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  Let me tell you about the middle path.

Dressing in rough and dirty garments, letting your hair grow matted,
abstaining from eating any meat or fish, does not clean the one who is deluded.
Mortifying the flesh through excessive... continue...

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→→→→ vertical line TOPIC: I HAVE ACHIEVED KENSHO - WHAT NOW?
vertical line Posted on Apr.27.2012 @ 09:31AM EDT by hellbike
It was about 3 years ago. For 2 years i was obsessed about going back to this state, unable to do anything else. Now obsession is gone, but I still don't know how to go further, how to achieve this state again.

I'm not looking for any kind of long-term guindance as i don't think i need this; however i need *something*, i just don't know what.

Maybe there is someone who could help me?
Go to Latest Reply   Reply to this Topic   Email hellbike
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Reply from boymonk
Apr.27.2012
12:42PM EDT 
vertical line After KENSHO man get Buddha man boobs.
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 137555
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Reply from justin
Apr.27.2012
03:14PM EDT 
Email justin
vertical line Quote: "After KENSHO man get Buddha man boobs. "
.........



lmao !!
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 137560
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Reply from so_teh
Apr.27.2012
03:26PM EDT 
Email so_teh
vertical line "Meditation is not a means to an end. It is both the means and the end."

So you have achieved [the end]. Good. Focus on [the means] which is really, your own life, living and breathing, here and now, as it is.
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 137562
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Reply from frozenaomi
Apr.27.2012
09:15PM EDT 
Email frozenaomi
vertical line I cannot help you, but a question: you need something why? To what end? And for who?

Are you the person who achieved Kenso? Were you different before? Were you different durring the event? Are you different now?
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 137569
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Reply from nowornever
Apr.29.2012
12:21PM EDT 
Email nowornever
vertical line Starduster-answer him, please.
Write your question here http://www.zenforuminternational.org/viewforum.php?f=32
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 137579
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Reply from shayne
Apr.29.2012
12:31PM EDT 
Email shayne
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you can have multiple kensho experiences.

satori is like one last main kensho experience.

kensho is glimpses into a enlightened frame of mind.

or partial turning about of ones mind.

glimpses.

like for example calling black people the n word and one day realizing we dont pick our bodies.

satori is like this but say also realizing all of it all at once.

much more in depth.

fro example a evil person to a decent one.

everyone has had some turning abou tof mind.

\usually dont last.

they revert back.

vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 137581
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Reply from boymonk
Apr.29.2012
04:44PM EDT 
vertical line Quote: "Starduster-answer him, please.
Write your question here http://www.zenforuminternational.org/viewforum.php?f=32
"
.........

That place is where questions go to die. I'm serious.
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 137584
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Reply from Hollow
Apr.29.2012
05:15PM EDT 
vertical line Mind 2.0
It's a software upgrade.
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 137586
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Reply from Woodsman
Apr.29.2012
05:51PM EDT 
Email Woodsman
vertical line The achievement is made by letting go of it.
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 137587
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Reply from ikkyu88
Apr.29.2012
10:46PM EDT 
vertical line The easiest answer is.... Stop obsessing... Let life happen and let the moments find you... If you do not look for Kensho... That's when they truly happen... And it doesn't happen just once... It happens all the time... But it only takes an open minded being to truly see them...
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 137592
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Reply from Dalai Lama
Apr.30.2012
11:04AM EDT 
vertical line

I'm not looking for any kind of long-term guindance as i don't think i need this; however i need *something*, i just don't know what.

Maybe there is someone who could help me?

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

We can share our own experiences, but our path is our own, each unique to us as unique individuals from the Same One.

I had kensho a few times before becoming awakened.  I had been in the Void even before that, I just didnt know where I was.  Kensho is like that, an awakening that you dont see as an awakening because you dont really understand it yet. 

Its a warm-up.  Be glad of it.  It is a wonderful thing to experience.  Each time I experienced it, I was glad to see that the Universe is in good hands, and I went back to my normal senses and forgot about it.  It was like it was new each time because I had set it aside, for my ego to continue unharmed.

it is a glimse of It.  When you fully experience nothingness there will be no doubt left, because there will be nothing left to doubt.  Absolutely nothing, not even nothing.  And from that, anything imaginable.  Where do you go from nowhere?  Anywhere.

vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 137594
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Reply from boymonk
Apr.30.2012
11:58AM EDT 
vertical line Traditionally speaking, people do the dishes after kenso. I'm serious!
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 137599
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Reply from hellbike
May.07.2012
08:23AM EDT 
Email hellbike
vertical line Quote: "

I'm not looking for any kind of long-term guindance as i don't think i need this; however i need *something*, i just don't know what.

Maybe there is someone who could help me?


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


We can share our own experiences, but our path is our own, each unique to us as unique individuals from the Same One.


I had kensho a few times before becoming awakened.  I had been in the Void even before that, I just didnt know where I was.  Kensho is like that, an awakening that you dont see as an awakening because you dont really understand it yet. 


Its a warm-up.  Be glad of it.  It is a wonderful thing to experience.  Each time I experienced it, I was glad to see that the Universe is in good hands, and I went back to my normal senses and forgot about it.  It was like it was new each time because I had set it aside, for my ego to continue unharmed.


it is a glimse of It.  When you fully experience nothingness there will be no doubt left, because there will be nothing left to doubt.  Absolutely nothing, not even nothing.  And from that, anything imaginable.  Where do you go from nowhere?  Anywhere.

"
.........

this was helpful. I'll be gladful if you have anything else to say.
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 137716
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Reply from Joe Chip
May.07.2012
08:40AM EDT 
vertical line Oh please ...



What was the occasion of your enlightenment?
































I forget.
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 137717
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Reply from shayne
May.07.2012
10:29AM EDT 
Email shayne
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how was that helpful?

kensho is glimpses of enlightenment.

not full enlightenment in and of itself.

its not about void.

its about understanding.

vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 137718
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Reply from starduster
May.07.2012
10:46AM EDT 
vertical line Quote: "Quote: "

I'm not looking for any kind of long-term guindance as i don't think i need this; however i need *something*, i just don't know what.

Maybe there is someone who could help me?


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


We can share our own experiences, but our path is our own, each unique to us as unique individuals from the Same One.


I had kensho a few times before becoming awakened.  I had been in the Void even before that, I just didnt know where I was.  Kensho is like that, an awakening that you dont see as an awakening because you dont really understand it yet. 


Its a warm-up.  Be glad of it.  It is a wonderful thing to experience.  Each time I experienced it, I was glad to see that the Universe is in good hands, and I went back to my normal senses and forgot about it.  It was like it was new each time because I had set it aside, for my ego to continue unharmed.


it is a glimse of It.  When you fully experience nothingness there will be no doubt left, because there will be nothing left to doubt.  Absolutely nothing, not even nothing.  And from that, anything imaginable.  Where do you go from nowhere?  Anywhere.

"
.........

this was helpful. I'll be gladful if you have anything else to say."
.........

"
.........

this was helpful. I'll be gladful if you have anything else to say.
"
.........

Be patient and do not try to achieve awakening.  Just enjoy your own meditation for the sake of itself, and awakening will come in its own due time.

Whether this is true due to spontaneous events or intelligent design, the end result is the same.  Let it come in its own due time.  But I know what you mean.  In my own Transcendental Meditations, I would have a great experience and try to do it again to no avail.  Then when I let go I would have another great experience, until finally I stopped trying and they came sooner and sooner.  Now a days I get something just about every day.

Let it take time, maybe more kensho.  These are preparations.  It has been recorded in some cases that when people are not adequately prepared for awakening they do not survive it.  Some choose to die right away afterwards.  My father did that, so I have seen it happen.  Still, I was glad for him.

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Reply from Joe Chip
May.07.2012
10:49AM EDT 
vertical line ^ Religious ego.
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 137720
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Reply from hellbike
May.07.2012
10:59AM EDT 
Email hellbike
vertical line Quote: "Quote: "Quote: "

I'm not looking for any kind of long-term guindance as i don't think i need this; however i need *something*, i just don't know what.

Maybe there is someone who could help me?



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------



We can share our own experiences, but our path is our own, each unique to us as unique individuals from the Same One.



I had kensho a few times before becoming awakened.  I had been in the Void even before that, I just didnt know where I was.  Kensho is like that, an awakening that you dont see as an awakening because you dont really understand it yet. 



Its a warm-up.  Be glad of it.  It is a wonderful thing to experience.  Each time I experienced it, I was glad to see that the Universe is in good hands, and I went back to my normal senses and forgot about it.  It was like it was new each time because I had set it aside, for my ego to continue unharmed.



it is a glimse of It.  When you fully experience nothingness there will be no doubt left, because there will be nothing left to doubt.  Absolutely nothing, not even nothing.  And from that, anything imaginable.  Where do you go from nowhere?  Anywhere.


"
.........

this was helpful. I'll be gladful if you have anything else to say."
.........

"
.........

this was helpful. I'll be gladful if you have anything else to say.
"
.........

Be patient and do not try to achieve awakening.  Just enjoy your own meditation for the sake of itself, and awakening will come in its own due time.


Whether this is true due to spontaneous events or intelligent design, the end result is the same.  Let it come in its own due time.  But I know what you mean.  In my own Transcendental Meditations, I would have a great experience and try to do it again to no avail.  Then when I let go I would have another great experience, until finally I stopped trying and they came sooner and sooner.  Now a days I get something just about every day.


Let it take time, maybe more kensho.  These are preparations.  It has been recorded in some cases that when people are not adequately prepared for awakening they do not survive it.  Some choose to die right away afterwards.  My father did that, so I have seen it happen.  Still, I was glad for him.


"
.........

i have trouble with meditating. It provides fast results, but it's hard for me to start. During meditation I'm able to feel the inner conflict in me very clearly and that's painful.

I have not achieved this by meditation in the first place. It was by instant decision to live in the present. It's a bit complicated for me to explain at this moment, but one could say it's about following "the voice of heart".

I don't know how anyone could help me because i understand that enlightenment is just about the corner, and it's up to me to go into this direction.

I also realize that i cannot achieve enlightenment by trying to achieve it, but once on the right path, the desire vanishes.

I have grabbed my thoughts once again and I'm not sure how correct is what i have wrote.


I'll be glad for any words of wisdom.
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 137722
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Reply from Joe Chip
May.07.2012
11:02AM EDT 
vertical line A provisional imitation of learning for advantage.
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 137723
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Reply from frozenaomi
May.07.2012
11:22AM EDT 
Email frozenaomi
vertical line I've never had any kind of enlightenment experience, but from what I've heard it sounds great, like drugs are supposed to be, or sex is. But therein I think lies a danger. If you spend your life chasing this experience then that chase will become your life and you will miss a terrible amount of living on the way. It's not worth it.


From what I've heard it's like Starduster says it's just something that happens like a sneeze. Maybe some one here can tell you how to throw pepper in front of your nose. But to what end? To get a spiritual high?

I doubt it would mean the sane coming about contrived like that. Spiritual masturbation ratifying nothing more than the simple experience of it.

If it happens it happens if it doesn't it does not. Life can be about the big moments or the small. Most people chase the big moments the next big rush. But life is mostly small moments. If you live for those you live a lot more of the life you seek.

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Reply from hellbike
May.07.2012
11:37AM EDT 
Email hellbike
vertical line Quote: "I've never had any kind of enlightenment experience, but from what I've heard it sounds great, like drugs are supposed to be, or sex is. But therein I think lies a danger. If you spend your life chasing this experience then that chase will become your life and you will miss a terrible amount of living on the way. It's not worth it.


From what I've heard it's like Starduster says it's just something that happens like a sneeze. Maybe some one here can tell you how to throw pepper in front of your nose. But to what end? To get a spiritual high?

I doubt it would mean the sane coming about contrived like that. Spiritual masturbation ratifying nothing more than the simple experience of it.

If it happens it happens if it doesn't it does not. Life can be about the big moments or the small. Most people chase the big moments the next big rush. But life is mostly small moments. If you live for those you live a lot more of the life you seek.

"
.........

the single moment of enlightenment is worth more than eternity in any other mindstate.

But yes, it's not worth to chase it.
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 137726
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Reply from Joe Chip
May.07.2012
11:39AM EDT 
vertical line When enlightenment dawns, you'll make 'em wait.
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 137727
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Reply from Joe Chip
May.07.2012
11:54AM EDT 
vertical line The single moment of enlightenment is an eternity in any other mindstate. Is any other mindstate like EGO? Is it tasteless, odourless, weightless? And yet, once inside, there doesn’t appear to be any way out? Is it like a dark night? Is it like a thought?
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Reply from starduster
May.08.2012
06:44AM EDT 
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Quote: "The single moment of enlightenment is an eternity in any other mindstate. Is any other mindstate like EGO? Is it tasteless, odourless, weightless? And yet, once inside, there doesn’t appear to be any way out? Is it like a dark night? Is it like a thought?"
.........

It is you.

Everything is, from ego to egos damnation, all inclusive.

Psst !!  Its an inside job.

vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 137767
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Reply from Joe Chip
May.08.2012
02:03PM EDT 
vertical line No one to depend on
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 137800
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Reply from starduster
May.09.2012
06:10AM EDT 
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Quote: "No one to depend on "
.........

No one but ones Self.

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Reply from floating_a
May.11.2012
04:35PM EDT 
vertical line Quote: "^ Religious ego."
.........

The mightiest of them all ?

“Having some attainment is the jackal's yelp; having no attainment is the lion's roar.”

Thanks Joe Chip
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 137932
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Reply from Joe Chip
May.11.2012
08:07PM EDT 
vertical line Thank you.
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 137944
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Reply from leoj99
Jul.14.2012
03:34PM EDT 
vertical line How did you know you have kensho. How do you know if you have kensho.
Did an authentic teacher confirmed the kensho?
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 139368
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Reply from starduster
Jul.14.2012
05:26PM EDT 
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Quote: "How did you know you have kensho. How do you know if you have kensho.
Did an authentic teacher confirmed the kensho?
"
.........

If you have to ask,

it was Kensho.

Awakening leaves no doubt,

because there is nothing left to doubt.

Absolutely nothing in existence

but your One Consciousness.

vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 139369
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Reply from starduster
Jul.14.2012
05:28PM EDT 
vertical line Quote: "

Quote: "How did you know you have kensho. How do you know if you have kensho.
Did an authentic teacher confirmed the kensho?
"
.........

If you have to ask,

it was Kensho.

Awakening leaves no doubt,

because there is nothing left to doubt.

Absolutely nothing in existence

but your One Consciousness.

"
.........

"
.........

I said to the Spirit once, in meditation,

*I hope I dont let you down.*

The Spirit answered,

*I only wish that you could.*

vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 139370
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Reply from leoj99
Jul.14.2012
07:36PM EDT 
vertical line Quote: "Quote: "

Quote: "How did you know you have kensho. How do you know if you have kensho.
Did an authentic teacher confirmed the kensho?
"
.........

If you have to ask,

it was Kensho.

Awakening leaves no doubt,

because there is nothing left to doubt.

Absolutely nothing in existence

but your One Consciousness.

"
.........

"
.........

I said to the Spirit once, in meditation,

*I hope I dont let you down.*

The Spirit answered,

*I only wish that you could.*

"
.........

What Spirit?
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 139386
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Reply from leoj99
Jul.14.2012
07:37PM EDT 
vertical line Quote: "Quote: "

Quote: "How did you know you have kensho. How do you know if you have kensho.
Did an authentic teacher confirmed the kensho?
"
.........

If you have to ask,

it was Kensho.

Awakening leaves no doubt,

because there is nothing left to doubt.

Absolutely nothing in existence

but your One Consciousness.

"
.........

"
.........

I said to the Spirit once, in meditation,

*I hope I dont let you down.*

The Spirit answered,

*I only wish that you could.*

"
.........

What Spirit? I think spirits has nothing to do with kensho.
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 139387
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Reply from Joe Chip
Jul.15.2012
05:55AM EDT 
vertical line Water. Everywhere water.
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 139395
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Reply from starduster
Jul.15.2012
06:41AM EDT 
vertical line

Some are swimming,

while others have not a drop to drink.

vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 139406
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Reply from Joe Chip
Jul.15.2012
06:47AM EDT 
vertical line Some are born and some are dying. Some are waving and some are drowning.
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 139408
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Reply from leoj99
Jul.15.2012
07:50PM EDT 
vertical line Quote: "Some are born and some are dying. Some are waving and some are drowning. "
.........

Why is that. Is that Kensho?
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 139425
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Reply from Riverstone
Jul.15.2012
10:45PM EDT 
vertical line "Listen" carefully. I spent 15 years using the one tool which would never work to "get me back", the conceptual mind. And don't say "I know this already." You do not or you would not still be stuck. Do not look back at that experience as a frame of reference, forget about it, do not think about it, do not compare anything to it. You are still "there" but you are blinded by your knowing. Start Over, now. Know nothing. Reread every Zen Master and do not think about it. Don't look for anything extraordinary, it is ordinary. Do what you are doing, sit when you sit, eat when you eat, walk when you walk. That is all. Clouds can obscure the sun but it is still there.
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 139427
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Reply from Avisitor
Jul.16.2012
02:01AM EDT 
Email Avisitor
vertical line What's kensho??
Please don't don't don't answer that.
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 139431
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Reply from leoj99
Jul.16.2012
02:19AM EDT 
vertical line Quote: "What's kensho??
Please don't don't don't answer that.
"
.........

" Kensho is the transformative glimpse of the true nature of all things. It is an experience so crucial in Zen practice that it is sometimes compared to finding an inexhaustible treasure because it reveals the potential that exists in each moment for pure awareness free from the projections of the ego. Among the traditional Zen works are a number of important texts focusing on the profound subtleties of this essential Zen awakening and the methods used in its realization. "


vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 139434
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Reply from Joe Chip
Jul.16.2012
05:08AM EDT 
vertical line I'm listening.  Still nothing.
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 139436
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Reply from Joe Chip
Jul.16.2012
05:36AM EDT 
vertical line All singing, all dancing leaves of unknowing.
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 139444
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Reply from starduster
Jul.16.2012
07:38AM EDT 
vertical line Quote: "Quote: "Quote: "

Quote: "How did you know you have kensho. How do you know if you have kensho.
Did an authentic teacher confirmed the kensho?
"
.........

If you have to ask,

it was Kensho.

Awakening leaves no doubt,

because there is nothing left to doubt.

Absolutely nothing in existence

but your One Consciousness.

"
.........

"
.........

I said to the Spirit once, in meditation,

*I hope I dont let you down.*

The Spirit answered,

*I only wish that you could.*

"
.........

What Spirit? I think spirits has nothing to do with kensho.
"
.........

"
.........

What Spirit? I think spirits has nothing to do with kensho.
"
.........

I call It the Spirit.  It can come to you in any form.  To Moses a burning bush, to Abraham and Noah a voice from the sky.... 

Thats the way I understand It:  There is no one constant for The One.

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Reply from Joe Chip
Jul.16.2012
08:05AM EDT 
vertical line Breathe it . . .
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 139450
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Reply from zbishak
Jul.16.2012
08:18AM EDT 
Email zbishak
vertical line

there is no after satori

and no one to have it

so it could be worn as some sort of badge of achievement

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Reply from Avisitor
Jul.16.2012
10:34PM EDT 
Email Avisitor
vertical line Quote: "

there is no after satori

and no one to have it

so it could be worn as some sort of badge of achievement

"
.........
I have heard that before

Guess one high five deserves another ... hand in the air ... looking around ...
Looking embarrassed ... hand still in the air ....

Okay, I don't get it ... what were we talking about again??
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 139490
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Reply from Woodsman
Jul.16.2012
11:39PM EDT 
Email Woodsman
vertical line Everything  = nothing  - desire to have, have not

don't read this, again...
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 139491
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Reply from starduster
Jul.17.2012
05:56AM EDT 
vertical line Quote: "

there is no after satori

and no one to have it

so it could be worn as some sort of badge of achievement

"
.........

"
.........

In the same vein it could be said there is no before satori either.

*Oz never did give nothin to the Tin Man that he didnt already have*, (America)

Yet one does not become static, as if cast from a mold, after awakening.

You are still the person you were before, and still growing and changing,

along the way of your own path.  Maybe just no longer with any beginning or end in sight.

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Reply from zbishak
Jul.17.2012
07:46AM EDT 
Email zbishak
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hello don,

the timeless state of ones  nature, has neither beginning nor end, how can there be an after?

many experience "kensho" during meditation, extra ordinary experiences, like the body growing so huge that its limits cannot be perceived and one may feel like a tiny entity floating in a unlimited void, some feel like they somersault out of their body and go to strange places, have heard many such stories, and that is just kensho induced by ones will/discipline whilst in meditation.

satori is the actual realization of ones nature, which can lead to full enlightenment,where one has realized ones true nature,

of what account their ego, who they once saw themselves as,what Merit has it gained,

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Reply from leoj99
Jul.17.2012
11:30AM EDT 
vertical line Quote: "

hello don,

the timeless state of ones  nature, has neither beginning nor end, how can there be an after?

many experience "kensho" during meditation, extra ordinary experiences, like the body growing so huge that its limits cannot be perceived and one may feel like a tiny entity floating in a unlimited void, some feel like they somersault out of their body and go to strange places, have heard many such stories, and that is just kensho induced by ones will/discipline whilst in meditation.

satori is the actual realization of ones nature, which can lead to full enlightenment,where one has realized ones true nature,

of what account their ego, who they once saw themselves as,what Merit has it gained,

"
.........

I think this is true. But the real thing is how you changed. On how you see things after kensho. On how you think. I think after kensho you are not thinking anymore.

vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 139501
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Reply from esoteric
Jul.17.2012
12:17PM EDT 
vertical line Quote: "Quote: "

hello don,

the timeless state of ones  nature, has neither beginning nor end, how can there be an after?

many experience "kensho" during meditation, extra ordinary experiences, like the body growing so huge that its limits cannot be perceived and one may feel like a tiny entity floating in a unlimited void, some feel like they somersault out of their body and go to strange places, have heard many such stories, and that is just kensho induced by ones will/discipline whilst in meditation.

satori is the actual realization of ones nature, which can lead to full enlightenment,where one has realized ones true nature,

of what account their ego, who they once saw themselves as,what Merit has it gained,

"
.........

I think this is true. But the real thing is how you changed. On how you see things after kensho. On how you think. I think after kensho you are not thinking anymore.
"
.........

How would you know? You're still thinking. :-P

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Reply from Riverstone
Jul.17.2012
12:51PM EDT 
vertical line Precisely, when you can listen to sound and hear nothing but stillness . Stillness in the world that is moving. There is no leaning toward or away.
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Reply from frozenaomi
Jul.17.2012
12:57PM EDT 
Email frozenaomi
vertical line Quote: "Precisely, when you can listen to sound and hear nothing but stillness . Stillness in the world that is moving. There is no leaning toward or away. "
.........

At that point haven't you deadened yourself to the sound that actually exists?  Aren't you listening only to imagined stillness? 
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Reply from Riverstone
Jul.17.2012
01:01PM EDT 
vertical line That is right on top of it so to speak. The Prajna Paramita describes this, especially in the Heart Sutra. When there is a discernible "I", it can not be experienced. When you return to an "I" perspective your conceptual mind can have a field day describing it.
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Reply from Riverstone
Jul.17.2012
01:03PM EDT 
vertical line (Forgive me I am new here; I should have clicked on quote and reply.)
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Reply from Riverstone
Jul.17.2012
01:14PM EDT 
vertical line Quote: "Quote: "Precisely, when you can listen to sound and hear nothing but stillness . Stillness in the world that is moving. There is no leaning toward or away. "
.........

At that point haven't you deadened yourself to the sound that actually exists?  Aren't you listening only to imagined stillness? 
"
.........

Remember that we are conceptualizing here, we are limited by language. But to answer your question, no it is not a physical silence and stillness. It is not an imagined silence. I have experienced it before but never thought anything of it. Your frame of reference is gone, that is the silence, the stillness.
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Reply from Joe Chip
Jul.17.2012
01:44PM EDT 
vertical line I live in the desert.
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Reply from Riverstone
Jul.17.2012
02:06PM EDT 
vertical line Quote: "Quote: "Quote: "Precisely, when you can listen to sound and hear nothing but stillness . Stillness in the world that is moving. There is no leaning toward or away. "
.........

At that point haven't you deadened yourself to the sound that actually exists?  Aren't you listening only to imagined stillness? 
"
.........

Remember that we are conceptualizing here, we are limited by language. But to answer your question, no it is not a physical silence and stillness. It is not an imagined silence. I have experienced it before but never thought anything of it. Your frame of reference is gone, that is the silence, the stillness.
"
.........

Just to clarify I do not claim to have experienced Kensho. My experience occurred in the waking, walking world with a sense of interconnection to all things which lasted for quite some time. I was not a mediator at the time. My practice was to constantly bring myself to the present moment. I am a novice practitioner of Zen, the descriptions of Zen remind me very strongly of the experience I had and was attached to for so long. However close in description they may be, I had to relinquish thinking I "know" anything. I still allow my conceptual mind to its occasional processing of the whole experience. Yet it is the nature of the linear, logical mind to be incapable of it.
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Reply from Joe Chip
Jul.17.2012
02:21PM EDT 
vertical line Which world do you think you are going to experience kensho in?
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Reply from esoteric
Jul.17.2012
04:56PM EDT 
vertical line Quote: "Which world do you think you are going to experience kensho in?"
.........

How about some desert?
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Reply from esoteric
Jul.17.2012
05:13PM EDT 
vertical line Quote: "Just to clarify I do not claim to have experienced Kensho. My experience occurred in the waking, walking world with a sense of interconnection to all things which lasted for quite some time. I was not a mediator at the time. My practice was to constantly bring myself to the present moment. I am a novice practitioner of Zen.... "
.........

That's awesome. Keep being a novice! It's being an expert that gets you into trouble. I know, because I'm an expert at being an Expert. :-P
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Reply from Joe Chip
Jul.17.2012
05:17PM EDT 
vertical line World's a carcass-eater; desert's a life-eater. More tea?
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Reply from so_teh
Jul.17.2012
05:23PM EDT 
Email so_teh
vertical line Just is letting go letting go letting go...the mind letting go...losing losing losing...lost in AMness...weeping weeping weeping... impermanence. non-self. nirvana. Living living living...today is yours...dying dying dying...rest in peace...[...]
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Reply from esoteric
Jul.17.2012
05:26PM EDT 
vertical line If that's peace, you can have it. I'm just sitting here chatting with people on the internet. :-)
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Reply from Joe Chip
Jul.17.2012
05:28PM EDT 
vertical line Welcome to the Internet - Look, Weep & Live.
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Reply from esoteric
Jul.17.2012
05:36PM EDT 
vertical line Okay, I lied. I'm not actually sitting here, I'm lying here, because my computer is on a bed so I can. And the people aren't actually "on the internet" and neither am I. It's the words on the monitor that get moved through a series of tubes called the internet.

Oh, I could go on trying to describe it all to you, in infinite detail, but it wouldn't ever be completely right because you're not here to see it for yourself, and the description isn't THIS. So...

How was your day?
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Reply from Joe Chip
Jul.17.2012
05:38PM EDT 
vertical line Whoa!
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Reply from esoteric
Jul.17.2012
05:40PM EDT 
vertical line Yeah, I know. I called myself out for being a liar. How cool is that?!
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Reply from Joe Chip
Jul.17.2012
05:47PM EDT 
vertical line Muggy muggy muggy . . . . . . . . .
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Reply from Woodsman
Jul.17.2012
05:49PM EDT 
Email Woodsman
vertical line      rain rain rain rain rain rain rain RAIN RAIN RAIN RAIN RAIN RAIN RAIN RAIN RAIN RAIN RAIN RAIN RAIN RAIN RAIN RAIN rain rain rain rain rain rain rain rain rain rain rain rain.....................................................................................................................................................
:::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
:::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::?


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Reply from Joe Chip
Jul.17.2012
05:50PM EDT 
vertical line Oh m
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Reply from so_teh
Jul.17.2012
05:56PM EDT 
Email so_teh
vertical line .
,
\
'
`
!

Rain Drops
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Reply from Joe Chip
Jul.17.2012
05:58PM EDT 
vertical line yes
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Reply from leoj99
Jul.18.2012
01:47AM EDT 
vertical line I HAVE ACHIEVED KENSHO - WHAT NOW?

That question alone indicates that the kensho is what you think you had. But what now? shows that you are still confused.

Real kensho will give you clarity so how can you ask .. What now?
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Reply from starduster
Jul.18.2012
04:27AM EDT 
vertical line Quote: "

hello don,

the timeless state of ones  nature, has neither beginning nor end, how can there be an after?

many experience "kensho" during meditation, extra ordinary experiences, like the body growing so huge that its limits cannot be perceived and one may feel like a tiny entity floating in a unlimited void, some feel like they somersault out of their body and go to strange places, have heard many such stories, and that is just kensho induced by ones will/discipline whilst in meditation.

satori is the actual realization of ones nature, which can lead to full enlightenment,where one has realized ones true nature,

of what account their ego, who they once saw themselves as,what Merit has it gained,

"
.........

"
.........

I remember being in the Void, as I call It, in the *moment before time*, as you call It.

I was me, but not the me I know as me, or anyone else I have ever met either.  I refer to that as satori or nirvana, awakening, from the dream we call reality.  But not really able to say that that is The Truth or Reality either.

That which is true is not necessarily The Truth; and that which is real is not necessarily Reality.  Such a claim to Universiality would intonate permanence, which may not be the case at all.

I think of that as who I really am, who we all really are, that One Consciousness knowing no other, without beginning or end....  Square One, one might say.  And I keep it in mind as I go about the course of being this being.  But even whilst that may be the core of Things as It is, it may just be the core of Things as It is right now, here and now.

In meditation today, the One that I know as the Spirit said to me, *I made us*. 

That is my understanding of It, as a universal consciousness, as a void in itself, It makes itself too.  And what is that which can be anything?  What is It really?  What is its nature?  What is its nature?  Nothing in particular. 

I think of my experiences in astral travel as my reality, not universal Reality.  Its what I share with the Spirit, which is how the One universal consciousness comes to me, personally.  I believe that is different for everyone.  I dont want to have just one constant reality to share with everyone in the universe. 

Let everyone have their own relationship with the One universal consciousness, as far as Im concerned, because Im not planning to share mine with everyone.

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Reply from starduster
Jul.18.2012
04:33AM EDT 
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I believe that satori, nirvana, or awakening, whatever you want to call it,

is when one reaches the point where they give up the search for Truth,

and proceeds with the understanding that there isnt one. 

Its all true, and none of it is, All at the same time.

There is only what you experience, as your own experience.

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Reply from zbishak
Jul.18.2012
04:52AM EDT 
Email zbishak
vertical line Quote: "Quote: "Quote: "

the timeless state of ones  nature, has neither beginning nor end, how can there be an after?

many experience "kensho" during meditation, extra ordinary experiences, like the body growing so huge that its limits cannot be perceived and one may feel like a tiny entity floating in a unlimited void, some feel like they somersault out of their body and go to strange places, have heard many such stories, and that is just kensho induced by ones will/discipline whilst in meditation.

satori is the actual realization of ones nature, which can lead to full enlightenment,where one has realized ones true nature,

of what account their ego, who they once saw themselves as,what Merit has it gained,

"
.........

I think this is true. But the real thing is how you changed. On how you see things after kensho. On how you think. I think after kensho you are not thinking anymore.
"
.........

How would you know? You're still thinking. :-P

"
.........

How would you know? You're still thinking. :-P

"
.........

reading many stories about thed men of zen,, it would appear there was thinking and  thought, .......just an absence of attachment to the thinker who once sought satori,

what makes you think there is an absence of thought once one experiences satori?

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Reply from zbishak
Jul.18.2012
04:54AM EDT 
Email zbishak
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'old men of zen'

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Reply from zbishak
Jul.18.2012
05:36AM EDT 
Email zbishak
vertical line Quote: "Quote: "
.........

I remember being in the Void, as I call It, in the *moment before time*, as you call It.

I was me, but not the me I know as me, or anyone else I have ever met either.  I refer to that as satori or nirvana, awakening, from the dream we call reality.  But not really able to say that that is The Truth or Reality either.

That which is true is not necessarily The Truth; and that which is real is not necessarily Reality.  Such a claim to Universiality would intonate permanence, which may not be the case at all.

I think of that as who I really am, who we all really are, that One Consciousness knowing no other, without beginning or end....  Square One, one might say.  And I keep it in mind as I go about the course of being this being.  But even whilst that may be the core of Things as It is, it may just be the core of Things as It is right now, here and now.

In meditation today, the One that I know as the Spirit said to me, *I made us*. 

That is my understanding of It, as a universal consciousness, as a void in itself, It makes itself too.  And what is that which can be anything?  What is It really?  What is its nature?  What is its nature?  Nothing in particular. 

I think of my experiences in astral travel as my reality, not universal Reality.  Its what I share with the Spirit, which is how the One universal consciousness comes to me, personally.  I believe that is different for everyone.  I dont want to have just one constant reality to share with everyone in the universe. 

Let everyone have their own relationship with the One universal consciousness, as far as Im concerned, because Im not planning to share mine with everyone.

"
.....after many years of developing the habbit of  attaching to our successes, it stands to reason one would attach to having perceived their true nature.

"
.....after many years of developing the habbit of  attaching to our successes, it stands to reason one would attach to having perceived their true nature.

it would take considerable discipline and effort to be free of such a deep habit ,so satori is just an early step upon the old path.

taming the bull is indeed a task.

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Reply from leoj99
Jul.19.2012
02:04AM EDT 
vertical line ".....after many years of developing the habbit of  attaching to our successes, it stands to reason one would attach to having perceived their true nature.

it would take considerable discipline and effort to be free of such a deep habit ,so satori is just an early step upon the old path.

taming the bull is indeed a task.

"

Its nothing but the habit of thinking that should be stopped.

People are insane because of thinking too much. People are crazy because they are thinking to much.

Thinking of the truth is not it.. That is only what you think. Whatever you think is not it.
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Reply from starduster
Jul.19.2012
10:45AM EDT 
vertical line Quote: "Quote: "Quote: "
.........

I remember being in the Void, as I call It, in the *moment before time*, as you call It.

I was me, but not the me I know as me, or anyone else I have ever met either.  I refer to that as satori or nirvana, awakening, from the dream we call reality.  But not really able to say that that is The Truth or Reality either.

That which is true is not necessarily The Truth; and that which is real is not necessarily Reality.  Such a claim to Universiality would intonate permanence, which may not be the case at all.

I think of that as who I really am, who we all really are, that One Consciousness knowing no other, without beginning or end....  Square One, one might say.  And I keep it in mind as I go about the course of being this being.  But even whilst that may be the core of Things as It is, it may just be the core of Things as It is right now, here and now.

In meditation today, the One that I know as the Spirit said to me, *I made us*. 

That is my understanding of It, as a universal consciousness, as a void in itself, It makes itself too.  And what is that which can be anything?  What is It really?  What is its nature?  What is its nature?  Nothing in particular. 

I think of my experiences in astral travel as my reality, not universal Reality.  Its what I share with the Spirit, which is how the One universal consciousness comes to me, personally.  I believe that is different for everyone.  I dont want to have just one constant reality to share with everyone in the universe. 

Let everyone have their own relationship with the One universal consciousness, as far as Im concerned, because Im not planning to share mine with everyone.

"
.....after many years of developing the habbit of  attaching to our successes, it stands to reason one would attach to having perceived their true nature.

"
.....after many years of developing the habbit of  attaching to our successes, it stands to reason one would attach to having perceived their true nature.

it would take considerable discipline and effort to be free of such a deep habit ,so satori is just an early step upon the old path.

taming the bull is indeed a task.

"
.........

"
.........

Maybe sidestepping the Bull is easier.

Driving home one morning came to a point where traffic had stopped in both directions, leaving a gap in the road of about 100 yds.  Seems a Bull had gotten loose and was on the road.

I was #2 in line on my end, and I knew it would be a while before anyone showed up to round up the Bull, so I decided to try an old motorcycle trick used for pesky dogs.  That is to proceed slowly, and then just when they get to you accelerate and zoom past them.

So I did that.  I went around the car in front of me, slowly in my little Toyota truck, and when the Bull charged I floored it and zoomed away.  Actually it probably wouldnt have worked except the road was wet with morning dew and the Bull slipped when he turned and charged at me.  He missed me by one or two feet, hard to guage in the rear view mirror, but not much anyway. 

Exhilarating !!  I felt like going back and doing it again !!  Toro - Toro !!

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Reply from Chryseis
Jul.21.2012
09:39AM EDT 
vertical line

To experience kensho again, predispose yourself to it.

Refine your tastes, recognise quality, determine what is best to use to do the best job, focus on the activity that will most likely lead to quality results rather than focusing on the desired outcome

if you can't do seated meditation, anything that provides a focus that totally consumes you, for the most part, is of a similar vein

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Reply from Woodsman
Jul.21.2012
09:43AM EDT 
Email Woodsman
vertical line just think of it as being less of what you want and more of what you had lost
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Reply from zenmanstan
Jul.23.2012
09:19PM EDT 
Email zenmanstan
vertical line so live with craving woodsman?
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Reply from leoj99
Jul.24.2012
01:57AM EDT 
vertical line If you decide by yourself that you have kensho that is fictitious.
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Reply from leoj99
Jul.24.2012
02:30AM EDT 
vertical line If you decide by yourself that you have kensho it nothing but an egoistic attitude. 
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Reply from Joe Chip
Jul.24.2012
07:12AM EDT 
vertical line Ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh h h h h h h h h h h h h h h h h h h h yeah?
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Reply from leoj99
Jul.25.2012
02:10AM EDT 
vertical line Yeah.... Kensho should be a life changing event. But is you are still asking...What Now... then I guess nothing happened.
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Reply from Joe Chip
Jul.25.2012
05:46AM EDT 
vertical line I love the nothing, no questions asked.
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Reply from Woodsman
Jul.25.2012
08:53AM EDT 
Email Woodsman
vertical line time stops
eternity begins
truth is lost
all pass the fault line of ills
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Reply from Woodsman
Jul.25.2012
08:54AM EDT 
Email Woodsman
vertical line Quote: "so live with craving woodsman? "
.........

a resurrected crave past desire to have or save
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Reply from boymonk
Jul.25.2012
07:00PM EDT 
vertical line On cold Mountain everyone has man boobs.
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Reply from leoj99
Jul.29.2012
04:16AM EDT 
vertical line You don't need to achieve Kensho. Kensho is an experience.
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Reply from starduster
Jul.29.2012
05:05AM EDT 
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Quote: "You don't need to achieve Kensho. Kensho is an experience. "
.........

It could be that the difference between kensho and satori

is whether or not you think you did it.

But my own recollections of kensho are that I was comforted to know

that the Universe is in good hands, and gratefully returned to normal.

I was in the void many times before I finally came to realize It.

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Reply from Joe Chip
Jul.29.2012
07:10AM EDT 
vertical line Don't worry, all your kensho experiences will pass.
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Reply from leoj99
Jul.29.2012
11:12AM EDT 
vertical line Quote: "

Quote: "You don't need to achieve Kensho. Kensho is an experience. "
.........

It could be that the difference between kensho and satori

is whether or not you think you did it.

But my own recollections of kensho are that I was comforted to know

that the Universe is in good hands, and gratefully returned to normal.

I was in the void many times before I finally came to realize It.

"
.........

I think you don't need to worry about the Universe if it is in good hands or not. Just worry about yourself...LOL
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Reply from starduster
Jul.30.2012
05:14AM EDT 
vertical line Quote: "Quote: "

Quote: "You don't need to achieve Kensho. Kensho is an experience. "
.........

It could be that the difference between kensho and satori

is whether or not you think you did it.

But my own recollections of kensho are that I was comforted to know

that the Universe is in good hands, and gratefully returned to normal.

I was in the void many times before I finally came to realize It.

"
.........

I think you don't need to worry about the Universe if it is in good hands or not. Just worry about yourself...LOL
"
.........

"
.........

I think you don't need to worry about the Universe if it is in good hands or not. Just worry about yourself...LOL
"
.........

If you know that the Universe is in good hands,

then you dont have anything to worry about.

If you know who you really are,

and where you really are,

at least in current terms of Things as It is,

that takes a lot of weight off of your shoulders,

at least abstractly.

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Reply from Joe Chip
Jul.30.2012
07:20AM EDT 
vertical line Otherwise likewise.
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Reply from leoj99
Jul.31.2012
02:07AM EDT 
vertical line If you say that the universe is in good hands, in whose hands?

That is why I said just worry about yourself so you know who you really are and where you really are.

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Reply from starduster
Jul.31.2012
05:05AM EDT 
vertical line

Quote: "If you say that the universe is in good hands, in whose hands?

That is why I said just worry about yourself so you know who you really are and where you really are.

"
.........

Your own hands.

Thats the big secret isnt it ?

The Truth that everyone is seeking, that doesnt really change anything.

I am It and It is me, and It will be as It will be, with or without me.  So what ?

But since I came to realize that Ive been more interested in Its happiness than mine,

because Its happiness is my happiness, ultimately.

I can stop being me, but I cant stop being It.  No one can.

Its not all good, but it is all better than nothing.

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Reply from Joe Chip
Jul.31.2012
06:40AM EDT 
vertical line Kensho masturbation - it's out of my hands. 
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Reply from leoj99
Aug.01.2012
02:43AM EDT 
vertical line Actually kensho is orgasm with the universe..LOL...
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Reply from Joe Chip
Aug.01.2012
05:48AM EDT 
vertical line You are thought itself.
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Reply from floating_a
Aug.01.2012
05:15PM EDT 
vertical line 'I have achieved Kensho' is a misnomer in itself.

Do you understand? Practice furthers, and in fact, is more necessary than ever.

Gassho.
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Reply from LeonBasin
Aug.01.2012
10:33PM EDT 
Email LeonBasin
vertical line Quote: "After KENSHO man get Buddha man boobs.

"
.........

HAHAHAHAH!!
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 140191
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