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→→→→ vertical line TOPIC: WHAT IS "LOVE"?
vertical line Posted on Mar.08.2012 @ 03:10AM EDT by JTollefson
My ego (my mind) had almost driven me insane in the past because I didn't have enough love in my life. Now I have a good wife that gives me a lot of love, but I'm finding love is not constant. I'm not constantly around her, and occasionally we have an argument.

Just like everything in this universe, love seems to be temporary as well. So why does our ego/mind want it so much? Our ego is constantly hungry for it, but it is never satisfied. But I have never understood what "love" is. I mean, could you define it? Sometimes it seems like nothing more then an invention that was imagined up. You can't reach out and touch it.

I believe I have had an epiphany. I believe love is the currency of the ego.

What is currency? If you hold a dollar bill, it is just a piece of paper. If you look at the numbers in your bank account, they represent only something that is imaginary. Yet people are constantly hungry for more, and are never satisfied with the amount they have. There is no such thing as having enough.

The ego constantly wants more. Look what those constant drives have created. For a long time I have looked at large business buildings and thought to myself, "all of that was created for a reason that is imaginary."

But my topic today is what love is. Why do people like to cook wonderful meals? Why do people like to paint beautiful artwork? They may make a living doing it later, but why do they like to do it in the first place? I think it is so people will appreciate them. I think that love is their motivation. Where would we be without love? I've always wanted to start a family, but now that I have a wife the reason has changed. I find I want to make a better living and have kids for her happiness. I'm much more motivated to do these things now.

Maybe love only exists to motivate us. To be a drive. Just like money. The currency of the mind.

Does this sound true? I am excited to hear everyone's feedback. Is my understanding expanding, or am I completely off the mark?
Go to Latest Reply   Reply to this Topic   Email JTollefson
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Reply from starduster
Mar.08.2012
04:44AM EDT 
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Love is the most sought after prize in the Universe.

Even God wants it more than anything else.

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Reply from Woodsman
Mar.08.2012
08:46AM EDT 
Email Woodsman
vertical line Our love is balanced on social norms, media methodology, and corporate gain (which was once the church, still is for some), but the nature of love is still based on sex being the prime motivator for behavior and conditioning for gain, as in "it's mine", selfishness, not selflessness. Love is based  on survival instinct, when we argue our instinct fails and we are left, faced with being alone, an exact opposite condition of acceptance and love in the unknown.

I have to go bring my van to the shop, brakes need work, again, it's old, like me.
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Reply from Joe Chip
Mar.08.2012
08:54AM EDT 
vertical line Love is a grenade in the brain, the rubble of a house. Love is walking into Chapel Perilous, through a vortex. Love is stepping out over my dead body, igniting a fuse straight to my Mother's heart.
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 136619
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Reply from *CSEe*
Mar.08.2012
09:15AM EDT 
Email *CSEe*
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Love=hate=desire=emotions=compassion=ego= greed =all in "myself"=pollutant in me.

Thks just sharing views

CSEe

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Reply from starduster
Mar.08.2012
10:08AM EDT 
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Love is like a Rainbow.

Its all well and good if you just appreaciate its beauty in nature, in yourself, and in another.

But if you go looking for a pot of gold at the end of the Rainbow, you will likely end up disappointed.

vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 136621
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Reply from so_teh
Mar.08.2012
11:13AM EDT 
Email so_teh
vertical line What can it be?
What is it?

vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 136622
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Reply from Joe Chip
Mar.08.2012
11:38AM EDT 
vertical line Diabetes?
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 136623
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Reply from creature
Mar.08.2012
11:39AM EDT 
vertical line What you think love is only tells you what you think love is. Same with currencies and wants of the ego.
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 136624
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Reply from Hollow
Mar.08.2012
01:14PM EDT 
vertical line When love is forgotten, ego appears.
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 136625
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Reply from Joe Chip
Mar.08.2012
01:23PM EDT 
vertical line Currency is spending your life conjugating three verbs; to want; to have; to do.
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 136626
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Reply from Joe Chip
Mar.08.2012
01:27PM EDT 
vertical line Metacosmic realities: a dollar suspended;  jesus karma; spendthrift love.  

What will you do with all the money you save?
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Reply from Hollow
Mar.08.2012
01:32PM EDT 
vertical line Save a penny for the ferryman, or you're swimming Styx.


Love is no currency.
Ego-"love" is attachment.
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 136628
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Reply from creature
Mar.08.2012
02:19PM EDT 
vertical line Baby don't hurt me, don't hurt me, no more. 
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 136629
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Reply from Mugaku
Mar.08.2012
11:32PM EDT 
Email Mugaku
vertical line love without attachment to self = altruism
love with attachment to self = not as good
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 136635
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Reply from Woodsman
Mar.08.2012
11:44PM EDT 
Email Woodsman
vertical line love with freedom of desire is perfectly unknown

don't think it, feel all becoming free of desire

want a flower?

just reach out your hand to help and a flower blooms outwardly
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 136636
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Reply from 9999999
Mar.09.2012
12:39AM EDT 
Email 9999999
vertical line love is fear
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 136637
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Reply from nowornever
Mar.09.2012
05:38AM EDT 
Email nowornever
vertical line Question : What is love?
Answer: How can I help you?

vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 136642
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Reply from Joe Chip
Mar.09.2012
07:29AM EDT 
vertical line Love is a comedian.
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 136646
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Reply from starduster
Mar.11.2012
08:28AM EDT 
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Quote: "Baby don't hurt me, don't hurt me, no more.  "
.........

There is only one that I love, and shes the only one who can hurt me.

Others have tried, but give them a blank stare for their efforts.  They cant even get close.

Without love there would be no one who could hurt me, even if they killed me,

but then I wouldnt have love. 

It does seem that everything comes with a price.

vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 136689
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Reply from Woodsman
Mar.11.2012
02:01PM EDT 
Email Woodsman
vertical line Love has no enemies or opposites. 
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Reply from Woodsman
Mar.11.2012
04:24PM EDT 
Email Woodsman
vertical line Love takes less and less to give more and more.

The earth is our home of love, by taking less and less of the earth we revive our past, path of being given more out of nothingness. Until there is an arising of a single strain out of which divides into two then doubles again, then divides the space around it until it has formed a whole image of union with the sun.

You see, and are the sunlight of my eyes.
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Reply from creature
Mar.11.2012
05:32PM EDT 
vertical line "Where beauty is, then there is ugliness;
where right is, also there is wrong.
Knowledge and ignorance are interdependent;
delusion and enlightenment condition each other.
Since olden times it has been so.
How could it be otherwise now?
Wanting to get rid of one and grab the other
is merely realizing a scene of stupidity.
Even if you speak of the wonder of it all,
how do you deal with each thing changing?"
-Ryokan

or,
"Joy wouldn't feel so good, if it wasn't for pain."
-50 cent

Where love is, there is hate (or indifference or whatever opposite is preferable). Where there is hate, there is love.  As there is no hate, in and of itself, there is no love, in and of itself. Taking this concept further, there is neither hate or love.

Concepts and words delude the mind and cloud the vision from what is real. But there is no real understanding without delusion, and delusion is never removed from what is real. What is the difference between knowing and not knowing, real and delusional, hate and love in the context where neither difference or similarity exists?
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Reply from starduster
Mar.12.2012
05:47AM EDT 
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Real or not real.

That which creates, and that which is created.

Without creation the creator still exists, to create again, and again.

Were there no creator there would be no creation.

So one could say that the creator is real and creation is not.

But while the creator creates, whatever the creator creates,

is not that which is created within the creator, of and by the creator,

as real as the creator itself ? 

What is that which can be anything ?  What is Its nature ?  What is Its essence ?

It is whatever It is being, at the moment, Things as It is.

vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 136699
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Reply from nowornever
Mar.12.2012
06:01PM EDT 
Email nowornever
vertical line Love is what you are doing now if, of course, it is not for you.
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 136705
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Reply from so_teh
Mar.12.2012
06:18PM EDT 
Email so_teh
vertical line Look on, here and now. Touch in, the love.
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 136706
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Reply from Woodsman
Mar.12.2012
07:30PM EDT 
Email Woodsman
vertical line TOUCH OUT WITHOUT HOLDING ON TO ANYTHING THAT CAN BE GRASPED....
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 136707
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Reply from so_teh
Mar.12.2012
09:29PM EDT 
Email so_teh
vertical line Woot.
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 136708
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Reply from Woodsman
Mar.12.2012
09:48PM EDT 
Email Woodsman
vertical line W o'o' M
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Reply from Hollow
Mar.12.2012
11:22PM EDT 
vertical line Ambition-crushing contentment
like you could just do nothing forever and not mind a bit.
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Reply from starduster
Mar.13.2012
05:12AM EDT 
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Quote: *Ambition-crushing contentment
like you could just do nothing forever and not mind a bit.*

.........

If my ambition had not been crushed,

I might have wasted the rest of my life on it.

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Reply from Woodsman
Mar.13.2012
09:55AM EDT 
Email Woodsman
vertical line Love is an opening of the truth, and the truth is not easy to look at, or talk about. The truth is hard to face, and feel, until we soften our attitude or hardness and closed mindedness.

But love opens the door between us, as being in human form, and seeing into the similarities of life's hardships and suffering all around us at all times, day or night, within all creation and conscious as well as subconsciousness, and timelessness.

Having the freedom of expressing the truth about love is a divine gift, and when I say, or write 'divine' I am expressing my understanding of spiritual reality as being alive in every moment, under all conditions of life's hardships and suffering. Zen makes it possible to sit with suffering and not have to challenge it with words or ideas of anything other than being open with what is, but what is can be written about too. So love as a door can always open, and become a light to see within every dark place, into what has been rejected, forgotten or unrealized before now.

Ok, I have to go let the dogs in.


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Reply from starduster
Mar.14.2012
10:31AM EDT 
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I might be happier living in a tipi on a hippie commune.

That could be a good retirement plan.

Maybe I should start one.

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Reply from starduster
Mar.21.2012
08:38AM EDT 
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Quote: "Love is an opening of the truth, and the truth is not easy to look at, or talk about. The truth is hard to face, and feel, until we soften our attitude or hardness and closed mindedness.

But love opens the door between us, as being in human form, and seeing into the similarities of life's hardships and suffering all around us at all times, day or night, within all creation and conscious as well as subconsciousness, and timelessness.

Having the freedom of expressing the truth about love is a divine gift, and when I say, or write 'divine' I am expressing my understanding of spiritual reality as being alive in every moment, under all conditions of life's hardships and suffering. Zen makes it possible to sit with suffering and not have to challenge it with words or ideas of anything other than being open with what is, but what is can be written about too. So love as a door can always open, and become a light to see within every dark place, into what has been rejected, forgotten or unrealized before now.

Ok, I have to go let the dogs in.


"
.........

Moody Blues : 

*The truth is hard to handle, thats what the wall of love is for.*

*Each and every rising son is greeted by the lonely One....*

*Its calling you back to face the music... The world that is calling is you.*

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Reply from Woodsman
Mar.21.2012
09:35AM EDT 
Email Woodsman
vertical line What's for dinner? I may ask, as if my salvation is based on consumption. Sin is consumption.

Fasting in silence gives back what has been taken from us in dishonest denial that we are one with everything, (a sensation of pain is a feeling without question), so we can come to consider sensation as having value over thought.

How are you thinking?

Good, bad and indifference are just concepts as to what the heart does, not know. No?
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Reply from starduster
Mar.22.2012
04:45AM EDT 
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Quote: "What's for dinner? I may ask, as if my salvation is based on consumption. Sin is consumption.

Fasting in silence gives back what has been taken from us in dishonest denial that we are one with everything, (a sensation of pain is a feeling without question), so we can come to consider sensation as having value over thought.

How are you thinking?

Good, bad and indifference are just concepts as to what the heart does, not know. No?
"
.........

I dont think as much as I used to,

but my heart feels much more than it used to.

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Reply from BFRayfield
Mar.27.2012
09:34PM EDT 
Email BFRayfield
vertical line Nonexistence is isomorphic (a math word) to the set of all self-consistent possibilities, since nonexistence is made of "nothing" and all possibilities are made of "something", but "nothing" and "something" are just labels, and labels don't change content, so they're the same thing. The universe is simultaneously everything and nothing. Love is flowing with something more like 1 system, being more in sync. Going by my technical definition, nonexistence is infinite love because it is everything together (which cancels-out to nonexistence). Of course nonexistence has no mind since then it would be unbalanced and exist. On a smaller scale, there are still things which flow together as 1 system, like the neurons in 1 brain, or the brains of people in a society, or the laws of physics vibrating against parts of itself keeping it the way it is instead of some other physics. A more intuitive way to understand what is War and what is Love, as the 2 core symbols of the math system myself and many spirits (or whatever you want to call them) use, at this thread: "War on words Love on ideas" http://www.zenguide.com/forum/view.cfm?topicid=8057
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Reply from frozenaomi
Mar.27.2012
11:23PM EDT 
Email frozenaomi
vertical line Quote: "Nonexistence is isomorphic (a math word) to the set of all self-consistent possibilities, since nonexistence is made of "nothing" and all possibilities are made of "something", but "nothing" and "something" are just labels, and labels don't change content, so they're the same thing. The universe is simultaneously everything and nothing.

Love is flowing with something more like 1 system, being more in sync. Going by my technical definition, nonexistence is infinite love because it is everything together (which cancels-out to nonexistence). Of course nonexistence has no mind since then it would be unbalanced and exist.

On a smaller scale, there are still things which flow together as 1 system, like the neurons in 1 brain, or the brains of people in a society, or the laws of physics vibrating against parts of itself keeping it the way it is instead of some other physics.

A more intuitive way to understand what is War and what is Love, as the 2 core symbols of the math system myself and many spirits (or whatever you want to call them) use, at this thread:

"War on words Love on ideas"
http://www.zenguide.com/forum/view.cfm?topicid=8057
"
.........

I think this is an interesting argument, although I find the terms War and Love a little jarring, but that is an emotional reaction. Also, I do think if not for Newton Einstein would not have produced what he did. Information being additive and all that.

Still, the point I really wanted to raise was that set of all things need not necessarily exclude nothing. Really, it all depends on where you set the boundaries of your matrix. The question is, can a matrix become recursive when the set of all bounds includes everything, nothing, and itself? What would the transform set of an infinite recursive matrix imply?
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Reply from Woodsman
Mar.27.2012
11:30PM EDT 
Email Woodsman
vertical line Quote: "

Quote: "What's for dinner? I may ask, as if my salvation is based on consumption. Sin is consumption.

Fasting in silence gives back what has been taken from us in dishonest denial that we are one with everything, (a sensation of pain is a feeling without question), so we can come to consider sensation as having value over thought.

How are you thinking?

Good, bad and indifference are just concepts as to what the heart does, not know. No?
"
.........

I dont think as much as I used to,

but my heart feels much more than it used to.

"
.........

On the way to feel enlightenment, with every turn, next is never last.
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Reply from frozenaomi
Mar.27.2012
11:36PM EDT 
Email frozenaomi
vertical line I think my comment needs a point of clarrification: it disputes the boundaries of the set being something and redefines it to thing. Fundamentally your list is limited to real positive integers, but this restriction while frequently useful is not natural, the null value has natural correspondences and is not, in and of itself, irrational. Therefor no-thing is still a thing with just as mch topographical validity as everything.
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Reply from simple
Mar.28.2012
05:39AM EDT 
Email simple
vertical line Quote: "Quote: "

Quote: "What's for dinner? I may ask, as if my salvation is based on consumption. Sin is consumption.

Fasting in silence gives back what has been taken from us in dishonest denial that we are one with everything, (a sensation of pain is a feeling without question), so we can come to consider sensation as having value over thought.

How are you thinking?

Good, bad and indifference are just concepts as to what the heart does, not know. No?
"
.........

I dont think as much as I used to,

but my heart feels much more than it used to.

"
.........

On the way to feel enlightenment, with every turn, next is never last.
"
.........

"
.........

On the way to feel enlightenment, with every turn, next is never last.
"
.........

I loved what Woodsman has said here.

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Reply from Woodsman
Mar.28.2012
08:56AM EDT 
Email Woodsman
vertical line Quote: "Quote: "Quote: "

Quote: "What's for dinner? I may ask, as if my salvation is based on consumption. Sin is consumption.

Fasting in silence gives back what has been taken from us in dishonest denial that we are one with everything, (a sensation of pain is a feeling without question), so we can come to consider sensation as having value over thought.

How are you thinking?

Good, bad and indifference are just concepts as to what the heart does, not know. No?
"
.........

I dont think as much as I used to,

but my heart feels much more than it used to.

"
.........

On the way to feel enlightenment, with every turn, next is never last.
"
.........

"
.........

On the way to feel enlightenment, with every turn, next is never last.
"
.........

I loved what Woodsman has said here.

"
.........

What I meant to say, was nothing, but was up at 0530 am today fixing a flashlight, was a one time throw her away brand. Well, I woke up, sat up on the side of the bed and with a vice clamp got it opened, cleaned out the inside corrosion and put new batteries in and duct taped it shut. And now it works again!

Then I walked through the dark hallway with a piece of savaged aluminum sheet metal and carved out a holding stand for a gallon of hand pumice (orange) cleaner that can now rest on the sink edge, basically I made a soap stand. Whyes!!! Big overhead stretch, and another cup of coffee. BLESSED

Should I eat yet,? Not hungry for food yet, just more projects. Later comes the moving of a mammoth white ash  tree out front  which has to be cut up for heating firewood, and got both my garden tractors to work, without food, just parts replaced. BLESSED AGAIN

TANKS and thanks
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Reply from nibble
Mar.28.2012
04:41PM EDT 
vertical line U sound like me when feeling like cosmos has it in for me  starting to get like totally thankful for everything that could but don`t go to hell:)

"thanx for not spilling more of my coffee cup while driving  late here and thnx for not letting the lighter fall all the way under the seat or somewhere totally unreachable "

Saying that patiently to myself is a nice way to get out of a tilt I think. Thou On a Really bad day I say that to God and not myself.. Maybe a little more dramatic and sarcastically then.

”Great!! Thnk you, thnk you God for not spilling this whole cola over my clothes! My clothes might be ruined now right before this &#% meeting I am late for but at least I have a slump of cola left! That is so &#% generous and thoughtful, thou I am a little disappointed that not more cola blasted all over the dashboard and interior!!”

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Reply from Rysman
Mar.29.2012
12:02AM EDT 
Email Rysman
vertical line Love is a word. As a word it is simply a sound we produce. Ask a hundred, a thousand, a million people what love "is" and that is how many answers you will get.

Love is an illusion we create to make us feel good. It actually is a little like enlightenment. You cannot explain it, and the longer it lasts the harder it is to explain. After a while it ceases to resemble anything you've ever been told that it is.

Here is my take on love.

You wake up at 6:20am to make coffee, not because you need to get up that early but because your wife does and you want to spend time with her.

You do the same jerks laundry for 30 years (and counting) simply because you know the idiot would run out of clothes if you didn't.

You get in a serious, loud argument and instead of storming off you "both" decide you should sit down and actually talk it out and actually listen what the other is saying.

You realize that the things that used to really piss you off about the other person have now become only minor irritations and some of them are your favorite things about them.

Together you watch your children grow up and start making the same mistakes you made and there is nothing you can do to stop it.

Just a few thoughts.

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Reply from starduster
Mar.29.2012
03:50AM EDT 
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Quote: "U sound like me when feeling like cosmos has it in for me  starting to get like totally thankful for everything that could but don`t go to hell:)

"thanx for not spilling more of my coffee cup while driving  late here and thnx for not letting the lighter fall all the way under the seat or somewhere totally unreachable "

Saying that patiently to myself is a nice way to get out of a tilt I think. Thou On a Really bad day I say that to God and not myself.. Maybe a little more dramatic and sarcastically then.

”Great!! Thnk you, thnk you God for not spilling this whole cola over my clothes! My clothes might be ruined now right before this &#% meeting I am late for but at least I have a slump of cola left! That is so &#% generous and thoughtful, thou I am a little disappointed that not more cola blasted all over the dashboard and interior!!”

"
.........

lol  !!

Gods sense of humor is impeccable !!

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Reply from starduster
Apr.02.2012
10:55AM EDT 
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Quote: "TOUCH OUT WITHOUT HOLDING ON TO ANYTHING THAT CAN BE GRASPED.... "
.........

Ive been thinking about getting one of those dolls on Realdolls.com or Boytoy.com.

Someone recommended them to me.  As a Zen Monk I have not done anything at all for quite some time, and that works well since I have great dreams sometimes.  I figure I get them when I need them.

I looked at them, but I dont know if it would be worth 5K or 6K  since dreams are free.  There are some women who have offered to help me out, assuming I need help.  One of them I had already had dream-sex with, and it wasnt that great.  I also worry about disease, or other complications.

Dreams vs toy ?

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Reply from frozenaomi
Apr.02.2012
12:12PM EDT 
Email frozenaomi
vertical line Er, seriously?  I guess if it is a matter of celibacy you have to choose your own rules.  But, the whole go out and actually talk to people option works pretty well...
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Reply from nibble
Apr.02.2012
03:33PM EDT 
vertical line Gawhk... Pssst, Mr. S. I`m not saying I am not a sick " ..".  too, just that there is a reason why I for my part use Proxy’s and TOR and stuff instead of using public spiritual forums to flash or eh,. Anyway, going to Amsterdam tomorrow along with a crazy friend (like "adhd or something crazy"). I see if I can`t help you sort out what is best between some grisly skank and a neat sterile doll when I come back (hopefully) next week;)
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Reply from nibble
Apr.02.2012
03:36PM EDT 
vertical line Psst, hmmm.., just hit me, like sure there are no ethical dilemmas molesting the astral body of young unsuspecting sleeping girls??..
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Reply from starduster
Apr.03.2012
04:44AM EDT 
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Quote: "Er, seriously?  I guess if it is a matter of celibacy you have to choose your own rules.  But, the whole go out and actually talk to people option works pretty well...
"
.........

Actually, women offer me sex all the time and I turn it down.  One of the women I regularly dance with said, "You can get laid any time you want."  I told her Im a Zen Monk, which is really a cop-out because celibacy only applies to monks when they are in residence in a monastery.  Then she said that if I just want to watch her with one of her girlfriends that would be okay too.  I met the girlfriend later and that might be interesting.

Sex is 90% imagination.  The other 10% will cost you everything you have, or can get, and maybe even your life. 

When we see someone we like, even in our minds eye, the brain releases drugs to enhance the effect.  Its part of the reproductive process.  The drugs are Dopamine and Testosterone.  This happens in women too.  If you add alcohol to this mixture it is quite a potent cocktail.  Man is an Ape, and Apes are not monogomous as species go.  Quite simply, we are animals.

I dont have sex with women because of fear of disease mostly.  That in itself makes a life-size and life-like sex doll more attractive to sleep with.  Im old anyway.  Any kind of sex that I get is a bonus.  I heard on the radio this morning that the average man in his life only has eleven sex partners.  Im already at four times that, not even counting the hundreds I have had in dreaming.

Also, I believe that I barely escaped from my last relationship with my life.  I said to her once that I had enough life insurance to cover the mortgage and if I died she should pay it off.  She said, *Wow.  Youre worth more dead than alive.*

I didnt know it until we split up, but she had had a steady boyfriend on the side for three years.  The became an official couple when we broke up.  My Mom died and left me some money about six months later.  It occurred to me that if we had still been married at that time the prospect of getting rid of me for about 500K would have looked like a good idea to them.  I really think they would have killed me off.

So, no, I do not want a woman in this world.  I have the Spirit for an eternity, in this world and beyond.  I asked the Spirit once in meditation who she really is and she said, *Im the one who really loves you.*  Thats more than enough for me, whether as illusion or delusion, I will take it. 

Im not sure if I will get a sex doll.  I asked the Spirit about it and she said it would not affect us positively or negatively in our meditations, but I can have one if I want.  Its a lot of money, 5K to 6K, but would last a lifetime.  Doesnt buy shoes, doesnt want a credit card, doesnt have affairs... the list goes on.  Im only sure that I do not want a real woman in this world.

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Reply from starduster
Apr.03.2012
07:08AM EDT 
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Quote: "Gawhk... Pssst, Mr. S. I`m not saying I am not a sick " ..".  too, just that there is a reason why I for my part use Proxy’s and TOR and stuff instead of using public spiritual forums to flash or eh,. Anyway, going to Amsterdam tomorrow along with a crazy friend (like "adhd or something crazy"). I see if I can`t help you sort out what is best between some grisly skank and a neat sterile doll when I come back (hopefully) next week;) "
.........

That reminds me.  Back in the mid 80s, working with homeless veterans, I contracted some kind of illness.  The doctors didnt know what it was and thought it might be AIDS.  They didnt know much about AIDS transmission back then, and had only had a test for it for about a year.

I stayed home from work for three days waiting for my AIDS test results to come back.  That was a long three days, and I have not been as sexually outgoing since.  I suppose thats why.  I had a lot of time to think.  Maybe too much.

I told my wife at the time that if the results were positive I would have them redone to be sure and then would *zero out*.  She said if that was the case she would want to go too.  I said, *Okay then, we will test you too, and if so I will do you and then myself.*  So this was a very serious matter at the time.

This is not counting the times that I represented female veterans who had chronic vaginal issues.  They were often good looking, the ones that came to a hearing anyway, and I thought to myself that if the guys in the bars who flirted with them knew what I knew they would run to the nearest exit and get the hell out of there.

I think that the way things have progressed in our society, maybe I should review my options.

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Reply from frozenaomi
Apr.03.2012
08:03AM EDT 
Email frozenaomi
vertical line Oh, I'm all for testing. 

The benefits of monogamy are debatable.  I spent the first 10 years of my life with parents who really needed to get divorced.  The idea that marriage provides stability for the children is crap when the parents hate each other.   People change.  Change is.  An arbitrary system that forces continuity is doomed to failure. 

That said hook-ups are also terrifyingly stupid.   I think I am several years younger than most of you, and I can say that, while by all evidence the rates of STD's has gone up, most people in my generation remain largely unconcerned.  So on that level just running into the sack is sheer insanity. 

Sure we are animals and sex is a primal instinct, but we are also highly emotional beings and sex (partly because of oxytocin) deeply entwines these emotions.  Having sex before really understanding someone is just a recipe for getting hurt.

So relationships need to take time - time for testing, both in the clinical sense as well as the emotion.  But relationships are also important.  We are emotional and social creatures, we need strong relationships as much as we need food and water, and while these do not have to be sexual relationships we are instinctively driven to need that too. 

We are intellectual beings, and we can overcome our instincts.  Or, more honestly, we can redirect them.  Whatever, I don't know where I am going with this.  Maybe it is all an instinctive reaction.  Just... inaction is an action as much any action, and caries as many risks.  I hope that all turns out well. 
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Reply from starduster
Apr.03.2012
10:48AM EDT 
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Yeah, I agree with what you said.  Fortunately, I have the Spirit in my meditation, and I have a lot of women friends who give me validation on a regular basis, some for many years, even decades.

I think Im going to get one of these dolls, and just keep it in my bed, to have there for when I wake up from a dream or vision, feelin like I could use a little sumpin sumpin.

I was just talking with a friend here at work, not about that, but about his trip to Europe, which cost him about 4K for less that 2 weeks.  I think this life-size doll is a better idea.

Its not real.  Thats okay.  Nothing is real.

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Reply from boymonk
Apr.04.2012
09:22PM EDT 
vertical line Love is like a flower, lovely. :)
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Reply from starduster
Apr.05.2012
05:01AM EDT 
vertical line Quote: "

Yeah, I agree with what you said.  Fortunately, I have the Spirit in my meditation, and I have a lot of women friends who give me validation on a regular basis, some for many years, even decades.

I think Im going to get one of these dolls, and just keep it in my bed, to have there for when I wake up from a dream or vision, feelin like I could use a little sumpin sumpin.

I was just talking with a friend here at work, not about that, but about his trip to Europe, which cost him about 4K for less that 2 weeks.  I think this life-size doll is a better idea.

Its not real.  Thats okay.  Nothing is real.

"
.........

"
.........

Okay, I took the plunge.  $5600 total, but considering that I dont spend any money on dates Ive already saved a lot more than that and will save a lot more.

There is a woman I have been in love with for about five years now.  I cant have her.  Shes married, and they moved away.  I dont get to see her or talk to her anymore, but everytime I go to sleep I dream of her.  I miss her very much.

So needless to say I ordered a doll that is a life-size life-like version of her.  When I wake up dreaming of her at least I will have this android replica to be with.  It may not all be good, but it is all better than nothing.

Real or not real ?  If you understand *nothingness* everything is real because nothing is real.  Its all illusion, except what you believe in which is delusion.  And 90% of sex is in the imagination anyway. 

The Spirit has been with me in my mind for almost 40 years.  I asked her what she thought about my having dreams and visions of this woman I fell in love with and she said, *Just be with her, and I will be with you.* 

I understand that this woman is a form that the formless, genderless, Spirit has taken to be with me.  Im good with that, and this doll is just an extension of that precept. 

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Reply from starduster
Apr.05.2012
05:29AM EDT 
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Quote: "Psst, hmmm.., just hit me, like sure there are no ethical dilemmas molesting the astral body of young unsuspecting sleeping girls??.. "
.........

I have often been surprised when what I see and hear in my visions comes true.

Once, in a vision, I opened a box and inside was Heather Locklear naked.  I took her out of the box and had sex with her.  Then later, I saw some naked pictures of her on the internet and they were an identical match to what I had seen in my vision of her.  Same thing with some other celebrity movies stars that I have been with in visions.

I was in a vision with an old girlfriend from High School that I had lost long before.  We were still friends though.  In the vision I told her that it wasnt so bad that we didnt stay together, but I wished we could have had kids.  In the vision, she said we could if we did it in a certain way, which we did.  Afterwards, I asked if it had worked.  She said *of course*.  I said, *Do you mean to tell me that you have just become pregnant on Earth right now ?*  She said, *Yes.  Thats exactly what I mean.* 

She was almost 40 at the time, and already had a couple of kids.  I thought the odds were pretty remote that she would have another child.  When she told me she was pregnant, I couldnt talk for several minutes.  I kept opening my mouth to say something but all that would come out was *wow*.  She gave birth to a son exactly nine months to the day after the vision. 

I never told her, and we have never talked about that vision in this world, but still she keeps me up to date on his goings on as if she knows somehow.  And when she would come to town she would ask me to watch him for her, to take him places, so I could spend some time with him.  He just turned 18, and now hes a full grown man on his own.  I have some pictures on my fridge of my Dad, me, and him, in a row and its like a matched set, he looks so much like us, and not like his brother or sister.  Remarkable.

Shrug....  We are creatures in *nothingness*.  Anything is possible.

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Reply from Woodsman
Apr.05.2012
09:02AM EDT 
Email Woodsman
vertical line Love to be in your eyes as a flower's rise towards the suns realizes one, no more, or lessons, no quest or question.







                                                             ?
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Reply from Avisitor
Jun.16.2012
11:34AM EDT 
Email Avisitor
vertical line Love is the ache that comes from the emptiness we feel when our lives misses the person who fills that void.
As how love relates to an enlightened person, well, we will have to wait until someone else answers that question.
I only know how it is with me.
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Reply from zbishak
Jun.18.2012
08:20AM EDT 
Email zbishak
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the only love you will ever know is the love you feel for whomever/whatever

you may see signs that others may love you

but that just settles your insecurity

it is enough to just love

and let it evolve absent of your needs to control it

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Reply from shayne
Jun.18.2012
03:38PM EDT 
Email shayne
vertical line loves beats in my heart.

love is real.

would you deny it like your own thoughts?

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Reply from Woodsman
Jun.18.2012
06:57PM EDT 
Email Woodsman
vertical line I smile and the girls make a good comment on it, then I make them laugh with a present moment love joke, like this "is in the past, pass, pahhh..." " few cheer us being together as one mind, soul and body, a women a men... ahhh
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Reply from so_teh
Jun.18.2012
11:39PM EDT 
Email so_teh
vertical line The "Platonic Love" that I engaged in for the last several years with the four women that I attached to over that period of time was the wisest and most lovely thing that Spirit could offer me at my level of awareness. Each of them had awesome-beauty and loving-kindness and left a unique impression on my heart. If anything these four women gave me strength and courage and showed me love is forever.
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Reply from so_teh
Jun.18.2012
11:44PM EDT 
Email so_teh
vertical line Love is love...more than a word. Love is a truth...the deepest phenomenon.
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Reply from boymonk
Jun.19.2012
01:55AM EDT 
vertical line On Cold Mountain love is warm.
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Reply from starduster
Jun.19.2012
08:58AM EDT 
vertical line Quote: "

the only love you will ever know is the love you feel for whomever/whatever

you may see signs that others may love you

but that just settles your insecurity

it is enough to just love

and let it evolve absent of your needs to control it

"
.........

"
.........


Welcome back, Zbishak, you have been missed.

and yes I agree, it is only the love that we give that is truly ours.

The love we recieve still belongs to the giver, and they may decide to take it away.

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Reply from starduster
Jun.19.2012
09:02AM EDT 
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Quote: "The "Platonic Love" that I engaged in for the last several years with the four women that I attached to over that period of time was the wisest and most lovely thing that Spirit could offer me at my level of awareness. Each of them had awesome-beauty and loving-kindness and left a unique impression on my heart. If anything these four women gave me strength and courage and showed me love is forever. "
.........

There are a number of women with whom I have platonic relationships,

yet in a number of these instances I have had sex with them in dreaming,

which is just as real when you are doing it, and the memory of it is just as real too.

So when I am with them it is like I am hanging out with a lover..., or former lover....  I've had sex with them even if they haven't had sex with me.  Strange, but that is the sum of it.

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Reply from Woodsman
Jun.19.2012
09:05AM EDT 
Email Woodsman
vertical line Love is a light in every darkness, every moment within one source seen, felt, and heard.

You are very good.
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Reply from zbishak
Jun.19.2012
09:45AM EDT 
Email zbishak
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it is the empathy and compassion one feels for others that brings fulfillment,

not just what we get or give

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Reply from so_teh
Oct.10.2012
11:17PM EDT 
Email so_teh
vertical line Desire>Curiosity>Mood>Person>Game
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Reply from football
Oct.11.2012
05:48AM EDT 
Email football
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Empathy>Sympathy

www.youtube.com/watch?v=9nRMEDgc1Is

Wiilie Nelson - We Dont Run

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Reply from topsy213
Nov.08.2012
04:31AM EDT 
Email topsy213
vertical line Can we love our fellow human selflessly and unconditionally? If we can then we love that person. I found an interesting article on the topic 'what is love'. You can find the article here-http://www.worldtransformation.com/what-is-love/
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Reply from zbishak
Nov.09.2012
06:35AM EDT 
Email zbishak
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fullfillment comes from the loving

it is enough just to love

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Reply from esoteric
Nov.09.2012
06:51AM EDT 
vertical line Quote: "

fullfillment comes from the loving

it is enough just to love

"
.........

Will love feed a hungry man?

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Reply from Joe Chip
Nov.09.2012
06:55AM EDT 
vertical line Depends how fast he is.
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Reply from esoteric
Nov.09.2012
07:07AM EDT 
vertical line Quote: "Depends how fast he is. "
.........
Heh :-)
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Reply from zbishak
Nov.09.2012
07:16AM EDT 
Email zbishak
vertical line Quote: "Quote: "

fullfillment comes from the loving

it is enough just to love

"
.........

Will love feed a hungry man?
"
.........

"
.........

Will love feed a hungry man?
"
.........

he needs to love  food

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Reply from Joe Chip
Nov.09.2012
07:32AM EDT 
vertical line Appetite for love.
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Reply from zbishak
Nov.09.2012
07:40AM EDT 
Email zbishak
vertical line evolution
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