A teacher said that when she first learned about zen, she read books and sat zazen, but until she got involved with a sangha, she was only fantasizing.

I am moving to North Carolina from New York and do not drive, so I will not have access to a sangha (except online) and will not have a teacher. I sit zazen twice a day for thirty minutes each session and I read Dogen. Dogen implies that sitting zazen alone is practice.

Does anyone have any comments about practicing alone?

Open clouds have limits.

Nothing like starry sky.

I dont know, I never had a teacher.  But I did read everything about metaphysics that I could find, and tried a number of different meditation practices, even chanting. 

Transcendental Meditation worked best for me, so I stuck with that.  Still do.

Many religions say that they are the only way.  I never did buy that.  All paths lead to the top of the mountain, so there are many choices available.

If someone is convinced of the efficacy of their method, system, or belief, it is good that it is working for them.  But if they want to insist that others follow their way, and their way only, that is not good.  That is hindrance.

So I would suggest to be open minded to trying many methods of meditation, until you find the one that works best for you.

Dont believe in paths.  Believe there is a mountain top, and you will reach it no matter what path you choose.

Buddhism is about ' Practicing alone" , in your own will , your own journey of your choice in your own world . Is your own process to free you from yourself that never involve any one else , you are always alone . Thats my current understanding.

Thks

CSEe

The lord Buddha continued:

"If any person were to say that the Buddha, in his teachings, has constantly referred to himself, to other selves, to living beings, or to a universal self, what do you think, would that person have understood my meaning?"

Subhuti replied, "No, blessed lord. That person would not have understood the meaning of your teachings. For when you refer to those things, you are not referring to their actual existence, you only use the words as figures of speech, as symbols. Only in that sense can words be used, for conceptions, ideas, limited truths, and spiritual truths have no more reality than have matter or phenomena."

Then the lord Buddha made his meaning even more emphatic by saying:

"Subhuti, when people begin their practice of seeking to attaining total Enlightenment, they ought to see, to perceive, to know, to understand, and to realize that all things and all spiritual truths are no-things, and, therefore, they ought not to conceive within their minds any arbitrary conceptions whatsoever."

If anyone says they are a Diamond Sutra master they havent understood the diamond sutra at all :)

Still is practicing alone provided you understand the purpose of debating .....is always your choice to accept or to choose .........

Thks

CSEe
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Quote: "Debate is not learning. Debate is arguing your point and repeating yourself until the other guy gives in.
If you want to learn then shut up and read the four noble truths and start a rigorous practice of Zazen with a teacher. No debate. Just follow instructions. No thinking, no fooling. Dogen said practice is the way. Bodhidharma said the way is by study and practice. Not one with out the other.
"
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That perhaps is your perception on debating........but as for me , I am fully aware of my intention of debating is always to challenge own opinion and by others opinion / respond I could explore further into my common sense and move into greater understanding ...NEVER have any tiny intention to defend or to  influence others into my thought . I always seek for dis-agreement by others NEVER agreement as I could learn more by dis-agreement . Dear Avisitor , perhaps you are same as hundreds of "teacher" that communicated with me ...just want me to follow you but never interest to debate . Dear Sir , I am sincere to learn even I could be a monk if I could find any common sense of it ..........why until now I cant find any single ' teacher" that willing to debate with me ? Be fair to me.

Thks

CSEe 

Dear Avisitor . you said ...I quote " You don't challenge your own opinion. You keep restating it. You keep repeating your beliefs. You have the choice to stop what you're doing now and go learn the truth of your very nature. Or, you can keep conceptualizing and never know more than the idea of what Buddhism is really about. Experience ... not thoughts. Actions ... not regurgitating your own ideas again and again.

There is nothing left for you but to buy you plot of land where you will rest forever ...." un-quote

Why cant you understand in every discussion whether to share views or to reply others posting , I explore myself . Find it in my self , question my understanding ...thats challenging........Dear Avisitor that is why I always said " in my current understanding"..........you are asking me to follow others without question it .....asking me to give up myself for no reason ......thats funny my friend .So tell me what is your perception of Buddhism ........................I am very sure you have your " faith" on your understanding of Buddhism so why are you avoiding to share with me , debate on it ? I never attached to any of my understanding or have any faith in anything ...even myself . Dear friend , again lets debate .............

Thks

CSEe 

Dear Avisitor , you said " Buddhism is about practice and experiencing the truth for yourself."Un-quote .

Practice ? what kind ? Living the life is the form of practice in Buddhism ...meditation etc is just a tiny little part of it .........What is  Truth dear Avisitor ? How can you know is truth ? By knowledge ? .......in my current opinion ,there is NO truth or FALSE in Buddhism as Buddhism being the process to free the polluted energy is the ONLY truth .......understanding the concept of Buddhism without any attachment on emotions ..with continue exploration to further understanding , accepting all being  is a source of learning to understand own self is Buddhism and in my current understanding is the ONLY TRUTH.

Yo u said "No amount of intellectualizing will ever bring about the awakening you seek." un-quote

Yes agreed as knowledge is just a tiny part of it ...Buddhism is all about own will , own journey .

You said " No amount of knowledge will ever bring the freedom from yourself that you desire." un-quote .

In my current understanding of Buddhism , Freedom from self is NOT out of a desire or emotions but is resulted from SELF ACCEPTANCE by OWN REALIZATION.

You said "If or when you have practiced enough to have space for the truth then learning about Buddhism will flow naturally." un-quote

In my current understanding ,Buddhism is NOT created by advance knowledge or practice , even Dalai Lama whom said to be " The holiness" to my understanding in Buddhism is of SAME and EQUAL with any human ....OSAMA or OBAMA . Truth in Buddhism is NOT something we could search or have or accept....truth is THE PROCESS to free from polluted energy ...TRUTH is Buddhism .

You said "Understanding Buddhism will come from the experience you have during practice." un-quote

I currently cant find any common sense to agree with you on this perhaps not now . Understanding Buddhism to me is very easy as Mr Siddharta had introduced to mankind thousand of years ago.....his two words is more than enough to explain Buddhism ...that is " AWAKE and EMPTINESS "  Practice in Buddhism is living in every day life by BEING AWAKE in each moment in life...thats the practice I currently know in Buddhism .

You said " That is it. Without practice, understanding Buddhism is like trying to describe how water taste. You can not do it unless the other person has tasted it also. There is no more to Buddhism. Conceptualizing will never bring you to know the taste of water.
Go drink for yourself." Un-quote .

Yes but Buddhism to me is BEYOND taste the water...is why you have the desire to taste the water ...Buddhism is learning all emotions , desire NOT just experienced it but understand the cause of it ....leading to freedom of it .

You said "

I do not ask you to follow me. I do not ask you to learn from me. All I ask is that you stop regurgitating your non-sense. It does no one any good to hear what has already been spoken a hundred times before.Un-quote .

You always is my teacher Avisitor .........in Buddhism is NOT to pure water into others cup but to understand why you need to pure ...........I will NEVER be that confident to teach anyone including a baby regards to Buddhism ....Sorry if I make you boring but sincerely you makes my day by your interest in chat with me ....if can why cant we debate .....on your understanding against mine .

Thks

CSEe

Quote: "There is no more.
You have all that I know.
It can take you a lifetime to understand or it can be but an instant.

I have work to do and no more time to waste.
"
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Same here my friend , I have bills to pay lots of it ........but to me understanding Buddhism is major part of life compare to finding money . Understanding Buddhism will lead to understanding life , self , the purpose of life , what is self and the end of our existant .............is that more important than finding money to fill our desire ?

I am very eager to debate Buddhism becouse I realize that by understand more on Buddhism , one could be less attached to fear , fear on sickness or death ....if I could be free of it ...I could share it with my daughter and that will be the best present from a father ....right now I even fear to go and see a doctor becouse I am still full of polluted energy .............you are always welcome to discuss with me Avisitor any time whenever we free .

Thks

CSEe

Koans are designed to wear down the logical mind.

Debating the intangible probably has the same affect.

The intellect is like ice on the pond, nothing can surface until it is melted.

Dear Avisitor thanks for reply again , you said " You can never have any realization by debate.' Un-quote.

Yes agreed , self realization can never be planned , learned or practice . Self realization is reflection of all the expreciences , knowledge , awareness , emotions , internal , external factor that so effective to push one mind beyond it's acceptance . Knowledge alone cannot be the cause but perhaps can be a factor .......there was a story of a king named Asoka who was always in war ....one day he realized war had caused so many death and his self realization had lead him to major changes ....so before the factor he knew that in war there will be so many death but still he going for war but there was a factor that pushed him above his normal acceptance that lead him to his self realization  ...... 

You said " You are born with a mind full of preconditions that will not let go its grip.
Unless you practice meditation, you can never provide the conditions for you to find the freedom that you wish for.
There is no need for further discussion." Un-quote

Dear Avisitor ......you seems so close to me right now , we just like family ........you understand me since birth ?

Meditation in my current understanding is one of the trillions ways to self discovery ......and in my opinion there are many ways of meditation . One can meditate while walking , driving , sitting under a tree or on top of a tree or even sitting on a toilet bowl ........but in my current understanding before meditate one should free himself from knowledge of ' who they are " , free from any faith , free of believing on himself , accepting all being is of same and equal....therefore only with that level of freedom one could discover " what he is" instead of imagine who should he be .......

You said " Go share the rest of your life with your family and friends.
They are all you have left in this world." Un-quote

That is something I wish to free of not to further attached . Love is suffering my friend ...In buddhism they are never connected or related to me ...they just a being in their own purification process just like you or any human , any living or non-living ........in Buddhism I NEVER have them ,never owned them , even my body is never mind ...the desire to own them , the love for them is part of the polluted energy ......in Buddhism I will free of all desire including the desire to exist.........

and there is no " this world".....is only " own world"...

Thks CSEe

Quote: "Wrong."
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So what is the diiference to " right" ?

thks

CSEe

Quote: "You're the difference. "
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I have seen many short word as " &apos" ..what is that means ?

Thks

CSEe

Quote: "Yeah, that's exactly like the kind of thing it means."
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Please explain Joe , I cant understand the sign.

Thks

CSEe

Thats why I dont use apostrophes, and for quotes use * instead.

try acoustic...

www.youtube.com/watch?feature=endscreen&NR=1&v=1Dr6uTA-QKg

Quote: "Quote: "Quote: "Quote: "I've got to say, I agree with the idea of debating as a way to further ones knowledge. Though there is a fine line between debating for the sake of learning, and debating for the sake of being, "right."

After all, there are many paths leading to the peak. Just because you cannot see past the thick brush doesn't mean it won't also lead to the same peak."
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What peak?
"
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Any peak."
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Peak of what?

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Your own peak.  You havent seen it yet so you cant relate.

Its a stupid mind game to make people qualify everything they say.

Like *spoon banging*.  Children in high chairs bang their spoons as one of their first causitive events.  Theyve found out they can *make* a noise.  Then when adults get irritated thats even more causitive, so they bang their spoons even louder.

Maybe a short detour into a study of psychology might help, thumb sucker.  Go sit at the childrens table. 

Quote: "There is only one path. Watch your step"
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Wrong.

Quote: "Quote: "Quote: "Quote: "Quote: "I've got to say, I agree with the idea of debating as a way to further ones knowledge. Though there is a fine line between debating for the sake of learning, and debating for the sake of being, "right."

After all, there are many paths leading to the peak. Just because you cannot see past the thick brush doesn't mean it won't also lead to the same peak."
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What peak?
"
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Any peak."
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Peak of what?
"
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Personally, for me it's the peak of mindfulness. I suppose it's different for everybody."
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Only one path to that peak, too. Watch your step.
"
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Right.

Quote: "Quote: "Quote: "Quote: "Quote: "Quote: "I've got to say, I agree with the idea of debating as a way to further ones knowledge. Though there is a fine line between debating for the sake of learning, and debating for the sake of being, "right."

After all, there are many paths leading to the peak. Just because you cannot see past the thick brush doesn't mean it won't also lead to the same peak."
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Or the bush can hide a precipice.
Thanks for the words of encouragement.
I don't believe anyone here is debating to just be right.
But, each person speaks from where they are in their practice or path.
Right or wrong, it is where we are ... hahaha
"
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Haha, very well put. But that's why you take your chosen path as vigilantly as possible and always been open to take other paths. I sure wouldn't want to run head first over a cliff. xD


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There is only one path. Watch your step.
"
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What is the only path?"
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Are your eyes open?
"
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Must be Christianity, since Jesus said he was the Truth, the light, and the way, and that no one could get to the kingdom of Heaven without him.  Why then would anyone believe that any other path could lead to righteousness ??

I left the Christian Church at 14, in 1968, and didnt become awakened until 1990, after changing paths I dont know how many times along the way.  Then I could see that they are all good paths, including Christianity.

There is only one path, one true path, for you, and that is whichever you choose.  You just have to trust your own inner Self to get you where you are going, which is what You, your Self, decided in the first place.

Quote:   Path to what?

Kensho, satori, awakening, and enlightenment cannot be self-diagnosed. If someone tells you they have attained these things, then they havent.
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Dont you think you should wait until you have attained something before you tell other people what to think about these things ?

Or are you saying that you have, in which case how does this square with your own advice ? 

So, by your own statement, youre eithe talking out of your ass about things you dont understand, or you are self-diagnosing your own enlightenment.  Which is it ?

Awakening is not a matter of pride.  Its not an achievement, which is why the term *attainment* is commonly used.

Some say it is a gift, or a blessing.  If so, can you give a gift to yourself ?  I suppose so, in a manner of speaking, although not technically.

Self-diagnosis ?  Doesnt much matter.  Awakening leaves no doubt because there is nothing left to doubt, absolutely nothing.  And whether anyone else believes you are awakened or not is relatively meaningless, except perhaps to them.

"
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Awakening just means "not asleep any more." It's nothing special. It happens to most people in the world every day.

"
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