history principles practice stories, books, media discussion forum organizations resources
zenguide.com logo
 
Friday Jul 25 2014 01:40PM ET
º login º register º email º guestbook º printer friendly
grey dot
  Ching Ch'ing, a Chinese Ch'an master, asked a monk:
-What is the sound outside?
The monk answered:
-That is the sound of rain.
The master said:
-Sentient beings are upside down, they lose themselves in pursuit of things.
The... continue...

z
.
e
.
n
menu left history menu spacer principles menu spacer practice menu spacer zen media menu spacer discussion forum menu spacer organization directory menu spacer resources  
login
  DISCUSSION FORUM
» topic list   » start a new topic   » my tracked topics   » view topic
grey dot

horizontal line
→→→→ vertical line TOPIC: BEGIN AGAIN
vertical line Posted on Apr.14.2012 @ 09:44AM EDT by shayne
from nothingness i sprang. from nothingness i shall return.
Go to Latest Reply   Reply to this Topic   Email shayne
horizontal line
 
horizontal line
Reply from nibble
Apr.14.2012
09:51AM EDT 
vertical line Amen.
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 137357
horizontal line
 
horizontal line
Reply from shayne
Apr.14.2012
09:59AM EDT 
Email shayne
vertical line and from nothingness i shall spring again.
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 137358
horizontal line
 
horizontal line
Reply from Woodsman
Apr.14.2012
10:19AM EDT 
Email Woodsman
vertical line i have nothing to say, so i'll just sit, and watch, and wait, for a resurrection of thought, mind and body, to be, one again

sun rise

sunset

the water flows

but I'm not wet, yet
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 137359
horizontal line
 
horizontal line
Reply from Woodsman
Apr.14.2012
01:38PM EDT 
Email Woodsman
vertical line here's one...

just got back inside after workin' out front cuttin', stackin' and haulin' wood from a huge beech tree that gave up the ghost for us

and i propped up on the ground for decoration a center cut piece that wouldn't split where two big trunks joined in the center... very dense, and aged

so am inside takin' a break eatin' lunch, look out front with a thought of a next project and see the stump i left that has a fresh white pine with green needles lined up directly with the art stump i left out

it was like life rising from the dead

ok, what's my next project?

i look outside again for an answer

um, i can't think
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 137360
horizontal line
 
horizontal line
Reply from starduster
Apr.18.2012
05:57AM EDT 
vertical line

from nothingness i sprang. from nothingness i shall return.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Good plan. 

What I especially like about *nothingness*

is all the potential *everythingness*.

Home Sweet Home, the Void.

vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 137412
horizontal line
 
horizontal line
Reply from shayne
Apr.18.2012
09:34AM EDT 
Email shayne
vertical line nothingness and everythingness are mutual yin and yang counterparts.
one does not exist without the other.
the nothingness is you at your heart's center.
the everything is god or the natural world of existance.

vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 137418
horizontal line
 
horizontal line
Reply from starduster
Apr.18.2012
10:46AM EDT 
vertical line

Neither nothingness nor everythingness is the natural or original state.

It is whatever It is being, at the moment.  Things as It is.

You could say that It is always the Void, or that It never is the Void.

It is whatever It is being, at the moment.  That could be anything, or nothing.

Like a televison screen.  Is its natural state blank and dark, or filled with an ever changing picture?  Neither.  It just is whatever image it is tuned to at the moment.  Subject to change without notice; eg:  what if God is channel surfing ?!

vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 137424
horizontal line
 
horizontal line
Reply from frozenaomi
Apr.18.2012
07:48PM EDT 
Email frozenaomi
vertical line Quote: "

Neither nothingness nor everythingness is the natural or original state.


It is whatever It is being, at the moment.  Things as It is.


You could say that It is always the Void, or that It never is the Void.


It is whatever It is being, at the moment.  That could be anything, or nothing.


Like a televison screen.  Is its natural state blank and dark, or filled with an ever changing picture?  Neither.  It just is whatever image it is tuned to at the moment.  Subject to change without notice; eg:  what if God is channel surfing ?!

"
.........


I agree, but going even farther, the notion of "true states" is illusory. A true state implies an enduring identity, which implies the existence of time, that is, something which is has a true identity is static through time.

Rather, each moment. Is distinct, indeed the moment is all that is distinct. The past and future exist only as mental constructs driven by that which we in the moment are thinking about, and the temporal identity we give these thoughts. We are always doing something, even doing nothing is doing something, but is an issuing, memory is actively in the present thinking and pretending that these thoughts are of the past, or else, the future is in the moment presently thinking and we tell ourselves that these are future moments.

I can tell myself my pen is a rocket ship and in that moment is a rocket ship if the manner in which I interact with it is rocketship like. The pen, however, can no more fly me to the moon, than I can relive a past event, because I never actually wind up on the moon, nor does my present circumstance change from thoughts of rearranging my imagined past.

Only by acting in the moment with things that exist in the moment as they are, only by being in the present mind and not assigning values to reality, can we change our condition.

So let me change what I said. Everything has a true nature, everything is exactly what it is in the moment. We can imagine labels onto things, but that does not detract from what they are, only from what we think they are. This is the trouble with belief, when we say we believe something is true, or that something has some identity, we cease to experience what is, and see what we think is.

However, what things are is infinitely maleable, particularly when freed from the need for continuity. The banana is a banana when I pick it up to peal it, and a frog when it hops from my hand.
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 137440
horizontal line
 
horizontal line
Reply from so_teh
Apr.18.2012
08:18PM EDT 
Email so_teh
vertical line http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GJbwSxMYHlQ
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 137441
horizontal line
 
horizontal line
Reply from starduster
Apr.19.2012
06:50AM EDT 
vertical line Quote: "Quote: "

Neither nothingness nor everythingness is the natural or original state.


It is whatever It is being, at the moment.  Things as It is.


You could say that It is always the Void, or that It never is the Void.


It is whatever It is being, at the moment.  That could be anything, or nothing.


Like a televison screen.  Is its natural state blank and dark, or filled with an ever changing picture?  Neither.  It just is whatever image it is tuned to at the moment.  Subject to change without notice; eg:  what if God is channel surfing ?!

"
.........


I agree, but going even farther, the notion of "true states" is illusory. A true state implies an enduring identity, which implies the existence of time, that is, something which is has a true identity is static through time.

Rather, each moment. Is distinct, indeed the moment is all that is distinct. The past and future exist only as mental constructs driven by that which we in the moment are thinking about, and the temporal identity we give these thoughts. We are always doing something, even doing nothing is doing something, but is an issuing, memory is actively in the present thinking and pretending that these thoughts are of the past, or else, the future is in the moment presently thinking and we tell ourselves that these are future moments.

I can tell myself my pen is a rocket ship and in that moment is a rocket ship if the manner in which I interact with it is rocketship like. The pen, however, can no more fly me to the moon, than I can relive a past event, because I never actually wind up on the moon, nor does my present circumstance change from thoughts of rearranging my imagined past.

Only by acting in the moment with things that exist in the moment as they are, only by being in the present mind and not assigning values to reality, can we change our condition.

So let me change what I said. Everything has a true nature, everything is exactly what it is in the moment. We can imagine labels onto things, but that does not detract from what they are, only from what we think they are. This is the trouble with belief, when we say we believe something is true, or that something has some identity, we cease to experience what is, and see what we think is.

However, what things are is infinitely maleable, particularly when freed from the need for continuity. The banana is a banana when I pick it up to peal it, and a frog when it hops from my hand. "
.........

"
.........


I agree, but going even farther, the notion of "true states" is illusory. A true state implies an enduring identity, which implies the existence of time, that is, something which is has a true identity is static through time.

Rather, each moment. Is distinct, indeed the moment is all that is distinct. The past and future exist only as mental constructs driven by that which we in the moment are thinking about, and the temporal identity we give these thoughts. We are always doing something, even doing nothing is doing something, but is an issuing, memory is actively in the present thinking and pretending that these thoughts are of the past, or else, the future is in the moment presently thinking and we tell ourselves that these are future moments.

I can tell myself my pen is a rocket ship and in that moment is a rocket ship if the manner in which I interact with it is rocketship like. The pen, however, can no more fly me to the moon, than I can relive a past event, because I never actually wind up on the moon, nor does my present circumstance change from thoughts of rearranging my imagined past.

Only by acting in the moment with things that exist in the moment as they are, only by being in the present mind and not assigning values to reality, can we change our condition.

So let me change what I said. Everything has a true nature, everything is exactly what it is in the moment. We can imagine labels onto things, but that does not detract from what they are, only from what we think they are. This is the trouble with belief, when we say we believe something is true, or that something has some identity, we cease to experience what is, and see what we think is.

However, what things are is infinitely maleable, particularly when freed from the need for continuity. The banana is a banana when I pick it up to peal it, and a frog when it hops from my hand.
"
.........

I guess that is why some say that Zen is an experiential philosophy.

What you experience at the moment is real, at least to you, which is all that should matter to you in your experience.

I once had a hearing with a vet who said she saw little brown furry creatures who helped her.  The Hearing Officer asked if there were any present at the moment.  She said, *Yes, there are several here now, right next to me.  They came to give me moral support.*  (Of course, she was appealing for an increase for her psychiatric condition.)

I thought at the time that it didnt matter if they were real to me or the Hearing Officer.  They were real to her,  (I didnt get the impression she was lying.)  In her experience they were real, and that was all that should matter to her, especially if they help her. 

They could just be a construct of her subconscious mind, which can make you see or hear anything.  Your five senses only provide input to the brain.  It is your mind which decides what to do with the information.

vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 137445
horizontal line
 
horizontal line
Reply from frozenaomi
Apr.19.2012
08:55AM EDT 
Email frozenaomi
vertical line Quote: "Quote: "Quote: "

Neither nothingness nor everythingness is the natural or original state.



It is whatever It is being, at the moment.  Things as It is.



You could say that It is always the Void, or that It never is the Void.



It is whatever It is being, at the moment.  That could be anything, or nothing.



Like a televison screen.  Is its natural state blank and dark, or filled with an ever changing picture?  Neither.  It just is whatever image it is tuned to at the moment.  Subject to change without notice; eg:  what if God is channel surfing ?!


"
.........


I agree, but going even farther, the notion of "true states" is illusory. A true state implies an enduring identity, which implies the existence of time, that is, something which is has a true identity is static through time.

Rather, each moment. Is distinct, indeed the moment is all that is distinct. The past and future exist only as mental constructs driven by that which we in the moment are thinking about, and the temporal identity we give these thoughts. We are always doing something, even doing nothing is doing something, but is an issuing, memory is actively in the present thinking and pretending that these thoughts are of the past, or else, the future is in the moment presently thinking and we tell ourselves that these are future moments.

I can tell myself my pen is a rocket ship and in that moment is a rocket ship if the manner in which I interact with it is rocketship like. The pen, however, can no more fly me to the moon, than I can relive a past event, because I never actually wind up on the moon, nor does my present circumstance change from thoughts of rearranging my imagined past.

Only by acting in the moment with things that exist in the moment as they are, only by being in the present mind and not assigning values to reality, can we change our condition.

So let me change what I said. Everything has a true nature, everything is exactly what it is in the moment. We can imagine labels onto things, but that does not detract from what they are, only from what we think they are. This is the trouble with belief, when we say we believe something is true, or that something has some identity, we cease to experience what is, and see what we think is.

However, what things are is infinitely maleable, particularly when freed from the need for continuity. The banana is a banana when I pick it up to peal it, and a frog when it hops from my hand. "
.........

"
.........


I agree, but going even farther, the notion of "true states" is illusory. A true state implies an enduring identity, which implies the existence of time, that is, something which is has a true identity is static through time.

Rather, each moment. Is distinct, indeed the moment is all that is distinct. The past and future exist only as mental constructs driven by that which we in the moment are thinking about, and the temporal identity we give these thoughts. We are always doing something, even doing nothing is doing something, but is an issuing, memory is actively in the present thinking and pretending that these thoughts are of the past, or else, the future is in the moment presently thinking and we tell ourselves that these are future moments.

I can tell myself my pen is a rocket ship and in that moment is a rocket ship if the manner in which I interact with it is rocketship like. The pen, however, can no more fly me to the moon, than I can relive a past event, because I never actually wind up on the moon, nor does my present circumstance change from thoughts of rearranging my imagined past.

Only by acting in the moment with things that exist in the moment as they are, only by being in the present mind and not assigning values to reality, can we change our condition.

So let me change what I said. Everything has a true nature, everything is exactly what it is in the moment. We can imagine labels onto things, but that does not detract from what they are, only from what we think they are. This is the trouble with belief, when we say we believe something is true, or that something has some identity, we cease to experience what is, and see what we think is.

However, what things are is infinitely maleable, particularly when freed from the need for continuity. The banana is a banana when I pick it up to peal it, and a frog when it hops from my hand.
"
.........

I guess that is why some say that Zen is an experiential philosophy.


What you experience at the moment is real, at least to you, which is all that should matter to you in your experience.


I once had a hearing with a vet who said she saw little brown furry creatures who helped her.  The Hearing Officer asked if there were any present at the moment.  She said, *Yes, there are several here now, right next to me.  They came to give me moral support.*  (Of course, she was appealing for an increase for her psychiatric condition.)


I thought at the time that it didnt matter if they were real to me or the Hearing Officer.  They were real to her,  (I didnt get the impression she was lying.)  In her experience they were real, and that was all that should matter to her, especially if they help her. 


They could just be a construct of her subconscious mind, which can make you see or hear anything.  Your five senses only provide input to the brain.  It is your mind which decides what to do with the information.

"
.........

Yes, exactly. It is exactly like religion, it is pointless to debate the validity of what anyone else believes, if they believe it then it is real for them, and, likewise, it is impossible to force religion on others, we cannot know if what we believe is true beyond the boundaries of our perceptions.

In parallel, to draw it back to the earlier point, it is possible to experience the present (or at least our version of it) but impossible to know if that experience propagates either forward or backward through time.
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 137447
horizontal line
 
horizontal line
Reply from Avisitor
Jul.21.2012
01:06AM EDT 
Email Avisitor
vertical line Begin again ... that is what my teacher told me when I asked him what I should do when my mind wanders and I lost focus on my breathe. That is very good advice.
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 139639
horizontal line
 
horizontal line
Reply from Chryseis
Jul.21.2012
01:36AM EDT 
vertical line

from nothingness you sprang,  but you had somethingness from the beginning

to nothingness you will return, and the somethingness will extinguish

begin again, or rather, look again, the more you can leave behind the greater the treasure piles within

within, within, where for art this within,

it sits around you and breezes through you like a peaceful arbour,

you bob like a ship in a sheltered harbour,

but that's without, surely not within,

aye, without, without, like the perfume in a rose garden,

like the dew in the morning, like the bark that was removed to make the jo

like the glow from the coals, and the hole in the stove

vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 139641
horizontal line
 
horizontal line
Reply from Avisitor
Jul.23.2012
01:28AM EDT 
Email Avisitor
vertical line Too much.
Who are you before you were born?
No more.
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 139717
horizontal line
 
horizontal line
Reply from leoj99
Jul.23.2012
02:34AM EDT 
vertical line You begin again mostly means start thinking again.
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 139720
horizontal line
 
horizontal line
Reply from Joe Chip
Jul.23.2012
07:28AM EDT 
vertical line Get on with it.
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 139727
horizontal line
 
horizontal line
Reply from Chryseis
Jul.23.2012
07:37AM EDT 
vertical line

Quote: "Too much.
Who are you before you were born?
No more.
"
........

no more? then who were you before you were born?

vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 139729
horizontal line
 
horizontal line
Reply from Avisitor
Jul.23.2012
09:52AM EDT 
Email Avisitor
vertical line Quote: "

Quote: "Too much.
Who are you before you were born?
No more.
"
........

no more? then who were you before you were born?

"
.........
The beginning and the end meet in the middle ...
Who were you before you were born?
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 139737
horizontal line
 
horizontal line
Reply from Joe Chip
Jul.23.2012
09:57AM EDT 
vertical line When you recognise what's in front of your face, that which you're hiding from will be revealed.
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 139739
horizontal line
 
horizontal line
Reply from frozenaomi
Jul.23.2012
01:29PM EDT 
Email frozenaomi
vertical line Quote: "

Quote: "Too much.
Who are you before you were born?
No more.
"
........

no more? then who were you before you were born?

"
.........

Who cares?  Why try to be the person you were?  It's task enough to be the person that you are. 
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 139749
horizontal line
 
horizontal line
Reply from Joe Chip
Jul.23.2012
01:32PM EDT 
vertical line Who's asking?
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 139750
horizontal line
 
horizontal line
Reply from Avisitor
Jul.23.2012
02:27PM EDT 
Email Avisitor
vertical line Quote: "Quote: "

Quote: "Too much.
Who are you before you were born?
No more.
"
........

no more? then who were you before you were born?

"
.........

Who cares?  Why try to be the person you were?  It's task enough to be the person that you are. 
"
.........
Find the answer then you will know who cares or why.
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 139760
horizontal line
 
horizontal line
Reply from Joe Chip
Jul.23.2012
04:06PM EDT 
vertical line Eins Zwei . . .
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 139765
horizontal line
 
horizontal line
Reply from so_teh
Jul.23.2012
05:06PM EDT 
Email so_teh
vertical line Quote: "Eins Zwei . . .

"
.........

Sounds like a Ken Carey book.
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 139766
horizontal line
 
horizontal line
Reply from Chryseis
Jul.23.2012
10:45PM EDT 
vertical line Quote: "Quote: "

Quote: "Too much.
Who are you before you were born?
No more.
"
........

no more? then who were you before you were born?

"
.........
The beginning and the end meet in the middle ...
Who were you before you were born?
"
.........

"
.........
The beginning and the end meet in the middle ...
Who were you before you were born?
"
.........

a semi-colon

in all definitions: latin/italian, english, arabic, greek/church slavonic, literatue, computing usage, and mathematics

vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 139785
horizontal line
 
horizontal line
Reply from Avisitor
Jul.23.2012
11:04PM EDT 
Email Avisitor
vertical line The joke goes something like this ...
A man goes to the doctor and says that his brother thinks he is a chicken.
The doctor asks why don't they cure him. Because we need the eggs.

I'm out of egg. Gotta visit my brother.
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 139788
horizontal line
 
horizontal line
Reply from Joe Chip
Jul.24.2012
07:33AM EDT 
vertical line Uh gotta let this [bwaaaaak] hen out.
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 139800
horizontal line
 
Back To Topic List   Go to Top of Page

 



SUPPORT ZENGUIDE.COM
If you are planning on purchasing any product from amazon.com, you can help us out by using the search box to the right or by clicking on this link to begin shopping.


Purchase posters, art prints, media (music CD & DVD)

buy this ZEN 1
by Atelier Lzc
Puchase this Item
More Art Prints & Media
Zen & Buddhism books
 
 
d
.
i
.
s
.
c
.
u
.
s
.
s
.
i
.
o
.
n
.

.
f
.
o
.
r
.
u
.
m
.
Copyright © 1999 - 2014 zenguide.com - All rights reserved. °