote: "The true man of no rank is neither good nor not good, has no expectation of others whatsoever, much less foisting demands on them.
..........................

"What is awakening?" asked a monk.
"Get out!" said Te-shan, "Don't defecate here."
"And Buddha?" persisted the monk.
"An old Indian beggar," said Te-shan, "'Awakening' and 'nirvana' are posts to tether donkeys. The scriptural canon was written by devils; it's just paper for wiping infected skin boils. None of these things will save you."

"
.........

There is no hope of salvation.  And Gautama was an old Indian beggar, who died eating rotten meat which had been given to him. 

The world is bull of buddhas.  I know a few.  None of us will be saved.  There is nothing from which we need to be saved.  There is nothing that we need.

But knowing that is the source of our content, which we try to share to  no avail.

"
.........

"
.........

actually you said direct transmission of the dharma is possible. this transmission is " saving" it is awakening.

so you JUST contradicted yourself don.

think about it.

when you can and when you do just admit it.

itll bring you one step closer to your own awakening.

DONT believe everything is possible.

it isnt.

now having an ephaniney or " turning about of mind " is.

no shame in admitting your wrong.

afterall zen is a learning experience.

"
.........,

"
.........,

"learning" ?

"
.........

"
.........

The one of us who is right here is Lehish.  There is nothing to learn, because It is changing all the time.  You just have to move with the changes.

You and I, Shane, are simply approaching the same thing from different perspectives.  Neither of us is right, neither of us is wrong.  And it doesn't matter anyway.  I do not believe that you have had a Satori experience, but you do have a good intellectual grasp of Zen Buddhism.  You also have concrete, black & white 2d thinking which is symptomatic of your Bi Polar condition, which is to be expected.

Everyone lives in their own world.  Eventually we all need to have our own little Copernican Revolution and realize that everything does not revolve around us.

There is no concrete reality that applies to everyone.  We are all elements of the one consciousness interfacing with other elements of the same thing.  We share some experiences in common, but we are all still very different.  It is interesting to share experiences, but it is only our own experiences that should matter to us.

I can say what I have experienced.  You can say what you have experienced.  There is no need for either of us to accept the others experience as their reality, because we have our own reality to deal with. 

That is the only one that matters, our own reality.  And as we interface with other peoples realities we should do it in a way that is most beneficial to everyone.

As for being saved, from what?  For what?  Why?  Is not a desire to be saved a desire for permanence? 

Do you really want to be human forever?  It is a physical condition that applies here and now, on this planet, at this time, but what about a billion years from now?  What about even longer than that, after the Sun has swallowed the Earth and become a Dwarf Star.  Do you still want to be human then?  How is that supposed to work?

Or do you not want to be doing something that works with the current circumstances of that time rather that hanging on to what you have now, which you do not even like anyway?

I believe, based on my own experiences, for the purposes of my own reality, which does not need to apply to anyone elses reality, that the Universal Consciousness is alive and well and does not need to be saved.  I am just an element of that consciousness, like something that it typed on the screen, and I do not need to be saved either. 

"
.........

"
.........

hahahaha.

you avoided the subject.

their aint no universal consciousness.

that is mere speculation and thinking and daydreaming.

and guatama had a turning about of mind.

hence he was saved.

call it " non " saving. in other words.......he stopped attempting to save himself and hence was saved in essence.

but what else could be this " direct transmission " other then saving?

and that which seeks permanance is permanant.

the unchanging.

the undying.

the mind.

the attention.

"
.........

"
.........

In terms of the Universal Consciousness, Buddha, God, whatever you want to call it, I am just a passing thought.  I am not important.  I do not matter.  Nothing is or does.

I am fine with that.  Buddha is the Immortal One.  I am just a tiny insignificant part of that, a grain of sand on an endless beach.  But I can still enjoy the Sun and the surf.

The Direct Transmission, from Buddha, through a Teacher, however done, yields that kind of understanding.  It is not a gain, or learning more, or knowing more.  It is a total loss of individual self, ego.  Not that individual self or ego are no longer present, it just becomes understood that these things are not important.

I cannot explain it.  I can try, I have tried over and over again, but to put it into words for the intellect is like swinging the hammer over and over without ever ringing the bell.

But then I read of it too and did not undertand it either before experiencing that Direct Transmission that you disdain and deny the existence of.  The only people that I have met who do understand are those who have also received that Direct Transmission of Buddha, through a Satori experience, and they can't explain it either.

So its just something to think about, among so many things, until you have the Direct Transmission experience and then there will be nothing more to think about.

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Reply from immortal 1
Feb.07.2009
05:26AM EDT 
vertical line Quote: "

all are unique.

each a world unto themselves.

each a universe.

today at work.

told a fella i was gonna throw him in a box and ship him out.

hawaii went through my head.

i asked him where too?

he said hawaii.

hahahahhahahahha.

at the tender age of 13 i discovered my own mind.

"
.........

"
.........

That is probably not all you discovered at 13.

I remember suggesting here once that you do no use capital letters because that would require two hands, and the other one is busy.

vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 91852
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Reply from shayne
Feb.07.2009
10:53AM EDT 
Email shayne
vertical line Quote: "Quote: "Quote: "Quote: "Quote: "Quote: "

Quote: "The true man of no rank is neither good nor not good, has no expectation of others whatsoever, much less foisting demands on them.
..........................

"What is awakening?" asked a monk.
"Get out!" said Te-shan, "Don't defecate here."
"And Buddha?" persisted the monk.
"An old Indian beggar," said Te-shan, "'Awakening' and 'nirvana' are posts to tether donkeys. The scriptural canon was written by devils; it's just paper for wiping infected skin boils. None of these things will save you."

"
.........

There is no hope of salvation.  And Gautama was an old Indian beggar, who died eating rotten meat which had been given to him. 

The world is bull of buddhas.  I know a few.  None of us will be saved.  There is nothing from which we need to be saved.  There is nothing that we need.

But knowing that is the source of our content, which we try to share to  no avail.

"
.........

"
.........

actually you said direct transmission of the dharma is possible. this transmission is " saving" it is awakening.

so you JUST contradicted yourself don.

think about it.

when you can and when you do just admit it.

itll bring you one step closer to your own awakening.

DONT believe everything is possible.

it isnt.

now having an ephaniney or " turning about of mind " is.

no shame in admitting your wrong.

afterall zen is a learning experience.

"
.........,

"
.........,

"learning" ?

"
.........

"
.........

The one of us who is right here is Lehish.  There is nothing to learn, because It is changing all the time.  You just have to move with the changes.

You and I, Shane, are simply approaching the same thing from different perspectives.  Neither of us is right, neither of us is wrong.  And it doesn't matter anyway.  I do not believe that you have had a Satori experience, but you do have a good intellectual grasp of Zen Buddhism.  You also have concrete, black & white 2d thinking which is symptomatic of your Bi Polar condition, which is to be expected.

Everyone lives in their own world.  Eventually we all need to have our own little Copernican Revolution and realize that everything does not revolve around us.

There is no concrete reality that applies to everyone.  We are all elements of the one consciousness interfacing with other elements of the same thing.  We share some experiences in common, but we are all still very different.  It is interesting to share experiences, but it is only our own experiences that should matter to us.

I can say what I have experienced.  You can say what you have experienced.  There is no need for either of us to accept the others experience as their reality, because we have our own reality to deal with. 

That is the only one that matters, our own reality.  And as we interface with other peoples realities we should do it in a way that is most beneficial to everyone.

As for being saved, from what?  For what?  Why?  Is not a desire to be saved a desire for permanence? 

Do you really want to be human forever?  It is a physical condition that applies here and now, on this planet, at this time, but what about a billion years from now?  What about even longer than that, after the Sun has swallowed the Earth and become a Dwarf Star.  Do you still want to be human then?  How is that supposed to work?

Or do you not want to be doing something that works with the current circumstances of that time rather that hanging on to what you have now, which you do not even like anyway?

I believe, based on my own experiences, for the purposes of my own reality, which does not need to apply to anyone elses reality, that the Universal Consciousness is alive and well and does not need to be saved.  I am just an element of that consciousness, like something that it typed on the screen, and I do not need to be saved either. 

"
.........

"
.........

hahahaha.

you avoided the subject.

their aint no universal consciousness.

that is mere speculation and thinking and daydreaming.

and guatama had a turning about of mind.

hence he was saved.

call it " non " saving. in other words.......he stopped attempting to save himself and hence was saved in essence.

but what else could be this " direct transmission " other then saving?

and that which seeks permanance is permanant.

the unchanging.

the undying.

the mind.

the attention.

"
.........

"
.........

In terms of the Universal Consciousness, Buddha, God, whatever you want to call it, I am just a passing thought.  I am not important.  I do not matter.  Nothing is or does.

I am fine with that.  Buddha is the Immortal One.  I am just a tiny insignificant part of that, a grain of sand on an endless beach.  But I can still enjoy the Sun and the surf.

The Direct Transmission, from Buddha, through a Teacher, however done, yields that kind of understanding.  It is not a gain, or learning more, or knowing more.  It is a total loss of individual self, ego.  Not that individual self or ego are no longer present, it just becomes understood that these things are not important.

I cannot explain it.  I can try, I have tried over and over again, but to put it into words for the intellect is like swinging the hammer over and over without ever ringing the bell.

But then I read of it too and did not undertand it either before experiencing that Direct Transmission that you disdain and deny the existence of.  The only people that I have met who do understand are those who have also received that Direct Transmission of Buddha, through a Satori experience, and they can't explain it either.

So its just something to think about, among so many things, until you have the Direct Transmission experience and then there will be nothing more to think about.

"
.........

"
.........

omg that is speculation of some magical direct intervention from guatama.

direct transmission of what?

and WHO the heck wants loss of the individual self?

i dont.

i want self.

its PART of this existance.

and a huge part.

and i dont feel im no speck in the universe.

let the universe fade away.

the soul remains.

it is the grounds of the reality we have made for ourselves.

this reality we call words and feelings and thoughts and buildings and presidents.

hahahahhaha.

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Reply from Woodsman
Feb.07.2009
12:04PM EDT 
Email Woodsman
vertical line Arrg, manly yes, but I like it too. It sounds true anyway, as does all sound.
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 91856
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Reply from lehish
Feb.08.2009
02:57AM EDT 
Email lehish
vertical line Quote: "Quote: "Quote: "Quote: "Quote: "Quote: "Quote: "

Quote: "The true man of no rank is neither good nor not good, has no expectation of others whatsoever, much less foisting demands on them.
..........................

"What is awakening?" asked a monk.
"Get out!" said Te-shan, "Don't defecate here."
"And Buddha?" persisted the monk.
"An old Indian beggar," said Te-shan, "'Awakening' and 'nirvana' are posts to tether donkeys. The scriptural canon was written by devils; it's just paper for wiping infected skin boils. None of these things will save you."

"
.........

There is no hope of salvation.  And Gautama was an old Indian beggar, who died eating rotten meat which had been given to him. 

The world is bull of buddhas.  I know a few.  None of us will be saved.  There is nothing from which we need to be saved.  There is nothing that we need.

But knowing that is the source of our content, which we try to share to  no avail.

"
.........

"
.........

actually you said direct transmission of the dharma is possible. this transmission is " saving" it is awakening.

so you JUST contradicted yourself don.

think about it.

when you can and when you do just admit it.

itll bring you one step closer to your own awakening.

DONT believe everything is possible.

it isnt.

now having an ephaniney or " turning about of mind " is.

no shame in admitting your wrong.

afterall zen is a learning experience.

"
.........,

"
.........,

"learning" ?

"
.........

"
.........

The one of us who is right here is Lehish.  There is nothing to learn, because It is changing all the time.  You just have to move with the changes.

You and I, Shane, are simply approaching the same thing from different perspectives.  Neither of us is right, neither of us is wrong.  And it doesn't matter anyway.  I do not believe that you have had a Satori experience, but you do have a good intellectual grasp of Zen Buddhism.  You also have concrete, black & white 2d thinking which is symptomatic of your Bi Polar condition, which is to be expected.

Everyone lives in their own world.  Eventually we all need to have our own little Copernican Revolution and realize that everything does not revolve around us.

There is no concrete reality that applies to everyone.  We are all elements of the one consciousness interfacing with other elements of the same thing.  We share some experiences in common, but we are all still very different.  It is interesting to share experiences, but it is only our own experiences that should matter to us.

I can say what I have experienced.  You can say what you have experienced.  There is no need for either of us to accept the others experience as their reality, because we have our own reality to deal with. 

That is the only one that matters, our own reality.  And as we interface with other peoples realities we should do it in a way that is most beneficial to everyone.

As for being saved, from what?  For what?  Why?  Is not a desire to be saved a desire for permanence? 

Do you really want to be human forever?  It is a physical condition that applies here and now, on this planet, at this time, but what about a billion years from now?  What about even longer than that, after the Sun has swallowed the Earth and become a Dwarf Star.  Do you still want to be human then?  How is that supposed to work?

Or do you not want to be doing something that works with the current circumstances of that time rather that hanging on to what you have now, which you do not even like anyway?

I believe, based on my own experiences, for the purposes of my own reality, which does not need to apply to anyone elses reality, that the Universal Consciousness is alive and well and does not need to be saved.  I am just an element of that consciousness, like something that it typed on the screen, and I do not need to be saved either. 

"
.........

"
.........

hahahaha.

you avoided the subject.

their aint no universal consciousness.

that is mere speculation and thinking and daydreaming.

and guatama had a turning about of mind.

hence he was saved.

call it " non " saving. in other words.......he stopped attempting to save himself and hence was saved in essence.

but what else could be this " direct transmission " other then saving?

and that which seeks permanance is permanant.

the unchanging.

the undying.

the mind.

the attention.

"
.........

"
.........

In terms of the Universal Consciousness, Buddha, God, whatever you want to call it, I am just a passing thought.  I am not important.  I do not matter.  Nothing is or does.

I am fine with that.  Buddha is the Immortal One.  I am just a tiny insignificant part of that, a grain of sand on an endless beach.  But I can still enjoy the Sun and the surf.

The Direct Transmission, from Buddha, through a Teacher, however done, yields that kind of understanding.  It is not a gain, or learning more, or knowing more.  It is a total loss of individual self, ego.  Not that individual self or ego are no longer present, it just becomes understood that these things are not important.

I cannot explain it.  I can try, I have tried over and over again, but to put it into words for the intellect is like swinging the hammer over and over without ever ringing the bell.

But then I read of it too and did not undertand it either before experiencing that Direct Transmission that you disdain and deny the existence of.  The only people that I have met who do understand are those who have also received that Direct Transmission of Buddha, through a Satori experience, and they can't explain it either.

So its just something to think about, among so many things, until you have the Direct Transmission experience and then there will be nothing more to think about.

"
.........

"
.........

omg that is speculation of some magical direct intervention from guatama.

direct transmission of what?

and WHO the heck wants loss of the individual self?

i dont.

i want self.

its PART of this existance.

and a huge part.

and i dont feel im no speck in the universe.

let the universe fade away.

the soul remains.

it is the grounds of the reality we have made for ourselves.

this reality we call words and feelings and thoughts and buildings and presidents.

hahahahhaha.

"
.........

"
.........

The one who died, died totally; nothing of him has remained.

Believe me, nothing of him has remained, not even a shadow. It died totally, utterly. It is not that I am just a modified RUP, transformed, modified form, transformed form of the old. No, there has been no continuity. That day of March twenty-first, the person who had lived for many many lives, for millennia, simply died. Another being, absolutely new, not connected at all with the old, started to exist.

Religion just gives you a total death. Maybe that's why the whole day previous to that happening I was feeling some urgency like death, as if I am going to die - and I really died. I have known many other deaths but they were nothing compared to it, they were partial deaths.

Sometimes the body died, sometimes a part of the mind died, sometimes a part of the ego died, but as far as the person was concerned, it remained. Renovated many times, decorated many times, changed a little bit here and there, but it remained, the continuity remained.

That night the death was total. It was a date with death and god simultaneously.

Osho

vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 91871
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Reply from shayne
Feb.08.2009
03:04AM EDT 
Email shayne
vertical line Quote: "Quote: "Quote: "Quote: "Quote: "Quote: "Quote: "Quote: "

Quote: "The true man of no rank is neither good nor not good, has no expectation of others whatsoever, much less foisting demands on them.
..........................

"What is awakening?" asked a monk.
"Get out!" said Te-shan, "Don't defecate here."
"And Buddha?" persisted the monk.
"An old Indian beggar," said Te-shan, "'Awakening' and 'nirvana' are posts to tether donkeys. The scriptural canon was written by devils; it's just paper for wiping infected skin boils. None of these things will save you."

"
.........

There is no hope of salvation.  And Gautama was an old Indian beggar, who died eating rotten meat which had been given to him. 

The world is bull of buddhas.  I know a few.  None of us will be saved.  There is nothing from which we need to be saved.  There is nothing that we need.

But knowing that is the source of our content, which we try to share to  no avail.

"
.........

"
.........

actually you said direct transmission of the dharma is possible. this transmission is " saving" it is awakening.

so you JUST contradicted yourself don.

think about it.

when you can and when you do just admit it.

itll bring you one step closer to your own awakening.

DONT believe everything is possible.

it isnt.

now having an ephaniney or " turning about of mind " is.

no shame in admitting your wrong.

afterall zen is a learning experience.

"
.........,

"
.........,

"learning" ?

"
.........

"
.........

The one of us who is right here is Lehish.  There is nothing to learn, because It is changing all the time.  You just have to move with the changes.

You and I, Shane, are simply approaching the same thing from different perspectives.  Neither of us is right, neither of us is wrong.  And it doesn't matter anyway.  I do not believe that you have had a Satori experience, but you do have a good intellectual grasp of Zen Buddhism.  You also have concrete, black & white 2d thinking which is symptomatic of your Bi Polar condition, which is to be expected.

Everyone lives in their own world.  Eventually we all need to have our own little Copernican Revolution and realize that everything does not revolve around us.

There is no concrete reality that applies to everyone.  We are all elements of the one consciousness interfacing with other elements of the same thing.  We share some experiences in common, but we are all still very different.  It is interesting to share experiences, but it is only our own experiences that should matter to us.

I can say what I have experienced.  You can say what you have experienced.  There is no need for either of us to accept the others experience as their reality, because we have our own reality to deal with. 

That is the only one that matters, our own reality.  And as we interface with other peoples realities we should do it in a way that is most beneficial to everyone.

As for being saved, from what?  For what?  Why?  Is not a desire to be saved a desire for permanence? 

Do you really want to be human forever?  It is a physical condition that applies here and now, on this planet, at this time, but what about a billion years from now?  What about even longer than that, after the Sun has swallowed the Earth and become a Dwarf Star.  Do you still want to be human then?  How is that supposed to work?

Or do you not want to be doing something that works with the current circumstances of that time rather that hanging on to what you have now, which you do not even like anyway?

I believe, based on my own experiences, for the purposes of my own reality, which does not need to apply to anyone elses reality, that the Universal Consciousness is alive and well and does not need to be saved.  I am just an element of that consciousness, like something that it typed on the screen, and I do not need to be saved either. 

"
.........

"
.........

hahahaha.

you avoided the subject.

their aint no universal consciousness.

that is mere speculation and thinking and daydreaming.

and guatama had a turning about of mind.

hence he was saved.

call it " non " saving. in other words.......he stopped attempting to save himself and hence was saved in essence.

but what else could be this " direct transmission " other then saving?

and that which seeks permanance is permanant.

the unchanging.

the undying.

the mind.

the attention.

"
.........

"
.........

In terms of the Universal Consciousness, Buddha, God, whatever you want to call it, I am just a passing thought.  I am not important.  I do not matter.  Nothing is or does.

I am fine with that.  Buddha is the Immortal One.  I am just a tiny insignificant part of that, a grain of sand on an endless beach.  But I can still enjoy the Sun and the surf.

The Direct Transmission, from Buddha, through a Teacher, however done, yields that kind of understanding.  It is not a gain, or learning more, or knowing more.  It is a total loss of individual self, ego.  Not that individual self or ego are no longer present, it just becomes understood that these things are not important.

I cannot explain it.  I can try, I have tried over and over again, but to put it into words for the intellect is like swinging the hammer over and over without ever ringing the bell.

But then I read of it too and did not undertand it either before experiencing that Direct Transmission that you disdain and deny the existence of.  The only people that I have met who do understand are those who have also received that Direct Transmission of Buddha, through a Satori experience, and they can't explain it either.

So its just something to think about, among so many things, until you have the Direct Transmission experience and then there will be nothing more to think about.

"
.........

"
.........

omg that is speculation of some magical direct intervention from guatama.

direct transmission of what?

and WHO the heck wants loss of the individual self?

i dont.

i want self.

its PART of this existance.

and a huge part.

and i dont feel im no speck in the universe.

let the universe fade away.

the soul remains.

it is the grounds of the reality we have made for ourselves.

this reality we call words and feelings and thoughts and buildings and presidents.

hahahahhaha.

"
.........

"
.........

The one who died, died totally; nothing of him has remained.

Believe me, nothing of him has remained, not even a shadow. It died totally, utterly. It is not that I am just a modified RUP, transformed, modified form, transformed form of the old. No, there has been no continuity. That day of March twenty-first, the person who had lived for many many lives, for millennia, simply died. Another being, absolutely new, not connected at all with the old, started to exist.

Religion just gives you a total death. Maybe that's why the whole day previous to that happening I was feeling some urgency like death, as if I am going to die - and I really died. I have known many other deaths but they were nothing compared to it, they were partial deaths.

Sometimes the body died, sometimes a part of the mind died, sometimes a part of the ego died, but as far as the person was concerned, it remained. Renovated many times, decorated many times, changed a little bit here and there, but it remained, the continuity remained.

That night the death was total. It was a date with death and god simultaneously.

Osho

"
.........

"
.........

osho was nuts.

period.

haha.

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Reply from Woodsman
Feb.08.2009
09:24AM EDT 
Email Woodsman
vertical line Don't say nuts. My craving!
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Reply from lehish
Feb.08.2009
09:55AM EDT 
Email lehish
vertical line Quote: "Quote: "Quote: "Quote: "Quote: "Quote: "Quote: "Quote: "Quote: "

Quote: "The true man of no rank is neither good nor not good, has no expectation of others whatsoever, much less foisting demands on them.
..........................

"What is awakening?" asked a monk.
"Get out!" said Te-shan, "Don't defecate here."
"And Buddha?" persisted the monk.
"An old Indian beggar," said Te-shan, "'Awakening' and 'nirvana' are posts to tether donkeys. The scriptural canon was written by devils; it's just paper for wiping infected skin boils. None of these things will save you."

"
.........

There is no hope of salvation.  And Gautama was an old Indian beggar, who died eating rotten meat which had been given to him. 

The world is bull of buddhas.  I know a few.  None of us will be saved.  There is nothing from which we need to be saved.  There is nothing that we need.

But knowing that is the source of our content, which we try to share to  no avail.

"
.........

"
.........

actually you said direct transmission of the dharma is possible. this transmission is " saving" it is awakening.

so you JUST contradicted yourself don.

think about it.

when you can and when you do just admit it.

itll bring you one step closer to your own awakening.

DONT believe everything is possible.

it isnt.

now having an ephaniney or " turning about of mind " is.

no shame in admitting your wrong.

afterall zen is a learning experience.

"
.........,

"
.........,

"learning" ?

"
.........

"
.........

The one of us who is right here is Lehish.  There is nothing to learn, because It is changing all the time.  You just have to move with the changes.

You and I, Shane, are simply approaching the same thing from different perspectives.  Neither of us is right, neither of us is wrong.  And it doesn't matter anyway.  I do not believe that you have had a Satori experience, but you do have a good intellectual grasp of Zen Buddhism.  You also have concrete, black & white 2d thinking which is symptomatic of your Bi Polar condition, which is to be expected.

Everyone lives in their own world.  Eventually we all need to have our own little Copernican Revolution and realize that everything does not revolve around us.

There is no concrete reality that applies to everyone.  We are all elements of the one consciousness interfacing with other elements of the same thing.  We share some experiences in common, but we are all still very different.  It is interesting to share experiences, but it is only our own experiences that should matter to us.

I can say what I have experienced.  You can say what you have experienced.  There is no need for either of us to accept the others experience as their reality, because we have our own reality to deal with. 

That is the only one that matters, our own reality.  And as we interface with other peoples realities we should do it in a way that is most beneficial to everyone.

As for being saved, from what?  For what?  Why?  Is not a desire to be saved a desire for permanence? 

Do you really want to be human forever?  It is a physical condition that applies here and now, on this planet, at this time, but what about a billion years from now?  What about even longer than that, after the Sun has swallowed the Earth and become a Dwarf Star.  Do you still want to be human then?  How is that supposed to work?

Or do you not want to be doing something that works with the current circumstances of that time rather that hanging on to what you have now, which you do not even like anyway?

I believe, based on my own experiences, for the purposes of my own reality, which does not need to apply to anyone elses reality, that the Universal Consciousness is alive and well and does not need to be saved.  I am just an element of that consciousness, like something that it typed on the screen, and I do not need to be saved either. 

"
.........

"
.........

hahahaha.

you avoided the subject.

their aint no universal consciousness.

that is mere speculation and thinking and daydreaming.

and guatama had a turning about of mind.

hence he was saved.

call it " non " saving. in other words.......he stopped attempting to save himself and hence was saved in essence.

but what else could be this " direct transmission " other then saving?

and that which seeks permanance is permanant.

the unchanging.

the undying.

the mind.

the attention.

"
.........

"
.........

In terms of the Universal Consciousness, Buddha, God, whatever you want to call it, I am just a passing thought.  I am not important.  I do not matter.  Nothing is or does.

I am fine with that.  Buddha is the Immortal One.  I am just a tiny insignificant part of that, a grain of sand on an endless beach.  But I can still enjoy the Sun and the surf.

The Direct Transmission, from Buddha, through a Teacher, however done, yields that kind of understanding.  It is not a gain, or learning more, or knowing more.  It is a total loss of individual self, ego.  Not that individual self or ego are no longer present, it just becomes understood that these things are not important.

I cannot explain it.  I can try, I have tried over and over again, but to put it into words for the intellect is like swinging the hammer over and over without ever ringing the bell.

But then I read of it too and did not undertand it either before experiencing that Direct Transmission that you disdain and deny the existence of.  The only people that I have met who do understand are those who have also received that Direct Transmission of Buddha, through a Satori experience, and they can't explain it either.

So its just something to think about, among so many things, until you have the Direct Transmission experience and then there will be nothing more to think about.

"
.........

"
.........

omg that is speculation of some magical direct intervention from guatama.

direct transmission of what?

and WHO the heck wants loss of the individual self?

i dont.

i want self.

its PART of this existance.

and a huge part.

and i dont feel im no speck in the universe.

let the universe fade away.

the soul remains.

it is the grounds of the reality we have made for ourselves.

this reality we call words and feelings and thoughts and buildings and presidents.

hahahahhaha.

"
.........

"
.........

The one who died, died totally; nothing of him has remained.

Believe me, nothing of him has remained, not even a shadow. It died totally, utterly. It is not that I am just a modified RUP, transformed, modified form, transformed form of the old. No, there has been no continuity. That day of March twenty-first, the person who had lived for many many lives, for millennia, simply died. Another being, absolutely new, not connected at all with the old, started to exist.

Religion just gives you a total death. Maybe that's why the whole day previous to that happening I was feeling some urgency like death, as if I am going to die - and I really died. I have known many other deaths but they were nothing compared to it, they were partial deaths.

Sometimes the body died, sometimes a part of the mind died, sometimes a part of the ego died, but as far as the person was concerned, it remained. Renovated many times, decorated many times, changed a little bit here and there, but it remained, the continuity remained.

That night the death was total. It was a date with death and god simultaneously.

Osho

"
.........

"
.........

osho was nuts.

period.

haha.

"
.........

"
.........

could seem as though nuts, if interpret the words used instead listening

vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 91961
horizontal line
 
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Reply from immortal 1
Feb.11.2009
05:53AM EDT 
vertical line Quote: "Quote: "Quote: "Quote: "Quote: "Quote: "Quote: "Quote: "Quote: "Quote: "

Quote: "The true man of no rank is neither good nor not good, has no expectation of others whatsoever, much less foisting demands on them.
..........................

"What is awakening?" asked a monk.
"Get out!" said Te-shan, "Don't defecate here."
"And Buddha?" persisted the monk.
"An old Indian beggar," said Te-shan, "'Awakening' and 'nirvana' are posts to tether donkeys. The scriptural canon was written by devils; it's just paper for wiping infected skin boils. None of these things will save you."

"
.........

There is no hope of salvation.  And Gautama was an old Indian beggar, who died eating rotten meat which had been given to him. 

The world is bull of buddhas.  I know a few.  None of us will be saved.  There is nothing from which we need to be saved.  There is nothing that we need.

But knowing that is the source of our content, which we try to share to  no avail.

"
.........

"
.........

actually you said direct transmission of the dharma is possible. this transmission is " saving" it is awakening.

so you JUST contradicted yourself don.

think about it.

when you can and when you do just admit it.

itll bring you one step closer to your own awakening.

DONT believe everything is possible.

it isnt.

now having an ephaniney or " turning about of mind " is.

no shame in admitting your wrong.

afterall zen is a learning experience.

"
.........,

"
.........,

"learning" ?

"
.........

"
.........

The one of us who is right here is Lehish.  There is nothing to learn, because It is changing all the time.  You just have to move with the changes.

You and I, Shane, are simply approaching the same thing from different perspectives.  Neither of us is right, neither of us is wrong.  And it doesn't matter anyway.  I do not believe that you have had a Satori experience, but you do have a good intellectual grasp of Zen Buddhism.  You also have concrete, black & white 2d thinking which is symptomatic of your Bi Polar condition, which is to be expected.

Everyone lives in their own world.  Eventually we all need to have our own little Copernican Revolution and realize that everything does not revolve around us.

There is no concrete reality that applies to everyone.  We are all elements of the one consciousness interfacing with other elements of the same thing.  We share some experiences in common, but we are all still very different.  It is interesting to share experiences, but it is only our own experiences that should matter to us.

I can say what I have experienced.  You can say what you have experienced.  There is no need for either of us to accept the others experience as their reality, because we have our own reality to deal with. 

That is the only one that matters, our own reality.  And as we interface with other peoples realities we should do it in a way that is most beneficial to everyone.

As for being saved, from what?  For what?  Why?  Is not a desire to be saved a desire for permanence? 

Do you really want to be human forever?  It is a physical condition that applies here and now, on this planet, at this time, but what about a billion years from now?  What about even longer than that, after the Sun has swallowed the Earth and become a Dwarf Star.  Do you still want to be human then?  How is that supposed to work?

Or do you not want to be doing something that works with the current circumstances of that time rather that hanging on to what you have now, which you do not even like anyway?

I believe, based on my own experiences, for the purposes of my own reality, which does not need to apply to anyone elses reality, that the Universal Consciousness is alive and well and does not need to be saved.  I am just an element of that consciousness, like something that it typed on the screen, and I do not need to be saved either. 

"
.........

"
.........

hahahaha.

you avoided the subject.

their aint no universal consciousness.

that is mere speculation and thinking and daydreaming.

and guatama had a turning about of mind.

hence he was saved.

call it " non " saving. in other words.......he stopped attempting to save himself and hence was saved in essence.

but what else could be this " direct transmission " other then saving?

and that which seeks permanance is permanant.

the unchanging.

the undying.

the mind.

the attention.

"
.........

"
.........

In terms of the Universal Consciousness, Buddha, God, whatever you want to call it, I am just a passing thought.  I am not important.  I do not matter.  Nothing is or does.

I am fine with that.  Buddha is the Immortal One.  I am just a tiny insignificant part of that, a grain of sand on an endless beach.  But I can still enjoy the Sun and the surf.

The Direct Transmission, from Buddha, through a Teacher, however done, yields that kind of understanding.  It is not a gain, or learning more, or knowing more.  It is a total loss of individual self, ego.  Not that individual self or ego are no longer present, it just becomes understood that these things are not important.

I cannot explain it.  I can try, I have tried over and over again, but to put it into words for the intellect is like swinging the hammer over and over without ever ringing the bell.

But then I read of it too and did not undertand it either before experiencing that Direct Transmission that you disdain and deny the existence of.  The only people that I have met who do understand are those who have also received that Direct Transmission of Buddha, through a Satori experience, and they can't explain it either.

So its just something to think about, among so many things, until you have the Direct Transmission experience and then there will be nothing more to think about.

"
.........

"
.........

omg that is speculation of some magical direct intervention from guatama.

direct transmission of what?

and WHO the heck wants loss of the individual self?

i dont.

i want self.

its PART of this existance.

and a huge part.

and i dont feel im no speck in the universe.

let the universe fade away.

the soul remains.

it is the grounds of the reality we have made for ourselves.

this reality we call words and feelings and thoughts and buildings and presidents.

hahahahhaha.

"
.........

"
.........

The one who died, died totally; nothing of him has remained.

Believe me, nothing of him has remained, not even a shadow. It died totally, utterly. It is not that I am just a modified RUP, transformed, modified form, transformed form of the old. No, there has been no continuity. That day of March twenty-first, the person who had lived for many many lives, for millennia, simply died. Another being, absolutely new, not connected at all with the old, started to exist.

Religion just gives you a total death. Maybe that's why the whole day previous to that happening I was feeling some urgency like death, as if I am going to die - and I really died. I have known many other deaths but they were nothing compared to it, they were partial deaths.

Sometimes the body died, sometimes a part of the mind died, sometimes a part of the ego died, but as far as the person was concerned, it remained. Renovated many times, decorated many times, changed a little bit here and there, but it remained, the continuity remained.

That night the death was total. It was a date with death and god simultaneously.

Osho

"
.........

"
.........

osho was nuts.

period.

haha.

"
.........

"
.........

could seem as though nuts, if interpret the words used instead listening

"
.........

"
.........

I grock what Osho says. 

Shayne, I know from talking with you that you have some psychic or clairvoyant attributes.  That is good, in its own way.  Its part of your Buddha Nature.

With understanding there is nothing left of yourself, except as a part of Buddha, because there is nothing left but Buddha, however abstract of indifinable that may be.

If you want to be Shayne, Jedi Knight and Master of The Force, you will not find it in Zen.  And do not try to bring it here, it does not fit.  Try to understand that The Force, to the extent that any such thing exists at all, is just something Buddha made up.

vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 92097
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Reply from shayne
Feb.11.2009
09:59AM EDT 
Email shayne
vertical line Quote: "Quote: "Quote: "Quote: "Quote: "Quote: "Quote: "Quote: "Quote: "Quote: "Quote: "

Quote: "The true man of no rank is neither good nor not good, has no expectation of others whatsoever, much less foisting demands on them.
..........................

"What is awakening?" asked a monk.
"Get out!" said Te-shan, "Don't defecate here."
"And Buddha?" persisted the monk.
"An old Indian beggar," said Te-shan, "'Awakening' and 'nirvana' are posts to tether donkeys. The scriptural canon was written by devils; it's just paper for wiping infected skin boils. None of these things will save you."

"
.........

There is no hope of salvation.  And Gautama was an old Indian beggar, who died eating rotten meat which had been given to him. 

The world is bull of buddhas.  I know a few.  None of us will be saved.  There is nothing from which we need to be saved.  There is nothing that we need.

But knowing that is the source of our content, which we try to share to  no avail.

"
.........

"
.........

actually you said direct transmission of the dharma is possible. this transmission is " saving" it is awakening.

so you JUST contradicted yourself don.

think about it.

when you can and when you do just admit it.

itll bring you one step closer to your own awakening.

DONT believe everything is possible.

it isnt.

now having an ephaniney or " turning about of mind " is.

no shame in admitting your wrong.

afterall zen is a learning experience.

"
.........,

"
.........,

"learning" ?

"
.........

"
.........

The one of us who is right here is Lehish.  There is nothing to learn, because It is changing all the time.  You just have to move with the changes.

You and I, Shane, are simply approaching the same thing from different perspectives.  Neither of us is right, neither of us is wrong.  And it doesn't matter anyway.  I do not believe that you have had a Satori experience, but you do have a good intellectual grasp of Zen Buddhism.  You also have concrete, black & white 2d thinking which is symptomatic of your Bi Polar condition, which is to be expected.

Everyone lives in their own world.  Eventually we all need to have our own little Copernican Revolution and realize that everything does not revolve around us.

There is no concrete reality that applies to everyone.  We are all elements of the one consciousness interfacing with other elements of the same thing.  We share some experiences in common, but we are all still very different.  It is interesting to share experiences, but it is only our own experiences that should matter to us.

I can say what I have experienced.  You can say what you have experienced.  There is no need for either of us to accept the others experience as their reality, because we have our own reality to deal with. 

That is the only one that matters, our own reality.  And as we interface with other peoples realities we should do it in a way that is most beneficial to everyone.

As for being saved, from what?  For what?  Why?  Is not a desire to be saved a desire for permanence? 

Do you really want to be human forever?  It is a physical condition that applies here and now, on this planet, at this time, but what about a billion years from now?  What about even longer than that, after the Sun has swallowed the Earth and become a Dwarf Star.  Do you still want to be human then?  How is that supposed to work?

Or do you not want to be doing something that works with the current circumstances of that time rather that hanging on to what you have now, which you do not even like anyway?

I believe, based on my own experiences, for the purposes of my own reality, which does not need to apply to anyone elses reality, that the Universal Consciousness is alive and well and does not need to be saved.  I am just an element of that consciousness, like something that it typed on the screen, and I do not need to be saved either. 

"
.........

"
.........

hahahaha.

you avoided the subject.

their aint no universal consciousness.

that is mere speculation and thinking and daydreaming.

and guatama had a turning about of mind.

hence he was saved.

call it " non " saving. in other words.......he stopped attempting to save himself and hence was saved in essence.

but what else could be this " direct transmission " other then saving?

and that which seeks permanance is permanant.

the unchanging.

the undying.

the mind.

the attention.

"
.........

"
.........

In terms of the Universal Consciousness, Buddha, God, whatever you want to call it, I am just a passing thought.  I am not important.  I do not matter.  Nothing is or does.

I am fine with that.  Buddha is the Immortal One.  I am just a tiny insignificant part of that, a grain of sand on an endless beach.  But I can still enjoy the Sun and the surf.

The Direct Transmission, from Buddha, through a Teacher, however done, yields that kind of understanding.  It is not a gain, or learning more, or knowing more.  It is a total loss of individual self, ego.  Not that individual self or ego are no longer present, it just becomes understood that these things are not important.

I cannot explain it.  I can try, I have tried over and over again, but to put it into words for the intellect is like swinging the hammer over and over without ever ringing the bell.

But then I read of it too and did not undertand it either before experiencing that Direct Transmission that you disdain and deny the existence of.  The only people that I have met who do understand are those who have also received that Direct Transmission of Buddha, through a Satori experience, and they can't explain it either.

So its just something to think about, among so many things, until you have the Direct Transmission experience and then there will be nothing more to think about.

"
.........

"
.........

omg that is speculation of some magical direct intervention from guatama.

direct transmission of what?

and WHO the heck wants loss of the individual self?

i dont.

i want self.

its PART of this existance.

and a huge part.

and i dont feel im no speck in the universe.

let the universe fade away.

the soul remains.

it is the grounds of the reality we have made for ourselves.

this reality we call words and feelings and thoughts and buildings and presidents.

hahahahhaha.

"
.........

"
.........

The one who died, died totally; nothing of him has remained.

Believe me, nothing of him has remained, not even a shadow. It died totally, utterly. It is not that I am just a modified RUP, transformed, modified form, transformed form of the old. No, there has been no continuity. That day of March twenty-first, the person who had lived for many many lives, for millennia, simply died. Another being, absolutely new, not connected at all with the old, started to exist.

Religion just gives you a total death. Maybe that's why the whole day previous to that happening I was feeling some urgency like death, as if I am going to die - and I really died. I have known many other deaths but they were nothing compared to it, they were partial deaths.

Sometimes the body died, sometimes a part of the mind died, sometimes a part of the ego died, but as far as the person was concerned, it remained. Renovated many times, decorated many times, changed a little bit here and there, but it remained, the continuity remained.

That night the death was total. It was a date with death and god simultaneously.

Osho

"
.........

"
.........

osho was nuts.

period.

haha.

"
.........

"
.........

could seem as though nuts, if interpret the words used instead listening

"
.........

"
.........

I grock what Osho says. 

Shayne, I know from talking with you that you have some psychic or clairvoyant attributes.  That is good, in its own way.  Its part of your Buddha Nature.

With understanding there is nothing left of yourself, except as a part of Buddha, because there is nothing left but Buddha, however abstract of indifinable that may be.

If you want to be Shayne, Jedi Knight and Master of The Force, you will not find it in Zen.  And do not try to bring it here, it does not fit.  Try to understand that The Force, to the extent that any such thing exists at all, is just something Buddha made up.

"
.........

"
.........

haha.

jedi master shayne....I LIKE IT!

didnt say i wanted to be zen.

now did i.

zen is was and will JUST remain a catalyst.

not only am i clairvoyant i can leave my body when im really mad.

i decided im gonna change the world once i hit forty.

hahahah.

im making my OWN destiny.

vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 92108
horizontal line
 
horizontal line
Reply from immortal 1
Feb.12.2009
03:55AM EDT 
vertical line Quote: "Quote: "Quote: "Quote: "Quote: "Quote: "Quote: "Quote: "Quote: "Quote: "Quote: "Quote: "

Quote: "The true man of no rank is neither good nor not good, has no expectation of others whatsoever, much less foisting demands on them.
..........................

"What is awakening?" asked a monk.
"Get out!" said Te-shan, "Don't defecate here."
"And Buddha?" persisted the monk.
"An old Indian beggar," said Te-shan, "'Awakening' and 'nirvana' are posts to tether donkeys. The scriptural canon was written by devils; it's just paper for wiping infected skin boils. None of these things will save you."

"
.........

There is no hope of salvation.  And Gautama was an old Indian beggar, who died eating rotten meat which had been given to him. 

The world is bull of buddhas.  I know a few.  None of us will be saved.  There is nothing from which we need to be saved.  There is nothing that we need.

But knowing that is the source of our content, which we try to share to  no avail.

"
.........

"
.........

actually you said direct transmission of the dharma is possible. this transmission is " saving" it is awakening.

so you JUST contradicted yourself don.

think about it.

when you can and when you do just admit it.

itll bring you one step closer to your own awakening.

DONT believe everything is possible.

it isnt.

now having an ephaniney or " turning about of mind " is.

no shame in admitting your wrong.

afterall zen is a learning experience.

"
.........,

"
.........,

"learning" ?

"
.........

"
.........

The one of us who is right here is Lehish.  There is nothing to learn, because It is changing all the time.  You just have to move with the changes.

You and I, Shane, are simply approaching the same thing from different perspectives.  Neither of us is right, neither of us is wrong.  And it doesn't matter anyway.  I do not believe that you have had a Satori experience, but you do have a good intellectual grasp of Zen Buddhism.  You also have concrete, black & white 2d thinking which is symptomatic of your Bi Polar condition, which is to be expected.

Everyone lives in their own world.  Eventually we all need to have our own little Copernican Revolution and realize that everything does not revolve around us.

There is no concrete reality that applies to everyone.  We are all elements of the one consciousness interfacing with other elements of the same thing.  We share some experiences in common, but we are all still very different.  It is interesting to share experiences, but it is only our own experiences that should matter to us.

I can say what I have experienced.  You can say what you have experienced.  There is no need for either of us to accept the others experience as their reality, because we have our own reality to deal with. 

That is the only one that matters, our own reality.  And as we interface with other peoples realities we should do it in a way that is most beneficial to everyone.

As for being saved, from what?  For what?  Why?  Is not a desire to be saved a desire for permanence? 

Do you really want to be human forever?  It is a physical condition that applies here and now, on this planet, at this time, but what about a billion years from now?  What about even longer than that, after the Sun has swallowed the Earth and become a Dwarf Star.  Do you still want to be human then?  How is that supposed to work?

Or do you not want to be doing something that works with the current circumstances of that time rather that hanging on to what you have now, which you do not even like anyway?

I believe, based on my own experiences, for the purposes of my own reality, which does not need to apply to anyone elses reality, that the Universal Consciousness is alive and well and does not need to be saved.  I am just an element of that consciousness, like something that it typed on the screen, and I do not need to be saved either. 

"
.........

"
.........

hahahaha.

you avoided the subject.

their aint no universal consciousness.

that is mere speculation and thinking and daydreaming.

and guatama had a turning about of mind.

hence he was saved.

call it " non " saving. in other words.......he stopped attempting to save himself and hence was saved in essence.

but what else could be this " direct transmission " other then saving?

and that which seeks permanance is permanant.

the unchanging.

the undying.

the mind.

the attention.

"
.........

"
.........

In terms of the Universal Consciousness, Buddha, God, whatever you want to call it, I am just a passing thought.  I am not important.  I do not matter.  Nothing is or does.

I am fine with that.  Buddha is the Immortal One.  I am just a tiny insignificant part of that, a grain of sand on an endless beach.  But I can still enjoy the Sun and the surf.

The Direct Transmission, from Buddha, through a Teacher, however done, yields that kind of understanding.  It is not a gain, or learning more, or knowing more.  It is a total loss of individual self, ego.  Not that individual self or ego are no longer present, it just becomes understood that these things are not important.

I cannot explain it.  I can try, I have tried over and over again, but to put it into words for the intellect is like swinging the hammer over and over without ever ringing the bell.

But then I read of it too and did not undertand it either before experiencing that Direct Transmission that you disdain and deny the existence of.  The only people that I have met who do understand are those who have also received that Direct Transmission of Buddha, through a Satori experience, and they can't explain it either.

So its just something to think about, among so many things, until you have the Direct Transmission experience and then there will be nothing more to think about.

"
.........

"
.........

omg that is speculation of some magical direct intervention from guatama.

direct transmission of what?

and WHO the heck wants loss of the individual self?

i dont.

i want self.

its PART of this existance.

and a huge part.

and i dont feel im no speck in the universe.

let the universe fade away.

the soul remains.

it is the grounds of the reality we have made for ourselves.

this reality we call words and feelings and thoughts and buildings and presidents.

hahahahhaha.

"
.........

"
.........

The one who died, died totally; nothing of him has remained.

Believe me, nothing of him has remained, not even a shadow. It died totally, utterly. It is not that I am just a modified RUP, transformed, modified form, transformed form of the old. No, there has been no continuity. That day of March twenty-first, the person who had lived for many many lives, for millennia, simply died. Another being, absolutely new, not connected at all with the old, started to exist.

Religion just gives you a total death. Maybe that's why the whole day previous to that happening I was feeling some urgency like death, as if I am going to die - and I really died. I have known many other deaths but they were nothing compared to it, they were partial deaths.

Sometimes the body died, sometimes a part of the mind died, sometimes a part of the ego died, but as far as the person was concerned, it remained. Renovated many times, decorated many times, changed a little bit here and there, but it remained, the continuity remained.

That night the death was total. It was a date with death and god simultaneously.

Osho

"
.........

"
.........

osho was nuts.

period.

haha.

"
.........

"
.........

could seem as though nuts, if interpret the words used instead listening

"
.........

"
.........

I grock what Osho says. 

Shayne, I know from talking with you that you have some psychic or clairvoyant attributes.  That is good, in its own way.  Its part of your Buddha Nature.

With understanding there is nothing left of yourself, except as a part of Buddha, because there is nothing left but Buddha, however abstract of indifinable that may be.

If you want to be Shayne, Jedi Knight and Master of The Force, you will not find it in Zen.  And do not try to bring it here, it does not fit.  Try to understand that The Force, to the extent that any such thing exists at all, is just something Buddha made up.

"
.........

"
.........

haha.

jedi master shayne....I LIKE IT!

didnt say i wanted to be zen.

now did i.

zen is was and will JUST remain a catalyst.

not only am i clairvoyant i can leave my body when im really mad.

i decided im gonna change the world once i hit forty.

hahahah.

im making my OWN destiny.

"
.........

"
.........

Thanks for the warning.

When do you hit forty?

It would be good to know when the Anti-Christ is coming.

vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 92203
horizontal line
 
horizontal line
Reply from shayne
Feb.12.2009
09:39AM EDT 
Email shayne
vertical line Quote: "Quote: "Quote: "Quote: "Quote: "Quote: "Quote: "Quote: "Quote: "Quote: "Quote: "Quote: "Quote: "

Quote: "The true man of no rank is neither good nor not good, has no expectation of others whatsoever, much less foisting demands on them.
..........................

"What is awakening?" asked a monk.
"Get out!" said Te-shan, "Don't defecate here."
"And Buddha?" persisted the monk.
"An old Indian beggar," said Te-shan, "'Awakening' and 'nirvana' are posts to tether donkeys. The scriptural canon was written by devils; it's just paper for wiping infected skin boils. None of these things will save you."

"
.........

There is no hope of salvation.  And Gautama was an old Indian beggar, who died eating rotten meat which had been given to him. 

The world is bull of buddhas.  I know a few.  None of us will be saved.  There is nothing from which we need to be saved.  There is nothing that we need.

But knowing that is the source of our content, which we try to share to  no avail.

"
.........

"
.........

actually you said direct transmission of the dharma is possible. this transmission is " saving" it is awakening.

so you JUST contradicted yourself don.

think about it.

when you can and when you do just admit it.

itll bring you one step closer to your own awakening.

DONT believe everything is possible.

it isnt.

now having an ephaniney or " turning about of mind " is.

no shame in admitting your wrong.

afterall zen is a learning experience.

"
.........,

"
.........,

"learning" ?

"
.........

"
.........

The one of us who is right here is Lehish.  There is nothing to learn, because It is changing all the time.  You just have to move with the changes.

You and I, Shane, are simply approaching the same thing from different perspectives.  Neither of us is right, neither of us is wrong.  And it doesn't matter anyway.  I do not believe that you have had a Satori experience, but you do have a good intellectual grasp of Zen Buddhism.  You also have concrete, black & white 2d thinking which is symptomatic of your Bi Polar condition, which is to be expected.

Everyone lives in their own world.  Eventually we all need to have our own little Copernican Revolution and realize that everything does not revolve around us.

There is no concrete reality that applies to everyone.  We are all elements of the one consciousness interfacing with other elements of the same thing.  We share some experiences in common, but we are all still very different.  It is interesting to share experiences, but it is only our own experiences that should matter to us.

I can say what I have experienced.  You can say what you have experienced.  There is no need for either of us to accept the others experience as their reality, because we have our own reality to deal with. 

That is the only one that matters, our own reality.  And as we interface with other peoples realities we should do it in a way that is most beneficial to everyone.

As for being saved, from what?  For what?  Why?  Is not a desire to be saved a desire for permanence? 

Do you really want to be human forever?  It is a physical condition that applies here and now, on this planet, at this time, but what about a billion years from now?  What about even longer than that, after the Sun has swallowed the Earth and become a Dwarf Star.  Do you still want to be human then?  How is that supposed to work?

Or do you not want to be doing something that works with the current circumstances of that time rather that hanging on to what you have now, which you do not even like anyway?

I believe, based on my own experiences, for the purposes of my own reality, which does not need to apply to anyone elses reality, that the Universal Consciousness is alive and well and does not need to be saved.  I am just an element of that consciousness, like something that it typed on the screen, and I do not need to be saved either. 

"
.........

"
.........

hahahaha.

you avoided the subject.

their aint no universal consciousness.

that is mere speculation and thinking and daydreaming.

and guatama had a turning about of mind.

hence he was saved.

call it " non " saving. in other words.......he stopped attempting to save himself and hence was saved in essence.

but what else could be this " direct transmission " other then saving?

and that which seeks permanance is permanant.

the unchanging.

the undying.

the mind.

the attention.

"
.........

"
.........

In terms of the Universal Consciousness, Buddha, God, whatever you want to call it, I am just a passing thought.  I am not important.  I do not matter.  Nothing is or does.

I am fine with that.  Buddha is the Immortal One.  I am just a tiny insignificant part of that, a grain of sand on an endless beach.  But I can still enjoy the Sun and the surf.

The Direct Transmission, from Buddha, through a Teacher, however done, yields that kind of understanding.  It is not a gain, or learning more, or knowing more.  It is a total loss of individual self, ego.  Not that individual self or ego are no longer present, it just becomes understood that these things are not important.

I cannot explain it.  I can try, I have tried over and over again, but to put it into words for the intellect is like swinging the hammer over and over without ever ringing the bell.

But then I read of it too and did not undertand it either before experiencing that Direct Transmission that you disdain and deny the existence of.  The only people that I have met who do understand are those who have also received that Direct Transmission of Buddha, through a Satori experience, and they can't explain it either.

So its just something to think about, among so many things, until you have the Direct Transmission experience and then there will be nothing more to think about.

"
.........

"
.........

omg that is speculation of some magical direct intervention from guatama.

direct transmission of what?

and WHO the heck wants loss of the individual self?

i dont.

i want self.

its PART of this existance.

and a huge part.

and i dont feel im no speck in the universe.

let the universe fade away.

the soul remains.

it is the grounds of the reality we have made for ourselves.

this reality we call words and feelings and thoughts and buildings and presidents.

hahahahhaha.

"
.........

"
.........

The one who died, died totally; nothing of him has remained.

Believe me, nothing of him has remained, not even a shadow. It died totally, utterly. It is not that I am just a modified RUP, transformed, modified form, transformed form of the old. No, there has been no continuity. That day of March twenty-first, the person who had lived for many many lives, for millennia, simply died. Another being, absolutely new, not connected at all with the old, started to exist.

Religion just gives you a total death. Maybe that's why the whole day previous to that happening I was feeling some urgency like death, as if I am going to die - and I really died. I have known many other deaths but they were nothing compared to it, they were partial deaths.

Sometimes the body died, sometimes a part of the mind died, sometimes a part of the ego died, but as far as the person was concerned, it remained. Renovated many times, decorated many times, changed a little bit here and there, but it remained, the continuity remained.

That night the death was total. It was a date with death and god simultaneously.

Osho

"
.........

"
.........

osho was nuts.

period.

haha.

"
.........

"
.........

could seem as though nuts, if interpret the words used instead listening

"
.........

"
.........

I grock what Osho says. 

Shayne, I know from talking with you that you have some psychic or clairvoyant attributes.  That is good, in its own way.  Its part of your Buddha Nature.

With understanding there is nothing left of yourself, except as a part of Buddha, because there is nothing left but Buddha, however abstract of indifinable that may be.

If you want to be Shayne, Jedi Knight and Master of The Force, you will not find it in Zen.  And do not try to bring it here, it does not fit.  Try to understand that The Force, to the extent that any such thing exists at all, is just something Buddha made up.

"
.........

"
.........

haha.

jedi master shayne....I LIKE IT!

didnt say i wanted to be zen.

now did i.

zen is was and will JUST remain a catalyst.

not only am i clairvoyant i can leave my body when im really mad.

i decided im gonna change the world once i hit forty.

hahahah.

im making my OWN destiny.

"
.........

"
.........

Thanks for the warning.

When do you hit forty?

It would be good to know when the Anti-Christ is coming.

"
.........

"
.........

ok then.

aint you all self righteous.

haha.

vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 92216
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horizontal line
Reply from Woodsman
Feb.12.2009
02:14PM EDT 
Email Woodsman
vertical line Quote: "Quote: "Quote: "Quote: "Quote: "Quote: "Quote: "Quote: "Quote: "Quote: "Quote: "Quote: "Quote: "Quote: "

Quote: "The true man of no rank is neither good nor not good, has no expectation of others whatsoever, much less foisting demands on them.
..........................

"What is awakening?" asked a monk.
"Get out!" said Te-shan, "Don't defecate here."
"And Buddha?" persisted the monk.
"An old Indian beggar," said Te-shan, "'Awakening' and 'nirvana' are posts to tether donkeys. The scriptural canon was written by devils; it's just paper for wiping infected skin boils. None of these things will save you."

"
.........

There is no hope of salvation.  And Gautama was an old Indian beggar, who died eating rotten meat which had been given to him. 

The world is bull of buddhas.  I know a few.  None of us will be saved.  There is nothing from which we need to be saved.  There is nothing that we need.                toot!

But knowing that is the source of our content, which we try to share to  no avail.

"
.........

"
.........

actually you said direct transmission of the dharma is possible. this transmission is " saving" it is awakening.

so you JUST contradicted yourself don.

think about it.

when you can and when you do just admit it.

itll bring you one step closer to your own awakening.

DONT believe everything is possible.

it isnt.

now having an ephaniney or " turning about of mind " is.

no shame in admitting your wrong.

afterall zen is a learning experience.

"
.........,

"
.........,

"learning" ?

"
.........

"
.........

The one of us who is right here is Lehish.  There is nothing to learn, because It is changing all the time.  You just have to move with the changes.

You and I, Shane, are simply approaching the same thing from different perspectives.  Neither of us is right, neither of us is wrong.  And it doesn't matter anyway.  I do not believe that you have had a Satori experience, but you do have a good intellectual grasp of Zen Buddhism.  You also have concrete, black & white 2d thinking which is symptomatic of your Bi Polar condition, which is to be expected.

Everyone lives in their own world.  Eventually we all need to have our own little Copernican Revolution and realize that everything does not revolve around us.

There is no concrete reality that applies to everyone.  We are all elements of the one consciousness interfacing with other elements of the same thing.  We share some experiences in common, but we are all still very different.  It is interesting to share experiences, but it is only our own experiences that should matter to us.

I can say what I have experienced.  You can say what you have experienced.  There is no need for either of us to accept the others experience as their reality, because we have our own reality to deal with. 

That is the only one that matters, our own reality.  And as we interface with other peoples realities we should do it in a way that is most beneficial to everyone.

As for being saved, from what?  For what?  Why?  Is not a desire to be saved a desire for permanence? 

Do you really want to be human forever?  It is a physical condition that applies here and now, on this planet, at this time, but what about a billion years from now?  What about even longer than that, after the Sun has swallowed the Earth and become a Dwarf Star.  Do you still want to be human then?  How is that supposed to work?

Or do you not want to be doing something that works with the current circumstances of that time rather that hanging on to what you have now, which you do not even like anyway?

I believe, based on my own experiences, for the purposes of my own reality, which does not need to apply to anyone elses reality, that the Universal Consciousness is alive and well and does not need to be saved.  I am just an element of that consciousness, like something that it typed on the screen, and I do not need to be saved either. 

"
.........

"
.........

hahahaha.

you avoided the subject.

their aint no universal consciousness.

that is mere speculation and thinking and daydreaming.

and guatama had a turning about of mind.

hence he was saved.

call it " non " saving. in other words.......he stopped attempting to save himself and hence was saved in essence.

but what else could be this " direct transmission " other then saving?

and that which seeks permanance is permanant.

the unchanging.

the undying.

the mind.

the attention.

"
.........

"
.........

In terms of the Universal Consciousness, Buddha, God, whatever you want to call it, I am just a passing thought.  I am not important.  I do not matter.  Nothing is or does.

I am fine with that.  Buddha is the Immortal One.  I am just a tiny insignificant part of that, a grain of sand on an endless beach.  But I can still enjoy the Sun and the surf.

The Direct Transmission, from Buddha, through a Teacher, however done, yields that kind of understanding.  It is not a gain, or learning more, or knowing more.  It is a total loss of individual self, ego.  Not that individual self or ego are no longer present, it just becomes understood that these things are not important.

I cannot explain it.  I can try, I have tried over and over again, but to put it into words for the intellect is like swinging the hammer over and over without ever ringing the bell.

But then I read of it too and did not undertand it either before experiencing that Direct Transmission that you disdain and deny the existence of.  The only people that I have met who do understand are those who have also received that Direct Transmission of Buddha, through a Satori experience, and they can't explain it either.

So its just something to think about, among so many things, until you have the Direct Transmission experience and then there will be nothing more to think about.

"
.........

"
.........

omg that is speculation of some magical direct intervention from guatama.

direct transmission of what?

and WHO the heck wants loss of the individual self?

i dont.

i want self.

its PART of this existance.

and a huge part.

and i dont feel im no speck in the universe.

let the universe fade away.

the soul remains.

it is the grounds of the reality we have made for ourselves.

this reality we call words and feelings and thoughts and buildings and presidents.

hahahahhaha.

"
.........

"
.........

The one who died, died totally; nothing of him has remained.

Believe me, nothing of him has remained, not even a shadow. It died totally, utterly. It is not that I am just a modified RUP, transformed, modified form, transformed form of the old. No, there has been no continuity. That day of March twenty-first, the person who had lived for many many lives, for millennia, simply died. Another being, absolutely new, not connected at all with the old, started to exist.

Religion just gives you a total death. Maybe that's why the whole day previous to that happening I was feeling some urgency like death, as if I am going to die - and I really died. I have known many other deaths but they were nothing compared to it, they were partial deaths.

Sometimes the body died, sometimes a part of the mind died, sometimes a part of the ego died, but as far as the person was concerned, it remained. Renovated many times, decorated many times, changed a little bit here and there, but it remained, the continuity remained.

That night the death was total. It was a date with death and god simultaneously.

Osho

"
.........

"
.........

osho was nuts.

period.

haha.

"
.........

"
.........

could seem as though nuts, if interpret the words used instead listening

"
.........

"
.........

I grock what Osho says. 

Shayne, I know from talking with you that you have some psychic or clairvoyant attributes.  That is good, in its own way.  Its part of your Buddha Nature.

With understanding there is nothing left of yourself, except as a part of Buddha, because there is nothing left but Buddha, however abstract of indifinable that may be.

If you want to be Shayne, Jedi Knight and Master of The Force, you will not find it in Zen.  And do not try to bring it here, it does not fit.  Try to understand that The Force, to the extent that any such thing exists at all, is just something Buddha made up.

"
.........

"
.........

haha.

jedi master shayne....I LIKE IT!

didnt say i wanted to be zen.

now did i.

zen is was and will JUST remain a catalyst.

not only am i clairvoyant i can leave my body when im really mad.

i decided im gonna change the world once i hit forty.

hahahah.

im making my OWN destiny.

"
.........

"
.........

Thanks for the warning.

When do you hit forty?

It would be good to know when the Anti-Christ is coming.

"
.........

"
.........

ok then.

aint you all self righteous.

haha.

"
.........

sorry, it was me, I cut a fart back there.
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 92227
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Reply from immortal 1
Feb.13.2009
04:39AM EDT 
vertical line Quote: "Quote: "Quote: "Quote: "Quote: "Quote: "Quote: "Quote: "Quote: "Quote: "Quote: "Quote: "Quote: "Quote: "Quote: "

Quote: "The true man of no rank is neither good nor not good, has no expectation of others whatsoever, much less foisting demands on them.
..........................

"What is awakening?" asked a monk.
"Get out!" said Te-shan, "Don't defecate here."
"And Buddha?" persisted the monk.
"An old Indian beggar," said Te-shan, "'Awakening' and 'nirvana' are posts to tether donkeys. The scriptural canon was written by devils; it's just paper for wiping infected skin boils. None of these things will save you."

"
.........

There is no hope of salvation.  And Gautama was an old Indian beggar, who died eating rotten meat which had been given to him. 

The world is bull of buddhas.  I know a few.  None of us will be saved.  There is nothing from which we need to be saved.  There is nothing that we need.                toot!

But knowing that is the source of our content, which we try to share to  no avail.

"
.........

"
.........

actually you said direct transmission of the dharma is possible. this transmission is " saving" it is awakening.

so you JUST contradicted yourself don.

think about it.

when you can and when you do just admit it.

itll bring you one step closer to your own awakening.

DONT believe everything is possible.

it isnt.

now having an ephaniney or " turning about of mind " is.

no shame in admitting your wrong.

afterall zen is a learning experience.

"
.........,

"
.........,

"learning" ?

"
.........

"
.........

The one of us who is right here is Lehish.  There is nothing to learn, because It is changing all the time.  You just have to move with the changes.

You and I, Shane, are simply approaching the same thing from different perspectives.  Neither of us is right, neither of us is wrong.  And it doesn't matter anyway.  I do not believe that you have had a Satori experience, but you do have a good intellectual grasp of Zen Buddhism.  You also have concrete, black & white 2d thinking which is symptomatic of your Bi Polar condition, which is to be expected.

Everyone lives in their own world.  Eventually we all need to have our own little Copernican Revolution and realize that everything does not revolve around us.

There is no concrete reality that applies to everyone.  We are all elements of the one consciousness interfacing with other elements of the same thing.  We share some experiences in common, but we are all still very different.  It is interesting to share experiences, but it is only our own experiences that should matter to us.

I can say what I have experienced.  You can say what you have experienced.  There is no need for either of us to accept the others experience as their reality, because we have our own reality to deal with. 

That is the only one that matters, our own reality.  And as we interface with other peoples realities we should do it in a way that is most beneficial to everyone.

As for being saved, from what?  For what?  Why?  Is not a desire to be saved a desire for permanence? 

Do you really want to be human forever?  It is a physical condition that applies here and now, on this planet, at this time, but what about a billion years from now?  What about even longer than that, after the Sun has swallowed the Earth and become a Dwarf Star.  Do you still want to be human then?  How is that supposed to work?

Or do you not want to be doing something that works with the current circumstances of that time rather that hanging on to what you have now, which you do not even like anyway?

I believe, based on my own experiences, for the purposes of my own reality, which does not need to apply to anyone elses reality, that the Universal Consciousness is alive and well and does not need to be saved.  I am just an element of that consciousness, like something that it typed on the screen, and I do not need to be saved either. 

"
.........

"
.........

hahahaha.

you avoided the subject.

their aint no universal consciousness.

that is mere speculation and thinking and daydreaming.

and guatama had a turning about of mind.

hence he was saved.

call it " non " saving. in other words.......he stopped attempting to save himself and hence was saved in essence.

but what else could be this " direct transmission " other then saving?

and that which seeks permanance is permanant.

the unchanging.

the undying.

the mind.

the attention.

"
.........

"
.........

In terms of the Universal Consciousness, Buddha, God, whatever you want to call it, I am just a passing thought.  I am not important.  I do not matter.  Nothing is or does.

I am fine with that.  Buddha is the Immortal One.  I am just a tiny insignificant part of that, a grain of sand on an endless beach.  But I can still enjoy the Sun and the surf.

The Direct Transmission, from Buddha, through a Teacher, however done, yields that kind of understanding.  It is not a gain, or learning more, or knowing more.  It is a total loss of individual self, ego.  Not that individual self or ego are no longer present, it just becomes understood that these things are not important.

I cannot explain it.  I can try, I have tried over and over again, but to put it into words for the intellect is like swinging the hammer over and over without ever ringing the bell.

But then I read of it too and did not undertand it either before experiencing that Direct Transmission that you disdain and deny the existence of.  The only people that I have met who do understand are those who have also received that Direct Transmission of Buddha, through a Satori experience, and they can't explain it either.

So its just something to think about, among so many things, until you have the Direct Transmission experience and then there will be nothing more to think about.

"
.........

"
.........

omg that is speculation of some magical direct intervention from guatama.

direct transmission of what?

and WHO the heck wants loss of the individual self?

i dont.

i want self.

its PART of this existance.

and a huge part.

and i dont feel im no speck in the universe.

let the universe fade away.

the soul remains.

it is the grounds of the reality we have made for ourselves.

this reality we call words and feelings and thoughts and buildings and presidents.

hahahahhaha.

"
.........

"
.........

The one who died, died totally; nothing of him has remained.

Believe me, nothing of him has remained, not even a shadow. It died totally, utterly. It is not that I am just a modified RUP, transformed, modified form, transformed form of the old. No, there has been no continuity. That day of March twenty-first, the person who had lived for many many lives, for millennia, simply died. Another being, absolutely new, not connected at all with the old, started to exist.

Religion just gives you a total death. Maybe that's why the whole day previous to that happening I was feeling some urgency like death, as if I am going to die - and I really died. I have known many other deaths but they were nothing compared to it, they were partial deaths.

Sometimes the body died, sometimes a part of the mind died, sometimes a part of the ego died, but as far as the person was concerned, it remained. Renovated many times, decorated many times, changed a little bit here and there, but it remained, the continuity remained.

That night the death was total. It was a date with death and god simultaneously.

Osho

"
.........

"
.........

osho was nuts.

period.

haha.

"
.........

"
.........

could seem as though nuts, if interpret the words used instead listening

"
.........

"
.........

I grock what Osho says. 

Shayne, I know from talking with you that you have some psychic or clairvoyant attributes.  That is good, in its own way.  Its part of your Buddha Nature.

With understanding there is nothing left of yourself, except as a part of Buddha, because there is nothing left but Buddha, however abstract of indifinable that may be.

If you want to be Shayne, Jedi Knight and Master of The Force, you will not find it in Zen.  And do not try to bring it here, it does not fit.  Try to understand that The Force, to the extent that any such thing exists at all, is just something Buddha made up.

"
.........

"
.........

haha.

jedi master shayne....I LIKE IT!

didnt say i wanted to be zen.

now did i.

zen is was and will JUST remain a catalyst.

not only am i clairvoyant i can leave my body when im really mad.

i decided im gonna change the world once i hit forty.

hahahah.

im making my OWN destiny.

"
.........

"
.........

Thanks for the warning.

When do you hit forty?

It would be good to know when the Anti-Christ is coming.

"
.........

"
.........

ok then.

aint you all self righteous.

haha.

"
.........

sorry, it was me, I cut a fart back there.
"
.........

"
.........

sorry, it was me, I cut a fart back there.
"
.........

I love to cut SBDs, like just before you get off the elevator, or when walking down a crowded stairway, or on the escalator, and then you hear someone behind you say, Oh, God !!! 

But you cannot laugh, because that would be like admitting that you are the one who did it.  

Lifes little pleasures.  What a great place to be.

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Reply from Woodsman
Feb.13.2009
09:27AM EDT 
Email Woodsman
vertical line Quote: "Quote: "Quote: "Quote: "Quote: "Quote: "Quote: "Quote: "Quote: "Quote: "Quote: "Quote: "Quote: "Quote: "Quote: "Quote: "

Quote: "The true man of no rank is neither good nor not good, has no expectation of others whatsoever, much less foisting demands on them.
..........................

"What is awakening?" asked a monk.
"Get out!" said Te-shan, "Don't defecate here."
"And Buddha?" persisted the monk.
"An old Indian beggar," said Te-shan, "'Awakening' and 'nirvana' are posts to tether donkeys. The scriptural canon was written by devils; it's just paper for wiping infected skin boils. None of these things will save you."

"
.........

There is no hope of salvation.  And Gautama was an old Indian beggar, who died eating rotten meat which had been given to him. 

The world is bull of buddhas.  I know a few.  None of us will be saved.  There is nothing from which we need to be saved.  There is nothing that we need.                toot!

But knowing that is the source of our content, which we try to share to  no avail.

"
.........

"
.........

actually you said direct transmission of the dharma is possible. this transmission is " saving" it is awakening.

so you JUST contradicted yourself don.

think about it.

when you can and when you do just admit it.

itll bring you one step closer to your own awakening.

DONT believe everything is possible.

it isnt.

now having an ephaniney or " turning about of mind " is.

no shame in admitting your wrong.

afterall zen is a learning experience.

"
.........,

"
.........,

"learning" ?

"
.........

"
.........

The one of us who is right here is Lehish.  There is nothing to learn, because It is changing all the time.  You just have to move with the changes.

You and I, Shane, are simply approaching the same thing from different perspectives.  Neither of us is right, neither of us is wrong.  And it doesn't matter anyway.  I do not believe that you have had a Satori experience, but you do have a good intellectual grasp of Zen Buddhism.  You also have concrete, black & white 2d thinking which is symptomatic of your Bi Polar condition, which is to be expected.

Everyone lives in their own world.  Eventually we all need to have our own little Copernican Revolution and realize that everything does not revolve around us.

There is no concrete reality that applies to everyone.  We are all elements of the one consciousness interfacing with other elements of the same thing.  We share some experiences in common, but we are all still very different.  It is interesting to share experiences, but it is only our own experiences that should matter to us.

I can say what I have experienced.  You can say what you have experienced.  There is no need for either of us to accept the others experience as their reality, because we have our own reality to deal with. 

That is the only one that matters, our own reality.  And as we interface with other peoples realities we should do it in a way that is most beneficial to everyone.

As for being saved, from what?  For what?  Why?  Is not a desire to be saved a desire for permanence? 

Do you really want to be human forever?  It is a physical condition that applies here and now, on this planet, at this time, but what about a billion years from now?  What about even longer than that, after the Sun has swallowed the Earth and become a Dwarf Star.  Do you still want to be human then?  How is that supposed to work?

Or do you not want to be doing something that works with the current circumstances of that time rather that hanging on to what you have now, which you do not even like anyway?

I believe, based on my own experiences, for the purposes of my own reality, which does not need to apply to anyone elses reality, that the Universal Consciousness is alive and well and does not need to be saved.  I am just an element of that consciousness, like something that it typed on the screen, and I do not need to be saved either. 

"
.........

"
.........

hahahaha.

you avoided the subject.

their aint no universal consciousness.

that is mere speculation and thinking and daydreaming.

and guatama had a turning about of mind.

hence he was saved.

call it " non " saving. in other words.......he stopped attempting to save himself and hence was saved in essence.

but what else could be this " direct transmission " other then saving?

and that which seeks permanance is permanant.

the unchanging.

the undying.

the mind.

the attention.

"
.........

"
.........

In terms of the Universal Consciousness, Buddha, God, whatever you want to call it, I am just a passing thought.  I am not important.  I do not matter.  Nothing is or does.

I am fine with that.  Buddha is the Immortal One.  I am just a tiny insignificant part of that, a grain of sand on an endless beach.  But I can still enjoy the Sun and the surf.

The Direct Transmission, from Buddha, through a Teacher, however done, yields that kind of understanding.  It is not a gain, or learning more, or knowing more.  It is a total loss of individual self, ego.  Not that individual self or ego are no longer present, it just becomes understood that these things are not important.

I cannot explain it.  I can try, I have tried over and over again, but to put it into words for the intellect is like swinging the hammer over and over without ever ringing the bell.

But then I read of it too and did not undertand it either before experiencing that Direct Transmission that you disdain and deny the existence of.  The only people that I have met who do understand are those who have also received that Direct Transmission of Buddha, through a Satori experience, and they can't explain it either.

So its just something to think about, among so many things, until you have the Direct Transmission experience and then there will be nothing more to think about.

"
.........

"
.........

omg that is speculation of some magical direct intervention from guatama.

direct transmission of what?

and WHO the heck wants loss of the individual self?

i dont.

i want self.

its PART of this existance.

and a huge part.

and i dont feel im no speck in the universe.

let the universe fade away.

the soul remains.

it is the grounds of the reality we have made for ourselves.

this reality we call words and feelings and thoughts and buildings and presidents.

hahahahhaha.

"
.........

"
.........

The one who died, died totally; nothing of him has remained.

Believe me, nothing of him has remained, not even a shadow. It died totally, utterly. It is not that I am just a modified RUP, transformed, modified form, transformed form of the old. No, there has been no continuity. That day of March twenty-first, the person who had lived for many many lives, for millennia, simply died. Another being, absolutely new, not connected at all with the old, started to exist.

Religion just gives you a total death. Maybe that's why the whole day previous to that happening I was feeling some urgency like death, as if I am going to die - and I really died. I have known many other deaths but they were nothing compared to it, they were partial deaths.

Sometimes the body died, sometimes a part of the mind died, sometimes a part of the ego died, but as far as the person was concerned, it remained. Renovated many times, decorated many times, changed a little bit here and there, but it remained, the continuity remained.

That night the death was total. It was a date with death and god simultaneously.

Osho

"
.........

"
.........

osho was nuts.

period.

haha.

"
.........

"
.........

could seem as though nuts, if interpret the words used instead listening

"
.........

"
.........

I grock what Osho says. 

Shayne, I know from talking with you that you have some psychic or clairvoyant attributes.  That is good, in its own way.  Its part of your Buddha Nature.

With understanding there is nothing left of yourself, except as a part of Buddha, because there is nothing left but Buddha, however abstract of indifinable that may be.

If you want to be Shayne, Jedi Knight and Master of The Force, you will not find it in Zen.  And do not try to bring it here, it does not fit.  Try to understand that The Force, to the extent that any such thing exists at all, is just something Buddha made up.

"
.........

"
.........

haha.

jedi master shayne....I LIKE IT!

didnt say i wanted to be zen.

now did i.

zen is was and will JUST remain a catalyst.

not only am i clairvoyant i can leave my body when im really mad.

i decided im gonna change the world once i hit forty.

hahahah.

im making my OWN destiny.

"
.........

"
.........

Thanks for the warning.

When do you hit forty?

It would be good to know when the Anti-Christ is coming.

"
.........

"
.........

ok then.

aint you all self righteous.

haha.

"
.........

sorry, it was me, I cut a fart back there.
"
.........

"
.........

sorry, it was me, I cut a fart back there.
"
.........

I love to cut SBDs, like just before you get off the elevator, or when walking down a crowded stairway, or on the escalator, and then you hear someone behind you say, Oh, God !!! 

But you cannot laugh, because that would be like admitting that you are the one who did it.  

Lifes little pleasures.  What a great place to be.

"
.........There must be a way to recycle farts. Wait a minute! Gotta go stand next to the wood stove. I'll move my beard first. toot! Ok, that worked. Off to the fire!
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 92289
horizontal line
 
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Reply from Woodsman
Feb.13.2009
09:53AM EDT 
Email Woodsman
vertical line Quote: "Quote: "Quote: "Quote: "Quote: "Quote: "Quote: "Quote: "Quote: "Quote: "Quote: "Quote: "Quote: "Quote: "Quote: "Quote: "Quote: "

Quote: "The true man of no rank is neither good nor not good, has no expectation of others whatsoever, much less foisting demands on them.
..........................

"What is awakening?" asked a monk.
"Get out!" said Te-shan, "Don't defecate here."
"And Buddha?" persisted the monk.
"An old Indian beggar," said Te-shan, "'Awakening' and 'nirvana' are posts to tether donkeys. The scriptural canon was written by devils; it's just paper for wiping infected skin boils. None of these things will save you."

"
.........

There is no hope of salvation.  And Gautama was an old Indian beggar, who died eating rotten meat which had been given to him. 

The world is bull of buddhas.  I know a few.  None of us will be saved.  There is nothing from which we need to be saved.  There is nothing that we need.                toot!

But knowing that is the source of our content, which we try to share to  no avail.

"
.........

"
.........

actually you said direct transmission of the dharma is possible. this transmission is " saving" it is awakening.

so you JUST contradicted yourself don.

think about it.

when you can and when you do just admit it.

itll bring you one step closer to your own awakening.

DONT believe everything is possible.

it isnt.

now having an ephaniney or " turning about of mind " is.

no shame in admitting your wrong.

afterall zen is a learning experience.

"
.........,

"
.........,

"learning" ?

"
.........

"
.........

The one of us who is right here is Lehish.  There is nothing to learn, because It is changing all the time.  You just have to move with the changes.

You and I, Shane, are simply approaching the same thing from different perspectives.  Neither of us is right, neither of us is wrong.  And it doesn't matter anyway.  I do not believe that you have had a Satori experience, but you do have a good intellectual grasp of Zen Buddhism.  You also have concrete, black & white 2d thinking which is symptomatic of your Bi Polar condition, which is to be expected.

Everyone lives in their own world.  Eventually we all need to have our own little Copernican Revolution and realize that everything does not revolve around us.

There is no concrete reality that applies to everyone.  We are all elements of the one consciousness interfacing with other elements of the same thing.  We share some experiences in common, but we are all still very different.  It is interesting to share experiences, but it is only our own experiences that should matter to us.

I can say what I have experienced.  You can say what you have experienced.  There is no need for either of us to accept the others experience as their reality, because we have our own reality to deal with. 

That is the only one that matters, our own reality.  And as we interface with other peoples realities we should do it in a way that is most beneficial to everyone.

As for being saved, from what?  For what?  Why?  Is not a desire to be saved a desire for permanence? 

Do you really want to be human forever?  It is a physical condition that applies here and now, on this planet, at this time, but what about a billion years from now?  What about even longer than that, after the Sun has swallowed the Earth and become a Dwarf Star.  Do you still want to be human then?  How is that supposed to work?

Or do you not want to be doing something that works with the current circumstances of that time rather that hanging on to what you have now, which you do not even like anyway?

I believe, based on my own experiences, for the purposes of my own reality, which does not need to apply to anyone elses reality, that the Universal Consciousness is alive and well and does not need to be saved.  I am just an element of that consciousness, like something that it typed on the screen, and I do not need to be saved either. 

"
.........

"
.........

hahahaha.

you avoided the subject.

their aint no universal consciousness.

that is mere speculation and thinking and daydreaming.

and guatama had a turning about of mind.

hence he was saved.

call it " non " saving. in other words.......he stopped attempting to save himself and hence was saved in essence.

but what else could be this " direct transmission " other then saving?

and that which seeks permanance is permanant.

the unchanging.

the undying.

the mind.

the attention.

"
.........

"
.........

In terms of the Universal Consciousness, Buddha, God, whatever you want to call it, I am just a passing thought.  I am not important.  I do not matter.  Nothing is or does.

I am fine with that.  Buddha is the Immortal One.  I am just a tiny insignificant part of that, a grain of sand on an endless beach.  But I can still enjoy the Sun and the surf.

The Direct Transmission, from Buddha, through a Teacher, however done, yields that kind of understanding.  It is not a gain, or learning more, or knowing more.  It is a total loss of individual self, ego.  Not that individual self or ego are no longer present, it just becomes understood that these things are not important.

I cannot explain it.  I can try, I have tried over and over again, but to put it into words for the intellect is like swinging the hammer over and over without ever ringing the bell.

But then I read of it too and did not undertand it either before experiencing that Direct Transmission that you disdain and deny the existence of.  The only people that I have met who do understand are those who have also received that Direct Transmission of Buddha, through a Satori experience, and they can't explain it either.

So its just something to think about, among so many things, until you have the Direct Transmission experience and then there will be nothing more to think about.

"
.........

"
.........

omg that is speculation of some magical direct intervention from guatama.

direct transmission of what?

and WHO the heck wants loss of the individual self?

i dont.

i want self.

its PART of this existance.

and a huge part.

and i dont feel im no speck in the universe.

let the universe fade away.

the soul remains.

it is the grounds of the reality we have made for ourselves.

this reality we call words and feelings and thoughts and buildings and presidents.

hahahahhaha.

"
.........

"
.........

The one who died, died totally; nothing of him has remained.

Believe me, nothing of him has remained, not even a shadow. It died totally, utterly. It is not that I am just a modified RUP, transformed, modified form, transformed form of the old. No, there has been no continuity. That day of March twenty-first, the person who had lived for many many lives, for millennia, simply died. Another being, absolutely new, not connected at all with the old, started to exist.

Religion just gives you a total death. Maybe that's why the whole day previous to that happening I was feeling some urgency like death, as if I am going to die - and I really died. I have known many other deaths but they were nothing compared to it, they were partial deaths.

Sometimes the body died, sometimes a part of the mind died, sometimes a part of the ego died, but as far as the person was concerned, it remained. Renovated many times, decorated many times, changed a little bit here and there, but it remained, the continuity remained.

That night the death was total. It was a date with death and god simultaneously.

Osho

"
.........

"
.........

osho was nuts.

period.

haha.

"
.........

"
.........

could seem as though nuts, if interpret the words used instead listening

"
.........

"
.........

I grock what Osho says. 

Shayne, I know from talking with you that you have some psychic or clairvoyant attributes.  That is good, in its own way.  Its part of your Buddha Nature.

With understanding there is nothing left of yourself, except as a part of Buddha, because there is nothing left but Buddha, however abstract of indifinable that may be.

If you want to be Shayne, Jedi Knight and Master of The Force, you will not find it in Zen.  And do not try to bring it here, it does not fit.  Try to understand that The Force, to the extent that any such thing exists at all, is just something Buddha made up.

"
.........

"
.........

haha.

jedi master shayne....I LIKE IT!

didnt say i wanted to be zen.

now did i.

zen is was and will JUST remain a catalyst.

not only am i clairvoyant i can leave my body when im really mad.

i decided im gonna change the world once i hit forty.

hahahah.

im making my OWN destiny.

"
.........

"
.........

Thanks for the warning.

When do you hit forty?

It would be good to know when the Anti-Christ is coming.

"
.........

"
.........

ok then.

aint you all self righteous.

haha.

"
.........

sorry, it was me, I cut a fart back there.
"
.........

"
.........

sorry, it was me, I cut a fart back there.
"
.........

I love to cut SBDs, like just before you get off the elevator, or when walking down a crowded stairway, or on the escalator, and then you hear someone behind you say, Oh, God !!! 

But you cannot laugh, because that would be like admitting that you are the one who did it.  

Lifes little pleasures.  What a great place to be.

"
.........There must be a way to recycle farts. Wait a minute! Gotta go stand next to the wood stove. I'll move my beard first. toot! Ok, that worked. Off to the fire!
"
.........Osho said... "Mysticism is the experience that life is not logic, that life is poetry; that life is not syllogism, that life is a song. Mysticism is that declaration that life can never really be known; it is essentially unknowable."

Sweet!

toot!
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