history principles practice stories, books, media discussion forum organizations resources
zenguide.com logo
 
Monday Oct 20 2014 11:44PM ET
º login º register º email º guestbook º printer friendly
grey dot
  Ryokan, a Zen master, lived the simplest kind of life in a little hut at the foot of a mountain. One evening a thief visited the hut only to discover there was nothing to steal. Ryokan returned and caught him. "You have come a long way... continue...

z
.
e
.
n
menu left history menu spacer principles menu spacer practice menu spacer zen media menu spacer discussion forum menu spacer organization directory menu spacer resources  
login
  DISCUSSION FORUM
» topic list   » start a new topic   » my tracked topics   » view topic
grey dot

horizontal line
→→→→ vertical line TOPIC: THE EIGHTH PRECEPT OF ZEN BUDDHISM
vertical line Posted on Jan.23.2012 @ 11:15AM EDT by chontri

The eighth of the ten cardinal precepts of Zen Buddhism says:

"Not to withhold spiritual or material aid but give them freely to where needed."

Can this be done?



Go to Latest Reply   Reply to this Topic   Email chontri
horizontal line
 
horizontal line
Reply from Joe Chip
Jan.23.2012
11:22AM EDT 
vertical line What do you need?
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 135140
horizontal line
 
horizontal line
Reply from chontri
Jan.23.2012
11:37AM EDT 
Email chontri
vertical line

Quote: "What do you need?"
.........
Yes, if you do not know what someone really needs, you got to ask him/her: "What do you need?" and listen to his/her answer before you can proceed to give what you have.

vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 135142
horizontal line
 
horizontal line
Reply from suchness`
Jan.23.2012
11:59AM EDT 
vertical line yes, if done without attachment.
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 135143
horizontal line
 
horizontal line
Reply from chontri
Jan.23.2012
03:14PM EDT 
Email chontri
vertical line

....without attachment to what?

vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 135146
horizontal line
 
horizontal line
Reply from suchness`
Jan.23.2012
06:03PM EDT 
vertical line Quote: "

....without attachment to what?

"
.........
to gain for ego, from the giver.
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 135153
horizontal line
 
horizontal line
Reply from chontri
Jan.23.2012
07:17PM EDT 
Email chontri
vertical line Quote: "Quote: "

....without attachment to what?

"
.........
to gain for ego, from the giver.
"
.........
How could you do giving without attachment to gain for ego from the giver?
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 135162
horizontal line
 
horizontal line
Reply from suchness`
Jan.23.2012
07:37PM EDT 
vertical line Quote: "Quote: "Quote: "

....without attachment to what?

"
.........
to gain for ego, from the giver.
"
.........
How could you do giving without attachment to gain for ego from the giver?
"
.........
if i understand your question....... you could do giving from your heart (the correct way), not form a standpoint of making the giver feel good in some inauthentic way (ego). to give with good intent (and that is what we are talking about here) with helping the person that needs giving to without using it to make our self feel good about our own self.

so my point is, if we give from our heart and not hoping to gain some good feeling about it for ourselves (being attached to that). in the `west or america, most giving is not real or authentically given form the heart. many people here give, money and such, but want it to be known, like a news paper announcement. they give so other people will know about it for their egos sake, not for the person in need.
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 135167
horizontal line
 
horizontal line
Reply from chontri
Jan.23.2012
10:00PM EDT 
Email chontri
vertical line

No giver, no receiver, nothing given, only giving.

vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 135170
horizontal line
 
horizontal line
Reply from RossaDassa
Jan.23.2012
10:08PM EDT 
Email RossaDassa
vertical line This place is awesome
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 135171
horizontal line
 
horizontal line
Reply from starduster
Jan.24.2012
04:20AM EDT 
vertical line

If someone asks for help, try to help them if you can.

Harm is done when people take it upon themselves to help someone who has not asked.

When a friend and her husband were breaking up, his parents took their daughter, and her son from a previous marriage, into their *Christian Custody* and would not let her see them.  The boy later related that he was forced to pray for days, etc, until she finally got them back.

This is an example of someone helping the way they think help should be given, without being asked.  But it did simplify the custody battle, as she told her husband that either she got custody of their daughter or his parents would be charged with kidnapping. (Actually, that was my suggestion when she asked me for help, and it worked.)

vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 135174
horizontal line
 
horizontal line
Reply from kelvintan
Jan.25.2012
09:07AM EDT 
Email kelvintan
vertical line Quote: "

No giver, no receiver, nothing given, only giving.

"
.........

"
.........

Selflessness without any Concept Having Obliterate No Thought Remains In Giving.

With Metta to Chontri and all.

Happinessisnowhere

vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 135241
horizontal line
 
horizontal line
Reply from chontri
Jan.25.2012
09:57AM EDT 
Email chontri
vertical line Quote: "Quote: "

No giver, no receiver, nothing given, only giving.

"
.........

"
.........

Selflessness without any Concept Having Obliterate No Thought Remains In Giving.

With Metta to Chontri and all.

Happinessisnowhere

"
.........
Hello Mr. Kelvintan,

Long time no see.
How have you been?
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 135243
horizontal line
 
horizontal line
Reply from kelvintan
Jan.25.2012
12:53PM EDT 
Email kelvintan
vertical line Quote: "Quote: "Quote: "

No giver, no receiver, nothing given, only giving.

"
.........

"
.........

Selflessness without any Concept Having Obliterate No Thought Remains In Giving.

With Metta to Chontri and all.

Happinessisnowhere

"
.........
Hello Mr. Kelvintan,

Long time no see.
How have you been?
"
.........

"
.........
Hello Mr. Kelvintan,

Long time no see.
How have you been?
"
.........

Dear All

May those who see or hear of these words and  efforts put in by Chontri in guiding with great compassion, generate the Bodhi-mind.

Just to add that Pure giving is when we have no attachments to the thought that we have given, that someone has received or that something has been given.

With Metta to All

Happinessisnowhere to read as

 Happiness is no where          or

Happiness is now here.

vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 135248
horizontal line
 
horizontal line
Reply from chontri
Jan.25.2012
01:19PM EDT 
Email chontri
vertical line Quote: "Quote: "Quote: "Quote: "

No giver, no receiver, nothing given, only giving.

"
.........

"
.........

Selflessness without any Concept Having Obliterate No Thought Remains In Giving.

With Metta to Chontri and all.

Happinessisnowhere

"
.........
Hello Mr. Kelvintan,

Long time no see.
How have you been?
"
.........

"
.........
Hello Mr. Kelvintan,

Long time no see.
How have you been?
"
.........

Dear All

May those who see or hear of these words and  efforts put in by Chontri in guiding with great compassion, generate the Bodhi-mind.

Just to add that Pure giving is when we have no attachments to the thought that we have given, that someone has received or that something has been given.

With Metta to All

Happinessisnowhere to read as

 Happiness is no where          or

Happiness is now here.

"
.........
Mr. Kelvintan,

"
.........
Mr. Kelvintan,

You are a happy man.

That's why you put CT in too big words.
CT does not fit any of them.

vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 135249
horizontal line
 
horizontal line
Reply from kelvintan
Jan.25.2012
01:26PM EDT 
Email kelvintan
vertical line

If they understand, things are just as they are.

If they do not understand, things are just as they are.

With Metta

Happinessisnowhere

vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 135250
horizontal line
 
horizontal line
Reply from Joe Chip
Jan.25.2012
01:28PM EDT 
vertical line Both And - perish the thought.
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 135251
horizontal line
 
horizontal line
Reply from zenmanstan
Mar.01.2012
12:15PM EDT 
Email zenmanstan
vertical line giving service perish the thought afterwords amen
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 136409
horizontal line
 
horizontal line
Reply from Woodsman
Mar.01.2012
01:59PM EDT 
Email Woodsman
vertical line Once you begin honest giving to a stranger as to your child, family becomes everywhere a balancing act as I withhold from myself the ease of satiation as a balance of giving over getting. Eventually we get back what we have been giving free of time and motion constraints and with a mystic's eye see where before we were blind, hear of what we could not imagine, and feel unity in every diversity, until we are father, brother, sister, mother of all being... let it all be one hand clapping.
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 136411
horizontal line
 
horizontal line
Reply from justin
Mar.01.2012
10:01PM EDT 
Email justin
vertical line woodsy, i know what u mean, my family (or what i consider my family) just gets bigger and bigger everyday.

and much to my surprise my capacity for love just gets bigger also :)

as separate from lust,

actually i think love is the wrong expression of what i mean here, it is possibly just an overall understanding (from the deep attention of my own mind and behaviours)
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 136431
horizontal line
 
horizontal line
Reply from Joe Chip
Mar.02.2012
06:37AM EDT 
vertical line Hello son.

Your capacity to discriminate seems to be working overtime.

Invoke the unlimited capacity that sees all points of view, to perceive all truths as true, even if they contradict. The capacity for listening is the capacity for translating the parables. The capacity which is unfathomable, the capacity that neither increases nor decreases.
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 136434
horizontal line
 
horizontal line
Reply from starduster
Mar.21.2012
08:56AM EDT 
vertical line

*After having been away from home for five years,

I was amazed at how much my father had learned

in such a short amount of time.*

Mark Twain

vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 136783
horizontal line
 
horizontal line
Reply from Woodsman
Mar.21.2012
09:38AM EDT 
Email Woodsman
vertical line To be with sin is here within all lost to win.
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 136785
horizontal line
 
horizontal line
Reply from starduster
Mar.22.2012
04:42AM EDT 
vertical line

Quote: "Hello son.

Your capacity to discriminate seems to be working overtime.

Invoke the unlimited capacity that sees all points of view, to perceive all truths as true, even if they contradict. The capacity for listening is the capacity for translating the parables. The capacity which is unfathomable, the capacity that neither increases nor decreases.
"
.........

When everything is born out of Nothingness,

everything is the same.

Ergo the phrase: *All things being equal, ....*

vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 136805
horizontal line
 
horizontal line
Reply from Rysman
Mar.22.2012
09:53AM EDT 
Email Rysman
vertical line "Not to withhold spiritual or material aid but give them freely to where needed."

Implicit in this is the concept of understanding the need. Have you ever picked up something that another dropped. That would be material aid, your helping them not to suffer loss. I use this smallest of acts to make the point that when we do something that small there is no sense of seeking reward it is just a reflex to help another. Bodhisattva giving on any level is this way. No matter the size of our aid a true Bodhisattva is not seeking reward or merit because the Bodhisattva realizes that there is no "self" no "I" that can be rewarded.

Giving is no Giving.
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 136811
horizontal line
 
horizontal line
Reply from simple
Mar.28.2012
05:54AM EDT 
Email simple
vertical line

The eighth of the ten cardinal precepts of Zen Buddhism says:

"Not to withhold spiritual or material aid but give them freely to where needed."

Can this be done?

---------------------------------------

Why it cant be done?

vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 136953
horizontal line
 
horizontal line
Reply from Avisitor
Jun.24.2012
02:33AM EDT 
Email Avisitor
vertical line Quote: "Quote: "Quote: "

....without attachment to what?

"
.........
to gain for ego, from the giver.
"
.........
How could you do giving without attachment to gain for ego from the giver?
"
.........

It has got to be done in a way s as not to create more karma
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 139007
horizontal line
 
horizontal line
Reply from boymonk
Jun.25.2012
07:33PM EDT 
vertical line I have not to give. Well, maybe I could part company with my black sock beneath the dresser, on the second floor, in back of the huge pile of gold! ha ha ...
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 139041
horizontal line
 
horizontal line
Reply from Avisitor
Sep.16.2012
10:18AM EDT 
Email Avisitor
vertical line Quote: "Quote: "Quote: "Quote: "

....without attachment to what?

"
.........
to gain for ego, from the giver.
"
.........
How could you do giving without attachment to gain for ego from the giver?
"
.........

It has got to be done in a way s as not to create more karma
"
.........
]I thought I knew.
Now, I just don't know anymore.

Why is that??
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 142707
horizontal line
 
horizontal line
Reply from Joe Chip
Sep.16.2012
10:38AM EDT 
vertical line 'Cuz you strain out zen and swallow GQQGLE.
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 142711
horizontal line
 
horizontal line
Reply from esoteric
Sep.16.2012
12:58PM EDT 
vertical line Quote: "Quote: "Quote: "Quote: "Quote: "

....without attachment to what?

"
.........
to gain for ego, from the giver.
"
.........
How could you do giving without attachment to gain for ego from the giver?
"
.........

It has got to be done in a way s as not to create more karma
"
.........
]I thought I knew.
Now, I just don't know anymore.

Why is that??
"
.........

Keep don't knowing. Then you'll see why.
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 142714
horizontal line
 
horizontal line
Reply from esoteric
Sep.16.2012
12:59PM EDT 
vertical line Quote: "'Cuz you strain out zen and swallow GQQGLE."
.........

Is that what you doo?
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 142715
horizontal line
 
horizontal line
Reply from Joe Chip
Sep.16.2012
01:27PM EDT 
vertical line Nah, I digest the All, as ya doo.
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 142717
horizontal line
 
horizontal line
Reply from Avisitor
Sep.18.2012
05:26AM EDT 
Email Avisitor
vertical line Quote: "Nah, I digest the All, as ya doo."
.........

You can digest doo??
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 142788
horizontal line
 
horizontal line
Reply from starduster
Sep.18.2012
05:33AM EDT 
vertical line

Quote: "Nah, I digest the All, as ya doo."
.........

Your way is interesting,

a unique blend of humility and curiousity,

*seeing*, as seers do.

Thanks for showing me some of the things youve seen,

for warning me and trying to save me from myself.

Thanks to you, I have been able to make the necessary adjustments,

and everything has worked out just fine in the long run.

vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 142789
horizontal line
 
horizontal line
Reply from Joe Chip
Sep.20.2012
06:27AM EDT 
vertical line Food sweet to Avisitor's taste, proves bitter-sour in digestion.
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 142860
horizontal line
 
horizontal line
Reply from Avisitor
Sep.20.2012
08:34AM EDT 
Email Avisitor
vertical line Quote: "Food sweet to Avisitor's taste, proves bitter-sour in digestion."
.........
Yeah, I'm lactose intolerant ... haha
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 142863
horizontal line
 
horizontal line
Reply from Joe Chip
Sep.20.2012
08:38AM EDT 
vertical line Yeah, you're intolerant.
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 142865
horizontal line
 
Back To Topic List   Go to Top of Page

 



SUPPORT ZENGUIDE.COM
If you are planning on purchasing any product from amazon.com, you can help us out by using the search box to the right or by clicking on this link to begin shopping.


Purchase posters, art prints, media (music CD & DVD)

buy this MIROKOKU-BOSATSU (MAITREYA)
by
Puchase this Item
More Art Prints & Media
Zen & Buddhism books
 
 
d
.
i
.
s
.
c
.
u
.
s
.
s
.
i
.
o
.
n
.

.
f
.
o
.
r
.
u
.
m
.
Copyright © 1999 - 2014 zenguide.com - All rights reserved. °