history principles practice stories, books, media discussion forum organizations resources
zenguide.com logo
 
Saturday Oct 25 2014 10:33AM ET
º login º register º email º guestbook º printer friendly
grey dot
  In the early days of the Meiji era there lived a well-known wrestler called O-nami, Great Waves. O-nami was immensely strong and knew the art of wrestling. In his private bouts he defeated even his teacher, but in public he was so bashful... continue...

z
.
e
.
n
menu left history menu spacer principles menu spacer practice menu spacer zen media menu spacer discussion forum menu spacer organization directory menu spacer resources  
login
  DISCUSSION FORUM
» topic list   » start a new topic   » my tracked topics   » view topic
grey dot

horizontal line
→→→→ vertical line TOPIC: WHERE DO I GO
vertical line Posted on Aug.29.2012 @ 07:56AM EDT by dannym
I get that we are born die and are reborn. But if I dont have a soul and when I die only my karma passes into the next life along with some erroneous particles, and one day I happen to reach nirvana who am I if not the person writing this e-mail, if it is not me what is the point?
Go to Latest Reply   Reply to this Topic   Email dannym
horizontal line
 
horizontal line
Reply from Joe Chip
Aug.29.2012
08:01AM EDT 
vertical line You are the final and last remaining brag of Homo Rightus, a rip-snorting Clovius Hoofus. You will swim the Bermuda Triangle and not get wet.
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 141794
horizontal line
 
horizontal line
Reply from dannym
Aug.29.2012
08:03AM EDT 
Email dannym
vertical line I thought as much
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 141795
horizontal line
 
horizontal line
Reply from Avisitor
Aug.29.2012
08:44AM EDT 
Email Avisitor
vertical line As you are now, you are an aggregate of your body, mind and what some call soul its not really a soul as we think of it.
Anyway, what gets reborn is the part that is not an aggregate ... but get reborn into another aggregate.
What's the point?? The point is to find yourself in the portion that doesn't break down and to separate yourself from being reborn.
Ah, hell, I hate spewing this crap out.
I understand it but I really don't like talking about it.

Where do you go?? Back to that which you came from ... hahaha
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 141796
horizontal line
 
horizontal line
Reply from Joe Chip
Aug.29.2012
09:34AM EDT 
vertical line I don't ask you to believe anything. Welcome to the aggregate of delusive mysteries.
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 141798
horizontal line
 
horizontal line
Reply from starduster
Aug.29.2012
10:54AM EDT 
vertical line

On his deathbed, dying of cancer, Shunyro Suzuki said,

*Dont feel sorry for me.  I know who I really am.*

If it isnt you, whats the point ?  Of what ?

I interpret what Suzuki said as meaning,

*Im just a character I have been playing here.  Im returning to being the actor.*

The character cant lose the actor, and the actor cant lose the character.  Once the character has arisen, they are inextricably intertwined.

So whats to worry ?

vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 141803
horizontal line
 
horizontal line
Reply from esoteric
Aug.29.2012
11:10AM EDT 
vertical line Quote: "I get that we are born die and are reborn. But if I dont have a soul and when I die only my karma passes into the next life along with some erroneous particles, and one day I happen to reach nirvana who am I if not the person writing this e-mail, if it is not me what is the point? "
.........

There is no point to the ideas of rebirth, soul, death, karma, or nirvana. Because as long as they are only ideas, then they are only ideas.

If you want to understand death and rebirth, then die yourself and be reborn.

If you want to understand karma, look at your thoughts and everything you see moment by moment, from the moment you were born, and see how they arise and change and go away.

If you want to understand soul, then look at your thoughts and everything you see moment by moment, from the moment you were born, and see what stays the same as those things arise and change and go away.

If you want to understand nirvana, then keep practicing exactly the way the Buddha practiced, since he's the one who claimed to have found it.
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 141810
horizontal line
 
horizontal line
Reply from boymonk
Aug.29.2012
01:01PM EDT 
vertical line The point is to try. Try try try, to not leave in our wake a steaming pile of toxic karma sludge. It's just not cricket.
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 141813
horizontal line
 
horizontal line
Reply from Avisitor
Aug.31.2012
05:19AM EDT 
Email Avisitor
vertical line The topic of life and death and rebirth is not a new one.
It has been a favorite subject of mine. To contemplate one's mortality.
In sleep, we don't have the awareness of our sleep. We just are asleep.
In lighter sleep, we have minor awareness of the senses.
So, is death like sleep? Do we lose our awareness??

If we are reborn, then what is it that gets reborn if we are to believe that there is no soul or anything permanent??

What is the meaning of living this life? To live and suffer. Only to die and be born again into suffering??

This is life. Do something you want with it. Make your choices and try to be happy with it.
Things like practicing awareness. Meditating for your very essence.
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 141849
horizontal line
 
horizontal line
Reply from starduster
Aug.31.2012
07:31PM EDT 
vertical line

The purpose of life is to make good memories,

because that is all that you get to take with you when you go.

vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 141862
horizontal line
 
horizontal line
Reply from Avisitor
Aug.31.2012
08:35PM EDT 
Email Avisitor
vertical line Quote: "

The purpose of life is to make good memories,

because that is all that you get to take with you when you go.

"
.........
If I get the memories then do I also get the emotions that went with them??
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 141865
horizontal line
 
horizontal line
Reply from simple
Sep.01.2012
08:07AM EDT 
Email simple
vertical line I hope so.
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 141878
horizontal line
 
horizontal line
Reply from leoj99
Sep.01.2012
11:19AM EDT 
vertical line I bet no one will admit they do not know. lol
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 141883
horizontal line
 
horizontal line
Reply from Joe Chip
Sep.02.2012
06:47AM EDT 
vertical line You won't.
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 141900
horizontal line
 
horizontal line
Reply from boymonk
Sep.03.2012
07:49PM EDT 
vertical line The point is to not try. The point is to surrender and be one with the cosmos. It is only by not trying that trying is achieve. Impossible you say? You can't believe it? THAT IS WHY YOU FAIL.
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 141988
horizontal line
 
horizontal line
Reply from Riverstone
Sep.04.2012
03:06PM EDT 
vertical line Nice!!
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 142024
horizontal line
 
horizontal line
Reply from Riverstone
Sep.04.2012
03:13PM EDT 
vertical line Quote: "I bet no one will admit they do not know. lol

"
.........

"I do not know." Is not the end of wisdom, it is the beginning. Yet still,you have hit the proverbial head of the nail directly. The "I" can not know. That is the whole point. The 'I' is the obstacle between you and wisdom, between you and everything. When you stop looking with this 'I', 'you' will see, 'you' were never born, 'you' will never die. And here is the most frustrating part; but of course you were born and of course you will die. It is frustrating for me because as much as both things are true at once, the linear, logical mind can not "get it". For the logical mind, one or the other can be so, but not both. This is duality and it is why I have so much difficulty conveying what I mean in these forums. We simple do not have a language which is non-dual.
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 142025
horizontal line
 
horizontal line
Reply from Joe Chip
Sep.04.2012
03:20PM EDT 
vertical line See, you mean.
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 142026
horizontal line
 
horizontal line
Reply from starduster
Sep.05.2012
07:19AM EDT 
vertical line

Quote: "The point is to not try. The point is to surrender and be one with the cosmos. It is only by not trying that trying is achieve. Impossible you say? You can't believe it? THAT IS WHY YOU FAIL. "
.........

Just a passing amusement, I had a really high clearance in the service, a Nato Top Secret, which is referred to in classified circles as a *Cosmic Clearance* because it is international among our allies.

I wonder how that applies to my astral travels, sorta kinda.  I seem to be privy to a lot of stuff from other planes of existence.

One of the reasons I believe so strongly in these other planes is that I have met and talked with other people, other travelers, who have been to the same places.  We have compared notes, and they match.  I was able to share some other experiences with them, and they with me.  That has been pretty cool.

vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 142083
horizontal line
 
horizontal line
Reply from Joe Chip
Sep.05.2012
07:27AM EDT 
vertical line Oh, so, so Un-American.
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 142084
horizontal line
 
horizontal line
Reply from Joe Chip
Sep.06.2012
08:06AM EDT 
vertical line V
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 142117
horizontal line
 
horizontal line
Reply from Avisitor
Sep.06.2012
08:10AM EDT 
Email Avisitor
vertical line Quote: "Just a passing amusement, I had a really high clearance in the service, a Nato Top Secret, which is referred to in classified circles as a *Cosmic Clearance* because it is international among our allies.

I wonder how that applies to my astral travels, sorta kinda.  I seem to be privy to a lot of stuff from other planes of existence.

One of the reasons I believe so strongly in these other planes is that I have met and talked with other people, other travelers, who have been to the same places.  We have compared notes, and they match.  I was able to share some other experiences with them, and they with me.  That has been pretty cool.

"
.........
That is cool when you find others in a similar situation and you're able to share.
Personally, I would be afraid to talk to others about this .. cause, if they don't share a common understanding then they think you're crazy.
And, I don't believe I'm crazy .. well, for the most part anyway.
Considering all of the other things that goes on??

vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 142118
horizontal line
 
horizontal line
Reply from Joe Chip
Sep.06.2012
08:17AM EDT 
vertical line It matters not that you may or may not think I'm crazy.
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 142121
horizontal line
 
horizontal line
Reply from simple
Sep.06.2012
08:45AM EDT 
Email simple
vertical line I know.
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 142130
horizontal line
 
horizontal line
Reply from starduster
Sep.06.2012
09:41AM EDT 
vertical line

The foremost evidences of needing psychiatric help are an inability to get along with other people, and an inability to concentrate.

A friend of mine was committed for evaluation, and then let go.  He said he didnt think he was crazy.  I asked if they gave him the standard tests for memory and concentration.  One is to count backward from 100 by 7s, and the other is to see how far back you can remember the Presidents starting with Obama, or whatever heads of state of your country.

He only made it as far as 93 in counting backward, and then began spouting gibberish.  He didnt even try remembering Presidents, but I figured it was academic at that point.

As far as his ability to get along with others go, they didnt call him *Scary Kerry* for nothing.  He was my best friend and I always knew if someone hurt me he would kill them.  Then again, I'd do the same for him, unless he started it, which was usually the case. 

Funny story, he got a broken nose and then got a deviated septum from that.  Then he got his nose broken in another fight, which fixed his deviated septum.  He wasnt very big, but he would definitely tear you apart.

vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 142137
horizontal line
 
horizontal line
Reply from Avisitor
Sep.06.2012
10:12AM EDT 
Email Avisitor
vertical line Quote: "It matters not that you may or may not think I'm crazy.
.........

I know."
.........

Agreed
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 142140
horizontal line
 
horizontal line
Reply from simple
Sep.06.2012
11:22AM EDT 
Email simple
vertical line Last year I have stayed at the psychiatric(mental) hospital for a week.I had psychosis.not any more.only remains cognitive disorder.I can use only some amount of my brain.
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 142147
horizontal line
 
horizontal line
Reply from Joe Chip
Sep.06.2012
12:14PM EDT 
vertical line Do you have a garden?
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 142149
horizontal line
 
horizontal line
Reply from Joe Chip
Sep.06.2012
06:42PM EDT 
vertical line The gardener
a-planting out of roots
midwife's a thousand shoots
every sweet and poison thing
all without and here within
fiery yang and liguid yin
of scented air
on moonlight hair
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 142174
horizontal line
 
horizontal line
Reply from simple
Sep.06.2012
06:58PM EDT 
Email simple
vertical line crap!
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 142175
horizontal line
 
horizontal line
Reply from Joe Chip
Sep.06.2012
07:14PM EDT 
vertical line God is in the rain.
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 142176
horizontal line
 
horizontal line
Reply from simple
Sep.06.2012
07:27PM EDT 
Email simple
vertical line

Quote: "Do you have a garden?"
.........

I dont have a garden.

vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 142177
horizontal line
 
horizontal line
Reply from zenmanstan
Sep.06.2012
11:50PM EDT 
Email zenmanstan
vertical line he taught not self to get people to practice selflessness.
look in the nirvana sutra search for it on google.
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 142193
horizontal line
 
horizontal line
Reply from genericzen
Sep.06.2012
11:53PM EDT 
Email genericzen
vertical line no one looks
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 142195
horizontal line
 
horizontal line
Reply from Joe Chip
Sep.07.2012
06:27AM EDT 
vertical line You should read my book.
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 142214
horizontal line
 
Back To Topic List   Go to Top of Page

 



SUPPORT ZENGUIDE.COM
If you are planning on purchasing any product from amazon.com, you can help us out by using the search box to the right or by clicking on this link to begin shopping.


Purchase posters, art prints, media (music CD & DVD)

buy this ZEN
by Peggy Moquay
Puchase this Item
More Art Prints & Media
Zen & Buddhism books
 
 
d
.
i
.
s
.
c
.
u
.
s
.
s
.
i
.
o
.
n
.

.
f
.
o
.
r
.
u
.
m
.
Copyright © 1999 - 2014 zenguide.com - All rights reserved. °