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  The Buddha was asked:
-To what extent can a person be a speaker of the way?

He answered:
-If a person teaches the way in order to transcend the tyranny of the
material things and to teach how to transcend feelings, perceptions,
... continue...

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→→→→ vertical line TOPIC: RISE ABOVE HUMANITY
vertical line Posted on Jul.12.2012 @ 05:50AM EDT by starduster

As long as you think of yourself as a human being you will be limited to that.

Human beings have been around for about 8 million years, or at least thats when anthropologists say that humans became sufficiently distinct in genetic terms to qualify as a species on their own within the family of Great Apes.

Earth is about 4.5 billion years old according to the geologists.  And Earth is only a small part of a universe full of stars and galaxies,  It doesnt even compare as a *pinpoint* to infinite space.

Then also this entire universe, even though of infinite and eternal dimensions, is only one of a virtually unlimited number of planes of existence, and doesnt even compare as a *pinpoint* in that vast volume.  In my astral travels I have been to a few other planes of existence, and later compared notes with other people who have travelled to the same places.

And then there is the Void itself, and Im by far not the only one to have trelled there, which to the best of my knowledge holds one single consciousness, or awareness, that is creating everything within itself, of itself, by itself, for itself.  Nothing else matters.

I dont know if I will have anything more or better to say further down my path.  Thats what it looks like from here, now.

Im not saying this is the Truth, but I believe it to be true now, Things as It is.


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Reply from Avisitor
Jul.12.2012
01:16PM EDT 
Email Avisitor
vertical line I know of nothing about the planes of existence. Whether real or imaginary, they don't mean anything to me. I have been working on letting the mind quiet down. And, it only when I focus and put my attention on my breathe that I reach moments of silence.
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 139330
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Reply from sit_teh
Jul.12.2012
07:12PM EDT 
Email sit_teh
vertical line http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Four_stages_of_enlightenment

I guess I would consider enlightenment as a rise above humanity. At best I would consider myself as a once-returner. Haha, but who cares! :)

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Reply from Woodsman
Jul.12.2012
09:04PM EDT 
vertical line Once all sound is equally perceived the door opens, and you are always welcomed in, out of word's control..
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 139332
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Reply from frozenaomi
Jul.12.2012
09:45PM EDT 
Email frozenaomi
vertical line I dunno.  I've never really had a problem with being a human.  I agree that being a human isn't a very important thing to be, but things as they are does not promise, or even imply importance.  In fact, generally it implies the opposite.  Things are as they are, and we are one of those things.  We are because we are, one of the things which is.  Maybe when I die I will find out that I'm something more.  If so I'll deal with that if it happens, just as I will if it turns out that I am less. 

For example, in the mythology of the sadduccees (and in the philosophy of Boethius which rather blatantly steals from them) we don't even have an afterlife.  We just return to God, that bit of us which was stranded on Earth returning to the source.  I don't know if I believe that, or do not believe that.  Mostly it seems supremely irrelevant.  That is then, if then ever comes, if then even exists.  This is now and irregardless of what I am all I can do is meet the unfolding moment honestly to the best of my ability.

I'd say I am content with myself, but of course that is a lie.  I doubt anyone is truly content with themselves.  But I have never felt particularly limited as a human. 

I am sure there are plenty of people who are beyond human.  Your Prophets and your Bodhisattvas.  There are more things in just this reality, let alone any other possible dimensions, than I can dream of.  I wish them well as they are on the path of who they are as they are, and I hope they will not disparage me as I follow the path of who I am as I am.

2X, and X^2, and even x/2, will all reach infinity eventually; it's just that the X^2 will do it faster.  We are all on our trajectories, some faster some slower, but I believe everyone what ever their path, their distance along it, and their rate of attainment will, in the fullness of time, reach perfection. 


Please forgive the math analogy.  I'm NOT trying to play smart, its just the system my mind thinks in.   I wish I had some of the intuitive grasps you all have.
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Reply from Avisitor
Jul.12.2012
10:53PM EDT 
Email Avisitor
vertical line To rise above humanity??
I only wish to find with some urgency the truth that has always been there.
The no self ... no illusion ... end to the separation between me and the spirit.
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Reply from shayne
Jul.13.2012
09:41AM EDT 
Email shayne
vertical line i totally love me.

last night.

i talked to a woman ive been chatting with awhile. shes a shrink. and she dont think im nuts either. haha. but anyway. shes half black and half american indian. gorgeous woman. inside and out.

well i described in detail her office she was at at the moment. outside the window.....her being nervous and shuffeling her feet. ect.

haha.

she loves me ALOT!

and i care/respect/love/admire her.

she makes my heart sing. i tell her.

i told her also her heart was racing.

mine too.

haha.

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Reply from Joe Chip
Jul.13.2012
10:13AM EDT 
vertical line Jesus is calling but I don't like some of his friends.
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 139352
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Reply from shayne
Jul.14.2012
10:28AM EDT 
Email shayne
vertical line this holy life is meant to be lived. not to become. their is no rise above humanity. their is just a asthetic approach that fails in the end. none above. none below.
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Reply from Joe Chip
Jul.14.2012
11:56AM EDT 
vertical line Spinal ladders and high rises contempt for the world and love of life.
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Reply from starduster
Jul.14.2012
05:44PM EDT 
vertical line

Quote: "i totally love me.

last night.

i talked to a woman ive been chatting with awhile. shes a shrink. and she dont think im nuts either. haha. but anyway. shes half black and half american indian. gorgeous woman. inside and out.

well i described in detail her office she was at at the moment. outside the window.....her being nervous and shuffeling her feet. ect.

haha.

she loves me ALOT!

and i care/respect/love/admire her.

she makes my heart sing. i tell her.

i told her also her heart was racing.

mine too.

haha.

"
.........

Be careful online, Shayne, remember that our friend Polly turned out to be someone named David.

She sent me naked pics.  I wonder who they were of.

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Reply from starduster
Jul.14.2012
06:01PM EDT 
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Quote: "Jesus is calling but I don't like some of his friends. "
.........

In the history and mythology of my own visions, Jesus and I have not gotten along very well.  I dont believe it either, so thats okay.  If anything, its all just history to me, and I dont need it anymore.

By that measure, he and I disagreed in heaven, thousands of years ago, about the future of mankind.  I wanted to kill everyone, and he wanted to save everyone.  He came to teach, and was killed.  I came to kill, and found true love with the Spirit instead. 

So not everyone will be killed, and not everyone will be saved.  That is our compromise agreement.  By this standard, those who are saved would live forever, and those who are not would be dead forever.  But like I said, I dont believe it either.

What I believe is that when I die I will return to the Void, to my own plane of existence in the Void, and be there with the Spirit forever.  She tells me that, in essence, it will be like a star trek holodeck, an entire universe in itself of our choosing at any time, for *an eternity*. 

Now, that is what I want, and it is what I choose to believe in.

Choose what you want to believe in, and I wish you well in your own plane of existence.  There is no limit to how many of them the Spirit can create.

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Reply from shayne
Jul.14.2012
06:32PM EDT 
Email shayne
vertical line Quote: "

Quote: "i totally love me.

last night.

i talked to a woman ive been chatting with awhile. shes a shrink. and she dont think im nuts either. haha. but anyway. shes half black and half american indian. gorgeous woman. inside and out.

well i described in detail her office she was at at the moment. outside the window.....her being nervous and shuffeling her feet. ect.

haha.

she loves me ALOT!

and i care/respect/love/admire her.

she makes my heart sing. i tell her.

i told her also her heart was racing.

mine too.

haha.

"
.........


Be careful online, Shayne, remember that our friend Polly turned out to be someone named David.


She sent me naked pics.  I wonder who they were of.

"
.........

i talk to her on the phone everyday. haha.

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Reply from Joe Chip
Jul.15.2012
06:12AM EDT 
vertical line You play chess with the Devil.
I play poker with God.
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Reply from starduster
Jul.15.2012
06:39AM EDT 
vertical line Quote: "Quote: "

Quote: "i totally love me.

last night.

i talked to a woman ive been chatting with awhile. shes a shrink. and she dont think im nuts either. haha. but anyway. shes half black and half american indian. gorgeous woman. inside and out.

well i described in detail her office she was at at the moment. outside the window.....her being nervous and shuffeling her feet. ect.

haha.

she loves me ALOT!

and i care/respect/love/admire her.

she makes my heart sing. i tell her.

i told her also her heart was racing.

mine too.

haha.

"
.........


Be careful online, Shayne, remember that our friend Polly turned out to be someone named David.


She sent me naked pics.  I wonder who they were of.

"
.........

i talk to her on the phone everyday. haha.

"
.........

"
.........

i talk to her on the phone everyday. haha.

"
.........

You talk to Polly ?

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Reply from shayne
Jul.15.2012
07:21AM EDT 
Email shayne
vertical line no a black woman who is a shrink named patience.
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Reply from Joe Chip
Jul.15.2012
07:30AM EDT 
vertical line God holds 5 Aces.
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Reply from leoj99
Jul.15.2012
07:44PM EDT 
vertical line I think rising above humanity takes lots of thinking to do. Until you can't think anymore and you have not risen above humanity.
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Reply from Avisitor
Jul.16.2012
02:12AM EDT 
Email Avisitor
vertical line You can fulfill your role in life with your humanity
But, to rise above it means that you can be more than human
It that even possible?? Be more than human??
Be a Buddha???
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Reply from Joe Chip
Jul.16.2012
05:09AM EDT 
vertical line A Royal Flush won't help you. 
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Reply from starduster
Jul.16.2012
08:11AM EDT 
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Quote: "You can fulfill your role in life with your humanity
But, to rise above it means that you can be more than human
It that even possible?? Be more than human??
Be a Buddha???
"
.........

I did not mean to be more than human, and being a buddha is not more than human.

The ego is limited to accomplishment in human terms, constantly striving to achieve more in human terms.

I meant to reassess the value of *human terms*.  Is this really accomplishment ? Or does this hold you back from something else ?

In my own plane of existence in the Void I can have an unlimited number of chests of gold and jewels.  However they have no value there, except just to wear them.  They are not currency since they have no relevancy to anyone else.  And since I plan to spend an eternity there, why should I strive to accumlate golf and jewels in this world?  Why would I want to strive for anything in this world that does not have relevancy in my own world ?

Jesus said something about *setting up your stores in Heaven, not on Earth*.  We are here for only a short time.

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Reply from zbishak
Jul.16.2012
08:34AM EDT 
Email zbishak
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when you can no longer be a threat to a fellow human you have achieved humanity'

many species are of no threat to each other , like cows ,sheep

Homo sapiens has still to reach that level.

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Reply from Joe Chip
Jul.16.2012
08:43AM EDT 
vertical line Good morrow.
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Reply from zbishak
Jul.16.2012
08:56AM EDT 
Email zbishak
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good night joe

the middle of winter

the chill absent

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Reply from Avisitor
Jul.16.2012
10:21AM EDT 
Email Avisitor
vertical line Quote: "

Quote: "You can fulfill your role in life with your humanity
But, to rise above it means that you can be more than human
It that even possible?? Be more than human??
Be a Buddha???
"
.........

I did not mean to be more than human, and being a buddha is not more than human.

The ego is limited to accomplishment in human terms, constantly striving to achieve more in human terms.

I meant to reassess the value of *human terms*.  Is this really accomplishment ? Or does this hold you back from something else ?

In my own plane of existence in the Void I can have an unlimited number of chests of gold and jewels.  However they have no value there, except just to wear them.  They are not currency since they have no relevancy to anyone else.  And since I plan to spend an eternity there, why should I strive to accumlate golf and jewels in this world?  Why would I want to strive for anything in this world that does not have relevancy in my own world ?

Jesus said something about *setting up your stores in Heaven, not on Earth*.  We are here for only a short time.

"
.........
Being Buddha is not the same as being human ... is it??
And, what is done here does have value. Take Dr. Jonas Salk's work on the polio vaccine. Is it real accomplishment? Or is it holding him back from something else??

Each place has their own values and have their own needs.
What they are and what we do .. they are all part of the stores we set up .. whether here or in Heaven. Short time or long time ... it is a lifetime.

Sorry, didn't mean to be argumentative. It is just my nature to tear at things until I understand them better.
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Reply from Joe Chip
Jul.16.2012
11:27AM EDT 
vertical line Quote: "

good night joe


the middle of winter


the chill absent

"
.........

Take care zbishak.
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Reply from starduster
Jul.17.2012
06:55AM EDT 
vertical line Quote: "

when you can no longer be a threat to a fellow human you have achieved humanity'

many species are of no threat to each other , like cows ,sheep

Homo sapiens has still to reach that level.

"
.........

"
.........

A moth was sleeping on my desk a while ago.

Not there now, I guess he left.

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Reply from zbishak
Jul.17.2012
08:26AM EDT 
Email zbishak
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the perceived space between you

unites you

so how could it ever leave?

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Reply from frozenaomi
Jul.17.2012
01:20PM EDT 
Email frozenaomi
vertical line Quote: "

when you can no longer be a threat to a fellow human you have achieved humanity'

many species are of no threat to each other , like cows ,sheep

Homo sapiens has still to reach that level.

"
.........

Well, to throw the minor quible in that rams and bulls in ruts dueling for mates do hurt each other, occasionally seriously, I agree  with the larger point.  It requires humanity to be capable of harming one another maliciously, and it takes humanity to opt to rise above those impulses.  Hurting each other is easy.  It's a quick low (personal) cost means of getting what you want so long as you or your group is physically stronger than your opponents. 

Unfortunately, cultures long ago progressed to the point where macro conflicts were no longer confined to the combatants, and technology has exacerbated the trend.   We need to employ the same intelect that teaches us as children that the boy with the biggest fist always gets to each lunch to learn that the man with the biggest bomb ensures only that nobody gets to eat lunch. 
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Reply from Joe Chip
Jul.17.2012
01:59PM EDT 
vertical line Soul cobbling.
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Reply from leoj99
Jul.18.2012
02:13AM EDT 
vertical line It seems to me that  to rise above humanity mean getting out of the human conciousness. Or you may call it universal conciousness.
Your conciousness is nothing but a group conciousness which is human that has resulted in all the wars and miseries of man.

Going above that conciousness is really a miraculous feat.
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Reply from starduster
Jul.18.2012
03:38AM EDT 
vertical line Quote: "

the perceived space between you

unites you

so how could it ever leave?

"
.........

"
.........

It didnt need to.

It wasnt really there to begin with, as neither am I.

Im just a wisp of ether, too.

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Reply from starduster
Jul.18.2012
03:52AM EDT 
vertical line

Quote: "It seems to me that  to rise above humanity mean getting out of the human conciousness. Or you may call it universal conciousness.
Your conciousness is nothing but a group conciousness which is human that has resulted in all the wars and miseries of man.

Going above that conciousness is really a miraculous feat.
"
.........

Its been miraculous for me personally, but Im not writing any books, or selling wisdom.

Through the practice of astral travel via transcendental meditation, I have had visionary experiences in which I am not always human, and not always in this world.

Real or imaginary, as if there were a difference, this has given me the opportunity to see myself other than as human, and as not residing in this world exclusively.  I have not always even been me, although returning to human form as myself here afterwards.

By talking about rising above humanity I did not mean to exceed humanity, or be better than humanity, just not to limit yourself to being human in a Universe of unlimited possibilities.

It will be as It will be, we just have to wait and see, and accept Things as It is.

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Reply from zbishak
Jul.18.2012
07:50AM EDT 
Email zbishak
vertical line Quote: "Quote: "

when you can no longer be a threat to a fellow human you have achieved humanity'

many species are of no threat to each other , like cows ,sheep

Homo sapiens has still to reach that level.

"
.........

Well, to throw the minor quibble in that rams and bulls in ruts dueling for mates do hurt each other, occasionally seriously, I agree  with the larger point.  It requires humanity to be capable of harming one another maliciously, and it takes humanity to opt to rise above those impulses.  Hurting each other is easy.  It's a quick low (personal) cost means of getting what you want so long as you or your group is physically stronger than your opponents. 

Unfortunately, cultures long ago progressed to the point where macro conflicts were no longer confined to the combatants, and technology has exacerbated the trend.   We need to employ the same intellect that teaches us as children that the boy with the biggest fist always gets to each lunch to learn that the man with the biggest bomb ensures only that nobody gets to eat lunch. 
"
......... hello frozenaomi,

"
.........

Well, to throw the minor quibble in that rams and bulls in ruts dueling for mates do hurt each other, occasionally seriously, I agree  with the larger point.  It requires humanity to be capable of harming one another maliciously, and it takes humanity to opt to rise above those impulses.  Hurting each other is easy.  It's a quick low (personal) cost means of getting what you want so long as you or your group is physically stronger than your opponents. 

Unfortunately, cultures long ago progressed to the point where macro conflicts were no longer confined to the combatants, and technology has exacerbated the trend.   We need to employ the same intellect that teaches us as children that the boy with the biggest fist always gets to each lunch to learn that the man with the biggest bomb ensures only that nobody gets to eat lunch. 
"
......... hello frozenaomi,

maybe someday the cows and sheep may one day evolve to the wonderful state that humanity has reached,   and seek out a toddler or two to feast on a leg of human

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Reply from Joe Chip
Jul.18.2012
08:04AM EDT 
vertical line Always take the second place. Never look down on anyone.
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Reply from zbishak
Jul.18.2012
08:07AM EDT 
Email zbishak
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no, it cant happen,

 the cows and sheep don't the motivation for wealth and fame to motivate them nor free to air t v  to guide them

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Reply from Joe Chip
Jul.18.2012
08:12AM EDT 
vertical line Nothing succeeds like shopping.
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Reply from zbishak
Jul.18.2012
08:40AM EDT 
Email zbishak
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your too kind Joe

do need some new work clothes though

my last post was going to tag onto the previous i sent

you delicate touch of poetry snuck between the two and was fussed with neither

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Reply from Joe Chip
Jul.18.2012
08:51AM EDT 
vertical line Butcher's shop
fenced in the buffalo
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Reply from zbishak
Jul.18.2012
08:54AM EDT 
Email zbishak
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left its tail stuck in the window too long

and satori eluded it

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Reply from Avisitor
Jul.18.2012
01:43PM EDT 
Email Avisitor
vertical line I rise but never above humanity
Guess, I just don't know how to do that
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Reply from Woodsman
Jul.18.2012
03:24PM EDT 
vertical line take the god's hands
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Reply from Woodsman
Jul.18.2012
03:26PM EDT 
vertical line right now they are in the wind and within your breath
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Reply from Woodsman
Jul.18.2012
03:26PM EDT 
vertical line the believing is in the breathing 
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Reply from Woodsman
Jul.18.2012
03:30PM EDT 
vertical line spirit is in breath,  "into thy hands I commend my spirit", and breath is lifted out of suffering
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Reply from leoj99
Jul.19.2012
01:43AM EDT 
vertical line Above humanity means having a conciousness that is radically different from the human conciousness.
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Reply from Joe Chip
Jul.19.2012
07:00AM EDT 
vertical line The sorrows of God must be hard to bear
If he really has love in his heart
And the hardest part in the world to play
Must surely be God's Part.

~ Woodbine Willie


Greetings from the gutter.
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Reply from Joe Chip
Jul.19.2012
09:29AM EDT 
vertical line Rocky Mountain Way

Meadows
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Reply from Joe Chip
Jul.19.2012
10:30AM EDT 
vertical line Venus (De Milo)
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Reply from starduster
Jul.19.2012
10:35AM EDT 
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Quote: "Above humanity means having a conciousness that is radically different from the human conciousness. "
.........

I sure hope so.

Mankind is one of the most inhumane animals I have ever encountered.

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Reply from Joe Chip
Jul.19.2012
10:42AM EDT 
vertical line Update the updater.
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Reply from Avisitor
Jul.19.2012
09:08PM EDT 
Email Avisitor
vertical line Quote: "

Quote: "Above humanity means having a conciousness that is radically different from the human conciousness. "
.........

I sure hope so.

Mankind is one of the most inhumane animals I have ever encountered.

"
.........
So, do you mean the consciousness of a bird which is so radically different from humans??

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Reply from starduster
Jul.19.2012
10:37PM EDT 
vertical line Quote: "Quote: "

Quote: "Above humanity means having a conciousness that is radically different from the human conciousness. "
.........

I sure hope so.

Mankind is one of the most inhumane animals I have ever encountered.

"
.........
So, do you mean the consciousness of a bird which is so radically different from humans??
"
.........

"
.........
So, do you mean the consciousness of a bird which is so radically different from humans??
"
.........

Thats really the point, the consciousness of other beings, plant, animal, and spirit, is not greatly different than us. 

Its just the humans who think they are different, and that no other species or beings count.  Human ego-centricity.

All the others pretty much see it as us all being in it together.

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Reply from Joe Chip
Jul.20.2012
07:04AM EDT 
vertical line Götterdämmerung
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 139630
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Reply from frozenaomi
Jul.20.2012
06:11PM EDT 
Email frozenaomi
vertical line Quote: "Quote: "Quote: "

when you can no longer be a threat to a fellow human you have achieved humanity'

many species are of no threat to each other , like cows ,sheep

Homo sapiens has still to reach that level.

"
.........

Well, to throw the minor quibble in that rams and bulls in ruts dueling for mates do hurt each other, occasionally seriously, I agree  with the larger point.  It requires humanity to be capable of harming one another maliciously, and it takes humanity to opt to rise above those impulses.  Hurting each other is easy.  It's a quick low (personal) cost means of getting what you want so long as you or your group is physically stronger than your opponents. 

Unfortunately, cultures long ago progressed to the point where macro conflicts were no longer confined to the combatants, and technology has exacerbated the trend.   We need to employ the same intellect that teaches us as children that the boy with the biggest fist always gets to each lunch to learn that the man with the biggest bomb ensures only that nobody gets to eat lunch. 
"
......... hello frozenaomi,

"
.........

Well, to throw the minor quibble in that rams and bulls in ruts dueling for mates do hurt each other, occasionally seriously, I agree  with the larger point.  It requires humanity to be capable of harming one another maliciously, and it takes humanity to opt to rise above those impulses.  Hurting each other is easy.  It's a quick low (personal) cost means of getting what you want so long as you or your group is physically stronger than your opponents. 

Unfortunately, cultures long ago progressed to the point where macro conflicts were no longer confined to the combatants, and technology has exacerbated the trend.   We need to employ the same intellect that teaches us as children that the boy with the biggest fist always gets to each lunch to learn that the man with the biggest bomb ensures only that nobody gets to eat lunch. 
"
......... hello frozenaomi,

maybe someday the cows and sheep may one day evolve to the wonderful state that humanity has reached,   and seek out a toddler or two to feast on a leg of human

"
.........

Here is hoping that more of them opt to be vegetarian than we thus far have.
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Reply from frozenaomi
Jul.20.2012
06:14PM EDT 
Email frozenaomi
vertical line Quote: "

no, it cant happen,

 the cows and sheep don't the motivation for wealth and fame to motivate them nor free to air t v  to guide them

"
.........

Don't they?  Even sheep and cows will wander, presumably seeking better (or at least more) grazing.   Chance and time often renders the impossible accomplished.
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Reply from frozenaomi
Jul.20.2012
06:18PM EDT 
Email frozenaomi
vertical line Quote: "Quote: "Quote: "

Quote: "Above humanity means having a conciousness that is radically different from the human conciousness. "
.........

I sure hope so.

Mankind is one of the most inhumane animals I have ever encountered.

"
.........
So, do you mean the consciousness of a bird which is so radically different from humans??
"
.........

"


.........
So, do you mean the consciousness of a bird which is so radically different from humans??
"
.........

Thats really the point, the consciousness of other beings, plant, animal, and spirit, is not greatly different than us. 

Its just the humans who think they are different, and that no other species or beings count.  Human ego-centricity.

All the others pretty much see it as us all being in it together.

"
.........


Exactly.

Scientists spent a century trying to define a trait that is unique to humans.  As far as I know, the only truly human signature lies in our DNA and perhaps in the degree of our accomplishments.  Perhaps.  Cyanobacteria in the late archea caused a much greater extinction event and global change than we have yet.   Humans only think they are such hot stuff because they are human. 
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Reply from Avisitor
Jul.21.2012
12:46AM EDT 
Email Avisitor
vertical line It is only in the human form that we have the chance to free ourselves from the cycle of death and rebirth. I read that somewhere .. something about how Buddha was talking about the rebirth cycleand the other realms. Well, maybe I was mistaken. Maybe we can find our true nature and cross over to Nirvana even if we are birds or cows or whatever.
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Reply from Chryseis
Jul.21.2012
02:19AM EDT 
vertical line A distinctly, and some might say, instrinsically crucial human trait is hallowedness
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Reply from Joe Chip
Jul.21.2012
06:43AM EDT 
vertical line Maria !!!


Here's my heart . . .
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Reply from Chryseis
Jul.21.2012
09:13AM EDT 
vertical line ave
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Reply from Woodsman
Jul.21.2012
09:46AM EDT 
vertical line breathe without desire to have
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Reply from Joe Chip
Jul.21.2012
01:11PM EDT 
vertical line I was furious. The studio audience were all morons, the announcer was a moron, the sponsors were morons, and I just damn well wasn't going to shine my shoes for them [...] I said they couldn't see them anyway, where we sat. He said to shine them anyway. He said to shine them for the Fat Lady. I didn't know what the hell he was talking about [...] but I shined my shoes for the Fat Lady every time I went on the air again.

- [Franny imagines the Fat Lady] sitting on a porch all day, swatting flies, with her radio going full-blast from morning till night […] the heat was terrible and she probably had cancer ...

I'll tell you a terrible secret - Are you listening to me? There isn't anyone out there who isn't [the] Fat Lady. There isn't anyone anywhere that isn't [the] Fat Lady. Don't you know that? Don't you know that goddam secret yet? And don't you know - listen to me now - don't you know who that Fat Lady really is? Ah, buddy. Ah, buddy. It's Christ Himself. Christ Himself buddy.
~ J D Salinger, Franny and Zooey
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Reply from sit_teh
Jul.21.2012
06:12PM EDT 
Email sit_teh
vertical line To rise above humanity to me means spirituality. Spirituality to me means having 3 loving brothers, 2 loving parents, a dog, being born with a wonderful family, having a close friends circle, living in a beautiful and happy place in this world, having all my myriad needs met thanks to the inconceivable intentions by many others in our community, enjoying the simple daily comforts that life seems to provide, to breathe and know everyday that I am alive, and just to know without a thought or worry that Love is in, out and around every minute particle of life.
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Reply from sit_teh
Jul.21.2012
06:21PM EDT 
Email sit_teh
vertical line That's just me. Sometimes spirituality means to think of no me and that is just the same. :)
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Reply from Woodsman
Jul.21.2012
08:20PM EDT 
vertical line There's this feeling I get sometimes, out in the woods, like an old woman is present, in spirit, in the wind. And so I bow my head, clasp my hands together and say a soft blessing.
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Reply from Joe Chip
Jul.22.2012
07:23AM EDT 
vertical line There's a cross in her heart - so shall she humiliate herself to the end of time.
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Reply from Avisitor
Jul.22.2012
02:00PM EDT 
Email Avisitor
vertical line In the woods, there are many things. Some let themselves be seen and other do not.
Still, you can look .. and that is the difference
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Reply from Joe Chip
Jul.22.2012
03:18PM EDT 
vertical line Mysterium tremendum et fascinas.
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Reply from Joe Chip
Jul.23.2012
08:08AM EDT 
vertical line Mysterium Tremendum et Fascinans
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Reply from frozenaomi
Jul.23.2012
01:22PM EDT 
Email frozenaomi
vertical line Quote: "A distinctly, and some might say, instrinsically crucial human trait is hallowedness"
.........

Says who, and by whose standard?  Would we be able to recognize an enlightened elephant, or tell the difference between it and a foolish pachyderm? 
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Reply from Avisitor
Jul.23.2012
07:05PM EDT 
Email Avisitor
vertical line Who has soup??
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Reply from Joe Chip
Jul.23.2012
07:31PM EDT 
vertical line I look around and there's a heartache following me.
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Reply from Chryseis
Jul.23.2012
10:25PM EDT 
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Quote: "Quote: "A distinctly, and some might say, instrinsically crucial human trait is hallowedness"
.........

Says who, and by whose standard?  Would we be able to recognize an enlightened elephant, or tell the difference between it and a foolish pachyderm? 
"
.........

We could easily recognize an enlightened elephant, generally speaking, by just recognising an elephant.

Secondly, what are we talking about, being enlightened or having hallowedness?

And if you see a foolish pachyderm, have compassion, it is probably a circus animal or a burdened working elephant, because man would have confused it from its nature.

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Reply from starduster
Jul.29.2012
05:30AM EDT 
vertical line Quote: "Quote: "Quote: "Quote: "

Quote: "Above humanity means having a conciousness that is radically different from the human conciousness. "
.........

I sure hope so.

Mankind is one of the most inhumane animals I have ever encountered.

"
.........
So, do you mean the consciousness of a bird which is so radically different from humans??
"
.........

"


.........
So, do you mean the consciousness of a bird which is so radically different from humans??
"
.........

Thats really the point, the consciousness of other beings, plant, animal, and spirit, is not greatly different than us. 

Its just the humans who think they are different, and that no other species or beings count.  Human ego-centricity.

All the others pretty much see it as us all being in it together.

"
.........


Exactly.

Scientists spent a century trying to define a trait that is unique to humans.  As far as I know, the only truly human signature lies in our DNA and perhaps in the degree of our accomplishments.  Perhaps.  Cyanobacteria in the late archea caused a much greater extinction event and global change than we have yet.   Humans only think they are such hot stuff because they are human. 
"
.........

"
.........


Exactly.

Scientists spent a century trying to define a trait that is unique to humans.  As far as I know, the only truly human signature lies in our DNA and perhaps in the degree of our accomplishments.  Perhaps.  Cyanobacteria in the late archea caused a much greater extinction event and global change than we have yet.   Humans only think they are such hot stuff because they are human. 
"
.........

Im not going by that.

All my life Ive been an *empath*.  I can feel the feelings of others, including animals.

One day, trapping gophers on the farm with my cousin, with a gloved hand I flipped a gopher over on his back and prepared to run him through with the stake from the trap.  I was 9 or 10 at the time.  I certainly wouldnt do that today.  I just wouldnt be there.

He looked up at me with an expression, and feeling, that said, *Oh, you SOB !!*  I felt bad about it, but I was doing a job, clearing the fields of damaging hole makers, so I killed him.

Looking back, the gopher did not harm the field, and I did not murder him.  We both just did what we were there to do, pleasant or not.

My cousin still has those traps, and still traps gophers, but I dont think I have gone with him since that day, although I have never said anything was wrong with it.

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Reply from Joe Chip
Jul.29.2012
06:58AM EDT 
vertical line A jobsworth murder.
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Reply from leoj99
Jul.29.2012
11:26AM EDT 
vertical line I think that rising above the gopers not rising above humanity....S"
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Reply from frozenaomi
Jul.29.2012
06:16PM EDT 
Email frozenaomi
vertical line

Looking back, the gopher did not harm the field, and I did not murder him.  We both just did what we were there to do, pleasant or not.

My cousin still has those traps, and still traps gophers, but I dont think I have gone with him since that day, although I have never said anything was wrong with it.

"
.........

I don't know about harming the field but the gophers were (I assume) complicating your cousin's operation in that field.  And you did murder the gopher.  Holes were dug and spikes were driven (assuming we are, for the moment, accepting the past as existing).  Whether or not that was wrong or not is more complicated.  In the end what was was.  I have never noticed reality to hold a sense of morals and so any moral application would come from an anthrocentric (or perhaps a geomyidaecentric) view.  Or maybe that is my own bias?  I don't know.
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Reply from starduster
Jul.30.2012
04:59AM EDT 
vertical line Quote: "

Looking back, the gopher did not harm the field, and I did not murder him.  We both just did what we were there to do, pleasant or not.

My cousin still has those traps, and still traps gophers, but I dont think I have gone with him since that day, although I have never said anything was wrong with it.

"
.........

I don't know about harming the field but the gophers were (I assume) complicating your cousin's operation in that field.  And you did murder the gopher.  Holes were dug and spikes were driven (assuming we are, for the moment, accepting the past as existing).  Whether or not that was wrong or not is more complicated.  In the end what was was.  I have never noticed reality to hold a sense of morals and so any moral application would come from an anthrocentric (or perhaps a geomyidaecentric) view.  Or maybe that is my own bias?  I don't know.
"
.........

"
.........

I don't know about harming the field but the gophers were (I assume) complicating your cousin's operation in that field.  And you did murder the gopher.  Holes were dug and spikes were driven (assuming we are, for the moment, accepting the past as existing).  Whether or not that was wrong or not is more complicated.  In the end what was was.  I have never noticed reality to hold a sense of morals and so any moral application would come from an anthrocentric (or perhaps a geomyidaecentric) view.  Or maybe that is my own bias?  I don't know.
"
.........

I was aluding to the Zen addage:  The rat does not steal, and the cat does not murder.  Each simply acts according to its nature.

The gopher was a varmint in the field, and I was a young boy collecting gopher tails.

But I have not forgotten that particular gopher, or what he showed me, which has given me a better perspective of animal life, and my place within it.

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Reply from starduster
Jul.30.2012
05:09AM EDT 
vertical line

I was aluding to the Zen addage:  The rat does not steal, and the cat does not murder.  Each simply acts according to its nature.

The gopher was a varmint in the field, and I was a young boy collecting gopher tails.

But I have not forgotten that particular gopher, or what he showed me, which has given me a better perspective of animal life, and my place within it.

------------------------------------------------

I regret to say I still had more to learn.  I didnt apply this lesson to other forms of life, ie:  insects and plants, until I had similar events with them too.

One day, just after Bic lighters had come out, a friend and I thought they made great flame throwers.  We were using them on some dragonflies down by the lake.

Suddenly, one of the dragonflies that I had just burned flew around and landed on my hand, and what I *felt* from it was, *Look what you did.*

One of its wings was very badly burned.  Obviously its ability to survive was shot.  I killed it as quickly as I could and resolved not to harm any more animals unnecessarily, of any type.

I also used to grow my own marijuana.  After six months they were too big for he 5 gal pots they were in and needed to be harvested. 

Before I cut them down, I would thank them, and then enter a *silence* to listen to them.  I felt different things from all of them.  Each had its own nature and personality.  Some were spartan about the whole thing and would essentially say, *Lets do it*, while others would beg for their lives.

Killing is a part of life.  Sometimes it is the proper thing to do, and other times it is unnecessary.  Whether it is right or wrong depends on the circumstances.  Im not for it or against it, just as I am not for living or dying in and of themselves.  It depends on the circumstances.  Each case must be evaluated on its own merits.

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Reply from Joe Chip
Jul.30.2012
07:18AM EDT 
vertical line My nature is to save.
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Reply from starduster
Jul.31.2012
06:03AM EDT 
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Quote: "My nature is to save. "
.........

Very fortunate. 

Mine is to kill.  But not to harm.  I go from wishing no harm, to wanting to kill in one jump, no middle ground. 

It scares me to know this can happen faster than I can stop it when I am attacked.  Ive had some close calls.

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Reply from Joe Chip
Jul.31.2012
06:24AM EDT 
vertical line I kill to save.
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