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  A soldier came to Hakuin and asked "Is there really a paradise and a hell?" "Who are you?" inquired Hakuin. "I am a samurai," the warrior replied. "You, a samurai!" exclaimed Hakuin. "What kind of ruler would have you as his guard?... continue...

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→→→→ vertical line TOPIC: HARDSHIP
vertical line Posted on Sep.24.2012 @ 08:40AM EDT by Dalai Lama
Hardship, in forcing us to exercise greater patience and forbearance in daily life, actually makes us stronger and more robust. From the daily experience of hardship comes a greater capacity to accept difficulties without losing our sense of inner calm. Of course, I do not advocate seeking out hardship as a way of life, but merely wish to suggest that, if you relate to it constructively, it can bring greater inner strength and fortitude.

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Reply from football
Sep.24.2012
11:20AM EDT 
Email football
vertical line Hardship is my second name...suffering hardship
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 142976
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Reply from Joe Chip
Sep.24.2012
11:46AM EDT 
vertical line It's a birthday, let's unwrap the present.
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 142979
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Reply from zenmanstan
Sep.24.2012
07:46PM EDT 
Email zenmanstan
vertical line hey i got a book today from my grandma that i found, not really sure if a present or not. it was my favorite thing
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 142988
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Reply from zenmanstan
Sep.24.2012
07:48PM EDT 
Email zenmanstan
vertical line oh and my grandpa gave me a knife
you start out small and move to bigger knives as you use it in more menacing ways hahaha
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 142989
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Reply from Joe Chip
Sep.25.2012
07:21AM EDT 
vertical line Cut your bread. Sharpen your pencil.
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 143014
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Reply from Joe Chip
Sep.25.2012
10:29AM EDT 
vertical line Bigmouth Strikes Again
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 143030
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Reply from Woodsman
Sep.25.2012
12:35PM EDT 
Email Woodsman
vertical line prison of war
          forges no more
                        to be within
                                 the unwanted sore                         
                                                              as                their
                                                               us          our
                                                                   them
                                                                                         d



                                                                                          e




                                                                                           a

















                                                                                              f
















                 
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 143037
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Reply from football
Sep.25.2012
02:01PM EDT 
Email football
vertical line

Quote: "Bigmouth Strikes Again "
.........

The Queen is dead ha?

haha..nobody believes that..

vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 143044
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Reply from Woodsman
Sep.25.2012
02:13PM EDT 
Email Woodsman
vertical line I am not, a believer. Just a be leave her, down at the bay, where all the sharks and suds can take her away, to the mother land within a day, and be born again, as I am, as I, i...
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 143045
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Reply from football
Sep.25.2012
02:57PM EDT 
Email football
vertical line I feel sore to her(deplore)
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 143048
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Reply from Woodsman
Sep.25.2012
03:19PM EDT 
Email Woodsman
vertical line to her feet be under you
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 143049
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Reply from football
Sep.25.2012
03:45PM EDT 
Email football
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gassho

vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 143050
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Reply from football
Sep.25.2012
03:46PM EDT 
Email football
vertical line my zen is this.
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 143051
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Reply from Woodsman
Sep.25.2012
03:54PM EDT 
Email Woodsman
vertical line she reaches out into the stream
and surrounds you
lifting you out of suffering
the loneliness of I am

in her blessed eyes look in to see love
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 143053
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Reply from football
Sep.25.2012
04:58PM EDT 
Email football
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rich harvest

May her blessing

vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 143056
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Reply from Woodsman
Sep.25.2012
05:16PM EDT 
Email Woodsman
vertical line she's holding out an empty bowl
for me to see inside my role
in taking less and giving more
for we are in together with
as without
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 143057
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Reply from Joe Chip
Sep.25.2012
05:26PM EDT 
vertical line An ear to the golden mean
of infinite space
within-without
the harmony
of knowing silence
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 143058
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Reply from Woodsman
Sep.25.2012
05:55PM EDT 
Email Woodsman
vertical line still I desire a touch
of heaven in the world
outside of the noise
in wooded silence
with nothing
other than the wind to  guide me
where shall i go?
now
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 143061
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Reply from football
Sep.25.2012
06:25PM EDT 
Email football
vertical line Public security
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 143063
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Reply from Avisitor
Sep.25.2012
08:36PM EDT 
Email Avisitor
vertical line Quote: "still I desire a touch
of heaven in the world
outside of the noise
in wooded silence
with nothing
other than the wind to  guide me
where shall i go?
now
"
.........

Down wind away from the carnivores??
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Reply from Woodsman
Sep.25.2012
10:38PM EDT 
Email Woodsman
vertical line I did pick up a rock
and tried to rest it on some tree branches, as an honor
but settled it beside pole out back instead
I saw a face, a woman's face in the clouds
the woods leaves plenty of space for visions
           a hole history in the past, still there, still here
                                                                                                                                          hi
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 143068
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Reply from football
Sep.26.2012
04:19AM EDT 
Email football
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Put that visions in a balloon

leave it to the sky

and stay where it boom

vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 143072
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Reply from Joe Chip
Sep.26.2012
08:13AM EDT 
vertical line Silent as the sweetest and truest of ...

skymmetry
moon clouds form
to ply a wind
and cry sTORm
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 143078
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Reply from football
Sep.26.2012
10:59AM EDT 
Email football
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"Written on the horse tab"

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Reply from Joe Chip
Sep.26.2012
02:08PM EDT 
vertical line First static
then
SILENCE

Ne ne ne?
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Reply from so_teh
Sep.26.2012
06:49PM EDT 
Email so_teh
vertical line Quit breathing my breath.
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 143098
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Reply from so_teh
Sep.27.2012
10:28PM EDT 
Email so_teh
vertical line I have this little 'lol' that wells up in me sometimes. It bothers me. But it passes.
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 143200
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Reply from leoj99
Sep.29.2012
07:55PM EDT 
vertical line I think most hardships are created and inflict upon oneself.

Like most people say life is hard. Life is a winding road. Life is a walk  uphill.

Life is not happening yet yet you know it already.
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Reply from Woodsman
Sep.29.2012
11:39PM EDT 
Email Woodsman
vertical line we sit

as one being

merging with the air we breathe

every sound delivers the gift of vibration of energy in motionlessness
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 143250
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Reply from Joe Chip
Sep.30.2012
06:48AM EDT 
vertical line Giving is receiving. No, no, wait. There is nothing to give, nothing to receive. There is only giving. So, there is nothing to see. There is only seeing.
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Reply from Woodsman
Sep.30.2012
10:42AM EDT 
Email Woodsman
vertical line first cup of coffee after getting up before a work night of giving, yup good tastes
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 143273
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Reply from *CSEe*
Sep.30.2012
10:37PM EDT 
Email *CSEe*
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Hardship is like any other experiences offer a great lesson to understand own self . in Buddhism all experiences whether hardship or living in the luxury is of SAME and EQUAL that offered a great deal of lesson in own learning process . One could seek to explore , to experience , to understand his desire/emotion in any condition whether in hardship or luxury ..............In Buddhism inner self will always be concurrent with own realization , the more you understand yourself the more calm you will be , the more you free from yourself , free from your desire / emotion the more calm you will be .......and in any condition is the same . The children of Bill Gates is in same & equal condition with the children of a begger in Buddhism as they are in SAME and EQUAL condition to learn , to understand , to explore or experience themselves ....as in Buddhism is always OWN will , OWN journey of OWN Choice in OWN world never caused by others .

Thks

CSEe

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Reply from esoteric
Oct.01.2012
12:56AM EDT 
vertical line Quote: "

Hardship is like any other experiences offer a great lesson to understand own self . in Buddhism all experiences whether hardship or living in the luxury is of SAME and EQUAL that offered a great deal of lesson in own learning process . One could seek to explore , to experience , to understand his desire/emotion in any condition whether in hardship or luxury ..............In Buddhism inner self will always be concurrent with own realization , the more you understand yourself the more calm you will be , the more you free from yourself , free from your desire / emotion the more calm you will be .......and in any condition is the same . The children of Bill Gates is in same & equal condition with the children of a begger in Buddhism as they are in SAME and EQUAL condition to learn , to understand , to explore or experience themselves ....as in Buddhism is always OWN will , OWN journey of OWN Choice in OWN world never caused by others .

Thks

CSEe

"
.........

Have you ever tried just sitting zazen?
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 143308
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Reply from *CSEe*
Oct.01.2012
02:09AM EDT 
Email *CSEe*
vertical line Quote: "Quote: "

Hardship is like any other experiences offer a great lesson to understand own self . in Buddhism all experiences whether hardship or living in the luxury is of SAME and EQUAL that offered a great deal of lesson in own learning process . One could seek to explore , to experience , to understand his desire/emotion in any condition whether in hardship or luxury ..............In Buddhism inner self will always be concurrent with own realization , the more you understand yourself the more calm you will be , the more you free from yourself , free from your desire / emotion the more calm you will be .......and in any condition is the same . The children of Bill Gates is in same & equal condition with the children of a begger in Buddhism as they are in SAME and EQUAL condition to learn , to understand , to explore or experience themselves ....as in Buddhism is always OWN will , OWN journey of OWN Choice in OWN world never caused by others .

Thks

CSEe

"
.........

Have you ever tried just sitting zazen?
"
.........

"
.........

Have you ever tried just sitting zazen?
"
.........

I never have any interest in any form of "practice" -meditation etc ...I do not wish to know why but you could share your practice with me .

Thks

CSEe

vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 143316
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Reply from justin
Oct.01.2012
05:23AM EDT 
Email justin
vertical line Quote: "Quote: "Quote: "

Hardship is like any other experiences offer a great lesson to understand own self . in Buddhism all experiences whether hardship or living in the luxury is of SAME and EQUAL that offered a great deal of lesson in own learning process . One could seek to explore , to experience , to understand his desire/emotion in any condition whether in hardship or luxury ..............In Buddhism inner self will always be concurrent with own realization , the more you understand yourself the more calm you will be , the more you free from yourself , free from your desire / emotion the more calm you will be .......and in any condition is the same . The children of Bill Gates is in same & equal condition with the children of a begger in Buddhism as they are in SAME and EQUAL condition to learn , to understand , to explore or experience themselves ....as in Buddhism is always OWN will , OWN journey of OWN Choice in OWN world never caused by others .

Thks

CSEe

"
.........

Have you ever tried just sitting zazen?
"
.........

"
.........

Have you ever tried just sitting zazen?
"
.........

I never have any interest in any form of "practice" -meditation etc ...I do not wish to know why but you could share your practice with me .

Thks

CSEe

"
.........

So you are the mechanic who learns all the car manuals but does not see the car :)

If you are allready decided why do you ask for discussion? (there is only one reason and that is to validate your ego by affirming your point of view). This attitude can only lead to more of the same. I remember you had the same questions last time you asked months ago. let go of your opinions. and you will see
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Reply from Joe Chip
Oct.01.2012
09:32AM EDT 
vertical line Leg humpers, your Hardships.
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 143324
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Reply from Avisitor
Oct.01.2012
12:32PM EDT 
Email Avisitor
vertical line Quote: "Have you ever tried just sitting zazen?
"
.........

I never have any interest in any form of "practice" -meditation etc ...I do not wish to know why but you could share your practice with me .

Thks

CSEe

"
.........

Choosing to never to practice meditation ... has doomed you to never see this side of Nirvana.
Your choice to live in your own opinion has served you like using a fork to eat soup.
Please have some more soup.
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Reply from Joe Chip
Oct.01.2012
12:40PM EDT 
vertical line A non-penetrating analysis.
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 143339
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Reply from Joe Chip
Oct.01.2012
01:21PM EDT 
vertical line When I see Avisitor this side, I have the impression that Nirvana is Hell, seen from the other side.
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 143342
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Reply from esoteric
Oct.01.2012
04:57PM EDT 
vertical line Quote: "Quote: "Quote: "

Hardship is like any other experiences offer a great lesson to understand own self . in Buddhism all experiences whether hardship or living in the luxury is of SAME and EQUAL that offered a great deal of lesson in own learning process . One could seek to explore , to experience , to understand his desire/emotion in any condition whether in hardship or luxury ..............In Buddhism inner self will always be concurrent with own realization , the more you understand yourself the more calm you will be , the more you free from yourself , free from your desire / emotion the more calm you will be .......and in any condition is the same . The children of Bill Gates is in same & equal condition with the children of a begger in Buddhism as they are in SAME and EQUAL condition to learn , to understand , to explore or experience themselves ....as in Buddhism is always OWN will , OWN journey of OWN Choice in OWN world never caused by others .

Thks

CSEe

"
.........

Have you ever tried just sitting zazen?
"
.........

"
.........

Have you ever tried just sitting zazen?
"
.........

I never have any interest in any form of "practice" -meditation etc ...I do not wish to know why but you could share your practice with me .

Thks

CSEe

"
.........

Incorrect. Your practice is "debating with others about Buddhism." You would be better off if you go do something useful, like wash the dishes. :-)
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 143346
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Reply from *CSEe*
Oct.01.2012
10:36PM EDT 
Email *CSEe*
vertical line Quote: "Quote: "Have you ever tried just sitting zazen?
"
.........

I never have any interest in any form of "practice" -meditation etc ...I do not wish to know why but you could share your practice with me .

Thks

CSEe

"
.........

Choosing to never to practice meditation ... has doomed you to never see this side of Nirvana.
Your choice to live in your own opinion has served you like using a fork to eat soup.
Please have some more soup.
"
.........

"
.........

Choosing to never to practice meditation ... has doomed you to never see this side of Nirvana.
Your choice to live in your own opinion has served you like using a fork to eat soup.
Please have some more soup.
"
.........

Dear Avisitor , to me there are countless way , trillions method to Buddhism ...so if I dont find your path suitable with me that is fine with me ........I found that Buddhism is learned by creation of many tradition . Meditation , all the terminology is too-too hard for me .Buddhism is fun , should be fun ...the more I understand buddhism , the more fun I am .

Thks

CSEe

vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 143360
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Reply from *CSEe*
Oct.01.2012
10:37PM EDT 
Email *CSEe*
vertical line Quote: "Quote: "Quote: "Quote: "

Hardship is like any other experiences offer a great lesson to understand own self . in Buddhism all experiences whether hardship or living in the luxury is of SAME and EQUAL that offered a great deal of lesson in own learning process . One could seek to explore , to experience , to understand his desire/emotion in any condition whether in hardship or luxury ..............In Buddhism inner self will always be concurrent with own realization , the more you understand yourself the more calm you will be , the more you free from yourself , free from your desire / emotion the more calm you will be .......and in any condition is the same . The children of Bill Gates is in same & equal condition with the children of a begger in Buddhism as they are in SAME and EQUAL condition to learn , to understand , to explore or experience themselves ....as in Buddhism is always OWN will , OWN journey of OWN Choice in OWN world never caused by others .

Thks

CSEe

"
.........

Have you ever tried just sitting zazen?
"
.........

"
.........

Have you ever tried just sitting zazen?
"
.........

I never have any interest in any form of "practice" -meditation etc ...I do not wish to know why but you could share your practice with me .

Thks

CSEe

"
.........

Incorrect. Your practice is "debating with others about Buddhism." You would be better off if you go do something useful, like wash the dishes. :-)
"
.........

"
.........

Incorrect. Your practice is "debating with others about Buddhism." You would be better off if you go do something useful, like wash the dishes. :-)
"
.........

Thanks ........is all part of own learning process .

CSEe

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Reply from Chryseis
Oct.01.2012
10:43PM EDT 
vertical line that's fun...ny
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 143363
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Reply from Joe Chip
Oct.02.2012
06:51AM EDT 
vertical line Hard Ons for Hardships, your Worsh:ts.
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 143375
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Reply from starduster
Oct.02.2012
10:20AM EDT 
vertical line Quote: "Quote: "Quote: "Quote: "Quote: "

Hardship is like any other experiences offer a great lesson to understand own self . in Buddhism all experiences whether hardship or living in the luxury is of SAME and EQUAL that offered a great deal of lesson in own learning process . One could seek to explore , to experience , to understand his desire/emotion in any condition whether in hardship or luxury ..............In Buddhism inner self will always be concurrent with own realization , the more you understand yourself the more calm you will be , the more you free from yourself , free from your desire / emotion the more calm you will be .......and in any condition is the same . The children of Bill Gates is in same & equal condition with the children of a begger in Buddhism as they are in SAME and EQUAL condition to learn , to understand , to explore or experience themselves ....as in Buddhism is always OWN will , OWN journey of OWN Choice in OWN world never caused by others .

Thks

CSEe

"
.........

Have you ever tried just sitting zazen?
"
.........

"
.........

Have you ever tried just sitting zazen?
"
.........

I never have any interest in any form of "practice" -meditation etc ...I do not wish to know why but you could share your practice with me .

Thks

CSEe

"
.........

Incorrect. Your practice is "debating with others about Buddhism." You would be better off if you go do something useful, like wash the dishes. :-)
"
.........

"
.........

Incorrect. Your practice is "debating with others about Buddhism." You would be better off if you go do something useful, like wash the dishes. :-)
"
.........

Thanks ........is all part of own learning process .

CSEe

"
.........

"
.........

Maybe so, but this site is dedicated to discussion about Zen and Buddhism, including debating them,

so say what you have to say, CSEe, youre in the right place,

and where you are on your path is not where you were or where you will be, its just where you are now.

vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 143392
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Reply from Avisitor
Oct.02.2012
10:46AM EDT 
Email Avisitor
vertical line Quote: "Dear Avisitor , to me there are countless way , trillions method to Buddhism ...so if I dont find your path suitable with me that is fine with me ........I found that Buddhism is learned by creation of many tradition . Meditation , all the terminology is too-too hard for me .Buddhism is fun , should be fun ...the more I understand buddhism , the more fun I am .

Thks

CSEe

"
.........
You're a fool to keep believing that there are trillions ow ways to become AWAKENED.
If that were so then trillions of people would have become AWAKENED. But, they are not.
And you also will never find the truth. Buddhism is not about debate. There is no secret knowledge. Everything you need to find your true nature, to AWAKEN, satori, Nirvana, is there within your reach. Practice meditation. Even Buddha needed to meditate to become AWAKENED.
Don't kid yourself and don't put others on false path. You either find your true nature, Buddha nature or you must prepare your casket and plot of land. Death becomes you.
All your opinions and thoughts and knowledge won't save you from the ground.
But, be of good cheer ... you will go thinking that you were right .. no matter what happeneds ... hahahaha
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Reply from *CSEe*
Oct.02.2012
01:04PM EDT 
Email *CSEe*
vertical line

Dear Avisitor , you said " You're a fool to keep believing that there are trillions ow ways to become AWAKENED.
If that were so then trillions of people would have become AWAKENED. But, they are not."Un-quote

You are right , in Buddhism perhaps is fool of me believing I "own" my body , or "my daughter" is belong to me .............yes I am a fool but by further understanding of Buddhism , I will be more and more becoming nobody NEVER becoming wiser .

in Buddhism , all being exist becouse of attachment on polluted energy as human I exist becouse of my will to exist , my emotions , my desire , my love / compassion to continue to exist .........that is why we exist . Buddhismis a PROCESS to end our existance to be back to the original state before polluted - the emptiness .So even trillions of people awaken still they will continue to exist as long as they have will to exist ...perhaps if all enlighterned being accepted " the self" and free from ownself.....there is no human existant anymore .

You said " And you also will never find the truth. Buddhism is not about debate. There is no secret knowledge. Everything you need to find your true nature, to AWAKEN, satori, Nirvana, is there within your reach. Practice meditation. Even Buddha needed to meditate to become AWAKENED."

Yes in my current opinion emptiness is major part of all being . In human whether a monk or a serial killer still emptiness is major part of them , is just the tiny little polluted energy that makes them believe who they are insead of what are they .


You said "Don't kid yourself and don't put others on false path. You either find your true nature, Buddha nature or you must prepare your casket and plot of land. Death becomes you.
All your opinions and thoughts and knowledge won't save you from the ground.
But, be of good cheer ... you will go thinking that you were right .. no matter what happeneds ... hahahaha" un-quote

Thanks for reminding me again on my casket , come to think of it is not a bad idea to go out and find one ..............dear Avisitor , why cant we debate or perhaps you could recomment me to any" teacher" that willing to debate with me .

Thks

CSEe

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Reply from Joe Chip
Oct.02.2012
01:14PM EDT 
vertical line What's wrong with e-mail?
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 143402
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Reply from Avisitor
Oct.02.2012
04:02PM EDT 
Email Avisitor
vertical line Quote: "Avisitor , why cant we debate or perhaps you could recomment me to any" teacher" that willing to debate with me .

Thks

CSEe

"
.........

There is no room for debate. We are talking about the very essence of your life.
Do you really want to continue to argue point after point??
Stop and re-examine what you have been doing.
Ask yourself if this is the right way?
If you don't see how there is a mechanism for change .. to become AWAKENED
Then, you had better change ... you line of thinking.

There is no more to discuss. You have all the tools you need to Awaken.
It is your choice whether you take it .. or continue on your present course.
Good luck to you.
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 143409
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Reply from *CSEe*
Oct.02.2012
07:33PM EDT 
Email *CSEe*
vertical line Quote: "Quote: "Avisitor , why cant we debate or perhaps you could recomment me to any" teacher" that willing to debate with me .

Thks

CSEe

"
.........

There is no room for debate. We are talking about the very essence of your life.
Do you really want to continue to argue point after point??
Stop and re-examine what you have been doing.
Ask yourself if this is the right way?
If you don't see how there is a mechanism for change .. to become AWAKENED
Then, you had better change ... you line of thinking.

There is no more to discuss. You have all the tools you need to Awaken.
It is your choice whether you take it .. or continue on your present course.
Good luck to you.
"
.........

"
.........

There is no room for debate. We are talking about the very essence of your life.
Do you really want to continue to argue point after point??
Stop and re-examine what you have been doing.
Ask yourself if this is the right way?
If you don't see how there is a mechanism for change .. to become AWAKENED
Then, you had better change ... you line of thinking.

There is no more to discuss. You have all the tools you need to Awaken.
It is your choice whether you take it .. or continue on your present course.
Good luck to you.
"
.........

Luck is not what I need in Buddhism ....sorry in advance I have tried to explore your understanding but I find no reason to agree with it right now perhaps I will agree with you after I move to greater understanding but NOT now .....Still I wish to debate with anyone on ANY topic and EVERY topic ........regards to Buddhism .

Thks

CSEe

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Reply from starduster
Oct.03.2012
06:00AM EDT 
vertical line Quote: "Quote: "Dear Avisitor , to me there are countless way , trillions method to Buddhism ...so if I dont find your path suitable with me that is fine with me ........I found that Buddhism is learned by creation of many tradition . Meditation , all the terminology is too-too hard for me .Buddhism is fun , should be fun ...the more I understand buddhism , the more fun I am .

Thks

CSEe

"
.........
You're a fool to keep believing that there are trillions ow ways to become AWAKENED.
If that were so then trillions of people would have become AWAKENED. But, they are not.
And you also will never find the truth. Buddhism is not about debate. There is no secret knowledge. Everything you need to find your true nature, to AWAKEN, satori, Nirvana, is there within your reach. Practice meditation. Even Buddha needed to meditate to become AWAKENED.
Don't kid yourself and don't put others on false path. You either find your true nature, Buddha nature or you must prepare your casket and plot of land. Death becomes you.
All your opinions and thoughts and knowledge won't save you from the ground.
But, be of good cheer ... you will go thinking that you were right .. no matter what happeneds ... hahahaha
"
.........

"
.........
You're a fool to keep believing that there are trillions ow ways to become AWAKENED.
If that were so then trillions of people would have become AWAKENED. But, they are not.
And you also will never find the truth. Buddhism is not about debate. There is no secret knowledge. Everything you need to find your true nature, to AWAKEN, satori, Nirvana, is there within your reach. Practice meditation. Even Buddha needed to meditate to become AWAKENED.
Don't kid yourself and don't put others on false path. You either find your true nature, Buddha nature or you must prepare your casket and plot of land. Death becomes you.
All your opinions and thoughts and knowledge won't save you from the ground.
But, be of good cheer ... you will go thinking that you were right .. no matter what happeneds ... hahahaha
"
.........

There is no method to becoming awakened, and any path can lead to it.  Buddhism, Christianity, Satanism, or any other religion, all are equal as paths to awakening.

My mother meditated all her life and did not become awakened.  My father, a devout Catholic, did not meditate, rejected it altogether vehemently, and yet became awakened just before he died.

It comes from within, and there is no way to cause it to happen.  Work and slave all you will, to no avail.  It will come in its own good time, in this lifetime or another, which matters not at all.

From the top of the mountain you can see that all paths lead there, and none better than another.  Choose the path that is best for you, the most fulfilling, the one that feels right to you inside.  But hold no reverence for the path itself, but only if at all for the mountain top to which it leads.

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Reply from Avisitor
Oct.03.2012
07:53AM EDT 
Email Avisitor
vertical line Any path can lead to it.
But, also any path can lead away from it.
The destinations aren't always the same for everyone.
Dualistic thinking but ... there is a right way and there is a wrong way.
The wrong way is going to your desk to try to take a crap and going to the toilet to try to do your work. But, hey, whatever works for you ... hehehe
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Reply from *CSEe*
Oct.04.2012
12:34AM EDT 
Email *CSEe*
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There is no method to becoming awakened, and any path can lead to it.  Buddhism, Christianity, Satanism, or any other religion, all are equal as paths to awakening.

Dear Starduster  , you said " My mother meditated all her life and did not become awakened.  My father, a devout Catholic, did not meditate, rejected it altogether vehemently, and yet became awakened just before he died.

It comes from within, and there is no way to cause it to happen.  Work and slave all you will, to no avail.  It will come in its own good time, in this lifetime or another, which matters not at all.

From the top of the mountain you can see that all paths lead there, and none better than another.  Choose the path that is best for you, the most fulfilling, the one that feels right to you inside.  But hold no reverence for the path itself, but only if at all for the mountain top to which it leads." Un-quote .

what is awaken ? How can you know if others awaken ? In my current understanding of Buddhism....awaken is means that AWAKE to AWARE .......if you in each moment in your life , awake to aware " what are you" instead of " who you are"......thats is awaken . Awaken is a very basic realization on self ....a factor to spark discovery , a factor to exploration on self , a factor to realize ........is all depend on own self , own will to be awake to aware .....Buddhism is beyond choosing right path , Buiddhism is to explore the desire to choose a path , the desire NEVER the goal .

Thks

CSEe 

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Reply from *CSEe*
Oct.04.2012
12:44AM EDT 
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Dear Avisitor you said " Any path can lead to it." Un-quote

Yes currently I can easily agree with you on this ....there are countless way of Buddhism.

You said "But, also any path can lead away from it.
The destinations aren't always the same for everyone." un-quote

Sorry , I cant find any reason in my common sense to agree with you right now . In my current understanding , there is ONLY one final destination of all being - final condition of all ,,,and that is EMPTINESS ......all path will end up in emptiness whether long / suffering path or shorter / less suffering way ....

You said "Dualistic thinking but ... there is a right way and there is a wrong way.
The wrong way is going to your desk to try to take a crap and going to the toilet to try to do your work. But, hey, whatever works for you ... hehehe" un-quote

In my current undesranding of Buddhism there will NEVER be right way or wrong way is all part of the learning process . If I do something that I could regret ....I will suffer from regrets ,,,,,,,and I will learn from it but if I do something that I will never regret ,,,I should also learn the reason / the cause of the action and it also be a part of my learning process .................

Thks

CSEe

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Reply from Avisitor
Oct.04.2012
03:54AM EDT 
Email Avisitor
vertical line Quote: "

Dear Avisitor you said " Any path can lead to it." Un-quote

Yes currently I can easily agree with you on this ....there are countless way of Buddhism.

You said "But, also any path can lead away from it.
The destinations aren't always the same for everyone." un-quote

Sorry , I cant find any reason in my common sense to agree with you right now . In my current understanding , there is ONLY one final destination of all being - final condition of all ,,,and that is EMPTINESS ......all path will end up in emptiness whether long / suffering path or shorter / less suffering way ....

You said "Dualistic thinking but ... there is a right way and there is a wrong way.
The wrong way is going to your desk to try to take a crap and going to the toilet to try to do your work. But, hey, whatever works for you ... hehehe" un-quote

In my current undesranding of Buddhism there will NEVER be right way or wrong way is all part of the learning process . If I do something that I could regret ....I will suffer from regrets ,,,,,,,and I will learn from it but if I do something that I will never regret ,,,I should also learn the reason / the cause of the action and it also be a part of my learning process .................

Thks

CSEe

"
.........
If you do not see the truth of my statements then you have led a sheltered life.
There are those out there who would kill you just cause you looked at them the wrong way.
Do you believe that is the right path?
There is right and wrong. You just don't want to see it .. cause it disagrees with your precious ideas about Buddhism.
So on something as simple as this we can not agree then there is no discussion.
Please go your own way. I don't have time to waste.
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Reply from starduster
Oct.04.2012
04:36AM EDT 
vertical line Quote: "

There is no method to becoming awakened, and any path can lead to it.  Buddhism, Christianity, Satanism, or any other religion, all are equal as paths to awakening.

Dear Starduster  , you said " My mother meditated all her life and did not become awakened.  My father, a devout Catholic, did not meditate, rejected it altogether vehemently, and yet became awakened just before he died.

It comes from within, and there is no way to cause it to happen.  Work and slave all you will, to no avail.  It will come in its own good time, in this lifetime or another, which matters not at all.

From the top of the mountain you can see that all paths lead there, and none better than another.  Choose the path that is best for you, the most fulfilling, the one that feels right to you inside.  But hold no reverence for the path itself, but only if at all for the mountain top to which it leads." Un-quote .

what is awaken ? How can you know if others awaken ? In my current understanding of Buddhism....awaken is means that AWAKE to AWARE .......if you in each moment in your life , awake to aware " what are you" instead of " who you are"......thats is awaken . Awaken is a very basic realization on self ....a factor to spark discovery , a factor to exploration on self , a factor to realize ........is all depend on own self , own will to be awake to aware .....Buddhism is beyond choosing right path , Buiddhism is to explore the desire to choose a path , the desire NEVER the goal .

Thks

CSEe 

"
.........

"
.........

Some ask how to know if you are awakened, or others are.

Awakening leaves no doubt because there is nothing left to doubt, literally nothing.

We call ourselves awakened, those of us who share this understanding, but we also know that it is as much an illusion as anything else.

Its all an illusion, except that which you believe in, which is delusion.

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Reply from *CSEe*
Oct.04.2012
05:17AM EDT 
Email *CSEe*
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Dear starduster , you said " Some ask how to know if you are awakened, or others are.Awakening leaves no doubt because there is nothing left to doubt, literally nothing.We call ourselves awakened, those of us who share this understanding, but we also know that it is as much an illusion as anything else.Its all an illusion, except that which you believe in, which is delusion." Un-quote

Perhaps is understanding on meaning of words ...you have your understanding on " awakening" and I had mine .....

To me I am currently using the words " Enlighterned" for a condition of acceptance , a condition without any choice to choose , a condition without any doubt .....awakening is being AWAKE to aware what am I , what is the purpose of my existance , what is me and the end of me. Awakening is  realization on the purpose of our existant , the purpose of our life .....Awakening is NOT illusion by any way .Living life without self exploration , with faith , with desire to defend ownself , with embition to have a great future in life , with desire to have "good" health , wealthy life IS Illusion ......awakening is knowing the purpose of life .

Thks

CSEe

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Reply from *CSEe*
Oct.04.2012
05:39AM EDT 
Email *CSEe*
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Dear Avisitor , thanks for reply , you said " If you do not see the truth of my statements then you have led a sheltered life." un-quote

To me there is NO truth or FALSE in any statement even that statement from Mr Dalai Lama or Mr Siddharta himself . All statement / words / idea / thought is just an information for own investigation or exploration NEVER to be regarded as truth ... there is No truth or false in any action or words as all is part of the process known to me as Buddhism .

You said "There are those out there who would kill you just cause you looked at them the wrong way.Do you believe that is the right path? Un-quote

In knowledge , by human culture we were made to understand what is right and what is wrong . Yes by common knowledge that guy who kill me is wrong ....in my current understanding of Buddhism , the action of the guy is NEVER right or WRONG as all his action is part of his learning lesson and my learning process . The killer no matter whether he enjoy killing me or not at time of his action will move into greater understanding of himself .....so when he advance into greater understanding , he will regretted his action on me and his regret will cause suffering to him . His regret will be part of his learning process to understand his emotions ..........same as me or all my loved one , his action to me will provide a great learning lesson for all my family members / love one to understand their own compassion , love ......therefore in Buddhism there is NO action is right or wrong as all action is part of learning process for all .

You said "There is right and wrong. You just don't want to see it .. cause it disagrees with your precious ideas about Buddhism." un-quote

Dear Avisitor , sometime we could learn alot by reading our own writing ....why dont you read your own writing on me .............and try to understand me . I have said too many time I NEVER defend my ideas of Buddhism in any possible way ...I always challenge it for better understanding .

you said "So on something as simple as this we can not agree then there is no discussion.Please go your own way. I don't have time to waste.
" un-quote

Dear Avisitor , sorry in advance in any discussion or debate I never have any intention , wish , hope to influence others or to get others agree with me .......I prefer dis-agreement becouse I could learn more . I hope you not mad at me as I always regard you as a great source to learn ................

Thks

CSEe

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Reply from Joe Chip
Oct.05.2012
07:24AM EDT 
vertical line ^This has the appearance of a real question.
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Reply from starduster
Oct.05.2012
07:41AM EDT 
vertical line Quote: "

Dear starduster , you said " Some ask how to know if you are awakened, or others are.Awakening leaves no doubt because there is nothing left to doubt, literally nothing.We call ourselves awakened, those of us who share this understanding, but we also know that it is as much an illusion as anything else.Its all an illusion, except that which you believe in, which is delusion." Un-quote

Perhaps is understanding on meaning of words ...you have your understanding on " awakening" and I had mine .....

To me I am currently using the words " Enlighterned" for a condition of acceptance , a condition without any choice to choose , a condition without any doubt .....awakening is being AWAKE to aware what am I , what is the purpose of my existance , what is me and the end of me. Awakening is  realization on the purpose of our existant , the purpose of our life .....Awakening is NOT illusion by any way .Living life without self exploration , with faith , with desire to defend ownself , with embition to have a great future in life , with desire to have "good" health , wealthy life IS Illusion ......awakening is knowing the purpose of life .

Thks

CSEe

"
.........

"
.........

I dont have to understand awakening.  I only have to recall the experience of being  *nothingness*. 

From that I have understanding of awakening, as do others whom I know and have talked about it.

If Ive got it wrong, then theyve got it wrong too, because we are on the same page with It, right or wrong.  We dont really care if we are right or wrong.  Its what we have.

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Reply from esoteric
Oct.05.2012
09:28AM EDT 
vertical line Quote: "Quote: "

Dear starduster , you said " Some ask how to know if you are awakened, or others are.Awakening leaves no doubt because there is nothing left to doubt, literally nothing.We call ourselves awakened, those of us who share this understanding, but we also know that it is as much an illusion as anything else.Its all an illusion, except that which you believe in, which is delusion." Un-quote

Perhaps is understanding on meaning of words ...you have your understanding on " awakening" and I had mine .....

To me I am currently using the words " Enlighterned" for a condition of acceptance , a condition without any choice to choose , a condition without any doubt .....awakening is being AWAKE to aware what am I , what is the purpose of my existance , what is me and the end of me. Awakening is  realization on the purpose of our existant , the purpose of our life .....Awakening is NOT illusion by any way .Living life without self exploration , with faith , with desire to defend ownself , with embition to have a great future in life , with desire to have "good" health , wealthy life IS Illusion ......awakening is knowing the purpose of life .

Thks

CSEe

"
.........

"
.........

I dont have to understand awakening.  I only have to recall the experience of being  *nothingness*. 

From that I have understanding of awakening, as do others whom I know and have talked about it.

If Ive got it wrong, then theyve got it wrong too, because we are on the same page with It, right or wrong.  We dont really care if we are right or wrong.  Its what we have.

"
.........

Still dreaming, remembering an experience. You stopped caring, that's why you got stuck. Until you get hit with a stick, and then you get pissed off. "Hey, stop that! I don't want to know that I'm wrong, so shut up and leave me to my dream of being awakened!"

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Reply from Joe Chip
Oct.05.2012
09:32AM EDT 
vertical line Yeah, you're thicker 'n' meaner than a stick.
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Reply from starduster
Oct.05.2012
10:06AM EDT 
vertical line Quote: "Quote: "Quote: "

Dear starduster , you said " Some ask how to know if you are awakened, or others are.Awakening leaves no doubt because there is nothing left to doubt, literally nothing.We call ourselves awakened, those of us who share this understanding, but we also know that it is as much an illusion as anything else.Its all an illusion, except that which you believe in, which is delusion." Un-quote

Perhaps is understanding on meaning of words ...you have your understanding on " awakening" and I had mine .....

To me I am currently using the words " Enlighterned" for a condition of acceptance , a condition without any choice to choose , a condition without any doubt .....awakening is being AWAKE to aware what am I , what is the purpose of my existance , what is me and the end of me. Awakening is  realization on the purpose of our existant , the purpose of our life .....Awakening is NOT illusion by any way .Living life without self exploration , with faith , with desire to defend ownself , with embition to have a great future in life , with desire to have "good" health , wealthy life IS Illusion ......awakening is knowing the purpose of life .

Thks

CSEe

"
.........

"
.........

I dont have to understand awakening.  I only have to recall the experience of being  *nothingness*. 

From that I have understanding of awakening, as do others whom I know and have talked about it.

If Ive got it wrong, then theyve got it wrong too, because we are on the same page with It, right or wrong.  We dont really care if we are right or wrong.  Its what we have.

"
.........

Still dreaming, remembering an experience. You stopped caring, that's why you got stuck. Until you get hit with a stick, and then you get pissed off. "Hey, stop that! I don't want to know that I'm wrong, so shut up and leave me to my dream of being awakened!"
"
.........

"
.........

Still dreaming, remembering an experience. You stopped caring, that's why you got stuck. Until you get hit with a stick, and then you get pissed off. "Hey, stop that! I don't want to know that I'm wrong, so shut up and leave me to my dream of being awakened!"
"
.........

Yeah, youre right, esoteric, and all the awakened people are wrong.

At the parade ground, on graduation day from boot camp, a mother was heard to say, *Oh look, everyone of those boys is out of step except my Johnny !!*

esoteric, your mother must be very proud !!

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Reply from *CSEe*
Oct.05.2012
11:42AM EDT 
Email *CSEe*
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Dear Starduster , you said "I dont have to understand awakening.  I only have to recall the experience of being  *nothingness*.  From that I have understanding of awakening, as do others whom I know and have talked about it.If Ive got it wrong, then theyve got it wrong too, because we are on the same page with It, right or wrong.  We dont really care if we are right or wrong.  Its what we have." Un-quote .

I wish to learn how you do that , experience of being "nothingness".....without being awake . In my current understanding " nothingness" is NOT resulted from experience or emotions but is a reflection of acceptance ......one will be in nothingness is he feel no desire , no compassion , no emotions , freedom from self ...nothingness to be is enlightened ...a state of no choices , a condition of freedom from any emotions ..........

Awakening is resulted from own self realization NOT from knowledge .....awakening is being awake to aware , aware to realize , realize to accept and accept to further aware .......

Thks

CSEe

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Reply from Avisitor
Oct.05.2012
04:57PM EDT 
Email Avisitor
vertical line Quote: "Awakening is resulted from own self realization NOT from knowledge 

CSEe

"
.........
So, where does self realization come from???
Think about it for a while.
It doesn't come from knowledge.
Then where would it come from?
Certainly not debate cause that would only be more knowledge.
Where??
Much like the question .. where did you come from before you were born??
Figure it out.
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Reply from floating_a
Oct.05.2012
05:13PM EDT 
vertical line Quote: "Quote: "Quote: "Quote: "

Dear starduster , you said " Some ask how to know if you are awakened, or others are.Awakening leaves no doubt because there is nothing left to doubt, literally nothing.We call ourselves awakened, those of us who share this understanding, but we also know that it is as much an illusion as anything else.Its all an illusion, except that which you believe in, which is delusion." Un-quote

Perhaps is understanding on meaning of words ...you have your understanding on " awakening" and I had mine .....

To me I am currently using the words " Enlighterned" for a condition of acceptance , a condition without any choice to choose , a condition without any doubt .....awakening is being AWAKE to aware what am I , what is the purpose of my existance , what is me and the end of me. Awakening is  realization on the purpose of our existant , the purpose of our life .....Awakening is NOT illusion by any way .Living life without self exploration , with faith , with desire to defend ownself , with embition to have a great future in life , with desire to have "good" health , wealthy life IS Illusion ......awakening is knowing the purpose of life .

Thks

CSEe

"
.........

"
.........

I dont have to understand awakening.  I only have to recall the experience of being  *nothingness*. 

From that I have understanding of awakening, as do others whom I know and have talked about it.

If Ive got it wrong, then theyve got it wrong too, because we are on the same page with It, right or wrong.  We dont really care if we are right or wrong.  Its what we have.

"
.........

Still dreaming, remembering an experience. You stopped caring, that's why you got stuck. Until you get hit with a stick, and then you get pissed off. "Hey, stop that! I don't want to know that I'm wrong, so shut up and leave me to my dream of being awakened!"
"
.........

"
.........

Still dreaming, remembering an experience. You stopped caring, that's why you got stuck. Until you get hit with a stick, and then you get pissed off. "Hey, stop that! I don't want to know that I'm wrong, so shut up and leave me to my dream of being awakened!"
"
.........

Yeah, youre right, esoteric, and all the awakened people are wrong.

At the parade ground, on graduation day from boot camp, a mother was heard to say, *Oh look, everyone of those boys is out of step except my Johnny !!*

esoteric, your mother must be very proud !!

"
.........

I have never met a truly awakened being who did not have compassion as their core, and care in their being.

For that reason, I do not think you can classify yourself with all the others. YMMV but I doubt any awakening which only cares for itself....

Bows.

Best wishes,
Abu
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Reply from esoteric
Oct.05.2012
09:01PM EDT 
vertical line Quote: "Quote: "Quote: "Quote: "

Dear starduster , you said " Some ask how to know if you are awakened, or others are.Awakening leaves no doubt because there is nothing left to doubt, literally nothing.We call ourselves awakened, those of us who share this understanding, but we also know that it is as much an illusion as anything else.Its all an illusion, except that which you believe in, which is delusion." Un-quote

Perhaps is understanding on meaning of words ...you have your understanding on " awakening" and I had mine .....

To me I am currently using the words " Enlighterned" for a condition of acceptance , a condition without any choice to choose , a condition without any doubt .....awakening is being AWAKE to aware what am I , what is the purpose of my existance , what is me and the end of me. Awakening is  realization on the purpose of our existant , the purpose of our life .....Awakening is NOT illusion by any way .Living life without self exploration , with faith , with desire to defend ownself , with embition to have a great future in life , with desire to have "good" health , wealthy life IS Illusion ......awakening is knowing the purpose of life .

Thks

CSEe

"
.........

"
.........

I dont have to understand awakening.  I only have to recall the experience of being  *nothingness*. 

From that I have understanding of awakening, as do others whom I know and have talked about it.

If Ive got it wrong, then theyve got it wrong too, because we are on the same page with It, right or wrong.  We dont really care if we are right or wrong.  Its what we have.

"
.........

Still dreaming, remembering an experience. You stopped caring, that's why you got stuck. Until you get hit with a stick, and then you get pissed off. "Hey, stop that! I don't want to know that I'm wrong, so shut up and leave me to my dream of being awakened!"
"
.........

"
.........

Still dreaming, remembering an experience. You stopped caring, that's why you got stuck. Until you get hit with a stick, and then you get pissed off. "Hey, stop that! I don't want to know that I'm wrong, so shut up and leave me to my dream of being awakened!"
"
.........

Yeah, youre right, esoteric, and all the awakened people are wrong.

At the parade ground, on graduation day from boot camp, a mother was heard to say, *Oh look, everyone of those boys is out of step except my Johnny !!*

esoteric, your mother must be very proud !!

"
.........

I don't know anything about being "awakened" except for hearing the alarm in the morning and paying attention until I go to sleep and hear the alarm again.

I also don't know any "awakened people." But I do know people who think they're special for some reason, because of some special feeling, experience, memory, or idea they have. But in that sense, "awakened" usually just means "separated, different, and isolated."

That has nothing to do with any of the wisdom or insights in Buddhism or Zen. And for good reason.
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Reply from *CSEe*
Oct.05.2012
09:43PM EDT 
Email *CSEe*
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Dear Avisitor , you said " So, where does self realization come from???
Think about it for a while.
It doesn't come from knowledge.
Then where would it come from?" Un-quote

In my CURRENT opinion , self realization is a flection / a collection of all one desire , emotions , compassion , love , knowledge , will etc that sparked by a factor whether internally from him or outter source .

It was never depend on knowledge alone but a total "self" and sparked by a factor . Self realization is always caused by own self being awake to aware ...........is how you see yourself from outside yourself .......not like seeing you in the mirror but accidently found you outside your window ...........self realization is not resulted from planning , or desire or practice but a wake up call NOT from own alarm but from the noises outside the room ...............

Just like when I sleep at night and is 4am in the early morning , suddently I heard a voices ...........which I never plan or expected but it happens and I experience it ..........

Perhaps you could open up your closet and you will be surprise finding your old shirts or the new one you forgoten .................

All being is full of EMPTINESS but with tiny bit of polluted energy attached to it , self realization is realising it other than the normal which normally known .

You said " Certainly not debate cause that would only be more knowledge.
Where??Un-quote

As for me in internat the best option to further understand Buddhism is by debating .......Dear friend what else can we do except reading , learning text , thinking on the content ...gainning more knowledge ............by debating we could find the old shirt we had forgoten , the self that we never know , the long lost brother .....by debating we will force to explore the areas that we never been or dare not to go .....by debating we allow ourself to experience anger , ego , pride , love , desire .......by debating we could counter check our opinion ,.........by debating we will be more than ourself ..........

You said "Much like the question .. where did you come from before you were born??
Figure it out." Un-quote

Before CSEe , in my current understanding is a polluted energy of desire to exist , I exist becouse there is a will , a desire to exist and due to this desire , emotions I will always exist .......and continue to exist . In my current understanding ( not yet ready to accept ) there is no death , no birth in Buddhism as all the organ , the material form known as body is NEVER attached to me ...they just like others living or non-living same as me existed due to their polluted energy and same as me they are in their own purification process to free its polluted energy to be empty ...........and is not " figure it out".......but rather is resulted from self realization .

Thks

CSEe


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Reply from esoteric
Oct.06.2012
12:31AM EDT 
vertical line You keep saying "in my current understanding," but apparently what you really mean is "the ideas that I got from reading and talking to people."

You're missing the whole point. Understanding does not come from reading, talking, debating, thinking, or reasoning. That's where IDEAS come from. But understanding Buddhism has nothing to do with ideas. In fact, ideas get in the way of direct insight and understanding. That is the point of practicing Zen.

So, you are interested in purification. And yet, you haven't spoken at all about what you do to purify yourself or the world. Do you practice the Eightfold Path? Have you taken any vows? Do you practice meditation for purifying the mind?

You like to talk. But that seems to be all there is to your understanding. A bunch of talk. Tell me....what do you DO with your understanding?


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Reply from *CSEe*
Oct.06.2012
02:26AM EDT 
Email *CSEe*
vertical line

Dear esoteric , you said Quote: "You keep saying "in my current understanding," but apparently what you really mean is "the ideas that I got from reading and talking to people."Un-quote

YES , what is my current understanding is always a collection of all my knowledge , experience , by all my action , by taliking to others , by debating with others ......that fit in my own common sense ......is NEVER own by me but is mine for only a paticular time .......is also will be yours as soon as it fit in in your common sense...but I never defended it ........but always challenge it and move into greater realization ........

You said " You're missing the whole point. Understanding does not come from reading, talking, debating, thinking, or reasoning. That's where IDEAS come from. But understanding Buddhism has nothing to do with ideas. In fact, ideas get in the way of direct insight and understanding. That is the point of practicing Zen." Un-quote

Have you read my posting ? Idea is a tiny part of self realization ..is the defending the idea is limiting self discovery ........

You said ' So, you are interested in purification. And yet, you haven't spoken at all about what you do to purify yourself or the world. Do you practice the Eightfold Path? Have you taken any vows? Do you practice meditation for purifying the mind?
" Un-quote

Buddhism is a PROCESS to purify for all being regardless living or non-living ........ so the whole PROCESS is to purify own self and all kind of meditation , teaching , understanding ...is just a tiny bit of the whole process ...........


You like to talk. But that seems to be all there is to your understanding. A bunch of talk. Tell me....what do you DO with your understanding?

nothing just challenging it ...........

Thks

CSEe


"
.........

"
.........
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Reply from esoteric
Oct.06.2012
03:35AM EDT 
vertical line Okay. :-)
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Reply from starduster
Oct.06.2012
05:11AM EDT 
vertical line Quote: "Quote: "Quote: "Quote: "Quote: "

Dear starduster , you said " Some ask how to know if you are awakened, or others are.Awakening leaves no doubt because there is nothing left to doubt, literally nothing.We call ourselves awakened, those of us who share this understanding, but we also know that it is as much an illusion as anything else.Its all an illusion, except that which you believe in, which is delusion." Un-quote

Perhaps is understanding on meaning of words ...you have your understanding on " awakening" and I had mine .....

To me I am currently using the words " Enlighterned" for a condition of acceptance , a condition without any choice to choose , a condition without any doubt .....awakening is being AWAKE to aware what am I , what is the purpose of my existance , what is me and the end of me. Awakening is  realization on the purpose of our existant , the purpose of our life .....Awakening is NOT illusion by any way .Living life without self exploration , with faith , with desire to defend ownself , with embition to have a great future in life , with desire to have "good" health , wealthy life IS Illusion ......awakening is knowing the purpose of life .

Thks

CSEe

"
.........

"
.........

I dont have to understand awakening.  I only have to recall the experience of being  *nothingness*. 

From that I have understanding of awakening, as do others whom I know and have talked about it.

If Ive got it wrong, then theyve got it wrong too, because we are on the same page with It, right or wrong.  We dont really care if we are right or wrong.  Its what we have.

"
.........

Still dreaming, remembering an experience. You stopped caring, that's why you got stuck. Until you get hit with a stick, and then you get pissed off. "Hey, stop that! I don't want to know that I'm wrong, so shut up and leave me to my dream of being awakened!"
"
.........

"
.........

Still dreaming, remembering an experience. You stopped caring, that's why you got stuck. Until you get hit with a stick, and then you get pissed off. "Hey, stop that! I don't want to know that I'm wrong, so shut up and leave me to my dream of being awakened!"
"
.........

Yeah, youre right, esoteric, and all the awakened people are wrong.

At the parade ground, on graduation day from boot camp, a mother was heard to say, *Oh look, everyone of those boys is out of step except my Johnny !!*

esoteric, your mother must be very proud !!

"
.........

I don't know anything about being "awakened" except for hearing the alarm in the morning and paying attention until I go to sleep and hear the alarm again.

I also don't know any "awakened people." But I do know people who think they're special for some reason, because of some special feeling, experience, memory, or idea they have. But in that sense, "awakened" usually just means "separated, different, and isolated."

That has nothing to do with any of the wisdom or insights in Buddhism or Zen. And for good reason.
"
.........

"
.........

I don't know anything about being "awakened" except for hearing the alarm in the morning and paying attention until I go to sleep and hear the alarm again.

I also don't know any "awakened people." But I do know people who think they're special for some reason, because of some special feeling, experience, memory, or idea they have. But in that sense, "awakened" usually just means "separated, different, and isolated."

That has nothing to do with any of the wisdom or insights in Buddhism or Zen. And for good reason.
"
.........

I know you dont know anything about being awakened, because you have accused *awakened people* of thinking they are *special*, when really they are *separated, different, and isolated*.

Thats okay.  Its reflective of where you are on your path.  And if you dont know your ass from a hole in the ground, then you cant be expected to know much about either asses or holes in the ground.

You shouldnt be so judgemental about people that you admittedly know nothing about.  We dont think we are special.  We dont think we are important.  Its arguable to say we even exist.  The one thing we all seem to have in common is a great love for that which is the *nothingness*, the indefinable, the abstact One, to the extent that any of us that I know would readily give our lives, or even our existence, for It without question.

One old Zen Master put it as, *There are those who serve, and there are fools*. 

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Reply from floating_a
Oct.06.2012
10:58AM EDT 
vertical line Quote:
.........

I know you dont know anything about being awakened, because you have accused *awakened people* of thinking they are *special*, when really they are *separated, different, and isolated*.

Thats okay.  Its reflective of where you are on your path.  And if you dont know your ass from a hole in the ground, then you cant be expected to know much about either asses or holes in the ground.

You shouldnt be so judgemental about people that you admittedly know nothing about.  We dont think we are special.  We dont think we are important.  Its arguable to say we even exist.  The one thing we all seem to have in common is a great love for that which is the *nothingness*, the indefinable, the abstact One, to the extent that any of us that I know would readily give our lives, or even our existence, for It without question.

One old Zen Master put it as, *There are those who serve, and there are fools*. 

"
.........

Hi Starduster/Don

I would reiterate that your style and sentiments really do not seem like that of so called awakened Zen Masters...at all.

Also, this is a forum so people are free to challenge what you may claim.

For example, what is so separate about yourself?

You also say

"
The one thing we all seem to have in common is a great love for that which is the *nothingness*, the indefinable, the abstact One, to the extent that any of us that I know would readily give our lives, or even our existence, for It without question."

- Whereas I have never seen any Zen master, dead or alive, or both every say and purport such a thing.

So to group yourself with whoever it is you are grouping yourself with and then making a representation on behalf of this imagined group, seems to be a bit of a far stretch does it not? As to the so-called nothingness, why would you even need to die for it? In what way do you mean. In Buddha Dharma you do not need to die for the Buddha/Dharmakaya, but service yes is probably in stock.


In previous discussions you have also said you don't care what happens to the world, or other people. I admire your honesty but I also believe that this is also the antithesis of Zen or Buddhism or whatever you may want to call it. But I don't believe that this is Zen or Buddhist at all. I am sure there is some school of thinking out there that agrees with you though.

Perhaps you would like to address the points directly, rather than the person this time. If I have misunderstood you, I apologise and I would like to see your clarifications.

Best wishes,
Abu

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Reply from floating_a
Oct.06.2012
11:06AM EDT 
vertical line The above sentence should read:

Whereas I have never seen any Zen master, dead or alive, or both - ever say and purport such a thing.
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Reply from starduster
Oct.06.2012
11:19AM EDT 
vertical line Quote: "Quote:
.........

I know you dont know anything about being awakened, because you have accused *awakened people* of thinking they are *special*, when really they are *separated, different, and isolated*.

Thats okay.  Its reflective of where you are on your path.  And if you dont know your ass from a hole in the ground, then you cant be expected to know much about either asses or holes in the ground.

You shouldnt be so judgemental about people that you admittedly know nothing about.  We dont think we are special.  We dont think we are important.  Its arguable to say we even exist.  The one thing we all seem to have in common is a great love for that which is the *nothingness*, the indefinable, the abstact One, to the extent that any of us that I know would readily give our lives, or even our existence, for It without question.

One old Zen Master put it as, *There are those who serve, and there are fools*. 

"
.........

Hi Starduster/Don

I would reiterate that your style and sentiments really do not seem like that of so called awakened Zen Masters...at all.

Also, this is a forum so people are free to challenge what you may claim.

For example, what is so separate about yourself?

You also say

"
The one thing we all seem to have in common is a great love for that which is the *nothingness*, the indefinable, the abstact One, to the extent that any of us that I know would readily give our lives, or even our existence, for It without question."

- Whereas I have never seen any Zen master, dead or alive, or both every say and purport such a thing.

So to group yourself with whoever it is you are grouping yourself with and then making a representation on behalf of this imagined group, seems to be a bit of a far stretch does it not? As to the so-called nothingness, why would you even need to die for it? In what way do you mean. In Buddha Dharma you do not need to die for the Buddha/Dharmakaya, but service yes is probably in stock.


In previous discussions you have also said you don't care what happens to the world, or other people. I admire your honesty but I also believe that this is also the antithesis of Zen or Buddhism or whatever you may want to call it. But I don't believe that this is Zen or Buddhist at all. I am sure there is some school of thinking out there that agrees with you though.

Perhaps you would like to address the points directly, rather than the person this time. If I have misunderstood you, I apologise and I would like to see your clarifications.

Best wishes,
Abu

"
.........

Good point.  I dont know any awakened Zen Masters, or at least none that I know of.  Im not a Buddhist, and would not claim to be a Zen Master either.  I would say Im a pratyeka buddha, but that is not necessarily in any classification, per se.  Thats just someone who became awakened without a teacher.

Lets see, one of the people to whom I refer is myself, from Transcendental Meditation:  another is Christian;  and a couple more are Hindu. 

Another point that would be well taken from you, inferentially, would be that in the Hindu texts Ive seen, not everyone who becomes awakened experiences Oneness as a personage.  Only some do.  So my reference would be to those who also have experienced themSelf as a Self, and how they feel about this One Self after having experienced it and returning to their normal consciousness.

I dont recall who said the thing about serving or being a fool.  Its from something I read long ago and regrettably do not recall the source.

I did not say there was anything separate about me, or even could be, that was part of the accusation of esoteric about so called awakened people being special, etc.  I would say again, we dont think we are special, we know we are not.

Others may think being awakened is special, because they expect to be when they attain it.  To them I would say, good luck with that.


.........

I know you dont know anything about being awakened, because you have accused *awakened people* of thinking they are *special*, when really they are *separated, different, and isolated*.

Thats okay.  Its reflective of where you are on your path.  And if you dont know your ass from a hole in the ground, then you cant be expected to know much about either asses or holes in the ground.

You shouldnt be so judgemental about people that you admittedly know nothing about.  We dont think we are special.  We dont think we are important.  Its arguable to say we even exist.  The one thing we all seem to have in common is a great love for that which is the *nothingness*, the indefinable, the abstact One, to the extent that any of us that I know would readily give our lives, or even our existence, for It without question.

One old Zen Master put it as, *There are those who serve, and there are fools*. 

"
.........

Hi Starduster/Don

I would reiterate that your style and sentiments really do not seem like that of so called awakened Zen Masters...at all.

Also, this is a forum so people are free to challenge what you may claim.

For example, what is so separate about yourself?

You also say

"
The one thing we all seem to have in common is a great love for that which is the *nothingness*, the indefinable, the abstact One, to the extent that any of us that I know would readily give our lives, or even our existence, for It without question."

- Whereas I have never seen any Zen master, dead or alive, or both every say and purport such a thing.

So to group yourself with whoever it is you are grouping yourself with and then making a representation on behalf of this imagined group, seems to be a bit of a far stretch does it not? As to the so-called nothingness, why would you even need to die for it? In what way do you mean. In Buddha Dharma you do not need to die for the Buddha/Dharmakaya, but service yes is probably in stock.


In previous discussions you have also said you don't care what happens to the world, or other people. I admire your honesty but I also believe that this is also the antithesis of Zen or Buddhism or whatever you may want to call it. But I don't believe that this is Zen or Buddhist at all. I am sure there is some school of thinking out there that agrees with you though.

Perhaps you would like to address the points directly, rather than the person this time. If I have misunderstood you, I apologise and I would like to see your clarifications.

Best wishes,
Abu

"
.........

Good point.  I dont know any awakened Zen Masters, or at least none that I know of.  Im not a Buddhist, and would not claim to be a Zen Master either.  I would say Im a pratyeka buddha, but that is not necessarily in any classification, per se.  Thats just someone who became awakened without a teacher.

Lets see, one of the people to whom I refer is myself, from Transcendental Meditation:  another is Christian;  and a couple more are Hindu. 

Another point that would be well taken from you, inferentially, would be that in the Hindu texts Ive seen, not everyone who becomes awakened experiences Oneness as a personage.  Only some do.  So my reference would be to those who also have experienced themSelf as a Self, and how they feel about this One Self after having experienced it and returning to their normal consciousness.

I dont recall who said the thing about serving or being a fool.  Its from something I read long ago and regrettably do not recall the source.

I did not say there was anything separate about me, or even could be, that was part of the accusation of esoteric about so called awakened people being special, etc.  I would say again, we dont think we are special, we know we are not.

Others may think being awakened is special, because they expect to be when they attain it.  To them I would say, good luck with that.


.........

I know you dont know anything about being awakened, because you have accused *awakened people* of thinking they are *special*, when really they are *separated, different, and isolated*.

Thats okay.  Its reflective of where you are on your path.  And if you dont know your ass from a hole in the ground, then you cant be expected to know much about either asses or holes in the ground.

You shouldnt be so judgemental about people that you admittedly know nothing about.  We dont think we are special.  We dont think we are important.  Its arguable to say we even exist.  The one thing we all seem to have in common is a great love for that which is the *nothingness*, the indefinable, the abstact One, to the extent that any of us that I know would readily give our lives, or even our existence, for It without question.

One old Zen Master put it as, *There are those who serve, and there are fools*. 

"
.........

Hi Starduster/Don

I would reiterate that your style and sentiments really do not seem like that of so called awakened Zen Masters...at all.

Also, this is a forum so people are free to challenge what you may claim.

For example, what is so separate about yourself?

You also say

"
The one thing we all seem to have in common is a great love for that which is the *nothingness*, the indefinable, the abstact One, to the extent that any of us that I know would readily give our lives, or even our existence, for It without question."

- Whereas I have never seen any Zen master, dead or alive, or both every say and purport such a thing.

So to group yourself with whoever it is you are grouping yourself with and then making a representation on behalf of this imagined group, seems to be a bit of a far stretch does it not? As to the so-called nothingness, why would you even need to die for it? In what way do you mean. In Buddha Dharma you do not need to die for the Buddha/Dharmakaya, but service yes is probably in stock.


In previous discussions you have also said you don't care what happens to the world, or other people. I admire your honesty but I also believe that this is also the antithesis of Zen or Buddhism or whatever you may want to call it. But I don't believe that this is Zen or Buddhist at all. I am sure there is some school of thinking out there that agrees with you though.

Perhaps you would like to address the points directly, rather than the person this time. If I have misunderstood you, I apologise and I would like to see your clarifications.

Best wishes,
Abu

"
.........

Good point.  I dont know any awakened Zen Masters, or at least none that I know of.  Im not a Buddhist, and would not claim to be a Zen Master either.  I would say Im a pratyeka buddha, but that is not necessarily in any classification, per se.  Thats just someone who became awakened without a teacher.

Lets see, one of the people to whom I refer is myself, from Transcendental Meditation:  another is Christian;  and a couple more are Hindu. 

Another point that would be well taken from you, inferentially, would be that in the Hindu texts Ive seen, not everyone who becomes awakened experiences Oneness as a personage.  Only some do.  So my reference would be to those who also have experienced themSelf as a Self, and how they feel about this One Self after having experienced it and returning to their normal consciousness.

I dont recall who said the thing about serving or being a fool.  Its from something I read long ago and regrettably do not recall the source.

I did not say there was anything separate about me, or even could be, that was part of the accusation of esoteric about so called awakened people being special, etc.  I would say again, we dont think we are special, we know we are not.

Others may think being awakened is special, because they expect to be when they attain it.  To them I would say, good luck with that.


.........

I know you dont know anything about being awakened, because you have accused *awakened people* of thinking they are *special*, when really they are *separated, different, and isolated*.

Thats okay.  Its reflective of where you are on your path.  And if you dont know your ass from a hole in the ground, then you cant be expected to know much about either asses or holes in the ground.

You shouldnt be so judgemental about people that you admittedly know nothing about.  We dont think we are special.  We dont think we are important.  Its arguable to say we even exist.  The one thing we all seem to have in common is a great love for that which is the *nothingness*, the indefinable, the abstact One, to the extent that any of us that I know would readily give our lives, or even our existence, for It without question.

One old Zen Master put it as, *There are those who serve, and there are fools*. 

"
.........

Hi Starduster/Don

I would reiterate that your style and sentiments really do not seem like that of so called awakened Zen Masters...at all.

Also, this is a forum so people are free to challenge what you may claim.

For example, what is so separate about yourself?

You also say

"
The one thing we all seem to have in common is a great love for that which is the *nothingness*, the indefinable, the abstact One, to the extent that any of us that I know would readily give our lives, or even our existence, for It without question."

- Whereas I have never seen any Zen master, dead or alive, or both every say and purport such a thing.

So to group yourself with whoever it is you are grouping yourself with and then making a representation on behalf of this imagined group, seems to be a bit of a far stretch does it not? As to the so-called nothingness, why would you even need to die for it? In what way do you mean. In Buddha Dharma you do not need to die for the Buddha/Dharmakaya, but service yes is probably in stock.


In previous discussions you have also said you don't care what happens to the world, or other people. I admire your honesty but I also believe that this is also the antithesis of Zen or Buddhism or whatever you may want to call it. But I don't believe that this is Zen or Buddhist at all. I am sure there is some school of thinking out there that agrees with you though.

Perhaps you would like to address the points directly, rather than the person this time. If I have misunderstood you, I apologise and I would like to see your clarifications.

Best wishes,
Abu

"
.........

Good point.  I dont know any awakened Zen Masters, or at least none that I know of.  Im not a Buddhist, and would not claim to be a Zen Master either.  I would say Im a pratyeka buddha, but that is not necessarily in any classification, per se.  Thats just someone who became awakened without a teacher.

Lets see, one of the people to whom I refer is myself, from Transcendental Meditation:  another is Christian;  and a couple more are Hindu. 

Another point that would be well taken from you, inferentially, would be that in the Hindu texts Ive seen, not everyone who becomes awakened experiences Oneness as a personage.  Only some do.  So my reference would be to those who also have experienced themSelf as a Self, and how they feel about this One Self after having experienced it and returning to their normal consciousness.

I dont recall who said the thing about serving or being a fool.  Its from something I read long ago and regrettably do not recall the source.

I did not say there was anything separate about me, or even could be, that was part of the accusation of esoteric about so called awakened people being special, etc.  I would say again, we dont think we are special, we know we are not.

Others may think being awakened is special, because they expect to be when they attain it.  To them I would say, good luck with that.


.........

I know you dont know anything about being awakened, because you have accused *awakened people* of thinking they are *special*, when really they are *separated, different, and isolated*.

Thats okay.  Its reflective of where you are on your path.  And if you dont know your ass from a hole in the ground, then you cant be expected to know much about either asses or holes in the ground.

You shouldnt be so judgemental about people that you admittedly know nothing about.  We dont think we are special.  We dont think we are important.  Its arguable to say we even exist.  The one thing we all seem to have in common is a great love for that which is the *nothingness*, the indefinable, the abstact One, to the extent that any of us that I know would readily give our lives, or even our existence, for It without question.

One old Zen Master put it as, *There are those who serve, and there are fools*. 

"
.........

Hi Starduster/Don

I would reiterate that your style and sentiments really do not seem like that of so called awakened Zen Masters...at all.

Also, this is a forum so people are free to challenge what you may claim.

For example, what is so separate about yourself?

You also say

"
The one thing we all seem to have in common is a great love for that which is the *nothingness*, the indefinable, the abstact One, to the extent that any of us that I know would readily give our lives, or even our existence, for It without question."

- Whereas I have never seen any Zen master, dead or alive, or both every say and purport such a thing.

So to group yourself with whoever it is you are grouping yourself with and then making a representation on behalf of this imagined group, seems to be a bit of a far stretch does it not? As to the so-called nothingness, why would you even need to die for it? In what way do you mean. In Buddha Dharma you do not need to die for the Buddha/Dharmakaya, but service yes is probably in stock.


In previous discussions you have also said you don't care what happens to the world, or other people. I admire your honesty but I also believe that this is also the antithesis of Zen or Buddhism or whatever you may want to call it. But I don't believe that this is Zen or Buddhist at all. I am sure there is some school of thinking out there that agrees with you though.

Perhaps you would like to address the points directly, rather than the person this time. If I have misunderstood you, I apologise and I would like to see your clarifications.

Best wishes,
Abu

"
.........

Good point.  I dont know any awakened Zen Masters, or at least none that I know of.  Im not a Buddhist, and would not claim to be a Zen Master either.  I would say Im a pratyeka buddha, but that is not necessarily in any classification, per se.  Thats just someone who became awakened without a teacher.

Lets see, one of the people to whom I refer is myself, from Transcendental Meditation:  another is Christian;  and a couple more are Hindu. 

Another point that would be well taken from you, inferentially, would be that in the Hindu texts Ive seen, not everyone who becomes awakened experiences Oneness as a personage.  Only some do.  So my reference would be to those who also have experienced themSelf as a Self, and how they feel about this One Self after having experienced it and returning to their normal consciousness.

I dont recall who said the thing about serving or being a fool.  Its from something I read long ago and regrettably do not recall the source.

I did not say there was anything separate about me, or even could be, that was part of the accusation of esoteric about so called awakened people being special, etc.  I would say again, we dont think we are special, we know we are not.

Others may think being awakened is special, because they expect to be when they attain it.  To them I would say, good luck with that.

"
.........

Hi Starduster/Don

I would reiterate that your style and sentiments really do not seem like that of so called awakened Zen Masters...at all.

Also, this is a forum so people are free to challenge what you may claim.

For example, what is so separate about yourself?

You also say

"
The one thing we all seem to have in common is a great love for that which is the *nothingness*, the indefinable, the abstact One, to the extent that any of us that I know would readily give our lives, or even our existence, for It without question."

- Whereas I have never seen any Zen master, dead or alive, or both every say and purport such a thing.

So to group yourself with whoever it is you are grouping yourself with and then making a representation on behalf of this imagined group, seems to be a bit of a far stretch does it not? As to the so-called nothingness, why would you even need to die for it? In what way do you mean. In Buddha Dharma you do not need to die for the Buddha/Dharmakaya, but service yes is probably in stock.


In previous discussions you have also said you don't care what happens to the world, or other people. I admire your honesty but I also believe that this is also the antithesis of Zen or Buddhism or whatever you may want to call it. But I don't believe that this is Zen or Buddhist at all. I am sure there is some school of thinking out there that agrees with you though.

Perhaps you would like to address the points directly, rather than the person this time. If I have misunderstood you, I apologise and I would like to see your clarifications.

Best wishes,
Abu

"
.........

Good point.  I dont know any awakened Zen Masters, or at least none that I know of.  Im not a Buddhist, and would not claim to be a Zen Master either.  I would say Im a pratyeka buddha, but that is not necessarily in any classification, per se.  Thats just someone who became awakened without a teacher.

Lets see, one of the people to whom I refer is myself, from Transcendental Meditation:  another is Christian;  and a couple more are Hindu. 

Another point that would be well taken from you, inferentially, would be that in the Hindu texts Ive seen, not everyone who becomes awakened experiences Oneness as a personage.  Only some do.  So my reference would be to those who also have experienced themSelf as a Self, and how they feel about this One Self after having experienced it and returning to their normal consciousness.

I dont recall who said the thing about serving or being a fool.  Its from something I read long ago and regrettably do not recall the source.

I did not say there was anything separate about me, or even could be, that was part of the accusation of esoteric about so called awakened people being special, etc.  I would say again, we dont think we are special, we know we are not.

Others may think being awakened is special, because they expect to be when they attain it.  To them I would say, good luck with that.

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Reply from floating_a
Oct.06.2012
11:58AM EDT 
vertical line Dear starduster,

I have respect for your experiences but when I read you I just think that it is not anything akin to Buddhism - and in Buddhism there are deeply revelatory experiences and transformations that do and can occur with practice.

However there are also systems and standards and of all the great Masters I have met, compassion seems to me a core of their being.

Nothingness, oneness - all concepts of illusion which when seen through are not all that enarmoring in my own view. Or perhaps it can also be revealed more pointedly i our Heart Sutra: form is emptiness, emptiness is none other than form.

In my experience, the Buddhist practice, not the Buddhist religion per se, is a deeply profound one and there are many tips and guides for the practitioner who is genuinely dedicated to truth and perhaps even, love and care.

I am also pretty sure that many people here have had very deep or different experiences, which also includes daily life, but in Zen and in Buddhism I guess we do make personalities or stories out of them so much. And this is very important advice for any Buddhist practitioner.

I am not qualified to speak on your experiences, and so I respect your way, and how you view things.

Best wishes,
Abu
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Reply from floating_a
Oct.06.2012
12:03PM EDT 
vertical line  CORRECTION:

Quote: "Dear starduster,

I have respect for your experiences but when I read you I just think that it is not anything akin to Buddhism - and in Buddhism there are deeply revelatory experiences and transformations that do and can occur with practice.

However there are also systems and standards and of all the great Masters I have met, compassion seems to me a core of their being.

Nothingness, oneness - all concepts of illusion which when seen through are not all that enarmoring in my own view. Or perhaps it can also be revealed more pointedly in our Heart Sutra: form is emptiness, emptiness is none other than form.

In my experience, the Buddhist practice, not the Buddhist religion per se, is a deeply profound one and there are many tips and guides for the practitioner who is genuinely dedicated to truth and perhaps even, love and care.

I am also pretty sure that many people here have had very deep or different experiences, which also includes daily life, but in Zen and in Buddhism I guess we do NOT make personalities or stories out of them so much. And this is very important advice for any Buddhist practitioner.

I am not qualified to speak on your experiences, and so I respect your way, and how you view things.

Best wishes,
Abu
"
.........
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Reply from esoteric
Oct.06.2012
03:15PM EDT 
vertical line Quote: "Quote: "Quote: "Quote: "Quote: "Quote: "

Dear starduster , you said " Some ask how to know if you are awakened, or others are.Awakening leaves no doubt because there is nothing left to doubt, literally nothing.We call ourselves awakened, those of us who share this understanding, but we also know that it is as much an illusion as anything else.Its all an illusion, except that which you believe in, which is delusion." Un-quote

Perhaps is understanding on meaning of words ...you have your understanding on " awakening" and I had mine .....

To me I am currently using the words " Enlighterned" for a condition of acceptance , a condition without any choice to choose , a condition without any doubt .....awakening is being AWAKE to aware what am I , what is the purpose of my existance , what is me and the end of me. Awakening is  realization on the purpose of our existant , the purpose of our life .....Awakening is NOT illusion by any way .Living life without self exploration , with faith , with desire to defend ownself , with embition to have a great future in life , with desire to have "good" health , wealthy life IS Illusion ......awakening is knowing the purpose of life .

Thks

CSEe

"
.........

"
.........

I dont have to understand awakening.  I only have to recall the experience of being  *nothingness*. 

From that I have understanding of awakening, as do others whom I know and have talked about it.

If Ive got it wrong, then theyve got it wrong too, because we are on the same page with It, right or wrong.  We dont really care if we are right or wrong.  Its what we have.

"
.........

Still dreaming, remembering an experience. You stopped caring, that's why you got stuck. Until you get hit with a stick, and then you get pissed off. "Hey, stop that! I don't want to know that I'm wrong, so shut up and leave me to my dream of being awakened!"
"
.........

"
.........

Still dreaming, remembering an experience. You stopped caring, that's why you got stuck. Until you get hit with a stick, and then you get pissed off. "Hey, stop that! I don't want to know that I'm wrong, so shut up and leave me to my dream of being awakened!"
"
.........

Yeah, youre right, esoteric, and all the awakened people are wrong.

At the parade ground, on graduation day from boot camp, a mother was heard to say, *Oh look, everyone of those boys is out of step except my Johnny !!*

esoteric, your mother must be very proud !!

"
.........

I don't know anything about being "awakened" except for hearing the alarm in the morning and paying attention until I go to sleep and hear the alarm again.

I also don't know any "awakened people." But I do know people who think they're special for some reason, because of some special feeling, experience, memory, or idea they have. But in that sense, "awakened" usually just means "separated, different, and isolated."

That has nothing to do with any of the wisdom or insights in Buddhism or Zen. And for good reason.
"
.........

"
.........

I don't know anything about being "awakened" except for hearing the alarm in the morning and paying attention until I go to sleep and hear the alarm again.

I also don't know any "awakened people." But I do know people who think they're special for some reason, because of some special feeling, experience, memory, or idea they have. But in that sense, "awakened" usually just means "separated, different, and isolated."

That has nothing to do with any of the wisdom or insights in Buddhism or Zen. And for good reason.
"
.........

I know you dont know anything about being awakened, because you have accused *awakened people* of thinking they are *special*, when really they are *separated, different, and isolated*.

Thats okay.  Its reflective of where you are on your path.  And if you dont know your ass from a hole in the ground, then you cant be expected to know much about either asses or holes in the ground.

You shouldnt be so judgemental about people that you admittedly know nothing about.  We dont think we are special.  We dont think we are important.  Its arguable to say we even exist.  The one thing we all seem to have in common is a great love for that which is the *nothingness*, the indefinable, the abstact One, to the extent that any of us that I know would readily give our lives, or even our existence, for It without question.

One old Zen Master put it as, *There are those who serve, and there are fools*. 

"
.........

You say you love the One, but you encounter it every day with scorn and disdain. Whom do you serve?
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Reply from esoteric
Oct.06.2012
03:17PM EDT 
vertical line "I love God. It's people I don't like."
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Reply from Joe Chip
Oct.07.2012
07:16AM EDT 
vertical line The bells, the bells is this Wee Willy Winky who is coming.
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Reply from starduster
Oct.07.2012
09:30AM EDT 
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Quote: ""I love God. It's people I don't like." "
.........

You have no idea what Ive been talking about,

yet you are quick to judge, and presume to *help*.

Take the log out of your own eye,

before taking the splinter out of mine. (I think thats from the Bible.)

What am I talking about ?

I am the splinter.

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Reply from Joe Chip
Oct.07.2012
10:53AM EDT 
vertical line One
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Reply from esoteric
Oct.07.2012
11:20AM EDT 
vertical line Blow the whistle, Joe. It's time for a beer.
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Reply from esoteric
Oct.07.2012
12:10PM EDT 
vertical line Quote: "I have this little 'lol' that wells up in me sometimes. It bothers me. But it passes.
"
.........

That's so awesome :-)
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Reply from Joe Chip
Oct.07.2012
01:05PM EDT 
vertical line Oh yeah, atomic.
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Reply from so_teh
Oct.07.2012
05:30PM EDT 
Email so_teh
vertical line In the midst of a hardship and a laugh. Damn son.
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Reply from so_teh
Oct.07.2012
05:41PM EDT 
Email so_teh
vertical line I think about [your] hardship. But am unconcerned about your difficulty.
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Reply from Joe Chip
Oct.10.2012
07:41AM EDT 
vertical line Thanks. I hope you pass the audition.
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Reply from Hollow
Oct.13.2012
01:23AM EDT 
vertical line I see nothing much has changed.
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Reply from Joe Chip
Oct.13.2012
07:15AM EDT 
vertical line Eggoh, beanoh, chipoh - cease to change, cease to live - a zenguide guide to almost everything. Is you is or is you ain't?
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Reply from nibble
Oct.13.2012
07:51AM EDT 
vertical line In the background there was the muffled sound of shouting, someone's screams came to an end with the occasionally single shot followed by the standard short burst of machine gun fire and then there was silence again.
The gunslinger was tired, he hated the falangist cleanup crew, he looked over to Joe in the dim light but could not catch his eyes.  He did not need to see him to know that he was thinking the same as him about the cowardly bastards.
The gunslinger took another deep puff from the worn brown stoogie hanging limp less from the corner of his mouth, his eyes looked mildly curious at his friend as he scratched his unshaved chin with a blistering hand covered in dirt and dried blood, some of it his own.
"yeh know.." the gunslinger started, his eyes drifting slowly as if trying to focus, one hand slightly lifting the hat as he wiped off a thin sweat from the forehead  with the other. " this is messy business... I`m kinda here for.. I don`t know why I`m here anymore"
Joe looked up at him with a worried, slightly puzzled expression. In the background there was the muffled sound of an explosion.
"I mean, correcting this. Would it be so bad to let it just let it handle itself. Like, what if one intervened, and it should`a, we know that now, but one would never been sure if we did and.."
Joe looked up again from his galaxy note, eyes skewed at the gunslinger "Whtf are you rambling about now?? Pleeease,  I`m trying to write a post at zenguide here, are you like stone again or??"
The gunslinger looked mutt at Joe.
"Yeah, but.."
"I knew it! I friggin knew it!" Joe shook his head, eyes rolling as he turned his gaze irritated back at his galaxy note mumbling to himself and the gunslinger "goddamn I want a new room-partner or please someone kill me.."
As the gunslinger got up from the couch Joe looked up snapping "Oh, and for god sake turn that sht on the tv off unless you have a hard-on for middle east violence, ok?! And clean yourself up, disgusting." Then he turned his attention back to his Galaxy Note mumbling "whotfk is Bashir anyway"
"Ok, ok" The gunslinger responded as he reached for the remote. "You don`t have to be such a dikk about it, jiizez man"
(A fictional story, any resemblance to dead or alive gunslingers portrayed is purely accidental. And even thou the writer cannot rule out that it Might really be a deep zen story riddled with deep meanings, symbolism and wisdom to be used by zenmasters for generations to come, it can also not be ruled out that it just Might be a very stupid pointless story that has nothing at all to do with anything except the fact that sometimes)

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Reply from nibble
Oct.13.2012
07:53AM EDT 
vertical line (wrote this some time ago, but felt stupid to post it (or afraid some medicated posters might try to penetrate my mysteriouse gunslinger story:))
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Reply from nibble
Oct.13.2012
08:27AM EDT 
vertical line kewler link
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