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  Posted on Sep.06.2009 @ 09:29AM EDT by chontri
In the teachings it says that:
"All compounded things are like dreams,
illusions, bubbles, and shadows;
they are like dew and like lightning,
and should be seen in... continue...

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→→→→ vertical line TOPIC: LEARNING HOW TO DETACH FROM RELATIONSHIPS
vertical line Posted on Aug.24.2010 @ 09:48PM EDT by SoulSister

Hello everyone-

I have always been on the spiritual path, but a recent  painful break-up really led me toward Zen study and practice. I am still relatively new but fascinated by it. I do have a basic question as to how to apply it or shift my thinking regarding a particular situation. I have always been an overthinker and so please bear with me!

The gist is that my former lover/best friend decided to end our relationship and despite conversation of possible reconciliation and certainly staying in each others' lives, she cut off communication and didn't look back. This brought up a number of feelings for me and I sat with my feelings until I was able to start to shift my negative thought patterns.  Zen and Buddhist principals have helped me tremendously but I do have one question that still at times returns...

If this person decides never to have anything to do with me again, the ego of course is still screaming, "Please love me! I love you! Why don't you care about me?"  Because you wonder how someone can just drop another person that they did care about.

My question is how to reconcile my  feelings about what has transpired.  I have been broken open and I can see the wonderful things that have happened in my life as a result of the break-up, but if she is to never care to speak to me again, what would be a Zen principal to help me deal with this idea?

Thank you! Again, please forgive me as I am fairly new to all of this!


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Reply from so_teh
Aug.24.2010
10:01PM EDT 
Email so_teh
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In

:)

:)

:)

:(

:(

:(

Out

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Reply from Woodsman
Aug.24.2010
11:50PM EDT 
Email Woodsman
vertical line The questions we ask ourselves are impossible to answer with words that immediately take us away from "our" meaningless suffering. I mean, it's okay to ask, but the answers still need to come from within as seeing that we are vastly more than bodies and minds, fears and feelings, rejects.

Tomorrow the sun will come out, as if from behind a cloud of dark sadness, and within that light at all times love is the offering, and like the sun's light/love we are learning to shine our light/love in areas we formerly had no idea or feelings that it was within us to shine and share. We give love to any and all who, whatever needs the light, of love, within your eyes, always.shining on one's self. : )  May the sun smile on you now, in all ways be on  a path to see through the darkest hours to the eternal light in all.
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Reply from shayne
Aug.25.2010
12:43AM EDT 
Email shayne
vertical line turn your own attention away from her and never look back yourself.
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 115642
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Reply from justin
Aug.25.2010
01:10AM EDT 
Email justin
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Try and discover and remember that it is not the missing of the person but the fact that you wanted affimation in your existance as self and having that person leave is a negative. You have been humiliated and shown the reality. You can not control things you can not manipulate things to advantage of just one thing (even this is in error and dualism).

This said it is not the person so there is no need to worry about them. The only person who can do anything is you (even then it is not) only by looking at yourself may you find peace.

vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 115643
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Reply from justin
Aug.25.2010
01:12AM EDT 
Email justin
vertical line also remember there is no detachment there was no attachment to begin with, who was it who was attached?

This was part of the illusion.
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 115644
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Reply from zen-zen
Aug.25.2010
05:21AM EDT 
vertical line One way around it might be to pay attention to such feelings when they arise and dissipate. Observe, taste it in it's fullness. The attention brings the feeling to surface and you may become the master of it instead of having the feeling drive you around.
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 115647
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Reply from 9999999
Aug.25.2010
06:17AM EDT 
Email 9999999
vertical line You can start by trying to realize that negative thought patterns aren't bad and don't need to be changed. 

Next is to see and accept that you are here posting on this board because you want to be happy.
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 115650
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Reply from ______
Aug.25.2010
07:02AM EDT 
vertical line I don't know how you would do that.
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 115651
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Reply from immortal 1
Aug.25.2010
07:10AM EDT 
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Suffering comes from wanting.

If you really love someone, you want only what is best for them, or even if its not the best thing for them what they want for themselves.

Maybe after chasing a wild goose or two, while you have been steadfast, she may well come back to you.

And its not all in the material plane anyway.  I have had confirmed instances of dreaming with other people.  Try falling asleep with no internal dialog going on in your head, while sustaining a picture of her in your mind.  Thats the Shaman way to dreaming. 

Im in the same boat.  Im in love with a married woman, and the only way I can see her is in my dreams.  Maybe later,  who knows?  But for now thats all I have.

vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 115654
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Reply from ______
Aug.25.2010
07:12AM EDT 
vertical line Forgetting yourself is a lifelong process, for some.
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 115656
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Reply from ______
Aug.25.2010
07:29AM EDT 
vertical line The Bagpipe Who Didn't Say No

It was nine o'clock at midnight at a quarter after three
When a turtle met a bagpipe on the shoreside by the sea,
And the turtle said, "My dearie,
May I sit with you? I'm weary."
And the bagpipe didn't say no.

Said the turtle to the bagpipe, "I have walked this lonely shore,
I have talked to waves and pebbles--but I've never loved before. Will you marry me today, dear?
Is it 'No' you're going to say dear?"
But the bagpipe didn't say no.

Said the turtle to his darling, "Please excuse me if I stare,
But you have the plaidest skin, dear,
And you have the strangest hair.
If I begged you pretty please, love,
Could I give you just one squeeze, love?"
And the bagpipe didn't say no.

Said the turtle to the bagpipe, "Ah, you love me. Then confess!
Let me whisper in your dainty ear and hold you to my chest."
And he cuddled her and teased her
And so lovingly he squeezed her.
And the bagpipe said, "Aaooga."

Said the turtle to the bagpipe, "Did you honk or bray or neigh?
For 'Aaooga' when you're kissed is such a heartless thing to say. Is it that I have offended?
Is it that our love is ended?"
And the bagpipe didn't say no.

Said the turtle to the bagpipe, "Shall I leave you, darling wife? Shall I waddle off to Woedom? Shall I crawl out of your life?
Shall I move, depart and go, dear?
Oh, I beg you tell me 'No' dear!"
But the bagpipe didn't say no.

So the turtle crept off crying and he ne'er came back no more,
And he left the bagpipe lying on that smooth and sandy shore.
And some night when tide is low there,
Just walk up and say, "Hello, there,"
And politely ask the bagpipe if this story's really so.
I assure you, darling children, the bagpipe won't say "No."

~ Shel Silverstein
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 115659
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Reply from immortal 1
Aug.25.2010
01:37PM EDT 
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Quote: "Forgetting yourself is a lifelong process, for some. "
.........

Awakening involves forgetting oneself.

But if you survive It, which Im pretty sure not all people do, and you are yourself again, it is a new beginning.

Its not that everything is changed.  It is as it was.  You just can finally see it as It was.

vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 115667
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Reply from shayne
Aug.25.2010
01:43PM EDT 
Email shayne
vertical line Quote: "

Quote: "Forgetting yourself is a lifelong process, for some. "
.........


Awakening involves forgetting oneself.


But if you survive It, which Im pretty sure not all people do, and you are yourself again, it is a new beginning.


Its not that everything is changed.  It is as it was.  You just can finally see it as It was.

"
.........

bullmalarky.

how do you forget yourself and why?
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Reply from SoulSister
Aug.25.2010
01:45PM EDT 
vertical line Thank you all! Immortal, I would be interested to hear your take on your own situation...  
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 115672
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Reply from ______
Aug.25.2010
01:48PM EDT 
vertical line Congratulations are completely out of order, like an outside toilet and society at large.
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 115675
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Reply from ______
Aug.25.2010
01:54PM EDT 
vertical line Jeez.
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Reply from immortal 1
Aug.26.2010
05:05AM EDT 
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Quote: "Thank you all! Immortal, I would be interested to hear your take on your own situation...  "
.........

Im in love with a woman who loves me too, but its not going anwhere because she is in a family and business situation.  And those things are good, and I would not want to hurt them.  If we were young and just met, no other obligations, we would be together by now.  But that is not the way It is.

Love is like the weather.  Not much you can do about it.  When it is raining, the best thing to do is sit by the window with a cup of tea and relax. 

Who knows what the future holds.  She and I are not a fit right now.  Things change.  Or maybe they dont. 

I will wait and see.  In the meantime I will be glad for the moments we have shared.  I will be glad that I have this love, because it a good thing, and the bad thing would be to have to live without love.

Tuck it away close to your heart, SoulSister.  Its not such a heavy thing to carry.  There is a whole eternity ahead, and who knows what will be in It ?

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Reply from immortal 1
Aug.26.2010
07:55AM EDT 
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If youre flying in an airplane and it stalls, heading for the ground nose first, out of control, one of two things will happen.

If you have sufficient altitude, sit back, and leave the controls alone, the plane will right itself.

If you wrestle the controls, even with sufficient altitude, the plane will crash.  And if you dont have sufficient altitude the plane will crash.

In this analogy, attitude = altitude.

vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 115719
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Reply from ______
Aug.26.2010
07:58AM EDT 
vertical line When you're in love with a beautiful woman, it's hard.
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 115720
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Reply from SoulSister
Aug.26.2010
05:40PM EDT 
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Immortal -

thank you for sharing your story and your wisdom.  This has been a very hard but necessary lesson for me. I think your stance on your situation is a good one. If we are coming from spirit, simply loving another without expectation would be enough. But it's a hard thing to learn.  

My issue has been trying to stay in the present and not living in the past, trying to figure out how I could have/should have done things differently. 

Do you feel that things will absolutely happen no matter what if they were meant to be? 

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Reply from SoulSister
Aug.26.2010
05:49PM EDT 
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Even though my former partner and I aren't speaking, I still want to tell her that I love her, you know? Because I want her to know. I'm not sure why but I do.  What would Buddhism say about that I wonder.... ? 

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Reply from immortal 1
Aug.26.2010
06:05PM EDT 
vertical line Quote: "

Immortal -

thank you for sharing your story and your wisdom.  This has been a very hard but necessary lesson for me. I think your stance on your situation is a good one. If we are coming from spirit, simply loving another without expectation would be enough. But it's a hard thing to learn.  

My issue has been trying to stay in the present and not living in the past, trying to figure out how I could have/should have done things differently. 

Do you feel that things will absolutely happen no matter what if they were meant to be? 

"
.........

"
.........

The One that we all are is very aware of what It is doing, and sees all time as one time. 

This is not what I say is the Truth.  It is what I have seen that It is being now, subject to change without notice.  More of the same reality that we live in.  God lives on a bigger scale.

For instance, the largest living thing on the planet is a grove of trees in California.  Its all just one tree, but it looks like a forest because the way it propogates is to sent out shoots below ground level which come up and become another tree.  One, but many.

I dont know why it is so hard to understand that that is much like Gods creation of us.

Dont worry.  It is all under control, just not yours, or mine.  Yet again, since we are all shoots that are extended from the same One, ultimately, abstractly, everything is under our control. 

In 1973 I had a premonition that my girlfriend and I would break up, but that we would meet again by happenstance about 20 years later.  19 years later we met again, as predicted, and have reintegrated into each others lives.  Again the romance didnt take, but we are great friends.  She is like a sister to me now, after another 18 years have gone by. 

We never had the stuff that we wanted to have, romantically, I can see that now, but what we do have is very special.  Sometimes what we want blinds us to what we have.

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Reply from Woodsman
Aug.27.2010
08:34AM EDT 
Email Woodsman
vertical line Offer an ear to hear the call of One in all and big as small.
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 115761
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Reply from shayne
Aug.27.2010
08:50AM EDT 
Email shayne
vertical line Quote: "Quote: "

Immortal -


thank you for sharing your story and your wisdom.  This has been a very hard but necessary lesson for me. I think your stance on your situation is a good one. If we are coming from spirit, simply loving another without expectation would be enough. But it's a hard thing to learn.  


My issue has been trying to stay in the present and not living in the past, trying to figure out how I could have/should have done things differently. 


Do you feel that things will absolutely happen no matter what if they were meant to be? 


"
.........

"
.........

The One that we all are is very aware of what It is doing, and sees all time as one time. 


This is not what I say is the Truth.  It is what I have seen that It is being now, subject to change without notice.  More of the same reality that we live in.  God lives on a bigger scale.


For instance, the largest living thing on the planet is a grove of trees in California.  Its all just one tree, but it looks like a forest because the way it propogates is to sent out shoots below ground level which come up and become another tree.  One, but many.


I dont know why it is so hard to understand that that is much like Gods creation of us.


Dont worry.  It is all under control, just not yours, or mine.  Yet again, since we are all shoots that are extended from the same One, ultimately, abstractly, everything is under our control. 


In 1973 I had a premonition that my girlfriend and I would break up, but that we would meet again by happenstance about 20 years later.  19 years later we met again, as predicted, and have reintegrated into each others lives.  Again the romance didnt take, but we are great friends.  She is like a sister to me now, after another 18 years have gone by. 


We never had the stuff that we wanted to have, romantically, I can see that now, but what we do have is very special.  Sometimes what we want blinds us to what we have.


"
.........

more crap from a crapnugget.
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 115764
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Reply from Woodsman
Aug.27.2010
09:35AM EDT 
Email Woodsman
vertical line gold in sky in crows fly by
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 115769
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Reply from ______
Aug.27.2010
09:53AM EDT 
vertical line Just clearing a throat.
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 115773
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Reply from Woodsman
Aug.27.2010
10:33AM EDT 
Email Woodsman
vertical line writing a note

*bing
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 115785
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Reply from Rishijin
Aug.28.2010
08:06PM EDT 
Email Rishijin
vertical line Quote: "The Bagpipe Who Didn't Say No

It was nine o'clock at midnight at a quarter after three
When a turtle met a bagpipe on the shoreside by the sea,
And the turtle said, "My dearie,
May I sit with you? I'm weary."
And the bagpipe didn't say no.

Said the turtle to the bagpipe, "I have walked this lonely shore,
I have talked to waves and pebbles--but I've never loved before. Will you marry me today, dear?
Is it 'No' you're going to say dear?"
But the bagpipe didn't say no.

Said the turtle to his darling, "Please excuse me if I stare,
But you have the plaidest skin, dear,
And you have the strangest hair.
If I begged you pretty please, love,
Could I give you just one squeeze, love?"
And the bagpipe didn't say no.

Said the turtle to the bagpipe, "Ah, you love me. Then confess!
Let me whisper in your dainty ear and hold you to my chest."
And he cuddled her and teased her
And so lovingly he squeezed her.
And the bagpipe said, "Aaooga."

Said the turtle to the bagpipe, "Did you honk or bray or neigh?
For 'Aaooga' when you're kissed is such a heartless thing to say. Is it that I have offended?
Is it that our love is ended?"
And the bagpipe didn't say no.

Said the turtle to the bagpipe, "Shall I leave you, darling wife? Shall I waddle off to Woedom? Shall I crawl out of your life?
Shall I move, depart and go, dear?
Oh, I beg you tell me 'No' dear!"
But the bagpipe didn't say no.

So the turtle crept off crying and he ne'er came back no more,
And he left the bagpipe lying on that smooth and sandy shore.
And some night when tide is low there,
Just walk up and say, "Hello, there,"
And politely ask the bagpipe if this story's really so.
I assure you, darling children, the bagpipe won't say "No."

~ Shel Silverstein
"
.........


Incredible...
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Reply from AliceIpswi
Aug.29.2012
01:34AM EDT 
Email AliceIpswi
vertical line

thanks to prophetharry for his help! After 20 years of marriage my husband left me and his kids for another woman after consulting with prophetharry about my situation I purchased love spell to bring Michael back to us so we can be a family again it did not take some time for everything to get back to normal, my husband has been back for weeks now, all down to the work prophetharry did for me, my husband was a stubborn devil before, and it took a while, but he came back to me, I even got roses last week from him, Many, many thanks prophetharry@ymail.com
AliceIpswich.
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Reply from Joe Chip
Aug.29.2012
05:12AM EDT 
vertical line ProphetEsoteric surely?
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 141779
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Reply from starduster
Aug.29.2012
05:50AM EDT 
vertical line Quote: "

Suffering comes from wanting.

If you really love someone, you want only what is best for them, or even if its not the best thing for them what they want for themselves.

Maybe after chasing a wild goose or two, while you have been steadfast, she may well come back to you.

And its not all in the material plane anyway.  I have had confirmed instances of dreaming with other people.  Try falling asleep with no internal dialog going on in your head, while sustaining a picture of her in your mind.  Thats the Shaman way to dreaming. 

Im in the same boat.  Im in love with a married woman, and the only way I can see her is in my dreams.  Maybe later,  who knows?  But for now thats all I have.

"
.........

"
.........

This is still true, except the *internal* relationship has continued to grow.

I was lamenting not being with her in this world, but that no longer concerns me.

I believe the *internal* relationship will continue for an eternity, beyond this world.

What more could I ask for ?  Nothing that I can see.

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Reply from Avisitor
Aug.29.2012
08:58AM EDT 
Email Avisitor
vertical line Zen is the practice of Zazen.
It is Buddhism that gives you principles like living in the here and now
Zen doesn't care about your emotional discourse.
It cares about the practice of awareness that is Zazen.

If you want Buddhism to take care of you emotionally and give you what you need to survive your break up ..
Then, I hope you find what you're looking for
It isn't what is prescribed but guess it can apply to this situation.

Mostly, people mature and understand that break up is a part of life
We continue to live and move on with our lives.'
No magic principles. No special prayers. No mantras. No chanting. they won't get the pain out of your heart.
Only time and the ability of our minds to forget things past.
The ability to cloud the past relationships with fuzzy warm feelings.

This is the principle .. but it isn't Buddhism
"Time heals all wounds"
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Reply from Joe Chip
Aug.29.2012
09:37AM EDT 
vertical line Time does not heal all wounds.
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 141799
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Reply from starduster
Aug.29.2012
10:31AM EDT 
vertical line

Quote: "Zen is the practice of Zazen.
It is Buddhism that gives you principles like living in the here and now
Zen doesn't care about your emotional discourse.
It cares about the practice of awareness that is Zazen.

If you want Buddhism to take care of you emotionally and give you what you need to survive your break up ..
Then, I hope you find what youre looking for
It isn't what is prescribed but guess it can apply to this situation.

Mostly, people mature and understand that break up is a part of life
We continue to live and move on with our lives.'
No magic principles. No special prayers. No mantras. No chanting. they won't get the pain out of your heart.
Only time and the ability of our minds to forget things past.
The ability to cloud the past relationships with fuzzy warm feelings.

This is the principle .. but it isnt Buddhism
"Time heals all wounds"
"
.........

I would say that Zen is the concept of *nothingness*, which can be applied to anything from atheism, to satanism, to catholicism, to buddhism, to ... you name it.  Just about anything you can apply a word to.

*nothingness* the undefined and undefinable of unlimited potential from which all arises, or should I say All arises, like God getting out of bed, metaphorically speaking.

But its okay that for you Zen is what you say it is, since it can be anything to anyone.

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Reply from esoteric
Aug.29.2012
10:58AM EDT 
vertical line Quote: "

Quote: "Zen is the practice of Zazen.
It is Buddhism that gives you principles like living in the here and now
Zen doesn't care about your emotional discourse.
It cares about the practice of awareness that is Zazen.

If you want Buddhism to take care of you emotionally and give you what you need to survive your break up ..
Then, I hope you find what youre looking for
It isn't what is prescribed but guess it can apply to this situation.

Mostly, people mature and understand that break up is a part of life
We continue to live and move on with our lives.'
No magic principles. No special prayers. No mantras. No chanting. they won't get the pain out of your heart.
Only time and the ability of our minds to forget things past.
The ability to cloud the past relationships with fuzzy warm feelings.

This is the principle .. but it isnt Buddhism
"Time heals all wounds"
"
.........

I would say that Zen is the concept of *nothingness*, which can be applied to anything from atheism, to satanism, to catholicism, to buddhism, to ... you name it.  Just about anything you can apply a word to.

*nothingness* the undefined and undefinable of unlimited potential from which all arises, or should I say All arises, like God getting out of bed, metaphorically speaking.

But its okay that for you Zen is what you say it is, since it can be anything to anyone.

"
.........

You would say a lot of things.

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Reply from Avisitor
Aug.29.2012
05:46PM EDT 
Email Avisitor
vertical line Bodhidharma is credited with bringing Zen Buddhism to China and he is the First Patriarch of Chinese Zen Lineage. Bodhidharma traveled east to Southern China in 526 A.D.  Bodhidharma crossed the Yangtzu River, and continued north until he arrived at the Shao Lin Temple in Ho Nan Province. It was here that Bodhidharma became famous for meditating 9 years facing a wall.

His major teaching is there are two paths to enter Dharma Gate: Study and Practice.
1.  Bao Yen Hsin: The willingness to accept, without complaining, suffering and unhappiness because you understand it is your own karma.

 2. Sui Yen Hsin: Understanding that all situations are the consequences of karmic causes, and therefore, you maintain equanimity in all circumstances, both negative and positive.

 3. Tsung Fa Hsin: Realizing through practice the essence of your Buddha Nature, which is equanimity.

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Reply from Avisitor
Aug.29.2012
05:48PM EDT 
Email Avisitor
vertical line It really isn't two paths. It is one path. Study and practice ... both must be done to ...
Why do I bother??
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Reply from Joe Chip
Aug.29.2012
05:51PM EDT 
vertical line Too close to Heaven
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 141819
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Reply from nibble
Aug.29.2012
07:08PM EDT 
vertical line All your trouble will be over, so will your pain
you are gonna see those blue skies bursting right through the rain
The higher you climb, the lower you fall
You got too close to heaven, that's all

Now in the morning you can cry all you want to
- we'll spend the whole day weeping
Right now I want you to lay down your weary head
and let me see you sleeping
You've been walking around baby, inflamed and ashamed
feeling like you're one inch tall
You got too close to heaven, that's all

You're way too hard on yourself baby
- you got some pretty basic things wrong
You wouldn't believe me if I told you why I wrote you into this song
You're looking at your heart baby, and you're calling it black
but like Icarus and like Saul
You got too close to heaven, that's all

Now I know this hurt you're feeling - I've felt these same things too
I've got spaces way down deep inside of me that are just the same as you
You wanna wrap your arms around your head, turn out the lights
and roll yourself into a ball
You got too close to heaven, that's all

Are you blinded by the brilliance ?
Are you dazzled by the Light ?
Why is it I see nothing but emptiness in your tired beaten eyes
that once were bright
I know you just can't help but run when you hear that sweet voice call
You got too close to heaven, that's all

I walked a mile for you baby
so won't you smile for me baby ? 
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Reply from Avisitor
Aug.29.2012
09:31PM EDT 
Email Avisitor
vertical line Quote: "Zen is the practice of Zazen.
It is Buddhism that gives you principles like living in the here and now
Zen doesn't care about your emotional discourse.
It cares about the practice of awareness that is Zazen.

If you want Buddhism to take care of you emotionally and give you what you need to survive your break up ..
Then, I hope you find what you're looking for
It isn't what is prescribed but guess it can apply to this situation.

Mostly, people mature and understand that break up is a part of life
We continue to live and move on with our lives.'
No magic principles. No special prayers. No mantras. No chanting. they won't get the pain out of your heart.
Only time and the ability of our minds to forget things past.
The ability to cloud the past relationships with fuzzy warm feelings.

This is the principle .. but it isn't Buddhism
"Time heals all wounds"


"
.........

I'm surprised that I didn't get banned for telling my opinion.
I look for the actualization of the truth
And speak my mind when topics get all warm and fuzzy
Being blunt is my nature.
I apologize for not being so like-able
But, I will always try to be honest
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Reply from boymonk
Aug.30.2012
12:53AM EDT 
vertical line "The problem is all inside your head", she said to me
The answer is easy if you take it logically
I'd like to help you in your struggle to be free
There must be fifty ways to leave your lover

She said it's really not my habit to intrude
Furthermore, I hope my meaning won't be lost or misconstrued
But I'll repeat myself, at the risk of being crude
There must be fifty ways to leave your lover
Fifty ways to leave your lover

You just slip out the back, Jack
Make a new plan, Stan
You don't need to be coy, Roy
Just get yourself free
Hop on the bus, Gus
You don't need to discuss much
Just drop off the key, Lee
And get yourself free

Ooo slip out the back, Jack
Make a new plan, Stan
You don't need to be coy, Roy
Just listen to me
Hop on the bus, Gus
You don't need to discuss much
Just drop off the key, Lee
And get yourself free

She said it grieves me so to see you in such pain
I wish there was something I could do to make you smile again
I said I appreciate that and would you please explain
About the fifty ways

She said why don't we both just sleep on it tonight
And I believe in the morning you'll begin to see the light
And then she kissed me and I realized she probably was right
There must be fifty ways to leave your lover
Fifty ways to leave your lover

You just slip out the back, Jack
Make a new plan, Stan
You don't need to be coy, Roy
Just get yourself free
Hop on the bus, Gus
You don't need to discuss much
Just drop off the key, Lee
And get yourself free

Slip out the back, Jack
Make a new plan, Stan
You don't need to be coy, Roy
Just listen to me
Hop on the bus, Gus
You don't need to discuss much
Just drop off the key, Lee
And get yourself free
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Reply from simple
Aug.30.2012
03:18AM EDT 
Email simple
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Quote: "Too close to Heaven "
.........

How much you make it taut the better it gets. :)

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Reply from Riverstone
Aug.30.2012
03:34PM EDT 
vertical line You do not detach from relationship. That is how you detach from relationship. The more you resist something the more power it has, do not resist and it will flow naturally. Avoid it and it will wait for you. Grief has its own time, my job is only to be kind to myself as it flows through me.

When I tell myself to embrace an experience, I am not saying, grab it and ride the thing until it stops bucking. Its more like, 'stop running away from it', just look at it, try not to engage it in the sense that I am fluffing it up, and let it go. This is an ongoing process rather than steps of graduation.

When my mother died it seemed that grief would never die. Strangely, it was my resistance to the grief which was the most painful, though I did not at the time understand this.

Grief is a strange thing when it is not expected. It impales you and like a bug pinned to a cork-board, you feel powerless to remove it or the pain it causes. That conceptual idea of pain is the problem. It is not an outside force. The tender, romantic, sentimental, joyful place within us is the same exact place that pain comes from. So when you try to extract the pain of suffering and grief, you are trying to remove your capacity for joy as well. You are attempting to eliminate your capacity to feel. It is the same effort as taking your eye out because it saw something disturbing. The eye, and what it sees is no where nearly as painful as the story you create about what that organ received in visual data. Equanimity does not eliminate the capacity to feel so (to use the metaphor of someone else) you become a Zen Zombie. Equanimity does experience the disturbing or pleasant data, it simply does not give into the momentum of being for or against that experience. With this practice very little will disturb you, but when it does, you allow it the space it needs to be what it is as it passes without your interference. If you think of attachment as your interference or your manipulations. Then you can ask “How do I detach from grieving a relationship.” and then reword it as “How do I not interfere with the grief over this relationship?”.

You may not know it, but you have this marvelous capacity to provide an abundant amount of space to any experience you have. If you detect, grief, pain, disturbing feelings of any kind and you immediately corral it as a means to control it, you have just made it more obvious. You see the fence you have put it in has now turned it into a beast rattling a cage. If however you remove all fences and provide it with an abundant amount of infinite room and space, it does very little harm. And it allows you the room to not only be kind to yourself in this moment, but when you recognize others in these moments, to allow them the space they need. I am neither attached to nor detached to the grief over my mother' s death now. It has integrated into my experience, it is a functional part of me, it is natural that I miss her, and it is natural to live my life without her. Not all disturbing experiences are like this, most just make a visit and step out again.
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Reply from so_teh
Aug.30.2012
08:16PM EDT 
Email so_teh
vertical line http://tinybuddha.com/blog/how-to-let-go-of-a-past-relationship-10-steps-to-peacefully-move-on/
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Reply from simple
Aug.31.2012
03:39AM EDT 
Email simple
vertical line Riverstone, sorry for your mother.hope you are okay.if everything is permanent that wouldn't be life.
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Reply from starduster
Aug.31.2012
07:43PM EDT 
vertical line

Quote: "Quote: "Zen is the practice of Zazen.
It is Buddhism that gives you principles like living in the here and now
Zen doesn't care about your emotional discourse.
It cares about the practice of awareness that is Zazen.

If you want Buddhism to take care of you emotionally and give you what you need to survive your break up ..
Then, I hope you find what you're looking for
It isn't what is prescribed but guess it can apply to this situation.

Mostly, people mature and understand that break up is a part of life
We continue to live and move on with our lives.'
No magic principles. No special prayers. No mantras. No chanting. they won't get the pain out of your heart.
Only time and the ability of our minds to forget things past.
The ability to cloud the past relationships with fuzzy warm feelings.

This is the principle .. but it isn't Buddhism
"Time heals all wounds"


"
.........

I'm surprised that I didn't get banned for telling my opinion.
I look for the actualization of the truth
And speak my mind when topics get all warm and fuzzy
Being blunt is my nature.
I apologize for not being so like-able
But, I will always try to be honest
"
.........

You dont get banned for your opinion here, from speaking your mind, or from the heart.

What gets you banned in other forums is claiming to know, when the operators think they know something different, with which you disagree, and then youre out, because youre going against what they are trying to teach.

No one is tryting to teach anything here.  In fact teaching is expressly verbotten.  Say what you want to say.  Others will agree, ignore, argue, ridicule, or whatever, as they wish.  Thats why I like this place.

Its an open forum....

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Reply from Avisitor
Aug.31.2012
08:34PM EDT 
Email Avisitor
vertical line I wasn't trying to teach anything.
I expressed my opinion as an opinion
Apparently, these went against the wishes of the staff there.
Others in the forum didn't seem to mind and actually wanted to discuss ideas.
But, I guess I am wrong cause I'm the one that is kicked out, banned forever.
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Reply from starduster
Sep.02.2012
04:22AM EDT 
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How do you detach from relationships ?

I usually hang in there as long as I can, because I want it to work.  But at some point I find, or realize, Im in it alone so I might as well be alone.  Then I go.

Sometimes, like with my ex wife, thats when they decide they want to make it work.  But by then its too late, Ive moved on emotionally.

Fortunately things have developed with the Spirit to a point where I dont have to look outside myself anymore.  I have everything I need already, inside.

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Reply from Joe Chip
Sep.02.2012
06:55AM EDT 
vertical line I'm the right man, wrong side of the tapestry.
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Reply from Avisitor
Sep.02.2012
09:26AM EDT 
Email Avisitor
vertical line Quote: "

How do you detach from relationships ?

I usually hang in there as long as I can, because I want it to work.  But at some point I find, or realize, Im in it alone so I might as well be alone.  Then I go.

Sometimes, like with my ex wife, thats when they decide they want to make it work.  But by then its too late, Ive moved on emotionally.

Fortunately things have developed with the Spirit to a point where I dont have to look outside myself anymore.  I have everything I need already, inside.

"
.........

I hadn't figured out how to let go of a relationship ... until ...
Have had a thing for my high school sweetheart .. even when she dumped me ...
it was going on 35 years. A couple of years ago I actually called her up to talk.
Still felt like the little boy who lost her. But, I knew it was just me not letting go.
I said my good byes again. I think I finally let her go. Damn, just thought of her again.
When will it ever end?? Hahaha
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Reply from Joe Chip
Sep.02.2012
09:29AM EDT 
vertical line 35 years? I thought you were about 12.
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Reply from Avisitor
Sep.02.2012
06:10PM EDT 
Email Avisitor
vertical line Quote: "35 years? I thought you were about 12."
.........

Hahaha,  ... I had thought the same about you!!!
Can see the faces behind the words
The wrinkles and the crows feet surely don't say wisdom ... hahaha
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Reply from Joe Chip
Sep.02.2012
08:15PM EDT 
vertical line I am a child bride.
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Reply from so_teh
Sep.02.2012
10:50PM EDT 
Email so_teh
vertical line To kick a desire just watch it through.


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Reply from so_teh
Sep.03.2012
12:40AM EDT 
Email so_teh
vertical line Through and through...and through until...you hit a kill switch.
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Reply from starduster
Sep.03.2012
04:50AM EDT 
vertical line

Quote: "Through and through...and through until...you hit a kill switch."
.........

Like Avisitor, I held onto hope with a childhood sweetheart for over 30 years.  I thought she was my only hope, even though I knew I was not in love with her, or her with me.

The Spirit told me she was the wrong one, but helped me anyway because that was what I wanted, and asked for. 

But finally it reached the point, when she dumped me again, in 2003, that I came to understand in my heart that it was long since over and I wanted to let go of it.  I couldnt let go of it until I wanted to, and it finally got to the point that I did want to. 

We are still friends, especially now that I know we should have always been *just friends*.

Now I am in love with another woman, since 2007, but as Ive said before shes married, moved away, I rarely see her or talk with her anymore, etc.  But the Spirit says she is the right one, and I dream of her, or with her, everyday in the Void.  Its what I call an *internal relationship*, but it is a very happy one.  The Spirit tells me it will last forever, far beyond this lifetime.

I dont have plans to get together with her in this lifetime, although I would be glad to if she wants to.  Her husband has been a bit jealous from time to time.  To him I would say, *Dont worry about it, man, Im no threat to you.* 

By the time she and I get where we are going, this world wont even exist.  I say that because in our own plane of existence this particular plane of existence, this world, is not part of it.  From what Ive *seen* in the Void, the Spirit can create an unlimited number of planes of existence, but each one is separate and distinct from the others.  Im going home to mine, the one the Spirit has given me, and thats all I need, want, or care about.

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Reply from starduster
Sep.03.2012
05:08AM EDT 
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I just thought of a metaphor to describes planes of existence.

Like in a glass of Coca Cola, there are all kinds of little bubbles clinging to the inside of the glass. 

They are all inside the same place, the glass of Coke being compared to the Void in that sense.  And they are all separate and distinct. 

One by one they let go of the glass, rise to the top, and pop into nothingness.

From what I have *seen* in the Void, the awareness there, the Spirit, Universal Mind, God, or whatever you want to call It, creates these planes of existence for Its own amusement, pleasure, and other reasons, of Itself, by Itself, for Itself, as there is nothing else, just nothingness.  its not all good, but it is all better than nothing.

What I *witnessed* in the Void that I didnt understand before is that creation is not past tense.  In the Void there is only now.  Creation is all in one moment.  All that exists is what the awareness of the Void is being *now*.  It all *is* being created *now*.  Nothing else exists except that which It is being now.  And It can be anything, subject to change without notice.  It can shake the universal etchasketch and start over from scratch in an instant.

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Reply from so_teh
Sep.03.2012
03:32PM EDT 
Email so_teh
vertical line NO OTHER FORM
On one occasion, the Buddha said to the monks this:
"No other form do I know, O monks, that so persists in obsessing the mind of a man as the form of a woman.
The form of a woman persists in obsessing the mind of a man.

"No other sound do I know that so persists in obsessing the mind of a man as the sound of a woman...
No other scent do I know ... No other taste do I know ... No other touch do I know that so persists in obsessing
the mind of a man as the touch of a woman. The touch of a woman persists in obsessing the mind of a man.

"No other form do I know, O monks, that so persists in obsessing the mind of a woman as the form of a man.
The form of a man persists in obsesssing the mind of a woman.

"No other sound do I know that so persists in obsessing the mind of a woman as the sound of a man...
No other scent do I know... No other taste do I know ... No other touch do I know that so persists in obsessing
the mind of a woman as the touch of a man. The touch of a man persists in obsessing the mind of a woman."

Anguttara Nikaya
translated by Nyanaponika Thera and Bhikkhu Bodhi
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Reply from Riverstone
Sep.04.2012
03:49PM EDT 
vertical line Quote: "It really isn't two paths. It is one path. Study and practice ... both must be done to ...
Why do I bother??


"
.........

I think because in the process of helping others it is inevitable we help ourselves and in the process of letting people help us we help everyone. That is why I bother, even if I come off sounding like I don't know a damn thing or if I come off sounding like a know it all. That is not my intention and there are times I do get caught in my own perspective, and watching people here who are caught in their own perspective I kind of chuckle "dang i was just doing that!" not at them, but at myself, which is us.
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Reply from Joe Chip
Sep.04.2012
03:54PM EDT 
vertical line Knowing me, knowing you, A-Ha! Dong, I kind of giggle in all the inappropriate places.
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Reply from Avisitor
Sep.04.2012
06:38PM EDT 
Email Avisitor
vertical line Quote: "Quote: "It really isn't two paths. It is one path. Study and practice ... both must be done to ...
Why do I bother??


"
.........

I think because in the process of helping others it is inevitable we help ourselves and in the process of letting people help us we help everyone. That is why I bother, even if I come off sounding like I don't know a damn thing or if I come off sounding like a know it all. That is not my intention and there are times I do get caught in my own perspective, and watching people here who are caught in their own perspective I kind of chuckle "dang i was just doing that!" not at them, but at myself, which is us.
"
.........

Yes, it is trying to solidify the understanding for myself and hopefully into doing so that I can help others. But my poor mind is lacking ... so I sound more like the a-hole than a wise man. Guess nothing new in that. Never wanted to sound like the wise man .. Only to be the wise one.
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Reply from so_teh
Sep.04.2012
10:07PM EDT 
Email so_teh
vertical line Dispersion

Prism

Just looking at this concept here in terms of relationships. You know you go into a relationship as a whole (light beam). Beautiful. The light of love is always that way. In everybody's case there is a dispersion to happen. So you know, it runs into a prism of sorts and the light begins to separate and out shoots a spectrum. Now I'm sure at this point you have seen your beloveds true colors. Beautiful. And I am sure there are multi-dispersions throughout the life of a committed relationship. Or maybe just one in the short term to tell you you are ready to move on. The process of dispersion indicates a truth in wholeness and separation.
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Reply from starduster
Sep.05.2012
05:44AM EDT 
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Quote: "Dispersion

Prism

Just looking at this concept here in terms of relationships. You know you go into a relationship as a whole (light beam). Beautiful. The light of love is always that way. In everybodys case there is a dispersion to happen. So you know, it runs into a prism of sorts and the light begins to separate and out shoots a spectrum. Now Im sure at this point you have seen your beloveds true colors. Beautiful. And I am sure there are multi-dispersions throughout the life of a committed relationship. Or maybe just one in the short term to tell you you are ready to move on. The process of dispersion indicates a truth in wholeness and separation.
"
.........

Ive been an *empath* all my life, since I was a baby in diapers who couldnt even talk yet.

I feel people.  I once said to a boss of mine, "I cant read peoples minds, or hear what they say to themselves in their heads.  But sometimes I can feel what other people are feeling, and that is usually enough to let me know what they are thinking."

Usually that results in disappointment, especially in love.  Ive loved and been disappointed many many times.  Ive only been in-love twice.  The first was a disappointment, and I killed it right away.  The second is still going on, and Im ashamed to say that I am not as good a person as she is.  She is way ahead of me especially in terms of kindness and generosity. 

Aside from the Spirit Itself, there are other beings I have met in my astral travels whom I call friends.  In the song Stairway to Heaven, which came to Jimmy Page in a dream, they are referred to as *those who stand watching*.  One of them said to me, *Everyone likes her because she likes everyone.*  The Spirit said of her, *She has heart, and lots of it.*

I like your light and prism metaphor of love and relationships.  I like my beloveds true colors.

Funny thing about colors.  Things are everything but the color they appear to be.  The color they reflect is the color they reject.  The sky and water are not blue, they absorb every color except blue which they reflect back.

The colors people pick as their favorite colors are not truly representative of them.  They are called *compensatory colors* (Luscher Color Test), They represent qualities the person is trying to cultivate or wishes to have. 

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Reply from Joe Chip
Sep.05.2012
05:57AM EDT 
vertical line I like the way adverts are killing the Internet.
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