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→→→→ vertical line TOPIC: WITH EYES WIDE OPEN
vertical line Posted on Jun.11.2012 @ 09:22AM EDT by shayne
seems my apparent psychic ability is a result of paying attention to someone or something and broadining my minds eye to take in more stimuli.

so its akin to extreme concentration then extreme relaxation. or extreme narrow mindedness then a broad mindset.

at least thats the theory.

Go to Latest Reply   Reply to this Topic   Email shayne
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Reply from nibble
Jun.11.2012
04:57PM EDT 
vertical line Just don`t go around "googling" aka staring at people at the local shopping mall like my father did before the last time his mind turned the tipping point of a full blown pychose..
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Reply from shayne
Jun.11.2012
05:40PM EDT 
Email shayne
vertical line Quote: "Just don`t go around "googling" aka staring at people at the local shopping mall like my father did before the last time his mind turned the tipping point of a full blown pychose..

"
.........
oh? sorry to hear that bud. your papa was psychic?
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Reply from frozenaomi
Jun.11.2012
06:19PM EDT 
Email frozenaomi
vertical line If you don't concentrate first does it not work at all or does the concentration just help? Also, do you have to keep up filters to keep your thoughts more or less your own or is more controlled than that where you only scry when you want to?
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Reply from shayne
Jun.11.2012
07:27PM EDT 
Email shayne
vertical line gotta concentrate.

it is that which seeks the answer.

in other words your own mind and being ADEPT at controlling it.

enlightenment seeks enlightenment.

do NOT seek enlightenment outside your own mind.

enlightenment to me IS the discovery of ones own mind.

sorry these thoughts are the basis. gotta learn them first.

anyway......yes you gotta concentrate. and then widen the mind much like going to sleep but only say halfway.

too much and you wont remember anything.

widening the mind goes from a pinpoint to say the size of spotlight.

vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 138728
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Reply from shayne
Jun.11.2012
07:33PM EDT 
Email shayne
vertical line its a controlled action but you have to accept new info.

also to concentrate this much isnt good always.

like a violin strung too tight the cords could break.

strung too loose and it makes a horrible sound.

control control control.

of ones own mind.

fliters? nah. i accept the info.

i just observe.

vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 138729
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Reply from nibble
Jun.11.2012
07:49PM EDT 
vertical line Quote: "Quote: "Just don`t go around "googling" aka staring at people at the local shopping mall like my father did before the last time his mind turned the tipping point of a full blown pychose..

"
.........
oh? sorry to hear that bud. your papa was psychic?
"
.........
Bipolar. Recon myself much more "psychic" than him by estimating his total mental crash  on the calendar some two weeks into the future corresponding to the same weekend as my Iceland trip (that I would be going on no matter what). He did (as usually) totally not agree with my future predictions, and would not kindly take his medication. Coming home from Iceland I had to help my mother getting my father hospitalised before I could unpack or get a shower after the trip. Curiously enough the doctor agreed with my curious suspicion that he just be going and going without sleep until he died without ever collapsing of fatigue/ passing out if left unattended. Anyway, it was a great trip, really recommend Iceland!:)
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Reply from shayne
Jun.11.2012
08:09PM EDT 
Email shayne
vertical line Quote: "Quote: "Quote: "Just don`t go around "googling" aka staring at people at the local shopping mall like my father did before the last time his mind turned the tipping point of a full blown pychose..

"
.........
oh? sorry to hear that bud. your papa was psychic?
"
.........
Bipolar. Recon myself much more "psychic" than him by estimating his total mental crash  on the calendar some two weeks into the future corresponding to the same weekend as my Iceland trip (that I would be going on no matter what). He did (as usually) totally not agree with my future predictions, and would not kindly take his medication. Coming home from Iceland I had to help my mother getting my father hospitalised before I could unpack or get a shower after the trip. Curiously enough the doctor agreed with my curious suspicion that he just be going and going without sleep until he died without ever collapsing of fatigue/ passing out if left unattended. Anyway, it was a great trip, really recommend Iceland!:)
"
.........

oh i see now.

wth is googleing?

yeah i take a pill about twice a week.

maybe less now.

they are not even sure if i have bipolar.

just a sensitive individual.

vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 138732
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Reply from so_teh
Jun.11.2012
11:52PM EDT 
Email so_teh
vertical line I see the minds eye working within. There is a little foresight now and then. It's almost because my posture is off and I confuse my thinking with someone else. Foresight nevertheless but nothing psychic. :]
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Reply from Avisitor
Jun.12.2012
02:59AM EDT 
Email Avisitor
vertical line To me, being physic or not is only something that the minds wants to use to keep the consciousness unaware that it is stuck again ... trapped by the tricks of the mind.
Focus should be on going forward instead of playing parlor tricks. Again, I apologize  for my stupid ramblings. Forgive me please ... for I know not what I said.
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Reply from starduster
Jun.12.2012
05:35AM EDT 
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For me it is spontaneous.  And then it feels completely natural. 

I can control it when it happens, and do without a second thought.   I can make it happen when I really want to, and especially when I need to. 

But I usually dont want to.  I figure it will come naturally on its own when its needed.

Im like Darren Stevens, trying to live a normal life, but witchcraft keeps popping up.  Maybe I should call the Spirit *Samantha*.  A lot of times the *magic* comes from her.

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Reply from starduster
Jun.12.2012
05:44AM EDT 
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Quote: "To me, being physic or not is only something that the minds wants to use to keep the consciousness unaware that it is stuck again ... trapped by the tricks of the mind.
Focus should be on going forward instead of playing parlor tricks. Again, I apologize  for my stupid ramblings. Forgive me please ... for I know not what I said.
"
.........

The first time I realized I could do something others could not was at a very early age.

I was playing on the floor with my toys and a man and woman came to the door.  I didnt know what they were saying, but I could see clearly that they were lying to my father, and I could see clearly that he was believing them.  I wanted to say something to warn him, but I didnt know how to talk yet.

I thought everyone could do what I could do until then.  After I learned to talk I decided not to say anything about it.  I kept it to myself, and used it for my own purposes. 

My mother and brother didnt know I could do that kind of thing until she was on her deathbed and I figured it didnt need to be a secret anymore.  Then I showed them some stuff that rocked their socks off.

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Reply from starduster
Jun.12.2012
08:03AM EDT 
vertical line Quote: "

For me it is spontaneous.  And then it feels completely natural. 

I can control it when it happens, and do without a second thought.   I can make it happen when I really want to, and especially when I need to. 

But I usually dont want to.  I figure it will come naturally on its own when its needed.

Im like Darren Stevens, trying to live a normal life, but witchcraft keeps popping up.  Maybe I should call the Spirit *Samantha*.  A lot of times the *magic* comes from her.

"
.........

"
.........

What was I thinking ?  The magic always comes from the Spirit !!

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Reply from Woodsman
Jun.12.2012
01:56PM EDT 
Email Woodsman
vertical line The ways of spirits are rejected by most of the world, of humans.

Once your eyes are opened by spirit as a wake up call, it is visible everywhere, as words are nonessential for the undoing of delusion. Each sound opens the eye, in silent listening. No other audience is essential for this oneness. Always be here now, free of rejection.
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Reply from shayne
Jun.12.2012
06:12PM EDT 
Email shayne
vertical line Quote: "To me, being physic or not is only something that the minds wants to use to keep the consciousness unaware that it is stuck again ... trapped by the tricks of the mind.
Focus should be on going forward instead of playing parlor tricks. Again, I apologize  for my stupid ramblings. Forgive me please ... for I know not what I said.
"
.........

it is NOT a prerequiste.

but its NOT like you say either.

i just use my mind.

period.

no parlor tricks here.

no tricks.

no fake magic.

it is.

if anything the ability to do so can make one highly confused. or one could lose their mind easily. actually this ability bothered me for years. its WHY i ended up in a pyshc ward years ago.

but heres the ticket.

i proved it right here on this forum.

THAT life is MORE then just this mere physical organism.

and i ACCEPT it now. finally.

this is no game im playing.

DONT take a negative view.

see the positive in it.

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Reply from shayne
Jun.12.2012
06:16PM EDT 
Email shayne
vertical line furthermore siddhiahartha used his mind as well to see past present and future events.

would you diss him?

hmmmm?

gassho.
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 138747
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Reply from Avisitor
Jun.12.2012
09:49PM EDT 
Email Avisitor
vertical line Quote: "furthermore siddhiahartha used his mind as well to see past present and future events.

would you diss him?

hmmmm?

gassho.
"
.........

Again I apologize for my questioning nature and offense stance.
I know that I am brutish at times and come across as harsh when I don't understand things.
But, if Siddhartha stood in front of me and started guessing my weight or telling fortunes then I would be truly disappointed and maybe slap him.

Yeah, I'm not as far or as progressive as some here. I sometimes feel like I am just the 500 pound monkey in the room. I thank you for your patience.
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Reply from shayne
Jun.12.2012
10:39PM EDT 
Email shayne
vertical line Quote: "Quote: "furthermore siddhiahartha used his mind as well to see past present and future events.

would you diss him?

hmmmm?

gassho.
"
.........

Again I apologize for my questioning nature and offense stance.
I know that I am brutish at times and come across as harsh when I don't understand things.
But, if Siddhartha stood in front of me and started guessing my weight or telling fortunes then I would be truly disappointed and maybe slap him.

Yeah, I'm not as far or as progressive as some here. I sometimes feel like I am just the 500 pound monkey in the room. I thank you for your patience.
"
.........

hmmm.

naomi is standing in front of me?
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 138752
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Reply from frozenaomi
Jun.13.2012
12:58AM EDT 
Email frozenaomi
vertical line Quote: "Quote: "Quote: "furthermore siddhiahartha used his mind as well to see past present and future events.

would you diss him?

hmmmm?

gassho.
"
.........

Again I apologize for my questioning nature and offense stance.
I know that I am brutish at times and come across as harsh when I don't understand things.
But, if Siddhartha stood in front of me and started guessing my weight or telling fortunes then I would be truly disappointed and maybe slap him.

Why? Why should you expect him to do or not do anything? He is human after all and humans are liable to do almost anything, most frequently something you would not expect. But I'm interested in your response. In the hostility in it. You go straight to disappointed, so you have some expectation for the Buddha (and others?) to live up to. Would you be curious? About the nature and skill of the guesses and fortunes sure, but also about why he was leveling them? And then the hostility rises to striking him? I know corporeal punishment is big in Asiatic monastic Buddhism but I have never understood why. So now your hand hurts andvthe face hurts but has there been any deeper communication?

I think you should look into this in you. I mean no offense it's just sometimes easier to see from the outside. But things will be...are...what they are. Not what you expect them to be.



Yeah, I'm not as far or as progressive as some here. I sometimes feel like I am just the 500 pound monkey in the room. I thank you for your patience.
"
.........

hmmm.

naomi is standing in front of me?
"
.........

I'm not sure what you mean Starlight. In the context of what Avisitor said about standing before the Buddha and slapping him, well, I have no desire to slap you. But you already know that so I'm afraid I don't follow. Sorry for being dense.

I was...caught off guard. Which is why I went quiet, I guess. I could have handled this better. I'm sorry. But I was never angry.

I'm still the coco-nut?
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Reply from Avisitor
Jun.13.2012
02:03AM EDT 
Email Avisitor
vertical line Quote: "Why? Why should you expect him to do or not do anything? He is human after all and humans are liable to do almost anything, most frequently something you would not expect. But I'm interested in your response. In the hostility in it. You go straight to disappointed, so you have some expectation for the Buddha (and others?) to live up to. Would you be curious? About the nature and skill of the guesses and fortunes sure, but also about why he was leveling them? And then the hostility rises to striking him? I know corporeal punishment is big in Asiatic monastic Buddhism but I have never understood why. So now your hand hurts andvthe face hurts but has there been any deeper communication?

I think you should look into this in you. I mean no offense it's just sometimes easier to see from the outside. But things will be...are...what they are. Not what you expect them to be.
"
.........

When someone in front of you becomes hysterical and loses ones sense of reality, a simple way to bring one back to their senses would be to slap them. That is what I meant by that. It is not to go into violence .. but a therapeutic action. I am not disappointed into action. Nor am I driven into action by trying to punish. So, looking from the outside doesn't always bring clarity with it ... only another view point. The action may appear to be violence but the intent is purely kindheartedly good. (Yes, I know the road to hell is paved with good intentions)  But, sometimes medicine is a very bitter pill to take.

As I said, I get quite contentious when I don't understand. That is my nature. And, I apologize for being gruff and harsh. When something comes too easy, its true value is sometimes missed. So, I try hard to learn my lessons. I just get it wrong some of the time.
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Reply from shayne
Jun.13.2012
09:24AM EDT 
Email shayne
vertical line Quote: "Quote: "Quote: "Quote: "furthermore siddhiahartha used his mind as well to see past present and future events.

would you diss him?

hmmmm?

gassho.
"
.........

Again I apologize for my questioning nature and offense stance.
I know that I am brutish at times and come across as harsh when I don't understand things.
But, if Siddhartha stood in front of me and started guessing my weight or telling fortunes then I would be truly disappointed and maybe slap him.

Why? Why should you expect him to do or not do anything? He is human after all and humans are liable to do almost anything, most frequently something you would not expect. But I'm interested in your response. In the hostility in it. You go straight to disappointed, so you have some expectation for the Buddha (and others?) to live up to. Would you be curious? About the nature and skill of the guesses and fortunes sure, but also about why he was leveling them? And then the hostility rises to striking him? I know corporeal punishment is big in Asiatic monastic Buddhism but I have never understood why. So now your hand hurts andvthe face hurts but has there been any deeper communication?

I think you should look into this in you. I mean no offense it's just sometimes easier to see from the outside. But things will be...are...what they are. Not what you expect them to be.



Yeah, I'm not as far or as progressive as some here. I sometimes feel like I am just the 500 pound monkey in the room. I thank you for your patience.
"
.........

hmmm.

naomi is standing in front of me?
"
.........

I'm not sure what you mean Starlight. In the context of what Avisitor said about standing before the Buddha and slapping him, well, I have no desire to slap you. But you already know that so I'm afraid I don't follow. Sorry for being dense.

I was...caught off guard. Which is why I went quiet, I guess. I could have handled this better. I'm sorry. But I was never angry.

I'm still the coco-nut?
"
.........

shayne.
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Reply from shayne
Jun.13.2012
10:44AM EDT 
Email shayne
vertical line all of you are coconuts. im surrounded by them. haha.
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Reply from frozenaomi
Jun.13.2012
10:45AM EDT 
Email frozenaomi
vertical line =^.^=
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Reply from frozenaomi
Jun.13.2012
10:46AM EDT 
Email frozenaomi
vertical line Just wanted to see you laugh.
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 138772
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Reply from frozenaomi
Jun.13.2012
10:59AM EDT 
Email frozenaomi
vertical line Quote: "Quote: "Why? Why should you expect him to do or not do anything? He is human after all and humans are liable to do almost anything, most frequently something you would not expect. But I'm interested in your response. In the hostility in it. You go straight to disappointed, so you have some expectation for the Buddha (and others?) to live up to. Would you be curious? About the nature and skill of the guesses and fortunes sure, but also about why he was leveling them? And then the hostility rises to striking him? I know corporeal punishment is big in Asiatic monastic Buddhism but I have never understood why. So now your hand hurts andvthe face hurts but has there been any deeper communication?

I think you should look into this in you. I mean no offense it's just sometimes easier to see from the outside. But things will be...are...what they are. Not what you expect them to be.
"
.........

When someone in front of you becomes hysterical and loses ones sense of reality, a simple way to bring one back to their senses would be to slap them. That is what I meant by that. It is not to go into violence .. but a therapeutic action. I am not disappointed into action. Nor am I driven into action by trying to punish. So, looking from the outside doesn't always bring clarity with it ... only another view point. The action may appear to be violence but the intent is purely kindheartedly good. (Yes, I know the road to hell is paved with good intentions)  But, sometimes medicine is a very bitter pill to take.

As I said, I get quite contentious when I don't understand. That is my nature. And, I apologize for being gruff and harsh. When something comes too easy, its true value is sometimes missed. So, I try hard to learn my lessons. I just get it wrong some of the time.
"
.........

I do not believe I could bring myself to slap someone even then. But you are right all I can see is the language you use. You are not "disappointed into action" but you would be disappointed. You would not punish but encountering what you do not understand makes you contentious. What is a contest but using one's physical or mental might to overcome another? What is punishment but using one's physical force, or the threat there of to overcome the will of another? The line between punishment and contest is hair thin and fuzzy.

Still, like you said an outsiders perspective is not clearer, merely different. I should not have said otherwise, I apologize. I'm sure I'm way off base too. Sorry, I guess that makes all of this pretty meaningless.
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Reply from shayne
Jun.13.2012
11:05AM EDT 
Email shayne
vertical line Quote: "Just wanted to see you laugh."
.........
awww sweety. stay sweet and real naomi.

your a smart kid.

too smart.

youll be a wise one thats for sure.

as well.

you got me beat in the intelligence factor.

hey dont get sick again or me and god are gonna have it out for it happening. haha.

ok goodnight good little person.
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Reply from starduster
Jun.13.2012
11:11AM EDT 
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Quote: "Quote: "furthermore siddhiahartha used his mind as well to see past present and future events.

would you diss him?

hmmmm?

gassho.
"
.........

Again I apologize for my questioning nature and offense stance.
I know that I am brutish at times and come across as harsh when I don't understand things.
But, if Siddhartha stood in front of me and started guessing my weight or telling fortunes then I would be truly disappointed and maybe slap him.

Yeah, I'm not as far or as progressive as some here. I sometimes feel like I am just the 500 pound monkey in the room. I thank you for your patience.
"
.........

Seeing is believing.

The more you have seen, or are seeing, the more you believe.

But that is natural, to question the unfamiliar.

I work in a haunted Inn.  Lots of people have seen ghosts here, including me.  If you have not ever seen a ghost, then their existence is speculative for you, maybe, maybe not, at best.  What else could be expected.  But if you have seen a ghost, its very real for you.

Seeing is believing.  Ive seen ghosts move things, and Ive seen ghosts move through things.  And Ive had a visionary experience in which I was a ghost first-hand.  So what should I believe ?  My own experiences, or someone elses speculation ?

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Reply from Avisitor
Jun.13.2012
11:43AM EDT 
Email Avisitor
vertical line Quote: "I do not believe I could bring myself to slap someone even then. But you are right all I can see is the language you use. You are not "disappointed into action" but you would be disappointed. You would not punish but encountering what you do not understand makes you contentious. What is a contest but using one's physical or mental might to overcome another? What is punishment but using one's physical force, or the threat there of to overcome the will of another? The line between punishment and contest is hair thin and fuzzy.

Still, like you said an outsiders perspective is not clearer, merely different. I should not have said otherwise, I apologize. I'm sure I'm way off base too. Sorry, I guess that makes all of this pretty meaningless.
"
.........

I'm not here to offend but to learn. So, I often probe with a baseball bat or hockey stick rather than use a Q-tip or rubber gloves or even a soft brush. I have apologized before and I do so again to anyone I offend. Take it with a grain of salt. I will push and push hard at times.
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Reply from frozenaomi
Jun.13.2012
01:19PM EDT 
Email frozenaomi
vertical line

I'm not here to offend but to learn. So, I often probe with a baseball bat or hockey stick rather than use a Q-tip or rubber gloves or even a soft brush. I have apologized before and I do so again to anyone I offend. Take it with a grain of salt. I will push and push hard at times.
"
.........

I understand.  I do wish you luck with that.  I see things a little differently is all.  I find that gates swing open for gentle words that would otherwise stand impervious to the sticks and bats broken against them. 
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Reply from Avisitor
Jun.13.2012
02:25PM EDT 
Email Avisitor
vertical line Quote: "

I'm not here to offend but to learn. So, I often probe with a baseball bat or hockey stick rather than use a Q-tip or rubber gloves or even a soft brush. I have apologized before and I do so again to anyone I offend. Take it with a grain of salt. I will push and push hard at times.
"
.........

I understand.  I do wish you luck with that.  I see things a little differently is all.  I find that gates swing open for gentle words that would otherwise stand impervious to the sticks and bats broken against them. 
"
.........

You are kind and nice by nature. I do not fault you for not being like me.
Please do not fault me for not being like you.

When students sits for long periods of time, the master will take a stick and tap the student on the shoulders. Sometimes it is the strength of the tap of the stick .. sometimes it is the sound of the stick that brings the student back to work harder.
Gentle words are for the ego. Who here wants to admit to have their egos stroked??

I have been too long without a teacher. Sorry, I find the ocean cold this morning.
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Reply from frozenaomi
Jun.13.2012
03:25PM EDT 
Email frozenaomi
vertical line Quote: "Quote: "

I'm not here to offend but to learn. So, I often probe with a baseball bat or hockey stick rather than use a Q-tip or rubber gloves or even a soft brush. I have apologized before and I do so again to anyone I offend. Take it with a grain of salt. I will push and push hard at times.
"
.........

I understand.  I do wish you luck with that.  I see things a little differently is all.  I find that gates swing open for gentle words that would otherwise stand impervious to the sticks and bats broken against them. 
"
.........

You are kind and nice by nature. I do not fault you for not being like me.
Please do not fault me for not being like you.

When students sits for long periods of time, the master will take a stick and tap the student on the shoulders. Sometimes it is the strength of the tap of the stick .. sometimes it is the sound of the stick that brings the student back to work harder.
Gentle words are for the ego. Who here wants to admit to have their egos stroked??

I have been too long without a teacher. Sorry, I find the ocean cold this morning.
"
.........

I do not fault you. I never did. I simply disagree, nothing more. And I consider what you say. I was serious when I was talking about integrating your notion of acausal karma into my paradigm, and I am seriously trying to imagine a scenario where striking someone would be therapeutic.

I think there is a difference between kindness and condescension. Condescension simply strokes the ego. It is hollow and does not touch the speaker. It is communication designed to dismiss. Kindness however does not always stroke the ego. You can disagree in kindness. You can even restrain in kindness. Communicating in kindness is communicating with compassion it is finding the point of similarity and talking directly to that person. It is communication designed to affirm even when it does not confirm.

Communicating in hostility is much the same. You can disagree and restrain with hostility and hostility will also allow you to strike back. Hostility also breeds an odd sort of compassion, in this case the speaker forces a similarity onto the listener, commonly this is called "obedience". But communicating with hostility only communicates with the ego. Either you communicate with the ego of the other while they resist your grafting, or else after you have broken them you communicate with the portion of your own ego you have forced inside of them.

In short I think truth can only be found in compassion and true compassion can only be found in kindness.

But that is my take on it. I find no fault in your disagreeing. More, I believe disagreement is a good thing. If we all agreed there would nothing more to learn. Besides how boring would it be if we all agreed?
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Reply from Avisitor
Jun.13.2012
03:59PM EDT 
Email Avisitor
vertical line Quote: "I do not fault you. I never did. I simply disagree, nothing more. And I consider what you say. I was serious when I was talking about integrating your notion of acausal karma into my paradigm, and I am seriously trying to imagine a scenario where striking someone would be therapeutic.

I think there is a difference between kindness and condescension. Condescension simply strokes the ego. It is hollow and does not touch the speaker. It is communication designed to dismiss. Kindness however does not always stroke the ego. You can disagree in kindness. You can even restrain in kindness. Communicating in kindness is communicating with compassion it is finding the point of similarity and talking directly to that person. It is communication designed to affirm even when it does not confirm.

Communicating in hostility is much the same. You can disagree and restrain with hostility and hostility will also allow you to strike back. Hostility also breeds an odd sort of compassion, in this case the speaker forces a similarity onto the listener, commonly this is called "obedience". But communicating with hostility only communicates with the ego. Either you communicate with the ego of the other while they resist your grafting, or else after you have broken them you communicate with the portion of your own ego you have forced inside of them.

In short I think truth can only be found in compassion and true compassion can only be found in kindness.

But that is my take on it. I find no fault in your disagreeing. More, I believe disagreement is a good thing. If we all agreed there would nothing more to learn. Besides how boring would it be if we all agreed?
"
.........

You are very bright. And, You are very young.
Wish you the best
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Reply from Avisitor
Jun.13.2012
10:15PM EDT 
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vertical line To show that we don't always see what we believe we see ...
Check this illusion ...

http://www.doctorhugo.org/illusions/illusion2.html
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Reply from starduster
Jun.14.2012
04:32AM EDT 
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I was once very young and very bright.  Still, people treated me more like I was very young than very bright, even when adopting and using my ideas, for which they often took credit.

Maybe I grew more defensive with age as a result of that.  More aloof or reclusive.  I dont know, but I gradually stopped putting myself out there for general purposes, and began putting my own interests first.

If you are bright it should make your life easier.  If not, then you might want to reconsider some options.  I know I did, and Ive been much happier, not trying to be all things to all people, but just true to myself, actually my Self.

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Reply from frozenaomi
Jun.14.2012
12:30PM EDT 
Email frozenaomi
vertical line Quote: "

I was once very young and very bright.  Still, people treated me more like I was very young than very bright, even when adopting and using my ideas, for which they often took credit.



Eyup, I know the feeling. Although no one ever adopts my ideas. I think i would be ecstatic if they did not resentful over not being credited.

Maybe I grew more defensive with age as a result of that.  More aloof or reclusive.  I dont know, but I gradually stopped putting myself out there for general purposes, and began putting my own interests first.



Maybe. I actually sort of have a hard time understanding this. Not semantically, I know what you mean, I just can't form an emotional connection to the words. I just don't think I'm very important. I feel more valuable, and happier, when I am trying to help others.

If you are bright it should make your life easier.  If not, then you might want to reconsider some options.  I know I did, and I've been much happier, not trying to be all things to all people, but just true to myself, actually my Self.

"
.........

I dunno. I think being smart is like being attractive or athletic. You can do somethings to inflate them, education, cosmetics, train, but ultimately they are physical traits and you are always working against a baseline. I think we put too much value on these things. People are people whatever their physical attributions.
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Reply from shayne
Jun.14.2012
05:38PM EDT 
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vertical line you dont think your very important naomi?

to whom?

by whom?

and for what reason?
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Reply from Avisitor
Jun.14.2012
08:16PM EDT 
Email Avisitor
vertical line Quote: "I dunno. I think being smart is like being attractive or athletic. You can do somethings to inflate them, education, cosmetics, train, but ultimately they are physical traits and you are always working against a baseline. I think we put too much value on these things. People are people whatever their physical attributions. "
.........

Then what should we put too much value on??
People are people .. some tall, some small, some smart, some not
I know there are people who want everything equal for everyone
Unfortunately, we aren't all the same
and fortunately, we are all different

Sometimes one can't over look some physical attributes
That's life ... no one said it would be fair.
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Reply from frozenaomi
Jun.14.2012
11:20PM EDT 
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vertical line Quote: "you don't think your very important naomi?

**shrug**  Who am I alone in myself?

to whom?

by whom?

and for what reason?

Right.  So I wrote down the honest answer.  It wasn't until I was done that I realized you'd hate it (its technical).  So, here is my alternate answer.  I'm just me.  There are many others.  The many outweigh the few. 

The last question is the easiest to answer (yes this is a blatant cop out since I can't think of how to answer the middle two).  One in seven and a half billion.  If I help me I've helped one.  If I help others I've helped many.  Its simply (ax+a)/(total population).  As a value of 1 I raise the line off the origin sure, but its a static increase and nearly infinitely small.  ax however can increase at the rate of people helped over time elapsed.  It only takes helping 10 people for my relative influence to drop by an order of magnitude and 100 for it to grow insignificant.  And if people pay it forward then x takes on exponential growth.  If the people I helped was 100 and they help 100 then that's 10,000 and then 1,000,000 and it finally shows up as a visible blip in a strictly order of magnitude biased normally proportioned graph on a 1080p screen (by 1 pixel if you only look at quadrant I).  That probably won't happen, but it certainly won't if I don't try.
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Reply from shayne
Jun.14.2012
11:29PM EDT 
Email shayne
vertical line Quote: "Quote: "you don't think your very important naomi?

**shrug**  Who am I alone in myself?

to whom?

by whom?

and for what reason?

Right.  So I wrote down the honest answer.  It wasn't until I was done that I realized you'd hate it (its technical).  So, here is my alternate answer.  I'm just me.  There are many others.  The many outweigh the few. 

The last question is the easiest to answer (yes this is a blatant cop out since I can't think of how to answer the middle two).  One in seven and a half billion.  If I help me I've
helped one.  If I help others I've helped many.  Its simply (ax+a)/(total population).  As a
value of 1 I raise the line off the origin sure, but its a static
increase and nearly infinitely small.  ax however can increase at the rate of people helped over
time elapsed.  It only takes helping 10 people for my relative influence
to drop by an order of magnitude and 100 for it to grow insignificant.  And if people pay it forward then x takes on exponential growth.  If the people I helped was 100 and they help 100 then that's 10,000 and then 1,000,000 and it finally shows up as a visible blip in a strictly order of magnitude biased normally proportioned graph on a 1080p screen (by 1 pixel if you only look at quadrant I).  That probably won't happen, but it certainly won't if I don't try.

"
.........

huh. i didnt even bother to read it.

you a robot dear?

yep i hate it.

beep beep.

everyone counts.

not one single person is unimportant.

not one child.

not one soul.

your a little too young to be thinking in these terms.

and if not young i still dont like it.

get over your bad self.
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Reply from shayne
Jun.14.2012
11:31PM EDT 
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vertical line now you got me mad.

haha.
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Reply from shayne
Jun.14.2012
11:37PM EDT 
Email shayne
vertical line none above. none below.
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Reply from frozenaomi
Jun.14.2012
11:45PM EDT 
Email frozenaomi
vertical line Quote: "Quote: "I dunno. I think being smart is like being attractive or athletic. You can do somethings to inflate them, education, cosmetics, train, but ultimately they are physical traits and you are always working against a baseline. I think we put too much value on these things. People are people whatever their physical attributions. "
.........

Then what should we put too much value on??

On nothing.  We should put too much value on nothing.  We should value everything equally.

People are people .. some tall, some small, some smart, some not
I know there are people who want everything equal for everyone

That is categorically different, very nearly the antithesis of what I am saying.  I am saying that humanity is a gem of nearly infinite facets each of them perfect in its own way.  What this says is that humanity is a stone, all the same and lumped together.  It is the individualities and the idiosyncrasies that make diamonds shine. 

Make everything equal for everyone?  I cannot imagine a bigger catastrophe.  We would cease to be human and all hope would be gone. 

I'm...reasonably smart.  I like puzzles and I memorize things easily.  My best friend can run a mile in five minutes.  I can't run a mile period.  Yet while she gets accolades for her athletic skill, I am not really penalized for not being able to keep up save for coach rolling his eyes at me.  However, when she struggles to make the grades she is heavily criticized. 

I think her skills should be credited equally with mine.  Higher since I am not the smartest but she is the fastest.  I don't want her skill to be the same as mine.  I don't want to be her, and I definitely don't want her to be me.  I just want there to be parity in dissonance. 

(unfortunately scratch this entirely), fortunately we aren't all the same
and fortunately, we are all different

Sometimes one can't over look some physical attributes
That's life ... no one said it would be fair.

Life is what we make of it.  It's all us, so its all on us.  If we want this world to get better we have to make it better.  No one will do it for us. 
"
.........


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Reply from frozenaomi
Jun.14.2012
11:50PM EDT 
Email frozenaomi
vertical line Quote: "none above. none below.
"
.........

Everyone above.  Its putting ourselves first that got the world into the mess its in now in the first place.  If we, everyone, cease to focus on the self and focus one everyone else, then at the same time we get a portion of everyone's focus.  We become vested in helping each other.  In working together and growing as a whole instead of each of us clawing our way to the top kicking at those beneath in fear that they will out ascend us. 
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Reply from shayne
Jun.14.2012
11:52PM EDT 
Email shayne
vertical line the MIND is the basis of reality.

the human soul is the BASIS of reality.

we color the flowers pretty.

the outside reality is bleak and barren and cold.

it feels nothing.

it dont love.

it dont get mad.

WE ARE GODS!
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Reply from frozenaomi
Jun.14.2012
11:53PM EDT 
Email frozenaomi
vertical line **sigh**  I'm sorry.  You're right.  Its stupid.  Just a notion I seized on.  Meaningless.  I retract everything and apologize.  Can we just forget about it?
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Reply from shayne
Jun.14.2012
11:56PM EDT 
Email shayne
vertical line to err is human.

forgiveness is divine.

of course sweet person.

but no more with the low self esteem.

humble/pride.

take the middle ground.

always.
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Reply from frozenaomi
Jun.15.2012
12:11AM EDT 
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vertical line Thanks.  You're right.  Balance in everything everything in balance.  I'll work on remembering that.
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Reply from Avisitor
Jun.15.2012
03:17AM EDT 
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vertical line Quote: "**sigh**  I'm sorry.  You're right.  Its stupid.  Just a notion I seized on.  Meaningless.  I retract everything and apologize.  Can we just forget about it? "
.........

Why?
I don't believe you to be wrong or offensive or anything ..
You have a thought and you expressed it
Sometimes there are things that bug the heck out of us for one reason or another
Got to clear the air .. so to speak.

That is the way I am. Offensive at times ... but my meaning is to argue to arrive at an answer.
Easy answers are easily forgotten. It is the hard fought ones that last in the mind.
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Reply from shayne
Jul.16.2012
05:30PM EDT 
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vertical line another trick of the trade of reading minds is paying attention to what their attention is paying attention too.

hahahhahaha.

make sense?

hahahahaha.
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Reply from shayne
Jul.16.2012
05:39PM EDT 
Email shayne
vertical line Quote: "Quote: "**sigh**  I'm sorry.  You're right.  Its stupid.  Just a notion I seized on.  Meaningless.  I retract everything and apologize.  Can we just forget about it?

"
.........

Why?
I don't believe you to be wrong or offensive or anything ..
You have a thought and you expressed it
Sometimes there are things that bug the heck out of us for one reason or another
Got to clear the air .. so to speak.

That is the way I am. Offensive at times ... but my meaning is to argue to arrive at an answer.
Easy answers are easily forgotten. It is the hard fought ones that last in the mind.
"
.........

wrong thinking pattern. wrong. she seen it. now you see it.
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Reply from Joe Chip
Jul.16.2012
07:39PM EDT 
vertical line Now you don't.
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Reply from Woodsman
Jul.16.2012
07:49PM EDT 
Email Woodsman
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Reply from starduster
Jul.17.2012
06:21AM EDT 
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Quote: "Quote: "Quote: "you don't think your very important naomi?

**shrug**  Who am I alone in myself?

to whom?

by whom?

and for what reason?

Right.  So I wrote down the honest answer.  It wasn't until I was done that I realized you'd hate it (its technical).  So, here is my alternate answer.  I'm just me.  There are many others.  The many outweigh the few. 

The last question is the easiest to answer (yes this is a blatant cop out since I can't think of how to answer the middle two).  One in seven and a half billion.  If I help me I've
helped one.  If I help others I've helped many.  Its simply (ax+a)/(total population).  As a
value of 1 I raise the line off the origin sure, but its a static
increase and nearly infinitely small.  ax however can increase at the rate of people helped over
time elapsed.  It only takes helping 10 people for my relative influence
to drop by an order of magnitude and 100 for it to grow insignificant.  And if people pay it forward then x takes on exponential growth.  If the people I helped was 100 and they help 100 then that's 10,000 and then 1,000,000 and it finally shows up as a visible blip in a strictly order of magnitude biased normally proportioned graph on a 1080p screen (by 1 pixel if you only look at quadrant I).  That probably won't happen, but it certainly won't if I don't try.

"
.........

huh. i didnt even bother to read it.

you a robot dear?

yep i hate it.

beep beep.

everyone counts.

not one single person is unimportant.

not one child.

not one soul.

your a little too young to be thinking in these terms.

and if not young i still dont like it.

get over your bad self.
"
.........

Aside from being just plain *blunt*,

as a general rule you have to be honest with yourself before you can be honest with others.  Along the same lines as that you have to love yourself before you can love others.  Or, charity begins at home, etc etc.

We are all important, just as we are all equally unimportant.  The two ideas go hand in hand. 

*Needing nothing, wanting nothing, being nothing* is still my foremost precept.  Wanting leads to needing, and needing leads to suffering.  If you dont want anything then you dont need anything.

We are all *alone in ourselves*.  It goes with the territory.  All One = Alone.  Each of us is essentially alone in his or her own universe.  We see, hear, smell, taste, touch, and may even tap into other senses, but these *inputs* are interpreted by a brain that can do anything it wishes with the data.  As a general rule, although our interpretations are unique to ourselves, we maintain enough of an *intersection* with the rest of mankind so as not to endanger our safety or sanity.

Live and let live.  Be free and let others be free.  Interpret your sensory inputs as you wish, and if others have a different interpretation dont judge, just try to understand.

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Reply from starduster
Jul.17.2012
06:34AM EDT 
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The many outweigh the few. (Naomi)

Also Spock, *The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few*. (famous last words)

...............................................................................

Nothing wrong with the *Utilitarian* philosophy.  Certainly the many will buy it every time, as long as you are the one making the sacrifice.  If you are asking someone else to do it, then not so much.

Sometimes it hard to resist,

but I generally prefer to just go my own way and do my own thing,

because I am a child of the 60s and 70s I suppose.

If there is a philosophy that I know of that applies under all or almost all circumstances, it would be Zen *nothingness*.

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Reply from leoj99
Jul.17.2012
11:21AM EDT 
vertical line Quote: "

The many outweigh the few. (Naomi)

Also Spock, *The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few*. (famous last words)

...............................................................................

Nothing wrong with the *Utilitarian* philosophy.  Certainly the many will buy it every time, as long as you are the one making the sacrifice.  If you are asking someone else to do it, then not so much.

Sometimes it hard to resist,

but I generally prefer to just go my own way and do my own thing,

because I am a child of the 60s and 70s I suppose.

If there is a philosophy that I know of that applies under all or almost all circumstances, it would be Zen *nothingness*.

"
.........
 
I think Zen has nothing to do with philosophy.


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Reply from frozenaomi
Jul.17.2012
12:50PM EDT 
Email frozenaomi
vertical line What is Zen if not a philosophy?  It is, when seperated from Buddhism, not a religion.  There is nothing to believe or not believe in.  It is a mind set, a series of schema for interacting with percieved reality.  If it seeks to cut through the perceptions and move toward actual reality that is laudible, but it is still a means of approaching that point.  It's powerful, and provactive, but what is it if not a philosophy?
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Reply from Joe Chip
Jul.17.2012
02:29PM EDT 
vertical line It's a poem.
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Reply from Joe Chip
Jul.17.2012
02:32PM EDT 
vertical line An original we, a tenderly intimate inclination, lovingly inclined.
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Reply from Woodsman
Jul.17.2012
02:48PM EDT 
Email Woodsman
vertical line I talk to trees, and when they answer me it's like, "I didn't know that.", each time.

Wait a minute, I'm stumped, or just sitting on one, companion.
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Reply from Joe Chip
Jul.17.2012
04:02PM EDT 
vertical line Eternal pals.
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Reply from Woodsman
Jul.17.2012
04:46PM EDT 
Email Woodsman
vertical line as I'm sitting here under this tree I sense some motion on my left shoulder

it's a walking stick bug

i take the popsicle stick out of my mouth and hand it to him

he walks onto the stick and I place it at the feet of a Buddha statue above the computer
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Reply from so_teh
Jul.17.2012
04:59PM EDT 
Email so_teh
vertical line Quote: "What is Zen if not a philosophy?  It is, when seperated from Buddhism, not a religion.  There is nothing to believe or not believe in.  It is a mind set, a series of schema for interacting with percieved reality.  If it seeks to cut through the perceptions and move toward actual reality that is laudible, but it is still a means of approaching that point.  It's powerful, and provactive, but what is it if not a philosophy?"
.........

So, I'm reading the Shobo Genzo. It's kind of a poem. But it's not. It's kind of puzzling. But it's not. It's kind of a philosophy. But it's not. It's sort of just a talk in a Buddha Way.
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Reply from esoteric
Jul.17.2012
05:16PM EDT 
vertical line But it's not.
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Reply from esoteric
Jul.17.2012
05:18PM EDT 
vertical line Someone put himself in handcuffs, because he didn't stop at "I'm reading the Shobo Genzo." :-)
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Reply from Joe Chip
Jul.17.2012
05:20PM EDT 
vertical line You can call me Olive.
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Reply from Woodsman
Jul.17.2012
05:28PM EDT 
Email Woodsman
vertical line rain

rain

come A GAIN

from this

to that

a wetness

vein
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Reply from Joe Chip
Jul.17.2012
05:29PM EDT 
vertical line Brother God reigns.
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Reply from so_teh
Jul.17.2012
05:38PM EDT 
Email so_teh
vertical line Quote: "Someone put himself in handcuffs, because he didn't stop at "I'm reading the Shobo Genzo." :-)

"
.........

I'm not so kinky...as you may think...:)
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Reply from esoteric
Jul.17.2012
05:41PM EDT 
vertical line :-D
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Reply from Joe Chip
Jul.17.2012
05:41PM EDT 
vertical line Duplicate teas?
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Reply from so_teh
Jul.17.2012
05:42PM EDT 
Email so_teh
vertical line Thank you Joe Who.
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Reply from Joe Chip
Jul.17.2012
05:48PM EDT 
vertical line Thank you.
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Reply from leoj99
Jul.18.2012
02:02AM EDT 
vertical line Quote: "What is Zen if not a philosophy?  It is, when seperated from Buddhism, not a religion.  There is nothing to believe or not believe in.  It is a mind set, a series of schema for interacting with percieved reality.  If it seeks to cut through the perceptions and move toward actual reality that is laudible, but it is still a means of approaching that point.  It's powerful, and provactive, but what is it if not a philosophy?"
.........

Philosophers are thinkers. Zen Masters are not thinkers.
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Reply from starduster
Jul.18.2012
04:05AM EDT 
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Quote: "What is Zen if not a philosophy?  It is, when seperated from Buddhism, not a religion.  There is nothing to believe or not believe in.  It is a mind set, a series of schema for interacting with percieved reality.  If it seeks to cut through the perceptions and move toward actual reality that is laudible, but it is still a means of approaching that point.  It's powerful, and provactive, but what is it if not a philosophy?"
.........

I was just about to ask *What is it then*, when I scrolled down to your post Naomi.

Nothingness/Anythingness.  What is that which can be anything?  What is it really?  What is its essence?  What is its nature?  Nothing in particular.

Maybe that idea is neither religion nor philosophy, but certainly closer to philosophy.

I suppose it is necessary to cast off anything and everything to get down to the core precept of Zen, nothingness, but once you have done that there is no reason to belabor the point, that is to say once proceeding from that understanding, proceed.

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Reply from leoj99
Jul.19.2012
02:24AM EDT 
vertical line Philosophy is thinking, the rational mind. Zen is not thinking, the intuition. Intuition is knowing, just knowing without thinking. Meditation or Zazen is silencing the mind so that the intuition flowers. When the mind is free of thoughts it is intuitive and this the source of true power.
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Reply from starduster
Jul.19.2012
10:37AM EDT 
vertical line

Quote: "Philosophy is thinking, the rational mind. Zen is not thinking, the intuition. Intuition is knowing, just knowing without thinking. Meditation or Zazen is silencing the mind so that the intuition flowers. When the mind is free of thoughts it is intuitive and this the source of true power. "
.........

Sounds good.

What then is Religion?

Seems to have been overlooked in your analysis.

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Reply from leoj99
Jul.20.2012
03:22AM EDT 
vertical line Religion is also philosophy. Religion is trying to touch the untouchable by thinking..
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Reply from frozenaomi
Jul.20.2012
06:09PM EDT 
Email frozenaomi
vertical line Thoughts come.  Thoughts are a part of what is.  Zen, at least in my limited view, is simply accepting that what is is what is.  Zen is non attachment, sure, but it is also non rejection - neither holding onto nor pushing away what comes.  Simply accepting that what comes is what has come.  To do otherwise is to violate the middle way. 

**shrug** at least that is what my philosophical thinking (and taoist bent) suggests.  Practical application remains....elusive.
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Reply from Avisitor
Jul.21.2012
12:51AM EDT 
Email Avisitor
vertical line Quote: "Thoughts come.  Thoughts are a part of what is.  Zen, at least in my limited view, is simply accepting that what is is what is.  Zen is non attachment, sure, but it is also non rejection - neither holding onto nor pushing away what comes.  Simply accepting that what comes is what has come.  To do otherwise is to violate the middle way. 

**shrug** at least that is what my philosophical thinking (and taoist bent) suggests.  Practical application remains....elusive.
"
.........
I believe the practical application comes when we meditate. Let the thoughts come and go. Don't hold any attachments to them. The other thing is how tightly you hold onto your focus. Too tight and you lose the very thing you seek. Too loose and it gets lost in the flow of thoughts. Just saying??
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Reply from Chryseis
Jul.21.2012
02:05AM EDT 
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Religion is a camp,

providing comfort, cammaraderie, and constancy in the desert.

Psychic is ever present, full of illusive beasts that walk in and out of shadows, leaving footprints on our brains.

Zen takes comfort in there being no comfort and no true sustenance under the sun,

and the shadows are an inspiration, and the desert is full of nothing - but dry broken down rocks

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Reply from starduster
Jul.29.2012
05:36AM EDT 
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seems my apparent psychic ability is a result of paying attention to someone or something and broadining my minds eye to take in more stimuli.

so its akin to extreme concentration then extreme relaxation. or extreme narrow mindedness then a broad mindset.

at least thats the theory.

---------------------------------------------------

A number of times, Chontri has posted about *Yogic Powers*,

which are the development of a *sixth sense*, or senses beyond

the five usual senses, that result simply from meditation.

I contend that this development arrives, or coincides, with ones ability

to stop the internal dialogue, and the more you do that the more these apparent *psychic abilities* improve. 

Every second counts, and is cummulative in effect, or so I say.

This does not make you more than you were,

or more than others, as we all have this within us,

it just makes you more as you naturally are, as everyone is.l



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Reply from Joe Chip
Jul.29.2012
06:47AM EDT 
vertical line I don't contend.
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Reply from shayne
Jul.29.2012
09:21AM EDT 
Email shayne
vertical line Quote: "

seems my apparent psychic ability is a result of paying attention to someone or something and broadining my minds eye to take in more stimuli.

so its akin to extreme concentration then extreme relaxation. or extreme narrow mindedness then a broad mindset.

at least thats the theory.


---------------------------------------------------


A number of times, Chontri has posted about *Yogic Powers*,


which are the development of a *sixth sense*, or senses beyond


the five usual senses, that result simply from meditation.


I contend that this development arrives, or coincides, with ones ability


to stop the internal dialogue, and the more you do that the more these apparent *psychic abilities* improve. 


Every second counts, and is cummulative in effect, or so I say.


This does not make you more than you were,


or more than others, as we all have this within us,


it just makes you more as you naturally are, as everyone is.l




"
.........

yes i agree with this.

im not superior.

its just ive taken a differant route then others.

i cant fix cars for example or play sports good.

so im differant not better.

my pyshick powers hald increaed almost double these last few weeks,

today a major healing day p;hysically.

i actually healed quite a few ailements and tensions.

great healing day.
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Reply from starduster
Jul.29.2012
09:27AM EDT 
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The other night, I lost the clicker for my car.  Whatever that is called, the remote that locks and unlocks your car, or sounds its horn, from a distance.

After looking everywhere that it might have dropped out of my pocket in parking lots and restaurants, it occurred to me it might have gotten under my car seat.

I reached under there, and almost immediately could *feel* it.

I didnt find it by waving my arm around until I hit it.  It wasnt like that at all.  It was like my hand was drawn to it straight on, like a magnetic pull, and I could feel it getting closer as hand and clicker came together. 

It was a cool sensation feeling it was there, feeling it come together, with certainty, realized.

Those are the moments I live for.  I dont attribute that to power that I have.  I have no power.  I still contend that this kind of *sensing* or *feeling* is due to extended application of internal silence in meditation, and wherever else I can manage it in daily life.

I first learned to do it as a baby, and have found inner-silence to be a comfortable retreat ever since.  Some just call it *zoning out*.

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Reply from shayne
Jul.29.2012
09:53AM EDT 
Email shayne
vertical line haha yeah. weird stuff the human mind.

today i

healed my bold legged walk.

fixed a chornic cough from smoking.

and my lower back dont hurt.

not to mention stiff legs. haha.

major healing day.

and i feel very relaxed.

all within like half a hour.

amazing.

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Reply from Joe Chip
Jul.29.2012
10:22AM EDT 
vertical line Evange List
Universa List
Specia List

My spirit is my body .
.
My body is my spirit .
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Reply from starduster
Jul.30.2012
05:16AM EDT 
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Quote: "haha yeah. weird stuff the human mind.

today i

healed my bold legged walk.

fixed a chornic cough from smoking.

and my lower back dont hurt.

not to mention stiff legs. haha.

major healing day.

and i feel very relaxed.

all within like half a hour.

amazing.

"
.........

And dont think I dont believe it.

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Reply from Joe Chip
Jul.30.2012
07:19AM EDT 
vertical line A belief in it, is a denial of it.
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Reply from LeonBasin
Jul.30.2012
08:17PM EDT 
Email LeonBasin
vertical line Quote: "gotta concentrate.

it is that which seeks the answer.

in other words your own mind and being ADEPT at controlling it.

enlightenment seeks enlightenment.

do NOT seek enlightenment outside your own mind.

enlightenment to me IS the discovery of ones own mind.

sorry these thoughts are the basis. gotta learn them first.

anyway......yes you gotta concentrate. and then widen the mind much like going to sleep but only say halfway.

too much and you wont remember anything.

widening the mind goes from a pinpoint to say the size of spotlight.

"
.........

Great stuff! Anymore resources on this? Or experiences?
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Reply from shayne
Jul.30.2012
11:28PM EDT 
Email shayne
vertical line no leon. sorry. just years of meditation.

experiences? yes of course.

read i told a fella on this very forum.

i tell frozennaomi on it her basic age what she looks like ect.
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Reply from leoj99
Jul.31.2012
01:55AM EDT 
vertical line When you are able to stop your thinking mind to think and think.. then and only then that you get enligthtenment.
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Reply from starduster
Jul.31.2012
05:28AM EDT 
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Quote: "A belief in it, is a denial of it. "
.........

Belief and non-belief are just opposite sides of the same coin.

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Reply from starduster
Jul.31.2012
05:36AM EDT 
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Quote: "no leon. sorry. just years of meditation.

experiences? yes of course.

read i told a fella on this very forum.

i tell frozennaomi on it her basic age what she looks like ect.
"
.........

A guy in a bar told me he was going to try to open up my third eye for me.  Then he began to *flick* me in the middle of my forehead with his middle finger.

After a few tries, nothing seemed to be happening.  Then suddenly it was like he was repelled backward, lost his balance, and fell on his ass on the floor.  I had not made any move toward him, and no else was around.  It appeared something was protecting me.

When I first began meditating I used to go in with a question rather than a matra, and I got answers.  By the time I ran out of questions I had come to realize that I shouldnt be asking questions, I should just let things happen naturally, go in and see what the Spirit wants to show me. 

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Reply from Joe Chip
Jul.31.2012
06:59AM EDT 
vertical line Non-belief is not denial.
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Reply from starduster
Jul.31.2012
10:54AM EDT 
vertical line Quote: "

Quote: "no leon. sorry. just years of meditation.

experiences? yes of course.

read i told a fella on this very forum.

i tell frozennaomi on it her basic age what she looks like ect.
"
.........

A guy in a bar told me he was going to try to open up my third eye for me.  Then he began to *flick* me in the middle of my forehead with his middle finger.

After a few tries, nothing seemed to be happening.  Then suddenly it was like he was repelled backward, lost his balance, and fell on his ass on the floor.  I had not made any move toward him, and no else was around.  It appeared something was protecting me.

When I first began meditating I used to go in with a question rather than a matra, and I got answers.  By the time I ran out of questions I had come to realize that I shouldnt be asking questions, I should just let things happen naturally, go in and see what the Spirit wants to show me. 

"
.........

"
.........

This recollection usually reminds me of Shaynes story of how he was knocked out in a fight, lying on the ground, and yet he continued to fight on invisibly.  Onlookers said the other guy was ducking and dodging blows from an unseen foe.

I have heard of the *astral body*, and had some immediate dealings with it.  I suppose that is what is left as a ghost after the body dies.  I have seen it manifest to variable degrees, and in different forms.  Our spiritual selves within, I suppose.

As I was standing there, the guy I was talking to, who was flicking my forehead, suddenly appeared to have been *shoved back* hard and fell down.  I didnt do it, or see who did it.  I dont know if it was my own astral body or that of another spiritual entity, but something or someone stepped in to knock him down.  He didnt want to flick my forehead anymore.

This is all just part of Things as It is, but it makes life interesting.

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Reply from Avisitor
Jul.31.2012
11:45AM EDT 
Email Avisitor
vertical line Quote: "When you are able to stop your thinking mind to think and think.. then and only then that you get enligthtenment. "
.........

If one takes a rock and hit you on the head so you stop your thinking
Are you then enlightened??
It is not just being able "to stop your thinking mind to think and think.."

If that were so .. then anyone who has had a lobotomy would be enlightened and be the wisest among us. It is not so.
If you have the goal of stopping thought then you will miss the by a margin greater than the oceans.
It begins with letting go of thoughts and thinking.
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Reply from Joe Chip
Jul.31.2012
12:02PM EDT 
vertical line Quote: "When you are able to stop your thinking mind to think and think.. then and only then that you get enligthtenment.

"
.........

You are that thought.
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Reply from Woodsman
Jul.31.2012
12:18PM EDT 
Email Woodsman
vertical line I know, you, are not speaking, to, of, about, over, and beyond me, but.... um.... o, v, e, r, m.
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Reply from Woodsman
Jul.31.2012
12:20PM EDT 
Email Woodsman
vertical line ssoooo I was wrong, right, left, under, out, of sight, into the blue, to be in the light, forever 
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Reply from Joe Chip
Jul.31.2012
12:52PM EDT 
vertical line light upon delight ... a shining night ... as the morning sun when first a rose ...
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Reply from Woodsman
Jul.31.2012
03:30PM EDT 
Email Woodsman
vertical line On
each
earth
the sun is,
in her eyes,
I reach for her,
as no surprise,
and kiss her face,
so warm and wise,
no word is spoken as a lie,
the earth now  moves each time we meet a prize
as in this beginning never ending wish to free both selves as one now realize

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Reply from Joe Chip
Jul.31.2012
04:24PM EDT 
vertical line Peace
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Reply from zenmanstan
Jul.31.2012
05:51PM EDT 
Email zenmanstan
vertical line non belief is ignorance theres a koan on this very website dedicated to this teaching unless your talking about beliefs, in which case:
why did the gumshoe fall off the tree?
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Reply from nibble
Jul.31.2012
09:42PM EDT 
vertical line Hmmm... that's a sticky question
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Reply from zenmanstan
Jul.31.2012
10:52PM EDT 
Email zenmanstan
vertical line they never take buddha. in fact hes not even gay yet
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Reply from leoj99
Aug.01.2012
02:39AM EDT 
vertical line That is the purpose of koans to stop you from thinking. If you think of an answer to a koan you miss it. No matter how you think of an answer to a koan it will not be accepted by a good teacher. Once you are able to stop your thoughts and don't think then  you got the koan. lol
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Reply from Joe Chip
Aug.01.2012
05:49AM EDT 
vertical line Stop ! !! !!!
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Reply from Avisitor
Aug.01.2012
08:04AM EDT 
Email Avisitor
vertical line Quote: "That is the purpose of koans to stop you from thinking. If you think of an answer to a koan you miss it. No matter how you think of an answer to a koan it will not be accepted by a good teacher. Once you are able to stop your thoughts and don't think then  you got the koan. lol "
.........
Zen is becoming stupid ... lol

The real answer is in seeing your true nature.
Buddha presented a myriad of methods to arrive at this.
I don't believe he ever said to stop your thoughts??
I could be wrong??
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Reply from Joe Chip
Aug.01.2012
08:33AM EDT 
vertical line The awakening has become a wake. Wake up and warm the soup.
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Reply from zenmanstan
Aug.01.2012
09:39PM EDT 
Email zenmanstan
vertical line damn
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Reply from justin
Aug.02.2012
12:46AM EDT 
Email justin
vertical line Quote: "Quote: "That is the purpose of koans to stop you from thinking. If you think of an answer to a koan you miss it. No matter how you think of an answer to a koan it will not be accepted by a good teacher. Once you are able to stop your thoughts and don't think then  you got the koan. lol "
.........
Zen is becoming stupid ... lol

The real answer is in seeing your true nature.
Buddha presented a myriad of methods to arrive at this.
I don't believe he ever said to stop your thoughts??
I could be wrong??
"
.........

the idea is be in control or be controlled your choice. however there is no control but that is another issue.
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Reply from leoj99
Aug.02.2012
01:31AM EDT 
vertical line "3rd Patriarch said :
"Allegiance to the Void implies denial of its voidness.
The more you talk about It, the more you think about It, the further from It you go.
Stop talking, stop thinking, and there is nothing you will not understand."

"

You see just as I told you.. stop thinking. LOL
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Reply from Avisitor
Aug.02.2012
01:54AM EDT 
Email Avisitor
vertical line Quote: ""3rd Patriarch said :
"Allegiance to the Void implies denial of its voidness.
The more you talk about It, the more you think about It, the further from It you go.
Stop talking, stop thinking, and there is nothing you will not understand."

"

You see just as I told you.. stop thinking. LOL
"
.........
Stop talking, stop thinking, and there is nothing you will not understand.
You're still talking and you're still thinking ... lol
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Reply from Joe Chip
Aug.02.2012
07:37AM EDT 
vertical line Jumpin goddessesss, ever since dey fixed de light in dis plaice de lino it be fulling up of de reoctioniry selectivstss.
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Reply from frozenaomi
Aug.02.2012
09:24AM EDT 
Email frozenaomi
vertical line What is lino?
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Reply from Avisitor
Aug.02.2012
11:52AM EDT 
Email Avisitor
vertical line Quote: "Quote: ""3rd Patriarch said :
"Allegiance to the Void implies denial of its voidness.
The more you talk about It, the more you think about It, the further from It you go.
Stop talking, stop thinking, and there is nothing you will not understand."

"

You see just as I told you.. stop thinking. LOL
"
.........
Stop talking, stop thinking, and there is nothing you will not understand.
You're still talking and you're still thinking ... lol
"
.........
I apologize. It comes down to who is watching the watcher who is watching the one doing the watching ... etc??
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Reply from Joe Chip
Aug.02.2012
02:18PM EDT 
vertical line I'm watching you??

Ever get the feeling I'm being had??
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Reply from Joe Chip
Aug.02.2012
02:19PM EDT 
vertical line etc???
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Reply from Avisitor
Aug.03.2012
12:41PM EDT 
Email Avisitor
vertical line Quote: "etc???"
.........
For the length of thought extends beyond my reach to comprehend and to deal and dispense with ... so, etc!!!
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Reply from Joe Chip
Aug.06.2012
09:36AM EDT 
vertical line "Why hath Satan filled thine heart to lie to the Holy Ghost?"

Wild, awake aware - everything is inscribed Finis.
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Reply from nibble
Aug.06.2012
01:48PM EDT 
vertical line "And I beheld another beast coming up out of the sand; and he had two horns like a lamb, but his mouth was fanged and fiery as the dragon and his body shimmered and burned with great heat while it did hiss like the serpent."
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Reply from starduster
Aug.07.2012
05:00AM EDT 
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Quote: ""Why hath Satan filled thine heart to lie to the Holy Ghost?"

Wild, awake aware - everything is inscribed Finis.
"
.........

Some use there Yogic Powers to see into themselves,

and some use their Yogic Powers to look in on others.

Or maybe we all do both.  What does it matter anyway?

I went to Hell to visit, and Satan returned the favor by visiting me.

We chatted while I was playing a game on my chess computer.

The game was locked up, so I made a tempo move with a rook pawn.

Satan said, *Thats you. Thats who you are, the steadfast pawn,

and by being in the right place at the right time you will enable white to win.*

As it turned out that tempo move broke the game open and white won.

I asked him, *Why me?  Why am I so blessed as to talk with you, and Jehovah,

Jesus, Freya, Pan, and so many others?* 

He answered, *Because you are one of us.* 

Who knows?  Some time later, in a vision, the Spirit told me to come to this place and wait for something dramatic to happen.  I have obeyed, but I really didnt have anything better to do anyway.  I still dont.

But in the matrix of it all, if anything, Im just a white pawn.  Or so I hear.  Jesus and Satan are like white and black bishops.  Jehovah is the white King....  I dont know how Pan and Freya and the others fit in.  I dont really care.  Its all just something to do.

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Reply from Joe Chip
Aug.07.2012
07:16AM EDT 
vertical line I play poker with God. It was a Love invite. On the beach.
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Reply from shayne
Aug.07.2012
07:08PM EDT 
Email shayne
vertical line Quote: ""And I beheld another beast coming up out of the sand; and he had two horns like a lamb, but his mouth was fanged and fiery as the dragon and his body shimmered and burned with great heat while it did hiss like the serpent." "
.........

ok then. what are you going on about?

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Reply from Avisitor
Aug.07.2012
08:48PM EDT 
Email Avisitor
vertical line End of days??
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Reply from nibble
Aug.07.2012
11:00PM EDT 
vertical line Quote: "Quote: ""And I beheld another beast coming up out of the sand; and he had two horns like a lamb, but his mouth was fanged and fiery as the dragon and his body shimmered and burned with great heat while it did hiss like the serpent." "
.........

ok then. what are you going on about?

"
.........

It is like aiming an arrow at a wrong target. Nobody can fix feeling in any particular place. It will arise wherever there is sense object preceding.
(Living Buddhist Masters By Jack Kornfield)

(u ruin the mystism, let`s call it art:))
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Reply from Joe Chip
Aug.08.2012
05:44AM EDT 
vertical line Square thoughts resist circles.
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Reply from nibble
Aug.08.2012
11:27AM EDT 
vertical line Quote: "Square thoughts resist circles. "
.........
It is all around you — the feudatory, the diocese, the corporation, the platoon, the sports club, the dance troupes, the rebel cell, the planning council, the prayer group… each with its master and servants, its host and parasites. And the swarms of alienating devices (including these very words!) tend eventually to be enlisted in the argument for a return to "those better times." I despair of teaching you other ways.
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Reply from so_teh
Aug.08.2012
07:12PM EDT 
Email so_teh
vertical line Blink
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Reply from frozenaomi
Aug.08.2012
11:47PM EDT 
Email frozenaomi
vertical line I really don't understand the desire to return to the past. I still say indoor plumbing is the crowning human achievement followed by closely by the Internet. Life in the Paleozoic was uncomfortable brutish and short. Life has gotten more complicated, sure, but on the whole don't you think it's better?
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Reply from leoj99
Aug.09.2012
12:14AM EDT 
vertical line Returning to the past is nothing but thinking... memory. remembering. Imagining the future is thinking too... speculation... If you don't think you are not attached to the past as memory and the future as speculation.
If you are always remembering and speculating so you are not in the present moment.
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Reply from Joe Chip
Aug.09.2012
06:12AM EDT 
vertical line The End is nigh - Occupy!
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Reply from starduster
Aug.09.2012
06:43AM EDT 
vertical line

Quote: "Square thoughts resist circles. "
.........

Round pizzas come in square boxes.

Good thing it isnt the other way around or they wouldnt fit.

See ?  The Universe is unfolding as it should.

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Reply from Joe Chip
Aug.09.2012
06:58AM EDT 
vertical line Chip?
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Reply from starduster
Aug.10.2012
01:18PM EDT 
vertical line

Quote: "Chip?"
.........

Earnie ?

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Reply from Avisitor
Aug.10.2012
02:53PM EDT 
Email Avisitor
vertical line Quote: "I really don't understand the desire to return to the past. I still say indoor plumbing is the crowning human achievement followed by closely by the Internet. Life in the Paleozoic was uncomfortable brutish and short. Life has gotten more complicated, sure, but on the whole don't you think it's better?"
.........
It isn't returning to human history .. past.
It is about returning to a personal past.
When you experience life, there are times when you associate emotions with events.
Those periods of times are so joyous that they pull at the heart and live on as memories in the mind.
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Reply from nibble
Aug.10.2012
07:10PM EDT 
vertical line  “Wherever there is Chip, there are Dale.” “Always?” “Always.”
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Reply from Chryseis
Aug.10.2012
07:20PM EDT 
vertical line Quote: "

Quote: "Square thoughts resist circles. "
.........

Round pizzas come in square boxes.

Good thing it isnt the other way around or they wouldnt fit.

See ?  The Universe is unfolding as it should.

"
.........

"
.........

With eyes wide open, as round as pizzas,

The universe unfolds a box and puts me in it.

Zen, when I look around and realize I am in a construction,

I stand before myself naked in the eyes of darkness.

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Reply from leoj99
Aug.11.2012
01:44AM EDT 
vertical line Quote: "Quote: "I really don't understand the desire to return to the past. I still say indoor plumbing is the crowning human achievement followed by closely by the Internet. Life in the Paleozoic was uncomfortable brutish and short. Life has gotten more complicated, sure, but on the whole don't you think it's better?"
.........
It isn't returning to human history .. past.
It is about returning to a personal past.
When you experience life, there are times when you associate emotions with events.
Those periods of times are so joyous that they pull at the heart and live on as memories in the mind.
"
.........

So your memories makes you happy. It seems that is called sentimentalism. Suppose your memories are sad you want to relive the sadness over and over again.
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Reply from Joe Chip
Aug.11.2012
08:51AM EDT 
vertical line Nothing to do in order to be.
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Reply from Avisitor
Aug.11.2012
09:26AM EDT 
Email Avisitor
vertical line Quote: "Quote: "Quote: "I really don't understand the desire to return to the past. I still say indoor plumbing is the crowning human achievement followed by closely by the Internet. Life in the Paleozoic was uncomfortable brutish and short. Life has gotten more complicated, sure, but on the whole don't you think it's better?"
.........
It isn't returning to human history .. past.
It is about returning to a personal past.
When you experience life, there are times when you associate emotions with events.
Those periods of times are so joyous that they pull at the heart and live on as memories in the mind.
"
.........

So your memories makes you happy. It seems that is called sentimentalism. Suppose your memories are sad you want to relive the sadness over and over again.
"
.........
That is what is known as madness ... hahaha
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Reply from Joe Chip
Aug.14.2012
11:41AM EDT 
vertical line I want to relive the madness over and over again MWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH with mouth wide open HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH
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Reply from so_teh
Aug.14.2012
11:25PM EDT 
Email so_teh
vertical line Quote: "Chip?"
.........

No More Mister Nice Guy?
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Reply from starduster
Aug.15.2012
05:40AM EDT 
vertical line Quote: "Quote: "

Quote: "Square thoughts resist circles. "
.........

Round pizzas come in square boxes.

Good thing it isnt the other way around or they wouldnt fit.

See ?  The Universe is unfolding as it should.

"
.........

"
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With eyes wide open, as round as pizzas,

The universe unfolds a box and puts me in it.

Zen, when I look around and realize I am in a construction,

I stand before myself naked in the eyes of darkness.

"
.........

"
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Way cool to feel yourself with nothing to hide before that which sees everything,

because It is being everything. 

I try to be careful to be honest because I know on an unconscious level we are all the same One, and so everyone knows everything about everyone even though we may not be consciously aware of it.  What we know unconsciously affects our decisionmaking as much as the things we know outright.

And all of our secrets are the same anyway.

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Reply from Joe Chip
Aug.15.2012
05:44AM EDT 
vertical line Nice etiquette.
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