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  A monk came to say good bye to Ch'an master Niaowo (Bird's Nest). He said:
-Thank you, Sir, for everything you've done for me. Now I got to go.
Niaowo asked:
-Where will you go?
-Any place where I can learn Buddha dharmas.
-Of... continue...

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→→→→ vertical line TOPIC: TWO APPROACHES
vertical line Posted on Jan.24.2009 @ 03:29PM EDT by Mslapik
Our body is the bodhi tree
And our mind a mirror bright.
Carefully we wipe them hour by hour
And let no dust alight.

OR

There is no bodhi tree
Nor stand of a mirror bright.
Since all is void,
Where can the dust alight?

These two verses seem to accurately illustrate the difference between the mindfulness and no-self approaches to enlightenment. (which, if I'm not mistaken, is what separates zen from many other types of Buddhism) I think DT Suzuki recognizes this difference, and expounds that the first is the "slow" approach and the second is the "realization" and "sudden" approach. Is there true separation between the two, or is any difference only superficial?




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Reply from ______
Jan.24.2009
07:26PM EDT 
vertical line Pickin' and strummin'.
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 91323
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Reply from Woodsman
Jan.24.2009
10:32PM EDT 
Email Woodsman
vertical line What use to polish the sun?
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 91331
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Reply from -----0
Jan.25.2009
05:22AM EDT 
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The first approach is not an approach, because it just substitutes new concepts for the old ones. The second approach is also no-approach, because it points out that there is nothing to approach.

vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 91337
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Reply from 9999999
Jan.25.2009
12:41PM EDT 
Email 9999999
vertical line There isn't a bodhi tree

but one can talk about it being there or not being there all one wants
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 91348
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Reply from Woodsman
Jan.25.2009
01:42PM EDT 
Email Woodsman
vertical line But there is a sun, in each of us, which burns off the dust of sloth.

... dust of sloth, ok, I'll not write that again
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 91350
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Reply from shayne
Jan.25.2009
07:30PM EDT 
Email shayne
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these contraditory sayings show me the split and division of zen.

best to wipe away all the contradictions and start afresh.

rise above them.

beyond zen.

vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 91363
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Reply from IZIZIZ
Jan.26.2009
12:28AM EDT 
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Since all is void!!!!!

So yes. The difference is what is the same.

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Reply from -----0
Jan.26.2009
11:55AM EDT 
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Quote: "these contraditory sayings show me the split and division of zen."
.........

It is the second verse that is 'officially' right. It was written by Hui-Neng, who soon after became the sixth and the last Grand Master.

vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 91375
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Reply from shayne
Jan.26.2009
05:26PM EDT 
Email shayne
vertical line Quote: "

Quote: "these contraditory sayings show me the split and division of zen."
.........

It is the second verse that is 'officially' right. It was written by Hui-Neng, who soon after became the sixth and the last Grand Master.

"
.........

"
.........

the first verse is more correct to me.

we all know mind and body exist or we wouldnt be able to write about them.

vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 91393
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Reply from Woodsman
Jan.26.2009
05:30PM EDT 
Email Woodsman
vertical line us and them. what's for dinner, besides them?
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 91396
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Reply from 9999999
Jan.27.2009
01:05AM EDT 
Email 9999999
vertical line >>and expounds that the first is the "slow" approach<<

"slow" meaning retarded--for sleeping beauties
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 91429
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Reply from IZIZIZ
Jan.27.2009
06:54AM EDT 
vertical line Quote: "

Quote: "these contraditory sayings show me the split and division of zen."
.........

It is the second verse that is &apos;officially&apos; right. It was written by Hui-Neng, who soon after became the sixth and the last Grand Master.

"
.........

"
.........

'The Awakening of Zen', and, 'The Zen Doctrine Of No Mind', are two books that I feel are a really good ingredient in the Zen experience. Both are written by D.T.Suzuki 

vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 91433
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Reply from zbishak
Jan.27.2009
07:45AM EDT 
Email zbishak
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never knew anyone that gave  themselves a body,   nor be able to show their mind....

clearly a fabrication to clean and polish, so to give themselves a feeling of real.

vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 91435
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Reply from shayne
Jan.27.2009
10:32AM EDT 
Email shayne
vertical line Quote: "

never knew anyone that gave  themselves a body,   nor be able to show their mind....

clearly a fabrication to clean and polish, so to give themselves a feeling of real.

"
.........

"
.........

two things that are very real.

its called the attention and the physical self.

what kind of strange world do you people live in?

vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 91436
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Reply from -----0
Jan.27.2009
11:29AM EDT 
vertical line Quote: "Quote: "

Quote: "these contraditory sayings show me the split and division of zen."
.........

It is the second verse that is &apos;officially&apos; right. It was written by Hui-Neng, who soon after became the sixth and the last Grand Master.

"
.........

"
.........

the first verse is more correct to me.

we all know mind and body exist or we wouldnt be able to write about them.

"
.........

"
.........

That's why you would not qualify for the sixth Grand Master. The author of the first verse failed to get the title, inspite of being the best disciple.

vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 91440
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Reply from shayne
Jan.27.2009
05:52PM EDT 
Email shayne
vertical line Quote: "Quote: "Quote: "

Quote: "these contraditory sayings show me the split and division of zen."
.........

It is the second verse that is &apos;officially&apos; right. It was written by Hui-Neng, who soon after became the sixth and the last Grand Master.

"
.........

"
.........

the first verse is more correct to me.

we all know mind and body exist or we wouldnt be able to write about them.

"
.........

"
.........

That&apos;s why you would not qualify for the sixth Grand Master. The author of the first verse failed to get the title, inspite of being the best disciple.

"
........

"
........

haha dont wanna be no sixth grand master.

just wanna stay real instead of " otherwordly"

do i seriously need to post defiantions again?

from this very web site?

vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 91445
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Reply from shayne
Jan.27.2009
05:54PM EDT 
Email shayne
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meditation - practice that concentrates and clarifies the mind .

prajna - wisdom of true mind .

ekaggata - one-pointedness (of mind) concentration.


where of where would they get such defiantions?

hahahaahaha.

children here. the lot of ya.

vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 91446
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Reply from shayne
Jan.27.2009
06:09PM EDT 
Email shayne
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Quote: "Those useless defining non answerable questions!

Let humble havanibbana answer you`re wordly and feeble mind.

So, what kind of strange world DO people live in?

Thats it! The question is the defining moment. So, we wonder. what kind of strange world? Where is my place in that world? Do I want to participate? Do I have a choice? Why am I thinking on this stuff? Blah, blah, boored Shayne?:) Quake?:)

(Ps! Just wanna say I`m alive and hope everyone is well on this forum, got thrown off after posting a picture of an eh.. uh.. rump? on this forum some months ago. So I have to keep my Identity secret, stay low, avoid going into deep and intensive arguments abouth what toughts really is and who&what stuff they are made up of and such and really, really avoid beeing, heh,http://tbn3.google.com/images?q=tbn:ng9Lv89WVZFOdM:http://i99.photobucket.com/albums/l286/Chookztwo/Cock.jpg?:)

"
.........

haha...glad your doing good.

yeah we could play quake. i cant make a server....you could though. i need to set up port forwarding.

vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 91447
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Reply from IZIZIZ
Jan.28.2009
08:26AM EDT 
vertical line Quote: "Quote: "Quote: "Quote: "

Quote: "these contraditory sayings show me the split and division of zen."
.........

It is the second verse that is &apos;officially&apos; right. It was written by Hui-Neng, who soon after became the sixth and the last Grand Master.

"
.........

"
.........

the first verse is more correct to me.

we all know mind and body exist or we wouldnt be able to write about them.

"
.........

"
.........

That&apos;s why you would not qualify for the sixth Grand Master. The author of the first verse failed to get the title, inspite of being the best disciple.

"
........

"
........

haha dont wanna be no sixth grand master.

just wanna stay real instead of " otherwordly"

do i seriously need to post defiantions again?

from this very web site?

"
.........

"
.........

Hui neng, the sixth patriarch of Zen, was an illiterate rice cleaner.

He changed the course of Zen forever.

I would not be here posting if it was not for his experience.

He was not about otherworldy, not at all.

He was all about this world. The Void/Emptyness. No-thing-ness.

Maybe have a read of 'The Awakening of Zen' and 'The Zen Doctrine Of No Mind' by D.T.Suzuki and you will be introduced to Hui-Neng.

vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 91482
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Reply from IZIZIZ
Jan.28.2009
08:31AM EDT 
vertical line Quote: "

Quote: "these contraditory sayings show me the split and division of zen."
.........

It is the second verse that is &apos;officially&apos; right. It was written by Hui-Neng, who soon after became the sixth and the last Grand Master.

"
.........

"
.........

With respect. There is no wrong, there is no right. There is 'is'.

And one who knows, knows.

And 'is' stands alone. 'Is not' is not there to stand as contrast.

What is the sound of one hand clapping?

vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 91483
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Reply from shayne
Jan.28.2009
11:27AM EDT 
Email shayne
vertical line Quote: "Quote: "Quote: "Quote: "Quote: "

Quote: "these contraditory sayings show me the split and division of zen."
.........

It is the second verse that is &apos;officially&apos; right. It was written by Hui-Neng, who soon after became the sixth and the last Grand Master.

"
.........

"
.........

the first verse is more correct to me.

we all know mind and body exist or we wouldnt be able to write about them.

"
.........

"
.........

That&apos;s why you would not qualify for the sixth Grand Master. The author of the first verse failed to get the title, inspite of being the best disciple.

"
........

"
........

haha dont wanna be no sixth grand master.

just wanna stay real instead of " otherwordly"

do i seriously need to post defiantions again?

from this very web site?

"
.........

"
.........

Hui neng, the sixth patriarch of Zen, was an illiterate rice cleaner.

He changed the course of Zen forever.

I would not be here posting if it was not for his experience.

He was not about otherworldy, not at all.

He was all about this world. The Void/Emptyness. No-thing-ness.

Maybe have a read of &apos;The Awakening of Zen&apos; and &apos;The Zen Doctrine Of No Mind&apos; by D.T.Suzuki and you will be introduced to Hui-Neng.

"
.........

"
.........

read enoufe.

void?

emptiness?

come again?

what the heack are these things?

no one thing ness?

what?

vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 91492
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Reply from ______
Jan.28.2009
01:44PM EDT 
vertical line Coffee enema?
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 91501
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Reply from Woodsman
Jan.28.2009
01:57PM EDT 
Email Woodsman
vertical line Quote: "Quote: "Quote: "Quote: "Quote: "Quote: "

Quote: "these contraditory sayings show me the split and division of zen."
.........

It is the second verse that is &apos;officially&apos; right. It was written by Hui-Neng, who soon after became the sixth and the last Grand Master.

"
.........

"
.........

the first verse is more correct to me.

we all know mind and body exist or we wouldnt be able to write about them.

"
.........

"
.........

That&apos;s why you would not qualify for the sixth Grand Master. The author of the first verse failed to get the title, inspite of being the best disciple.

"
........

"
........

haha dont wanna be no sixth grand master.

just wanna stay real instead of " otherwordly"

do i seriously need to post defiantions again?

from this very web site?

"
.........

"
.........

Hui neng, the sixth patriarch of Zen, was an illiterate rice cleaner.

He changed the course of Zen forever.

I would not be here posting if it was not for his experience.

He was not about otherworldy, not at all.

He was all about this world. The Void/Emptyness. No-thing-ness.

Maybe have a read of &apos;The Awakening of Zen&apos; and &apos;The Zen Doctrine Of No Mind&apos; by D.T.Suzuki and you will be introduced to Hui-Neng.

"
.........

"
.........

read enoufe.

void?

emptiness?

come again?

what the heack are these things?

no one thing ness?

what?

"
.........

Go back to the barn, or just sit here.
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 91502
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Reply from Woodsman
Jan.28.2009
03:05PM EDT 
Email Woodsman
vertical line He must have gone to the barn. Oh well, he had two choices.
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 91511
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