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  The master Bankei's talks were attended not only by Zen students but by persons of all ranks and sects. He never quoted sutras not indulged in scholastic dissertations. Instead, his words were spoken directly from his heart to the hearts of... continue...

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→→→→ vertical line TOPIC: THE YOU
vertical line Posted on Aug.08.2012 @ 06:41AM EDT by IZIZIZ
I am trying to think of some-thing that 'the you' will never know.
Go to Latest Reply   Reply to this Topic
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Reply from Joe Chip
Aug.08.2012
06:43AM EDT 
vertical line Do you think you're making all this up?
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 140571
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Reply from Woodsman
Aug.08.2012
08:49AM EDT 
Email Woodsman
vertical line 12-12-12
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 140577
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Reply from so_teh
Aug.08.2012
06:50PM EDT 
Email so_teh
vertical line Am Way
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 140604
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Reply from Avisitor
Aug.08.2012
07:10PM EDT 
Email Avisitor
vertical line 12-21-12
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 140614
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Reply from Joe Chip
Aug.09.2012
08:15AM EDT 
vertical line 11-11-11
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 140671
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Reply from justin
Aug.09.2012
03:37PM EDT 
Email justin
vertical line What is this you of which u speak?
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 140689
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Reply from nibble
Aug.09.2012
03:55PM EDT 
vertical line ZEN OPERA, ACT 2
zzz zzzz zzz

vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 140690
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Reply from Joe Chip
Aug.10.2012
10:05AM EDT 
vertical line Bugs Bunny, I am the you that speaks not its name.
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 140713
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Reply from nibble
Aug.10.2012
07:44PM EDT 
vertical line http://cdn.superbwallpapers.com/wallpapers/cartoons/thats-all-folks-7172-400x250.jpg
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 140739
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Reply from Chryseis
Aug.10.2012
08:28PM EDT 
vertical line 'the You' will never know pain
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 140742
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Reply from IZIZIZ
Sep.01.2012
09:47AM EDT 
vertical line

How are any of the responsorial postings relevant if they are: neither the answer, nor are they not the answer.

What do you reckon? 

vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 141879
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Reply from simple
Sep.01.2012
09:55AM EDT 
Email simple
vertical line 'the you' of course.
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 141880
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Reply from Woodsman
Sep.01.2012
10:33AM EDT 
Email Woodsman
vertical line feelings
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 141881
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Reply from simple
Sep.01.2012
10:59AM EDT 
Email simple
vertical line feelings
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 141882
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Reply from Riverstone
Sep.06.2012
03:46PM EDT 
vertical line That is pretty easy enough, using simple logic. The "You" or the "I" can not perceive the experience of being one with "All".
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 142165
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Reply from simple
Sep.06.2012
03:55PM EDT 
Email simple
vertical line Sir, This is my problem.using simple logic.out of this I can not think anything.
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 142166
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Reply from Joe Chip
Sep.06.2012
05:26PM EDT 
vertical line You is the theory, heavy weather is the practice.
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 142167
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Reply from simple
Sep.06.2012
06:28PM EDT 
Email simple
vertical line Do you like theories? I like bright ones.
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 142173
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Reply from boymonk
Sep.06.2012
10:07PM EDT 
vertical line Quote: "That is pretty easy enough, using simple logic. The "You" or the "I" can not perceive the experience of being one with "All". "
.........

You're using linear thought to solve a chaotic problem. HAHA!!
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 142182
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Reply from Joe Chip
Sep.07.2012
06:46AM EDT 
vertical line Toxicrap - nothing grows.
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 142221
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Reply from Avisitor
Sep.07.2012
06:54AM EDT 
Email Avisitor
vertical line Original Topic: The You
I am trying to think of some-thing that 'the you' will never know.


In truth, it is you that I will never know.
Hiding behind words and ideas, I wonder who is it.

It is said when the epiphany happens then one will see others as them selves.
Well, I know me and now, I don't think I want to know you.

Sorry, it has been a rough day.
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 142225
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Reply from Joe Chip
Sep.07.2012
06:55AM EDT 
vertical line You whine a lot. You vomit a lot. But you don't see.
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 142226
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Reply from Avisitor
Sep.07.2012
07:54AM EDT 
Email Avisitor
vertical line Quote: "You whine a lot. You vomit a lot. But you don't see."
.........
No whining, no vomit, just sense. But you don't see ... hahaha
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 142234
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Reply from Joe Chip
Sep.07.2012
07:57AM EDT 
vertical line oInKahah
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 142236
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Reply from esoteric
Sep.07.2012
12:10PM EDT 
vertical line See Joe Chip whining and vomiting.
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 142246
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Reply from Joe Chip
Sep.07.2012
12:13PM EDT 
vertical line I'll just watch Esoteric crawl.
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 142247
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Reply from esoteric
Sep.07.2012
12:31PM EDT 
vertical line Quote: "I'll just watch Esoteric crawl."
.........

You imagine Esoteric crawling.
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 142261
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Reply from Joe Chip
Sep.07.2012
12:32PM EDT 
vertical line Feel it.
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 142262
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Reply from esoteric
Sep.07.2012
12:39PM EDT 
vertical line Quote: "Feel it."
.........

I feel what I feel. It has nothing to do with the crawling in your imagination.
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 142264
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Reply from Joe Chip
Sep.07.2012
12:45PM EDT 
vertical line What a TANGLED imagination you do weave.
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 142268
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Reply from esoteric
Sep.07.2012
12:49PM EDT 
vertical line Quote: "What a TANGLED imagination you do weave. "
.........

Joe Chip is weaving tangled imaginations. I'm just sipping coffee and typing.
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 142270
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Reply from Joe Chip
Sep.07.2012
12:50PM EDT 
vertical line I've got work to do.
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 142271
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Reply from esoteric
Sep.07.2012
12:57PM EDT 
vertical line Quote: "I've got work to do."
.........

Good man. Chat with you later. :-)
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 142273
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Reply from Joe Chip
Sep.07.2012
01:44PM EDT 
vertical line To this there are only two replies.
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 142275
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Reply from so_teh
Sep.08.2012
12:01AM EDT 
Email so_teh
vertical line Interdependant Origination.
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 142316
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Reply from so_teh
Sep.08.2012
12:02AM EDT 
Email so_teh
vertical line Interbeing.
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 142317
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Reply from starduster
Sep.08.2012
05:36AM EDT 
vertical line

Quote: "That is pretty easy enough, using simple logic. The "You" or the "I" can not perceive the experience of being one with "All". "
.........

It is what It is, and It aint what It aint.

The only difference betwen Nirvana and Satori seems to be

whether or not you believe that to be your own conscious choice.

But then you would have to take personal responsibility for everything,

so the difference is likely whether or not you are willing t do that.

vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 142318
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Reply from esoteric
Sep.08.2012
10:29AM EDT 
vertical line Quote: "

Quote: "That is pretty easy enough, using simple logic. The "You" or the "I" can not perceive the experience of being one with "All". "
.........

It is what It is, and It aint what It aint.

The only difference betwen Nirvana and Satori seems to be

whether or not you believe that to be your own conscious choice.

But then you would have to take personal responsibility for everything,

so the difference is likely whether or not you are willing t do that.

"
.........

Your ideas about nirvana and satori have little to do with nirvana or satori. Little to do even with the definitions ascribed to them in the teachings over thousands of years. What are you talking about??? Your own ideas.
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 142332
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Reply from starduster
Sep.09.2012
05:21AM EDT 
vertical line Quote: "Quote: "

Quote: "That is pretty easy enough, using simple logic. The "You" or the "I" can not perceive the experience of being one with "All". "
.........

It is what It is, and It aint what It aint.

The only difference betwen Nirvana and Satori seems to be

whether or not you believe that to be your own conscious choice.

But then you would have to take personal responsibility for everything,

so the difference is likely whether or not you are willing t do that.

"
.........

Your ideas about nirvana and satori have little to do with nirvana or satori. Little to do even with the definitions ascribed to them in the teachings over thousands of years. What are you talking about??? Your own ideas.
"
.........

"
.........

Your ideas about nirvana and satori have little to do with nirvana or satori. Little to do even with the definitions ascribed to them in the teachings over thousands of years. What are you talking about??? Your own ideas.
"
.........

The danger of knowing, or thinking that you know,

is that it is so damned limiting that you are bound to be wrong.

But often, as with in Science, there is no admission of being wrong,

just the immediate adoption of the new *right*.

Like when DNA unlimately showed that Neandertals and Cro Magnons were not related,

we did not hear any great singing about how the theories of evolution from Neandertal to Cro Magnon had been disproved.  They just tore down the posters of the progression from ape to man and started afresh as if nothing had happened.  Convenient.

With knowledge there is no understanding,

and with understanding there is no knowledge.

You cant be wrong until you settle on a conclusion,

and then its just a matter of time.

vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 142381
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Reply from starduster
Sep.09.2012
07:23AM EDT 
vertical line

Your ideas about nirvana and satori have little to do with nirvana or satori. Little to do even with the definitions ascribed to them in the teachings over thousands of years. What are you talking about??? Your own ideas. (esoteric)

------------------------------------

Ive heard a few satori stories, and no two alike, yet all lead to the same *undertstanding* of *Things as It is*, aka *dependent arising*.

You do not have *understanding*.  You have knowledge that you have learned and accumulated over time, and therefore feel that you have accomplished something.  You have integrated religious history into your memory circuits.

You dont know nothing yet.  (pun intended)

If what someone says doesnt fit with your parroting of what you have learned then you dont get it, dont understand it, and therefore it must be wrong, and of course then you must be right.  The bottom line is that you must be right.

vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 142383
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Reply from simple
Sep.09.2012
09:28AM EDT 
Email simple
vertical line I beg your pardon?
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 142386
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Reply from esoteric
Sep.09.2012
10:15AM EDT 
vertical line Quote: "

Your ideas about nirvana and satori have little to do with nirvana or satori. Little to do even with the definitions ascribed to them in the teachings over thousands of years. What are you talking about??? Your own ideas. (esoteric)

------------------------------------

Ive heard a few satori stories, and no two alike, yet all lead to the same *undertstanding* of *Things as It is*, aka *dependent arising*.

You do not have *understanding*.  You have knowledge that you have learned and accumulated over time, and therefore feel that you have accomplished something.  You have integrated religious history into your memory circuits.

You dont know nothing yet.  (pun intended)

If what someone says doesnt fit with your parroting of what you have learned then you dont get it, dont understand it, and therefore it must be wrong, and of course then you must be right.  The bottom line is that you must be right.

"
.........

You're still talking about your own ideas.
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 142397
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Reply from esoteric
Sep.09.2012
10:17AM EDT 
vertical line Quote: "Quote: "Quote: "

Quote: "That is pretty easy enough, using simple logic. The "You" or the "I" can not perceive the experience of being one with "All". "
.........

It is what It is, and It aint what It aint.

The only difference betwen Nirvana and Satori seems to be

whether or not you believe that to be your own conscious choice.

But then you would have to take personal responsibility for everything,

so the difference is likely whether or not you are willing t do that.

"
.........

Your ideas about nirvana and satori have little to do with nirvana or satori. Little to do even with the definitions ascribed to them in the teachings over thousands of years. What are you talking about??? Your own ideas.
"
.........

"
.........

Your ideas about nirvana and satori have little to do with nirvana or satori. Little to do even with the definitions ascribed to them in the teachings over thousands of years. What are you talking about??? Your own ideas.
"
.........

The danger of knowing, or thinking that you know,

is that it is so damned limiting that you are bound to be wrong.

But often, as with in Science, there is no admission of being wrong,

just the immediate adoption of the new *right*.

Like when DNA unlimately showed that Neandertals and Cro Magnons were not related,

we did not hear any great singing about how the theories of evolution from Neandertal to Cro Magnon had been disproved.  They just tore down the posters of the progression from ape to man and started afresh as if nothing had happened.  Convenient.

With knowledge there is no understanding,

and with understanding there is no knowledge.

You cant be wrong until you settle on a conclusion,

and then its just a matter of time.

"
.........

Checking, checking, defining, defining, describing, describing, explaining, explaining...

Have a cup of tea, man. Be at peace.
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 142399
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Reply from Joe Chip
Sep.09.2012
10:17AM EDT 
vertical line So what?
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 142398
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Reply from Joe Chip
Sep.09.2012
10:35AM EDT 
vertical line Check One.
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 142405
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Reply from starduster
Sep.10.2012
04:07AM EDT 
vertical line Quote: "Quote: "

Your ideas about nirvana and satori have little to do with nirvana or satori. Little to do even with the definitions ascribed to them in the teachings over thousands of years. What are you talking about??? Your own ideas. (esoteric)

------------------------------------

Ive heard a few satori stories, and no two alike, yet all lead to the same *undertstanding* of *Things as It is*, aka *dependent arising*.

You do not have *understanding*.  You have knowledge that you have learned and accumulated over time, and therefore feel that you have accomplished something.  You have integrated religious history into your memory circuits.

You dont know nothing yet.  (pun intended)

If what someone says doesnt fit with your parroting of what you have learned then you dont get it, dont understand it, and therefore it must be wrong, and of course then you must be right.  The bottom line is that you must be right.

"
.........

You're still talking about your own ideas.
"
.........

"
.........

You're still talking about your own ideas.
"
.........

Maybe thats the problem, esoteric, you dont have any ideas of your own.

What you have is your own interpretation of others ideas.

And thats what you should have.  So, no problem.

vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 142423
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Reply from Avisitor
Sep.10.2012
08:45AM EDT 
Email Avisitor
vertical line Quote: "Maybe thats the problem, esoteric, you dont have any ideas of your own.

What you have is your own interpretation of others ideas.

And thats what you should have.  So, no problem.

"
.........

I have done that. Gurgled my ideas up with a touch of whatever was relevant for that day.
Now, it doesn't demand to be formulated or solidified. It flows from a place of utter stupidity ... my gut. And, so when you talk about things I don't know, I will listen and then let it go. No sense in trying to learn what can't be learned yet.
I do know that what feels real hits my guts and that makes all the difference.
So, what does my gut tell me now ... hahaha ... it tells me that I need to fart ... hahaha
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 142427
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Reply from Joe Chip
Sep.10.2012
09:32AM EDT 
vertical line I read all your posts, but you don't say anything.
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 142432
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Reply from Avisitor
Sep.10.2012
09:55AM EDT 
Email Avisitor
vertical line Quote: "I read all your posts, but you don't say anything. "
.........

I can say the same ting about all your post ... hahaha
You don't say anything either ... so what? What do you want?
But, you won't see just a bunch of little sound bites or snippets from me.
So tell me what exactly is it that you contribute???
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 142433
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Reply from Joe Chip
Sep.10.2012
10:01AM EDT 
vertical line I'm just responding to your concern that I don't have any time to read what you have to say.
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 142437
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Reply from esoteric
Sep.10.2012
11:03AM EDT 
vertical line Quote: "Quote: "Quote: "

Your ideas about nirvana and satori have little to do with nirvana or satori. Little to do even with the definitions ascribed to them in the teachings over thousands of years. What are you talking about??? Your own ideas. (esoteric)

------------------------------------

Ive heard a few satori stories, and no two alike, yet all lead to the same *undertstanding* of *Things as It is*, aka *dependent arising*.

You do not have *understanding*.  You have knowledge that you have learned and accumulated over time, and therefore feel that you have accomplished something.  You have integrated religious history into your memory circuits.

You dont know nothing yet.  (pun intended)

If what someone says doesnt fit with your parroting of what you have learned then you dont get it, dont understand it, and therefore it must be wrong, and of course then you must be right.  The bottom line is that you must be right.

"
.........

You're still talking about your own ideas.
"
.........

"
.........

You're still talking about your own ideas.
"
.........

Maybe thats the problem, esoteric, you dont have any ideas of your own.

What you have is your own interpretation of others ideas.

And thats what you should have.  So, no problem.

"
.........

You still have a big problem. Take a look at your ideas. Then throw them away when you get finished looking.


vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 142450
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Reply from Woodsman
Sep.10.2012
11:44AM EDT 
Email Woodsman
vertical line Quote: "I read all your posts, but you don't say anything. "
.........

there was no me in it, which make me out of ___. T .___
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 142451
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Reply from Avisitor
Sep.10.2012
12:22PM EDT 
Email Avisitor
vertical line Quote: "I'm just responding to your concern that I don't have any time to read what you have to say. "
.........
Sorry, I don't believe I ever said that I'm worried that you don't have time to read my posts.
Anyway, my apologies for any misunderstanding.
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 142454
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Reply from starduster
Sep.11.2012
05:00AM EDT 
vertical line Quote: "Quote: "Quote: "Quote: "

Your ideas about nirvana and satori have little to do with nirvana or satori. Little to do even with the definitions ascribed to them in the teachings over thousands of years. What are you talking about??? Your own ideas. (esoteric)

------------------------------------

Ive heard a few satori stories, and no two alike, yet all lead to the same *undertstanding* of *Things as It is*, aka *dependent arising*.

You do not have *understanding*.  You have knowledge that you have learned and accumulated over time, and therefore feel that you have accomplished something.  You have integrated religious history into your memory circuits.

You dont know nothing yet.  (pun intended)

If what someone says doesnt fit with your parroting of what you have learned then you dont get it, dont understand it, and therefore it must be wrong, and of course then you must be right.  The bottom line is that you must be right.

"
.........

You're still talking about your own ideas.
"
.........

"
.........

You're still talking about your own ideas.
"
.........

Maybe thats the problem, esoteric, you dont have any ideas of your own.

What you have is your own interpretation of others ideas.

And thats what you should have.  So, no problem.

"
.........

You still have a big problem. Take a look at your ideas. Then throw them away when you get finished looking.


"
.........

"
.........

You still have a big problem. Take a look at your ideas. Then throw them away when you get finished looking.


"
.........

Oh, clearly I stand *corrected* again, by a precocious monk who does not respect his elders.

My ideas *have nothing to do with nirvana or satori*.  I would agree with that.  Its all an illusion, except that which you believe in, which is delusion.  Nirvana or satori help you to pick your delusions more carefully, thats all.  Someone said to me here once that satori was like remembering a sandwich that he ate 25 years before. 

Its all just something to do.  Im just dealing with what comes my way, in my own way.

vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 142480
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Reply from Joe Chip
Sep.11.2012
05:46AM EDT 
vertical line Quote: "Quote: "I'm just responding to your concern that I don't have any time to read what you have to say. "
.........
Sorry, I don't believe I ever said that I'm worried that you don't have time to read my posts.
Anyway, my apologies for any misunderstanding.
"
.........

NO CREDIT.
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 142484
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Reply from esoteric
Sep.11.2012
11:43AM EDT 
vertical line Quote: "Quote: "Quote: "Quote: "Quote: "

Your ideas about nirvana and satori have little to do with nirvana or satori. Little to do even with the definitions ascribed to them in the teachings over thousands of years. What are you talking about??? Your own ideas. (esoteric)

------------------------------------

Ive heard a few satori stories, and no two alike, yet all lead to the same *undertstanding* of *Things as It is*, aka *dependent arising*.

You do not have *understanding*.  You have knowledge that you have learned and accumulated over time, and therefore feel that you have accomplished something.  You have integrated religious history into your memory circuits.

You dont know nothing yet.  (pun intended)

If what someone says doesnt fit with your parroting of what you have learned then you dont get it, dont understand it, and therefore it must be wrong, and of course then you must be right.  The bottom line is that you must be right.

"
.........

You're still talking about your own ideas.
"
.........

"
.........

You're still talking about your own ideas.
"
.........

Maybe thats the problem, esoteric, you dont have any ideas of your own.

What you have is your own interpretation of others ideas.

And thats what you should have.  So, no problem.

"
.........

You still have a big problem. Take a look at your ideas. Then throw them away when you get finished looking.


"
.........

"
.........

You still have a big problem. Take a look at your ideas. Then throw them away when you get finished looking.


"
.........

Oh, clearly I stand *corrected* again, by a precocious monk who does not respect his elders.

My ideas *have nothing to do with nirvana or satori*.  I would agree with that.  Its all an illusion, except that which you believe in, which is delusion.  Nirvana or satori help you to pick your delusions more carefully, thats all.  Someone said to me here once that satori was like remembering a sandwich that he ate 25 years before. 

Its all just something to do.  Im just dealing with what comes my way, in my own way.

"
.........

There is no delusion in either nirvana (Sanskrit - "blown out") or satori (Japanese - "seeing one's nature or essence"). What someone told you about "remembering" has nothing to do with nirvana or satori. It seems you would rather remember and imagine than to see completely right now. That makes your "something to do" still a big problem. So just keep dealing with it in your own way for as long as you need to, until you no longer need to.

vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 142521
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Reply from starduster
Sep.12.2012
05:22AM EDT 
vertical line Quote: "Quote: "Quote: "Quote: "Quote: "Quote: "

Your ideas about nirvana and satori have little to do with nirvana or satori. Little to do even with the definitions ascribed to them in the teachings over thousands of years. What are you talking about??? Your own ideas. (esoteric)

------------------------------------

Ive heard a few satori stories, and no two alike, yet all lead to the same *undertstanding* of *Things as It is*, aka *dependent arising*.

You do not have *understanding*.  You have knowledge that you have learned and accumulated over time, and therefore feel that you have accomplished something.  You have integrated religious history into your memory circuits.

You dont know nothing yet.  (pun intended)

If what someone says doesnt fit with your parroting of what you have learned then you dont get it, dont understand it, and therefore it must be wrong, and of course then you must be right.  The bottom line is that you must be right.

"
.........

You're still talking about your own ideas.
"
.........

"
.........

You're still talking about your own ideas.
"
.........

Maybe thats the problem, esoteric, you dont have any ideas of your own.

What you have is your own interpretation of others ideas.

And thats what you should have.  So, no problem.

"
.........

You still have a big problem. Take a look at your ideas. Then throw them away when you get finished looking.


"
.........

"
.........

You still have a big problem. Take a look at your ideas. Then throw them away when you get finished looking.


"
.........

Oh, clearly I stand *corrected* again, by a precocious monk who does not respect his elders.

My ideas *have nothing to do with nirvana or satori*.  I would agree with that.  Its all an illusion, except that which you believe in, which is delusion.  Nirvana or satori help you to pick your delusions more carefully, thats all.  Someone said to me here once that satori was like remembering a sandwich that he ate 25 years before. 

Its all just something to do.  Im just dealing with what comes my way, in my own way.

"
.........

There is no delusion in either nirvana (Sanskrit - "blown out") or satori (Japanese - "seeing one's nature or essence"). What someone told you about "remembering" has nothing to do with nirvana or satori. It seems you would rather remember and imagine than to see completely right now. That makes your "something to do" still a big problem. So just keep dealing with it in your own way for as long as you need to, until you no longer need to.
"
.........

"
.........

There is no delusion in either nirvana (Sanskrit - "blown out") or satori (Japanese - "seeing one's nature or essence"). What someone told you about "remembering" has nothing to do with nirvana or satori. It seems you would rather remember and imagine than to see completely right now. That makes your "something to do" still a big problem. So just keep dealing with it in your own way for as long as you need to, until you no longer need to.
"
.........

You know about nirvana or satori because you have learned about them in teachings thousands of years old.

I only know what I have experienced myself, although I too have read about them, and talked with others who have also had experiences similar to my own.

So you are *knowledgeable*.  Good for you.  Id still rather have one experience than a thousand pages of text.

vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 142550
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Reply from IZIZIZ
Sep.12.2012
07:50AM EDT 
vertical line One day Tokusan went down toward the dining room, holding his bowls.
???????????????????????????
Seppo met him and asked, "Where are you off to with your bowls? The bell has not rung, and the drum has not sounded." Tokusan turned and went back to his room.
?????? ?????????????
Seppo mentioned this to Ganto, who remarked, "Tokusan is renowned, but he does not know the last word."
????????????????????
Tokusan heard about this remark and sent his attendant to fetch Ganto. "You do not approve of me?" he asked.
???????
Ganto whispered his meaning.
?????????????????
Tokusan said nothing at the time, but the next day he ascended the rostrum, and behold! he was very different from usual!
???????????????????????
Ganto, going toward the front of the hall, clapped his hands and laughed loudly, saying, "Congratulations! Our old man has got hold of the last word!
???????????
From now on, nobody in this whole country can outdo him!"

Mumon's Comment
????????????????????
As for the last word, neither Ganto nor Tokusan has ever dreamed of it!
????????????
When you look into the matter, you find they are like puppets on the shelf!

Mumon's Verse ??
?????
?????
?????
?????
If you realize the first,
You master the last.
The first and the last
Are not one word.
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 142554
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Reply from Joe Chip
Sep.12.2012
08:03AM EDT 
vertical line Fan yourself.

vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 142555
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Reply from esoteric
Sep.12.2012
09:16AM EDT 
vertical line Quote: "Quote: "Quote: "Quote: "Quote: "Quote: "Quote: "

Your ideas about nirvana and satori have little to do with nirvana or satori. Little to do even with the definitions ascribed to them in the teachings over thousands of years. What are you talking about??? Your own ideas. (esoteric)

------------------------------------

Ive heard a few satori stories, and no two alike, yet all lead to the same *undertstanding* of *Things as It is*, aka *dependent arising*.

You do not have *understanding*.  You have knowledge that you have learned and accumulated over time, and therefore feel that you have accomplished something.  You have integrated religious history into your memory circuits.

You dont know nothing yet.  (pun intended)

If what someone says doesnt fit with your parroting of what you have learned then you dont get it, dont understand it, and therefore it must be wrong, and of course then you must be right.  The bottom line is that you must be right.

"
.........

You're still talking about your own ideas.
"
.........

"
.........

You're still talking about your own ideas.
"
.........

Maybe thats the problem, esoteric, you dont have any ideas of your own.

What you have is your own interpretation of others ideas.

And thats what you should have.  So, no problem.

"
.........

You still have a big problem. Take a look at your ideas. Then throw them away when you get finished looking.


"
.........

"
.........

You still have a big problem. Take a look at your ideas. Then throw them away when you get finished looking.


"
.........

Oh, clearly I stand *corrected* again, by a precocious monk who does not respect his elders.

My ideas *have nothing to do with nirvana or satori*.  I would agree with that.  Its all an illusion, except that which you believe in, which is delusion.  Nirvana or satori help you to pick your delusions more carefully, thats all.  Someone said to me here once that satori was like remembering a sandwich that he ate 25 years before. 

Its all just something to do.  Im just dealing with what comes my way, in my own way.

"
.........

There is no delusion in either nirvana (Sanskrit - "blown out") or satori (Japanese - "seeing one's nature or essence"). What someone told you about "remembering" has nothing to do with nirvana or satori. It seems you would rather remember and imagine than to see completely right now. That makes your "something to do" still a big problem. So just keep dealing with it in your own way for as long as you need to, until you no longer need to.
"
.........

"
.........

There is no delusion in either nirvana (Sanskrit - "blown out") or satori (Japanese - "seeing one's nature or essence"). What someone told you about "remembering" has nothing to do with nirvana or satori. It seems you would rather remember and imagine than to see completely right now. That makes your "something to do" still a big problem. So just keep dealing with it in your own way for as long as you need to, until you no longer need to.
"
.........

You know about nirvana or satori because you have learned about them in teachings thousands of years old.

I only know what I have experienced myself, although I too have read about them, and talked with others who have also had experiences similar to my own.

So you are *knowledgeable*.  Good for you.  Id still rather have one experience than a thousand pages of text.

"
.........

I'm not knowledgable. I don't know any experiences of nirvana or satori. I only know one experience. This one. And I don't know what it is. What is it? Where did it come from? Where does it go? What is its purpose?

I have no answers to those questions. It is its own answer. But you have lots of your own wordy answers. You will answer all of those questions as if you know, at the drop of a hat. Lots and lots and lots of answers. Which one is the right one???
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 142562
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horizontal line
Reply from starduster
Sep.12.2012
10:23AM EDT 
vertical line Quote: "Quote: "Quote: "Quote: "Quote: "Quote: "Quote: "Quote: "

Your ideas about nirvana and satori have little to do with nirvana or satori. Little to do even with the definitions ascribed to them in the teachings over thousands of years. What are you talking about??? Your own ideas. (esoteric)

------------------------------------

Ive heard a few satori stories, and no two alike, yet all lead to the same *undertstanding* of *Things as It is*, aka *dependent arising*.

You do not have *understanding*.  You have knowledge that you have learned and accumulated over time, and therefore feel that you have accomplished something.  You have integrated religious history into your memory circuits.

You dont know nothing yet.  (pun intended)

If what someone says doesnt fit with your parroting of what you have learned then you dont get it, dont understand it, and therefore it must be wrong, and of course then you must be right.  The bottom line is that you must be right.

"
.........

You're still talking about your own ideas.
"
.........

"
.........

You're still talking about your own ideas.
"
.........

Maybe thats the problem, esoteric, you dont have any ideas of your own.

What you have is your own interpretation of others ideas.

And thats what you should have.  So, no problem.

"
.........

You still have a big problem. Take a look at your ideas. Then throw them away when you get finished looking.


"
.........

"
.........

You still have a big problem. Take a look at your ideas. Then throw them away when you get finished looking.


"
.........

Oh, clearly I stand *corrected* again, by a precocious monk who does not respect his elders.

My ideas *have nothing to do with nirvana or satori*.  I would agree with that.  Its all an illusion, except that which you believe in, which is delusion.  Nirvana or satori help you to pick your delusions more carefully, thats all.  Someone said to me here once that satori was like remembering a sandwich that he ate 25 years before. 

Its all just something to do.  Im just dealing with what comes my way, in my own way.

"
.........

There is no delusion in either nirvana (Sanskrit - "blown out") or satori (Japanese - "seeing one's nature or essence"). What someone told you about "remembering" has nothing to do with nirvana or satori. It seems you would rather remember and imagine than to see completely right now. That makes your "something to do" still a big problem. So just keep dealing with it in your own way for as long as you need to, until you no longer need to.
"
.........

"
.........

There is no delusion in either nirvana (Sanskrit - "blown out") or satori (Japanese - "seeing one's nature or essence"). What someone told you about "remembering" has nothing to do with nirvana or satori. It seems you would rather remember and imagine than to see completely right now. That makes your "something to do" still a big problem. So just keep dealing with it in your own way for as long as you need to, until you no longer need to.
"
.........

You know about nirvana or satori because you have learned about them in teachings thousands of years old.

I only know what I have experienced myself, although I too have read about them, and talked with others who have also had experiences similar to my own.

So you are *knowledgeable*.  Good for you.  Id still rather have one experience than a thousand pages of text.

"
.........

I'm not knowledgable. I don't know any experiences of nirvana or satori. I only know one experience. This one. And I don't know what it is. What is it? Where did it come from? Where does it go? What is its purpose?

I have no answers to those questions. It is its own answer. But you have lots of your own wordy answers. You will answer all of those questions as if you know, at the drop of a hat. Lots and lots and lots of answers. Which one is the right one???
"
.........

"
.........

I'm not knowledgable. I don't know any experiences of nirvana or satori. I only know one experience. This one. And I don't know what it is. What is it? Where did it come from? Where does it go? What is its purpose?

I have no answers to those questions. It is its own answer. But you have lots of your own wordy answers. You will answer all of those questions as if you know, at the drop of a hat. Lots and lots and lots of answers. Which one is the right one???
"
.........

youre reliable.  I can always count on you for an argument, because just as you have always been all your life, you must be right !!  Its a compulsion.

I could be wrong just going by what I have experienced.  Even though others have had similar experiences.  I only know of one text that discusses what happens with a monk after satori, which is Zen in the Art of Archery by Eugene Herrigel, and which seems to correspond with my own subsequent meditations. 

I read Herrigel before satori, years before, and it made no sense to me at that time.  Only when I came back to it after awakening did it add up, and then I became interested in Zen.  Then I came to Zenguide Forum looking for other awakened people, and have found a few, here and elsewhere. 

They agree with me in theory and with you in practice, so which of us is right ?  I agree with you in practice too, Im just saying that it is not all about practice.  A train has a locomotive, cars, and a track, but without somewhere to go, or even not go, all the component parts are meaningless.  Practice is just a function.  Its what comes to you in practice that means something.

So what is the right answer ?  I dont believe there is a right answer.  It may be that there is only the *understanding* that there is no right answer.

Einstein said the answer was *energy*, everything is made of energy.  Maybe that is the right answer.  He was pretty smart you know, but not infallible.  He advocated Socialism in Germany, but when the National Socialist Part took over (Nazis) he had to flee to the US for protection.

I dont even think *energy* is the right answer.  Thats just one of an infinite number of possibilities that make all answers stop short.  What is that which can be anything?  What is its nature ?  What is its essence ?  Id say, *Nothing in particular*, but that would be just another short sighted answer, Im sure.

vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 142563
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Reply from Joe Chip
Sep.12.2012
10:30AM EDT 
vertical line How Soon Is Now?
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 142564
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Reply from football
Sep.12.2012
11:30AM EDT 
Email football
vertical line www.youtube.com/watch?v=3MbXcef8JQY
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 142567
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Reply from esoteric
Sep.12.2012
10:53PM EDT 
vertical line Quote: "Quote: "Quote: "Quote: "Quote: "Quote: "Quote: "Quote: "Quote: "

Your ideas about nirvana and satori have little to do with nirvana or satori. Little to do even with the definitions ascribed to them in the teachings over thousands of years. What are you talking about??? Your own ideas. (esoteric)

------------------------------------

Ive heard a few satori stories, and no two alike, yet all lead to the same *undertstanding* of *Things as It is*, aka *dependent arising*.

You do not have *understanding*.  You have knowledge that you have learned and accumulated over time, and therefore feel that you have accomplished something.  You have integrated religious history into your memory circuits.

You dont know nothing yet.  (pun intended)

If what someone says doesnt fit with your parroting of what you have learned then you dont get it, dont understand it, and therefore it must be wrong, and of course then you must be right.  The bottom line is that you must be right.

"
.........

You're still talking about your own ideas.
"
.........

"
.........

You're still talking about your own ideas.
"
.........

Maybe thats the problem, esoteric, you dont have any ideas of your own.

What you have is your own interpretation of others ideas.

And thats what you should have.  So, no problem.

"
.........

You still have a big problem. Take a look at your ideas. Then throw them away when you get finished looking.


"
.........

"
.........

You still have a big problem. Take a look at your ideas. Then throw them away when you get finished looking.


"
.........

Oh, clearly I stand *corrected* again, by a precocious monk who does not respect his elders.

My ideas *have nothing to do with nirvana or satori*.  I would agree with that.  Its all an illusion, except that which you believe in, which is delusion.  Nirvana or satori help you to pick your delusions more carefully, thats all.  Someone said to me here once that satori was like remembering a sandwich that he ate 25 years before. 

Its all just something to do.  Im just dealing with what comes my way, in my own way.

"
.........

There is no delusion in either nirvana (Sanskrit - "blown out") or satori (Japanese - "seeing one's nature or essence"). What someone told you about "remembering" has nothing to do with nirvana or satori. It seems you would rather remember and imagine than to see completely right now. That makes your "something to do" still a big problem. So just keep dealing with it in your own way for as long as you need to, until you no longer need to.
"
.........

"
.........

There is no delusion in either nirvana (Sanskrit - "blown out") or satori (Japanese - "seeing one's nature or essence"). What someone told you about "remembering" has nothing to do with nirvana or satori. It seems you would rather remember and imagine than to see completely right now. That makes your "something to do" still a big problem. So just keep dealing with it in your own way for as long as you need to, until you no longer need to.
"
.........

You know about nirvana or satori because you have learned about them in teachings thousands of years old.

I only know what I have experienced myself, although I too have read about them, and talked with others who have also had experiences similar to my own.

So you are *knowledgeable*.  Good for you.  Id still rather have one experience than a thousand pages of text.

"
.........

I'm not knowledgable. I don't know any experiences of nirvana or satori. I only know one experience. This one. And I don't know what it is. What is it? Where did it come from? Where does it go? What is its purpose?

I have no answers to those questions. It is its own answer. But you have lots of your own wordy answers. You will answer all of those questions as if you know, at the drop of a hat. Lots and lots and lots of answers. Which one is the right one???
"
.........

"
.........

I'm not knowledgable. I don't know any experiences of nirvana or satori. I only know one experience. This one. And I don't know what it is. What is it? Where did it come from? Where does it go? What is its purpose?

I have no answers to those questions. It is its own answer. But you have lots of your own wordy answers. You will answer all of those questions as if you know, at the drop of a hat. Lots and lots and lots of answers. Which one is the right one???
"
.........

youre reliable.  I can always count on you for an argument, because just as you have always been all your life, you must be right !!  Its a compulsion.

I could be wrong just going by what I have experienced.  Even though others have had similar experiences.  I only know of one text that discusses what happens with a monk after satori, which is Zen in the Art of Archery by Eugene Herrigel, and which seems to correspond with my own subsequent meditations. 

I read Herrigel before satori, years before, and it made no sense to me at that time.  Only when I came back to it after awakening did it add up, and then I became interested in Zen.  Then I came to Zenguide Forum looking for other awakened people, and have found a few, here and elsewhere. 

They agree with me in theory and with you in practice, so which of us is right ?  I agree with you in practice too, Im just saying that it is not all about practice.  A train has a locomotive, cars, and a track, but without somewhere to go, or even not go, all the component parts are meaningless.  Practice is just a function.  Its what comes to you in practice that means something.

So what is the right answer ?  I dont believe there is a right answer.  It may be that there is only the *understanding* that there is no right answer.

Einstein said the answer was *energy*, everything is made of energy.  Maybe that is the right answer.  He was pretty smart you know, but not infallible.  He advocated Socialism in Germany, but when the National Socialist Part took over (Nazis) he had to flee to the US for protection.

I dont even think *energy* is the right answer.  Thats just one of an infinite number of possibilities that make all answers stop short.  What is that which can be anything?  What is its nature ?  What is its essence ?  Id say, *Nothing in particular*, but that would be just another short sighted answer, Im sure.

"
.........

More wordy answers. I'm not looking for an argument. Just pointing out that there isn't one. Keep arguing about the answer to "What is this?" all you want to. It's not going anywhere, and it has all the time in the world.

vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 142582
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Reply from Joe Chip
Sep.13.2012
07:41AM EDT 
vertical line The you - all on one big hiding to n. o. thing.
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 142611
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Reply from starduster
Sep.16.2012
06:36AM EDT 
vertical line Quote: "Quote: "Quote: "Quote: "Quote: "Quote: "Quote: "Quote: "Quote: "Quote: "

Your ideas about nirvana and satori have little to do with nirvana or satori. Little to do even with the definitions ascribed to them in the teachings over thousands of years. What are you talking about??? Your own ideas. (esoteric)

------------------------------------

Ive heard a few satori stories, and no two alike, yet all lead to the same *undertstanding* of *Things as It is*, aka *dependent arising*.

You do not have *understanding*.  You have knowledge that you have learned and accumulated over time, and therefore feel that you have accomplished something.  You have integrated religious history into your memory circuits.

You dont know nothing yet.  (pun intended)

If what someone says doesnt fit with your parroting of what you have learned then you dont get it, dont understand it, and therefore it must be wrong, and of course then you must be right.  The bottom line is that you must be right.

"
.........

You're still talking about your own ideas.
"
.........

"
.........

You're still talking about your own ideas.
"
.........

Maybe thats the problem, esoteric, you dont have any ideas of your own.

What you have is your own interpretation of others ideas.

And thats what you should have.  So, no problem.

"
.........

You still have a big problem. Take a look at your ideas. Then throw them away when you get finished looking.


"
.........

"
.........

You still have a big problem. Take a look at your ideas. Then throw them away when you get finished looking.


"
.........

Oh, clearly I stand *corrected* again, by a precocious monk who does not respect his elders.

My ideas *have nothing to do with nirvana or satori*.  I would agree with that.  Its all an illusion, except that which you believe in, which is delusion.  Nirvana or satori help you to pick your delusions more carefully, thats all.  Someone said to me here once that satori was like remembering a sandwich that he ate 25 years before. 

Its all just something to do.  Im just dealing with what comes my way, in my own way.

"
.........

There is no delusion in either nirvana (Sanskrit - "blown out") or satori (Japanese - "seeing one's nature or essence"). What someone told you about "remembering" has nothing to do with nirvana or satori. It seems you would rather remember and imagine than to see completely right now. That makes your "something to do" still a big problem. So just keep dealing with it in your own way for as long as you need to, until you no longer need to.
"
.........

"
.........

There is no delusion in either nirvana (Sanskrit - "blown out") or satori (Japanese - "seeing one's nature or essence"). What someone told you about "remembering" has nothing to do with nirvana or satori. It seems you would rather remember and imagine than to see completely right now. That makes your "something to do" still a big problem. So just keep dealing with it in your own way for as long as you need to, until you no longer need to.
"
.........

You know about nirvana or satori because you have learned about them in teachings thousands of years old.

I only know what I have experienced myself, although I too have read about them, and talked with others who have also had experiences similar to my own.

So you are *knowledgeable*.  Good for you.  Id still rather have one experience than a thousand pages of text.

"
.........

I'm not knowledgable. I don't know any experiences of nirvana or satori. I only know one experience. This one. And I don't know what it is. What is it? Where did it come from? Where does it go? What is its purpose?

I have no answers to those questions. It is its own answer. But you have lots of your own wordy answers. You will answer all of those questions as if you know, at the drop of a hat. Lots and lots and lots of answers. Which one is the right one???
"
.........

"
.........

I'm not knowledgable. I don't know any experiences of nirvana or satori. I only know one experience. This one. And I don't know what it is. What is it? Where did it come from? Where does it go? What is its purpose?

I have no answers to those questions. It is its own answer. But you have lots of your own wordy answers. You will answer all of those questions as if you know, at the drop of a hat. Lots and lots and lots of answers. Which one is the right one???
"
.........

youre reliable.  I can always count on you for an argument, because just as you have always been all your life, you must be right !!  Its a compulsion.

I could be wrong just going by what I have experienced.  Even though others have had similar experiences.  I only know of one text that discusses what happens with a monk after satori, which is Zen in the Art of Archery by Eugene Herrigel, and which seems to correspond with my own subsequent meditations. 

I read Herrigel before satori, years before, and it made no sense to me at that time.  Only when I came back to it after awakening did it add up, and then I became interested in Zen.  Then I came to Zenguide Forum looking for other awakened people, and have found a few, here and elsewhere. 

They agree with me in theory and with you in practice, so which of us is right ?  I agree with you in practice too, Im just saying that it is not all about practice.  A train has a locomotive, cars, and a track, but without somewhere to go, or even not go, all the component parts are meaningless.  Practice is just a function.  Its what comes to you in practice that means something.

So what is the right answer ?  I dont believe there is a right answer.  It may be that there is only the *understanding* that there is no right answer.

Einstein said the answer was *energy*, everything is made of energy.  Maybe that is the right answer.  He was pretty smart you know, but not infallible.  He advocated Socialism in Germany, but when the National Socialist Part took over (Nazis) he had to flee to the US for protection.

I dont even think *energy* is the right answer.  Thats just one of an infinite number of possibilities that make all answers stop short.  What is that which can be anything?  What is its nature ?  What is its essence ?  Id say, *Nothing in particular*, but that would be just another short sighted answer, Im sure.

"
.........

More wordy answers. I'm not looking for an argument. Just pointing out that there isn't one. Keep arguing about the answer to "What is this?" all you want to. It's not going anywhere, and it has all the time in the world.
"
.........

"
.........

More wordy answers. I'm not looking for an argument. Just pointing out that there isn't one. Keep arguing about the answer to "What is this?" all you want to. It's not going anywhere, and it has all the time in the world.
"
.........

A Senator went to visit the indian reservation, and while there they honored him with the name *Walking Eagle*. 

After he left, they laughed among themselves that a walking eagle is a bird too full of crap to fly.

Keep it up, Walking Eagle.  Its more obvious than you know that you dont know nothing yet.  You cant see that because you dont see It.

vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 142697
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Reply from starduster
Sep.16.2012
06:55AM EDT 
vertical line

I once had an opportunity to play chess with a guy who was rated #2 in the country.  I knew I wouldnt win, but anticipated a great game.

The say sitting down at the table with Bobby Fischer was like sitting down with a leopard.  I got the same *feeling* from this guy.  An intense drive to win.  The game of chess was just a means toward that, a method of that madness.  He couldnt have cared less about the game itself.

I get the same feeling from you, esoteric.  And history bears it out, recalling that when you came here you announced that you had *the Truth* and would benevolently share it with us. 

The you argued with Chon Tri a great deal.  And then you gave in, evidently concluding that Chon Tri was right.  Since then you have simply been parrotting things that Chon Tri has said, but without his depth of understanding.  You just know Chon Tri is right, so by repeating things Chon Tri has said then you too must be right.

As long as you are right, thats all that matters to you, right ?  I feel from you an intense drive to be *Right*, and that you feel that you have that.  Good for you, no problem with that if it makes you happy.

But you can get off my back, scorpion, Im not giving you a ride.  Youre a fraud, and thats even worse than being wrong.

vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 142699
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Reply from esoteric
Sep.16.2012
09:05AM EDT 
vertical line Quote: "

I once had an opportunity to play chess with a guy who was rated #2 in the country.  I knew I wouldnt win, but anticipated a great game.

The say sitting down at the table with Bobby Fischer was like sitting down with a leopard.  I got the same *feeling* from this guy.  An intense drive to win.  The game of chess was just a means toward that, a method of that madness.  He couldnt have cared less about the game itself.

I get the same feeling from you, esoteric.  And history bears it out, recalling that when you came here you announced that you had *the Truth* and would benevolently share it with us. 

The you argued with Chon Tri a great deal.  And then you gave in, evidently concluding that Chon Tri was right.  Since then you have simply been parrotting things that Chon Tri has said, but without his depth of understanding.  You just know Chon Tri is right, so by repeating things Chon Tri has said then you too must be right.

As long as you are right, thats all that matters to you, right ?  I feel from you an intense drive to be *Right*, and that you feel that you have that.  Good for you, no problem with that if it makes you happy.

But you can get off my back, scorpion, Im not giving you a ride.  Youre a fraud, and thats even worse than being wrong.

"
.........

Still full of ideas. Open a window and breathe the fresh air.
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Reply from esoteric
Sep.16.2012
09:09AM EDT 
vertical line "Oh, once I played chess with a top rated chess player! I also played chess with Satan! I have talked to Jesus! I can read minds, travel to other planes of existence, and talk to angels and demons!  I can have sex any time I wish to, but I choose not to! I have had so many experiences, wonderful wonderful experiences! I am a magic man and can make anything happen!!!"

And yet you're not happy. Why is that?
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Reply from esoteric
Sep.16.2012
09:21AM EDT 
vertical line "Oh, I wasn't really my parents' child, I was a walk-in. My mother never loved me because she said I wasn't really her child, and she and my brother tried to kill me for the first several years of my life. It was rough, but I learned to be a survivor and watch my back at all times. I have gotten into lots of fights. I have loved many women, but they all left me. I saw many painful things in my career in Washington DC. So now, I live a quiet life holed up all by myself in my little corner of the world that I carved out. I'm getting old, and my body doesn't work so great any more, and there's still lots of pain. So many horrible horrible experiences."

And yet, you say that you are not sad or angry. Why is that?
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Reply from esoteric
Sep.16.2012
09:24AM EDT 
vertical line You are not alone, Don. We're all in it together. It's time to let go of your burdens.
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Reply from esoteric
Sep.16.2012
09:26AM EDT 
vertical line I'd take them for you, if I could. But I can't. And besides, I'm busy letting go of my own.
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Reply from so_teh
Sep.16.2012
03:05PM EDT 
Email so_teh
vertical line By trying to get rid of something we deny its impermanence.
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Reply from football
Sep.16.2012
03:20PM EDT 
Email football
vertical line this! I dont understand.
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Reply from Woodsman
Sep.16.2012
03:26PM EDT 
Email Woodsman
vertical line allergic to logic, or the question in my hand
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Reply from starduster
Sep.17.2012
06:14AM EDT 
vertical line

Quote: ""Oh, once I played chess with a top rated chess player! I also played chess with Satan! I have talked to Jesus! I can read minds, travel to other planes of existence, and talk to angels and demons!  I can have sex any time I wish to, but I choose not to! I have had so many experiences, wonderful wonderful experiences! I am a magic man and can make anything happen!!!"

And yet you're not happy. Why is that?
"
.........

Who said I wasnt happy ?  Im happy with the Spirit, the rest is incidental.  I had a rough beginning in life, but things have worked out in the long run.  I suppose thats the point.  If you dont find what you need outside yourself, look inside.

I have shared a lot of personal stuff here, but I havent lied.  Ive just shared.  Thats a choice.  But I never said I was a magic man who could make anything happen.  I have said that I used to think I was a shaman who was gaining personal power, but in a flash of *awakening* I learned that I have no power, and never did.  Only the One has power.

You have shared too, like when you said you were going to leave your family and go on the road as a bodhisattva to share your wisdom with the poor downtrodden people of the world who need you more.  What happened to that idea ?

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Reply from starduster
Sep.17.2012
06:28AM EDT 
vertical line

Quote: ""Oh, I wasn't really my parents' child, I was a walk-in. My mother never loved me because she said I wasn't really her child, and she and my brother tried to kill me for the first several years of my life. It was rough, but I learned to be a survivor and watch my back at all times. I have gotten into lots of fights. I have loved many women, but they all left me. I saw many painful things in my career in Washington DC. So now, I live a quiet life holed up all by myself in my little corner of the world that I carved out. I'm getting old, and my body doesn't work so great any more, and there's still lots of pain. So many horrible horrible experiences."

And yet, you say that you are not sad or angry. Why is that?
"
.........

This is pretty accurate except the part about women leaving me.  Im on good terms with all of my exes except my first wife.  She is unhappy that she has not been able to get remarried in the Catholic Church since we were married there.  I volunteered to write to the church and say it was all my fault, I had my fingers crossed, etc, so she could get the annulment she needs, but havent heard back from her.

There are things in my past that I feel sad when I think about.  But not angry.  I disassociate myself from things that make me angry.  Actually, anger is the child of fear, so whenever I feel anger I ask myself, *What am I afraid of ?*  Then I face the fear, it disappears, and the anger goes with it, 

The only one left from my childhood of terror is my brother, and we are estranged.  I asked him some time ago if he remembered all the times he tried to kill me, and he said of course he did.  I asked him how he felt about that, and he said no big deal, lots of older siblings try to kill off the younger ones.  He said its just the way it was back then, get over it.

Then I saw an interview with a former Nazi SS officer, and he was asked how he felt about all the Jews he had killed.  He said it was not big deal, *You had to be zere, its just da vey it vas back zen.*  Yeah, sure, I thought to myself, unless you were a Jew, or me, struggling to survive at the hands of evil.  So then I broke off relations with my brother.  That was my choice, and I made it.  Sticking to it too.

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Reply from esoteric
Sep.17.2012
08:47AM EDT 
vertical line Quote: "

Quote: ""Oh, once I played chess with a top rated chess player! I also played chess with Satan! I have talked to Jesus! I can read minds, travel to other planes of existence, and talk to angels and demons!  I can have sex any time I wish to, but I choose not to! I have had so many experiences, wonderful wonderful experiences! I am a magic man and can make anything happen!!!"

And yet you're not happy. Why is that?
"
.........

Who said I wasnt happy ?  Im happy with the Spirit, the rest is incidental.  I had a rough beginning in life, but things have worked out in the long run.  I suppose thats the point.  If you dont find what you need outside yourself, look inside.

I have shared a lot of personal stuff here, but I havent lied.  Ive just shared.  Thats a choice.  But I never said I was a magic man who could make anything happen.  I have said that I used to think I was a shaman who was gaining personal power, but in a flash of *awakening* I learned that I have no power, and never did.  Only the One has power.

You have shared too, like when you said you were going to leave your family and go on the road as a bodhisattva to share your wisdom with the poor downtrodden people of the world who need you more.  What happened to that idea ?

"
.........

esoteric
Sep.18.2010
09:54AM

'I'm on the brink of leaving my wife and family to devote my whole being to enlightenment and helping all beings out of suffering. It looks less special to me as I lose the attachment to the ideas of "husband", "father", and "family."'
.........

'Devote my whole being to enlightenment and helping all beings out of suffering' was esoteric's idea. The rest was your idea. You happened to it.

But if you mean, what do I do now?.... I eat, I breathe, I sleep, I work, and I do what I do. I talk and do things with my ex-wife and my daughters some times. Any time someone needs help, I do what I can. My whole being is being. Nothing to complain about, and nothing to explain, unless complaint or explanation are needed.
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Reply from starduster
Sep.17.2012
09:08AM EDT 
vertical line Quote: "Quote: "

Quote: ""Oh, once I played chess with a top rated chess player! I also played chess with Satan! I have talked to Jesus! I can read minds, travel to other planes of existence, and talk to angels and demons!  I can have sex any time I wish to, but I choose not to! I have had so many experiences, wonderful wonderful experiences! I am a magic man and can make anything happen!!!"

And yet you're not happy. Why is that?
"
.........

Who said I wasnt happy ?  Im happy with the Spirit, the rest is incidental.  I had a rough beginning in life, but things have worked out in the long run.  I suppose thats the point.  If you dont find what you need outside yourself, look inside.

I have shared a lot of personal stuff here, but I havent lied.  Ive just shared.  Thats a choice.  But I never said I was a magic man who could make anything happen.  I have said that I used to think I was a shaman who was gaining personal power, but in a flash of *awakening* I learned that I have no power, and never did.  Only the One has power.

You have shared too, like when you said you were going to leave your family and go on the road as a bodhisattva to share your wisdom with the poor downtrodden people of the world who need you more.  What happened to that idea ?

"
.........

esoteric
Sep.18.2010
09:54AM

'I'm on the brink of leaving my wife and family to devote my whole being to enlightenment and helping all beings out of suffering. It looks less special to me as I lose the attachment to the ideas of "husband", "father", and "family."'
.........

'Devote my whole being to enlightenment and helping all beings out of suffering' was esoteric's idea. The rest was your idea. You happened to it.

But if you mean, what do I do now?.... I eat, I breathe, I sleep, I work, and I do what I do. I talk and do things with my ex-wife and my daughters some times. Any time someone needs help, I do what I can. My whole being is being. Nothing to complain about, and nothing to explain, unless complaint or explanation are needed.
"
.........

"
.........

esoteric
Sep.18.2010
09:54AM

'I'm on the brink of leaving my wife and family to devote my whole being to enlightenment and helping all beings out of suffering. It looks less special to me as I lose the attachment to the ideas of "husband", "father", and "family."'
.........

'Devote my whole being to enlightenment and helping all beings out of suffering' was esoteric's idea. The rest was your idea. You happened to it.

But if you mean, what do I do now?.... I eat, I breathe, I sleep, I work, and I do what I do. I talk and do things with my ex-wife and my daughters some times. Any time someone needs help, I do what I can. My whole being is being. Nothing to complain about, and nothing to explain, unless complaint or explanation are needed.
"
.........

*ex-wife*, sorry to hear that.  Last I recall hearing, you were still at home with your family.

There is nothing wrong about what you are doing, its a fine kettle of fish.  As long as it works for you thats all that matters. 

Silence is golden, and simplicity comes in second to that. 

If you try to pass on to others what works for you, assuming that what works for you should work for everyone, you may do more harm than good.  If you can help someone to realize what it is that works for them, that is helping.  Illogical ?  Maybe, but whats right is what works, not necessarily what we think it should be.

When you came here you also spoke of a *watcher within - who was real, and was not you*, as per my best recollection.  What has happened with that relationship ?  Has it gone by the wayside ?

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Reply from Joe Chip
Sep.17.2012
11:52AM EDT 
vertical line [The] You all soundS the SAME.
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Reply from so_teh
Sep.17.2012
05:07PM EDT 
Email so_teh
vertical line Uh, be you.
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Reply from so_teh
Sep.17.2012
05:11PM EDT 
Email so_teh
vertical line where did my friendliness go?
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Reply from so_teh
Sep.17.2012
05:13PM EDT 
Email so_teh
vertical line loveliness.
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Reply from esoteric
Sep.17.2012
07:40PM EDT 
vertical line Quote: "Quote: "Quote: "

Quote: ""Oh, once I played chess with a top rated chess player! I also played chess with Satan! I have talked to Jesus! I can read minds, travel to other planes of existence, and talk to angels and demons!  I can have sex any time I wish to, but I choose not to! I have had so many experiences, wonderful wonderful experiences! I am a magic man and can make anything happen!!!"

And yet you're not happy. Why is that?
"
.........

Who said I wasnt happy ?  Im happy with the Spirit, the rest is incidental.  I had a rough beginning in life, but things have worked out in the long run.  I suppose thats the point.  If you dont find what you need outside yourself, look inside.

I have shared a lot of personal stuff here, but I havent lied.  Ive just shared.  Thats a choice.  But I never said I was a magic man who could make anything happen.  I have said that I used to think I was a shaman who was gaining personal power, but in a flash of *awakening* I learned that I have no power, and never did.  Only the One has power.

You have shared too, like when you said you were going to leave your family and go on the road as a bodhisattva to share your wisdom with the poor downtrodden people of the world who need you more.  What happened to that idea ?

"
.........

esoteric
Sep.18.2010
09:54AM

'I'm on the brink of leaving my wife and family to devote my whole being to enlightenment and helping all beings out of suffering. It looks less special to me as I lose the attachment to the ideas of "husband", "father", and "family."'
.........

'Devote my whole being to enlightenment and helping all beings out of suffering' was esoteric's idea. The rest was your idea. You happened to it.

But if you mean, what do I do now?.... I eat, I breathe, I sleep, I work, and I do what I do. I talk and do things with my ex-wife and my daughters some times. Any time someone needs help, I do what I can. My whole being is being. Nothing to complain about, and nothing to explain, unless complaint or explanation are needed.
"
.........

"
.........

esoteric
Sep.18.2010
09:54AM

'I'm on the brink of leaving my wife and family to devote my whole being to enlightenment and helping all beings out of suffering. It looks less special to me as I lose the attachment to the ideas of "husband", "father", and "family."'
.........

'Devote my whole being to enlightenment and helping all beings out of suffering' was esoteric's idea. The rest was your idea. You happened to it.

But if you mean, what do I do now?.... I eat, I breathe, I sleep, I work, and I do what I do. I talk and do things with my ex-wife and my daughters some times. Any time someone needs help, I do what I can. My whole being is being. Nothing to complain about, and nothing to explain, unless complaint or explanation are needed.
"
.........

*ex-wife*, sorry to hear that.  Last I recall hearing, you were still at home with your family.

There is nothing wrong about what you are doing, its a fine kettle of fish.  As long as it works for you thats all that matters. 

Silence is golden, and simplicity comes in second to that. 

If you try to pass on to others what works for you, assuming that what works for you should work for everyone, you may do more harm than good.  If you can help someone to realize what it is that works for them, that is helping.  Illogical ?  Maybe, but whats right is what works, not necessarily what we think it should be.

When you came here you also spoke of a *watcher within - who was real, and was not you*, as per my best recollection.  What has happened with that relationship ?  Has it gone by the wayside ?

"
.........

See there? You got a bunch of ideas again.

When I came here, I read your message. And now I'm writing this one. :-)
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Reply from starduster
Sep.18.2012
04:36AM EDT 
vertical line

When you came here you also spoke of a *watcher within - who was real, and was not you*, as per my best recollection.  What has happened with that relationship ?  Has it gone by the wayside ?

"
.........

See there? You got a bunch of ideas again.

When I came here, I read your message. And now I'm writing this one. :-)

-------------------------------------

In the past, Ive asked you to stay away from me.  But you have insisted on communicating with me, so Im obliging you.

I can always count on you for an argument, because of your defensive personality.  A zen monk has nothing to defend, but you havent figured that out yet.  Its not really that you have to be right all the time, but moreso that this is a feature of a compulsion of defensiveness.  Ask your ex-wife.  Im sure she will agree.

You are probably a good chess player.  I recall my chess teacher saying, *Its not the best offense that wins in chess, its the best defense.*  Also why it is said, *Lucky in cards, unlucky in love.*

My question about the *watcher* you once spoke of is sincere.  If I recall correctly, you said there was this watcher within you, who was not you, but who helped you and provided you with information, etc.

This registered with me because of my own relationship with the one I know as the Spirit, who has been with me, in me, since June of 1972.  I recall the particular day and event quite clearly because she was inside someone else when I found her, and has been in me ever since.  For all intents and purposes, we are essentially married.

At first I didnt know what to make of it and asked, *Are you my guardian angel ?*, to which she replied, *You could say that.*  But over time it has come to be much more than that.  After being in the Void with her, nothing in existence except us, both as formless spirits, she asked, *Now do you know who you are married to ?*  Yes, my Self.  I created me for Me.  And thats all I really need to know.

So you have found what works for you, what relieves your suffering, and I have found what works for me.  Neither of us needs to change the other, or be defensive about what we have.  A zen monk has nothing to defend.  It is what it is, and it aint what it aint.  We have what comes to us, and that is all there is, for us.

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Reply from esoteric
Sep.18.2012
07:34PM EDT 
vertical line Quote: "

When you came here you also spoke of a *watcher within - who was real, and was not you*, as per my best recollection.  What has happened with that relationship ?  Has it gone by the wayside ?

"
.........

See there? You got a bunch of ideas again.

When I came here, I read your message. And now I'm writing this one. :-)

-------------------------------------

In the past, Ive asked you to stay away from me.  But you have insisted on communicating with me, so Im obliging you.

I can always count on you for an argument, because of your defensive personality.  A zen monk has nothing to defend, but you havent figured that out yet.  Its not really that you have to be right all the time, but moreso that this is a feature of a compulsion of defensiveness.  Ask your ex-wife.  Im sure she will agree.

You are probably a good chess player.  I recall my chess teacher saying, *Its not the best offense that wins in chess, its the best defense.*  Also why it is said, *Lucky in cards, unlucky in love.*

My question about the *watcher* you once spoke of is sincere.  If I recall correctly, you said there was this watcher within you, who was not you, but who helped you and provided you with information, etc.

This registered with me because of my own relationship with the one I know as the Spirit, who has been with me, in me, since June of 1972.  I recall the particular day and event quite clearly because she was inside someone else when I found her, and has been in me ever since.  For all intents and purposes, we are essentially married.

At first I didnt know what to make of it and asked, *Are you my guardian angel ?*, to which she replied, *You could say that.*  But over time it has come to be much more than that.  After being in the Void with her, nothing in existence except us, both as formless spirits, she asked, *Now do you know who you are married to ?*  Yes, my Self.  I created me for Me.  And thats all I really need to know.

So you have found what works for you, what relieves your suffering, and I have found what works for me.  Neither of us needs to change the other, or be defensive about what we have.  A zen monk has nothing to defend.  It is what it is, and it aint what it aint.  We have what comes to us, and that is all there is, for us.

"
.........

Who is being defensive?
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Reply from starduster
Sep.19.2012
03:28PM EDT 
vertical line Quote: "Quote: "

When you came here you also spoke of a *watcher within - who was real, and was not you*, as per my best recollection.  What has happened with that relationship ?  Has it gone by the wayside ?

"
.........

See there? You got a bunch of ideas again.

When I came here, I read your message. And now I'm writing this one. :-)

-------------------------------------

In the past, Ive asked you to stay away from me.  But you have insisted on communicating with me, so Im obliging you.

I can always count on you for an argument, because of your defensive personality.  A zen monk has nothing to defend, but you havent figured that out yet.  Its not really that you have to be right all the time, but moreso that this is a feature of a compulsion of defensiveness.  Ask your ex-wife.  Im sure she will agree.

You are probably a good chess player.  I recall my chess teacher saying, *Its not the best offense that wins in chess, its the best defense.*  Also why it is said, *Lucky in cards, unlucky in love.*

My question about the *watcher* you once spoke of is sincere.  If I recall correctly, you said there was this watcher within you, who was not you, but who helped you and provided you with information, etc.

This registered with me because of my own relationship with the one I know as the Spirit, who has been with me, in me, since June of 1972.  I recall the particular day and event quite clearly because she was inside someone else when I found her, and has been in me ever since.  For all intents and purposes, we are essentially married.

At first I didnt know what to make of it and asked, *Are you my guardian angel ?*, to which she replied, *You could say that.*  But over time it has come to be much more than that.  After being in the Void with her, nothing in existence except us, both as formless spirits, she asked, *Now do you know who you are married to ?*  Yes, my Self.  I created me for Me.  And thats all I really need to know.

So you have found what works for you, what relieves your suffering, and I have found what works for me.  Neither of us needs to change the other, or be defensive about what we have.  A zen monk has nothing to defend.  It is what it is, and it aint what it aint.  We have what comes to us, and that is all there is, for us.

"
.........

Who is being defensive?
"
.........

"
.........

Who is being defensive?
"
.........

You are.

Ive tried to open up a dialogue, at your bidding,

but youre an ass hole.

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Reply from esoteric
Sep.19.2012
06:33PM EDT 
vertical line Quote: "Quote: "Quote: "

When you came here you also spoke of a *watcher within - who was real, and was not you*, as per my best recollection.  What has happened with that relationship ?  Has it gone by the wayside ?

"
.........

See there? You got a bunch of ideas again.

When I came here, I read your message. And now I'm writing this one. :-)

-------------------------------------

In the past, Ive asked you to stay away from me.  But you have insisted on communicating with me, so Im obliging you.

I can always count on you for an argument, because of your defensive personality.  A zen monk has nothing to defend, but you havent figured that out yet.  Its not really that you have to be right all the time, but moreso that this is a feature of a compulsion of defensiveness.  Ask your ex-wife.  Im sure she will agree.

You are probably a good chess player.  I recall my chess teacher saying, *Its not the best offense that wins in chess, its the best defense.*  Also why it is said, *Lucky in cards, unlucky in love.*

My question about the *watcher* you once spoke of is sincere.  If I recall correctly, you said there was this watcher within you, who was not you, but who helped you and provided you with information, etc.

This registered with me because of my own relationship with the one I know as the Spirit, who has been with me, in me, since June of 1972.  I recall the particular day and event quite clearly because she was inside someone else when I found her, and has been in me ever since.  For all intents and purposes, we are essentially married.

At first I didnt know what to make of it and asked, *Are you my guardian angel ?*, to which she replied, *You could say that.*  But over time it has come to be much more than that.  After being in the Void with her, nothing in existence except us, both as formless spirits, she asked, *Now do you know who you are married to ?*  Yes, my Self.  I created me for Me.  And thats all I really need to know.

So you have found what works for you, what relieves your suffering, and I have found what works for me.  Neither of us needs to change the other, or be defensive about what we have.  A zen monk has nothing to defend.  It is what it is, and it aint what it aint.  We have what comes to us, and that is all there is, for us.

"
.........

Who is being defensive?
"
.........

"
.........

Who is being defensive?
"
.........

You are.

Ive tried to open up a dialogue, at your bidding,

but youre an ass hole.

"
.........

A dialogue about what? I don't have anything to say about any of your ideas, because they're your ideas. But I can answer your questions as best I can. There is no "relationship" between me and the "watcher within" because there's no "within", and I'm the one doing the watching. Sometimes I describe what I see, if it's appropriate.

Right now, I'm resting after a day's work editing photos for a Turkish rug importer. Next, I'll be packing my stuff and moving it to a temporary apartment. And I might talk to this cool chick I met recently who likes good music and literature. And I'll probably have a good beer, after I get my stuff settled and my computer connected. So, you know...stuff and things.
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Reply from esoteric
Sep.19.2012
06:36PM EDT 
vertical line How was your day? I bet you had stuff and things too. :-)
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Reply from nibble
Sep.19.2012
08:17PM EDT 
vertical line Had a discussion with a friend of mine that is totally atheist and even more arrogant when drunk. Picked him up from a bachelor party where he was having some very strong-minded opinions of god, jesus and all the rest that the comming groom totally believed in..
I asked the drunk bastard in the car like what-if. Say  someone was truly happy, like radiating happiness and really enjoying life. And all this was because of  some "ignorant" belief in jesus and heaven to come and the whole lot.

Would he then convince such a person that his belief was wrong?

Yes, as long as my friend knew he was right, he would have no problem convincing someone that the bible was wrong and the whole shenanigan of the Christian religion.

I then said, so making someone" realising the truth" is most important to you? Even if this person belief made him truly happy and  had just positive influence on his life and it was for certain that he would be depressed and totally worse off knowing the "truth" yadda yadda laying it thick etc?

Yesss, he said, absolutely.

Thou he was drunk, I kinda think he somewhat really meant it.

Anyway, We are all nutjobs in here, nothing to be shamed off, who to say their fantasies are any better than others? (except me!:)

So the moral is, Starduster, recommend u stop gnashing on your spirit thing, you sound like a fanatic in need of convincing himself (and not the only one who probable oughta get laid here so not going into that:)
And estoric, recommend u reread ur postings critically with what you hope to achieve in mind.

And now, let's all come together for a big group hug or smash the living brain outta each other since that is kinda more fun to watch:)

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Reply from so_teh
Sep.19.2012
11:46PM EDT 
Email so_teh
vertical line At the end of most of these threads in our forum here, I arrive at the sound 'nah' Its a good sound. Mantra-like. Nah. Get it?
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Reply from starduster
Sep.20.2012
04:24AM EDT 
vertical line Quote: "Quote: "Quote: "Quote: "

When you came here you also spoke of a *watcher within - who was real, and was not you*, as per my best recollection.  What has happened with that relationship ?  Has it gone by the wayside ?

"
.........

See there? You got a bunch of ideas again.

When I came here, I read your message. And now I'm writing this one. :-)

-------------------------------------

In the past, Ive asked you to stay away from me.  But you have insisted on communicating with me, so Im obliging you.

I can always count on you for an argument, because of your defensive personality.  A zen monk has nothing to defend, but you havent figured that out yet.  Its not really that you have to be right all the time, but moreso that this is a feature of a compulsion of defensiveness.  Ask your ex-wife.  Im sure she will agree.

You are probably a good chess player.  I recall my chess teacher saying, *Its not the best offense that wins in chess, its the best defense.*  Also why it is said, *Lucky in cards, unlucky in love.*

My question about the *watcher* you once spoke of is sincere.  If I recall correctly, you said there was this watcher within you, who was not you, but who helped you and provided you with information, etc.

This registered with me because of my own relationship with the one I know as the Spirit, who has been with me, in me, since June of 1972.  I recall the particular day and event quite clearly because she was inside someone else when I found her, and has been in me ever since.  For all intents and purposes, we are essentially married.

At first I didnt know what to make of it and asked, *Are you my guardian angel ?*, to which she replied, *You could say that.*  But over time it has come to be much more than that.  After being in the Void with her, nothing in existence except us, both as formless spirits, she asked, *Now do you know who you are married to ?*  Yes, my Self.  I created me for Me.  And thats all I really need to know.

So you have found what works for you, what relieves your suffering, and I have found what works for me.  Neither of us needs to change the other, or be defensive about what we have.  A zen monk has nothing to defend.  It is what it is, and it aint what it aint.  We have what comes to us, and that is all there is, for us.

"
.........

Who is being defensive?
"
.........

"
.........

Who is being defensive?
"
.........

You are.

Ive tried to open up a dialogue, at your bidding,

but youre an ass hole.

"
.........

A dialogue about what? I don't have anything to say about any of your ideas, because they're your ideas. But I can answer your questions as best I can. There is no "relationship" between me and the "watcher within" because there's no "within", and I'm the one doing the watching. Sometimes I describe what I see, if it's appropriate.

Right now, I'm resting after a day's work editing photos for a Turkish rug importer. Next, I'll be packing my stuff and moving it to a temporary apartment. And I might talk to this cool chick I met recently who likes good music and literature. And I'll probably have a good beer, after I get my stuff settled and my computer connected. So, you know...stuff and things.
"
.........

"
.........

A dialogue about what? I don't have anything to say about any of your ideas, because they're your ideas. But I can answer your questions as best I can. There is no "relationship" between me and the "watcher within" because there's no "within", and I'm the one doing the watching. Sometimes I describe what I see, if it's appropriate.

Right now, I'm resting after a day's work editing photos for a Turkish rug importer. Next, I'll be packing my stuff and moving it to a temporary apartment. And I might talk to this cool chick I met recently who likes good music and literature. And I'll probably have a good beer, after I get my stuff settled and my computer connected. So, you know...stuff and things.
"
.........

Thank you.  By the way, Im an ass hole too, especially when I think someone else is being one.  I tend to respond in like kind.

I used to think my *Spirit* within was a manifestation of my subconscious mind, especially since I have done considerable work with self-hypnosis.  Until she manifested things outside too, and told me about it ahead of time.  Whoever or whatever spiritual entity she is, she has proven her existence to me many times, so I have to believe in her. 

Anyway, it has come down to where she loves me and I love her, and she says we will be together forever in the Void, so Im going with that.  She says I might as well think of her as my wife because thats the way it is always going to be, so I do.  Im happy with that.

If you find something that makes you happy, and promises eternal life as well, then I think thats great.  Actually, I met her two years before taking up meditation on a daily basis, but our relationship didnt become romantic until after I became awakened and we have since been together in the Void.  Until then, I always thought of her as my guardian angel.

Its hard to explain, but in awakening I *remembered* being the One in the Void before there was anything else, including me.  The me I know as me did not exist, time and space did not exist, nothing existed except the One awareness, and nothing ever had.  Nothing existed except the One original awareness, who I was at that time, and whom I know to be all of us really.  That is the original state that I refer to as *nothingness*, and I am by far not the only one to have had that experience.

I thought it was a once in a lifetime experience, so it came as a surprise to me to return to the Void in my meditations after that, and to be in the Void as myself, the me I know as me, with that One awareness.  Things have evolved and changed considerably since then, much as Herrigel describes in Zen and the Art of Archery, to the point where I understand that the Spirit and the One are one in the same. 

And as such, I have no greater desire than get home to the Void as soon as I can.  Whatever It is, thats what It is to me.  So thats my story.

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Reply from starduster
Sep.20.2012
04:38AM EDT 
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Quote: "Had a discussion with a friend of mine that is totally atheist and even more arrogant when drunk. Picked him up from a bachelor party where he was having some very strong-minded opinions of god, jesus and all the rest that the comming groom totally believed in..
I asked the drunk bastard in the car like what-if. Say  someone was truly happy, like radiating happiness and really enjoying life. And all this was because of  some "ignorant" belief in jesus and heaven to come and the whole lot.

Would he then convince such a person that his belief was wrong?

Yes, as long as my friend knew he was right, he would have no problem convincing someone that the bible was wrong and the whole shenanigan of the Christian religion.

I then said, so making someone" realising the truth" is most important to you? Even if this person belief made him truly happy and  had just positive influence on his life and it was for certain that he would be depressed and totally worse off knowing the "truth" yadda yadda laying it thick etc?

Yesss, he said, absolutely.

Thou he was drunk, I kinda think he somewhat really meant it.

Anyway, We are all nutjobs in here, nothing to be shamed off, who to say their fantasies are any better than others? (except me!:)

So the moral is, Starduster, recommend u stop gnashing on your spirit thing, you sound like a fanatic in need of convincing himself (and not the only one who probable oughta get laid here so not going into that:)
And estoric, recommend u reread ur postings critically with what you hope to achieve in mind.

And now, let's all come together for a big group hug or smash the living brain outta each other since that is kinda more fun to watch:)

"
.........


Well said. 

Happiness is the only realistic goal.  I am put in mind of a radio talk show one morning about what to do about the homeless problem in DC.

A homeless man called in and said, *You know, I may be a crazy alcoholic, but Im happy.  How many of you, stuck in traffic on your way to your 9 to 5 office job, can say that you are happy ?*

I wasnt happy at that juncture in my life.  I loved my job, but I was in an unhappy marriage, and I didnt like living in the city, especially since I grew up in the country.

Now I am happy.  I live in the country.  I like my job.  I like coming to this forum.  I like my meditations.  I like just sitting too, just breathing.  etc etc.  Life is cool, but Im still looking forward to getting home to the Spirit even more, so I suppose I may indeed focus on that a bit too much.

I dont say that what I have is right for anyone but me.  I only say go into meditation and see what comes to you, and maybe those who are unhappy will find happiness too.

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Reply from starduster
Sep.20.2012
04:42AM EDT 
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Quote: "At the end of most of these threads in our forum here, I arrive at the sound 'nah' Its a good sound. Mantra-like. Nah. Get it?"
.........

I think theres a song like that,

nah nah nah, nah,

hey hey hey, good bye,

to this thread.

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Reply from Joe Chip
Sep.20.2012
09:23AM EDT 
vertical line The Yah Yah Nahs. Geddit?
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Reply from starduster
Sep.20.2012
10:39AM EDT 
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Quote: "The Yah Yah Nahs. Geddit?"
.........

Mantra ?

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Reply from Joe Chip
Sep.22.2012
07:01AM EDT 
vertical line The Yah Yah Nahs geddit.
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Reply from zenmanstan
Sep.24.2012
08:01PM EDT 
Email zenmanstan
vertical line Quote: "The Yah Yah Nahs geddit."
.........i get the second one but why post links nobody wants to follow them nothing personal
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Reply from starduster
Sep.25.2012
06:28AM EDT 
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Are you still carrying this thread ?

I set it down four posts ago.

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Reply from Joe Chip
Sep.25.2012
06:52AM EDT 
vertical line The cemetery is full of indispensable links. Follow that.
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Reply from zenmanstan
Sep.27.2012
07:54PM EDT 
Email zenmanstan
vertical line i was always just following along
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Reply from starduster
Sep.28.2012
06:40AM EDT 
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Going to the cemetery ?  Follow along ?

Okay, you first !!

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