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  Posted on Aug.17.2009 @ 07:39PM EDT by chontri

O monks, even if you have insight that is pure and clear but you cling to
it, fondle it and treasure it, depend on it and are attached to it, then you
do not understand... continue...

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→→→→ vertical line TOPIC: FOOD FOR NO-THOUGHT
vertical line Posted on Mar.08.2012 @ 01:57PM EDT by creature
A silence, breathing
Already, there is hidden
No silence, breathless

When you see no I
there is no You to be seen
and nothing to die

Just a creature, in silence, breathing.

Go to Latest Reply   Reply to this Topic
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Reply from so_teh
Mar.08.2012
03:29PM EDT 
Email so_teh
vertical line That's fine. I even forget to put on shoes in the winter. Tip-toeing to the car in bare feet to retrieve an idem.
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 136631
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Reply from Hollow
Mar.08.2012
03:53PM EDT 
vertical line No creature.
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 136632
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Reply from Woodsman
Mar.08.2012
08:23PM EDT 
Email Woodsman
vertical line 5 more words like this one

boooeeeeeaaauuuhhhmmmmm....

look up!

Now down!

                                                                          over                                                               here!




not there...

back!




                        arf!




                                         woof!





                                                             scarf!?






                                                                                              druf!?







                                                                                                                         dr....ahh...ww.
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 136633
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Reply from creature
Mar.09.2012
09:57AM EDT 
vertical line Quote: "No creature."
.........

Then there is no birth, and no illusion. Far out.
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 136649
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Reply from Joe Chip
Mar.09.2012
10:11AM EDT 
vertical line Nyom nyom.
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 136652
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Reply from starduster
Mar.11.2012
08:22AM EDT 
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Nothing to hang on to,

not even nothing to hang on to.

vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 136687
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Reply from creature
Mar.11.2012
05:47PM EDT 
vertical line Quote: "

Nothing to hang on to,

not even nothing to hang on to.

"
.........

During desperate days I have often woken up to the terror of having nothing to hang on to. Only the truth searcher and/or a person in deep distress of some kind, can know this feeling. It is not desperation, but a presentment of desperation. There is a need to hang on to. When one can see that expression as it is, it takes on a different form. There is a need to hang on to. Perhaps one can begin to understand that there is actually not a need.
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 136694
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Reply from Hollow
Mar.11.2012
06:05PM EDT 
vertical line Patiently, none of the above, nor below.
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 136696
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Reply from starduster
Mar.12.2012
05:24AM EDT 
vertical line Quote: "Quote: "

Nothing to hang on to,

not even nothing to hang on to.

"
.........

During desperate days I have often woken up to the terror of having nothing to hang on to. Only the truth searcher and/or a person in deep distress of some kind, can know this feeling. It is not desperation, but a presentment of desperation. There is a need to hang on to. When one can see that expression as it is, it takes on a different form. There is a need to hang on to. Perhaps one can begin to understand that there is actually not a need.
"
.........

"
.........

During desperate days I have often woken up to the terror of having nothing to hang on to. Only the truth searcher and/or a person in deep distress of some kind, can know this feeling. It is not desperation, but a presentment of desperation. There is a need to hang on to. When one can see that expression as it is, it takes on a different form. There is a need to hang on to. Perhaps one can begin to understand that there is actually not a need.
"
.........

You recounted a meditative experience of nothingness.  I too had such an experience, which I count as recalling being the Self in *the moment before time*, when there was nothing in existence except our core *awareness* and never had been.  No time, no space, not even nothing, ergo *nothingness*.

That Self is not the same as myself, a different personage altogether than me or anyone I have ever met.  Even different than the Spirit, in which form it comes to me.  It comes to everyone differently, in a form uniquely for them.

So when I feel out of sorts, I just remember being the Self,  before or without creation, in nothingness, before there was anything.  It helps to reset the clock sometimes.  And to remember that it may not all be good, but it is all better than nothing.

And its good to remember that if nothingness was enough, in itself, we would have no need of creation.  Personally, I like roller coasters, but my friends don't like to ride with me because I laugh the whole time.  What can I say, Its funny to be afraid.

vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 136697
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Reply from starduster
Mar.12.2012
05:37AM EDT 
vertical line Quote: "Quote: "

Nothing to hang on to,

not even nothing to hang on to.

"
.........

During desperate days I have often woken up to the terror of having nothing to hang on to. Only the truth searcher and/or a person in deep distress of some kind, can know this feeling. It is not desperation, but a presentment of desperation. There is a need to hang on to. When one can see that expression as it is, it takes on a different form. There is a need to hang on to. Perhaps one can begin to understand that there is actually not a need.
"
.........

"
.........

During desperate days I have often woken up to the terror of having nothing to hang on to. Only the truth searcher and/or a person in deep distress of some kind, can know this feeling. It is not desperation, but a presentment of desperation. There is a need to hang on to. When one can see that expression as it is, it takes on a different form. There is a need to hang on to. Perhaps one can begin to understand that there is actually not a need.
"
.........

The Self does have a need to hang on to:

Simply not to be alone.

I think that is what you wake up feeling.  Correct me if Im wrong.

vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 136698
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Reply from starduster
Mar.15.2012
06:32AM EDT 
vertical line Quote: "Quote: "Quote: "

Nothing to hang on to,

not even nothing to hang on to.

"
.........

During desperate days I have often woken up to the terror of having nothing to hang on to. Only the truth searcher and/or a person in deep distress of some kind, can know this feeling. It is not desperation, but a presentment of desperation. There is a need to hang on to. When one can see that expression as it is, it takes on a different form. There is a need to hang on to. Perhaps one can begin to understand that there is actually not a need.
"
.........

"
.........

During desperate days I have often woken up to the terror of having nothing to hang on to. Only the truth searcher and/or a person in deep distress of some kind, can know this feeling. It is not desperation, but a presentment of desperation. There is a need to hang on to. When one can see that expression as it is, it takes on a different form. There is a need to hang on to. Perhaps one can begin to understand that there is actually not a need.
"
.........

You recounted a meditative experience of nothingness.  I too had such an experience, which I count as recalling being the Self in *the moment before time*, when there was nothing in existence except our core *awareness* and never had been.  No time, no space, not even nothing, ergo *nothingness*.

That Self is not the same as myself, a different personage altogether than me or anyone I have ever met.  Even different than the Spirit, in which form it comes to me.  It comes to everyone differently, in a form uniquely for them.

So when I feel out of sorts, I just remember being the Self,  before or without creation, in nothingness, before there was anything.  It helps to reset the clock sometimes.  And to remember that it may not all be good, but it is all better than nothing.

And its good to remember that if nothingness was enough, in itself, we would have no need of creation.  Personally, I like roller coasters, but my friends don't like to ride with me because I laugh the whole time.  What can I say, Its funny to be afraid.

"
.........

"
.........

Every satori, or nirvana, experience is different.  But generally everyone gets the same message, that the Void is where it all comes from, and leads back to. 

I agree about the ‘attachment’ between body and spirit.  There is, in terms of reality, a spiritual us that is in the body, held by the body.  When the body’s hold on us is weakened, or released, we are able then to get out of the body, ergo: out-of-body experiences; astral-travel: or death.  You don’t have to die to get out of the body, but if the body no longer works there is no point in getting back in.  It’s like a wrecked car then. At that point our spiritual self is mobilized. 

That will happen with everyone at death, if not sooner.  And what will happen with the spiritual self after that I suppose depends on the individual, and what options are available to them.  The spiritual self is part of the creative matrix, with or without a body.  Things as It is.

vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 136736
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Reply from Hollow
Mar.15.2012
10:19PM EDT 
vertical line I'm a forgetful person. My philosophy regarding inner discovery reflects as such, and often aligns more with Taoist advice than Buddhist ideals.
Forget there was ever any thing or any one.
Form by unforming, a state of mind that has nothing to do.
When nothing remains to be done, nothing is left undone.
Things are as they are.
This is so, before you even imagine it.
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 136746
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Reply from creature
Mar.27.2012
04:30PM EDT 
vertical line Quote: .........

You recounted a meditative experience of nothingness.  I too had such an experience, which I count as recalling being the Self in *the moment before time*, when there was nothing in existence except our core *awareness* and never had been.  No time, no space, not even nothing, ergo *nothingness*.

That Self is not the same as myself, a different personage altogether than me or anyone I have ever met.  Even different than the Spirit, in which form it comes to me.  It comes to everyone differently, in a form uniquely for them.

So when I feel out of sorts, I just remember being the Self,  before or without creation, in nothingness, before there was anything.  It helps to reset the clock sometimes.  And to remember that it may not all be good, but it is all better than nothing.

And its good to remember that if nothingness was enough, in itself, we would have no need of creation.  Personally, I like roller coasters, but my friends don't like to ride with me because I laugh the whole time.  What can I say, Its funny to be afraid.

"
.........

"
.........

Every satori, or nirvana, experience is different.  But generally everyone gets the same message, that the Void is where it all comes from, and leads back to. 

I agree about the ‘attachment’ between body and spirit.  There is, in terms of reality, a spiritual us that is in the body, held by the body.  When the body’s hold on us is weakened, or released, we are able then to get out of the body, ergo: out-of-body experiences; astral-travel: or death.  You don’t have to die to get out of the body, but if the body no longer works there is no point in getting back in.  It’s like a wrecked car then. At that point our spiritual self is mobilized. 

That will happen with everyone at death, if not sooner.  And what will happen with the spiritual self after that I suppose depends on the individual, and what options are available to them.  The spiritual self is part of the creative matrix, with or without a body.  Things as It is.

"
.........

I was fascinated with this experience but I would not call it an enlightening experience.  It is interesting that you mention astral travel because I was quite engaged in practicing that a few years ago... had some amazing journeys. As invigorating as experiences of void and extended mind and so on may be, I believe they are illusory because they carry away - there is a hint of dependency of understanding death and a greater scheme, moving away from the immediate present. The only experience that holds any real worth, to me, is when you realize the moment, and you become aware that you can stop asking, grasping, whichever makes every expectation and desire of the moment unhinge, upon which everything else will unhinge itself. After which the problem of death is solved and there is no more to grasp or realize, because you have completely freed yourself.

"Just so, Subhuti. I have not acquired even the least thing from supreme enlightenment, and that is called supreme enlightenment."

To expect anything from satori makes it not satori. It is quite simple, really.

The point in which satori arises, crystalline and pure, is the moment in which you stop asking for it - because you do not need it, and not in needing, you have already realized it. Anything else is "riding an ox in search of the ox".

And if that is not satori, I have no need for satori.

vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 136931
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Reply from starduster
Mar.28.2012
05:17AM EDT 
vertical line Quote: "Quote: .........

You recounted a meditative experience of nothingness.  I too had such an experience, which I count as recalling being the Self in *the moment before time*, when there was nothing in existence except our core *awareness* and never had been.  No time, no space, not even nothing, ergo *nothingness*.

That Self is not the same as myself, a different personage altogether than me or anyone I have ever met.  Even different than the Spirit, in which form it comes to me.  It comes to everyone differently, in a form uniquely for them.

So when I feel out of sorts, I just remember being the Self,  before or without creation, in nothingness, before there was anything.  It helps to reset the clock sometimes.  And to remember that it may not all be good, but it is all better than nothing.

And its good to remember that if nothingness was enough, in itself, we would have no need of creation.  Personally, I like roller coasters, but my friends don't like to ride with me because I laugh the whole time.  What can I say, Its funny to be afraid.

"
.........

"
.........

Every satori, or nirvana, experience is different.  But generally everyone gets the same message, that the Void is where it all comes from, and leads back to. 

I agree about the ‘attachment’ between body and spirit.  There is, in terms of reality, a spiritual us that is in the body, held by the body.  When the body’s hold on us is weakened, or released, we are able then to get out of the body, ergo: out-of-body experiences; astral-travel: or death.  You don’t have to die to get out of the body, but if the body no longer works there is no point in getting back in.  It’s like a wrecked car then. At that point our spiritual self is mobilized. 

That will happen with everyone at death, if not sooner.  And what will happen with the spiritual self after that I suppose depends on the individual, and what options are available to them.  The spiritual self is part of the creative matrix, with or without a body.  Things as It is.

"
.........

I was fascinated with this experience but I would not call it an enlightening experience.  It is interesting that you mention astral travel because I was quite engaged in practicing that a few years ago... had some amazing journeys. As invigorating as experiences of void and extended mind and so on may be, I believe they are illusory because they carry away - there is a hint of dependency of understanding death and a greater scheme, moving away from the immediate present. The only experience that holds any real worth, to me, is when you realize the moment, and you become aware that you can stop asking, grasping, whichever makes every expectation and desire of the moment unhinge, upon which everything else will unhinge itself. After which the problem of death is solved and there is no more to grasp or realize, because you have completely freed yourself.

"Just so, Subhuti. I have not acquired even the least thing from supreme enlightenment, and that is called supreme enlightenment."

To expect anything from satori makes it not satori. It is quite simple, really.

The point in which satori arises, crystalline and pure, is the moment in which you stop asking for it - because you do not need it, and not in needing, you have already realized it. Anything else is "riding an ox in search of the ox".

And if that is not satori, I have no need for satori.
"
.........

"
.........

I was fascinated with this experience but I would not call it an enlightening experience.  It is interesting that you mention astral travel because I was quite engaged in practicing that a few years ago... had some amazing journeys. As invigorating as experiences of void and extended mind and so on may be, I believe they are illusory because they carry away - there is a hint of dependency of understanding death and a greater scheme, moving away from the immediate present. The only experience that holds any real worth, to me, is when you realize the moment, and you become aware that you can stop asking, grasping, whichever makes every expectation and desire of the moment unhinge, upon which everything else will unhinge itself. After which the problem of death is solved and there is no more to grasp or realize, because you have completely freed yourself.

"Just so, Subhuti. I have not acquired even the least thing from supreme enlightenment, and that is called supreme enlightenment."

To expect anything from satori makes it not satori. It is quite simple, really.

The point in which satori arises, crystalline and pure, is the moment in which you stop asking for it - because you do not need it, and not in needing, you have already realized it. Anything else is "riding an ox in search of the ox".

And if that is not satori, I have no need for satori.
"
.........

Zen is said to be an *experiential* philosophy because all that can really be said to be true is what you experience. 

I can recount experiences that I have had, astrally or otherwise, but dont ask me to raise my hand in court and swear to what is or is not the Truth, Whole Truth, and Nothing But The Truth.  I could only say I dont know what the Truth is, and I dont believe there is a Truth. 

Some other people I have talked with, including teachers, have had the same *experiences* as I have, but that doesnt make anything The Truth, just commonly shared beliefs.

My own belief is that *It is as It is at the moment, subject to change without notice*.

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Reply from starduster
Mar.28.2012
07:19AM EDT 
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I was fascinated with this experience but I would not call it an enlightening experience.  It is interesting that you mention astral travel because I was quite engaged in practicing that a few years ago...

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I dont claim to be enlightened, and the experience I had equates more closely to Nirvana, although I just claim to be awakened.

In astral travel, I had been to the Void many times.  I just didnt know it because I hadnt heard of it yet. In the experience that I spoke of I was the universal awareness and the Void, per se, to the extent that there isnt such a thing, the absence of everything.  Thats why I used the term *moment before time* (zbishak), because time and space did not even exist, at least not yet.

Since that experience I have been in what I call the Void with the universal awareness daily.  But it isnt really absent of everything on these astral travels as it was during that one experiece that I had.  Time and space, and me, and whoever, exist there with the Spirit.  Its kind of like being in outer space with no planets or stars around, unless the Spirit makes them, of course.

What is illusion ?  Everything.  Maybe even the Spirit itself. 

What is dillusion ?  Everything you believe in, rather than just experiencing.  Because dillusion is *self deception*.

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Reply from creature
Mar.28.2012
12:50PM EDT 
vertical line Well said. 
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 136962
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Reply from Avisitor
Jun.15.2012
03:58AM EDT 
Email Avisitor
vertical line Thanks
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 138851
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