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  One day a monk paid a visit to Tinh Khong (1091-1170), a Vietnamese Zen master,
who was of the tenth generation of Vo Ngon Thong lineage, and asked:
-From old days it was talked about "direct pointing", what does that mean?
The... continue...

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→→→→ vertical line TOPIC: TWO KINDS OF HURT
vertical line Posted on Mar.03.2009 @ 08:44PM EDT by chontri
When one's body gets hurt, it feels that hurt. That is its intelligence.
When one's mind gets hurt, it suffers from that hurt. That is its ignorance.
Go to Latest Reply   Reply to this Topic   Email chontri
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Reply from Woodsman
Mar.03.2009
10:59PM EDT 
Email Woodsman
vertical line But the decision to listen to the body requires a certain readiness of the mind does it not?
And the mind only wants a portion of what the body connects with, unless, something else has left the mind's control out of it, the mind being far less vast than the body, senses taking over thoughts.
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 93464
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Reply from Rebecca
Mar.04.2009
12:17AM EDT 
Email Rebecca
vertical line Where do feelings and compassion fit in?
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 93466
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Reply from lehish
Mar.04.2009
01:33AM EDT 
Email lehish
vertical line

mr chontri

there are people which so much trauma, the current memory, or not remembered,  the suffering so great, they don't care if is ignorance, though would agree with which you posted since they intellectually understand is ignorance...the suffering is so intense they cannot calm enough to look, listen, try meditation methods...lehish talks with these people when they paining...they didn't  any warm caring people  to assist when they were little child....they need warmth and encouragement...they need to cry, maybe scream

vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 93468
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Reply from kelvintan
Mar.04.2009
02:56AM EDT 
Email kelvintan
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When one’s body gets hurt, if feels that hurt.

Observe Mindfulness, the state of awareness

One’s mind gets hurt, it suffers from that hurt

Due to ignorance and lack of self-awareness

Sufferings, rebirth and death are on this shore

Mind free of self-identification is yonder shore

Away from the bondage and attachment of all

Now living moment, life experience says it all

With Metta

vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 93479
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Reply from 9999999
Mar.04.2009
04:36AM EDT 
Email 9999999
vertical line >>When one's body gets hurt, it feels that hurt. That is its intelligence. <<
Nothing wrong with that.  No need to cure pain.


>>When one's mind gets hurt, it suffers from that hurt. That is its ignorance.<<
Nothing wrong with that.  No need to cure suffering from ignorance.


If one wanted to cure pain: One could ignore it, try not to get hurt that way again, or take medication.

If one wanted to cure suffering from ignorance:  One could be honest about one's life.  To be honest with oneself can be hard to do.  Here are some things one might want to consider:
- one's never sees its own best interest
- one is never upset for the reason one thinks
- one is upset because one sees something that isn't there
- one's meaningless thoughts show one a meaningless world
- one wont want to see that one is totally ignorant
- one is rarely if ever honest with oneself about what is really going on in one's life
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 93485
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Reply from chontri
Mar.04.2009
06:29AM EDT 
Email chontri
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Quote: "But the decision to listen to the body requires a certain readiness of the mind does it not?
And the mind only wants a portion of what the body connects with, unless, something else has left the mind&apos;s control out of it, the mind being far less vast than the body, senses taking over thoughts.
"
........

What did your intelligence do when your body got hurt?
What did your ignorance do when your mind got hurt?

vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 93496
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Reply from chontri
Mar.04.2009
06:30AM EDT 
Email chontri
vertical line

Quote: "Where do feelings and compassion fit in?"
.........

Already fit in.

vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 93497
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Reply from chontri
Mar.04.2009
06:48AM EDT 
Email chontri
vertical line Quote: "

mr chontri

there are people which so much trauma, the current memory, or not remembered,  the suffering so great, they don&apos;t care if is ignorance, though would agree with which you posted since they intellectually understand is ignorance...the suffering is so intense they cannot calm enough to look, listen, try meditation methods...lehish talks with these people when they paining...they didn&apos;t  any warm caring people  to assist when they were little child....they need warmth and encouragement...they need to cry, maybe scream

"
.........
Ms. Lehish,

"
.........
Ms. Lehish,

When your body or someone else's got hurt, whether it is little or really big, the body's intelligence would know what to do to help itself, such as weeping, crying or screaming...or even asks for help from others such as doctors and medicine.  If nothing could help at all, then it would know where it will go. If you or someone else are in a comma or in a similar condition, anyone who is available will take care of it. 

The same with the mind and its ignorance.

vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 93499
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Reply from clangor
Mar.04.2009
07:00AM EDT 
vertical line Every Day Is a Good Day

Unmon said: "I do not ask you about fifteen days ago. But what about fifteen days hence? Come, say a word about this!" Since none of the monks answered, he answered for them: "Every day is a good day."


But that music isn't mine...

vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 93500
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Reply from lehish
Mar.04.2009
07:21AM EDT 
Email lehish
vertical line Quote: "Quote: "

mr chontri

there are people which so much trauma, the current memory, or not remembered,  the suffering so great, they don&apos;t care if is ignorance, though would agree with which you posted since they intellectually understand is ignorance...the suffering is so intense they cannot calm enough to look, listen, try meditation methods...lehish talks with these people when they paining...they didn&apos;t  any warm caring people  to assist when they were little child....they need warmth and encouragement...they need to cry, maybe scream

"
.........
Ms. Lehish,

"
.........
Ms. Lehish,

When your body or someone else&apos;s got hurt, whether it is little or really big, the body&apos;s intelligence would know what to do to help itself, such as weeping, crying or screaming...or even asks for help from others such as doctors and medicine.  If nothing could help at all, then it would know where it will go. If you or someone else are in a comma or in a similar condition, anyone who is available will take care of it. 

The same with the mind and its ignorance.

"
.........

"
.........

thanks responding

maybe lehish didn't word clearly

vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 93501
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Reply from Woodsman
Mar.04.2009
08:13AM EDT 
Email Woodsman
vertical line There are no clear answers, in the mind forest.
The body though, where will it go, can it go to clear light itself?
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 93503
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Reply from Woodsman
Mar.04.2009
08:38AM EDT 
Email Woodsman
vertical line Quote: "

Quote: "But the decision to listen to the body requires a certain readiness of the mind does it not?
And the mind only wants a portion of what the body connects with, unless, something else has left the mind&apos;s control out of it, the mind being far less vast than the body, senses taking over thoughts.
"
........

What did your intelligence do when your body got hurt?
What did your ignorance do when your mind got hurt?

"
.........

stop
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 93510
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Reply from chontri
Mar.04.2009
06:43PM EDT 
Email chontri
vertical line

Quote: "There are no clear answers, in the mind forest.
The body though, where will it go, can it go to clear light itself?
"
.........

You're talking about your mind, right?

vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 93535
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Reply from chontri
Mar.04.2009
06:45PM EDT 
Email chontri
vertical line Quote: "Every Day Is a Good Day

Unmon said: "I do not ask you about fifteen days ago. But what about fifteen days hence? Come, say a word about this!" Since none of the monks answered, he answered for them: "Every day is a good day."


But that music isn&apos;t mine...

"
.........

"
.........

So, what is your music?

vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 93536
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Reply from chontri
Mar.04.2009
06:46PM EDT 
Email chontri
vertical line Quote: "Quote: "Quote: "

mr chontri

there are people which so much trauma, the current memory, or not remembered,  the suffering so great, they don&apos;t care if is ignorance, though would agree with which you posted since they intellectually understand is ignorance...the suffering is so intense they cannot calm enough to look, listen, try meditation methods...lehish talks with these people when they paining...they didn&apos;t  any warm caring people  to assist when they were little child....they need warmth and encouragement...they need to cry, maybe scream

"
.........
Ms. Lehish,

.........
Ms. Lehish,

When your body or someone else&apos;s got hurt, whether it is little or really big, the body&apos;s intelligence would know what to do to help itself, such as weeping, crying or screaming...or even asks for help from others such as doctors and medicine.  If nothing could help at all, then it would know where it will go. If you or someone else are in a comma or in a similar condition, anyone who is available will take care of it. 

The same with the mind and its ignorance.

.........

thanks responding

maybe lehish didn&apos;t word clearly

"
.........

"
.........

No problem at all, Ms. Lehish.

vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 93537
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Reply from chontri
Mar.04.2009
06:47PM EDT 
Email chontri
vertical line Quote: "Quote: "

Quote: "But the decision to listen to the body requires a certain readiness of the mind does it not?
And the mind only wants a portion of what the body connects with, unless, something else has left the mind&apos;s control out of it, the mind being far less vast than the body, senses taking over thoughts.
"
........

What did your intelligence do when your body got hurt?
What did your ignorance do when your mind got hurt?

"
.........

stop
"
.........

"
.........

stop
"
.........

Already stop.  Anything else?

vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 93538
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Reply from Woodsman
Mar.04.2009
07:37PM EDT 
Email Woodsman
vertical line Quote: "Quote: "Quote: "

Quote: "But the decision to listen to the body requires a certain readiness of the mind does it not?
And the mind only wants a portion of what the body connects with, unless, something else has left the mind&apos;s control out of it, the mind being far less vast than the body, senses taking over thoughts.
"
........

What did your intelligence do when your body got hurt?
What did your ignorance do when your mind got hurt?

"
.........

stop
"
.........

"
.........

stop
"
.........

Already stop.  Anything else?

"
.........

Thinking.
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 93544
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Reply from chontri
Mar.04.2009
07:56PM EDT 
Email chontri
vertical line Quote: "Quote: "Quote: "Quote: "

Quote: "But the decision to listen to the body requires a certain readiness of the mind does it not?
And the mind only wants a portion of what the body connects with, unless, something else has left the mind&apos;s control out of it, the mind being far less vast than the body, senses taking over thoughts.
"
........

What did your intelligence do when your body got hurt?
What did your ignorance do when your mind got hurt?

"
.........

stop
"
.........

"
.........

stop
"
.........

Already stop.  Anything else?

"
.........

Thinking.
"
.........

"
.........

Thinking.
"
.........

Make yourself more clear.

vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 93547
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Reply from Woodsman
Mar.04.2009
08:08PM EDT 
Email Woodsman
vertical line Quote: "Quote: "Quote: "Quote: "Quote: "

Quote: "But the decision to listen to the body requires a certain readiness of the mind does it not?
And the mind only wants a portion of what the body connects with, unless, something else has left the mind&apos;s control out of it, the mind being far less vast than the body, senses taking over thoughts.
"
........

What did your intelligence do when your body got hurt?
What did your ignorance do when your mind got hurt?

"
.........

stop
"
.........

"
.........

stop
"
.........

Already stop.  Anything else?

"
.........

Thinking.
"
.........

"
.........

Thinking.
"
.........

Make yourself more clear.

"
.........

Ok.
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 93548
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Reply from chontri
Mar.04.2009
08:18PM EDT 
Email chontri
vertical line Quote: "Quote: "Quote: "Quote: "Quote: "Quote: "

Quote: "But the decision to listen to the body requires a certain readiness of the mind does it not?
And the mind only wants a portion of what the body connects with, unless, something else has left the mind&apos;s control out of it, the mind being far less vast than the body, senses taking over thoughts.
"
........

What did your intelligence do when your body got hurt?
What did your ignorance do when your mind got hurt?

"
.........

stop
"
.........


stop
"
.........

Already stop.  Anything else?

"
.........

Thinking.
"
.........

Thinking.
"
.........

Make yourself more clear.

"
.........

Ok.
"
.........

"
.........

Ok.
"
.........

No.

vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 93551
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Reply from Woodsman
Mar.04.2009
08:19PM EDT 
Email Woodsman
vertical line Quote: "Quote: "Quote: "Quote: "Quote: "Quote: "Quote: "

Quote: "But the decision to listen to the body requires a certain readiness of the mind does it not?
And the mind only wants a portion of what the body connects with, unless, something else has left the mind&apos;s control out of it, the mind being far less vast than the body, senses taking over thoughts.
"
........

What did your intelligence do when your body got hurt?
What did your ignorance do when your mind got hurt?

"
.........

stop
"
.........


stop
"
.........

Already stop.  Anything else?

"
.........

Thinking.
"
.........

Thinking.
"
.........

Make yourself more clear.

"
.........

Ok.
"
.........

"
.........

Ok.
"
.........

No.

"
.........

Which is a very good place to start... you know?

vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 93552
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Reply from chontri
Mar.04.2009
08:23PM EDT 
Email chontri
vertical line Quote: "Quote: "Quote: "Quote: "Quote: "Quote: "Quote: "Quote: "

Quote: "But the decision to listen to the body requires a certain readiness of the mind does it not?
And the mind only wants a portion of what the body connects with, unless, something else has left the mind&apos;s control out of it, the mind being far less vast than the body, senses taking over thoughts.
"
........

What did your intelligence do when your body got hurt?
What did your ignorance do when your mind got hurt?

"
.........


stop
"
.........


stop
"
.........

Already stop.  Anything else?

"
.........

Thinking.
"
.........

Make yourself more clear.

"
.........

Ok.
"
.........

No.

"
.........

Which is a very good place to start... you know?
"
.........

"
.........

Which is a very good place to start... you know?
"
.........

to start what?

vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 93554
horizontal line
 
horizontal line
Reply from Woodsman
Mar.04.2009
08:53PM EDT 
Email Woodsman
vertical line Quote: "Quote: "Quote: "Quote: "Quote: "Quote: "Quote: "Quote: "Quote: "

Quote: "But the decision to listen to the body requires a certain readiness of the mind does it not?
And the mind only wants a portion of what the body connects with, unless, something else has left the mind&apos;s control out of it, the mind being far less vast than the body, senses taking over thoughts.
"
........

What did your intelligence do when your body got hurt?
What did your ignorance do when your mind got hurt?

"
.........


stop
"
.........


stop
"
.........

Already stop.  Anything else?

"
.........

Thinking.
"
.........

Make yourself more clear.

"
.........

Ok.
"
.........

No.

"
.........

Which is a very good place to start... you know?
"
.........

"
.........

Which is a very good place to start... you know?
"
.........

to start what?

"
.........

Observing, labeling, releasing.
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 93556
horizontal line
 
horizontal line
Reply from chontri
Mar.04.2009
09:11PM EDT 
Email chontri
vertical line Quote: "Quote: "Quote: "Quote: "Quote: "Quote: "Quote: "Quote: "Quote: "Quote: "

Quote: "But the decision to listen to the body requires a certain readiness of the mind does it not?
And the mind only wants a portion of what the body connects with, unless, something else has left the mind&apos;s control out of it, the mind being far less vast than the body, senses taking over thoughts.
"
........

What did your intelligence do when your body got hurt?
What did your ignorance do when your mind got hurt?

"
.........


stop
"
.........


stop
"
.........

Already stop.  Anything else?

"
.........

Thinking.
"
.........

Make yourself more clear.

"
.........

Ok.
"
.........

No.

"
.........

Which is a very good place to start... you know?
"
.........


Which is a very good place to start... you know?
"
.........

to start what?

"
.........

Observing, labeling, releasing.
"
.........

"
.........

Observing, labeling, releasing.
"
.........

You already start at where you are.

vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 93562
horizontal line
 
horizontal line
Reply from Woodsman
Mar.04.2009
09:15PM EDT 
Email Woodsman
vertical line Quote: "Quote: "Quote: "Quote: "Quote: "Quote: "Quote: "Quote: "Quote: "Quote: "Quote: "

Quote: "But the decision to listen to the body requires a certain readiness of the mind does it not?
And the mind only wants a portion of what the body connects with, unless, something else has left the mind&apos;s control out of it, the mind being far less vast than the body, senses taking over thoughts.
"
........

What did your intelligence do when your body got hurt?
What did your ignorance do when your mind got hurt?

"
.........


stop
"
.........


stop
"
.........

Already stop.  Anything else?

"
.........

Thinking.
"
.........

Make yourself more clear.

"
.........

Ok.
"
.........

No.

"
.........

Which is a very good place to start... you know?
"
.........


Which is a very good place to start... you know?
"
.........

to start what?

"
.........

Observing, labeling, releasing.
"
.........

"
.........

Observing, labeling, releasing.
"
.........

You already start at where you are.

"
.........

Let me blow my nose, here.
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 93564
horizontal line
 
horizontal line
Reply from chontri
Mar.04.2009
09:17PM EDT 
Email chontri
vertical line

Quote: "But the decision to listen to the body requires a certain readiness of the mind does it not?
And the mind only wants a portion of what the body connects with, unless, something else has left the mind&apos;s control out of it, the mind being far less vast than the body, senses taking over thoughts.
"
........

What did your intelligence do when your body got hurt?
What did your ignorance do when your mind got hurt?

"
.........


stop
"
.........


stop
"
.........

Already stop.  Anything else?

"
.........

Thinking.
"
.........

Make yourself more clear.

"
.........

Ok.
"
.........

No.

"
.........

Which is a very good place to start... you know?
"
.........


Which is a very good place to start... you know?
"
.........

to start what?

"
.........

Observing, labeling, releasing.
"
.........


Observing, labeling, releasing.
"
.........

You already start at where you are.

"
.........

Let me blow my nose, here.
"
.........

"
.........

Let me blow my nose, here.
"
.........

You already do.

vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 93565
horizontal line
 
horizontal line
Reply from Woodsman
Mar.04.2009
09:19PM EDT 
Email Woodsman
vertical line Quote: "

Quote: "But the decision to listen to the body requires a certain readiness of the mind does it not?
And the mind only wants a portion of what the body connects with, unless, something else has left the mind&apos;s control out of it, the mind being far less vast than the body, senses taking over thoughts.
"
........

What did your intelligence do when your body got hurt?
What did your ignorance do when your mind got hurt?

"
.........


stop
"
.........


stop
"
.........

Already stop.  Anything else?

"
.........

Thinking.
"
.........

Make yourself more clear.

"
.........

Ok.
"
.........

No.

"
.........

Which is a very good place to start... you know?
"
.........


Which is a very good place to start... you know?
"
.........

to start what?

"
.........

Observing, labeling, releasing.
"
.........


Observing, labeling, releasing.
"
.........

You already start at where you are.

"
.........

Let me blow my nose, here.
"
.........

"
.........

Let me blow my nose, here.
"
.........

You already do.

"
.........

If you let me.
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 93567
horizontal line
 
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Reply from chontri
Mar.04.2009
09:41PM EDT 
Email chontri
vertical line You already did.
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 93582
horizontal line
 
horizontal line
Reply from lehish
Mar.04.2009
10:24PM EDT 
Email lehish
vertical line Quote: "Quote: "Quote: "Quote: "

mr chontri

there are people which so much trauma, the current memory, or not remembered,  the suffering so great, they don&apos;t care if is ignorance, though would agree with which you posted since they intellectually understand is ignorance...the suffering is so intense they cannot calm enough to look, listen, try meditation methods...lehish talks with these people when they paining...they didn&apos;t  any warm caring people  to assist when they were little child....they need warmth and encouragement...they need to cry, maybe scream

"
.........
Ms. Lehish,

.........
Ms. Lehish,

When your body or someone else&apos;s got hurt, whether it is little or really big, the body&apos;s intelligence would know what to do to help itself, such as weeping, crying or screaming...or even asks for help from others such as doctors and medicine.  If nothing could help at all, then it would know where it will go. If you or someone else are in a comma or in a similar condition, anyone who is available will take care of it. 

The same with the mind and its ignorance.

.........

thanks responding

maybe lehish didn&apos;t word clearly

"
.........

"
.........

No problem at all, Ms. Lehish.

"
.........

"
.........

ok

gassho

vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 93583
horizontal line
 
horizontal line
Reply from chontri
Mar.05.2009
06:10AM EDT 
Email chontri
vertical line gassho.
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 93597
horizontal line
 
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